It’s a peculiarly Scottish thing that everyone thinks that nobody would want to leave London for Scotland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
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It’s a peculiarly Scottish thing that everyone thinks that nobody would want to leave London for Scotland?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
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To be a little bit fair to him, he is literally telling everyone the party is moving back towards focussing on this sort of thing rather than identity issues. Even if he was bounced into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
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I think the poster is referring to the comfort of the job rather than the location.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Given the polls, the job security isn’t great?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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That’s a different thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I can't be "fair" to politicians who try to buy favours with things that, were they appropriate, should have been done already. (see also Thatcher, 1980's)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You can’t reverse several years of poorly focussed Governmrnt with your chosen partners in just over 24 hours. He is in a mess he inherited and failed to address.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I suppose hate is too strong a word but I just can’t agree with their policies, direction they are taking us and appointing HY as a continuity candidate.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I voted for KF in the leadership election as I thought she’d be the best to achieve independence.
SNP is hated by the majority of the business community and you’ll never win independence with that being the case.
They think making Scotland a ‘fairer’ country is the key, with their gender and hate crime bills. I just think making Scotland successful is the key to independence with fair polices that the country actually supports.
Yup, more to do with better career prospects down there especially if you're leader. Flynn is surfing a bit of a wave at the moment because of a few funny quips at PMQ's and his stance on Gaza. When questioned in more detail I'm not convinced he'd put country before himself. When questioned about forming a Constitutional Convention he wasn't interested, when asked about who was Sovereign in Scotland he answered the UK Parliament and my latest annoyance was when he was sounding off about Scotlands vast opportunities in Green Energy in front of a backdrop of a huge windmill heading out to sea, the problem being it was in Cromarty.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I've no doubt though that if he became FM it would bring a lot of voters back to the SNP.
Of course. I personally don’t think he can do it and it will need to be someone else but it will take consistent effort over time.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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Agreed, it’s a long term job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Rachel Reeves here, telling Scotland what she and Labour have decided.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMFkeq9W...pg&name=mediumQuote:
Originally Posted by MP for Leeds West
You're LEEDS Rachel. LEEDS!! Not LEITH 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Just showing again that "Scottish" Labour is a myth. Westminster Labour telling Sarwar what to jump and he asks how high?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Scot gov recently cut the budget by £200 million they have only partially recovered this by giving back £40mil per year, smoke and mirrorsQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Brian McLauchlin from Scottish federation of housing associations
@BrianSFHA
The Scottish Government originally cut the budget by £196m. Whilst it's welcome they've partially restored a bit of this, it pales in comparison to what we've lost
Very Thatcherite behaviourQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Indeed :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
It’s not enough but it’s a start on re-focussing the party. Won’t be enough for him but the party has to make a start. New leader is needed now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Yep better together tactical voting buddies. SweetQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
AgreeQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
The right thing to do for the people of Scotland 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
That's a stupid post. Opposition parties take every opportunity put the government of the day in trouble. If Labour had dumped the Greens, Humza Youself would be supporting the ToriesQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Thanks for your feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
I hope you enjoy supporting the Tories. Personally it would turn my stomach.
I wouldn’t call any other poster here or their posts stupid, it’s all about opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
You are right though , this isn’t a vote with the Tories , it’s a vote against the First Minister which I think the majority of us understand. . If the SNP try to fight an election on the basis that there is no difference between the Tories and Labour then, as some senior SNP MP’s have warned against, ’they will get the defeat they deserve. If Yousaf falls and Forbes becomes leader it will be an impossible sell anyway.
Madness. Of course Labour wants to bring the SNP government down, they would probably be favourites to take hold of the chamber. They shouldn't be a party if they didn't want thatQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Except when you're the SNP, then you're Tartan Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
Hooray …you have finally grasped the truth 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
This is the beauty of political debate 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
The SNP debaters are regularly reminded by the Labour side about the SNP voting with the torys that subsequently ushered in Thatcher.
We could have a sweep to see when it will happen next 😉
Doubt it will …Thatcher (Thankfully) has been dead since 2013 :greengrin:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Labour are bringing down SNP to bring in Labour is completely different to bringing down Labour to bring in tories. It's still terrible patter to blame the current SNP for something that happened decades ago, it's like praising trump for the republicans helping stop slaveryQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
The SNP had voted with the government in a vote of no confidence the year before. In the months following that vote we had a referendum on devolution with the majority voting for but Labour then denying the result based on a last minute amendment, we had dead bodies piling up in the morgues, rubbish littering our streets and the country basically grinding to a halt because of the worst Labour government in living history. To say that the SNP's sole intention was to pave the way for Thatcher is being naive to what was actually going on at the time. There were more Liberal MP'S than SNP that voted against that toxic government. Labour and Labour alone were to blame for their own downfall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Harvey saying on the news its clear Humza has lost the parliament and that the SNP should now replace him. Said he could back another SNP but says he won't back Kate Forbes. Tail wagging the dug again? Humza said today that he wouldn't necessarily rule out talking to Alba. I'll be SNP 1 2 as we haven't got a credible 2nd vote party. Unless Gray wins then I'll start following shinty or something as 4 years of the same but duller is a waste of everyone's time
Maybe the only way to the party could be freshened up properly would be with a period out of Government. Just a thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
You're probably right, but every other party fills me with dread at the thought of what they'd do in government.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Selfishly with two teenagers looking like going to uni, I’m dreading tuition fees for them both. Young people getting it hard enough just now. Labour will almost certainly bring them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
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I didn’t mention it in order to kickstart a discussion about the merits or otherwise of the other parties. It was just an observation. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
SNP aren't nearly as bad as the others but there really needs to be a restart. Rumours Flynn pushing the ending of BHA and also Humza to try and stay on makes me think he'll try for a Holyrood seat..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I've thought the same but dread what the others would do, maybe just a right good kicking at Westminster elections might refocus them for the Scottish elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I just think it’s pretty clear for most to see that the party allowed the green to have way too much influence and that SNP themselves have moved a bit too much away from what your average voter cares about. If the SNP can’t see this and allow a new leader to cosy up with the greens again it’s going to cost them big time at the polls.
If Humza is still in charge my vote will likely go to Labour although I’m not actually convinced by Sarwar either. If Humza goes and Kate Forbes or someone else who inspires a bit more confidence takes the helm then SNP will probably get my vote.
The votes that SNP need to target to win the next election are people who will otherwise vote Labour. Diehard Yes voters will probably vote SNP regardless and Diehard unionists will probably vote Labour or Tory regardless. It’s the majority who won’t base their vote solely on independence who need targeted and at the moment SNP just don’t have the same reliable feel that they had at the last election.
Scottish Labour or UK Labour aren’t doing anything particularly inspiring at the moment yet will win the UK election and have a good shot at the Scottish elections purely became the current governments are not doing a good enough job (not that the SNP are doing half as bad as the tories thank god).
As for the Lib Dem’s, I couldn’t tell you who their leader is without googling or what they stand for now which is a shame as prior to them entering the coalition government a few years back now they felt like a good alternative to the rest.
The SNP like many parties who have been in power for a long time just run out of steam. Changing Humza is must but electing Kate Forbes will be similar Sunak. She is too right wing and her personal views are not compatible with the majority of Scotland. There were people in the Labour that thought Scotland would always vote Labour now we are people with same attitude in the SNP.
Forbes took 48% of the SNP membership vote, a membership who are generally to the left of the average Scottish voter. Of the 52% who voted Humza we can assume that at least some of them would be happy with or tolerate her and simply preferred Humza at that time. She might be too right wing for a portion of the SNP voters (many of whom would still vote for the SNP anyway), but she’s not to right wing for many of the voters that SNP are going to have to sway their way if they want to win the election.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky
She’s obviously got her own personal religious views, something we righty try not to hold against people these days, yet in contradiction to these views still supports buffer zones around abortion clinics. As practicing Muslims it’s more than possible that Humza and Sanwar hold certain personal views the majority of Scotland wouldn’t hold but as long as that doesn’t translate into attempts to shape policy then it’s not really relevant IMO.
The trade union movement didn’t cover themselves in glory during Callaghan’s Labour government, particularly in its final years. Too many ideologues, driven by an extreme left agenda which didn’t necessarily reflect the views or best interests of their membership, nor that of the wider public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
They contributed to the carnage and gave the Thatcherite Tories a huge propaganda weapon. I’m sure the SNP leadership ( then right of centre) saw the vote of no confidence as payback for Labour’s devolution betrayal.
The furore around Forbes religious views was ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
There were people on this very forum stating Forbes religious views made her intolerant but then openly stated their own belief that people who had a faith should be banned from positions of power and influence in Scotland. That just screams tolerance so it does.
A lot of the issues that were brought up are already enshrined in law. Same sex marriage, the right to abortion and so on. It would be political suicide for any leader to try and row back on those in Scotland. It was a non issue. Even when she explained that her own personal views on how she should liver her own life didn't overlap with her views on what others should be free to do there were people desperate to pick up on hidden meanings. The media indulged that and she was subjected to far more intense scrutiny of her religion than Humza was, journalists were desperate to trip her up and people lapped it up.
I'm no fan of the wee frees as an institution but like any organisation there will be a wide array of people who practice. Those who are more liberal, strict traditionalists, nice people, closed minded bigots and everything in between.
There was a very vocal group of people who were far more intolerant of Kate Forbes than she seemed to be of others when she spoke. Personally I'm not sold on her from a political ideology standpoint but if I was an SNP supporter/voter I'd see her as a safe pair of hands who would steady the ship which seems badly needed.
More importantly, she seems to know why she wants to be FM. I’m not sure Yousaf does? He appears to just get blown in whatever direction the wind is going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The problem for Forbes at this point is that the Greens will not work with her so she will have to build alliances with others that the party membership may find hard to tolerate.
Yup. People seem to forget Salmond relied on working closely with the Conservatives when running a minority Government in 2007 - 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I suppose it’s all a bit more polarised these days.
I'm sure it is more polarised. But I think the point I'd make is that the Tories today are very different from the Tories of 2007. They're fascists today. I want nothing to do with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Good article about the VONC that brought down the callaghan government in the Sunday National today, they lost by 331 to 330 and there was talk of bringing a labour MP from Yorkshire in an ambulance to get the numbers. Decided they had the numbers so didn't. He died a few weeks later. If only they had taken the risk people wouldn't be blaming the SNP for Thatcherism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/24283390.andrew-tickell-humza-yousaf-ahead-no-confidence-vote/
Think you’ve proven my point quite nicely [emoji2957]Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Are you suggesting the Tories have not changed? They're basically the BNP these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Assuming Yousaf resigns as expected today rumours are that Forbes and Gilruth are gathering support.
Is incredible how badly the end of sturgeon’s tenure has gone.
The final icing on the cake…her continuity candidate is going to be outed ironically for continuing her polices.
I have a lot of admiration for sturgeon but between that and her husband, who of course is innocent until proven otherwise, it’s been a spectacular fall from grace.
The unionist parties and media couldn’t have orchestrated it any better.
I'm not sure it's fair to label the Scottish Tories as fascists. They have always been to the left of their Westminster colleagues, and they still are.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I can't think of any Scottish Tories who would fit in with the ideology of the current UK Government. Fraser perhaps, but for me he's more of a wind-up merchant than anything else.
Whether any of them are competent enough to work in Government is a different matter, though.....
Douglas Ross and his comments about travellers and voting record on same sex marriage make him very much like the rest of the Westminster Tories.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
That boy that looks like he is breaking in a set of teeth for a horse is quite far to the right as well.
Murdo Fraser was a leading light in the federation of conservative students, a group that was disbanded by norman tebbit for being too right wing for the parties liking. Being viewed as too right wing by tebbit during thatchers leadership of party should have alarm bells ringing.
In my prejudiced view of most politicians, I'd be saying "does he actually mean all that?", or is just saying that to curry favour with his bosses?Quote:
Originally Posted by degenerated
"Only following orders" springs to mind. :cb
Ian Blackford on live from Westminster saying John Swinney is the man for the job.
John swinney won't stand, he doesn't want it permanent but could be caretaker manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
He’s making a speech to the media at 13:15 so we’ll find out soon enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Maybe only candidate greens will supportQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Isn't he down at Westminster for a meeting?Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
No idea what he’s doing, it was just sky news said he was coming to speak to them live from Queen Anne’s Gate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Which is half a mile from Westminster!Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
OK, 10 minutes since he spoke to sky news in London. What did he say?
Not been on yet, he’s running late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
He's not even running 😁
Asked whether he wants to be the next first minister at a Resolution Foundation event, Swinney said: “It’s a hypothetical question.”
He added that the job is a very “demanding role” and that “it takes a lot of thinking about”.
Speaking to Sky News earlier this morning, Swinney also said: “There’s a lot to happen today, and we’ll wait to hear what the FM’s got to say later on today.”
Nobody said he was running but he was running late and has just done the live interview now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I missed the start but sounds like he still needs to persuade his family that it’s the right thing to do before he commits to anything.
Sky news saying that swinney is considering it. He would steady the ship but I think he would stand down after the next Scottish election regardless of outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I stand by what I said, he doesn't want it permanently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hibee
Did you miss the smile?
The family is very much at the front of his thoughts. His wife has 2nd stage MS and one of his sons has mobility issues. Becoming first minister means a lot more time away from home. He is my MSP.
I wasn't seeking to differentiate between the Scottish Tories and their WM counterparts. I was really just talking about the 2024 Tory party as a whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
No, didn’t miss it [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Just watched it back, I thought he was honest and spoke quite well, get the impression he’d like the job but knows deep down it’s not right for his family.
If I was him I’d very much put the family first and not go for it.
Nothing says we are just waiting for Labour to take over in 2026 than appointing John Swinney. It would be like admitting we have nothing else to offer.
I don’t think he can win anyway.
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If Swinney is the answer then the wrong question is being asked. Has nothing been learned from the whole Yousaf debacle?
Greens have done enough damage for their opinion to count one iota. In an ideal world they would bomb out Harvey and get someone focused on the environment and SNP get someone focused on getting independence. I know that sounds fanciful nowadays but we can but dreamQuote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Yep, just an attempt to keep Forbes out. It'll just strengthen Labours position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If the greens want to return any seats in 2026 they will need to back whoever is the new leader and FM. They have gained seats mostly as the 2nd independence party and will co tinge to do so if they support the government. If they don't they will be consined to history. Alba won't get many votes either as they are toxic and all about Salmond rather than anything else. He was pushing the narrative that Regan was the most powerful MSP all weekend, while all the time it was him doing the press rounds himself. SNP 1 and 2 may be the best solution as it was before
Douglas Ross talking up Swinney’s chances on the news there. Tells you all you need to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiber-nation
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SNP 1 and 2 is absolutely the best for SNP voters. It’s what worked best in 2011 and can do so again.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
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Both Westminster and Hollyrood on three PM/FM’s in the one electoral term. Shambolic.
We don’t vote for Presidents in this country. I don’t see what is so hard to understand. Parties have been changing leader mid term my whole life in this country and still people seem to struggle with the idea in their head?Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Sunak is just as legitimate a PM as Johnson(also came in mid term) was. All parties do it because that’s is how the system is designed to work.
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I just basically did what I was told and voted green second vote as I wanted independence candidates. It baffles me they couldn't get a competent SNP b team together. Why anyone would get Salmond to front a party after his bad press is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
My preference would be generic independence party but i think a labour for independence party would take votes from some old Comrades that have voted labour and always will
Don’t discount the Greens doing a deal with Labour after the next Holyrood election. They’re careerist chancers.Quote:
Originally Posted by weecounty hibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Exactly . Flynn and Forbes etc maybe know they are onto a hiding so keeping their powder dry for a relaunch after the election.
In saying that, Flynn would probably be the favourite in that scenario so Forbes wants it she may have to bite the bullet and go for it now
I think that’s about right. You don’t wait for these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
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https://x.com/thenewsagents/status/1...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
Flynn rules himself out and backs Swinney.
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Still means at a time where we have the cost of living crisis and numerous other issues putting stress upon the population, focus is taken from that and put upon the issues within the SNP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Be honest, if this was Sunak standing down forcing another leadership selection (or even if Starmer was ousted), the SNP followers on here would be pointing to it as a shambles.
They could at least pretend to be putting the needs of the country first. Forbes is going to ruffle more than a few feathers if she decides not to play along with this coronation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think we are here because people in the SNP thought the deal with the greens was not in the interests of the people of Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
People will soon have their chance to pass judgement on it all.
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Hope she stands. Swinney can probably keep the hot seat warm for Flynn but that’s not in the interests of everyone else. If Flynn wants it, he should go for it rather than try engineer this.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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If Forbes has any brains then she'll rule herself out asap and keep her powder dry for another day. If the big wigs are backing Swinney publicly then that is who they want and there seems little to be gained by going against that; particularly with a poor election showing (by recent standards) in the pipeline. A single candidate probably suits them SNP heirarchy as they can play the unity card.
She has the reason of a young family. Rule herself out at this time, pledge support to the new leader and take a frontline job if offered and prove herself, once again, to be competent and charismatic.
Swinney, should it be him, won't last long and that's the time to act. Losing out to him and/or pissing off the high head yins probably leaves her in the wilderness. I'd say the same of almost anyone with aspirations going forward. Anyone standing against Flynn in the medium term can use his backing/the coronation of Swinney against him. In the short term it feels like a lose lose.
That’s probably about right. She would probably win among the members but that’s no good if your colleagues want someone else. Whoever wins needs both constituencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
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Oh you're right, it is a shambles. The difference being that if it was Sunak, the papers wouldn't run it, the BBC wouldn't mention it and the next day we'd all be talking about something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
This is probably a bit controversial, but I think I'd prefer somebody that doesn't have particularly strong religious views/leanings.
I'm not meaning this as a dig at people that have religions like Islam or the Free Church, as that is their right, it's just that we now live in a mostly secular society and we need somebody in charge that reflects that.
Mhairi Black anyone??
That’s move wouldn’t gain a single vote from anyone who wouldn’t vote SNP regardless. Labour are still pretty uninspiring despite their decent polling, and Tory’s are in freefall and their vote is going to plummet. I think a large percentage electorate’s votes are still up for grabs and if the SNP appoint the right person they can still win the election with ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Salmond and Sturgeon gained votes from non independence oriented voters by appealing to the average Scot and I really don’t think Hughes can do that.
Swinney would be like a Sam Allerdyce appointment. He is of course a very capable politician, but I would guess that if he took charge, the burning question would be when is he going to leave.
Pretty bigoted that though. I'm not religious but to say no Muslim should be FM is Pretty messed up. I don't think Humza, Sarwar or Forbes would put religion in the way at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Swinney is dug meat. He probably knows he's a fall guy. No as bad as Gilruth, Gray, Mcallan continuity puppets, but utterly awful. With a fair wind and huge luck he might get near the 27 MPs he got last time but it's doubtful.Quote:
Originally Posted by NORTHERNHIBBY
Swinney said it was game playing for the tories to install a new leader without calling an election so I assume there will be one soon. Sturgeon said it was an democratic imperative so she will back Swinney asking for Scottish elections.
Or the trough might be too delicious
Absolute truthQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Been thinking about starting a thread for Reform UK. But I haven't done it yet, and this post is tangentially about Yousaf, I'll post it here.
How's this for overt racism?
Yousaf, born in Rutherglen
Kahn, born in Tooting, London
Habib, born in Karachi.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMWTLLkX...jpg&name=large