The Trans Rights Debate

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

From being accused of "bigging up" India Willoughby one day(not you), to being given the all clear on my transphobic questioning the next.

Only on Hibs.net

😂

Have a good day.

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You see that's what working constructively together does...

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Originally Posted by archie

You see that's what working constructively together does...

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I'll leave you and James to get a room. 👍

It's just a thought but did Nicola Sturgeon not appear on QT because she knew that Ella Whelan was going to question the logic of gender identity politics? Jenny Gilruth who stood in for her was tied in knots, the audience could see this and began groaning when she tried to evade Ella Whelan's question, and were cheering Ella Whelan on, for this to happen at the Kelvin Hall shows that gender identity politics just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

It's just a thought but did Nicola Sturgeon not appear on QT because she knew that Ella Whelan was going to question the logic of gender identity politics? Jenny Gilruth who stood in for her was tied in knots, the audience could see this and began groaning when she tried to evade Ella Whelan's question, and were cheering Ella Whelan on, for this to happen at the Kelvin Hall shows that gender identity politics just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

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I watched QT on iplayer this morning and I don't think anyone came out of the debate, and particularly that exchange, looking great.

Whelan came across as a bit of a bully and very much old school in her opinions on sex and sexuality. Gilruth was evasive and either couldn't or wouldn't answer the question asked. I suppose 'what is a woman?' has become a fully loaded question now though and one regularly used by both sides in the debate to further their own agenda and attempt to discredit and/or embarrass the person they are asking.

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Originally Posted by 147lothian

It's just a thought but did Nicola Sturgeon not appear on QT because she knew that Ella Whelan was going to question the logic of gender identity politics? Jenny Gilruth who stood in for her was tied in knots, the audience could see this and began groaning when she tried to evade Ella Whelan's question, and were cheering Ella Whelan on, for this to happen at the Kelvin Hall shows that gender identity politics just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

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Don’t think the FM ever does Question time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Don’t think the FM ever does Question time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Exactly. Last time a sitting PM was on it?

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Originally Posted by Glory Lurker

Exactly. Last time a sitting PM was on it?

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She's not a PM.

If anybody is in Glasgow today.



https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/...baret-furries/



George Square 11am

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

If anybody is in Glasgow today.



https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/...baret-furries/



George Square 11am

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Have you worked out what a legitimate trans woman is yet? It's a term you used.

If the GRA became law how would you know who is legitimate and not legitimate?

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Originally Posted by Crunchie

She's not a PM.

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Thanks for pointing that out.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

If anybody is in Glasgow today.



https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/01/...baret-furries/



George Square 11am

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What are 'furries'?

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I watched QT on iplayer this morning and I don't think anyone came out of the debate, and particularly that exchange, looking great.

Whelan came across as a bit of a bully and very much old school in her opinions on sex and sexuality. Gilruth was evasive and either couldn't or wouldn't answer the question asked. I suppose 'what is a woman?' has become a fully loaded question now though and one regularly used by both sides in the debate to further their own agenda and attempt to discredit and/or embarrass the person they are asking.

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Is it really 'old school' to point out biological fact?

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Originally Posted by He's here!

What are 'furries'?

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People that identify as animals I think.

But I see that article links to a trans woman called Beth who seems to be quite an influencer for the recent trans rights but can only be described as an extremist. (Photos of her holding knives etc) She is close to Maggie Chapman (what a surprise) and stood for the Greens. Some of the history of Beth makes for some disturbing reading so I won't link to it. I will repeat what I have said before this is in the main being driven by extremists who have captured the Government. We see the results in the recent polls.

I wonder if the SNP will have second thoughts about challenging the S35, surely the sensible thing to do now is admit it went wrong and everyone needs to come together and work out a compromise.

Joanna Cherry

"It’s time to admit that feminist criticisms of self-ID & the #GRRBill were right, eat some humble pie & sort this mess out before it does any more damage to the reputation of our party, parliament & the cause of Scotland’s independence"

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I watched QT on iplayer this morning and I don't think anyone came out of the debate, and particularly that exchange, looking great.

Whelan came across as a bit of a bully and very much old school in her opinions on sex and sexuality. Gilruth was evasive and either couldn't or wouldn't answer the question asked. I suppose 'what is a woman?' has become a fully loaded question now though and one regularly used by both sides in the debate to further their own agenda and attempt to discredit and/or embarrass the person they are asking.

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:agree: Just got back from a week in Austria and watched it about an hour ago. Can't help feeling she sounded like someone arguing the sun rotated around the earth.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

:agree: Just got back from a week in Austria and watched it about an hour ago. Can't help feeling she sounded like someone arguing the sun rotated around the earth.

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Wheelan or Gilruth?

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Originally Posted by Skol

Wheelan or Gilruth?

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Whelan

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Whelan

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For stating the obvious (that Bryson isn't a woman)?

https://womansplaceuk.org/2022/06/22...-posie-parker/

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Originally Posted by He's here!

For stating the obvious (that Bryson isn't a woman)?

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No, for her prehistoric opinions on biological sex.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

No, for her prehistoric opinions on biological sex.

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I guess we'll never know what prehistoric opinions were on biological sex. If Whelan had been questioning gender identity (entirely different) she might have deserved some criticism but she didn't. The biological reality of men and women is long established. You can be a trans-woman or a trans-man, but you will always be biologically female or male.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I guess we'll never know what prehistoric opinions were on biological sex. If Whelan had been questioning gender identity (entirely different) she might have deserved some criticism but she didn't. The biological reality of men and women is long established. You can be a trans-woman or a trans-man, but you will always be biologically female or male.

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Like I said, it reminds me of those set in the belief that the sun rotates around the earth or that the earth is flat. Modern science has proven that sex is not binary, instead it's a spectrum that recognises that x and y chromosomes are not the be all and end all of determining biological sex. It'll take a while for the dinosaurs to become extinct, but their days are definitely numbered.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I guess we'll never know what prehistoric opinions were on biological sex. If Whelan had been questioning gender identity (entirely different) she might have deserved some criticism but she didn't. The biological reality of men and women is long established. You can be a trans-woman or a trans-man, but you will always be biologically female or male.

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So you don't recognise the concept of intersex?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Like I said, it reminds me of those set in the belief that the sun rotates around the earth or that the earth is flat. Modern science has proven that sex is not binary, instead it's a spectrum that recognises that x and y chromosomes are not the be all and end all of determining biological sex. It'll take a while for the dinosaurs to become extinct, but their days are definitely numbered.

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No trans-person can change their biological sex. It's hardly flat earth talk to acknowledge that.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I guess we'll never know what prehistoric opinions were on biological sex. If Whelan had been questioning gender identity (entirely different) she might have deserved some criticism but she didn't. The biological reality of men and women is long established. You can be a trans-woman or a trans-man, but you will always be biologically female or male.

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Here is Ella Whelan chair of a discussion on How we talk to kids about gender, the panel includes two trans people Debbie Hayton and Katy Jon Went. It is very informative especially when debates like this don't happen very often, Debbie Hayton makes a great point on how irresponsible it is to tell kids they can change their sex at a young age.

https://worldwrite.org.uk/video/girl...s-abot-gender/

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

So you don't recognise the concept of intersex?

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Yes of course I do but somebody being born with atypical genitalia bears no relation to claims that trans-women are women in every sense.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

Yes of course I do but somebody being born with atypical genitalia bears no relation to claims that trans-women are women in every sense.

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OK. That doesn't seem to correspond with your statement that one is "always biologically male or female".

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Originally Posted by He's here!

No trans-person can change their biological sex. It's hardly flat earth talk to acknowledge that.

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They're not changing sex, they're just correcting the label they we're incorrectly given in most cases. The term "sex change" is probably misleading.

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Originally Posted by James310

Have you worked out what a legitimate trans woman is yet? It's a term you used.

If the GRA became law how would you know who is legitimate and not legitimate?

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Surely you are eventually going to run out of ways to ask the same question over and over again.:greengrin

This legislation will be UK wide sooner then you probably think and people will not be tying themselves in knots trying to define anything, as always it will be what a reasonable person thinks.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Surely you are eventually going to run out of ways to ask the same question over and over again.:greengrin

This legislation will be UK wide sooner then you probably think and people will not be tying themselves in knots trying to define anything, as always it will be what a reasonable person thinks.

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If only I could get an answer. The thing is if anyone answers it ties them in knots like Jenny Gilruth on QT.

I think Keir Starmer would be a fool to ignore what's happening in Scotland and whatever is done in Westminster will not look the same as what is up here, for example he has already said 16/17 yr olds is to young. He will look and learn.

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Originally Posted by James310

If only I could get an answer. The thing is if anyone answers it ties them in knots like Jenny Gilruth on QT.

I think Keir Starmer would be a fool to ignore what's happening in Scotland and whatever is done in Westminster will not look the same as what is up here, for example he has already said 16/17 yr olds is to young. He will look and learn.

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You just got one :greengrin