Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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17-10-2013, 11:37 AM
jacomo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Just the headline ! Reading the actual article if you were a yam you would be very wary.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...vive-1-3145617

A few choice lines.

- BDO are concerned that the UBIG administrators could make life difficult as they try to get hold of the 50 per cent shareholding...

- Foundation of Hearts have offered less than £3m to the club’s biggest creditor, whilst Valnetas have stated that £5m is their desired amount.

- Valnetas have delayed making a decision thus far and BDO are now becoming concerned.

As Banderson has written this story, I'd be very cautious about accepting any of the figures above as fact. Although I suppose "less than £3m" gives him a fair bit of wiggle room - anything from £1 to £2,999,999 is technically correct.
17-10-2013, 11:41 AM
Treadstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacomoseven

As Banderson has written this story, I'd be very cautious about accepting any of the figures above as fact. Although I suppose "less than £3m" gives him a fair bit of wiggle room - anything from £1 to £2,999,999 is technically correct.

Nothing official from the First Minister, Swinney or the Lithuanian ambassador. Bit of a reach from #allisbarry.
17-10-2013, 11:42 AM
PapillonVert

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Just the headline ! Reading the actual article if you were a yam you would be very wary.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...vive-1-3145617

A few choice lines.

- BDO are concerned that the UBIG administrators could make life difficult as they try to get hold of the 50 per cent shareholding...

- Foundation of Hearts have offered less than £3m to the club’s biggest creditor, whilst Valnetas have stated that £5m is their desired amount.

- Valnetas have delayed making a decision thus far and BDO are now becoming concerned.

BDO beginning the softening up process for the inevitable outcome?
17-10-2013, 11:43 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

I think it will be a first step. If he has the Club Name, SFA membership etc the rest of the business could be liquidated and HOMFC allowed to plead " we are the same club " .

Its just we now play at Saughton Enclosure. :greengrin

Still don't follow.

If he buys 29.9% of the club's shares, he owns 29.9% of the Name and SFA Membership. If he wants them to himself, he would have to buy them from the administrator/liquidator as a separate exercise.
17-10-2013, 11:48 AM
greenginger

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Still don't follow.

If he buys 29.9% of the club's shares, he owns 29.9% of the Name and SFA Membership. If he wants them to himself, he would have to buy them from the administrator/liquidator as a separate exercise.

Are the Name and SFA membership not separate assets of the business completely separate from the shareholdings ?
17-10-2013, 11:53 AM
Hibee87

OK im confused now..... and this might have already been asked and/or answered but:

Ukio Bankas admin own 29.9% share and have a security over tyncastle.

UBIG (soon to be admins) own 50% of the shares.

Who exactly are BDO putting the proposal to? for example FOH offer 3 mill for the 29.9%stake including tynie, surly that means sweet FA if approved as they would still need to get the 50% stake from the UBIG admins? what would happen if they rejected any bif from FOH?

to me it looks like FOH need to agree a price with 2 seperate parties to gain control......and 3mill or even the mythical 5mill quoted would surely come no where near to the amount deemed acceptable by both parties involved?
17-10-2013, 11:56 AM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

Are the Name and SFA membership not separate assets of the business completely separate from the shareholdings ?

No.

If you own shares "in" a company, you have a share "of" that company's assets and liabilities.

In Hearts case, there are assets of, say, £5m. That's the property, the playing staff, the SFA membership, the brand etc. Those assets are owned by the company, but the company is owned by its shareholders.

In round terms, then, UKIO have ownership of c£1.5m of Hearts' assets and UBIG £2.5m.

That's why I don't understand why Jamieson would want UKIO's shares. They are worthless and don't give him any leverage over UKIO's stance. (although I'm open to argument on that point).

If he wants to buy the name etc., that's fine, I can understand that. But that would come once BDO decide they are selling off the assets individually, rather than the shares (ie the company as a whole) which is what they're trying to do just now.
17-10-2013, 11:57 AM
#FromTheCapital

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treadstone

Just the headline ! Reading the actual article if you were a yam you would be very wary.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...vive-1-3145617

A few choice lines.

- BDO are concerned that the UBIG administrators could make life difficult as they try to get hold of the 50 per cent shareholding...

- Foundation of Hearts have offered less than £3m to the club’s biggest creditor, whilst Valnetas have stated that £5m is their desired amount.

- Valnetas have delayed making a decision thus far and BDO are now becoming concerned.

Looks like a typical #AllIsBarry article.
Event: Hearts on the brink of liquidation.
Barry: Alex Salmond offers political help to hearts.
17-10-2013, 12:06 PM
greenginger

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

No.

If you own shares "in" a company, you have a share "of" that company's assets and liabilities.

In Hearts case, there are assets of, say, £5m. That's the property, the playing staff, the SFA membership, the brand etc. Those assets are owned by the company, but the company is owned by its shareholders.

In round terms, then, UKIO have ownership of c£1.5m of Hearts' assets and UBIG £2.5m.

That's why I don't understand why Jamieson would want UKIO's shares. They are worthless and don't give him any leverage over UKIO's stance. (although I'm open to argument on that point).

If he wants to buy the name etc., that's fine, I can understand that. But that would come once BDO decide they are selling off the assets individually, rather than the shares (ie the company as a whole) which is what they're trying to do just now.

Point taken. Could Jamieson not simply be wanting to be in the queue should an asset sale start.

We all saw what happened at Govan with D&P and Sevco.
17-10-2013, 12:08 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

Point taken. Could Jamieson not simply be wanting to be in the queue should an asset sale start.

We all saw what happened at Govan with D&P and Sevco.

He could be.

BUT :greengrin

Why bother with the UKIO admins? The fire-sale would be held by BDO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hibee87

OK im confused now..... and this might have already been asked and/or answered but:

Ukio Bankas admin own 29.9% share and have a security over tyncastle.

UBIG (soon to be admins) own 50% of the shares.

Who exactly are BDO putting the proposal to? for example FOH offer 3 mill for the 29.9%stake including tynie, surly that means sweet FA if approved as they would still need to get the 50% stake from the UBIG admins? what would happen if they rejected any bif from FOH?

to me it looks like FOH need to agree a price with 2 seperate parties to gain control......and 3mill or even the mythical 5mill quoted would surely come no where near to the amount deemed acceptable by both parties involved?

BDO have two parties to deal with.

In money terms, it's UKIO who have to be satisfied. Their shareholding is irrelevant, it's the fact that that they have security is important. They are the only creditor who are likely to get anything. (although see below).

For there to be anything for FOH to buy, though, the shares held by UBIG have to be obtained. UBIG's administrators might want something for them.
17-10-2013, 12:18 PM
greenginger

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

He could be.

BUT :greengrin

Why bother with the UKIO admins? The fire-sale would be held by BDO.

Probably wants it to be known he is still an interested purchaser and is getting ignored by BDO so he goes over their heads to their employers.

He is a shoe salesman from Peebles after all.

If there is a fire sale it will be a private deal with FoH is the way I see it panning out.
17-10-2013, 12:22 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

Probably wants it to be known he is still an interested purchaser and is getting ignored by BDO so he goes over their heads to their employers.

He is a shoe salesman from Peebles after all.

If there is a fire sale it will be a private deal with FoH is the way I see it panning out.

Yeah, mischief-making. That crossed my mind yesterday when I saw him talking about it it on Facebook and the likes. It's like writing open-friggin-letters. What is the point, other than getting your name in the papers?

On the fire-sale point, I think BDO would do well to avoid the Sevco situation. They would, or should, make it a clear public sale.
17-10-2013, 12:22 PM
Hibee87

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

He could be.

BUT :greengrin

Why bother with the UKIO admins? The fire-sale would be held by BDO.

BDO have two parties to deal with.

In money terms, it's UKIO who have to be satisfied. Their shareholding is irrelevant, it's the fact that that they have security is important. They are the only creditor who are likely to get anything. (although see below).

For there to be anything for FOH to buy, though, the shares held by UBIG have to be obtained. UBIG's administrators might want something for them.

Thanks, understanding more now :aok:
17-10-2013, 12:24 PM
Phil D. Rolls

Quote:

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

Looks like a typical #AllIsBarry article.
Event: Hearts on the brink of liquidation.
Barry: Alex Salmond offers political help to hearts.

:agree:

If the matter becomes political. What does that mean?

Other than that, a rehash of the facts, and some innuendo. Meanwhile, a tacit admission that there may be trouble ahead.
17-10-2013, 12:26 PM
lapsedhibee

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

On the fire-sale point, I think BDO would do well to avoid the Sevco situation. They would, or should, make it a clear public sale.

Why? Have Duff and Duffer got into any trouble at all for the apparently dodgy way they selt stuff off? :dunno:
17-10-2013, 12:34 PM
Seveno

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

:agree:

If the matter becomes political. What does that mean?

Other than that, a rehash of the facts, and some innuendo. Meanwhile, a tacit admission that there may be trouble ahead.

I guess that would be if there are signs that hostilities might break out between Lithuania and Scotland. Sons of Macrae seem on manouevres in the Pentlands, for example.
17-10-2013, 12:39 PM
steakbake

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seveno

I guess that would be if there are signs that hostilities might break out between Lithuania and Scotland. Sons of Macrae seem on manouevres in the Pentlands, for example.

"Vlads army" in last line of defence.
17-10-2013, 12:53 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Why? Have Duff and Duffer got into any trouble at all for the apparently dodgy way they selt stuff off? :dunno:

Not yet.

BDO may yet raise the issue.
17-10-2013, 12:59 PM
HibbySpurs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergey

I'm not GreenGinger, but I'll pass on my opinion.

The UBIG assets were frozen by the Lith Fraud Squad for good reason - they were committing fraud on an industrial scale. These investigations haven't even got around the first lap in what could be a 60 lap race. Nothing is going to be rectified in the short term while investigations are ongoing. HoMFC are complicit in the ruse and folks will be called to task. Fedotovas and Goncaruk and hopefully Deans will be questioned. Vlad is long gone.

The shedding of the 50% shareholding simply isn't going to happen any time soon and no amount of spin by BDO and/or FoH can change the lay of the land...in this case, Lith Land.

:aok:, seems perfectly reasonable Sergey....
17-10-2013, 01:56 PM
Weststandwanab

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

I would have thought the wee oil works up the Forth Estuary should have higher priority right now.

It certainly should be and, in my opinion, will be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapillonVert

BDO beginning the softening up process for the inevitable outcome?

spot on
17-10-2013, 05:45 PM
The Falcon

When did Valnetas say that £5m was the "desired figure"? Or is #allisbarry making **** up again?
17-10-2013, 06:16 PM
The Falcon

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Why? Have Duff and Duffer got into any trouble at all for the apparently dodgy way they selt stuff off? :dunno:

The answer to that would be.....NO.
17-10-2013, 09:38 PM
hibees 7062

I see Rodneys back wi the shares :greengrin
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...Z4OM-E2z7X-mIg
18-10-2013, 12:06 PM
Kato

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Falcon

When did Valnetas say that £5m was the "desired figure"? Or is #allisbarry making **** up again?

Exactly. I don't think any figure has been made public other than "rumoured" ones. Barry as a source of "rumoured" figures has a great track record.
18-10-2013, 12:25 PM
KeithTheHibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kato

Exactly. I don't think any figure has been made public other than "rumoured" ones. Barry as a source of "rumoured" figures has a great track record.

I could be wrong but did FOH not bid 3m and were told that they would need to up the bid by millions?

If that's the case the minimum that would be is 2m which would meet the best case figure that wee Barry is quoting?
18-10-2013, 12:46 PM
Ozyhibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby

I could be wrong but did FOH not bid 3m and were told that they would need to up the bid by millions?

If that's the case the minimum that would be is 2m which would meet the best case figure that wee Barry is quoting?

I'm sure Foh's of £3m included their working capital as well and their actual bid to the Lithuanians was much lower.
18-10-2013, 01:11 PM
#FromTheCapital

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I'm sure Foh's of £3m included their working capital as well and their actual bid to the Lithuanians was much lower.

It was roughly 3m plus working capital which was to be the monthly direct debits. Had it been 3m less working capital they probably would'nt have been the preferred bidder.
18-10-2013, 02:05 PM
Dashing Bob S

Quote:

Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital

It was roughly 3m plus working capital which was to be the monthly direct debits. Had it been 3m less working capital they probably would'nt have been the preferred bidder.

They were very low, but effectively the only bidder. I don't think BDO saw the crook or the fantasist as legitimate bids.
18-10-2013, 02:08 PM
WindyMiller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

They were very low, but effectively the only bidder. I don't think BDO saw the crook or the fantasist as legitimate bids.

Which one's the M.P.?
18-10-2013, 02:16 PM
hibees 7062

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindyMiller

Which one's thr M.P.?

Both :greengrin