Nick Montgomery

[flash]

Wee link to an interview about his time at Hibs in which he comes across really well.

Hard to argue with anything he says regardless of how things turned out.

https://x.com/Record_Sport/status/1929770017635115363?t=fCAh6DLKYICrioJH5Z7-NQ&s=19

[matty_f]

Wee link to an interview about his time at Hibs in which he comes across really well.

Hard to argue with anything he says regardless of how things turned out.

https://x.com/Record_Sport/status/1929770017635115363?t=fCAh6DLKYICrioJH5Z7-NQ&s=19

I think most managers that come to Hibs have had to contend with similar issues - cutting the squad or the wage bill, development signings, injuries or suspensions or international duties taking players out the equation etc.

SDG had to do it as well.

I think he did his best when he was here, and wish him well for the future.

[Heisenberg]

It’s not Monty but this from Scott Burns is a lot of pish

“He inherited a squad that was bottom of the table, was bloated and a wage budget that had been well blown.

'Monty' had to slash the wage bill…”

Monty got Marcondes and Maolida in the January and lost no one of note

[18Craig75]

We were so good that night at Tynecastle, most dominant display there in years. We saw the Emiliano that we all thought we were getting, unplayable.

Bizarre decision by the referee and VAR team.

[JasonC1875]

We were so good that night at Tynecastle, most dominant display there in years. We saw the Emiliano that we all thought we were getting, unplayable.

Bizarre decision by the referee and VAR team.

VAR done its job that night, Clancy decided to double down on his wrong decision

[bingo70]

It’s not Monty but this from Scott Burns is a lot of pish

“He inherited a squad that was bottom of the table, was bloated and a wage budget that had been well blown.

'Monty' had to slash the wage bill…”

Monty got Marcondes and Maolida in the January and lost no one of note

Yeah, nothing against Monty as I think he’s probably a really decent guy but I’m not sure that article is really reflective of his time here.

I may be wrong and the article could be right but I don’t think we were bottom of the league when he joined? I thought we were about 8th or 9th and we finished 8th?

You also can’t on one hand talk about the club being skint and having no money and then in the same breath talk about the signings of Marcondes and Maolida.

The final thing that got me was saying not making the top 6 was the final straw, it wasn’t, he got a vote of confidence from the board after that. The final straw was the team totally downing tools after that, compare to the team if this season who fought and scrapped to ensure the manager kept his job.

Good luck to Monty, I hope he gets another job soon and does well, he wasn’t a good fit for us or Scottish football though. I suspect the fact he’s doing this interview and the other Spurs coach leaving to join West Brom means Postecoglu will be on his way soon.

[Stevie Reid]

I’ve nothing against him, but don’t feel any warmth towards Montgomery either. The job was just too big for him and he always looked a bit lost in the media glare.

Not read the article but if the spin is that he was up against it financially, that’s utter nonsense. Ultimately he was an uninspiring figure, and he led an uninspiring team.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Terrible manager and there’s a lot of stuff in that article that’s really stretching things and doing him some enormous favours.

There simply wasn’t any mitigating circumstances that justified how abysmal a side he put out over his time here. Dreadful manager who made watching Hibs a chore and managed to make most players worse.

Don’t wish him any ill but I’m certainly not going to sit here and pretend I’m desperate for him to do well elsewhere either.

[Hibiza]

I’ve nothing against him, but don’t feel any warmth towards Montgomery either. The job was just too big for him and he always looked a bit lost in the media glare.

Not read the article but if the spin is that he was up against it financially, that’s utter nonsense. Ultimately he was an uninspiring figure, and he led an uninspiring team.

Spot on Stevie .

[blackpoolhibs]

A stubborn manager who continued to play a way that bored people rigid, didnt work, and given 2 players who were way out of our price range, still couldnt get us top 6.

All the best for the future Nick, but i'm glad you are nowhere near our club anymore.

[Centre Hawf]

There's a part in the interview where Scott Burns asks him "You didn't have a lot to work with in transfer did you?" then lists off Triantis, Marcondes and Maolida. Leaving out NMW who we signed permanently, and Mayenda who never kicked a ball but is somehow a Championship promotion wonderkid this year. I'd hardly call they 5 names "not a lot to work with" even if Triantis' best period had been under SDG.

As others have said, I don't really care for Montgomery too much in the negative or positive. I think he wasn't a good fit from the start and he was a bit rabbit in the headlights throughout his time here. Good luck to him for the future but ultimately he was sacked because he wasn't good enough.

[Ribs1875]

Monty has my respect, it didn't work out. Perhaps the club were to quick to pull the trigger, and equally perhaps the club were right to do so. In the article he mentions under LJ we signed a lot of development players who might come good. I agree now looking back that was a shambolic recruitment from the club, which regressed us. That said, he signed players like Triantis, Marcondes and Maolida who all left a lasting impact.

It was the same when Heckinbottom was manager, never worked out signed some good players for us. Still went out to do well after us.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Monty has my respect, it didn't work out. Perhaps the club were to quick to pull the trigger, and equally perhaps the club were right to do so. In the article he mentions under LJ we signed a lot of development players who might come good. I agree now looking back that was a shambolic recruitment from the club, which regressed us. That said, he signed players like Triantis, Marcondes and Maolida who all left a lasting impact.

It was the same when Heckinbottom was manager, never worked out signed some good players for us. Still went out to do well after us.

We just finished third. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it was equally possible that we were too quick to pull the trigger. By every possible measure it was the correct decision.

We’d have been bottom 6 again this season under him watching his completely mind numbing ‘style’ of play.

[He's here!]

Yeah, nothing against Monty as I think he’s probably a really decent guy but I’m not sure that article is really reflective of his time here.

I may be wrong and the article could be right but I don’t think we were bottom of the league when he joined? I thought we were about 8th or 9th and we finished 8th?

You also can’t on one hand talk about the club being skint and having no money and then in the same breath talk about the signings of Marcondes and Maolida.

The final thing that got me was saying not making the top 6 was the final straw, it wasn’t, he got a vote of confidence from the board after that. The final straw was the team totally downing tools after that, compare to the team if this season who fought and scrapped to ensure the manager kept his job.

Good luck to Monty, I hope he gets another job soon and does well, he wasn’t a good fit for us or Scottish football though. I suspect the fact he’s doing this interview and the other Spurs coach leaving to join West Brom means Postecoglu will be on his way soon.

Be surprised if Spurs sack their manager now. Monty should stick in with the assistant role as long as possible. Last couple of years must have been disruptive enough for his family. He could re-emerge Cathro-like a few years down the line with his CV looking more respectable again.

[Jones28]

Didn't see a single thing from NM's Hibs that made me think there was something there to build on.

Boring, stubborn, in-effective manager who was only saved by Maolidas goals.

"Didn't have much to work with" until the board saved his skin by pushing the boat out for Marcondes and Maolida.

Like much of the squad he had at the time he was a failed experiment.

Wish him no ill but couldnt give a flying **** about him or his experiences at Hibs.

[Springbank]

You look back over the comments on here at the time & many bemoaned his rigid devotion to 442 when our squad profile suited 352

SDG got that & reaped rewards

[Jones28]

You look back over the comments on here at the time & many bemoaned his rigid devotion to 442 when our squad profile suited 352

SDG got that & reaped rewards

It wasn't exactly like that, DG had his hand forced.

[TrinityHFC]

The football was slow and boring.

There were a lot of people on this forum telling some of us that this is how football should be played.

He wasted all our forward thinking players.

It was completely necessary to get rid.

[BILLYHIBS]

Dearie me !

As others have said a stubborn Manager who would not change the way we were playing despite it not working throw in bizarre team selections and formations and playing players out of position and nullifying our goalscoring threat ( Vente )

We were 10th when he arrived but only 4 games in

My memory is of dull boring toothless sideways backwards football and a high press that never came

The opposition were happy for us to have the ball in our own half

Some of his substitutions were unnecessary and just for the sake of making one

We lost too many late goals remember Motherwell just seconds from glory or whatever?

8 x 2-2 draws cost us have sympathy with the phantom penalty chat a shocker but throw in St Mirren 0-3 Aberdeen 0-4 got lucky with Maolida saved us from relegation Marcondes was just a show pony wonder if he has ever been fully fit ?

Triantis even now is still young and inconsistent has his good games and bad games but has potential in abundance

Verdict Monty was a nice guy not the brightest but happy for him

[easty]

Not a good football manager. Didn't have anywhere near enough good experience before coming to us, and it showed.

Got nowhere near enough out of the squad he had.

[DH1875]

It wasn't exactly like that, DG had his hand forced.

I see this said a lot but I'm pretty sure we started off in a 3-5-2 formation at the start of the season in the league cup.

[Jones28]

I see this said a lot but I'm pretty sure we started off in a 3-5-2 formation at the start of the season in the league cup.

We did, and in pre-season against PAOK where it looked really good and made sense for the players we had.

Then for some reason we went to a 4-2-3-1 and persisted with it for far too long.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I see this said a lot but I'm pretty sure we started off in a 3-5-2 formation at the start of the season in the league cup.

We did and then also switched to a 352 for Celtic away in the league cup. I think the “hand forced” line is a bit mythical.

[Brightside]

Be surprised if Spurs sack their manager now. Monty should stick in with the assistant role as long as possible. Last couple of years must have been disruptive enough for his family. He could re-emerge Cathro-like a few years down the line with his CV looking more respectable again.

It is highly likely that Spurs will be sacking their manager. I imagine Monty will probably head back to Oz and have a lovely life.

[Jones28]

We did and then also switched to a 352 for Celtic away in the league cup. I think the “hand forced” line is a bit mythical.

And then switched back, used it I think once in the interim - United away for half a game? - and then reverted back to it in the Aberdeen game.

Forced might be stretching it, but it was a formation that better suited the players available at the time.

[The Modfather]

You look back over the comments on here at the time & many bemoaned his rigid devotion to 442 when our squad profile suited 352

SDG got that & reaped rewards

It was 433 that was the answer to any question asked. We then moved to 433 and were just as poor.

It’s difficult to make a case for Montgomery, so I won’t try. However last season was the first summer we looked to have got our act together and looking to build an actual balanced squad with the right characters. Gray has delivered so stands apart, but in a parallel universe you wonder if the likes of Maloney or Monty had a chance of succeeding if they came into Hibs when we had Mackay and the Black Knights steering the ship.

[matty_f]

It wasn't exactly like that, DG had his hand forced.

He didn't really - Obita's red card at Dundee was the only enforced change from that match to the Aberdeen game, and we could easily have kept the formation from that game. We'd gone 352 away to Celtic earlier in the season, as well as in the cup games so it was always an option.

To say it's forced does him a disservice though, there's a whole load of alternative options to a 352 that Gray could have used at that point. He chose 352, and chose to bring in Iredale, Smith and Rocky and kept that system despite not winning against Aberdeen.

[matty_f]

It was 433 that was the answer to any question asked. We then moved to 433 and were just as poor.

It’s difficult to make a case for Montgomery, so I won’t try. However last season was the first summer we looked to have got our act together and looking to build an actual balanced squad with the right characters. Gray has delivered so stands apart, but in a parallel universe you wonder if the likes of Maloney or Monty had a chance of succeeding if they came into Hibs when we had Mackay and the Black Knights steering the ship.
I don't think he would have. Stuff I've heard since - from a player who had the full season under Monty who said they didn't enjoy it because everything they did on the pitch was mandated and robotic, to some of the senior leadership team who were there when Monty was there who cited a toxic and worsening culture at HTC as a key factor in his dismissal, I believe we'd have regressed further the longer he got.

That was the direction of travel after the January window as well, we finished lower in the table that we were going into the window.

[Stevie Reid]

Montgomery also had a fair chunk of the squads that finished 5th and 3rd in the seasons either side of his.

[Centre Hawf]

It was 433 that was the answer to any question asked. We then moved to 433 and were just as poor.

It’s difficult to make a case for Montgomery, so I won’t try. However last season was the first summer we looked to have got our act together and looking to build an actual balanced squad with the right characters. Gray has delivered so stands apart, but in a parallel universe you wonder if the likes of Maloney or Monty had a chance of succeeding if they came into Hibs when we had Mackay and the Black Knights steering the ship.

I personally don't think his methods or style would have worked regardless of the recruitment. We of course don't know who he would have signed so it's hard to point at those we brought in and say "they wouldn't have worked" but I don't really see a world where Ekpiteta and O'Hora would have played it out from the back in the manner Monty wanted for example. Rocky is probably our best at it and he struggled for large parts carrying it out.

It's probably archaic of me but I think there's only so much style you can try and put into a Scottish football team that isn't Celtic or Rangers before it becomes counter productive. I don't want to over simplify Gray's style too much but there was a lot of times we would be happy to hit someone on the break with a ball to the big man in Myko or in behind for Boyle, even if the general consensus would be that we would be the favourite or should dominate possession. Then other times we could play actually put our foot on the ball and play our way through teams when they allowed us the chance to do so. That flexibility has been so important to our upturn in form imo, whereas under Montgomery it felt like for large chunks of his spell we were sticking to this rigid system of building it up from the back and never can we think outside the box within the game we were actually playing.

[Jones28]

He didn't really - Obita's red card at Dundee was the only enforced change from that match to the Aberdeen game, and we could easily have kept the formation from that game. We'd gone 352 away to Celtic earlier in the season, as well as in the cup games so it was always an option.

To say it's forced does him a disservice though, there's a whole load of alternative options to a 352 that Gray could have used at that point. He chose 352, and chose to bring in Iredale, Smith and Rocky and kept that system despite not winning against Aberdeen.

Forced is maybe overplaying it, but there wasn't much to suggest DG was looking to make a change. He was committed to that 4-2-3-1 for the majority of the first round of fixtures and quickly reverted back to it on the couple of times he made the change.

What would have been lunacy is not sticking with it, I think we could all see at that game how much more comfortable we looked, and the difference we had playing 2 strikers was night and day.

[Since452]

Montgomery only has himself to blame. He took over a squad who were bottom of the league after 3 league games but had just pumped Luzern out of Europe and beaten Aberdeen at Pittodrie. They were hardly a poor team. He was a poor manager.

Any manager in the league would have loved that squad. Especially post January.

[Unseen work]

Mayenda has been brilliant for Sunderland this season but somehow barely got a sniff with us despite looking positive.

He signed a player he knew in Triantis to be our starting centre half only to realise he’s not very good there and played him centre mid.

Remember when he put Landers on for Vente against Aberdeen in the semi final? Think we were 1-0 down at the time.

Constant weird subs and a desire to put young boys on at every opportunity - I’ve no issue with young boys getting a chance. But it needs to be at the right time, deserved and with the right players around them.

I’m a fan of Whittaker and thought he done really well, but I’m absolutely convinced Monty played him when he did due to his age as he knew it would break a record.

His style of football was brutal and interviews torture

I had no faith in us ever winning a game with him and thought teams were delighted to play us

[Since452]

Mayenda has been brilliant for Sunderland this season but somehow barely got a sniff with us despite looking positive.

He signed a player he knew in Triantis to be our starting centre half only to realise he’s not very good there and played him centre mid.

Remember when he put Landers on for Vente against Aberdeen in the semi final? Think we were 1-0 down at the time.

Constant weird subs and a desire to put young boys on at every opportunity - I’ve no issue with young boys getting a chance. But it needs to be at the right time, deserved and with the right players around them.

I’m a fan of Whittaker and thought he done really well, but I’m absolutely convinced Monty played him when he did due to his age as he knew it would break a record.

His style of football was brutal and interviews torture

I had no faith in us ever winning a game with him and thought teams were delighted to play us

Totally agree. You knew from his first few interviews he was going to shoehorn youngsters in and I got slaughtered for saying it. He was hopeless.

[Centre Hawf]

Mayenda has been brilliant for Sunderland this season but somehow barely got a sniff with us despite looking positive.

He signed a player he knew in Triantis to be our starting centre half only to realise he’s not very good there and played him centre mid.

Remember when he put Landers on for Vente against Aberdeen in the semi final? Think we were 1-0 down at the time.

Constant weird subs and a desire to put young boys on at every opportunity - I’ve no issue with young boys getting a chance. But it needs to be at the right time, deserved and with the right players around them.

I’m a fan of Whittaker and thought he done really well, but I’m absolutely convinced Monty played him when he did due to his age as he knew it would break a record.

His style of football was brutal and interviews torture

I had no faith in us ever winning a game with him and thought teams were delighted to play us

I honestly felt after the Whittaker stuff that he believed using the young laddies would be a safety blanket for results.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I honestly felt after the Whittaker stuff that he believed using the young laddies would be a safety blanket for results.

There was absolutely no excuse for Rory Whittaker to be playing last season. He had numerous other options but continued to hang him out to dry.

[Jock O]

He didn't really - Obita's red card at Dundee was the only enforced change from that match to the Aberdeen game, and we could easily have kept the formation from that game. We'd gone 352 away to Celtic earlier in the season, as well as in the cup games so it was always an option.

To say it's forced does him a disservice though, there's a whole load of alternative options to a 352 that Gray could have used at that point. He chose 352, and chose to bring in Iredale, Smith and Rocky and kept that system despite not winning against Aberdeen.

I agree with this, it was also interesting to see in one of Mckays recent interviews h implied him and DG had been discussing a change in format for a time before it was implemented. Can't remember which one it was to check to see if I picked that up correctly.

[Centre Hawf]

There was absolutely no excuse for Rory Whittaker to be playing last season. He had numerous other options but continued to hang him out to dry.

The first couple I could understand, I can't remember the injury list at the time but I don't mind a little bit of "next man up" mentality to fill in for a period and give laddies a chance to experience it and see how they cope, and for what it's worth I thought he coped quite well considering early on. But Whittaker's stay in the team stretched itself out into March when it was clear long before that he wasn't quite ready for that level of exposure, total madness that he leaned so heavily on him around winter time in my opinion.

[Smartie]

Montgomery also had a fair chunk of the squads that finished 5th and 3rd in the seasons either side of his.

This is a good point.

I really wanted to think he was hard done by, as the time he was appointed and the time he left really weren’t ideal.

But the squad has gone on to suggest that it really wasn’t all that bad, especially when you consider he had a decent chunk of time with Maolida and Marcondes in addition.

Montgomery, ultimately, didn’t show anything to suggest he deserved more time and I don’t think history will judge his time at Hibs all that well.

This season we’ve had a chance to see a team play in a consistently effective fashion that is the demonstration of what we’re looking for. Gray’s effectiveness has shown up a few previous incumbents for their flaws.

[Winston Ingram]

Wee link to an interview about his time at Hibs in which he comes across really well.

Hard to argue with anything he says regardless of how things turned out.

https://x.com/Record_Sport/status/1929770017635115363?t=fCAh6DLKYICrioJH5Z7-NQ&s=19
Hard to argue?

Moans about having no money. He arrived after the window shut. He was then able to sign Marcondes, Moalida, Triantis and NWH in Jan.

He seems to be blaming everyone bar himself. If he hadn’t stuck with that bat**** rotational 442 for 26 games we’d have made the top 6 no bother. The boy is utterly deluded.

[B.H.F.C]

Hard to argue?

Moans about having no money. He arrived after the window shut. He was then able to sign Marcondes, Moalida, Triantis and NWH in Jan.

He seems to be blaming everyone bar himself. If he hadn’t stuck with that bat**** rotational 442 for 26 games we’d have made the top 6 no bother. The boy is utterly deluded.

He didn’t stick with the formation for the entirety of his time. He changed that aspect of it around January or February and we were still pish.

I always thought the style and the way he wanted to play was a far bigger problem than the formation.

[BILLYHIBS]

Wanted us to play out from the back with guys that couldn’t play just never looked confident or comfortable on the ball

Triantis was hopeless as a Centre Half

Used to ask myself what they did at Training all week ?

As someone else said teams were delighted to play us

The Tornadoes used to drill themselves playing out from the back and work on every possible scenario if it failed it was start again playing keep ball piggy in the middle Brownlie Stanton Edwards- Schaedler Cropley Duncan Defence versus Attack playing against ten men free kicks corner kicks - maybe I am being unfair our lot under Monty were panicking under pressure but he still persisted kept doing the same thing expecting a different outcome Nuts !

[WhileTheChief..]

Guy was a disaster of an appointment and should never have been anywhere near us.

Totally out of his depth and no one to blame but himself for how things ended up.

Couldn’t care less what he thinks of us or what he does next. Will be remembered as a dud, if at all.

[Nicho87]

Moments away from jubilation

Sorry Monty but your football was an absolute borefest to watch

Your inability to change from a 4-4-2 cost you the job

Wish him well but no where near good enough

[Johnny_Leith]

Hard to argue?

Moans about having no money. He arrived after the window shut. He was then able to sign Marcondes, Moalida, Triantis and NWH in Jan.

He seems to be blaming everyone bar himself. If he hadn’t stuck with that bat**** rotational 442 for 26 games we’d have made the top 6 no bother. The boy is utterly deluded.

& Mayenda, who he gave about 30 minutes total to. He’s just played a big part in Sunderland gaining promotion this season.

[HoboHarry]

Apparently just me but he (and others like Maloney, Johnson etc etc) never crosses my mind now that he's gone. He moved on, he's at a good place as indeed we are. Bring on next season with the staff we have and not had...

[Stevie Reid]

I personally don't think his methods or style would have worked regardless of the recruitment. We of course don't know who he would have signed so it's hard to point at those we brought in and say "they wouldn't have worked" but I don't really see a world where Ekpiteta and O'Hora would have played it out from the back in the manner Monty wanted for example. Rocky is probably our best at it and he struggled for large parts carrying it out.

It's probably archaic of me but I think there's only so much style you can try and put into a Scottish football team that isn't Celtic or Rangers before it becomes counter productive. I don't want to over simplify Gray's style too much but there was a lot of times we would be happy to hit someone on the break with a ball to the big man in Myko or in behind for Boyle, even if the general consensus would be that we would be the favourite or should dominate possession. Then other times we could play actually put our foot on the ball and play our way through teams when they allowed us the chance to do so. That flexibility has been so important to our upturn in form imo, whereas under Montgomery it felt like for large chunks of his spell we were sticking to this rigid system of building it up from the back and never can we think outside the box within the game we were actually playing.

100% agree with all of this. St. Johnstone at ER in the last game we played were very Montgomery-like for me. They passed the ball to death, sometimes playing dozens of passes to only advance about 20 yards up the pitch, and still be in their own half - with us in our defensive shape ahead of them. As well as looking like they were exhausting themselves, they coughed up the ball in dangerous areas and we scored twice as a result. It was style for for the sake of it, and it got them absolutely nowhere.

To finish 3rd you simply have to have more than one way to win a game (one of the reasons I was always advocating for McInnes as manager) - and let's face it, Montgomery's only way didn't win us that many anyway. SDG knew this, and this has been shown many times this season.

Since the amazing run started last season, I went into every game thinking, no matter what type of game it turns out to be, we'll do enough to get a result. You knew we would really show up for the big games too. The only other managers who had me feeling like that about their Hibs teams (at their best) were Lennon and McLeish.

SDG inspires huge amounts of confidence. Montgomery, none at all.

[Ribs1875]

We just finished third. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it was equally possible that we were too quick to pull the trigger. By every possible measure it was the correct decision.

We’d have been bottom 6 again this season under him watching his completely mind numbing ‘style’ of play.

Dude, give it a rest!

I am simply saying we would never know how it would have panned out if he had been given time. Your point is valid of us finishing 3rd this season, which is a great achievement. Let's not forget how we got to 3rd from 12th....by giving Gray the time.

We could look a bit further back to when LJ after the derby against Neilsons hearts looked out of a job and a broken man in the interview after the game. We gave him time he turned us around and got us an acceptable enough finish, whilst Neilson got sacked a few months later. Football management can be a toxic relationship with the board and supporters.

[jacomo]

That interview just shows what a poor communicator he is.

First question, Montgomery then drones on for over four minutes, with a litany of excuses and unconvincingly talking himself up.

He was too stubborn and he talked nonsense. I'm not sure what giving him more time would have achieved.

He's now having a successful time coaching at Spurs - I'd imagine Ange will keep him if he stays - so everything worked out ok, for him and us.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Dude, give it a rest!

I am simply saying we would never know how it would have panned out if he had been given time. Your point is valid of us finishing 3rd this season, which is a great achievement. Let's not forget how we got to 3rd from 12th....by giving Gray the time.

We could look a bit further back to when LJ after the derby against Neilsons hearts looked out of a job and a broken man in the interview after the game. We gave him time he turned us around and got us an acceptable enough finish, whilst Neilson got sacked a few months later. Football management can be a toxic relationship with the board and supporters.

We had him for nearly a season. You claimed it was equally possible that we made the wrong decision by sacking him as it is that we made the right decision by sacking him. That is absolute nonsense based on the evidence we have, rather than an imaginary situation where he improved us so much that we got 3rd place under him.

The guy was an absolute disaster.

[Winston Ingram]

He didn’t stick with the formation for the entirety of his time. He changed that aspect of it around January or February and we were still pish.

I always thought the style and the way he wanted to play was a far bigger problem than the formation.

Tbf we picked up after the Celtic game. We were undefeated in 6 winning 3 of them.

[Pretty Boy]

He was just unbearably dull (publicly, he may have been a barrel of laughs privately).

Managers who struggle to connect with fans and don't communicate well will always be up against it. We had a whole litany of them in recent times. It also makes you wonder how they get their ideas across in the dressing room and on the training pitch; in Montgomery's case if looked like he simply couldn't. What he wanted players to do was both very simple but very difficult to master, hence why only about 5 teams in the world were any good at it despite everyone trying to ape it. There came a point when he should have just abandoned it and been pragmatic in getting the players to play in a way they understood.

I don't wish him any ill but I don't for a second think he was hard done by as Hibs manager. He was never turning it round, he had as good as a whole season and was better backed than many in a transfer window and we got and were continuing to get worse. Marcondes basically throwing him to the wolves at Pittodrie shows the respect he commanded from the players as well.

[Ribs1875]

We had him for nearly a season. You claimed it was equally possible that we made the wrong decision by sacking him as it is that we made the right decision by sacking him. That is absolute nonsense based on the evidence we have, rather than an imaginary situation where he improved us so much that we got 3rd place under him.

The guy was an absolute disaster.

I have made zero claims, I sit on the fence. You and I have never been in the shoes of a football manager. We are outsiders looking in and can only speculate. I appreciate the fact football management is chaotic and my opinion is managers are often the scapegoat for the boards of football clubs. He's obviously rated highly enough to walk into a good job in Tottenham several months after his sacking.

You say he was absolute disaster? Then in your reality what does that make Terry Butcher?

[LaMotta]

Mayenda has been brilliant for Sunderland this season but somehow barely got a sniff with us despite looking positive.

He signed a player he knew in Triantis to be our starting centre half only to realise he’s not very good there and played him centre mid.

Remember when he put Landers on for Vente against Aberdeen in the semi final? Think we were 1-0 down at the time.

Constant weird subs and a desire to put young boys on at every opportunity - I’ve no issue with young boys getting a chance. But it needs to be at the right time, deserved and with the right players around them.

I’m a fan of Whittaker and thought he done really well, but I’m absolutely convinced Monty played him when he did due to his age as he knew it would break a record.

His style of football was brutal and interviews torture

I had no faith in us ever winning a game with him and thought teams were delighted to play us

I think this is a really good summary of his time here.

The only thing I can say in his defence was that his team had a terrible run of awful decisions going against it with zero help from VAR. But then on the flip side he didn't deal with that well in the press IMO ( ie said nothing) when other more experienced manages would have called out early on some of the shocking decisions. It allowed those decisions to slip under the radar.

From listening to Monty and Maloney on TV interviews, I have no idea how the club managed to think those two would be good appointments for a manager's position at Hibs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I have made zero claims, I sit on the fence. You and I have never been in the shoes of a football manager. We are outsiders looking in and can only speculate. I appreciate the fact football management is chaotic and my opinion is managers are often the scapegoat for the boards of football clubs. He's obviously rated highly enough to walk into a good job in Tottenham several months after his sacking.

You say he was absolute disaster? Then in your reality what does that make Terry Butcher?

Ok, you didn’t.


Perhaps the club were to quick to pull the trigger, and equally perhaps the club were right to do so.

[matty_f]

I was all in on Monty when he was quoted for the job. I remember watching the YouTube video of the playoff final and overlooking the fact that his team talk with the players was *really* uninspiring in favour of going with the performance and result his side put in, which were really inspiring.
The talk of the photo on the wall that the players wanted to get their photo onto as winners and the reputation he had for having a team play above its level had me completely sold on him.
I thought it was great that he said he'd play young players and followed that up by playing Whittaker - especially since Johnson before him had explained away a poor January transfer window by saying he needed space in the squad to play young players that he proceeded to ignore for the rest of his time.

His interviews were a concern from early on, he was very uninspiring - genuine, yes, but did I ever get the feeling that he'd have the players running through walls for him like Lennon, Stubbs, or Ross did? No. Far from it.

But interviews weren't important if he delivered on the pitch. We DID have some good performances under Monty but you could count them on one hand.

Far more often we watched teams let us have the ball until we made a mistake, then they'd punish us. Occasionally we'd get it right and it would look great - Tavares at Dundee, for example, or the win at St Johnstone.

But we suffered from having a coach who put his own ego and philosophy before the good of the team, and he rightly paid the price for it.

The style of play he was trying was awful. Dull, boring and, crucially, completely ineffective. Neither the fans nor the players enjoyed it, in fact the only folk who did enjoy it were our opponents.

To bring in the talent in January that he did, at a time where we still had a realistic shot at fourth place, and finish eighth, was piss poor and absolutely sackable.

Every manager has ups and downs with things they can't control, but persistent with Whittaker, for example, did nobody any favours other than our opponents. Insisting on the passing patterns when opponents had us sussed our did nobody any favours.

He seems like a great guy, and I'm sure he did his best at Hibs, I've nothing to criticise for effort or how he conducted himself but he was an awful head coach, we didn't see any players improve under him as we have with Gray, and we're far better without him.

[Paulie Walnuts]

From listening to Monty and Maloney on TV interviews, I have no idea how the club managed to think those two would be good appointments for a manager's position at Hibs.

Agree. How they’re meant to get a team up for a game is anyone’s guess.

[jacomo]

I think this is a a really good summary of his time here.

The only thing I can say in his defence was that his team had a terrible run of awful decisions going against it with zero help from VAR. But then on the flip side he didn't deal with that well in the press IMO ( ie said nothing) when other more experienced manages would have called out early on some of the shocking decisions. It allowed those decisions to slip under the radar.

From listening to Monty and Maloney on TV interviews, I have no idea how the club managed to think those two would be good appointments for a manager's position at Hibs.


He's happy to trot out this excuse now. 1 year late.

[LaMotta]

He's happy to trot out this excuse now. 1 year late.

I remember reading on here from someone that it was club policy decided at boardroom level that we weren't to criticise officials in aftermatch interviews. Not sure if that was true, but there is no doubt to me that didn't do us any favours.

[LaMotta]

i
I was all in on Monty when he was quoted for the job. I remember watching the YouTube video of the playoff final and overlooking the fact that his team talk with the players was *really* uninspiring in favour of going with the performance and result his side put in, which were really inspiring.
The talk of the photo on the wall that the players wanted to get their photo onto as winners and the reputation he had for having a team play above its level had me completely sold on him.
I thought it was great that he said he'd play young players and followed that up by playing Whittaker - especially since Johnson before him had explained away a poor January transfer window by saying he needed space in the squad to play young players that he proceeded to ignore for the rest of his time.

His interviews were a concern from early on, he was very uninspiring - genuine, yes, but did I ever get the feeling that he'd have the players running through walls for him like Lennon, Stubbs, or Ross did? No. Far from it.

But interviews weren't important if he delivered on the pitch. We DID have some good performances under Monty but you could count them on one hand.

Far more often we watched teams let us have the ball until we made a mistake, then they'd punish us. Occasionally we'd get it right and it would look great - Tavares at Dundee, for example, or the win at St Johnstone.

But we suffered from having a coach who put his own ego and philosophy before the good of the team, and he rightly paid the price for it.

The style of play he was trying was awful. Dull, boring and, crucially, completely ineffective. Neither the fans nor the players enjoyed it, in fact the only folk who did enjoy it were our opponents.

To bring in the talent in January that he did, at a time where we still had a realistic shot at fourth place, and finish eighth, was piss poor and absolutely sackable.

Every manager has ups and downs with things they can't control, but persistent with Whittaker, for example, did nobody any favours other than our opponents. Insisting on the passing patterns when opponents had us sussed our did nobody any favours.

He seems like a great guy, and I'm sure he did his best at Hibs, I've nothing to criticise for effort or how he conducted himself but he was an awful head coach, we didn't see any players improve under him as we have with Gray, and we're far better without him.

Good points again. On the young player thing, given that Whittaker struggled to make any impact at Spartans this season and Mayenda tore up the Championship with Sunderland, it seems crazy that he put so much faith in Whittaker and so little faith in Mayenda. Be interested to hear what senior players like Boyle and Newell thought of that. Maybe Mayenda just didn't show anything in training, but who knows.

Also I think Monty (like Maloney) was terrible at making substitutions. He disrupted the team a number of times with wacky subs - costing us points several times. Changing centre halves causing chaos on the defence, leaving Youan on when we were a goal up (only for Youan to switch off and for us to concede), bringing on Landers at St Mirren, taking off a visibly angry Marcondes at Tynecastle when he was having his best game for us...

[Since452]

I think this is a really good summary of his time here.

The only thing I can say in his defence was that his team had a terrible run of awful decisions going against it with zero help from VAR. But then on the flip side he didn't deal with that well in the press IMO ( ie said nothing) when other more experienced manages would have called out early on some of the shocking decisions. It allowed those decisions to slip under the radar.

From listening to Monty and Maloney on TV interviews, I have no idea how the club managed to think those two would be good appointments for a manager's position at Hibs.

Totally agree. It's no surprise that our best communicators in recent years have been out most "successful" managers over a season (Ross and SDG). Not just communication but a presence. Maloney and Montgomery didn't have that combination.

[500miles]

We did and then also switched to a 352 for Celtic away in the league cup. I think the “hand forced” line is a bit mythical.

I have a concern for next season that we went with 451/ 433 because that is what Black Knight teams play, which makes the “not listening” tantrum even sillier. There was certainly talk of having the BK teams playing similar systems so players can progress through the group.

Of all the BK teams, we are the club with the most expectation and the least margin of error. We need to be Hibs first, and part of the BK group in very small writing.


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[we are hibs]

He got a lot of leeway early doors simply because he wasn't the slavering gob***** he had replaced.


After a while it became obvious it wasn't going to work and it was Maloney mk2.


I want to see Hibs try and play football and don't mind us building from the back but you've got to do it with purpose and a bit of energy. Keeping possession for the sake of it is one of the worst things to happen to football in my lifetime. Everything under Maloney and Montgomery was so slow, dull and frustrating.


The st.mirren game where we were 3 down at half time was one of the worst halves of football I've ever seen from a Hibs team. Young Whittaker had a nightmare and anyone with half a brain would've taken him off at half time to protect him but Montgomery decided to leave him on. Terrible management to leave a struggling young player out there when it had turned completely toxic in the stadium.

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[Centre Hawf]

He got a lot of leeway early doors simply because he wasn't the slavering gob***** he had replaced.


After a while it became obvious it wasn't going to work and it was Maloney mk2.


I want to see Hibs try and play football and don't mind us building from the back but you've got to do it with purpose and a bit of energy. Keeping possession for the sake of it is one of the worst things to happen to football in my lifetime. Everything under Maloney and Montgomery was so slow, dull and frustrating.


The st.mirren game where we were 3 down at half time was one of the worst halves of football I've ever seen from a Hibs team. Young Whittaker had a nightmare and anyone with half a brain would've taken him off at half time to protect him but Montgomery decided to leave him on. Terrible management to leave a struggling young player out there when it had turned completely toxic in the stadium.

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That day utterly infuriated me mostly because me and a pal said at half-time we'll leave if they score again and the *******s turned it into a training match instead and we had to sit and suffer the second 45 minutes.

[matty_f]

I have a concern for next season that we went with 451/ 433 because that is what Black Knight teams play, which makes the “not listening” tantrum even sillier. There was certainly talk of having the BK teams playing similar systems so players can progress through the group.

Of all the BK teams, we are the club with the most expectation and the least margin of error. We need to be Hibs first, and part of the BK group in very small writing.


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I don't think that'll come into it at all. It doesn't work to prescribe a formation across different teams in different leagues with different challenges. If there are to be consistencies between teams in the group it's far more realistic to apply that to principles of play - ie pressing style, counter attacking, etc. Things that can be done no matter the formation.

[Smartie]

i

Good points again. On the young player thing, given that Whittaker struggled to make any impact at Spartans this season and Mayenda tore up the Championship with Sunderland, it seems crazy that he put so much faith in Whittaker and so little faith in Mayenda. Be interested to hear what senior players like Boyle and Newell thought of that. Maybe Mayenda just didn't show anything in training, but who knows.

Also I think Monty (like Maloney) was terrible at making substitutions. He disrupted the team a number of times with wacky subs - costing us points several times. Changing centre halves causing chaos on the defence, leaving Youan on when we were a goal up (only for Youan to switch off and for us to concede), bringing on Landers at St Mirren, taking off a visibly angry Marcondes at Tynecastle when he was having his best game for us...

Probably worth making the point (again) about how good Gray is at making substitutions - he gets them on point almost every time.

We've emerged from tricky spells in games after half time that have been turned into comfortable victories with the right changes being made at the right time. It's easy to dismiss this as the games ended up being comfortable wins but there was a danger we could be pegged back or overcome had he dithered, made the wrong moves or made changes to the wrong part of the team.

They've sometimes been pretty bold too - taking of players who had had a good game in favour of players needed to provide a bit of energy (I'm thinking of a couple of Campbell for Hoilett changes). They don't always necessarily look right at the time but they always look right with hindsight.

He's probably only once or twice that I can remember (Rangers at home around Christmas, Dundee United away last October or so) that he's had to make early tactical changes or substitutions because we were clearly toiling. Both times we improved drastically.

Gray has shown up a few more experienced predecessors with this sort of thing already. Rarely do you get "wtf" moments with him and even when you do get an eyebrow raiser of a decision it ends up being vindicated. Plenty of times under Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery the "wtf" ended up being followed by consequences you could have seen coming a mile off.

[overdrive]

Probably worth making the point (again) about how good Gray is at making substitutions - he gets them on point almost every time.

We've emerged from tricky spells in games after half time that have been turned into comfortable victories with the right changes being made at the right time. It's easy to dismiss this as the games ended up being comfortable wins but there was a danger we could be pegged back or overcome had he dithered, made the wrong moves or made changes to the wrong part of the team.

They've sometimes been pretty bold too - taking of players who had had a good game in favour of players needed to provide a bit of energy (I'm thinking of a couple of Campbell for Hoilett changes). They don't always necessarily look right at the time but they always look right with hindsight.

He's probably only once or twice that I can remember (Rangers at home around Christmas, Dundee United away last October or so) that he's had to make early tactical changes or substitutions because we were clearly toiling. Both times we improved drastically.

Gray has shown up a few more experienced predecessors with this sort of thing already. Rarely do you get "wtf" moments with him and even when you do get an eyebrow raiser of a decision it ends up being vindicated. Plenty of times under Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery the "wtf" ended up being followed by consequences you could have seen coming a mile off.

Now he is but at the start of the season, he was getting a lot of stick for his subs. It seemed as if it was making subs that was the catalyst of us throwing away leads and points in that difficult August-October spell. He's learned though which is what separates him out.

[LaMotta]

Totally agree. It's no surprise that our best communicators in recent years have been out most "successful" managers over a season (Ross and SDG). Not just communication but a presence. Maloney and Montgomery didn't have that combination.


Probably worth making the point (again) about how good Gray is at making substitutions - he gets them on point almost every time.

We've emerged from tricky spells in games after half time that have been turned into comfortable victories with the right changes being made at the right time. It's easy to dismiss this as the games ended up being comfortable wins but there was a danger we could be pegged back or overcome had he dithered, made the wrong moves or made changes to the wrong part of the team.

They've sometimes been pretty bold too - taking of players who had had a good game in favour of players needed to provide a bit of energy (I'm thinking of a couple of Campbell for Hoilett changes). They don't always necessarily look right at the time but they always look right with hindsight.

He's probably only once or twice that I can remember (Rangers at home around Christmas, Dundee United away last October or so) that he's had to make early tactical changes or substitutions because we were clearly toiling. Both times we improved drastically.

Gray has shown up a few more experienced predecessors with this sort of thing already. Rarely do you get "wtf" moments with him and even when you do get an eyebrow raiser of a decision it ends up being vindicated. Plenty of times under Maloney, Johnson and Montgomery the "wtf" ended up being followed by consequences you could have seen coming a mile off.

:agree::agree:

[Onion]

Now he is but at the start of the season, he was getting a lot of stick for his subs. It seemed as if it was making subs that was the catalyst of us throwing away leads and points in that difficult August-October spell. He's learned though which is what separates him out.

Agreed. IMO sign of a good/great manager is his ability to read and effect games when change is needed. You can always tell the quality of manger in the timing and choice of subs. Almost all the garbage managers we've had have been shockingly crap at this. SDG has become excellent, so bodes well for this and our future.

Best example of this was GJP (Red Lex). His ability to time and choose subs was off the scale compared to previous managers - and he did ok.