Real-life football or Walt Disney? Which is Hibs.net?

In the middle of a press conference, Botafogo manager Renato Paiva delivered a Harvard-level masterclass on the two types of football: real-life football and WALT DISNEY football, as he called it:


🗣️ "Nowadays, with the media and especially the Internet, there are TWO TYPES OF FOOTBALL: real-life football and Walt Disney football.


In real-life football, you have to understand who you are, who you're playing against, and you can’t always play the same way because sometimes you’re not allowed to either because of the opponent’s quality or their tactical setup.


In Walt Disney football, everyone has to go all-out attacking and it’s like we’re playing alone. After beating PSG, in people’s minds we had to DESTROY Atlético Madrid.


Let me tell you a story: I ran into a fan, it’s good to interact with fans, and he told me we should’ve played differently, that if we had approached the Atlético Madrid game another way, we would’ve won for sure.


That we were too defensive. So I asked him, because it’s his opinion and I respect it, ‘Tell me something, how many times have you watched Atlético Madrid play this year?’ And he said: ‘I haven’t seen them at all.’ There you go, explained.


That’s a WALT DISNEY FOOTBALL comment. ‘I believe it should be like this, I think it should be like that, and so everything must be done that way.’
We were ‘happy’ and deserving against Atlético Madrid, but then five minutes before the end, we conceded a goal and NOW EVERYTHING IS WRONG.


What worked against PSG? Gone. This is one of the issues we have to address: the final result tells you if it worked or didn’t, whether you’re great or not.
People like that don’t care who’s on the other side.”


🧠

I think perhaps Yogi summed it up - “Fitbaw folks Ken whits goin oan”

was it ET that said (I paraphrase “supporters know nothing”?)

Fitbaw folk Ken whats gaun oan.... and Walt Disnae?

I don't know if it's a modern social media thing or whether it's always been the case, but generally I think huge swathes of football fans don't understand the game. Look at the screaming, wailing and over the top reactions to a bad result or two.

I'm certainly no expert. I'm not a "football person", have never played it to any serious level, never coached it, and never earned a living from it. I know what I like - attractive attacking football and winning games, but then so does everybody. I tend to think the older generations are a bit more understanding of the nuances of the game but the only real proof i have for that is that there seemed to be a lot more patience a few decades ago. If there had been social media back then would Alex Miller have been given 10 years in the job? I don't know.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Fitbaw folk Ken whats gaun oan.... and Walt Disnae?

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This.

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

I don't know if it's a modern social media thing or whether it's always been the case, but generally I think huge swathes of football fans don't understand the game. Look at the screaming, wailing and over the top reactions to a bad result or two.

I'm certainly no expert. I'm not a "football person", have never played it to any serious level, never coached it, and never earned a living from it. I know what I like - attractive attacking football and winning games, but then so does everybody. I tend to think the older generations are a bit more understanding of the nuances of the game but the only real proof i have for that is that there seemed to be a lot more patience a few decades ago. If there had been social media back then would Alex Miller have been given 10 years in the job? I don't know.

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Hit the nail on the head there I think, he would have been hounded out of the job by the press and supporters calling for his head. Social media has opened up a floodgate for any Tom Dick or Harry to spill their seethe and, more often than not, their total ignorance, about football in general, players, teams, tactics or results into the ether.

I don't think fans are any more or less patient or knowledgeable now. There is just more opportunity for us to make our ignorance and impatience heard now. In the early 90s 'Miller must go' is about the most vivid chant I can remember from ER and plenty players have spoken about the abuse they heard and how it impacted them. It was just easier to confine to the terraces on a Saturday and an angry letter or 3 to the EEN.

It must be really frustrating being a footballer or a manager. A bunch of people with nowhere near your talent or qualifications telling you they could do your job better than you could. That's part of the fun of being a fan of course, impart your wisdom without ever having to back it up.

It goes further than Football, its a societal issue. Knash your gums, without any basis in fact or understanding of the topic and if you shout loud enough the cult will follow or at least believe you.

The president of the United States for example.

Sent from my SM-S931B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

I don't know if it's a modern social media thing or whether it's always been the case, but generally I think huge swathes of football fans don't understand the game. Look at the screaming, wailing and over the top reactions to a bad result or two.

I'm certainly no expert. I'm not a "football person", have never played it to any serious level, never coached it, and never earned a living from it. I know what I like - attractive attacking football and winning games, but then so does everybody. I tend to think the older generations are a bit more understanding of the nuances of the game but the only real proof i have for that is that there seemed to be a lot more patience a few decades ago. If there had been social media back then would Alex Miller have been given 10 years in the job? I don't know.

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Some of the angriest, most irrational fans I’ve seen at ER have been older folk who really should know better.

Some of the biggest bed wetters on here have been around the block more than a few times too.

Football is emotive, and for some a release and a chance to express themselves in a way that they can’t elsewhere, so I’m not here to criticise, but this has not been created by social media.

However, social media definitely doesn’t help. The game’s become increasingly obsessed with fame and wealth, and I’m sick of it.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I don't think fans are any more or less patient or knowledgeable now. There is just more opportunity for us to make our ignorance and impatience heard now. In the early 90s 'Miller must go' is about the most vivid chant I can remember from ER and plenty players have spoken about the abuse they heard and how it impacted them. It was just easier to confine to the terraces on a Saturday and an angry letter or 3 to the EEN.

It must be really frustrating being a footballer or a manager. A bunch of people with nowhere near your talent or qualifications telling you they could do your job better than you could. That's part of the fun of being a fan of course, impart your wisdom without ever having to back it up.

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That's probably true. The level of scrutiny and analysis of everything and every player or manager is incredible now. There's really no hiding place.

Back in the day you went to the game and did that. Outside of that it was just a few match reports, a couple of articles per day in the Evening News and, if you were lucky, highlights on Sportscene or Scotsport.

Renato Paiva is correct. How many games to Hibs win or lose by one goal, and it's either a dominant victory or a dreadful defeat. We play a lot of teams just below and just above our 'standard' and we are going to win some and lose some - the manager sets out a team and individual players make plays that change the course of the game. I've seen us play well against Hearts and then lose a silly goal, and this place goes bananas about how crap we are. I appreciate good defending and good attacking when I watch games with other teams, but seems its win or nothing for your own team

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Some of the angriest, most irrational fans I’ve seen at ER have been older folk who really should know better.

Some of the biggest bed wetters on here have been around the block more than a few times too.

Football is emotive, and for some a release and a chance to express themselves in a way that they can’t elsewhere, so I’m not here to criticise, but this has not been created by social media.

However, social media definitely doesn’t help. The game’s become increasingly obsessed with fame and wealth, and I’m sick of it.

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Bedwetters you say?? Whilst also saying you’re not criticising anyone!

They are Hibs fans that pay their way. If they have the odd moan on here, so what?

I’ve always thought that football is so popular with the masses because you don’t need to have a deep understanding of the game.

It’s about the passion, the tribalism, feeling of belonging etc.

You can be a dyed in the wool fan, having never kicked a ball in your life. Thats the beauty of it.

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Originally Posted by Numptie

Renato Paiva is correct. How many games to Hibs win or lose by one goal, and it's either a dominant victory or a dreadful defeat. We play a lot of teams just below and just above our 'standard' and we are going to win some and lose some - the manager sets out a team and individual players make plays that change the course of the game. I've seen us play well against Hearts and then lose a silly goal, and this place goes bananas about how crap we are. I appreciate good defending and good attacking when I watch games with other teams, but seems its win or nothing for your own team

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Indeed. Pat Fenlon got sacked / quit a couple of weeks after a game where we ran Hearts ragged and got beaten 0 - 1 in a game we should have won about 4 - 0 if things like possession and shots on goal meant anything..... that was the truth of it, but nobody cared.

Paiva was bang on. The underlying message isn't just about adjusting to what's before you though. In an era where clubs aren't just owned by billionaires but by countries these Disney clubs are destroying any meaningful competition. The French league is already heading towards a carbon copy of Scotland where PSG are practically untouchable .... it's even the same in England to a degree .... Spurs, one of the biggest clubs in the world are 66/1 with William Hill ...... 15 EPL clubs are 70/1 or worse with some bookies.

That's right, according to the bookies, who are rarely wrong, 3/4 of the clubs in 'the most competitive league in the world' have next to no chance of winning it.

​Dumbo is one of my favourite Disney characters.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I don't think fans are any more or less patient or knowledgeable now. There is just more opportunity for us to make our ignorance and impatience heard now. In the early 90s 'Miller must go' is about the most vivid chant I can remember from ER and plenty players have spoken about the abuse they heard and how it impacted them. It was just easier to confine to the terraces on a Saturday and an angry letter or 3 to the EEN.

It must be really frustrating being a footballer or a manager. A bunch of people with nowhere near your talent or qualifications telling you they could do your job better than you could. That's part of the fun of being a fan of course, impart your wisdom without ever having to back it up.

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I'm pretty sure the magnificent Hibs Monthly started out during the late 80's -early 90's. Fanzines gave a voice to fans that was lacking before that era. Oh how I laughed at Grumpy Gibby, Spambo the Jambo, etc.

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Originally Posted by jacomo

Some of the angriest, most irrational fans I’ve seen at ER have been older folk who really should know better.

Some of the biggest bed wetters on here have been around the block more than a few times too.

Football is emotive, and for some a release and a chance to express themselves in a way that they can’t elsewhere, so I’m not here to criticise, but this has not been created by social media.

However, social media definitely doesn’t help. The game’s become increasingly obsessed with fame and wealth, and I’m sick of it.

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There is definitely a bit of misty eyed romance for the 'guid auld days' among football fans of a certain vintage. I'm no exception, I long for 90s football as if it was some golden era; it was the age of Paul Tosh, Oli Gottskalkson, Lee Power and relegation🤣

Try telling Joe Harper, Ally Brazil, Joe Tortolano, Brian Hamilton or Stuart Lovell that fans giving players and managers unwarranted grief is a new thing. It's the same with the stuff about 'there was nae bother in the days before segregation, a firm handshake, wish your Hearts mates all the best then give them a nip out your bottle'. Aye? Funny they decided to introduce segregation when it was all so harmonious and full of peaceful bonhomie.

As you say football is emotive. It provokes reactions that are totally irrational but if it was in any way rational none of us would do it. Managers know the score as well. The boy in the OP is right of course and he's clearly irked and letting off a bit steam but they get it; if they don't and fail to humour their fanbase then they won't last long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

I don't know if it's a modern social media thing or whether it's always been the case, but generally I think huge swathes of football fans don't understand the game. Look at the screaming, wailing and over the top reactions to a bad result or two.

I'm certainly no expert. I'm not a "football person", have never played it to any serious level, never coached it, and never earned a living from it. I know what I like - attractive attacking football and winning games, but then so does everybody. I tend to think the older generations are a bit more understanding of the nuances of the game but the only real proof i have for that is that there seemed to be a lot more patience a few decades ago. If there had been social media back then would Alex Miller have been given 10 years in the job? I don't know.

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Eddie Turnbull wouldn't have lasted till the end of the decade either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia

I don't know if it's a modern social media thing or whether it's always been the case, but generally I think huge swathes of football fans don't understand the game. Look at the screaming, wailing and over the top reactions to a bad result or two.

I'm certainly no expert. I'm not a "football person", have never played it to any serious level, never coached it, and never earned a living from it. I know what I like - attractive attacking football and winning games, but then so does everybody. I tend to think the older generations are a bit more understanding of the nuances of the game but the only real proof i have for that is that there seemed to be a lot more patience a few decades ago. If there had been social media back then would Alex Miller have been given 10 years in the job? I don't know.

---

Great post, from one of the older, more patience generation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Viva_Palmeiras

In the middle of a press conference, Botafogo manager Renato Paiva delivered a Harvard-level masterclass on the two types of football: real-life football and WALT DISNEY football, as he called it:


🗣️ "Nowadays, with the media and especially the Internet, there are TWO TYPES OF FOOTBALL: real-life football and Walt Disney football.


In real-life football, you have to understand who you are, who you're playing against, and you can’t always play the same way because sometimes you’re not allowed to either because of the opponent’s quality or their tactical setup.


In Walt Disney football, everyone has to go all-out attacking and it’s like we’re playing alone. After beating PSG, in people’s minds we had to DESTROY Atlético Madrid.


Let me tell you a story: I ran into a fan, it’s good to interact with fans, and he told me we should’ve played differently, that if we had approached the Atlético Madrid game another way, we would’ve won for sure.


That we were too defensive. So I asked him, because it’s his opinion and I respect it, ‘Tell me something, how many times have you watched Atlético Madrid play this year?’ And he said: ‘I haven’t seen them at all.’ There you go, explained.


That’s a WALT DISNEY FOOTBALL comment. ‘I believe it should be like this, I think it should be like that, and so everything must be done that way.’
We were ‘happy’ and deserving against Atlético Madrid, but then five minutes before the end, we conceded a goal and NOW EVERYTHING IS WRONG.


What worked against PSG? Gone. This is one of the issues we have to address: the final result tells you if it worked or didn’t, whether you’re great or not.
People like that don’t care who’s on the other side.”


🧠

I think perhaps Yogi summed it up - “Fitbaw folks Ken whits goin oan”

was it ET that said (I paraphrase “supporters know nothing”?)

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I think ET said "phone home".

Social media has helped football grow. EPL players are modern-day movie stars. Football is going through a golden era, stadiums are better than ever and more fans are attending games than in a long time. But the reality is the product on the park in Scotland is a different sport (not quite) to the EPL and CL. So most supporters are Walt Disney and lots think they are Klopp or Pep when in fact we aren't even close to having the game knowledge of Cathro

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Originally Posted by lucky

So most supporters are Walt Disney and lots think they are Klopp or Pep when in fact we aren't even close to having the game knowledge of Cathro

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Speak for yersel, I took Arbroath from League 1 to Champions League finalists in 13 seasons on Football Manager. I know what I'm talking about.........

Society now expects instant gratification.