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Apologies if this has been asked but i`ve not read through the last few pages yet..but how does this now affect the double contract investigation, the ineligible players and the years of cheating.
Is all of this now irrelevant? Can the newco still be liable for this?
So a brilliant piece of Administration. The creditors end up with diddly-squat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
Duff and Phelps have not covered themselves in glory with this one.
This whole thing has been a stitch-up from the start.
Two to go, surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrebus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Not enough. Re-start in Division 3 or there is no integrity left whatsoever. They have cheated for years, let them suffer and start again at the bottom.
Does anybody actually think that the other SFL Chairmen will vote for FC Govan to reapply for the league and start again in division 3?
Turkeys do not vote for christmas and St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, St Mirren and probably even Celtic will keep FC Govan alive in the SPL. Its a total disgrace that a team running up so much debt and breaking so many rules will probably get away with it just because of who they are.
As a side issue does anybody else have doubts that Hibs will vote with integrity on this matter? I for one dont. :grr:
I dont post often but I am furious about this. If this was Hibs, Hearts, etc we all know what the outcome would be.
Boot them out and change the voting structure anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
How can a clause in the CVA...a CVA that has now failed...be invoked to sell all the assets for £5.5m before the liquidators are appointed?
This seems like hot air and hubris and would almost certianly be challenged in court by the main creditors no?
Should the admins not now pass this to the liquidators as is and the liquidator will then pursue best value for the assets for the creditors...i.e effectively Rangers are now owned by their creditors and therefore all assets should be retained for their benefit. The common shareholder has been wiped out
What I don't understand is when this legally happens..when does the control/ownership move from the common shareholder to the liquidator/creditor? And I certainly don't understand why D&P and Green are in such an unholy rush to get the £5.5m deal completed...one final attmept to shaft every creditor one last time?
Quite agree - was just thinking at least if they are to be voted back in there needs to be big changes as they are in no position to say no to anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
The SPL doesn't have any other divisions so punting them to Division 3 isn't an option for the SPL. They just have to decide on a yes or no basis and it would be for the SFL to worry about how they fill the gap.
By sheer coincidence, it's about the same amount as D&P have racked up in fees. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
in between all the no surrender watp blah blah blah threads on swallow swallow, there's actually a sensible thread asking a pertinent question in relation to the NIC's/PAYE/VAT whatever monies(which i've often wondered about myself) , WHY in the last several months did HMRC not do anything about the non-payments from the buns :confused: hertz get a letter of court proceedings every other month that they haven't been paid, so why allow the buns to go month after month after month without doing something about it a helluva lot sooner :dunno:
apologies if Q already answered 2,333,532 posts ago :wink:
Because Rangers had never missed a payment before. HMRC don't send the heavies round just because you miss one or two payment dates.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
No chance IMO. The backlash from their support if they did would outway any negatives from Rangers being pumped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln Green
Answered few pages up...SPL dual contract investigation could still leave them open to 'charges'...From Hectors point of view its over (other than seeking to nail historical owners / directors)Quote:
Originally Posted by RossHibs
To be fair to D&P (hard as that is) Rangers made themselves toxic and worth diddly squat...like selling pork for a Jewish wedding feastQuote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Div 3 would be my favoured route---and should ensure all those saying they would not go back without punishment will fill ER to the brim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
but it wasn't just the one or two payments though, or was it
Was this not what HMRC applied to put them into administration for in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Hearts would have got that too if they hadn't paid up each time at the last minute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedway
Well, not really. Would rather they just suffered than disappeared.
When the EBT thingy is done and dusted with the Gers it will be the Yams turn next. Seem to remember something dodgy about Skatchels reported wage in a court case a few months back?
Maybe that bloody Scottish Cup will end up on the ER sideboard after all...........,
:rolleyes:
Nope thier fees are around £3.5 (still a scandal) with £2million of other costs like legal fees..also they have disclosed having over £3 million in the bankQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Pretty sure they need 8 teams do vote in their favour. I know for a fact us and Dundee United will defo not vote for them. Sure Aberdeen and Hearts will be in the same boat as us. I will be happy if they go into the 3rd division and most Rangers fans I have spoke to will accept that aswell, and am not talking about the mutant huns that say they are going to put a ring of fans round Hampden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincoln Green
And the proceeds of the properties go to the creditors, so they are much better off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
Cheers. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
Sorry if this has been asked/answered before, but i've seen a few rankgers fans complaining that the league structure was once changed to keep aberdeen in the spl years ago. Cant find any articles to back this statement up and maybe im too young to remember, was wondering if anybody is able to shed any light on this?
My opinion is that the situation has got to a stage where it is getting almost impossible for clubs to be able to vote them in to the SPL due to the furious backlash from their own fans.
The legal position is that a liquidator cannot be appointed to Oldco until the administration process is finished: that will happen when D&P sell the assets to Green's Newco for £5.5m. At which point D&P trouser the dosh and exit tout suite. BDO are then appointed liquidators to Oldco (neither they, nor D&P have any status with Newco).Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
But (and it's a big but), BDO can challenge the Newco deal if they consider that it did not represent best value for the creditors. To my mind, it is virtually certain that they will do so. If they succeed, the deal is null and void, so the big question for D&P and (in particular) Green, is whether they are prepared to run that risk.
What do you think this will this cost Hibs per season?
I have stated I would not go back to Easter Road if a newco Rangers go straight back into SPL. (I gave up my season 2 years ago before I slit my wrists watching Hibs). I have continued to go on an irregular basis.
However, if Rangers newco do not get elected into SPL I will buy a season ticket to support Hibs and the SPL for taking the moral integrity stance. Would anyone else do the same?
Would make a good poll if anyone can do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Togs91
I think Falkirk won the First Division, but Brockville was not up to scratch for SPL - so Sheep stayed up......,
The year we went from 10 to 12 teams the Dons finished bottom, but obviously there was no relegation. This wasn't done to save them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togs91
In any case, Rangers haven't finished bottom, they've ceased to exist.
Reference how many payments they make, do business not just pay tax once a year or something?
The SPL can't send them to Division 3, they can just refuse to have them in the SPL.
:agree::agree::agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
It was worked oiut by one of the papers at around £150k per year I think. Other clubs had bigger projected shortfalls but nothing like the figures suggested by many.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosscarnie
It also ignored any uplift from more competitive games.
The structure was not changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togs91
Aberdeen finished bottom in 2000.
The League was due to expand to 12 clubs. St Mirren and Dunfermline were promoted.
Aberdeen should have played off against Falkirk for an SPL place but Brockville was rejected as not meeting SPL requirements.
does anyone know if they've set a date for the SPL vote yet?
Indeed. The pressure to cancel their SPL license is growing though, what with their entry into liquidation, their Court of Session faux pas, their ongoing SPL double-contracts investigation, and not to mention their politically suicidal refusal to accept any form of real punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Not sure that is right it appears that there would have been a play off (like us v Airdrie) but Falkirk's ground kept them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
This was from Wiki.
Aberdeen have finished bottom of the league on two occasions, 1916-17 and 1999-2000. They were spared relegation in 1917 after having to withdraw from the league because of World War I. In 2000, they avoided a play-off against the second and third place teams in the First Division because Falkirk's ground did not comply with SPL regulations.[2]
There was a change to the structure and (a relegated) Aberdeen got lucky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togs91
It wasn't changed to benefit Aberdeen .. therein lies the difference. :wink:
Nope..can vary PAYE mostly monthly and VAT Quarterly...but it depends on turn over...and can be different cycles than this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius Apuleius
Too much of a risk for HMRC (to say nothing of cash flow for goverment) to wait a year for these types of revenue..
Corporation Tax more normally annually (you need to know profit before Tax can be calculated)
Apologies if this has been asked and answered already, but how many clubs have to vote in favour of a newco rangers being admitted into the spl?
Andy Goram on SSN saying be careful what you wish for. I say vote them out and don't be blackmailed.
We can live without the huns.
Agreed - but one assumes they (and their bosses at the SFA) could also add some 'friendly advice' to the SFL about newco Rangers being back in the Scottish league structure as a benefit to Scottish football as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
I believe that an 8-4 majority is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiglet
Rangers will not be able to vote so 4 clubs should be able to block a share transfer.
Aberdeen, Hibs, Celtic(?), and one other.
8 I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiglet
Nope they were due to play in a play off to avoid relegation but Faklkirk's ground problem meant they stayed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by StevieC
Rangers plight and attitute reminds me of the Black Knight....watch as they claim...
'Tis But a Scratch'...'Its only a Flesh wound'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
St. Mirren are a cert after they tried to take them over, their chairman Stewart Gilmour has already voiced his anger at the goings on along the road from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by jgl07
I presume that even if they had more money there is neither the time or the HMRC position that would allow Kennedy and Murray back into play?
This was how I read Wild Bill Pickup's incubator plan. Oldco would rent the properties to Newco and the money would be used to reduce Oldco's debts until such time as a CVA could be achieved and then the two would merge.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The bit that I can't make my mind up about though, is that £5.5m is ridiculously low for properties like Ibrox and Murray Park plus players' registrations, stock, fixtures and fittings and effectively the business of Rangers FC without any debts. Take out the properties and it becomes more realistic (although still quite cheap IMO). On the other hand, the implication within the CVA proposal - apart from the bit I'm referring to - is that the properties are included, and the liquidation scenario produces only £4.6m - again, ridculously low, but that values goodwill, players registrations etc at only £900k. Neither option makes complete sense to me unless the porperties really have already been salted away into separate ownership....Quote:
Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter
I think that Murray was a time waster with no cash and Kennedy, as usual, was seeking attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPJ
If they refused them entry into the SPL, Scottish football would be cutting its own throat, as a newco Rangers would simply go into the English Premiership, which has been their intention for some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Colin Hendry on SSN saying that Scottish football is Rangers and Celtic
Ignorant prick
Quote:
Originally Posted by c31
Interesting views last week from Stephen Thomson. Could add Dundee Utd to the list
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18365480
So he could sell Naismith and McGregor for example and make his money back immediately and own a debt free Rangers, a stadium and a training centre for nowt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Seems a bit strange to me.
Very poor attempt at :stirrer: BobQuote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
Dunno, but I hope the SPL chairman consider that Rangers fans have already decided they want to boycott all away games so we wouldnt make any money off them that way anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by rosscarnie
...the inevitable jokes comparing SDM to Lester Piggot, Jeffrey Archer etc will start very shortly. Who wants to go first?
Except that Naismith and McGregor could opt out of the Newco transfer and walk out as free agents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Hendry should STFU and keep out of the public eye after fleecing his mate for 85K last year the K***
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scot...you-slurp.html
Correct, and consider how much an auction of the entire contents of Ibrox and Murray Park would fetch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Finally Hector gets his revenge!
Al Capone springs to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by iwasthere1972
I'm sure it was worked out that clubs had to attract an extra 100 fans a game to make up the shortfall from Rangers visits. Obviously that's simplistic as it doesn't take into account a potential change in the TV deal.
Scottish football just has to adapt. If Hibs vote to keep Rangers in I'd find that very hard to take. If Hibs voted against but the Huns stayed in I'd continue to go to home games but would boycott every team who voted then back on.
This is a real chance to put sporting integrity first.
Paul Daniels both are faded institutions whose magic has disappeared. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
So Rangers last 2 owners where Green & Whyte and the last player they signed was Celik. You really couldn't make this up. :faf:
Daniel Bryan just heard the news
http://youtu.be/d3r5WQKmoUs
:lolrangers:
So will Rangers get to keep:
1. Their current name -- Glasgow Rangers F.C.
2. Their badge
3. Their trophy record/history
I think the more pertinent question is how much would it cost Hibs per season in lost ticket sales if Rangers do get re-admittedQuote:
Originally Posted by rosscarnie
The trophies will end with the club. All the cups won they keep but any new ones starts as one. So really we're a more successful team then then if the form a New-co :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxburghHibs
They will need a new badge too. They aren't actually called Glasgow Rangers so i'd imagine that may be the new name when reforming.
The only thing that was missing was the ransom note.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4SDxV6FDAs
Andy Goram :giruy:
Apologies for the quality. I kept moving the phone.
if new co united get back into the spl which i think they will they need to be heavily punished as a result however i think chairmen of the other smaller clubs will sell the jersey's simply to have the bigots back in i hope they go to divison 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecat23
Guest :
What happens to the trophies won as Rangers FC, do they get transferred to the Newco?
Tuesday June 12, 2012 3:13
STV Andy: If the SPL approve a transfer of share to admit a New Rangers then yes, the league titles would transfer over. The same applies to other trophies if the SFA membership is approved.
However, it is worth bearing in mind that the investigation into dual contracts is still ongoing and the SPL have said that stripping titles is a possible sanction.
says an english based hibby, since a way back? always remember, there are more giant pandas in Scotland.....than tory MPs.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe breezy
bellend that is all goram and the rest of the ex huns are all pleading there case
That's crazy mate. They should lose all rights to the trophies if they fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin80
Plenty of like minded folk falling over themselves to avoid paying taxes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by iwasthere1972
Hmmmm, nice to hear the flying pig squealing outside the farmyard........,
:rolleyes:
They might find that difficult. Wasn't there something about Celtic fans/financial opportunists buying all legal copyright names when the Huns financial difficulties were first mooted?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecat23
Somehow, yes I would.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
When it comes to Hector and his rules, non of them have a leg to stand on.
Haha that rings a bell. That would be very funny. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin80
That just doesn't add up? In theory I could start a new club today. Purchase Ibrox and call myself Huns F.C - but I would be a NEWCO with no history. Surely I can't just adopt their history?
Also I wish they would stop hidding behind the term NEWCO - should it not just be NEW CLUB?
How can Rangers assets e.g. Ibrox, the players and Murray park be sold, if HMRC are due £20m?
Think we all should be drafting a letter up to Petrie very soon to remind him of our feelings come vote timeQuote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
in theory you could - but Greene has a binding agreement to buy assets and registrations of Old CoQuote:
Originally Posted by RoxburghHibs
Rangers get to keep all historic trophies - works the other way though. Any punishment that will be dished out due to double contracts ("only match fixing worse") will transfer to new co as they have taken over rangers membership
.....and the captain of the Titanic? They were both at the helm of sinking ships.
In reality there should be a vote to see who replaces them in the Scottish Leagues as there was following the demise of Gretna. Rangers FC will, in essence, cease to exist so therefore there will be a vacancy in the league set up. Newhun FC should take their chance to be elected by members along with Spartans and Gala Fairydean, who have been trying to get in for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottB
Bye bye. As paying customers/supporters of our club it was us who were cheated. Our club must not vote to see them kept in.
I have been struggling to decide to go on holiday or get me a season ticket this year. ( I haven't been on a good holiday in 5 years)Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
And yes I can officically say I will take up this "offer" !
It's not that far-fetched. The fans are what really makes up any club, not the board, who are custodians, or the players, who are temporary. If I were a businessman, I'd be going after Ibrox long before I went for the players contracts or 'intellectual' rights. Who has the church has the flock, and who has the flock has the club, even if they have to start non-league. So the scenario mooted on here earlier, about 2 competing Rangers FC's, is still credible, if a bit far-fetched.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxburghHibs
It seems to me that Green doesn't have money to buy both parts of the club. Yet, there seems to be a belief that all the assets will end up in the hands of the same Newco (Green) and for a relatively trifling sum. That is very naive, and now that the incompetent, obstructive D&P are out the picture (who only seemed in their to buy Murray/Whyte more time) the HMRC appointed liquidators will go for the most money in the sale and won't be bound by sentiment/vested interest in the same way. I think other people might come in now.
.......................and Prince Philip. They both shafted the Queen good and proper.
If it comes to liquidation, all the assets will be sold. IIRC, there will be no value in the players, as I think their contracts are cancelled or revert to the SFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
The proceeds of those sales will be distributed amongst the creditors pro rata. HMRC will still get much less than their original claim, as will everyone else, but almost certainly more than they would have under the CVA.
For the record, RFC are not yet in liquidation. D&P are still administrators, and still have much of their job to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin80
That sounds good.
For that and other reasons, this will probably drag on to the extent I can see the newco Huns missing a season in the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caversham Green
Rangers average income over the last ten seasons tops £50m per season average. Given that most SPL clubs wage bill is between £3m-£5m then there is huge scope to make money.
It's a huge defining moment for Scottish football. The product has been dull and Hun cheating has helped strangle the last of the competition out the game. I think so many people have had enough and are ready to walk. If this window of opportunity to clean up the game is wasted by a bunch of cowards and self-interested short-termist fools who want an easy life, then it's finished in my book.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdinMike
BDO the liquidators of Rangers FC have made a statement
BDO partners Malcolm Cohen and James Stephen will be appointed joint-liquidators to the old company, although no timescale for when this will happen has been made available.
Cohen said: "Once BDO is formally appointed, the joint liquidators will be seeking to protect any remaining assets, maximise recoveries for the benefit of creditors, and investigate the reasons behind the failure of the company.
"It is right that there is a full and robust investigation into why the company failed, together with concerted efforts to recover monies for creditors and the taxpayer. This may include pursuit of possible claims against those responsible for the financial affairs of the company in previous years."
David Murray could be in for some hard labour. Wonder if Campbell Ogilvie will get off scot free?
Heard it for the first time driving home from Stirling on the M80 when I put the 1 o'clock news on the radio. Nearly swerved right off onto the hard shoulder when they read the news out,
and then this hit song from 1989 popped into my head for some reason :greengrin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dft5CgEvTPE
:woohoo: :partyhibb :cheers:
:faf:Quote:
Originally Posted by iwasthere1972
Would anyone else s****** ever so slightly if its now announced that the Big Tax Case has went in Rangers favour? Be honest.....
http://sport.stv.tv/football/105857-...w-for-rangers/
On this STV Q&A a guy asked this
Guest: Guys, we are aware NewCo Rangers would inherit history of OldCo Rangers if membership transfer is agreed. What if SPL vote No to accepting them but SFA agree to transfer. Would that mean most of Ranger's history is intact but they would lose history from '98 onwards? Thanks :).
Was answered with this
STV Grant:
Rangers would still be down as the title winners but any New Rangers which started again in Division Three presumably wouldn't be viewed as the same club as Old Rangers by the SPL.
So to answer your question, New Rangers wouldn't have won SPL titles from 1998 onwards.
Also on the Q&A was this cracker
Eddie Hart :
how can the newco get a vote on if they can become an spl member surely only existing members get a vote and on that surely the oldco wont have a vote either as they no longer exist?? is there NO integrity in this game??
Answer
Eddie, the newco doesn't vote. The oldco still exists at this point and holds the share so it has the right to vote on any proposal on the table. Obviously they will vote yes but they are entitled to do so.
I think there's about to be an implosion at RFC and the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
We have the completely ludicrous position of Duff and Duffer making statements about which they no longer have any say - well after the formal CVA rejection vote is in on Thursday.
Then we have the Green Goblin pontificating as if he now has a done deal on the first favoured position ahead of liquidation.:rolleyes:
Hector has already said that's not the case.:thumbsup:
The Weegie media are already forecasting that NewHunCo will be in the SPL next year.:confused:
And Donkey-caster is nowhere to be found.
The sparks have only just started!:cb
No one bought up "Zombie Rangers FC". That's were they'll go imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S
That way there will be a constant reminder that they were once just "Rangers" and the fans can continue in their shambling, bedraggled style without a blink. The green skin might be a draw back though.