Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

Whatever happens, it doesn't look good for them:
At the end of this season, they will be relegated.
They won't come straight back up.
They have no access to anything other than survival funding.
The main stand is a wreck.
Their reputation has been ruined.

I was talking about the cup final to someone the other day for the first time in ages and suddenly realised that it doesn't hurt anymore. The future is green!

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Originally Posted by basehibby

Yeah - I was wondering that too! It seems to me that they're still pining their hopes on a long shot - that the Liths will accept a considerably smaller settlement for the CVA than they could get for the land sale (don't know the details but I'm gathering that the CVA is significantly less than half of the saleable value of the land?!?).

Of course there will be costs associated with the land sale such as that of demolishing the asbestos-ridden monstrosity that is Tynie, agent & management fees, and a necessary time delay before the asset could be realised. But my mental arithmetic STILL sees a considerable difference between the sums which have been banded about by FOH and the realisable value of the PBS which would surely force the admins to see to their 1st duty towards their creditors by knocking back the CVA.

There might be more to it that I'm not comprehending but it seems to me that their chances can only be 50/50 at best even if the Liths have agreed to consider a CVA as reports suggest.

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The lands valued at £5m that's the security ukios has with the debt they are due, doesn't mean any developer will pay £5m though with the cost likely to be high after purchase of the land before any build can commence any developer interested will be after lowest price possible in turn making the save our hearts in trouble bid more attractive than it should be

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Originally Posted by Matty_Jack04

The lands valued at £5m that's the security ukios has with the debt they are due, doesn't mean any developer will pay £5m though with the cost likely to be high after purchase of the land before any build can commence any developer interested will be after lowest price possible in turn making the save our hearts in trouble bid more attractive than it should be

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Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

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Let's not forget the price of corrugated scrap .

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

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If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

Companies from outside Edinburgh possibly outside Scotland would bite your hands off for a site within a mile of the city centre. And they won't give a **** what Baldrick or View from the shed post in the Evening News website. However, I doubt they'll get a chance to put a bid in.

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Originally Posted by Peevemor

Tynie would sell no problem for £5m. The current valuation is realtively low because it takes into account all factors (ie. demolition costs, physical restricitons of the site, economic climate, etc). There are people/companies who will make fortunes out of the global financial crisis by being able to invest (not just in land) while prices are rock bottom.

One of my bosses, a property developer, is currently building up a huge 'bank' of land both for the reason above but also to reduce his tax bill - he's far from being the only one.

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How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?

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Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

How does building up a land bank reduce a tax bill ?

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It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

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Originally Posted by Antwerphibs

It doesn't. Certainly not in the uk. It's capital expenditure, so costs can only be offset on the sale of the same capital asset.

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Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

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Originally Posted by worcesterhibby

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

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Profit is still £10m. The Land is show in the accounts as stock or Fixed Assets, and can't be set off against any profit until it is sold.

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Originally Posted by worcesterhibby

Company is set to make 10 million profit…buys land worth 8 million…profit is reduced to 2 million…so corporation tax would be reduced…surely ?

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Company buys land worth £ 8 million, then writes down value to £ 2 million because of proposal to List a rotting, dangerous structure on the site. :greengrin

Profits reduced by £ 6 million for a few years anyway.

surely some criminal dealings have happened while Romanov was in charge. if he does go on trail this will come out in the wash surely?

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Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

Has that happened yet, no.

Do they (HMFC) have the money for the shares?
Will UBIG hold them to ransom over the shares?

More importantly. Do UBIG have the shares. Maybe, just maybe, the mad man has them tucked away safe... :na na:

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Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...Q6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...Q6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.

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It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.

The sting in the tail for the puddle drinkers could be the main stand. Its now on the agenda to become a listed building, so any renovation costs are going to rocket. They may survive but they will be skint for years.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

The Biddies will have robust agreements in place to ensure that they get their cash. :agree:

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As robust as the legally binding £6.8m security over tynecastle that a national bank in Lithuania had which they will get next to nothing back on?

This and the Sevco saga have proved there is no such thing as a robust agreement that will ensure people get their money back!

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Originally Posted by Fat Penlon

As robust as the legally binding £6.8m security over tynecastle that a national bank in Lithuania had which they will get next to nothing back on?

This and the Sevco saga have proved there is no such thing as a robust agreement that will ensure people get their money back!

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It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Thinking back to last March, when Vlad and the gang all resigned from the UBIG Board, Fedatovas stated that Vlad still controlled the football club.

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...Q6yveJCL4qxW0g

Is there a chance the shares in the club were spirited away. I don't think anyone will know until the Admin. arrives and opens the books.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.

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So, it's possible that the mad man (maybe not so mad), is two or three steps ahead of the game!.. :pray::pray:

I'd laugh my socks off :wink:

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Originally Posted by peter douglas

If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

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Only if you believe that there are 400,000 people attached to The Famous. Otherwise only a Tynie handful care two hoots, and nowhere near enough to materially affect the price of eventual housing there.

Would I be right in saying the worst case scenario for us is that they get out of admin before the January transfer window, and then someone gives them the money to buy free agents in February?

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Only if you believe that there are 400,000 people attached to The Famous. Otherwise only a Tynie handful care two hoots, and nowhere near enough to materially affect the price of eventual housing there.

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If Ukio took possession of the PBS the first thing would be to bring in a demolition contractor to take down, cut up and remove all the metal from the stands ( probably done for next to no cost with the value of the scrap ).

Marketing would be of a cleared development site and any flak would be at the previous club owners and the Lithuanian Admin.

A developer would then probably get credit for bringing jobs and housing to Gorgie rather than criticism.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.

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How come? I thought the Save Hearts In Trouble bid was for around £3M of which a chunk of that would be due to BDO. That's less than half what UKIO have as security.

If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking?

Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community.

****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking? Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community. ****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

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PB but they are not ashamed in the slightest. They are all happy to get away with it and F the rest.

Utter **** bags as well as charity robbers. Just shows you the type of people who follow that mob.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's a fair question.

Going on what is in the public domain, which is all we (and BDO) can do at the moment, those shares are owned by UBIG. However, shares can be sold or transferred, and often that isn't properly recorded at Companies House, either innocently or otherwise.

As ever, it's part of the UBIG admin's job to ascertain what assets the company has. Like you say, he doesn't know what they are until he opens the books.

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Wht's the effect of the 'sale' of 10% of the shares to the fans? Does it dilute UKIO/UBIGs holding (and if so would it take it to less than 75%) or as it was fraud will it be discounted as simply a fan donation?

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Originally Posted by dangermouse

How come? I thought the Save Hearts In Trouble bid was for around £3M of which a chunk of that would be due to BDO. That's less than half what UKIO have as security.

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Like I say, nobody knows the exact figures.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

If a CVA of a penny in the pound is accepted would that mean Big Hearts would get £360 of the £36000 owed. Obviously once the Liths are paid they will get nothing but theoretically speaking?

Bear in mind they recently won an award for their work in the community.

****ing disgusting and absolutely nothing for those ***** to gloat about, they should be ashamed.

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There will be no dividend for unsecured creditors.

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Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

Wht's the effect of the 'sale' of 10% of the shares to the fans? Does it dilute UKIO/UBIGs holding (and if so would it take it to less than 75%) or as it was fraud will it be discounted as simply a fan donation?

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In theory, it was a dilution of the existing holdings.

In practice, though.... it wasn't a share issue at all. IIRC, it has been treated (by BDO) as a reduction in the money due to UBIG.

Any news on Ubig admin being appointed?

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Originally Posted by peter douglas

If I were a developer I wouldn't go near tynecastle or any football ground in these circumstances. To buy a club's spiritual home and demolish it leaving them high and dry is asking for trouble no matter who or where you are. When you add social media and nutters that attach themselves to clubs into the mix other investment opportunities seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously not everyone would be bothered by such factors but a lot of people would be, which might in turn effect the price it achieves.

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Think it happened with Clydebank.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's difficult to know the exact figures, but it sounds like UKIO will get most of that £6.8m back.

The Biddies, though, will either have ownership of Tynie, or security over it.....an asset worth £x million, with the Fannies due to pay back much less.

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What do you base that on?

The figures attributed so far to FOH's actual offer to UKIO have been in the region of 2M. From that, BDO have to be paid first. It's a very big leap from under 2M to 6.8M.

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

What do you base that on?

The figures attributed so far to FOH's actual offer to UKIO have been in the region of 2M. From that, BDO have to be paid first. It's a very big leap from under 2M to 6.8M.

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Like I say, no-one outside of FOH, BDO and UKIO knows the actual amounts. It's all been speculation otherwise.

"Most of " £6.8m, though, is anything over £3.4m. :greengrin I think UKIO would be daft to accept anything less than that.