The EU Referendum (How did you vote?)

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What is meant by "what currency"? The name they're going to call it? How much it will be worth? What it will look like?

As for "benefits, pensions, wages, travel money, market jobs etc etc". Ask the UK Government what these things are going to look like several years down the line in the UK and you'll get a strikingly similar response from them.

They can't guarentee the strength of the GBP several years down the line anymore than the Scottish Government can for a new established currency.

Unionists mock the SNP for failing to give guarantees that not even countries who already have their own established currencies can give.

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You are completely missing the point, deliberately or not I am not sure.

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

It’s simple for me. The people who live in Scotland should decide everything for the people of Scotland.

Whether that is deciding to cede some policy to the EU or not. It’s the choice for the people of Scotland to make. No one else.

J

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The Folk of Scotland made their voice very well known just a few years ago by proclaiming to remain within the United Kingdom.

Are you an idiot or decided to simply ignore an unambigious vote result?

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Seriously?

You're either completely pished or the fool leading the poor and weak into complete poverty and some into probably death through destitute and non care/

Do you ever think before 'fife' posting?

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Thanks for that last post, for a good while I've thought you were a bit of a 'slow' Labour supporter and felt you should be allowed to express yourself (care in the community and all that), now, reading the above that's incorrect and I've been giving labour a bad name because of you... Reality is you're simply a boring Troll. Who you support is anyone's guess.



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Was having 2nd thoughts about my last post then I saw his later ones.. I've been too kind!.... Sigh....

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Thanks for that last post, for a good while I've thought you were a bit of a 'slow' Labour supporter and felt you should be allowed to express yourself (care in the community and all that), now, reading the above that's incorrect and I've been giving labour a bad name because of you... Reality is you're simply a boring Troll. Who you support is anyone's guess.



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Yeah right.

Everyone who attempts to point out the faults with snp nationalism is a 'troll'.

What currency, benefits, welfare, pensions, jobs, careeers etc?

Ought to be ashamed of yourself leading the poor into destitution and the ill of health into probably death.

Mon Labour

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

That doesn’t really answer the point about England having some form of dominance.

England is a split country with steadfast Tory shires, Labour heartlands, and at least for some of the time, Lib Dem strongholds. They do fluctuate occasionally but they are dissonant from one another.

Truro is as likely to vote with North East Fife as Monklands is to vote with Darlington and Eastwood to vote with Beaconsfield.

There is rarely an English majority and the most recent examples have been the Blair administrations, which introduced SureStart, child tax credits, pension credits and the minimum wage. Not exactly flying in the face of Scottish opinion?

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Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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And how would that work out for the EU?

We'd go from second largest within our group of islands to 27th or whatever?

Are you for real?

I actually care about Scotland ya.

Mon Labour!!!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...w-to-open-one/



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Aah, I remember this from last year. It’s interesting but it’s not a nationalist issue - harm reduction in Glasgow doesn’t differ to any great degree from harm reduction in Birmingham or Cardiff. There are active voices in every part of the UK who wish to treat it as a criminal issue, just as much as those who see it as a public health issue, or a broader health and well-being issue.

I am not sure how knowledgeable you are about the work done in Scotland by the various Drug and Alcohol Partnerships I referred to earlier. Most have taken an approach in recent years based on destigmatisation and trying to avoid criminalising people, and that, to some extent has been effective. It’s no different from the rest of the UK. I think when you talk about being denied the right to save the lives of addicts you are being overly emotive and that is irresponsible.

I would recognise that a devolutionary Scotland has been slightly ahead of the game in thinking about how to align government policy closer to a human rights-based approach. There has been a greater focus on treating societal ills in the broadest sense - looking at them not as criminal or spend-to-fix but as public health or social health - or basing our standards and expectations on UN-defined rights and the PANEL principles. That is laudable and it’s no doubt common knowledge that the approaches taken in this country to public sector reform and improvement attract attention from many quarters.

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

Whether they all agree with each other is largely irrelevant. The fact that is if enough of them stick together they can have a decisive say in how all 4 countries in the UK are governed. In Scotland we can’t do that. We are at the mercy of whatever our larger neighbor thinks is best for them.

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“...If enough of them stick together”

”...We are at the mercy”

I’m sorry but how desperate does that sound?

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

Aah, I remember this from last year. It’s interesting but it’s not a nationalist issue - harm reduction in Glasgow doesn’t differ to any great degree from harm reduction in Birmingham or Cardiff. There are active voices in every part of the UK who wish to treat it as a criminal issue, just as much as those who see it as a public health issue, or a broader health and well-being issue.

I am not sure how knowledgeable you are about the work done in Scotland by the various Drug and Alcohol Partnerships I referred to earlier. Most have taken an approach in recent years based on destigmatisation and trying to avoid criminalising people, and that, to some extent has been effective. It’s no different from the rest of the UK. I think when you talk about being denied the right to save the lives of addicts you are being overly emotive and that is irresponsible.

I would recognise that a devolutionary Scotland has been slightly ahead of the game in thinking about how to align government policy closer to a human rights-based approach. There has been a greater focus on treating societal ills in the broadest sense - looking at them not as criminal or spend-to-fix but as public health or social health - or basing our standards and expectations on UN-defined rights and the PANEL principles. That is laudable and it’s no doubt common knowledge that the approaches taken in this country to public sector reform and improvement attract attention from many quarters.

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And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


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You can’t answer in detail about drug policy can you? Despite you bringing it up.

You shouldn’t flag it up if you aren’t confident about your premise. You’ve got a lot of talk but not a lot of proof.

Criminal law in Scotland has changed masssively over recent years, and likewise in the rest of the UK. The recent guidance on the presumption of avoiding short sentences has been trialled in Scotland and looks successful. England and Wales look like adopting it.

It is getting a lengthy list now C but how about acknowledging that Drug and Alcohol Partnerships spread around the country are the critical element in drug treatment services?

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Originally Posted by James310

You are completely missing the point, deliberately or not I am not sure.

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What point is that? That the SNP should have impossible answers?

The SNP could quite easily make some stuff up to give people a false sense of confidence. I respect them for not doing do.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Your constant picking up on people using the term ‘we’ or ‘us’ is the single most boring thing on here. It does not move forward any of the discussions at all. Every time I see you do it I think why? Am I missing something? Is there a higher understanding I’m missing (probably)? Each and every time though, I understand exactly what the person meant whether I agree with them or not.
And I also know that about 20 posts later I’ll be still reading about who has the right to say ‘we’.
Don’t take that personally. [emoji6]

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Disagree. Doesn't do any harm at all to point out that people are often being very lazy with the "we this" "we that" "the people of Scotland want this" "the people of Scotland want that" chat. I don't see it as any different from talking about "the people of Edinburgh believe this" "the people of Glasgow believe that" (which you never hear, perhaps because it's so obviously bollocks). For many people, the border between England and Scotland is an administrative boundary, nothing more, and the idea that the will of the Scottish people, or the will of the British people, is anything more than a lazy linguistic shorthand is pitiable. Ian Blackford is a repeat offender in the House of Commons.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

You can’t answer in detail about drug policy can you? Despite you bringing it up.

You shouldn’t flag it up if you aren’t confident about your premise. You’ve got a lot of talk but not a lot of proof.

Criminal law in Scotland has changed masssively over recent years, and likewise in the rest of the UK. The recent guidance on the presumption of avoiding short sentences has been trialled in Scotland and looks successful. England and Wales look like adopting it.

It is getting a lengthy list now C but how about acknowledging that Drug and Alcohol Partnerships spread around the country are the critical element in drug treatment services?

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Is this an area where Scotland has chosen a different solution but can not put the chosen policy in place due to lack of the power to do so or not?

I can acknowledge that I’m no expert in most things. It often results in pretentious educated snobs looking down their nose at me but I plough on regardless. Sometimes I learn something but it’s rare.



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voted Conservative purely because I oppose referendums on indy and the EU.

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Originally Posted by Stranraer

voted Conservative purely because I oppose referendums on indy and the EU.

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Nothing wrong with that. And in a clear and to the point post. A rarity on this board.


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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

What point is that? That the SNP should have impossible answers?

The SNP could quite easily make some stuff up to give people a false sense of confidence. I respect them for not doing do.

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We have gone over the currency questions many times. They are valid questions, if not why was it such an important issue at the SNP conference and was for many a major stumbling block at the last referendum. Nobody is asking what the £ will be worth against the € in 5 years because unless you are regularly exchanging money between the two or run an import and export busines it's not a significant concern. In an Independent Scotland you will be required to exchange money all the time to pay for lots of things. So valid questions will be asked about the things that matter to people.

Maybe also because the SNP have flip flopped so many times on this issue some people have little confidence in them having the ability to deliver this. This is their 3rd attempt in the last 10 years so again perfectly valid to challenge and ask questions to the people proposing to make significant change.

Or if you like yes the SNP should come out and say actually we have no idea if the £500 you pay each month for your mortgage will increase or not.

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Originally Posted by James310

We have gone over the currency questions many times. They are valid questions, if not why was it such an important issue at the SNP conference and was for many a major stumbling block at the last referendum. Nobody is asking what the £ will be worth against the € in 5 years because unless you are regularly exchanging money between the two or run an import and export busines it's not a significant concern. In an Independent Scotland you will be required to exchange money all the time to pay for lots of things. So valid questions will be asked about the things that matter to people.

Maybe also because the SNP have flip flopped so many times on this issue some people have little confidence in them having the ability to deliver this. This is their 3rd attempt in the last 10 years so again perfectly valid to challenge and ask questions as the people proposing to make significant change.

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It is definitely fair and healthy to ask questions around currency post independence. However why don’t you seem as concerned about the pound and what will happen to it post Brexit? That is something happening here and now.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

It is definitely fair and healthy to ask questions around currency post independence. However why don’t you seem as concerned about the pound and what will happen to it post Brexit? That is something happening here and now.

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Because I am not regularly exchanging the £ every month to pay for things like my mortgage. Post Brexit I will still be paid in £ and pay my mortgage in £.

Do you regularly look at the exchange rates as you do your family budgeting?

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Originally Posted by James310

Because I am not regularly exchanging the £ every month to pay for things like my mortgage. Post Brexit I will still be paid in £ and pay my mortgage in £.

Do you regularly look at the exchange rates as you do your family budgeting?

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Is that your only concern over currency, be it Independence or the here and now of Brexit, what currency’s you have to exchange in your day to day life? Are you not concerned about the strength of the pound post Brexit and what impact that will have on pensions, mortgages etc in 5 years, 10 years etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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This rabid nonsense is precisely why Labour are, and will continue to be, nowhere near power in Scotland.

You're banging on about tackling poverty and deprivation, yet it was a Scottish Labour leader that helped deliver a Tory government in 2017 and the continuation of horrific policies that impact the most vulnerable in our society. The fact that you see the SNP as more of an enemy than the tories says it all about Labour.

You're precious about the union, but Richard Leonard could do with learning about Holyroods spending power. He has spent plenty time calling for more money to be spent in certain areas, without once identifying what he would cut to pay for it.

Thankfully most voters can see through this nonsense, reflected in Labour continuing to languish in the polls.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

Is that your only concern over currency, be it Independence or the here and now of Brexit, what currency’s you have to exchange in your day to day life? Are you not concerned about the strength of the pound post Brexit and what impact that will have on pensions, mortgages etc in 5 years, 10 years etc etc.

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It's not something that keeps me awake at night no. The £ has depreciated against the € significantly since 2016 but it's had very little impact on my day to day life as I am not needing lots of € to run my household. My mortgage payments have remained the same the whole time.

If however every month I am wondering how much money I need to exchange to pay my mortgage and will it be 30% of my income or maybe 40% this month, then yes that's a worry for me, and it should be for most people as well.

We have always had the issue of the £ going up and down against other currencies but unless you run an import and export business or are required to regularly exchange money then it's probably of little interest to you. It will become of interest to a lot more people if we move to a separate currency, hence why people will ask questions that they don't ask today.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I can acknowledge that I’m no expert in most things. It often results in pretentious educated snobs looking down their nose at me but I plough on regardless. Sometimes I learn something but it’s rare.

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Absolutely no need for that comment.

Insulting someone for being educated demeans you, Ozy.

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Originally Posted by James310

It's not something that keeps me awake at night no. The £ has depreciated against the € significantly since 2016 but it's had very little impact on my day to day life as I am not needing lots of € to run my household. My mortgage payments have remained the same.

If however every month I am wondering how much money I need to exchange to pay my mortgage and will it be 30% of my income or maybe 40% this month, then yes that's a worry for me, and it should be for most people as well.

We have always had the issue of the £ going up and down against other currencies but unless you run an import and export business or are required to regularly exchange money then it's probably of little interest to you. It will become of interest to a lot more people if we move to a separate currency, hence why people will ask questions that they don't ask today.

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I’m with you on asking questions around currency, and I’ve still to be fully convinced on the currency debate. However I can’t help but feel it’s hypocritical of you to constantly talk about how much money you will need to convert (which is an assumption as to not using the £ or pegging to it) yet dismiss the economic impact of Brexit and the decline of the £ as “we have always had the issue of the pound going up and down” as if we’re not in uncharted territory and it’s just another normal year.

If you were equally as concerned about the economy and the strength of the pound as you are a Scottish currency I’d be there with you and want to know the answers. However you seem very laissez faire to the current economic climate and the effect of Brexit on the £, but have your forensic magnifying glass on independence.

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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

“...If enough of them stick together”

”...We are at the mercy”

I’m sorry but how desperate does that sound?

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Put it another way. If the electorate in England feel strongly enough about something they can effect change in a general election and the rest of the UK simply has to go along with it whether we agree or not.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

I’m with you on asking questions around currency, and I’ve still to be fully convinced on the currency debate. However I can’t help but feel it’s hypocritical of you to constantly talk about how much money you will need to convert (which is an assumption as to not using the £ or pegging to it) yet dismiss the economic impact of Brexit and the decline of the £ as “we have always had the issue of the pound going up and down” as if we’re not in uncharted territory and it’s just another normal year.

If you were equally as concerned about the economy and the strength of the pound as you are a Scottish currency I’d be there with you and want to know the answers. However you seem very laissez faire to the current economic climate and the effect of Brexit on the £, but have your forensic magnifying glass on independence.

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But as I say my mortgage payments will still be paid in £ post Brexit, I will still be paid in £ post Brexit. Nothing changes. By far my biggest monthly outgoing is my mortgage so it's my biggest concern. Today I have certainty what I am paying each month and what % of my income that is. That certainty I have dissappears post Indy with a new currency so its a bigger issue than say the oranges I buy at Morrisons have gone up 30p since last year as they are imported from Spain. I might choose to not buy organges this time, but I don't have a choice to not pay my mortgage.

Has your life changed significantly since 2016 and when the £ started to depreciate against the €? Is it something you need to think about each month?

Of course I am going to question this minute detail, it is something I have an influence on by the way I vote if there ever is another referendum.

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Originally Posted by Tornadoes70

Its actually getting to the bit where I realise none of the snp separatists actually care a tuppeny bit about Scotland and its folk. None of them argue the currencey or what impact depreciation of currency would have upon it whatever it was called.

If you want to remain poor vote tory, if you want to destitute yourself vote snp/greens. If you want to avoid any of the first two vote Labour.

The Snp bots do not care about you or how your life unfolds. All they care about is breaking up the UK. if that's you're lifelong goal also by all means side with them but you were warned.

Mon Labour!!!

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Have you any idea of the value of the pound since 2010?

I'll give you a clue, it's only gone one way. 👇

Strong and stable, wibble wobble.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Have you any idea of the value of the pound since 2010?

I'll give you a clue, it's only gone one way. 👇

Strong and stable, wibble wobble.

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Is this the same pound that the SNP want to use for an undetermined number of years? If its such a wibble wobble why is that their policy? Why not go straight to a brand new currency on day 1?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

And if the decision was to be taken in Edinburgh rather than London it would be a different one. Doesn’t matter if it’s the right or wrong decision. The Scottish Parliament would go in a different direction on this issue.
But instead we are tied to the ‘just say no’ brigade in the Tory party. We have them in Scotland but they are a minority. Unfortunately the numbers in England mean they are in power in the UK and the Scottish Parliament is powerless on this issue.


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Some folk are more interested in the English shires, it makes them feel big.

The points lost on them, that young Scots have died due to the current UK set up of governance, and the inability to see a way out. Power is everything to them.

They don't really care, as long as they can redesign their vocabulary, and throw the R away.

Michael Gove, anyone.