Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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23-10-2013, 09:47 AM
Liberal Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thecat23

You think? I honestly can't see it mate. I think dropping down will have a huge effect. Plus where is the money coming from each year to maintain the cost of running the club and policing, keeping the stadium fit for folk to sit in? I really do think this will still end bad for Hearts overall and they will be less than average at best. Just my opinion of course. Suppose we'll have to just wait and see.

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).
23-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Onion

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Not sure I agree.

When Vlad took over, they had an offer for Tynie of £22m. Their debt was £16m. Net assets therefore £6m.

If the CVA happens, their ground is worth (per the offer) around £5m. Their debt is not far short of that. The main stand needs replacing. They have very little working capital.

Then without Vlad they would now be sitting with an asset valued at £5m, debts of £16+m, a deteriorating stand - a considerably worst position that they are now.

Given where they were in 2005, I can't think of any business model that would have performed better. Amoral but pure genius.
23-10-2013, 09:50 AM
bingo70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).

Will they be able to get debt? I thought it'd be a while before they'd be offered any credit facilities.
23-10-2013, 09:50 AM
Thecat23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

IIRC we lost well over £1 million in 1998/99 when we were in the first division. So Hearts are likely add to their new debt pile next season and may well have a further season to cover out of the top tier.

It is nonsense to say they will walk away debt free - they'll probably have a higher level of debt (and certainly higher debt financing costs) than we will, with higher running costs, and lower TV and corporate revenue.

They face a long road back to competitiveness - assuming they survive administration (which still isn't certain).

Spot on, that is how I see it panning out.
23-10-2013, 09:52 AM
lord bunberry

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

http://translate.googleusercontent.c...Ydw0moSBjhu6Eg

Vlad going back to Lith. Land.:fibber:

Stay safe sweet prince.
23-10-2013, 09:55 AM
Liberal Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by bingo70

Will they be able to get debt? I thought it'd be a while before they'd be offered any credit facilities.

Isn't that where the biddies come in? And if they are offered commercial credit facilities eg overdraft it is not going to be on the sort of terms we get with Farmer guaranteeing the mortgages for the stands.

But Crops or Caversham will no doubt be along with chapter and verse.
23-10-2013, 09:55 AM
rcarter1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thecat23

You think? I honestly can't see it mate. I think dropping down will have a huge effect. Plus where is the money coming from each year to maintain the cost of running the club and policing, keeping the stadium fit for folk to sit in? I really do think this will still end bad for Hearts overall and they will be less than average at best. Just my opinion of course. Suppose we'll have to just wait and see.

Season ticket sales,match tickets, sponsorship, merchandise and TV. Its the same for all clubs. They were so up against it recently because they were out of sync paying regarding income and paying big wages. Get through the season, and they are much like everyone else in terms of money coming in and bills (cough cough) to pay.
23-10-2013, 09:56 AM
Treadstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy74

I presume the purchase price and initial working capital will all be debt on day one?

Working capital coming from the FANNIES DIDDIES is it not ?
23-10-2013, 10:02 AM
Part/Time Supporter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onion

Then without Vlad they would now be sitting with an asset valued at £5m, debts of £16+m, a deteriorating stand - a considerably worst position that they are now.

Given where they were in 2005, I can't think of any business model that would have performed better. Amoral but pure genius.

That's a false hypothesis. If Vlad hadn't come in, they would have had to proceed with the Cala deal. This would have allowed them to take advantage of unusually high land values in the mid 2000s, as indeed Hibs did with their car park land. Hearts would have then had to play at Murrayfield for a while, but no doubt the council would have soon helped them out.
23-10-2013, 10:03 AM
Liberal Hibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcarter1

Get through the season, and they are much like everyone else in terms of money coming in and bills (cough cough) to pay.

Except they won't get decent if any credit terms, they'll have limited TV money being out of the top tier, higher running costs on their stadium, the biddies capital to pay back on god knows what terms etc. Oh and no certianty of an instant return to the top flight - so they may have to do is again for another year.

The Rangers spent 50% more than their income last year - Hearts won't necessarily be that extravagent but they face continued losses even if they make it out of admin.
23-10-2013, 10:33 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by VivaPalmeiras

Gintaras Adomonis - anagram in waiting Shirley...

A Damnations, Go Sir

...or a new adjective...

Administrogasmo
23-10-2013, 10:37 AM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberal Hibby

Except they won't get decent if any credit terms, they'll have limited TV money being out of the top tier, higher running costs on their stadium, the biddies capital to pay back on god knows what terms etc. Oh and no certianty of an instant return to the top flight - so they may have to do is again for another year.

The Rangers spent 50% more than their income last year - Hearts won't necessarily be that extravagent but they face continued losses even if they make it out of admin.

They won't be able to make losses. They will have to trade at least at break even as they won't have access to credit.
23-10-2013, 10:44 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by keekaboo

A Damnations, Go Sir

...or a new adjective...

Administrogasmo

To admin is orgasm.
23-10-2013, 10:51 AM
brog

Wow, I'm as depressed as anyone but we need to calm down a tad.
Firstly, a CVA hasn't even been prepared let alone accepted. The way the undertaker is talking leads me to believe UBIG may have a bigger influence than accepted knowledge on this board would suggest. That's even allowing for the inherent caution, ok fence-sitting, of accountants. I'm a glass full kind of person so I prefer to go along with views of Cat etc. but I do think they still have a long way to go. They also have to pay football debts, about £400k iirc & if HMRC are stiffed for best part of £2m then they're going to be all over Yams next time a payment is overdue. If they do go down, & they're overwhelming favourites to do so, they will struggle to come straight back. They couldn't win the 2nd tier in the 70/80s ( maybe once out of 4? ) & in 2 games vs lower opposition this season they've drawn both over 90/120 mins. That's without the malign influence of their big cousins being taken into account!
A final question, does anyone know if the staff at PBS are being paid yet? Yet another cause for pride that low earners are shafted while footballers & BDO earn a ( comparative ) fortune.
23-10-2013, 11:03 AM
Hibby Kay-Yay

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They won't be able to make losses. They will have to trade at least at break even as they won't have access to credit.

They could get Ann Budge to guarantee their credit, similar to Farmer for us.
23-10-2013, 11:17 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hibby Kay-Yay

They could get Ann Budge to guarantee their credit, similar to Farmer for us.

STF has done this because he owns 90% of the club. Ann Budge has only put up the money for others to buy Hearts, she does not want to own it and wants all of her money back (with interest). It's not exactly the same situation.
23-10-2013, 11:17 AM
Dashing Bob S

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

When I saw Jackson on the news last night, he didn't look like a man that had got out if jail. In fact, he said the Yams were only 4/10ths of the way to being saved, as there are two more big obstacles to overcome. I'd say his stance on yesterday's news was neutral at best.

The STV reporter pointed out, that even with a CVA, Dunfermline came within minutes of being liquidated last week. I think the Yams have dodged the first bullet, rather than made any progress.

The scenario has to be a good one. I can't think of any club that has entered administration and bounced back to its former status quickly. Rangers, Livingston, Dunfermline, Dundee, Leeds United, Portsmouth etc Of those Rangers (sorry Yams) are the only ones with a fan base that can generate enough income to out buy their opponents.

Unless anyone is mad enough to pump a fortune into Hearts, they will have to settle for developing their own talent, and competing for other clubs players on the same terms as the rest of us.

Yams that lived through the 70s know what's going on. It would be a real find if someone could turn up their "sack the board poster" circa 1980.

I think this is about where they are at.

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.

UBIG admins will look at the bigger picture and that will come down to the question: will the amount of cashed actually realised by the FOH bid, be greater or less than the value of the assets and the hassle of selling them on the open market? (the assets being the land the PBS stands on.)

This won't happen quickly, Hearts are a very small part of their inquiry.

This is why Jackson is being (correctly) circumspect.
23-10-2013, 11:25 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.

I think a lot of people had hoped that they would be willing to consider the alternative option of selling Tynecastle separately. I for one can't believe they wouldn't make more money that way. For all the posturing by FOH, it has to be worth a lot more than the 2M they're offering.

However, the simplest option for them has always been to agree a CVA.
23-10-2013, 11:28 AM
Part/Time Supporter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

I think this is about where they are at.

UKIOS admins were always going to agree the CVA as its the only show in town.

UBIG admins will look at the bigger picture and that will come down to the question: will the amount of cashed actually realised by the FOH bid, be greater or less than the value of the assets and the hassle of selling them on the open market? (the assets being the land the PBS stands on.)

This won't happen quickly, Hearts are a very small part of their inquiry.

This is why Jackson is being (correctly) circumspect.

You've got it the wrong way round. Ukio have the security and have chosen to progress with the FOH offer to the CVA stage, rather than calling in that security and breaking up the company.

Jackson's being cautious because that's his job. There are also other deals to agree with UBIG and the Swiss company, and they have to ensure that there is enough cash on hand to keep Hearts operating until FOH are able to complete the take over. But the fundamental decision, whether to sell as a going concern or to break it up, appears to have been made.
23-10-2013, 11:32 AM
Leishy1995

http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/...tmas-1-3152581

Great reporting here.

Ps uncle joe's comments a cracker
23-10-2013, 11:35 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leishy1995

http://m.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/...tmas-1-3152581

Great reporting here.

#allisbarry
23-10-2013, 11:54 AM
TonyStokeprano

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?
23-10-2013, 11:56 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyStokeprano

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?

I do.

And they won't.
23-10-2013, 11:58 AM
Keith_M

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyStokeprano

Does anyone know if the dirty smelly puddledrinking vermin tramps still have to pay back the 1.5 million they were due HMRC ?

Yes, but it's a pence in the pound agreement (if a CVA is agreed). The exact amount will be zero pence in the pound making a grand total of, ehm, zero.

A lot of people don't seem to be getting this whole "Administration is a legal way to avoid paying your bills" thing.
23-10-2013, 12:49 PM
21.05.2016

Typical that those jammy, slimey *******s squirm their way out of trouble again. Cheating low lifes. then of course their self deluded, arrogant fans will be back giving it the big un' having escaped scott free. ****ing sickening!

Hearts of Midlothian - the club with no shame!
23-10-2013, 12:55 PM
Phil D. Rolls

1 Attachment(s)

Attachment 11204
23-10-2013, 01:25 PM
The Falcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by keekaboo

Yes, but it's a pence in the pound agreement (if a CVA is agreed). The exact amount will be zero pence in the pound making a grand total of, ehm, zero.

Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.
23-10-2013, 01:26 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Falcon

Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

We can only hope.............remember the Hibs' lady shareholder who held out against the deid Wallet Merger
23-10-2013, 01:30 PM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Falcon

Which begs the question why would such an agreement be acceptable to UBIG? Presuming they are truly independent of UKIO.

The only asset is Tynecastle. The only bidder is FOH. No one is going to get any money except the owners of Tynecastle and the "football" debtors.
23-10-2013, 01:45 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

The only asset is Tynecastle. The only bidder is FOH. No one is going to get any money except the owners of Tynecastle and the "football" debtors.

Not sure if the football debtors won't get bumped as well. There is no agreement in Scotland that they get priority. The Rangers had to pay theirs as it was a condition of the new club entering the league.