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Horrific and shocking news today with the Hamas attack on cities around Gaza.
I can't quite believe that they have been able to do this so easily. This must surely be one of the most heavily guarded borders in the world.
The Israel response is going to be massive. And as always, it will be civilians on both sides that suffer. There appears to be no end in sight to the bloodshed.
Crazy crazy stuff. Reports of civilians being shot in the street and pulled from cars and executed.
over 150 killed in Israel
Israel has retaliated killing 198
Huge embarrassment for the Israeli security services.Quote:
Originally Posted by neil7908
It is, but the wrath of the Israelis, as always, will primarily be borne by those Palestinians who are most vulnerable, especially children. Internal politics is at play here, as Hamas wants to demonstrate it isn’t lying down to Israel, but, at the same time they know that Israeli reprisals will be enormous and thousands of innocent people will die.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamig
I have great sympathy for Palestinian independence, and it isn’t for me to take the moral high ground in relation to an illegally occupied and besieged people, but this will end badly for all, particularly innocent Palestinians. Will any perceived gains be worth the cost of so many lives, both Palestinian and Israeli? What a terrible scenario once again. It all seems so futile.
I’m with you bud. I am no Israeli sympathiser. I’m fully aware as to what lies ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Viewing the many horrendous videos circulating widely on X of of dead pensioners at bus stops, terrified kidnapped Israeli woman, the dead German woman being paraded throughout the streets ect, it’s hard to find a great deal of sympathy for what comes Hamas’ way now. Disgusting behaviour from human beings.
I'm in a similar place. I have sympathy for the suffering of the Palestinian people but atrocities like we are seeing will only alienate public opinion, bring down more misery on their people and continue the never ending cycle of hate and violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
It's unfathomably tragic that 30 years after the Oslo accords, 30+ years on from the agreements and negotiations between Yasser Arafat, Yitzkah Rabin and Shimone Peres, 30 years on from the change in stance from both Fatah and the then Israeli government and their mutual recognition of the need for a two state solution and 23 years on from the Camp David Summit that started to put a framework in place for such that we seem further away from a resolution than ever.
Hard liners are running the show on both sides and this kind of escalation is an inevitability. I have been a vocal critic of the Israeli government and the IDF but in this instance they have really been left with little option but retaliation. The actions of Hamas are indefensible and the Israeli response will be brutal and bloody.
I really have no idea of the history of the whole thing but I’ve never bought into the Palestine rallies etc. I don’t have a strong personal opinion as as I don’t know the subject well enough but whilst it’s a tragedy what has happened, what good does killing and harming thousands of civilians do? It just creates the next wave of terrorists and extremists after seeing their family and friends killed.
It’s just an endless cycle. It’s easy to say because I’m not personally affected by it, but imagine Israel showed restraint and didnt retaliate. It may show some on the Palestinian side that their actions are abhorrent and may win some public opinion.
If it happened again or more rockets etc then Israel would be fully justified retaliating in full.
It won’t happen and if/when Isreal retaliate I don’t blame them but it will be never ending
Just to add, there is an amazing box set called Fauda on Netflix which is about Israel/palestine and it follows special agents with the IDF.
Agree. Excellent show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
Agree with both of these comments.
For Hamas to do this reinforces my view that they do not care whatsoever about the hundreds (possibly thousands) of innocent people that will suffer on both sides.
I think that applies to both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1642
Yes it is. And similar atrocities have been carried out by Israelis against Palestinians - in fact, the usual pattern is that more Palestinians die every year.
This will continue so long as folk like Hamas and Netanyahu pull the strings.
Both Hamas and Netanyahu want this war. There is no way Isreal was caught by surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
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I support Palestines right to fight for freedom, they have been brutalised constantly and treated like animals. All the military targets were fair game
But.. you have no humanity if you think most of the acts yesterday were in anyway justified. 250 kids just going to a concert, old people waiting for a bus, a woman dead half naked paraded round the back of a truck, little kids without their parents abducted, this is vile terrorism.
Notice Maggie Chapman retweeted a post saying the acts weren't terrorism they are decolonisation. She then says all the acts are due to Isreals apartheid. I don't care if your oppressed raping women and murdering kids can never be justified
https://twitter.com/MaggieChapman/st...61209737265260
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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Minded to agree with you.
It always fascinates me that people vote right wing politicians to "keep them safe", only to see them fail spectacularly to do this, and then still vote them in again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
In the US 9/11 happened under a Republican President and Bin Laden was killed under Obama's watch. And yet its the right that will protect us from the bad guys 🤔
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Originally Posted by neil7908
Such politicians appeal to base instincts, and only care about their narrow self-interest. See Trump as an exemplar of this.
Fortunately, Northern Ireland found politicians on both sides willing to rise above such behaviour, show some actual leadership, and end the troubles.
The situation in Israel / Palestine is a lot more complicated, but there are parallels.
WSJ with the most obvious of exclusives. Hamas say Iran helped plan and fund the attack
https://archive.ph/XcaAJ
Democracy was available in NI. They can’t have that in Isreal.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacomo
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https://x.com/manniefabian/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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FFS Treat them like the Nazis treated Jews in the ghetto's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
What a mess.
Brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I don't understand Hamas's actions. They were never going to work militarily. They were always going to give Isreal free rein to ramp up the brutalty and squash hamas without fear of condemnation.
That goes against absolutely everything being reported.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Not since the Holocaust have that number of Israelis been killed in a single day. To suggest that Isreal saw it coming is ridiculous in the extreme.
...which begs the question.... "how did one of the most militarised countries on the planet, with one of the most highly-evolved intelligence networks, not see it coming?".Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
https://x.com/ginadavidsonlbc/status...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
FM’s family stuck in Gaza.
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Putin via his UN Ambassador Lavrov has asked for ceasefire and condemns the killing /attacks on women and children.
Read lots of speculation. Some say Netanyahu was to focused on internal battles and culture wars. Many of the security services were moved from borders to help calm protesters. He also had lots of bad blood with his army recently saying they were in bed with the left.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Also it's looking like a lot of the planning was done Iran away from eyes
Mostly though I think terrorism is hard to stop, see 9/11 or 7/7. It's pretty easy to gun down civilians and run. It's definitely a huge red face. Sadly the ones who pay will be the innocent in the Gaza strip