What's the chances of fans going back in September?

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Fair enough, each to their own. I don’t agree, and think that until a vaccine is found we should not be attending mass gatherings - distancing in place or not.

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There may never be a vaccine.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Well let’s rephrase it and say that for matches the club has no actual money coming through the door and has had to burn through season ticket income at a much faster rate than normal due to no walk up tickets being sold, is that better?

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Not really. They're still just tickets that were bought in advance.

Otherwise you could argue that we should continue selling tickets and just not allow anybody in ever again, as it would incur extra costs.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Why? If it’s putting peoples health at risk then IMO nothing should go before that. You can take all the precautions you like but health has to come first and football should be one of things at the bottom of the pile.

It’s a bit of a contradiction, having “thank you NHS” on the tops while putting peoples health at risk.

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It’s been over 3 weeks now since the Aberdeen outbreak, 200 people confirmed COVID positive, how many of those have become seriously ill? None. Cases are at their highest they have been in months yet there is still only two in intensive care (the same two for weeks now) and no new deaths for goodness knows how long.

If that’s not proof that the virus is substantially weaker now than it was then I’d love to see the reasoning behind it. Everywhere else is opening up yet we want hibs to continue a lock out just for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

There may never be a vaccine.

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Maybe not, but I’d rather wait and see.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

It’s been over 3 weeks now since the Aberdeen outbreak, 200 people confirmed COVID positive, how many of those have become seriously ill? None. Cases are at their highest they have been in months yet there is still only two in intensive care (the same two for weeks now) and no new deaths for goodness knows how long.

If that’s not proof that the virus is substantially weaker now than it was then I’d love to see the reasoning behind it. Everywhere else is opening up yet we want hibs to continue a lock out just for the sake of it.

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Aberdeen went back in to lockdown.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Not really. They're still just tickets that were bought in advance.

Otherwise you could argue that we should continue selling tickets and just not allow anybody in ever again, as it would incur extra costs.

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I don’t even know where you’re trying to go with that. Is suggesting that fans don’t go to games and are recompensed further down the line that bad a suggestion?

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

It’s been over 3 weeks now since the Aberdeen outbreak, 200 people confirmed COVID positive, how many of those have become seriously ill? None. Cases are at their highest they have been in months yet there is still only two in intensive care (the same two for weeks now) and no new deaths for goodness knows how long.

If that’s not proof that the virus is substantially weaker now than it was then I’d love to see the reasoning behind it. Everywhere else is opening up yet we want hibs to continue a lock out just for the sake of it.

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The virus is definitely not substantually weaker, its the fact most of the folk in Aberdeen were young is the reason theres not alot of folk in IC. Anyone that thinks it is weaker needs their heid looked at. The fact that the majority of Scots have taken the virus seriously and taken the appropriate action is the reason why we havent seen many cases. Its being managed well in Scotland. The rest of Europe are going back into lockdown unless you havent been following the news, and its because of bigger gatherings its happening, ffs.

Caught a bit on Sportsound saying few clubs have been approached to trial crowds before 14th September .
Lesser greens were mentioned but also St Johnstone surely Hibs have been approached as outside the erse cheeks playing next week we have the biggest stadium .
The week after is international break so next weekend only 1 available.
Maybe just a couple of hundred to start with.
Club should be using full stadium, if away team changing in the South let them come out between south / west or south/ east or put temporary porta cabin outside the ground for them .
Will take a while to build up crowds , could go down to 1m distancing like pubs , masks compulsory. Sanitiser everywhere . Time slots for getting in and staggered exit. Going to be a long time to get anywhere near normal whatever that will be and could be a fair bit of hassle getting into games then it will be individuals choice if they want to go.
Hopefully a vaccine soon to get life back to normal

Uu

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Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass

The virus is definitely not substantually weaker, its the fact most of the folk in Aberdeen were young is the reason theres not alot of folk in IC. Anyone that thinks it is weaker needs their heid looked at. The fact that the majority of Scots have taken the virus seriously and taken the appropriate action is the reason why we havent seen many cases. Its being managed well in Scotland. The rest of Europe are going back into lockdown unless you havent been following the news, and its because of bigger gatherings its happening, ffs.

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Do you honestly believe that having the third highest death rate in Europe is managing well?

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Uu

Do you honestly believe that having the third highest death rate in Europe is managing well?

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Yes. You can’t keep looking at what happened at the beginning and saying we’re not managing it well now. Mistakes were made, and the government will have to answer for that, but I’m more interested in what’s happening now.

Just been reading 200 fans were allowed into a local non league game near me today.

Think it was a friendly and they sold tickets out for it.

Ground is one that has a small seated stand and standing by a railing all way round.

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Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass

The virus is definitely not substantually weaker, its the fact most of the folk in Aberdeen were young is the reason theres not alot of folk in IC. Anyone that thinks it is weaker needs their heid looked at. The fact that the majority of Scots have taken the virus seriously and taken the appropriate action is the reason why we havent seen many cases. Its being managed well in Scotland. The rest of Europe are going back into lockdown unless you havent been following the news, and its because of bigger gatherings its happening, ffs.

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Scotland has basically opened back up completely now, very little still to open, outbreaks are happening everywhere, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Perth, Aberdeen, Dumfries. Your not telling me that every single case has been a ‘young person’. Intensive care patients hasn’t been above 3 I don’t think in god knows how long.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Aberdeen went back in to lockdown.

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That doesn’t make any difference when 200 had already tested positive, none of those cases ended up in ICU after the 3 week period that the government tell us about.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Scotland has basically opened back up completely now, very little still to open, outbreaks are happening everywhere, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Perth, Aberdeen, Dumfries. Your not telling me that every single case has been a ‘young person’. Intensive care patients hasn’t been above 3 I don’t think in god knows how long.

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Most outbreaks are linked to a workplace. Dumfries was Carlisle hospital. Perth shire is a food processor.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Most outbreaks are linked to a workplace. Dumfries was Carlisle hospital. Perth shire is a food processor.

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They’re still positive cases though. That’s my point. How the outbreak happened doesn’t matter, it’s the fact that we have all these cases yet absolutely no change in the top line numbers of ICU patients and deaths. That tells me something has changed somewhere.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

They’re still positive cases though. That’s my point. How the outbreak happened doesn’t matter, it’s the fact that we have all these cases yet absolutely no change in the top line numbers of ICU patients and deaths. That tells me something has changed somewhere.

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You suggested that the positive cases were all young people. They are not. About half the cases today are Coupar Angus. 2 weeks ago they were Aberdeen. These are contained within the location by trace and protect.

The fact that the ICU number is stable is because the cases are not serious. Otherwise healthy individuals.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

You suggested that the positive cases were all young people. They are not. About half the cases today are Coupar Angus. 2 weeks ago they were Aberdeen. These are contained within the location by trace and protect.

The fact that the ICU number is stable is because the cases are not serious. Otherwise healthy individuals.

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I never said that at all, someone else said that. However, we’ve seen previously that healthy individuals aren’t immune from the severity of it and ultimately dying from it. My point is, why is it now different? Why are the cases not serious? Healthy and young isn’t a reason as we’ve been told previously.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

You suggested that the positive cases were all young people. They are not. About half the cases today are Coupar Angus. 2 weeks ago they were Aberdeen. These are contained within the location by trace and protect.

The fact that the ICU number is stable is because the cases are not serious. Otherwise healthy individuals.

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what is your definition of young ? 23 cases over the age of 65 in the last week.

The way I see this working... fwiw..

The super computer picks ST seats, allowing for physical distancing. I.e. 5 seats free between people and every other row.

These ST holders are notified- told they must sit in their ST seat.

Fans are told to wear face coverings.

Staff with handheld scanners man the exit doors, you hold out your card, they scan it. No contact. Or you use turnstiles and tell people to sanitize as soon as they walk thru the turnstile.

No food or drink for sale.

No away fans. Equals no real need for police.

Go straight to seat. Could even tell folk to arrive in 20 minute windows. 2.00-2.20pm, 2.20-2.40pm, 2.40-3.00pm?

Just some musings on this..

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Originally Posted by RoYO!

The way I see this working... fwiw..

The super computer picks ST seats, allowing for physical distancing. I.e. 5 seats free between people and every other row.

These ST holders are notified- told they must sit in their ST seat.

Fans are told to wear face coverings.

Staff with handheld scanners man the exit doors, you hold out your card, they scan it. No contact. Or you use turnstiles and tell people to sanitize as soon as they walk thru the turnstile.

No food or drink for sale.

No away fans. Equals no real need for police.

Go straight to seat. Could even tell folk to arrive in 20 minute windows. 2.00-2.20pm, 2.20-2.40pm, 2.40-3.00pm?

Just some musings on this..

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I can't see people sitting in their own seat.

That would mean the away empty for starters.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by RoYO!

The way I see this working... fwiw..

The super computer picks ST seats, allowing for physical distancing. I.e. 5 seats free between people and every other row.

These ST holders are notified- told they must sit in their ST seat.

Fans are told to wear face coverings.

Staff with handheld scanners man the exit doors, you hold out your card, they scan it. No contact. Or you use turnstiles and tell people to sanitize as soon as they walk thru the turnstile.

No food or drink for sale.

No away fans. Equals no real need for police.

Go straight to seat. Could even tell folk to arrive in 20 minute windows. 2.00-2.20pm, 2.20-2.40pm, 2.40-3.00pm?

Just some musings on this..

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I've been thinking about the need for face coverings and I answered someone else recently by saying of course I would wear one if it allows me to get to games again and that still stands.

However I've been reading about other industries which are opening up again (for example bingo which is obviously inside and higher risk) and whilst you are seated in the bingo hall, no face covering is required, you only need one as you're travelling through the building and obviously coming into closer contact with people.

Would a face covering really be required whilst you are in your seat, outside and well away from anyone outside your household group?

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I've been thinking about the need for face coverings and I answered someone else recently by saying of course I would wear one if it allows me to get to games again and that still stands.

However I've been reading about other industries which are opening up again (for example bingo which is obviously inside and higher risk) and whilst you are seated in the bingo hall, no face covering is required, you only need one as you're travelling through the building and obviously coming into closer contact with people.

Would a face covering really be required whilst you are in your seat, outside and well away from anyone outside your household group?

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Sorry that wasn't clear, no, just wear one when approaching ticket staff. Not in seat. The staff member standing outside whilst wearing a mask and possibly a visor would hopefully feel assured that apt measures were in place.

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Originally Posted by Steven79

I can't see people sitting in their own seat.

That would mean the away empty for starters.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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Yep but we've heard how much it costs to put a game on- no small part due to policing. We could host ST holders in the away end too I suppose. Dont see why people would be against sitting in their own seat.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I've been thinking about the need for face coverings and I answered someone else recently by saying of course I would wear one if it allows me to get to games again and that still stands.

However I've been reading about other industries which are opening up again (for example bingo which is obviously inside and higher risk) and whilst you are seated in the bingo hall, no face covering is required, you only need one as you're travelling through the building and obviously coming into closer contact with people.

Would a face covering really be required whilst you are in your seat, outside and well away from anyone outside your household group?

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If that is a condition of entry you need to adhere regardless of what other “industries” or sectors are required to do.

Football needs all fans getting entry to conform as rules broken can effect things going forward.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

They’re still positive cases though. That’s my point. How the outbreak happened doesn’t matter, it’s the fact that we have all these cases yet absolutely no change in the top line numbers of ICU patients and deaths. That tells me something has changed somewhere.

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The vunerable are not exposing themselves, I'd say.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

I never said that at all, someone else said that. However, we’ve seen previously that healthy individuals aren’t immune from the severity of it and ultimately dying from it. My point is, why is it now different? Why are the cases not serious? Healthy and young isn’t a reason as we’ve been told previously.

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Part of the reason is that healthcare for Covid is much better now than it was 4 months ago. Also I think people at high risk are still shielding and overall infection numbers are way down.

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Originally Posted by hibeerealist

If that is a condition of entry you need to adhere regardless of what other “industries” or sectors are required to do.

Football needs all fans getting entry to conform as rules broken can effect things going forward.

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As I've said quite clearly, I'd have no problem wearing one.

Away season ticket holders should be allowed in to home games. Easy to socially distance 200 people in the east stand. Most valuable fans should be rewarded.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Part of the reason is that healthcare for Covid is much better now than it was 4 months ago. Also I think people at high risk are still shielding and overall infection numbers are way down.

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Nobody is shielding anymore as far as I understand. Overall numbers are down, however taking the 200 cases in Aberdeen or the 100+ in Perthshire, those are big numbers for very little impact to be had. The healthcare part is one I understand and kinda the point I’m making, due to this should we be less worried about it? I’m no scientist so can only take the simple view based on figures, but to me more is opening up, due to this we are getting spikes in numbers, however those numbers aren’t translating into serious health concerns including ICU/death increases.

Jason Leitch said a number of months ago in a Scottish FA Q&A that at some point we may/will have to live with this virus the same as the flu, common colds etc. Is that time now? In my view the numbers would seem to say so.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Nobody is shielding anymore as far as I understand. Overall numbers are down, however taking the 200 cases in Aberdeen or the 100+ in Perthshire, those are big numbers for very little impact to be had. The healthcare part is one I understand and kinda the point I’m making, due to this should we be less worried about it? I’m no scientist so can only take the simple view based on figures, but to me more is opening up, due to this we are getting spikes in numbers, however those numbers aren’t translating into serious health concerns including ICU/death increases.

Jason Leitch said a number of months ago in a Scottish FA Q&A that at some point we may/will have to live with this virus the same as the flu, common colds etc. Is that time now? In my view the numbers would seem to say so.

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I think its more nuanced than that.

What is being reported as "spikes" at the moment are not really translating into large numbers in hospitals / ICU and on to deaths - you touched on this a few posts up.

We are now able to test and trace far better than we could at the absolute peak - when hospital admissions and deaths were about the only data we had.

In all probability the infection rates all over Europe at the peak this year were enormous and much larger than anyone was reporting (because we simply didnt have the capability to test and count them properly).

i.e. a report of 200 people infected in April could have actually been 2000 or more as everyone was flailing about in the dark.

We are now - even with the Aberdeen / Cupar / Dumfries outbreaks - in a position where the numbers infected and traced / isolated are much more manageable and are far more accurate than a few months back.

The government / health service seems quite comfortable with the current situation but it will be baby steps toward anything with big crowds, even outdoors.