Hamas attack on Israel

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

A “security expert” was interviewed on Al Jazeera news yesterday and he was of the opinion the Isreal would find it very difficult to beat Hamas in a guerilla warfare campaign on the ground. This is due, he reckons, to the labyrinth of underground tunnels and shelters which have been built over the last 17 years. He said they are so deep and fortified that they are virtually bomb proof against air attacks.

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I think this is the best article I've read on the matter a number of opinions. It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-eas...mobilewebshare

Taking Gaza Would Be Possible, Sieges From Mosul to Mariupol Show—but at a Steep Cost

Israel’s planned land campaign against Hamas promises to be destructive and bloody as urban warfare favors defenders

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It'll be possible as a siege but it'll cost thousands of lives on each side. Urban attacks are about as brutal as possible to complete for the attacker.

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Or as the armywallahs phrase things, 'very heavy on resources'.

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

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Originally Posted by DaveF

The Israeli govt responses to the UN are jaw dropping. Any sympathy I had following the Hamas attacks is quickly draining. They are blinded by hatred. It's horrific.

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There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...ign_type=owned

More than two weeks later Sarwar gets round to commenting. Hope he realises that FM is a full time gig if he gets it.


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I've seen him talk about it a few times. He was another one that believed the Hamas line on the hospital bombing

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status...vwqPFCjqA&s=19

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

There's also been a good few Israeli army/government spokespeeps that have launched into angry rants on radio/tv because interviewers have failed to be as gung-ho as they are themselves about strikes on Gaza. Hard to tell sometimes whether they've hated the interviewers or Hamas more.

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It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

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Originally Posted by McSwanky

Interesting thread from the NY Times

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status...vwqPFCjqA&s=19

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The first reply is best. An investigation that doesn't look at the blast site isn't an investigation. US, Canada, Germany, France and UK military intelligence could be wrong but they say the small crater was created by a small rocket around 5kg. Videos and audio are speculation satellite imagery is undisputed.

To be fair the thread does say it doesn't know what hit it but they should look at the crater. Hamas could just show the wreckage and end this in but they say it's the first ever missle to completely disintegrate. Just show what hit it Hamas?

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Originally Posted by 500miles

It does seem like for some this is an excuse to ethnically cleanse Palestine and reclaim the whole of the Holy land as part of a religious mission.

Maybe because Netenyahu leaned on these kinds of extremists for support for so many years now.

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I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717...637121084?s=20

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Originally Posted by ITV Political Correspondent

Blimey - multiple Labour MPs telling me that a couple of shadow cabinet members are considering resigning over Keir Starmer’s handling of the Gaza situation

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I've seen a few articles from Isrealis saying Netanyahu propped up Hamas due to him wanting to degrade PA and Abbas

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tim...our-faces/amp/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces
The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from

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Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

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Originally Posted by grunt

https://x.com/ShehabKhan/status/1717...637121084?s=20

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Quite a few councillors have already resigned. Starmer has made a pigs ear of remaining loyal to Isreal and the zionists among them

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Isreal has broad support among western governments but support has reduced massively among the public over the last 20 years. Eventually western govts will have to respond to that. Another few years and Isreal could find itself very isolated.
Even in the US support is draining away from Isreal. Biden is an old supporter but the younger generation of democrats are not. There will be changes over the next few years.


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Support for isreal has slowly dropped over the last 15 years but I saw a poll last week that had support back up to 90s levels due to the attacks. This could be a temporary bounce though

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

Isolated politically and starved of any military support would be just fine, although unlikely.

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A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

A defenceless Israel would lead to the next holocaust, the hatred is such that there are elements amongst their neighbours that would happily see every Israeli man, woman and child have their throats slit.

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There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

There are elements among the Israeli’s who would happily see every Palestinian man woman and child have their throats slit. I would hope that the west would give the Israelis the support and help they need to avoid that scenario. Help they denied the Palestinians.

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I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I thought you just said it would be fine to starve them of any military and political support. My mistake.

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I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

I did. However, that would be to neuter them as a force in the middle east. If another holocaust was on the horizon then that would require other considerations.

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Another holocaust is on the horizon, it's only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://x.com/treyyingst/status/1717...dxJXScFNwz8V4A

2000 dead Palestinian children so far.


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70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Another holocaust is on the horizon, its only Israeli military force and external support that's stopping it.

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I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

70% of the dead in Gaza are women or children. That is some targeting of Hamas by the Israelis.

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I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

I know it's Hamas figures including the 500 from the hospital, but how are women and children so high. I'd thought if you randomly chucked bombs it would be less and I've seen dozens of satellite videos of destroyed Hamas infantry vehicles and a 2 what are clearly military barracks.

The destruction in Gaza will undoubtedly have cost hundreds of children's lives though. Camps with facilities need built in the south if Isreal are going to indiscriminately flatten the North

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Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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Originally Posted by MKHIBEE

I’m seeing a genocide on the horizon supported by Israeli military force and external support.

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Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Children make up more than half the population of Gaza.


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I had read that but I just read 26% are adult males. That's ridiculously poor targeting with mostly guided weapons, shocking. They need to be justifying their strikes more

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Was going to answer on the Labour thread but better here.

I agree that they shouldn't be carpet bombing like they are but are people saying it should be a permanent and complete ceasefire. Surely that means Hamas regroup and get away with killing over 1000 Isrealis and what's to deter them doing it again.

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I doubt the 4000+ killed and the 16000+ injured think Hamas ” got away” with anything. Indeed, many might see it as retribution for the murder, oppression and brutality Isreal have visited upon the Palestinians over 75 years.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Me too and therein lies the problem. We have 2 opposing sides sharing territory who are mortal enemies. The only solution other than genocide is a political one but both sides are so entrenched in the belief that the land is rightfully theirs, that 70 years of mediation has failed. If Israel want peace they will have to compromise and if the Palestinians want peace they will have to accept the state of Israel. None of that will happen anytime soon. Even if both sides came to agreement, outside influences would ensure it all kicks off again.

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A never ending circle of violence and oppression seems to be the resultant scenario