Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

As has been said before on here, it's not about Rangers. It's a test case for the many (hundreds?) other similar cases that HMRC has open on EBTs. If this goes their way, they will have authority to press on with them.




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But, actually it is in one sense about Rangers, as a test case, and as a final verdict on EBT's.

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Originally Posted by Cropley10

But, actually it is in one sense about Rangers, as a test case, and as a final verdict on EBT's.

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Rangers, and the tax at issue, are almost irrelevant in this. It's about clarifying the law, which is why some would like to see it heard by the SC.

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two points I suspect:

1) no mileage in rangers appealing to SC as they have been caught!

however and I hope ...

2) some idiot does (insert idiot name here) as I suspect the SC will uphold the decision and absolutely and completely nail Rangers to the mast!

I do do want A.N Idiot to appeal as this would take out all the criminals running Scottish Football in a single blow! Oh how I wish:aok:

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I wonder if there are many wealthy football EBT users who would be willing to financially back Murray in an appeal to try and overturn this case and avoid a precedant being set.

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Dunno, TBH. I suppose it's a possibility.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I wonder if there are many wealthy football EBT users who would be willing to financially back Murray in an appeal to try and overturn this case and avoid a precedant being set.

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They might be better to wait for a case where the employers had the sense not to issue side letters.

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

two points I suspect:

1) no mileage in rangers appealing to SC as they have been caught!

however and I hope ...

2) some idiot does (insert idiot name here) as I suspect the SC will uphold the decision and absolutely and completely nail Rangers to the mast!

I do do want A.N Idiot to appeal as this would take out all the criminals running Scottish Football in a single blow! Oh how I wish:aok:

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How would that happen?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

How would that happen?

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Which bit?

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Which bit?

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Taking out all the criminals etc etc...

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Taking out all the criminals etc etc...

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Personally and IMO, once the ruling kicks in, there is no hiding place for those who run Scottish football (sorry for the drama but I call them criminals) because Rangers will hit out everywhere and at everyone meaning the hidden bodies will start appearing fairly soon. Watch out for a few quiet resignations or mutual parting of ways before the tsunami hits ...

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Originally Posted by MrSmith

Personally and IMO, once the ruling kicks in, there is no hiding place for those who run Scottish football (sorry for the drama but I call them criminals) because Rangers will hit out everywhere and at everyone meaning the hidden bodies will start appearing fairly soon. Watch out for a few quiet resignations or mutual parting of ways before the tsunami hits ...

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Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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Take the football authorities out of it to start with, is there anyway fans can have there say again same way they said no to them being accepted into the top flight after they became the mighty sevco , I'm pretty sure if there was a poll done in each football fans websites in Scotland you could easily ask the question quite simply , should they or should they not be stripped of these titles and cups , then theses could be given to the authorities and show them how the fans really feel , just a thought could this be done all over the club's in Scotland or is that just stupid lol

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void


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Originally Posted by high bee

Nice balanced views on Sportscene from Steven Thompson and Stuart McCall. They both say rangers didn't cheat because the trophies were won on the park!? What does that even mean? Maybe they should take their heads out their backsides and realise the players on the park could only be afforded through EBTs.

They were quoting ex Celtic people like Martin O'Neill with the trophies were won on the park and apparently many across football agree. No mention of the majority of fans, players etc who think it was as clear a case of cheating as you can get.

Unfortunately I feel this is the type of bluff that the football authorities will hide behind and try to make out that their is no appetite for justice or that some who used to be at Celtic says it's ok so it must be.

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Well Thompson would he had an EBT for 475k when at Rangers.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void


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Two faced cheating Hearts **** . Can't believe the hypocrisy with these knobs

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void


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I remember a spell of a few years where Hibs and Hearts went head to head for a number of players. Unfortunately the turd-coloured pound tended to win the day and we saw a number of players choose them over us.

Many derbies were lost and we were left shrugging our shoulders about how we could possibly compete with the insane spending power of a similar-sized club to ourselves.

The irony of his entire piece is that he had a picture of "that" cup final at the top of his page. A cup run that saw them unable to meet contractual commitments wth their players one month and beating several clubs to the signing of Craig Beattie the next.

If you want to play the victim and moan about how much money the bad huns diddled you out of then you'd be best doing it without having a photo of the most tainted trophy win in Scottish football history at the top of the page. Even if it is your club's proudest moment.

Or maybe I'm just a bitter hobo.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void

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Predictable guff. The notion that the yams missed out on Champions League while they themselves carried unsustainable debt and most probably dodgy tax arrangements is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by livi hibs 1875

Take the football authorities out of it to start with, is there anyway fans can have there say again same way they said no to them being accepted into the top flight after they became the mighty sevco , I'm pretty sure if there was a poll done in each football fans websites in Scotland you could easily ask the question quite simply , should they or should they not be stripped of these titles and cups , then theses could be given to the authorities and show them how the fans really feel , just a thought could this be done all over the club's in Scotland or is that just stupid lol

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The only way fans can have their say would be if they stayed away but that's never gonna happen. As long as rangers and celtic are the meal ticket for Scottish football then things will always be adapted to accommodate their needs.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void


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What a joke. Black,pot,kettle, calling .......

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

http://mattleslie74.weebly.com/blog/null-and-void


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He actually, IMO, makes many good points but unfortunately much of it is undone by the guff in bold below. Maxing out the overdraft & credit card doesn't really account for stiffing creditors to the tune of £30m, including more than £2million to UK taxpayers. Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford! Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

Hearts, like many others, did (on a larger scale admittedly - and they shouldn't have) maxed out both overdraft and credit card.

They paid for it. They went into administration, took the massive points deduction that went with it, accepted their culpability and managed to appeal to the good grace of their creditors to negotiate a CVA that allowed them to get something back.

Far from ideal, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Hearts fan who is proud of what happened.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

I wonder if there are many wealthy football EBT users who would be willing to financially back Murray in an appeal to try and overturn this case and avoid a precedant being set.

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Is it not actually BDO, on behalf of the creditors, who would be the only ones likely to appeal? If there's no appeal HMRC will swallow up most of the pot leaving very little for anyone else. However if there's not a significant & influential creditor who stands to lose heavily I doubt BDO will have the inclination to appeal though morally perhaps they should.

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Originally Posted by brog

He actually, IMO, makes many good points but unfortunately much of it is undone by the guff in bold below. Maxing out the overdraft & credit card doesn't really account for stiffing creditors to the tune of £30m, including more than £2million to UK taxpayers. Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford! Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

Hearts, like many others, did (on a larger scale admittedly - and they shouldn't have) maxed out both overdraft and credit card.

They paid for it. They went into administration, took the massive points deduction that went with it, accepted their culpability and managed to appeal to the good grace of their creditors to negotiate a CVA that allowed them to get something back.

Far from ideal, and you would be hard-pressed to find a Hearts fan who is proud of what happened.

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Sorry, maxing the overdraft and credit card isn't criminal. Doing so with no intention of paying them off is. Maxing the cards and overdraft, then ripping off your friends and neighbours by running a fraudulent Christmas club scheme is. Trying to downplay their clubs criminality and their own culpability doesn't wash with me.

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Originally Posted by brog

Strange also there's no mention of contracts & payments being funneled through Lithuania to allow Yams to avoid tax & buy players they could not otherwise afford!

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Not strange at all. I would expect every Jambo on earth to ignore that aspect with every fibre of their horrible being.

There are of course hints at other scams, Skatchel's declared wages in court not quite matching up to what he was getting, the Hearts player who on applying for a mortgage telling the lender that his wages were in fact larger than was shown on the documentation he provided. Circumstantial and unprovable but if I were one of them (eeyuch) I'd be keeping my head under the parapet on this subject. They cheated Scottish football just as much as Rangers (rip) .

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Now why does that sound familiar & is it sheer coincidence that Campbell (Teflon) Ogilvie was heavily involved with both Yams & Sevco at the time both clubs were flouting the rules & leaving a trail of debts?

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We should approach the President of the SFA for clarification. Who holds that post these days?

I think there's some folk allowing their distrust, for want of a better word, to dismiss or lessen the importance of legitimate points raised by people that may be Yams, even if the ironing seems to be piling up!

If somehow the Scottish football authorities acted with integrity, follow following their own rules and precedents sevco will be hammered but importantly the blood letting is unlikely to stop there. The Yams could well be next on the hit list.

I'm quite happy for them to pepper the blog sphere, as I am for anyone with reasonable points to make, as I believe it will add to the pressure for the football authorities to do the right thing.

Aye OK it's the Scottish football authorities but even then I'm hopeful!

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

Wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, I'de hammer them twice as hard now...

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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Oh dear me. They've spent the past three years bleating about the injustice of it all and making veiled threats about how other clubs are going to pay for treating Rangers so badly, but now it's all about working together for the good of Scottish football?

They are so insincere it is untrue. That history they bought for a fiver is tainted. I didn't think stripping titles is the answer but something needs to cut through their shocking arrogance.

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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... including the EBT years, then? :cb

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Originally Posted by EdinMike

Wow... The audacity to come out with a statement like that, I'de hammer them twice as hard now...

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I agree a 10 year ban for that club representing Scotland in European competition is in order. In addition the £250,000 fine which is overdue a 7 day penalty notice must be given whereafter a 1.5% per day charge should be imposed.

The part in bold...

the quickest most sure fire way to improve the promotion of Scottish football would be, quite simply

(1) end the two horse race and get a variety of potential winners (rangers use of ebt directly went against this)

and

(2) ban every single person who enters a football stadium then sings songs of hate, that have nothing to do with football.
They are not welcome on the streets of leith and I don't want these people (of all teams) being heard on my tv in my front room either.

kick out sectarianism, and get a 5 horse race for the title and you'll see much greater interest in the product

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Originally Posted by Kato

Quite an audacious solution for Scottish Football suggested by The Rangers. Let's forget it all with no questions asked.


http://rangers.co.uk/news/headlines/...b-statement-2/


THE SPFL Board has stated they held a conference call to be given a factual update on the Court of Session EBT ruling and so it would be remiss of the Rangers Board not to state the Club’s view.

The first thing to be said is that Rangers has made it clear it wishes to reach out and work with all clubs to help revitalise Scottish football, which has also suffered in recent years. There is much to be done and Rangers wants to be part of the way forward.

Our game has to become more attractive to potential sponsors and partners if the finance levels required are to be generated but this can only be done if we present a coherent and united strategy. Therefore, a line must be drawn now if we are all to prosper.

It is our irrevocable belief that this Club’s history, including its many successes, is beyond debate. Rangers cannot countenance or accept any talk, attempts or actions designed to undermine what this Club has achieved throughout its long history.

So, as far as this Club is concerned there is no need for further SPFL consideration of court judgements or appeals. They should be saying it is time for everyone to move on and work together for the greater good of the game. Scottish football has suffered enough.

....til next time.

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