Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by PatHead

I would expect that they will have already included expected income from gates when calculating the shortfall just as they will have estimated expenses.

Maybe they will get more from soiled strips than they estimated. :greengrin

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Sorted that for you :wink:

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

By my reckoning they won the league by cheating in

2002/03 ahead of Celtic
2004/05 ahead of Celtic
2008/09 ahead of Celtic

The Scottish Cup in

2001/02 beating Celtic
2002/03 beating Dundee
2007/08 beating Queen of the South
2008/09 beating Falkirk

The League Cup in

2001/02 beating Ayr Utd
2002/03 beating Celtic
2004/05 beating Motherwell
2007/08 beating Dundee Utd

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Personally I think trophies should be withheld. It would be unfair on clubs who were beaten in earlier rounds otherwise.

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Originally Posted by ACLeith

Does that not presume what the advice was though? Maybe they were told it was wrong and chose to ignore it? Just guessing mind :wink:

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Going back to the BBC (?) documentary a couple of years ago, the scheme was devised by an ex-porn star, who seemed to take full responsibility for it.

However, yours is a fair point. The Courts would have to prove it, though.

In one corner, a porn star. In the other, a Hun. :greengrin

Tom English getting it tight on twitter for calling them cheats.

It's a hoot!

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Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby

So they need 2.5m to see the season out? I am quite sure they will pull that in via gate receipts.

Say 12 league games to go, 10,000 walk ups at £20 a pop gives you 200k per game. Will be tight however I reckon they will manage it. Unfortunately.

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I think that the 2.5m is in addition to the income they're expecting during the remainder of the season i.e. after the future walk ups have handed over the cash.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a scheme set up akin to FOH which would lead to the supporters coughing up a lot of the deficit in exchange for a promise of shares at some future date. Once that's taken into account, I think one or more of the directors (not likely to be King) will make up the deficit even though I think the total required will be more than 2.5m.

Like you I think they'll scrape through to the end of the season. Finding funds for the warchest the fans will be expecting next season and doing up the neglected building maintenance will be a new challenge.

It's on a knife edge so I may change my expectation if some new nasty emerges in the next few months. Ashley insisting on his loan being repaid could scupper the whole shebang.

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Originally Posted by ACLeith

So have I got this right? EBTs were a tax avoidance loophole back then but the way it was implemented - regular payments to effectively top up wages - was illegal?

What are the chances DM was innocent and did not know this? More chance of TRFC winning this season's League Cup 

Remember he said he was "duped" by Whyte? Yeah' right! Hopefully the upcoming court case washes that dirty linen in public, CG and CW know where those 'bodies are buried'.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

One would have to prove that SDM, and others, set out with the intention of defrauding HMRC. Given that, as EBT's were an accepted way of tax avoidance at that time, that would be difficult. RFC would say, rightly IMO, that they relied on professional advice.

What they have done is neglectful, which is an HMRC "offence". However, it's a big leap from there to it being criminal.

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As far as the law of the land is concerned that might be up to the courts to decide.

However the under the SFA rules the side contracts/letters, upping the wages of the employee, are not allowed. All remuneration must declared to them. SDM, agents, lawyers, players avoided declaring the side letters to the SFA.

If they thought they were legal, why not declare them to the SFA?

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Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

It does have a financial implication.
Through the 5 way agreement and as a result of their uses of EBTs as decreed in the Lord Nimmo Smith verdict they have to stump up 400k to the SPFL.

They don't seem to have that money just now and given their other problems it might explain my a Jambo pal of mine lumped on Hibs to win the Championship last night.

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Is his name Bryan? :greengrin

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Originally Posted by PatHead

Personally I think trophies should be withheld. It would be unfair on clubs who were beaten in earlier rounds otherwise.

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Ok, taking the league out of the equation.


The Scottish Cup in

2001/02 beating Berwick Rangers, Hibernian, Forfar, Partick Thistle and Celtic
2002/03 beating Arbroath, Ayr Utd, Dunfrmline, Motherwell and Dundee
2007/08 beating East Stirling, Hibernian, Partick Thistle, St Johnstone and Queen of the South
2008/09 beating St Johnstone, Forfar, Hamilton, St Mirren and Falkirk

The League Cup in

2001/02 beating Airdrie, Ross County, Celtic and Ayr Utd
2002/03 beating Hibernian, Dunfermline, Hearts and Celtic
2004/05 beating Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee Utd and Motherwell
2007/08 beating East Fife, Moterwell, Hearts and Dundee Utd

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Going back to the BBC (?) documentary a couple of years ago, the scheme was devised by an ex-porn star, who seemed to take full responsibility for it.

However, yours is a fair point. The Courts would have to prove it, though.

In one corner, a porn star. In the other, a Hun. :greengrin

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I'd forgotten about that CWG, what a tag team that would be :greengrin. Presumably could only be proven with documentary evidence? I do wonder if it exists, no point before the BTC was settled, maybe not worth it anyway now. Depending how the CW/CG/Uncle Tom Cobley and all case develops, DM's (I simply refuse to use SDM!) integrity and standing in society may plummet even further and this could be added to it - here's hoping :agree:.

@Oldfirmfacts1: As the fallout from the HMRC verdict continues, Rangers fans insist they're a new club and Celtic fans insist it's the same club.


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Originally Posted by Meeko

so this has no financial impact on Rangers because they were liquidated, fair enough so if that is the case then surely they can no longer claim to be Rangers anymore? Also funny to note the 2.5m needed to finish the season, 25 point deduction coming up!

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Is a 25 point deduction likely?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Going back to the BBC (?) documentary a couple of years ago, the scheme was devised by an ex-porn star, who seemed to take full responsibility for it.

However, yours is a fair point. The Courts would have to prove it, though.

In one corner, a porn star. In the other, a Hun. :greengrin

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In one corner a despicable pervert who prays on the lowlife of society gaining his immoral earnings. In the other a porn star.

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Originally Posted by GordonHFC

In one corner a despicable pervert who prays on the lowlife of society gaining his immoral earnings. In the other a porn star.

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:faf::faf:

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Originally Posted by mentalhibee

Is a 25 point deduction likely?

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Probably not but ssh

Old Co can appeal to a higher court can they not ? But, as my auld granny used to say "whey pays for that bawheid". But if CW can get legal aid.......

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Originally Posted by GordonHFC

In one corner a despicable pervert who prays on the lowlife of society gaining his immoral earnings. In the other a porn star.

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:greengrin

Jim Traynors last column where he has a go at the RangersTaxCase blog.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/f...spaper-1470050

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Originally Posted by Golden Fleece

Ok, taking the league out of the equation.


The Scottish Cup in

2001/02 beating Berwick Rangers, Hibernian, Forfar, Partick Thistle and Celtic
2002/03 beating Arbroath, Ayr Utd, Dunfrmline, Motherwell and Dundee
2007/08 beating East Stirling, Hibernian, Partick Thistle, St Johnstone and Queen of the South
2008/09 beating St Johnstone, Forfar, Hamilton, St Mirren and Falkirk

The League Cup in

2001/02 beating Airdrie, Ross County, Celtic and Ayr Utd
2002/03 beating Hibernian, Dunfermline, Hearts and Celtic
2004/05 beating Aberdeen, Celtic, Dundee Utd and Motherwell
2007/08 beating East Fife, Moterwell, Hearts and Dundee Utd

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I think it's only fair that we get given that particular cup...:agree:

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Originally Posted by Meeko

so this has no financial impact on Rangers because they were liquidated, fair enough so if that is the case then surely they can no longer claim to be Rangers anymore? Also funny to note the 2.5m needed to finish the season, 25 point deduction coming up!

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Not a chance they go into administration this season. They'll get the 2.5 million easily to see them through.

Mark Daly's take on things

https://t.co/i8j3bJUnn5

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Originally Posted by Steve20

Not a chance they go into administration this season. They'll get the 2.5 million easily to see them through.

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:agree: Even as a last resort, their support would easily raise £2.5m if it meant promotion to the Scottish Premiership. Assuming that a 'gift' such as that would be legal.

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Originally Posted by Steve20

Not a chance they go into administration this season. They'll get the 2.5 million easily to see them through.

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And if it's double that?


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Originally Posted by Jim44

:agree: Even as a last resort, their support would easily raise £2.5m if it meant promotion to the Scottish Premiership. Assuming that a 'gift' such as that would be legal.

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Problem is, they need the "first tranche" (however much that is) next month.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Problem is, they need the "first tranche" (however much that is) next month.

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The players rare paid on last Thursday of a month so that is only 22 days away !

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Originally Posted by Jim44

:agree: Even as a last resort, their support would easily raise £2.5m if it meant promotion to the Scottish Premiership. Assuming that a 'gift' such as that would be legal.

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Even if it isn't legal they'll still take the gift and argue for numerous years that it is legal ( just like the EBT scheme that they've just been to court over.

I can honestly say I detest them with every fibre of my being honestly I truly do.
If I play monopoly and win by cheating and everyone accuses me of cheating then I can argue till I'm blue in the face BUT even though I argue deep down I know I cheated. Make no mistake THEY KNOW IT TOO.

GGTTH

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

So you think they will raise the £2.5m they need to see out the season?

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I do - I think they'll get it from Ashley.

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Originally Posted by magpie1892

I do - I think they'll get it from Ashley.

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What have they left to offer as security?

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Originally Posted by ACLeith

What have they left to offer as security?

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I'm sure he'd settle for David Cunningham King's nut sack.

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Originally Posted by magpie1892

I do - I think they'll get it from Ashley.

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Maybe they could sell a player or two to raise funds and return some of the loan players to cut expenditure which would help them live within their means. They might make some inroads to shortfall then.

Now there is a novel idea.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

I'm sure he'd settle for David Cunningham King's nut sack.

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On a spike with him still attached :greengrin