Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

The agreed wage cuts mean they will have the money to see the season out, but it will be interesting to learn what clauses the players have insisted upon for their protection. The cuts will only be temporary and many players will have to go in the transfer window, unless the magical new buyer comes forward.

Overall, though it keeps the wolves from the door for now, does this news actually diminish the danger of liquidation at some point, and, if so, by what degree?

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I am friends with a man whose son is a "youth player" at Hunbrox and am only quoting what he told me this afternoon .
It would seem that the hold up has been due to a number of senior players wanting a clause giving them a " free transfer" at season end in return for taking a 75% wage cut.
This would allow them as " free agents" to negotiate massive " signing on " fees due to there being no transfer fee involved .
If this is correct it would leave Rankers with fewer assets to sell in next window

Please " don't shoot the piano player etc . " I am only repeating what I was told :greengrin

P.S. This is the second source I have heard this story from

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Originally Posted by killie-hibby

Tonights Sportsound was even more vomit inducing than usual. Continual references to todays developments as "a good news story" "Rangers are a family club" "some supporters just dont get it that Rangers bring money to their clubs,just look at how much Dunfernline got". They (Traynor,Dodds,Young et al) express their own emotions while conventiently abdicating the journalists role of reporting factually.

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Did nobody point out that Dunfermline would have made more money out of Hibs visit on 14th January.

Roughly the same gate with a fraction of the policing and stewarding charges !

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Originally Posted by down-the-slope

It seems from reports over last couple of hours that Ticketus are interested in buying - maybe as part of consortioum - the club....:rolleyes:

Darn it...that has a ring of potential...can they not just go bust:grr:

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For potential, I would read "desperation" on the part of Ticketus.

I can't see what they would get out of it.... unless their part of the deal is to buy the properties, and rent them to the footbal club.

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Originally Posted by jdships

I am friends with a man whose son is a "youth player" at Hunbrox and am only quoting what he told me this afternoon .
It would seem that the hold up has been due to a number of senior players wanting a clause giving them a " free transfer" at season end in return for taking a 75% wage cut.
This would allow them as " free agents" to negotiate massive " signing on " fees due to there being no transfer fee involved .
If this is correct it would leave Rankers with fewer assets to sell in next window

Please " don't shoot the piano player etc . " I am only repeating what I was told :greengrin

P.S. This is the second source I have heard this story from

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I thought one of the admins had actually said this, no?

Maybe not... maybe I read it on :hnet:, which is becoming the only reliable source of news these days.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I thought one of the admins had actually said this, no?

Maybe not... maybe I read it on :hnet:, which is becoming the only reliable source of news these days.

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I haven't heard it on radio/tv but could be and why not if it is true !!:wink:
My other source is the more reliable - a Glasgow taxi driver :greengrin
Remember only Taxi cab drivers and people who cut your hair really know what is going in this country :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

For potential, I would read "desperation" on the part of Ticketus.

I can't see what they would get out of it.... unless their part of the deal is to buy the properties, and rent them to the footbal club.

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Maybe - or it could be they see the chance to make even more dosh - cut out the middle man and sell all tickets / hospitality etc with the charges for payment plans / admin etc etc -they could take a lot of money out the business for legitamate fees & charges

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Originally Posted by down-the-slope

Maybe - or it could be they see the chance to make even more dosh - cut out the middle man and sell all tickets / hospitality etc with the charges for payment plans / admin etc etc -they could take a lot of money out the business for legitamate fees & charges

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My thoughts exactly when I first read the story and could have massive implications for RFC . :agree:
Why would this type of company want to get involved in a FC unless they were sure of sowing up a watertight deal to make money ?
Think there is " a lot of water to flow under the bridge " before this saga comes to an end .
Could be HMR&C have a big part to play in the final outcome unless we get a " whitewash /fudge " :rolleyes:

http://www.jeffwinterentertainmentan...12/2012001.php

WTF? :confused:

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Originally Posted by jdships

My thoughts exactly when I first read the story and could have massive implications for RFC . :agree:
Why would this type of company want to get involved in a FC unless they were sure of sowing up a watertight deal to make money ?
Think there is " a lot of water to flow under the bridge " before this saga comes to an end .
Could be HMR&C have a big part to play in the final outcome unless we get a " whitewash /fudge " :rolleyes:

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First of all, Ticketus want to protect the investment they have in RFC. They have invested £24m, and would expect to get double that back. So it makes sense to do what they can to keep RFC going.

However, it seems that they are spending more money than that, if the reports are to be believed. This seems to be outwith their normal activities. According to their website,:-

What does Ticketus do?

Ticketus buys tickets in advance for events.
It buys tickets in bulk from the organisation putting on or hosting an event in advance, and then collects the proceeds when those tickets are sold to the public. These events can be football matches using season tickets, but also other sports and entertainment businesses.

So... what is their involvement in the Blue Knights? I think that, as an investment company, they will be providing funds only. Nothing else. They know, as an investment company, that running a football club is rarely profitable. So they will put a substantial amount of cash up, perhaps in return for shares, but at a fairly high interest rate and with a clearly-defined exit strategy within, say 5 years.

That way, they get to keep an eye on the ST's, and make a decent return on their investment and, if they have them, a profit on their shares.

Of course, those dreaded acronyms BTC and HMRC are the Octopus ( see what I did there?) in the water. And, I am not sure if they will be able to find Stranraer and Peterhead.

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Originally Posted by Bighoose

http://www.jeffwinterentertainmentan...12/2012001.php

WTF? :confused:

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So, £5k for a Corporate Package. 20,000 of them, and the Huns are sorted.

:rolleyes:

I love the bit about re-naming Murray Park. Yammish revisionism anyone?

Email received this evening from Octopus

9 March 2012 Statement on Rangers Football Club
The “Blue Knights”, led by Paul Murray, today confirm that they are finalising an offer for Rangers Football Club (“the Club”) in partnership with fans’ representatives (from the Rangers Supporters Assembly, the Rangers Supporters Association and the Rangers Supporters Trust) and Ticketus (together, “the Consortium”).
The members of the Consortium are united in their belief that a collaborative approach is essential in securing the Club’s future through a CVA, thereby achieving a fair and fast resolution that will put the Club on a secure financial footing. Through a CVA rather than liquidation, the Club will benefit from being able to qualify for future European competition and access the significant revenues associated with this. Preserving this revenue stream, and the Club’s 140 year old legacy, is paramount and in the best interests of all parties.
Paul Murray said:
“I believe that the Blue Knights, working in collaboration with the fans and Ticketus, are able to deliver an attractive solution that will see the Club emerge from administration with a clear plan for the future that will bring the financial stability that the Club needs.”
“We firmly believe that a CVA is the best way forwards and we are working hard to offer a solution that will enable this to happen. As the Administrators have stated, the alternative route of putting the Club into liquidation is much less attractive for creditors, supporters and players, with its capacity to destroy value. Under current UEFA rules, a football club is banned from European competition for three years in the event of liquidation. Taking this route would have a significant impact on Rangers’ future revenues and the overall financial viability of the Club, so it is something we want to avoid.”
Ticketus stated:
“We believe that the Blue Knights understand very clearly what needs to be done to stabilise the Club, and represent the most attractive long-term solution to Rangers’ financial situation. We are therefore backing their bid and will be an active partner, contributing to a successful outcome. We believe working alongside the Blue Knights and fans’ representatives offers the best chance of the Club surviving and becoming a viable business.”
The Consortium is confident that the Club can achieve financial stability through appropriate restructuring and the appointment of a new and experienced board with a sensible business plan.
The Consortium have spoken to the Administrators today to tell them that they will be working together to buy the club out of the CVA process and will be meeting the Administrators to discuss the proposed deal in detail on Monday.
The Consortium will continue to work with the Administrators as it finalises its bid in order to bring a swift resolution for the Club, its fans and employees.
For all media enquiries, please contact:

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Originally Posted by PatHead

Email received this evening from Octopus

9 March 2012 Statement on Rangers Football Club
The “Blue Knights”, led by Paul Murray, today confirm that they are finalising an offer for Rangers Football Club (“the Club”) in partnership with fans’ representatives (from the Rangers Supporters Assembly, the Rangers Supporters Association and the Rangers Supporters Trust) and Ticketus (together, “the Consortium”).
The members of the Consortium are united in their belief that a collaborative approach is essential in securing the Club’s future through a CVA, thereby achieving a fair and fast resolution that will put the Club on a secure financial footing. Through a CVA rather than liquidation, the Club will benefit from being able to qualify for future European competition and access the significant revenues associated with this. Preserving this revenue stream, and the Club’s 140 year old legacy, is paramount and in the best interests of all parties.
Paul Murray said:
“I believe that the Blue Knights, working in collaboration with the fans and Ticketus, are able to deliver an attractive solution that will see the Club emerge from administration with a clear plan for the future that will bring the financial stability that the Club needs.”
“We firmly believe that a CVA is the best way forwards and we are working hard to offer a solution that will enable this to happen. As the Administrators have stated, the alternative route of putting the Club into liquidation is much less attractive for creditors, supporters and players, with its capacity to destroy value. Under current UEFA rules, a football club is banned from European competition for three years in the event of liquidation. Taking this route would have a significant impact on Rangers’ future revenues and the overall financial viability of the Club, so it is something we want to avoid.”
Ticketus stated:
“We believe that the Blue Knights understand very clearly what needs to be done to stabilise the Club, and represent the most attractive long-term solution to Rangers’ financial situation. We are therefore backing their bid and will be an active partner, contributing to a successful outcome. We believe working alongside the Blue Knights and fans’ representatives offers the best chance of the Club surviving and becoming a viable business.”
The Consortium is confident that the Club can achieve financial stability through appropriate restructuring and the appointment of a new and experienced board with a sensible business plan.
The Consortium have spoken to the Administrators today to tell them that they will be working together to buy the club out of the CVA process and will be meeting the Administrators to discuss the proposed deal in detail on Monday.
The Consortium will continue to work with the Administrators as it finalises its bid in order to bring a swift resolution for the Club, its fans and employees.
For all media enquiries, please contact:

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Meanwhile, Hector is sitting in Whitehall saying "that will be shining bright".

I see that as quite arrogant, that they don't even acknowledge the Revenue. If I were Hector, I would be insulted, and even surer of my stance.

Unless, of course, Hector is a mason.

Mr Crops

With Ticketus up with the Blue Knights would this be enough to carry a Voluntary Agreement?

Worried now.

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Originally Posted by PatHead

Mr Crops

With Ticketus up with the Blue Knights would this be enough to carry a Voluntary Agreement?

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Ticketus aren't a creditor, apart from the £6m they are owed for this season's ST's. (see a couple of pages back for the explanation, from Caversham Greens).

However, even if they were seen as a creditor for the full £24m...... HMRC are still at £15m. (arguably, for the other £49m as well, albeit it that is under appeal in the BTC).

If we just look at the £15m for HMRC.... assuming that they block any CVA, if that is more than 25% of total creditors, then the CVA won't pass.

Therefore total creditors have to be more than £60m. for a CVA to pass. £39m between HMRC and Ticketus. ... leaves £21m.....will there be that much? :confused: I don't think there will be.

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Originally Posted by green glory

Worried now.

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Don't be, GG. We still have three trump cards:-

HMRC

BTC

Ticketus still need to get payment for their 25,000 ST's every year for the next 3/4 years.

Edit:- There's a fourth, the SPL.

Cheer up :agree:

Re your comments suppose Ticketus are as much a creditor as Hearts as payment only due on never, never...........Joking apart I will be in touch with Octupus re clients I have with them. I will need an awful good explanation as to logic behind investment or they could lose a couple of large investments.

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Originally Posted by PatHead

Re your comments suppose Ticketus are as much a creditor as Hearts as payment only due on never, never...........Joking apart I will be in touch with Octupus re clients I have with them. I will need an awful good explanation as to logic behind investment or they could lose a couple of large investments.

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Ticketus are a deferred creditor, even more deferred than Hearts. As Cav explained, they only really become a "current" creditor when the ST's are sold, at the start of each season. I think Hearts would be entitled to see themselves as a creditor "now", as the event that triggered the debt, the transfer of Wallace, has already taken place.

As for Octopus, I would be very interested in hearing what they say, without breaking confidentiality of course. Despite my guess-take on it a few posts ago, I am still unclear as to "why" they're doing it.

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Originally Posted by Bighoose

http://www.jeffwinterentertainmentan...12/2012001.php

WTF? :confused:

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He had that closed down did he not, in jan after some of his blog posts. If anyone is trying to sum up a typical Hun there's your man. Bigoted, small minded ****bag!!!

So they want to invest in a company based on a non existing CVA when they don't know its liabilities or don't know who "owns"its assets or in some cases where they are.Sounds good to me I wonder if I can chip in some of the Ancient Hibee millions.



Apropos of this I see I will not be able to use Pritchards the Bournemouth stockbrokers to make my investment for me as they've folded-think Mr.Whyte may have a job staying ahead of the posse on that one.

If Dundee United hadn't beaten Rangers, then der hun would have been looking forward to a bumper pay-day this weekend that might have helped keep them afloat. On the eve of a weekend of cup footie, I will sink one tonight and salute the Arabs.

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Originally Posted by NORTHERNHIBBY

If Dundee United hadn't beaten Rangers, then der hun would have been looking forward to a bumper pay-day this weekend that might have helped keep them afloat. On the eve of a weekend of cup footie, I will sink one tonight and salute the Arabs.

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I was thinking much the same earlier....if they can double the medicine on Sunday then I may send a bottle Glenkinchie to DUFC as reward :greengrin

Interesting article on the Beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17300753

A bit more pressure on HMRC not to treat anyone differently. Can't see them agreeing a CVA - unless it is so they can better pursue the BTC.

All over the BBC news is the story about Paul Murray, the two Rangers Supporters groups and Ticketus "consortium" putting together a bid. Sorry but I don't believe a word of it. It seems to me to lack any basis in reality. Where's the critical inquiry, the independent scepticism? Since when did the broadcast news in this country become the mouthpiece for self-seeking fantasists? Whatever happened to the journalistic integrity that the BBC used to be famed for?

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Originally Posted by grunt

All over the BBC news is the story about Paul Murray, the two Rangers Supporters groups and Ticketus "consortium" putting together a bid. Sorry but I don't believe a word of it. It seems to me to lack any basis in reality. Where's the critical inquiry, the independent scepticism? Since when did the broadcast news in this country become the mouthpiece for self-seeking fantasists? Whatever happened to the journalistic integrity that the BBC used to be famed for?

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I think there's a lot of truth in their "intention". But, many a slip twixt cup and lip etc....

As I have said before, though.... still no mention, or questioning, of the HMRC aspect of all of this. By anyone.

You can see it happening...a package is put together, only to be scuppered by those pesky kids at the HMRC. Paul Murray will shrug his shoulders and say "well, I tried". Centre 1 in East Kilbride will get their many windows tanned.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

You can see it happening...a package is put together, only to be scuppered by those pesky kids at the HMRC.

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But what would be the point of that? Wasting everybody's time and effort. I just don't get it.

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Originally Posted by grunt

But what would be the point of that? Wasting everybody's time and effort. I just don't get it.

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Vanity? Arrogance? Maybe they assume that HMRC can't possibly refuse the mighty Glasgow Rangers?

Or... maybe they know something we don't. Maybe they know how much debt there really is, and that they can get over 75% of the creditors on side.

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Originally Posted by grunt

But what would be the point of that? Wasting everybody's time and effort. I just don't get it.

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Buys them time to the end of the season. They win the BTC and all is dandy.

I don't get how todays agreement with the players has saved one million pounds a month. Assuming the average wage at the huns is 10k a week, they would need to cut the salaries of a lot of players to save a million.

anyone enlighten me?

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Originally Posted by PatHead

Buys them time to the end of the season. They win the BTC and all is dandy.

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Or they take 1000's of supporters cash and it's lost in the blink of an eye when BTC asks for £49m.
Anyone business or 'Knight' buying the club will want to protect themselves from this, unless of course we have seen HMRC give the green light to tax avoidance carte blanche across the UK.