Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

Btw, guess who said ... ?

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Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about.
And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so.
With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.
And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.
I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Btw, guess who said ... ?

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What a find. Looking forward to the reparations!

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

One little moan, though....."the former Rangers owners now face at last paying the British state the tax and NI they dodged for all those years."

No they won't.

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Er, why not? Surely if the HMRC have won the case and BDO don't appeal again, then HMRC have a claim against RFC(IL)? I realise they won't get all of it back, but won't they get a bigger payout from the Ticketus money which BDO obtained?

Or have I got it all wrong again?

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Originally Posted by grunt

Er, why not? Surely if the HMRC have won the case and BDO don't appeal again, then HMRC have a claim against RFC(IL)? I realise they won't get all of it back, but won't they get a bigger payout from the Ticketus money which BDO obtained?

Or have I got it all wrong again?

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Like you say, they won't get it all back. Last I saw, it was something like 13p in the £.

That blog seems to think they will. That's my only quibble with it.

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Thompson and McCall are Huns, so you wouldn't expect anything else from them. The likes of Martin O'Neill and other apologists will have some vested interest in keeping the Old Firm incest alive.

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Not all Celtic players, as they would have us believe, think that Sevco won fairly and squarely on the pitch. Ex-Celt, Darren O'Dea has said that they should be stripped of every tainted title.

Rangers apologists out in force tonight on Sportsound with Graham Spiers of all people being the only one to even consider that Rangers did anything wrong.

Stuart McCall sounding like a typical thick Gers pub bore.

I am a bit stupid so can someone please explain why The Rangers are talking about being stripped of THIER titles. Surely they are 2 different clubs. If they are the same club why will they not be liable for the big tax debt if they are found guilty. Why dont the press / media highlight this simple point. As i say i maybe missing the point please explain.

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Originally Posted by Sammy7nil

I am a bit stupid so can someone please explain why The Rangers are talking about being stripped of THIER titles. Surely they are 2 different clubs. If they are the same club why will they not be liable for the big tax debt if they are found guilty. Why dont the press / media highlight this simple point. As i say i maybe missing the point please explain.

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Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

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They are the same club when it suits them. And a totally separate entity when it doesn't. Obviously. :wink:

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Because the new club bought the history and titles of the old club.

They didn't bother buying the debts which were left with the old club.

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Really, i did not know that, obviously they are well within their rights to be miffed :wink:

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

There is merit in the argument that says RFC (old/new/whatever) have served their time. Just as many on here would have wished on Hearts, they had to start again at the bottom and play their way up. Whether they have done that in the "correct" manner, and learned the financial lessons of the past, has still to be played out.

There is also an argument that says that the lower end of Scottish football has benefited financially from the presence of the hordes, although whether the local police and communities of Peterhead, Annan et al would agree is another matter.

For me, and probably for many others, punishment is one thing, but contrition is another. Today's statement doesn't seem to indicate much of that; neither does their financial situation.

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This is spot on for me ,There is absolutely no contrition in that statement ,and their arrogance knows no bounds
The fact they put out such a statement is telling everyone else you won't take our titles off us and it's time to move on They want to dictate to everyone else a position that suits them Why not just keep thier traps shut and leave the authorities to decide what if anything should be done
They will buy in the January Transfer window if they see us as a threat and yet again try and buy another title .The football authorities have no intention of taking them on and just wish Ashley would force their hand
But he is biding his time .
It's difficult for me to draw a line under it when they go on acting like this .
No doubt they will find money to strengthen their squad in January as well despite everything that's going on



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Originally Posted by Libby Hibby

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

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I wonder if Ogilvie has ambitions to take over from Sepp Blatter at FIFA.

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Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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:agree: Yep McCall was slavering something about Rangers were winning on the "playing surface" I think he said. Nothing said about the club having an unfair financial advantage.

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Originally Posted by JimBHibees

Well Thompson would he had an EBT for 475k when at Rangers.

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Thompson looked to me to be quite uncomfortable (embarrassed or annoyed perhaps?) when the point was put to him and Dodds that many fans of other clubs are saying the Ibrox club should be stripped of titles won during the EBT years.

Thompson of course did not agree. As Mandy Rice Davies famously said..."he would say that, wouldn't he?"

http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thoms...lverware/10066

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Originally Posted by Libby Hibby

Campbell Ogilvie is the link between this filthy, organised, dishonest and cheating behaiviour from Oldco and the SFA...proving that our national organisation set up to protect the game is directly involved in this illegal behaiviour...mark my words, the SFA do not want this EBT saga to be proven once and for all due to the spiders web of deciet caused by Ogilvie will unveil

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Ogilvie was also operations director with Hearts during the tax dodging loan players from Kaunas FC period and the Rudi Skacel special deal with Vlad that we won't register with the SPL fraud.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Proof that they've no remorse of the damage they've done to Scottish Football - SFA should use it as reason for either stripping their titles or just voiding the trophies.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

Ogilvie was also operations director with Hearts during the tax dodging loan players from Kaunas FC period and the Rudi Skacel special deal with Vlad that we won't register with the SPL fraud.

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If the eventually do erase the trophy haul from Rangers then they have to strip at the very least the last Hearts cup win as it is on record in a court somewhere that Rudi was being paid a sum from Lithuania that the SFA/ SPL had no record of. This is exactly what Rangers received their £350k fine for. This would be pleasing as they could then "officially " ram their 5-1 caper.👍👍👍

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Originally Posted by greenlex

If the eventually do erase the trophy haul from Rangers then they have to strip at the very least the last Hearts cup win as it is on record in a court somewhere that Rudi was being paid a sum from Lithuania that the SFA/ SPL had no record of. This is exactly what Rangers received their £350k fine for. This would be pleasing as they could then "officially " ram their 5-1 caper.[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]

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That's why we chase Sevco. [emoji23]
You then let Sevco whataboutery do the rest. The SFA only listen to old firm fans.


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Sevco are saying that they simply won't accept any stripping of their titles. Now we know that the blazers are frightened of them, but, if they ever grow a pair and take action, do Sevco have any say in the matter?

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Originally Posted by Jim44

Sevco are saying that they simply won't accept any stripping of their titles. Now we know that the blazers are frightened of them, but, if they ever grow a pair and take action, do Sevco have any say in the matter?

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As the owner of a member of the SPFL and SFA, yep.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

That's why we chase Sevco. [emoji23]
You then let Sevco whataboutery do the rest. The SFA only listen to old firm fans.


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If the SFA announce they are going to revisit Rangers EBT cheating we have to supply chapter and verse on Hearts's Kaunas loan players and the Rudi Skacel special deal so it gets investigated at the same time.

These issues seem to have passed under the radar of the rest of Scottish football.

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As the owner of a member of the SPFL and SFA, yep.

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I can see that they will have member power and rights, but, if the other members unanimously vote for action against them, can they refuse to accept it?

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Originally Posted by Jim44

I can see that they will have member power and rights, but, if the other members unanimously vote for action against them, can they refuse to accept it?

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I would doubt it.

It would be in character for them to take things to Court but, IIRC, the SFA rules forbid that as well.

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Originally Posted by greenginger

If the SFA announce they are going to revisit Rangers EBT cheating we have to supply chapter and verse on Hearts's Kaunas loan players and the Rudi Skacel special deal so it gets investigated at the same time. These issues seem to have passed under the radar of the rest of Scottish football.

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In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

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Originally Posted by grunt

In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

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This bit:-

Hearts spent big, but they didn’t systematically avoid paying their social taxes. They didn’t leave themselves in a position where they were beyond the understanding of their creditors. And they didn’t get themselves into a postion where the validity of many of their player registrations for the best part of a decade is open to question.

In technical terms, kack.

He does, though, start pulling on a thread which, ultimately, may put the authorities off digging too deeply. If Hearts can be punished, aren't the others guilty as well? Livi (LC 04), Dundee (D1 wins), Gretna. ......

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Originally Posted by grunt

In fact one major blog is saying that the issues don't compare at all - I disagree with him. https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/20...tood-a-chance/

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That's what I was saying a few posts back. Scottish football is oblivious to what the Yams got up to.

Post on the Clumpany site and put them right or they'll get away with it again.

Hearts sought to "avoid" UK Tax by registering players with Kaunas then "loaning" them to Hearts even though the players might never have set foot in Lithuania. The players paid smoe UK tax and some in Lithuania. A court hearing on appeal from HMRC found this to be tax avoidance and claimed the back-dated legal taxes due to them from Hearts. Hearts were given time to pay this in installments but went into administration before the payments were finished.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's pretty simple, similar to the way Rangers avoided tax but the mechanism was different.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

BBC Bluenose correspondent Richard Wilson with the "we've been punished enough" line. Starts getting tasty quarter of an hour in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p037m4h7

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Again, what punishment have they received to date?