Only a select few can now benefit from the glories of the maroon pound of the Edinburgh Rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Steve
Coincidentally it’s all the teams who would have benefit from league reconstruction.
Everyone else is vermin.
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Only a select few can now benefit from the glories of the maroon pound of the Edinburgh Rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Steve
Coincidentally it’s all the teams who would have benefit from league reconstruction.
Everyone else is vermin.
They'd win that league. Masters of the bail out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Sound logic 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
Dundee United deserve to be in the league more than Hearts do next season, that's what's happening, that's sporting integrity. The 12 top teams in the country will be in the top league, what more can anyone want?!
Been reported in English press the FA have said season must end with relagation and promotion. If can’t restart Liverpool champions 3 relagated
Express.co.uk
So do we think tomorrow is the day it’s confirmed they are officially relegated ?
While there are indeed plenty of examples of teams with the worst record 80% of the way through going on to escape relegation, there are, of course, FAR MORE examples of them getting relegated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
We're in a very unique and unfortunate situation. Whilst it's not totally fair to relegate Hearts, it would be more unfair not to promote Dundee Utd. It would also be more unfair to let them away with being the worst team, with most of the games played already.
As the alternatives would be less fair. Relegating Hearts is in fact the fair thing to do.
There are only 2 options here. Reward supporting success so far this season, or reward sporting failure.
Seems like an easy choice to me.....
Bit of linseed oil rubbed into the old bat and they'd be good to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
I think you`re gonna have to use something way better than linseed oil on the old bat before you are good to goQuote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
I think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenCastle
Get ready for tantrum central.
In these circumstances it’s very easy to find a reason why it’s unfair and cling into it if you’re one of the affected parties because their judgement is clouded by emotion. If I was a Hearts, Partick, Falkirk etc fan then this would be a painful one to take but ultimately I would know drop downQuote:
Originally Posted by Future17
that it’s the least worst case, to quote LD.
I actually think she summed it up perfectly with that statement and if the affected clubs have a better suggestion then I’m still waiting to hear it. Clyde are 7th in the second lowest tier and stood to be in the bottom tier of Hearts had their way then they would be suffering, so to try and play the victim who is looking out for everyone is at best ignorant.
If I had the choice I would’ve wanted the whole campaign played cause I am certain they were going down anyway, even after splashing out they couldn’t match St Mirren and Hamilton etc
What time will it be statement o'clock? Need to have champagne chilled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
Wonder how many words will be in Queen Anne's statement.
My guess is we’ll get the first rumours Rangers vote has failed around 2.30-3pm. The clubs have already said they want the season ended so after a break they’ll quickly smash the hammer on the season.We’ll maybe get the rumours around 4.30-5. Look out your window around then, you’ll see 400,000 toys flying towards the moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
This is a fair point.
Obviously, not completing the season is a very sub-optimal outcome. Hearts did deserve the chance to get themselves out of trouble if at all possible.
However, as has been clear from mid March, we are in the art of the possible here, and the situation is as follows:
1. Currently, no football can be played and no one knows when it will be allowed to resume.
2. Declaring the season ‘null and void’ creates huge, possibly unending liabilities for clubs.
3. No credible and detailed proposal for league reconstruction has been put forward.
In this very difficult situation, the SPFL has taken the only course of action that makes sense, in my view.
Budge claims reconstruction would create ‘no losers’ but she never put a plan on the table, so how can we be sure? And how could other clubs vote for it?
Party, partyQuote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
I don't disagree with most of that, however there clearly were other options than the two you've referred to. If the decision was being made purely on "sporting" grounds, other options probably should have been pursued.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatic
But I agree that the best of the all the imperfect options has been chosen, taking into account all the circumstances.
Meanwhile, the Foundation of Hearts are not taking this well. Banderson got their email as a loyal subscriber and has published it:
Foundation feel Hearts are 'under siege' with Scottish football now a 'laughing stock'
Fans group urge Tynecastle support to help club survive
5 hours ago
Monday, 11th May 2020, 3:59 pm
Hearts fans are being urged to back their club.
Foundation of Hearts today likened the current troubles at Tynecastle Park to being “under siege” as they rounded on Scottish Premiership chairmen who voted against league reconstruction.
Hearts supporters are being urged to back their club to help them survive both the coronavirus pandemic and potential relegation following the collapse of restructuring talks.
The Foundation, backed by more than 7,500 members, helped Hearts out of administration in 2013 and have donated more than £10million in funding since.
They delivered a scathing statement on the current crisis, accusing clubs who refused to entertain a league restructure of ruining “any potential for progress for our game”.
They also insisted Hearts will survive the difficulties, pointing to the strength and loyalty of their fanbase.
Chairman Stuart Wallace wrote to members: “I am writing to you to keep you up to date with the board’s position following recent developments.
“We have commented previously on the incompetence of the governing body regarding the infamous 10 April vote.
“This failing has, in our opinion, been compounded by a shambolic approach to governance, a wilful abandonment of a basic principle of the guardians of a membership organisation (namely a resolve to act with a duty of care for all its members), a depressing dearth of leadership at a time of crisis, an arrogant ‘our way or no way’ approach, lack of any respect or contrition, and abysmal communications. Scottish football is now widely regarded as a laughing stock, and fans deserve much, much better.
“On Friday, we heard the news that the reconstruction talks had been torpedoed by a group of six clubs who are currently in the Premier League – and this before they had received the written proposals which were being developed by the task force.
“It is as depressing as the attitude of the governing body that these clubs used the pandemic crisis to destroy any potential for progress for our game, stating that this was not the time to be looking at change or something new. We disagree.
“The Foundation of Hearts stands as a powerful example of how and why a crisis is exactly the time for imaginative thinking. At a moment when the situation could not possibly have been more challenging for our club, a group of fans, criticised by many doubters and nay-sayers, dared to think differently, to embrace change, to come up with an innovative plan, and to make it happen. Being bold in thought and action did not distract: it brought results.
“It is worth reflecting, too, that while on-field rivalries are the lifeblood of the game, we have also held to a principle that supporting others in our sport was the right thing to do and that it could contribute to the wider strength of our football community. For our part, we have been active in talking to fans’ groups from many clubs, outlining our strategies and offering advice. This has included clubs in the Premier League.
“From now, though, our unwavering focus will be to continue to deliver total support on behalf of Heart of Midlothian. First, we will back wholeheartedly the option of the club exploring further action should we indeed be expelled from the Premier League. And secondly, we will continue to take the message to supporters that – even more so now – the Foundation of Hearts is the envy of every other club in Scotland (and well beyond).
“Once again, through no fault of the fans, we are in a situation that feels close to being under siege. We urge everyone to stay strong and prove yet again that we have the right principles, the enduring commitment, and the sheer bloody-mindedness to ensure that our club prospers no matter what is thrown at us.
“It may be that not all clubs will survive this crisis. Thanks to you, Hearts will.”
I'm just trying to think how I'd feel if we were in their league position. I'd feel a deep sense of injustice about being relegated with 8 games to play...whether I'd be able to accept it as the "least worst option"...I doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by high bee
Under siege? If Hearts and this season's other failures just shut the f*** up and accept the (vast) majority decision, there'd be no argument whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Morons!
Agree. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
I love how FOH brag in their email that one of their principles is about ‘supporting others in our sport’, and then sign off with a dark prediction that some clubs may not survive this crisis.
Do they ever reflect on how this sounds?
It’s just like Budge claiming that her principles and morals led her to trying to find a better way forward for all clubs, while insisting that reconstruction be only a temporary fix.
It’s beyond parody.
It is the hearts fans fault though. They wanted Levein sacked and thats why they went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Banderson on twitter saying he's not a Jambo? I genuinely thought he was.
He's right...he's a fud not a dudQuote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Wait, but what other options?
80% of clubs voted to let SPFL end the season... it only appeared a close run thing because of a very convoluted voting process.
If there is a better way forward, why isn’t it being proposed and why doesn’t it have more support?
Hearts want a temporary reconstruction to save them from relegation, but have put no detailed proposal forward.
The Rangers are furious and pointing the finger at the SPFL, but have proposed nothing except demanding all games must be played in full stadiums... ie the very thing that is not allowed.
ICT are angry but haven’t proposed an alternative. Partick ditto.
It’s very easy to rant and rave, but much harder to lead and make good decisions.
All these tantrums are doing me in.
15,000 chips made at Hearts... One for each shoulder of FOH members 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Victim mentality personified. Laughable avoidance of any recognition, whatsoever, of their total incompetence and mismanagement in recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
That’s what Jambos keep saying to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
I don’t think there’s any other option though and I’m pretty sure that even if Hibs were in their shoes that I’d appreciate there’s nothing else that can be done....
When this all kicked off I actually agreed League Reconstruction on the face of it was the fairest way to resolve it, no relegation and the teams that should go up do. You only have to dig a tiny bit deeper to realise that’s just not practical to do it, without that option relegating the worst team up to that point is the only option.
I would think that whether it was Hibs, Hearts, Hamilton or Rangers at the bottom.
I’m also not against the teams that have been effected by the league season finishing early getting a ‘solidarity payment’, seems fair enough to me.
All their heads are popping off tonight. They know tomorrow could be d day. They’ll all be making up their own personal statements and firing them anywhere on net they can.
Of course not finishing a competition is not ideal but there are sporting precedents for this. For example, many a big golf tournament has been won by the leader after 54 holes when the last round couldn't be played, usually because of the weather. And one-day cricket matches are regularly abandoned half way through and decided on a calculation under the Duckworth Lewis method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Reconstruction is not fair though. The clubs have to carry the cost of the would be relegated teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
I wonder why F of H didn't propose reconstruction last year, or the year before etc etc etc? Meanwhile they accuse everyone else of acting in self interest. Its beyond parody!Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Like I say, deep down I would know it’s the least worst, however I would still be hurting massively, I’m not saying I would be blasé about it and I feel for the level headed Jambos. IMO the only ones who can display objective thinking at the moment are clubs like ours because we don’t stand to lose a great deal compared to being relegated without the chance to escape, whereas they are clinging to this injustice but cannot offer an alternative that doesn’t affect other teams negatively. The idea of there being no losers is wishful thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
I guess we will never know but I think we would, as a club, communicate our disdain but show more humility, professionalism and consideration for fairness to all (including the lower league teams). I think there was a actually quite a bit of support for restructuring in some capacity but the was they went about it quickly eroded any compassion.
If money was not an issue and a few other things i would have waited to finish this season and when we are all starting on the same points next season make that the season we make different shorter or whatever. I understand though way to many things going on but if it could have been done fanny about with the season when everyone is on equal footing. However hearts going down here is rather amusing.
If St Mirren were bottom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
What I still don't understand is the rush to vote on this in the first place. I believe it was for cash payments to clubs to help them survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
If that was the case, why wasnt an interim payment made to clubs based on their possible final positions?
Worst case scenario is all clubs get last place money (or the difference as I belive its staged). And seeing as the final payment wasn't due til after early May, when the leagues were due to finish, why not wait until end of April to vote instead of 1/2 weeks into the lockdown, when more would be known.
Cannot wait to see those losing, money-laundering, gullible, cheating, poppy-thieving, pension-plundering, tax-evading, moaning, hun-loving, greetin-faced chumps RELEGATED. Their incessent squeeeeealing is getting on my nerves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
But then, maybe hold off until the 16th just to make an extra special red letter day :greengrin
FOH would be right out there with a very similar statement hoping to save all of Scottish football by reconstructing the league for just the one season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
Surely the donators here should be all over their chairman and representatives to get a proper explanation about how it's all gone so wrong given the very substantial contributions they've made, and how it's been managed when the cash reaches the club.
There's a deflection going on here that's very similar to how Hearts themselves are trying to sidestep the reason they are the right club to relegate.
Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk
I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
That’s what I mean, on the face of it is an alternative solution, you don’t need to look into it far too realise why it would never work.
That’s your only 2 options and as reconstruction was never going to work, that only leaves relegation.
I’m sure 9 clubs already had been paid out to last place and Celtic, Rangers and Motherwell were paid out to 6th place based on that being the worst achievable position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeyhibee
The SPFL have said they couldn’t pay the last remaining amounts based on actual position unless it was finalised because then it would have to be loan payments and they couldn’t carry out credit checks etc on 42 clubs. Some clubs came out and said the main issue wasn’t actually the final payment as it was quite low but it was knowing who would be in the league with them next year so they could budget accordingly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeyhibee
All clubs were paid the amount corresponding to their worst possible final league position.
The money was required because of the lack of revenue due to there being no matches.
Which although a bit unlucky, is still fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
That's just more squealing but this time it's by what is now sounding like Hearts version of Club 1872.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
They'll survive fine yet Budge wants the SPFL to rip up the Sky contract (probably the one thing mostly likely to keep as many clubs as possible afloat) and renegotiate it at what would blatantly be many millions less than it currently is, just to save them.
Shameful gloating at the end saying some clubs won't survive. It's the sort of thing their fans have been spouting but for FoH to say it is embarrassing.
Absolute chancers and roasters, they only care about them no other club evidenced by their years of cheating - tell that to Dundee after you duped the authorities by stating “we are self sufficient” whilst ******g bust!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Never seen such blatant self interest from any club out with the OF, you could not mark their necks with a blow torch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by high bee
I posted something similar a week or so ago, credit check on sevco or Hertz gonna give SPFL clear comfort to lend/advance?????
Would love the league to be called on the 19th. The anniversary of them killing us as a club.
Karma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakeyhibee
You make a good point and maybe the SPFL board wanted to get a clear decision on record as they could all this rancour coming. The vote looked decisive but the fall out has been awful.
But... that decision looks more and more correct with each passing day. It’s only the wealthiest leagues in Europe who still seem to think they can complete this league season.
Calling it on the 21st wouldn't be too bad either.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
If the decision was being made purely on sporting grounds, then reconstruction (temporary or permanent) would have been an option...and arguably the better one. That option hasn't been pursued for reasons other than sporting reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Having them relegated officially and The Rangers told that their enquiry plan has been thrown out on the same day (today) would be a hilarious double whammy.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
We could call it the Glorious Twelfth
Reconstructing to save teams from relegation when the rules state they should be relegated wouldn't be for sporting reasons. The rules of the game haven't suddenly been changed because of COVID-19. They're just being applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
The issue is no reconstruction was going to please all clubs so to me and the clubs the current set up seemed the fairest. Team at top win the league team at bottom go down. It is harsh on clubs like Thistle, Hearts, Falkirk etc but given the current circumstance not sure there was any viable option especially with a new tv deal starting in August.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Agreed, there are no viable options left other than relegation and limited promotion based on sporting merit (per UEFA). Hearts, Partick etc know full well there are no other options left, so threatening legal action isn't going to change a thing. IMO, all they want now is some hush money.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
The reconstruction options would benefit some clubs (Hearts, Partick and Stranraer) but would have punished others with no promotion (Clyde, Cover Rangers etc.). The point is that, no matter the course of action taken, someone was going to lose out. The fairest option, if no matches can be played this season, would be to end the league as it stand. No play-offs as no matches can be played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Also the lower leagues voted in favour of reconstruction so why not do so in those leagues? It's as if Hearts are only really interested in restructure of the top league...
Allisbarry certainly getting his money’s worth out of Deans 😂
https://twitter.com/edinburghsport/s...215312386?s=21
https://twitter.com/edinburghsport/s...084125189?s=21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Ok, but again... Budge was given a task force and her requested 2-3 weeks to come up with a proposal. She came up with nothing.
How can the clubs vote in favour of a vague idea?
The FOH is an example of why a crisis is the time for imaginative thinking? They do realise this is a global health crisis that’s killing hundreds of thousands of people and not the administration of an overspending football team? Imagine likening the two situations. Self important bellends.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
Clyde weren’t losing out on promotion. They were being relegated from 7th place with an 18 point cushion from the automatic relegation spot. Budge of course thought that was absolutely fine though as long as Hearts would be safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxburghHibs
Taking self-interest as the starting point for all clubs in this (particularly given the legal duties of the individual boards), the real trick is to work out what is the best way to get the best deal for your club.
This is where Hearts, ICT and others have blown it. The leagues were always likely to be called but you are allowed to look for change that helps you out. Feeding the press with very spun stories, reading out confidential WhatsApp messages on national radio, making it clear that reconstruction is a short term measure to stop you getting relegated and sharing a bed with the butt cheek from Govan have alienated lots of other clubs.
My thoughts are that this will end with no reconstruction and solidarity/ compensation payments for SPFL clubs that are relegated/ missed out on playoffs. Difficulty for those clubs in the negotiations is that they have dragged the game through the mud and now have to convince others to give up money.
Enquiry/ No enquiry will just impact the timeline.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
All connected to Hearts are now lying to themselves, which isn't a good spot to be in.
You chance your arm so far with these things and see what you can get away with to save yourself. When you start getting into believing your own nonsense then you are in trouble.
This will probably harm their recovery. They need to accept certain things about the way they operate before they can address them and sort themselves out.
If they all actually believe that their situation has been imposed on them they will probably redouble their efforts to prove that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Personally I resent the idea of cash being taken from the SPFL (ie us) to be given as a solidarity payment to Hearts, who have shown nothing but naked self-interest throughout this crisis and accuse us of being sanctimonious to hide their own failings... but you are right, this is probably the way it will go.
So many people convincing them that they need to take this all the way to court, it’s going to put whoever it is that has to burst their bubble in a hell of a spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
There isn’t a chance this is going all the way to court, everyone being whipped into a frenzy about doing so isn’t healthy for them. As you say, a bit self reflection from them in terms of how they got into this position would serve them far better.
True but they will never ever state that the problem is of their own making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sporting reasons and what is in the Rules are not necessarily the same thing, but maybe that's just my interpretation. In any event, the current circumstances are likely going to require some of the Rules tobe rewritten. It would seem strange to say some rules can be rewritten in exceptional circumstances, but others can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estupendo
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Reconstruction would have been possible by allowing promotion but preventing relegation. There are good reasons why that didn't happen, but they are primarily financial.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoxburghHibs
I'm not suggesting they could have, although my understanding was the circulation of the reconstruction paper was pre-empted by the Prem clubs saying they wouldn't support any reconstruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
The task force's main problem was (presumably) the financial obstacles, not the sporting ones.
If they really wanted to look after people in sport they could start by diverting their funds to their creditors. Or is is it only "vermin" like STF who pay the creditors because it's the right thing to do?
It wouldn’t have if we went with the 14-14-14 or 14-14-16 models that were suggested. 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th in League One would all have been relegated to make up the 14 or 16.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Not sure about this but I assume any solidarity payment would go to a vote too? If that’s the case, the way these clubs have behaved they will have lost any sympathy from the remaining clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Hearts want compensated but are paying Boyce and Naismith £6k plus per week?
Agreed, but those weren't the only reconstruction models available. If reconstruction had been implemented on a purely sporting basis, a much simpler change was all that was required.Quote:
Originally Posted by calumhibee1
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy74
Pretty much exactly why Rangers mk 2 have struggled so much in replacing Rangers mk 1.
Why tamper with something that is working and is favoured by the vast majority of clubs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Why also risk any disagreement with our broadcaster (Sky) on a deal (new, starting August 2020)?
For what, so as not to relegate the team who have been the worst in the division over the last year?
If there is really to be solidarity payments made to the poppy thieves to compensate for the shock of relegation it should come at a price. They need their wings clipped; ok here’s your GTF dosh but on the condition that you STFU now about perceived injustices, corruption, bullying, conspiracies or any other pish they’ve been whining about
Should we also be entitled to a solidarity payment? We lost out on c130k by voting to end the season and dropping a position. As far as I can tell all we are actually the only club that can genuinely say they’ve acted ‘in the best interest of the game’.
Pretty much sums it up. If St Mirren had lost to Hearts you wouldn't have heard a peep out of the Budgie.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeerealist
The 3M figure being thrown about won’t happen, I would have thought something around 150k added to the parachute payments will be about the best they can hope for. Would be surprised if much over 400-500k was used for compensation across all clubs. All speculation on my part but had they dealt with it differently, not rolling over but by linking the loss of the sporting opportunity to a solidarity payment they would have probably got a better result when the negotiations take place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the huns were in Celtic's position and Gerrard was about to secure his 1st trophy and Hearts had beaten St Mirren, could you imagine the same furore about ending the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
The reason to do it would be not to relegate teams based on their performance over 30 matches of a 38-match season.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibeerealist
The reasons not to do it are predominantly financial.
I understand there's no perfect solution, but my main point (several pages back now) is that it's harsh to relegate the relegated teams in these circumstances.
It's sad to see sporting competitions being driven primarily by financial concerns, but I'm aware that's the modern reality (which, judging by your username, you'll probably agree with). :greengrin
Such as?Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
The bottom league had already said the only reconstruction they would vote for was three leagues. No other format would be considered.
Clyde and others then said they would not support that.
Rushed reconstruction was never going to work.
It was not only the Premiership that rejected the plans even if saying that suits your and Hearts agenda.
Positions 7-10 in League 1 (Clyde have an 18 point cushion on bottom) would find themselves in the bottom tier as would Cove Rangers who should be promoted. The models suggested seem far more unfair to them than relegating the teams in the automatic relegation spots. (Hearts, Partick, Stranraer). So I totally agree that there is no perfect solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
So can you please demonstrate how we could avoid relegating any team who hasn’t completed the season? This is not a jibe BTW, if there’s a way to do it then it should be done. I can’t think of a way and my feeling is that certain clubs would be happy to whitewash over the injustice for multiple ‘wee’ teams provided their team is okay.
Budge: Tell me Mr Lawyer, do you think we've got a good case?Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Lawyer (whose livelihood depends on fees from taking on cases and whose business has been suffering very badly due to the Covid-19 crisis): Yes, you have a very good chance of winning.
Budge: Will you do it on a no win no fee basis?
Lawyer: Ah...em....well...💡....I'm actually a Hibby so maybe you'd be better trying Smith, Cardigan, Fudsworth, Creditor, Plaza (née Piazza) and Rover solicitors next door.
I actually agree that it's harsh to relegate a team when the season hasn't been played out in full. Where I disagree is that decisions have been pretty financial. While finance has undoubtedly played a part, I think a lot of people are overlooking the actual practicalities of trying to complete the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
IMHO, based on what we currently know, finishing this season is impossible for a whole host of reasons.
With that knowledge, the only option really is to ends the league season as it stands, and accept that there will be some winners and losers from the situation. Ultimately, in 8 games' time we'd have had some winners and losers, such is the nature of sport.
Reconstruction as a sticking plaster for the wounds of the relegated clubs isn't a good enough reason to do it, and trying to find a solution that suits all parties (which it would have to do, to meet the sporting integrity and fairness criteria those that shouted for reconstruction hinged their argument on) with a matter of weeks was never going to happen.
If reconstruction is going to happen then it should be well thought out, considered and beneficial to everyone.
Ideally we'd see Hearts relegated after all the games were played, but that's not going to happen. What's going ahead as things stand is the least unfair option across all clubs that there is available, whilst still being practical.
We certainly are the only club to have actually voted against our short term self interest, in the long term interest of the greater good. Given that 3 of St J's 4 games were away against us & the uglies we were long odds on to be 6th at the break.Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Craig75
[QUOTE=Future17;6169964]”The reason to do it would be not to relegate teams based on their performance over 30 matches of a 38-match season.”
The flip side of that argument would be, is it fair that a side who have been dreadful over 30 games, odds on to get relegated(form and previous history of 10 out of the last 11 seasons the team bottom at this stage go down), won 4 games out of 30 and now require 2 wins in their last 8 to get off the bottom(assuming nobody around them picks up a single point, in which case they would require more than 2 wins from 8). Why should a world pandemic spare them from what was undoubtedly coming? That’s not sporting integrity either.
Na, that can’t be right. Budgie said so.Quote:
Originally Posted by brog
Anyone who watched Hearts play over the course of the season, read the league rules and looked at the league table will agree that relegating Hearts is not harsh. It's fair, deserved and the rules dictate they have to go.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Estupendo
I’m finding myself unable to find it harsh in any way.
I don't have an agenda as such, just a point of view.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
As I've said a few times now, there's no perfect solution and, for the avoidance of doubt, I do think it seems like the best option was chosen from all the bad options, taking into account all circumstances. However, I think it seems as though the main motivation in not proceeding with reconstruction is financial. I'm not criticising that, as that's the modern reality, but I think it's come at the cost of sporting fairness.
To answer your question though, if the desire was there to find a purely sporting solution, there are several possible options, from which we'd again have to pick the least worst. For example, we could have had a 14-10-10-10 structure for 1 or more seasons. It's far from perfect but, on a sporting basis, I think it's better than relegating teams for their performance over 80% of the season.
I've touched on this above. I 100% agree with Clyde's position. I would have them remain in League 1 which would still be the second bottom tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by high bee
I agree with most of that - it's certainly not practical to finish the season. I don't think the practicalities of temporary reconstruction are relatively minor (purely on sporting terms). The largest downside would be likely be reduced promotion opportunities in the short term, but at least teams would know what they're competing for at the start of the season and the outcome would dependon their performance across the full season, as it should.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
As much as we all hoped it was coming, it was far from "undoubted". As discussed previously, loads of teams have gotten themselves out of worse relegation trouble than Hearts were in with 8 games to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by NadeAteMyLunch!
The closest thing to nobody suffering that I can think of is a 16-16-12 set up because then you’re only left with a dilemma over Cove Rangers vs Stranraer as all other teams stay in their current tier in the pyramid or move up one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
Stranraer could be offered a healthy parachute payment which, given the prize money at that level, would be a drop in the ocean when spread amongst all the other members.
Problems would occur if they still didn’t accept it or the other clubs around them complain about them getting a higher cash payment. Then there’s the TV, sponsorship and prize money debate but ultimately if the clubs vote it through it’s the closest thing to looking after all clubs that certain clubs keep banging on about.
The closest thing to nobody suffering is 12-12-10-10 but that option wasn’t pursued because of Hearts self-interest as they were the only team to lose out in that scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by high bee
Good point and that makes more sense if you believe that a 12 team league is better than 16 (which I do).Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Correct. Wasn't even talked about and I think that may have gone through. It would be the only scenario that I would have cited for. But as you say hearts are only interested in the greater good of Scottish football so it wasn't mentioned. Sorry I meant the greater good of heart of Midlothian footballQuote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Why is 12-12-10-10 better than 14-10-10-10? I'm not saying I disagree, just wondering about the logic.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalGreen
Why should no one suffer?Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Teams get relegated every year.
Are relegated teams going to suffer even more due to Covid?
Relatively, no. Everyone is going to suffer on that front.
Would Hearts have accepted reconstruction with a caveat that as the club in bottom, they only qualify for say 75% (actual amount needs a financial modeller to work out) of whatever income they earn in the next season which would ensure the financial impact is spread across everyone.
Nope, thought not, they wanted to finish top 6 and be better off
MoneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Future17
The Sky sports deal is only to show SPL games plus play offs
Why do you think Budge is saying 3/4 million losses
You are putting two more teams to dilute the Pot Cormack at Aberdeen said this would take 600k from Aberdeeen share
Championship is BBC and Premier sports have a deal also
Ian Murray in his interview said it was right to end the season now but the only fair way was for league reconstruction.
In other words, we don’t want to finish the season as we will get relegated anyway.
I think the jambos quite like the injustice. They know they are odds ok for relegation anyway, this way they can invoke the famous macrame battalion spirit, man the barricades and all that pish. They will thrive of the injustice for years
Its all just deflection, they should go down, not harsh or unfair, no problem with looking at some form of recalibration/reconstruction sometime in the future once football is going again, this is no time for deflection as more important things going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Estupendo
I feel that some on here perhaps have there own agenda, the BBC for sure has not mentioned one thing to support any opinion that is not for a no change.
No two ways about it get them relegated and then look at the set up once the game is being played, and some kind of league set up is in place.
Not harsh, not unfair just the way it is.
:agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree::agree:
Agree with that. Still think some compensation could be given to those most adversely impacted - Partick, Hearts etc funded from the new TV deal. No, it's not perfect and won't appease them, but at least it would show some empathy for the position they find themselves in. But for the grace , St M could easily have found themselves in bottom slot, Partick could quite possibly have escaped with their game in hand. To ask those clubs to pick up the full cost of relegation is harsh .Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
The position Hearts have found themselves in is bottom of the league at the end of the season. They don't deserve extra money and they would only waste it anyway. They certainly wouldn't use it to pay their employees what they owe them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onion
Parachute payment I think is £500k first season. IF we put it to a vote in the SPL maybe clubs could agree a 10% Solidarity payment of say 10% (£50k), this could pay 2 months wages for Bryce & Naismith at their rate post wage cut. That would help their finances greatly over the close season and more importantly, enable them to retain two vastly important members of their squad, a very generous gesture indeed from the football community!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium