surely just a matter of days now, hopefully things will gather pace now, cant wait to hear what they have to say then :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilT
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surely just a matter of days now, hopefully things will gather pace now, cant wait to hear what they have to say then :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilT
Mikey is clearly a Yam then....Quote:
Originally Posted by theonlywayisup
Haha
Most important one is the one that started this thread. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by theonlywayisup
The accounts definitely haven't been submitted to Companies House yet. Nor have the 'new shares' been issued and the AGM won't take place before 11th May.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
None of my clients have ever been stupid enough or crooked enough to get themselves in that position, but I believe a striking off proposal remains in force until the issue that caused it (in this case probably non-submission of accounts) has been remedied. If an objection is raised striking off is just postponed until such time as the matter has been resolved one way or the other, but the proposal itself is not removed because of an objection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
I think the striking off proposal in January referred to one of the other HOMFC Companies. There is HOMFC 2005 and HOMFC as well as HOMFC PLC which is the actual football club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
Sorry I can't look them up as I am abroad where the internet is like treacle. I've not seen the the strike-off notice for real football company in the Edin. Gazette yet but I think the note appeared against the Yams on Companies House page on the last week in March.
Here's the notice in the Edinburgh Gazette
http://www.edinburgh-gazette.co.uk/i...upplements/121
it says
Hearts are then listed asQuote:
COMPANIES ACT 2006
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, PURSUANT TO SECTION 1000(3) OF THE COMPANIES ACT 2006, THAT AT THE END OF THREE MONTHS FROM THE DATE OF THE PUBLICATION OF THIS NOTICE, THE NAMES OF THE COMPANIES LISTED BELOW WILL, UNLESS CAUSE IS SHOWN TO THE CONTRARY, BE STRUCK OFF THE REGISTER AND THE COMPANIES WILL BE DISSOLVED.
Is that any help? I'm not clued up as some, I'm just passing the info on.Quote:
HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED SC123225
EDIT: looks like Green Ginger is right, that's a subsidiary. The football clubs company number is SC005863
Some of us would have had a few more had some admin prick not lost them all. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by cocopops1875
I have a friend in property, not a football fan, no bias whatsoever, and they just told me that a major commercial property consultant was asked to go and value Tynecastle for potential housing development 6 weeks ago
This is someone that wouldn't make things up or even have the motivation for doing so
:greengrin
Excellent work :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
I like your friend. Sounds like a very nice person :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
:faf: :faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
I think there's certainly a demand for affordable city centre housing and such a development could give the down-at-heel Gorgie area a much needed boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hackett
Alternatively there's a basement apartment in Ekaterinburg where Romanovs-fallen-on-hard-times are always welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
So that confirms that it appeared on 25th January. If it is Hearts the football club, rather than one of the offshoots, would this be enough to trigger the 18 point penalty?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
It would be enough to trigger soiled undergarments down Gorgie way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
SC005863 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN PLC
SC123225 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN FOOTBALL CLUB LIMITED
SC123898 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN PUBLISHING LIMITED
SC291956 HEART OF MIDLOTHIAN 2005 LIMITED
SP2597RS HEART OF MIDLOTHIA SUPPORTERS SOCIETY LIMITED
Here is the list of Heart of Midlothian companies at Companies House. Both the top two seem to have strike off proposals against them.
As mentioned later, it is the Subsidiary. Hearts the football club do have one as well but that doesn't seem to have been published?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
No. Its not an insolvency event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
It is company no. SC005863 that is the football club. The other companies are separate companies rather than subsideries but have dormant and allowed to expire.
I reckon it has been a maximum of 4 weeks since the strike-off notice appeared.
As greenginger says the PLC is the football club. The striking off proposal probably relates to non-submission of accounts which were due on 31 December 2012. Companies House would normally give at least six weeks before starting the striking off procedure and another three awaiting a response from the company - that takes us to the beginning/middle of March, so greenginger's four weeks looks about right. It's possible that the notice hasn't actually been advertised yet - did anyone actually see it in the Gazette?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
The next two were incoporated in 1990 and are dormant. Their accounts aren't late yet, but the Annual Returns are more than a year overdue which is no doubt the reason for the proposal to strike off. FC's was advertised on 25 January and Publishing's was on 1 February.
HOM 2005 Ltd was intended to be the holding company for the football club but 'Mr Romanov' changed his mind and moved the shares to UBIG. The accounts for 2011 were due on 30 April 2012 and the Gazette notice was published on 16 November 2012. I assume there must have been an objection or it would have been struck off by now.
The supporters society is a mutual/friendly company governed by the FSA rather than Companies House and is almost certainly completely independent of the others.
Any chance of this replacing Hector in the avatar pics?Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
More importantly, have they been paid this month?
Nothing has been reported to suggest otherwise so yes they probably have been paid. There is no reason why they shouldn't be getting paid for the next few months at least. Their season tickets went on sale last month and they've sold about 5000 so far apparently, which probably works out at around £1m.Quote:
Originally Posted by CentreLine
All of their troubles started showing when they couldn't pay the players but its at a much more advanced stage now. Players wages is the least of their problems.
As I like to see an Edinburgh team doing well, I'm posting this because it hurts me -though only slightly- to see Hearts playing second best to Rangers in the financial incompetence and corruption stakes. On this sort of form, any other season they would expect to be easy winners, but in Green, Whyte etc, Rangers have shown the ability to pull financial Albert Kidd's out of the hat almost at will.
C'mon Vlad and the gang, up your game. I still believe.
http://www.lithuaniatribune.com/3481...ase-201334819/
Whilst its obvious that Romanov is clearly very dodgy, its good to see that not only will his business empire be dead but he could well be doing time!!! Fingers crossed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Blood
I like the line,
" The process is not going to be short "
Exibit A for the prosecution, The Yams ! :greengrin
I don't think that there's any doubt that working capital was subsidised by UKIO, and added to their debt, whilst large sums of money (Gordon transfer fee?) exited by the back door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Blood
The will need legal assistance, and full access to HoMFC accounts, to be able to prove this .. and that isn't going to happen overnight.
I dinnae like that line.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Prefer words like swift, rapid, demise, certainty.
The ongoing process has probably the biggest potential to wreck Hearts for good. If assets are frozen during an investigation that lasts for years and the club can't be financed by the existing owners, or sold off to new ones, then we have a potential Third Lanark situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
The problem with selling to new owners is the lack of accounts. To date, the £22M figure that's being banded about as their current debt level could be miles off the mark, as that figure is almost 20 months old and the existing debt level could be far greater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
No accounts = No AGM. No sign of those pesky share certificates yet either.
#allisbarry assured them that the certificates would be sent out in March...then corrected himself to say that they would be sent out prior to their AGM in April. Someone's telling porkies.
Someone's telling him porkies and he's passing them on without questioning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
And that someone will be David Southern.
It's quite amazing how many different problems they have just now, I really can't see how it is possible for them to survive in their current state. The only option they have is FOH and that concept is never going to work for hearts. Plus its not even possible for anyone to take over while Romanov's assets are frozen. All of this plus the security issue with their decrepit old stadium that is long overdue a makeover even if they were to somehow hold on to it. Take a look on brokeback though and there's no mention of any problems. Their heads are so far underground that they will be making an appearance in Australia shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
Barry Anderson is basically the spokesperson for hearts, he reports whatever lies they tell him to. Quite annoying how his ugly ginger puss keeps popping up on my twitter every so often when someone has retweeted another one of his/hearts lies.
That is true, Sergey, but a much bigger problem is the fact that nothing can be sold at the moment. The longer that goes on, the less chance there is of any way out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergey
:thumbsup:The momentum towards the black hole continues !!!
taken from the BBC gossip section this morning,5th report down
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22276616
Quote:
Originally Posted by weonlywon6-2
"Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov may be charged with embezzlement in Lithuania,
which could result in a seven-year jail sentence. (Daily Express)"
Ian Murray MP to front their takeover bid for fan ownership. A politician who once managed a pub.
As if they were not already up against it.
From the same page:Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
"Edinburgh South MP Ian Murray is being lined up as the independent chairman of an umbrella body of Hearts supporters looking to take over the club. (Various)"
They can't take over anything just now whilst assets are frozen
It certainly hasn't worked for the English team that wend down that route (Fleetwood I think) as they are staring administration in the face after their fans input dropped to around £1000 a month.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangermouse
It will never work with hearts because of the huge amount of problems they have. Huge debt, crumbling stadium etc etc. The FOH solution to this is to get people to go on their website and 'pledge' up to £100 a month. This seems to be central to everything they hope to acheive and I know a lot of people on here have made pledges, I've made about 10 myself :greengrin. They don't have enough money up front to get anything going or they would of done so a long time ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
This Ian Murray MP certainly has the credentials.
http://www.ianmurraymp.co.uk/biography.html
Quote:
Ian's interest in wildlife and conservation includes a longstanding support for Care for the Wild and it's polar bear research programme.
I take it the shares still haven't been registered with Companies House?
Is it not Ebbsfleet? They are trying to be sold now having been relegated from the Blue Square this season. The novelty of "owning" a football club soon wore off.Quote:
Originally Posted by dangermouse
No, they haven't. I'm not sure they can issue them now since doing so would theoretically be diluting UBIG's assets - a form of gratuitous alienation.Quote:
Originally Posted by green glory
In any case if they're waiting till after the AGM it'll be the second half of May at the earliest before they appear now.
Barry Anderson @BarryAnderson_8 47m
#Hearts free to sign new players: #SPL confirm all signing restrictions on #HMFC will be lifted at the end of the season. See Evening News.
#allisbarry
Surely there are a few caveats tied to this announcement e.g continue to pay players, post accounts to SFA and others, dont get liquidated etc. Wonder if there is a comment from SPL anywhere in his exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
How is this news??? It was stated in December (and again in January) that the signing ban was only until the end of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
It should have read ..
"SPL confirm the confirmation from January, for those with a poor memory, that the signing ban imposed 4 months ago was just till the end of the season. And to clarify, for those of a lower IQ, the completion of the signing ban does indeed mean that they will be able to sign players once the ban has been completed"
Who are we in for now then? Cause it's back to them offering double the wages and then going "aw naw actually we huvnae got it" when it's pay day. :grr:Quote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Any news on the Council Tax debt?
Think they were given time to pay...which sums these tinkers upQuote:
Originally Posted by itslegaltender
Some roaster on brokeback was suggesting that they should get Islam Feruz on loan fae Chelski.....:agree: Honest!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawr.rar
:faf:
What level of delusion could come up with that?
Vote him out next election he's letting down his constitutents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay
Thats just yer average yam delusion.:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by RossHibs
Islam Feruz said "I was attracted to hearts because of their famously tolerant support, especially those in the notorious section N of the unsafe stadium, and of course that guy who ran on the pitch to assault my then-manager Neil Lennon. All of this, plus the monthly risk of getting paid, the uncertainty round the ownership, and hearts tradition of sidelining players like medji taoul who dont play hoofball, all makes hearts a very attractive option for me right now"
I really think their only outcome now will be an 'AFC Hearts' or similar set up by the FOH group. With the current club on ice there can be no Rangers style delusions about being a continuation, it'll be start again at whatever level they can get accepted into playing at whatever stadium will let them be tenants. If they manage to survive till the liquidation of Hearts is complete they could then buy their proper name as Fiorentina did a few years back...
I wonder how easy they'd find it to get into SFL3 or whatever it ends up, as they presumably won't even be able to 'buy' the current clubs share in the league / license or anything else as surely that would be deemed an asset and therefore frozen?
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
It was completely expected. This will just be Barry Anderson putting his usual positive spin on all things hearts. The 'news' will probably have the pink hordes twirling their scarves in joy and thinking that everything is back to normal #AllIsBarry
Forgive me if I declare that I've lost all hope that they'll ever implode. It's just never gonna happen, lads.
Never looked forward to eating humble pie so much in my life should they actually sink mind you.
Do you know something the rest of us don't? All signs still point to them heading in the direction of kaput. There's very little happened in the last few months to dissuade me of that. It's a slow process but its moving in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
"Death by a thousand cuts" springs to mind.
If what I've been hearing is even half true, this would be a fabulous result for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by spike220
No inside info at all, just a bit tired of the seemingly endless false dawns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
And from deadline day we all know how much you enjoy eating mate:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
I've already started my shopping list for August's extravaganza :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by scoopyboy
Which reminds me, I must book that day off.
http://local.stv.tv/edinburgh/222716...ns-groups-bid/
STV now have an article with some quotes from Ian Murray MP. Basically it's his job as an impartial outsider to get them all together and come up with a credible bid for the club. He says they'll be dealing with the club directly and will have no dealings with Romanov.
Doesnt explain how exactly he plans on helping buy Romanovs shares a)without speaking to him and b) whilst they are still frozen. In fact, the frozen assets aren't mentioned anywhere at all.
one also has to assume that Hearts won't be happy about Mr Murray giving a interview to STV?
Exactly, none of them seem to understand this. He talks about speaking to the hearts board to try and strike a deal, surely he must know that this just isn't possible at the moment??Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
I had to laugh at Ian Murray being a so called "impartial outsider" as he's a staunch yam!! :agree:
I see their signing ban is to be lifted at the end of the season.
Maybe Rod and the gang should start wholesale cheating from top to bottom, allow the stadium to rot, don't pay the players or anyone else for that matter then maybe we will get plenty favours from the SFA
The hom07 could fa in Tom Kite and come out smelling like roses
Simply do not know how they get away with it...:confused:
What false dawns? It's an ever-darkening sunset.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
What is it they are getting away with?Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
They are up to their eyes in debt, with £500k due to HMRC next month. They can't be bought by anyone, and their owner is close to being put into insolvency. If that happens in the next few weeks, they will be relegated. If it happens in the summer, they start next season with probably -15 points.
It is , even better than that will be watching these ignorant yam roasters falling out over what cakes to bake for d day! No way back for the fuds now, be playing at saughton park as AFC Hearts in the Sunday Leagues season 15/16Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Hope so, but can't help thinking nothing will happen to them to be honest, you know what they are like, nobody anywhere has said any different other than this silly fans buy out lark.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Just sayin like...
Nobody? Apart from the Lithuanian Government, and the administrators of UKIO Bankas, and HMRC, and the combined knowledge of Hibs.net, you mean. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
Don't expect anything in the mainstream media until they actually go pop. Hearts aren't a big team (in Edinburgh or elsewhere) so don't have the constant media attention of some clubs. Those that do cover Hearts either aren't competent enough to do any digging or don't want to be kicked off the gravy train. Look what happened to STV, they pressed until it hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
Please don't make the mistake of thinking because you're not hearing anything that nothing is happening. Dominos, lots of them, one at a time.
Fair enough but Dunfermline aren't a big team either....:hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
They have gone Pop though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
I know they have Crops, but the Pars story came out of the blue compared to the never ending saga of the yaks...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The Pars story has been bubbling away since last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
When UBIG held the security, in lieu of debt, over Tynie it was written into the agreement that it would mature some time in June (18th or something? an exact date WAS applied). Since it was written over to UKIO and will now be in the hands of UKIO's liquidators I reckon it won't be called in until that date - unless the UBIG investigation comes to head sooner and some other liability is discovered and called in before then. Even so it'll be a double whammy, the tribulations of both UBIG and UKIO will hit Hearts heavily and either aspect on their own would be enough to sink them - for those not paying attention this will appear as though it has "come out the blue". In fact it'll be 'Straight Outta Kaunas'.
The only other way they will be hit sooner, and subsequently hit by the football authorities this season, is if Frodo and Samwise Gamgee can throw the "one" ring into the....(oops, sorry wrong epic), is if Fedotas and/or Roman Romanov (still listed as Chairman) are dragged into the criminal proceedings currently facing His Vladness. My popcorn ran out ages ago watching this tale, but the denouement when it comes will bring fireworks, FACT etc etc ad-in.
It is public knowledge that Dunfermline have been in financial trouble for well over a year now (they failed to pay wages at the beginning of 2012) and possibly, privately, for much longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
Generally these things drag on as long as the owners/directors can keep the plates spinning but the demise, when it does eventually arrive, gives the appearance that it is sudden.
It didn't really, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HIBERNIAN-0762
It would have been discussed on the Pars equivalent of Hibs.net, I'm sure, for a long time. The fact that it wasn't national news merely reflects the relative size of them compared to the Hearts and the Huns.
In the Yams share prospectus it said that UBIG would continue with the debt as status quo but would be reviewed in July.
Wouldn't rely too much on that assertion now, given developments in recent months :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Just mention it as the way it was worded seemed a bit "it can't go on like this" kind of thing, a bit foreboding if you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashinGlass
I get you. It would have been a lot simpler (and a damned lot less misleading) for them to state in the prospectus "either way, we're ****** :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Treadstone
UBIG would say "what's this we Kemo Sabe ?"Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashinGlass
Murray may underestimate the feelings of the Lithuanian government too. It was them that instigated the current proceedings after all, that seem to be the thing that will bring the tyncastle walls tumbling down. many people in Lithland are seriously pissed off about an organisation/squad o' torags that have been at the fiddle for years using people's investments etc to further their own interests. they just happen to have used a Scottish football club as a vehicle/plaything along the way. a Government from another country,albeit a fledgling in European marketing terms, are unlikely to have any feelings of saving a diddy fitba' club that owes their country and people a substantial amount o' dosh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajillions
I think you mean an ever lightening dawn...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
It has been said over and over that the yams and ubig are one in the same!
It has also been said vlad has majority shares in each!
Vlad was also majority shareholder in ukio!(now defunked)
I know ubig by name are the majority owners of hearts.
If myself and every one else on hibs net know these FACTS !!(lol)
Then so must sfa,spl,euafa,the 400000 twirlers and alsbarry Anderson.
By his own admission vlad(using vladpseak) has said the baw is burst.
The FACT!!(lol) none of the above can work out what happens next is not an enigma it is fear !
When the sympathy starts we should never ever forget,ever!!!
The years of crap we have had to endure from this mob :agree:
Agree 100% . All the " we owe it to ourselves ", big team / wee team bullsh*t etc should never be forgotton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glesgahibby
How long before the fat slug Foulkes announces the Yams have been punished enough and they should be bailed out by the whole country because they are an " insitution ". :greengrin
Not heard from Fatty "Lord" Foulkes for a while now. Is he on some extended foreign why-pish-your-breeks-in-wintry-Scotland-when-you-could-be-doing-it-here-in-sunnier-climes junket?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
That's them. Senior moments coming thick and fast now.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Is it not today or tomorrow the Yams are meant to be getting struck off?
:confused:what? Lord Foulkes? Likes a freebie you imply? surely not. Is this the same Lord Foulkes who helped ease Vlad and the current regime in and was a rabid supporter of the dear leader?Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
This Lord Foulkes?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pe...ep-433201.htmlQuote:
The genial Blair sycophant George Foulkes - Baron Foulkes of Cumnock since Tony elected him a life peer and now one of the henchmen trying to treat Labour's Scottish schizophrenia - was a most promising shadow cabinet minister until he came to suffer "a nasty fall on the slopes of Glenfiddich in July 1993".
At a party held by the Scotch Whisky Association, the defence spokesman at the time, also a magistrate, drank adequately from the fountain of the water of life. One witness described Foulkes's subsequent behaviour as "like Zebedee on acid". The MP trundled back to the Commons for a crunch vote.
Unfortunately, the pavements of Westminster dipped and rose like the deck of a clipper on a choppy sea, tossing him into the arms of pedestrians. An attempt to dance with a 70-year-old lady resulted in them both hugging the asphalt. Foulkes biffed one persistently helpful constable on the chin.
He was arrested and invited to spend the night enjoying Her Majesty's hospitality. He pleaded guilty to assault and being drunk and disorderly, and was fined £1,050. He vowed not to drink whisky again.
So I am delighted to hear of an invitation doing the rounds. In his capacity as president of the Caribbean-Britain Business Council, Foulkes is hosting a party at the House of Lords on 13 March: a "rum punch reception". A Caribbean holiday for two shall be raffled and guests hope Foulkes will lead the calypso. (He is, of course, bringing the punch.) Boing!
:hilariousQuote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
For those who don't know WC Fields he was a legendary comedy actor in the 30s and 40s and a bigger legend in boozing, he took Grouch Marx up to his loft at his home and Marx said there was enough booze to last a lifetime up there and said to Fields "Bill, prohibitions over" and Fields said "might come back again" :aok:
But I really couldn't tell you who was the biggest sot between Fatty and WC, both were clowns in their own right.
What is it with this number "7" and the word "result" that keep reminding me of them? I know I'm getting a wee bit older, and my memory is not as great as it once was! I was thinking that maybe Hearts had a sponsorship deal that was worth 7 figures or was it with product that was made by Coca Cola that was on their shirts? Can some please help me out!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
Sorry, no new info but I don't like seeing this thread off page 1! Just on a conversational note that's 3 weeks in a row with no home game income for Yams & it very much looks like Locke was told to get rid of Barr. The tick tock & drip drip continues!
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//c...053062&#result
I see the Heart of Midlothian 2005 Company now has a dissolved note against its name in the Companies House web list.
Good to know they are not ignoring the Yams failures to comply with their rules.
Although this will have no real affect on the football club Company, did HOMFC 2005 not have a small percentage of the PLC's shares ( about 3% I think ).
If they have not been transferred, Her Majesty will now be the proud owner of part of Yam F C. :greengrin.
Will she be invited to join SOH or whatever the maroon cardigan brigade are calling themselves this week.
If Her Maj is now part of Hearts and they owe all that money to HMRC, doesn't that mean they owe it to themselves? :hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger
Attachment 9704
Latest news update concerns the Yams.
Was it CH that instigated the striking-off process, or was it housekeeping on the part of the company itself?Quote:
Originally Posted by greenginger