Vaccine Passports for Easter Road

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Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge

If you were to catch covid for a second time, the vaccine will help stimulate anti-bodies and reduces the risk of transmission to others, and therefore reduce any symptoms you may have. Even if you ended up with zero symptoms, surely the factor alone that it reduces the chances of possible transmission to those more vulnerable would make you think it’s worthwhile.

Sorry but I feel as if your approach is a very selfish one. Personally, if it helps save peoples lives then I’m more than happy to help by taking the vaccine.. Being fairly young myself, and not having had covid before, it’s quite simply a no brainer. As time goes on the vaccine will make improvements as it would in a normal “development” scenario which may take years but this version is a remarkable feat in itself as one which the world should not take lightly. It’s a crying shame that those who are anti vax or believe all the nonsense stuff they read online are having as much of an influence on some, as it may just end up costing someone else’s life.

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With regards to your last sentence there’s no maybe about it. These people HAVE cost people their lives already and will cost a whole lot more.

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Originally Posted by superfurryhibby

I wonder where all this will end?

I'm fully vaccinated, but I'm also deeply concerned about the erosion of freedoms and liberties that we're seeing. I'm massively against coercive approaches to promoting vaccination.

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Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

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Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

I am not antivax, I would not try and influence anyone else's decision to have it or not. I would just rather wait until a bit more research is done into this. I get that the majority think my views are stupid and I have already said that I am willing to deal with not being allowed into events etc. I will continue with the antibody trial I am doing and at the end of that or when other information comes available then I may get it.

I do think that any sort of vaccine passport is starting on a slippery slope though but again I realise I'm in the minority with that.

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You already have tried to influence people with what you have posted on here. Dangerous stuff when you claim to have a degree on the subject. Then when questioned about it you admit it is a forensic biology degree you have and not virology.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

An approved drug, or vaccine, that is approved by scientists for use on the population is most definately experimental!!

Out of curiousity, do you test regularly?

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Yes I do. Twice a week. You?

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Originally Posted by calumhibee1

With regards to your last sentence there’s no maybe about it. These people HAVE cost people their lives already and will cost a whole lot more.

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Yeah that's a fair comment Calum.

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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You don’t see what purpose having to prove you’ve had a vaccine and are therefore numerous times safer to everyone else in attendance serves?l and the only reason you can see for introducing this is data collection? Really?

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07/when-will-covid-19-vaccines-be-fully-approved-and-does-it-matter-if-they-are

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You can get this information from studies by reputable organisations with a simple search on Google that takes about two seconds. It won't be a case of you missing anything. You've obviously not actually looked for the information.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

Your not in the minority, seem to be on this site, but literally hundreds of protests all over the world been going on over the use of ‘passports’ as it’s morally and ethically wrong and coercive in nature.

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If it helps save lives, then what's the issue with passports?

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Originally Posted by neil7908

But its not about their health. It's about the health of others. This "I'm alright Jack" stuff keeps coming up. They will almost certainly be fine (although they have less chance of issues if vaccinated).

They are putting others at greater risk by not getting it.

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We are all making choices about putting others at risk. I rarely go anywhere that there are crowds or groups of people. The fitba is my one exception. SHould I be groaning every time I see the supermarket car parks mobbed or kids walking down the road together arm in arm. By going to teh fitba I am adopting an I'm alright Jack attitude and so is everyone else that attends vaccinated or not

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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To stop people who are unvaccinated, and therefore much more likely to be a strain on the NHS if they do catch it, going to big events where there would be a higher chance of transmission.

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Originally Posted by CentreLine

The vaccine works in a different way to having had the virus. Exposure to the virus allows the body’s immune system to recognise and fight infection. One reason that COVID-19 has been so effective is that it actually uses some of the body’s defensive enzymes to penetrate the body. These enzymes are especially found in the nasal passage, the lungs and the gut.

The vaccine has been developed without using parts of covid-19 but instead caused the body to reject the spike proteins on the virus. No vaccine is 100% effective but this model has so far proved very capable of keeping people safe.
The benefit of this change to vaccine manufacture is that, at least in theory, the way for the virus to overcome this defence is to dispense with its spike proteins. That, of course, would be counter productive and a victory for modern science. Fingers crossed 🤞

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Thank you for actually answering the question

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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How can you not see its purpose? It has only one purpose. Proof that a person has been fully vaccinated, therefore less likely to spread the virus. That's the whole point of it.

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Can you explain why my own bodies response to having it would be less effective than being double jagged when the jags are basically doing the same thing as my body has done and cause the production of antibodies?

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if there is something I have completely missed.

This touches on the fact that they are still classed as experimental however is now a month old:
https://www.science.org/news/2021/07...er-if-they-are

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We can all use Google. :wink:

https://fullfact.org/online/covid-va...al-experiment/

https://www.reuters.com/article/fact...-idUSL1N2M70MW

https://theconversation.com/you-dont...nthetic-166268

https://theconversation.com/covid-19...ariants-166757

https://theconversation.com/what-hap...own-ups-164624

https://theconversation.com/pfizers-...-pharma-166709

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Originally Posted by Casey1875

Yes I do. Twice a week. You?

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No, but I rarely meet other people and still wear a mask, avoid crowds, keep a distance etc. I'm not taking risks that would put me in the position of possibly catching Covid. I realise it is easy for me living in a small rural community and not in a city, but there you have it.

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I know a girl who is the same. She is into yoga etc and her and lots of her friends have had Covid with hardly any ill effects. Her friends who have had vaccines have all been more ill than those who haven't. All anecdotal but it is fairly clear the fitter and stronger you are the less likely that you will suffer major consequences. Her friends all eat very well and are fit and take wellbeing very seriously. They have made an educated choice and not taken the vaccine. I respect them for than particularly as the girl I know has already had the virus and built up immunity. As a fat 50 odd year old I took the vaccine.

If this is all about safety then everyone who hasn't had two jags should not be allowed to attend regardless of age or medical status.

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My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

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Originally Posted by HFCdeb

Same. Fully vaxxed but have deep concerns about the "passport" so will probably forego football and large events if that is the only way to get in. I don't see what purpose the document serves in the fight against covid other than data collection for God knows whom.

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As has been said, companies are snooping on you all the time.

Use Google = data.

Facebook account = data

Shop online = data

Sainsburys Nectar card = data

Use your debit card = data

Pretty sure the nefarious data miners already know that you are a Hibernian Fan.

J

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Originally Posted by MartinfaePorty

My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

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I think that’s shocking btw. Does the chiro have a sign up saying they aren’t bothering getting the jab?

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Originally Posted by Brightside

I think that’s shocking btw. Does the chiro have a sign up saying they aren’t bothering getting the jab?

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Nope. I've actually not had an appointment for a few weeks and my wife only told me this last week, so haven't been back since I found out. I would hope she is telling all her patients to give them the option whether to continue with her.

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Originally Posted by ElginHibbie

To stop people who are unvaccinated, and therefore much more likely to be a strain on the NHS if they do catch it, going to big events where there would be a higher chance of transmission.

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That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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Originally Posted by MartinfaePorty

My chiropractor is exactly the same. Feels she can 'handle' getting Covid by keeping fit and healthy and believes there are more negatives than positives for her getting the jag. Has actually made me think twice about whether I'll be going back to her. There is no doubt, though, that your overall health condition is a major factor and 'MD' in Private Eye has been saying throughout that keeping fit and healthy is the best way to protect yourself against any disease and its effects, and I hope that this drives the government to invest more in encouraging the country to be healthier.

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Chiropractors are Shamen aping physiotherapists.

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Originally Posted by bingo70

Doesn’t matter, it’s more than 10,000 people there so it will be needed

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And rightly so.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Brightside

Yes. Hence why they were all invited to a meeting with government advisors to try and persuade them to stop reading crap off Facebook and go and get jabbed. The clubs aren’t allowed to force it on them and the majority do not have 2 jabs!!

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Cheers, it’ll be tough convincing fans to get fully vaccinated for entry into stadiums when players aren’t.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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You've fallen prey to base-rate fallacy.

The absolute number of double-vaccinated people admitted to hospital is higher because there are far more of them (3.4m vs 1m according to the report you linked to).

You can see from the '% Admissions' columns that unvaccinated people are approximately twice as likely to be hospitalised compared to double-vaccinated people (0.015% vs 0.008%).

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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Bottom of page 41 paraphrasing as couldn't copy it 'since 10 May 2021 a larger proportion of Covid 19 related acute admissions have occurred in unvaccinated populations than populations with one of two doses'.

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

That’s simply not the case.

Latest data: https://publichealthscotland.scot/me...ion_report.pdf

Scroll to page 40.

Although I even take this with a pinch of salt due to the efficacy of the tests and the well known false positive figures..but admissions to hospital is the real bottom line for me.

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There are more people in hospital who are single or double dose vaccinated than those who are unvaccinated. That is of course more due to age and underlying health issues but it is important because those who are choosing to not be vaccinated are being demonised and called selfish etc. Those who are vaccinated may be more likely to socialise and go out so it may be they are just as or more selfish that those that are unvaccinated. Anyone who wants to go to ER because they are vaccinated and wants to stops others doing so because they refuse to carry a bit of paper(you can still be vaccinated but want it to be kept private like your other medical history) is surely being selfish too. The numbers in hospital must show that vaccinated people are taking risks so if they are and they have a chance, albeit reduced, then they are also posing a risk for others. Those in hospital who are vaccinated have actually caught Covid so they clearly took some chances and that would have impacted on others.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

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Per person, they are a bigger strain on the NHS. If they were all double vaccinated, the total number of hospital admissions would be lower.

You say you get the % comparison but it doesn't seem like you do.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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It’s not our body that creates a new spike protein. What the vaccine does is prevents the covid-19 virus spike proteins from connecting to our bodies.

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Originally Posted by RoscoHibby

I’m simply pointing out that unvaxxed aren’t being a bigger strain on the NHS, as was said earlier. I get the % comparison.

The one thing that seems lost on a lot of people here is no one, not a single person on this planet knows the long term implications of ‘training’ our DNA to make a spike protein that’s new to the human body…time will tell.

But comparing the risk factors of covid to an adverse reaction, from data from people in my age range, it’s a no-brainer for me not to get it. Especially with the data coming out of Israel re. It’s efficacy.

FWIW this whole thing makes me incredibly sad, we’re all hibbys, I’d have a pint with anyone on here as we’re all bonded by this crazy and beautiful club…

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This is so misreprentitive of the data as to seem dishonest, and to end your post with glib bonhomie seems like deflection.

The data shown, particularly in Israel (since you've used that example) the vaccine is overwhelmingly effective in reducing hospitalisation and severe illness.

I've copied over a response to various anti vax talking points, particularly since you're so worried about the long term effects.

What does seem to reduce over time is immunity, particularly in the face of the delta variant. This suggests that a regime similar to the flu jag for the most at risk may be the way forward.


mRNA vaccines have been being studied for over a decade (including human trials).Current COVID vaccines have been extremely well studied, with sample sizes of hundreds of thousands of people, and studies have been compiled into large meta-analyses/systematic reviews. Thus, the short-term risks of the vaccines are extremely well-documented, and the benefits outweigh the risks.

The only “unknown” is about long-term effects; however no vaccine has ever caused the type of widespread, serious side effect years down the road that everyone is afraid of.Nearly all side effects occur shortly after vaccination .The only example of a sided effect that showed up months later appear within a year (whereas we’ve been using COVID vaccines for over a year) and was rare. The vaccine benefits still outweighed the risks.

Vaccines rarely cause long-term (future) side effects because they use low doses over a short time.Vaccines simply train your immune system.Vaccines are quickly removed from the body.Most vaccine components were well-studied, and their safety is known.

mRNA does not alter your DNA.

mRNA is very quickly broken down and removed.

mRNA in vaccines cannot make your body produce entire viruses.You are constantly exposed to mRNA from viruses (e.g., from colds)If you catch COVID, your cells will use viral mRNA to make proteins just like they do from the vaccine, but…Your cells will make entire viruses, not just a single protein.You will be exposed to far higher levels of mRNA.

Side effects from immune stimulation will usually happen right away and will usually be worse from actual infection with COVID.

A demand for long-term studies is meaningless unless you can justify why a particular length of time is needed.No matter how long something has been studied, it is always technically possible that an effect won’t show up until slightly after the length of that study.This is true for all medications, foods, minerals, vitamins, etc., yet we don’t fear most of them.Therefore, you must provide actual evidence or reasoning to think that a futre side-effect is actually likely.

Focusing on a highly-unlikely, unknown, hypothetical risk from the vaccine while downplaying the very real and serious risk from COVID is bad risk assessment.Fears over unknown long-term effects of the vaccines are baseless. The burden of proof is on anyone claiming that the vaccines are dangerous.