'Major incident' at Liverpool parade

[Hibspur]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn5xnlkegz0t

I haven't seen this awful news mentioned, so apologies if it's not for this forum. Dread to think what we'll hear at 10.30.

[danhibees1875]

Scrolling through Twitter and hadn't heard of the incident and unfortunately seen a clip of the incident... wow.

I've never seen anything like it. Fingers crossed no one is seriously injured.

[ekhibee]

Was just watching the BBC report on it. Really disturbing, something like that ruining the day for many people who were just going to celebrate. Just hope nobody is too seriously injured, but listening to the various accounts I doubt it sadly.

[B.H.F.C]

I didn’t realise the severity of it when I first heard it mentioned. But then when you see the PM putting out statements so quickly after you start to realise it’s not very good.

[green day]

Looked deliberate from the footage I saw.

Awful

[He's here!]

Horrendous.

We seem to hear of vehicles being driven into crowded events around the world with increasing regularity. Such a monstrous thing to do.

[He's here!]

27 people in hospital, four of them children.

No fatalities reported as yet but I'm guessing some of these people will be severely injured.

[B.H.F.C]

27 people in hospital, four of them children.

No fatalities reported as yet but I'm guessing some of these people will be severely injured.

They mentioned 2 seriously injured, 1 adult and 1 child.

Isolated incident and not being treated as terrorism.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Isolated incident and not being treated as terrorism.

Looked like an act of terror to me.

[lugz]

Looked like an act of terror to me.

Certainly caused Terror but they're confident it's an isolated incident and not linked to such groups.

[KeithTheHibby]

There’s quite a bit of footage doing the rounds on social media. Looks like the driver just lost the plot prior to hitting all the supporters.

[He's here!]

Jeez, one of the people hit survived the Manchester Arena bombing.

I guess there's an element of relief this doesn't seem to be terror-related but it's still bewildering what would provoke such behaviour if the driver wasn't out of their head on drink or drugs.

[jakeshibs]

My thoughts and prayers are with all the injured hoping for a full recovery.

[J-C]

Seemingly the road wasn't closed off for the parade, so cars were allowed on it, looks like the driver just lost and went mad.

[Hibspur]

Notable that the police were extremely quick on this occasion to release details of the guy arrested, presumably to put a lid on any of the speculation that ran wild after Southport.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Notable that the police were extremely quick on this occasion to release details of the guy arrested, presumably to put a lid on any of the speculation that ran wild after Southport.

:agree:

And quite rightly as well. Joey Barton for example was straight onto Twitter claiming “we all know what’s gone on here” for example.

Even after we’ve been told he’s white and we’ve all seen the video there’s still people on Twitter using this as an attack on immigrants.

[blackpoolhibs]

From the limited TV evidence I saw, could the driver have been petrified he was going to be beaten up that he panicked and put his foot down and lost control? It did look like folk wanted to drag him out the car before the incident happened, or maybe that was people trying to stop him doing more damage and what I've seen was halfway through the incident?

[Hibernian Verse]

From the limited TV evidence I saw, could the driver have been petrified he was going to be beaten up that he panicked and put his foot down and lost control? It did look like folk wanted to drag him out the car before the incident happened, or maybe that was people trying to stop him doing more damage and what I've seen was halfway through the incident?

Think that's exactly what happened. They opened his driver side door and he went.

[Pagan Hibernia]

:agree:

And quite rightly as well. Joey Barton for example was straight onto Twitter claiming “we all know what’s gone on here” for example.

Even after we’ve been told he’s white and we’ve all seen the video there’s still people on Twitter using this as an attack on immigrants.

They're now showing pictures of a guy who doesn't look white and trying to claim without any evidence that he was the driver... twitter really is to be avoided, for the sake of our mental health. Full of lunatics that place.

[Basildon Hibs]

:agree:

And quite rightly as well. Joey Barton for example was straight onto Twitter claiming “we all know what’s gone on here” for example.

Even after we’ve been told he’s white and we’ve all seen the video there’s still people on Twitter using this as an attack on immigrants.

Aye, the Gammons and Deform voters will be devastated that it's allegedly, a White suspect.

[He's here!]

From the limited TV evidence I saw, could the driver have been petrified he was going to be beaten up that he panicked and put his foot down and lost control? It did look like folk wanted to drag him out the car before the incident happened, or maybe that was people trying to stop him doing more damage and what I've seen was halfway through the incident?

I think the latter suggestion is more likely. I don't think the reaction from folk there would have been so aggressive had he just been someone who'd inadvertently found himself stuck in a crowded area.

All speculation though.

[Northernhibee]

They're now showing pictures of a guy who doesn't look white and trying to claim without any evidence that he was the driver... twitter really is to be avoided, for the sake of our mental health. Full of lunatics that place.

It’s scary how quickly stuff like that gathers traction as well, lots of idiots now parroting that.

[Hibspur]

Aye, the Gammons and Deform voters will be devastated that it's allegedly, a White suspect.

The authorities made a major mistake post-Southport in keeping the killer's ethnicity under wraps for several days. That only fuelled the 'two-tier policing' accusations and implied they had something to hide. Had they made the details public in a similar way to they did last night we might have been spared the worst of what ensued. It's a valuable lesson learned because only the most extreme conspiracists will try to gain any mileage from this awful incident (although of course we know nothing about the motives as yet).

[Aldo]

The authorities made a major mistake post-Southport in keeping the killer's ethnicity under wraps for several days. That only fuelled the 'two-tier policing' accusations and implied they had something to hide. Had they made the details public in a similar way to they did last night we might have been spared the worst of what ensued. It's a valuable lesson learned because only the most extreme conspiracists will try to gain any mileage from this awful incident (although of course we know nothing about the motives as yet).

I don’t think they did. I actually wonder if they thought if we say something here this could kick off and before they knew it the details had spread and we all know what happened.

I also believe it would have kicked off regardless even if they had provided the relevant information on that terrible day. Certain folk just look for any excuse to ramp up the hatred and violence.

The police have to balance what information they provide to ensure it doesn’t hamper any investigation.

They called it yesterday and it was the right call.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t at times.

[Hibspur]

I don’t think they did. I actually wonder if they thought if we say something here this could kick off and before they knew it the details had spread and we all know what happened.

I also believe it would have kicked off regardless even if they had provided the relevant information on that terrible day. Certain folk just look for any excuse to ramp up the hatred and violence.

The police have to balance what information they provide to ensure it doesn’t hamper any investigation.

They called it yesterday and it was the right call.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t at times.

Yes, prejudicing any future trial is obviously important, but I don't recall any significant national unrest in the wake of the MP David Amess's murder by an IS sympathiser and if memory serves me right his name was made public pretty quickly. Similar in the wake of the Manchester bombing, London Bridge, 7/7 etc. Most reasonable people just want to see justice being done and are simply horrified at the crime rather than wanting to whip up widespread uproar. I'm not convinced we'd have seen anything like the reaction to Southport had the authorities been more up front with information. As you say, though, some will try to exploit anything to their own ends.

[heidtheba]

My partner's uncle and his kids were out to see that parade, it's awful how often stuff like this is happening.
I thnk it's not inappropriate to say a wee 'thanks' to our oft-maligned Council for the crash barriers they erected on the Royal Mile. They may not look pretty, they could have done a better job, but it was vital we got some protection up there, especially for the Festival period.

[overdrive]

My partner's uncle and his kids were out to see that parade, it's awful how often stuff like this is happening.
I thnk it's not inappropriate to say a wee 'thanks' to our oft-maligned Council for the crash barriers they erected on the Royal Mile. They may not look pretty, they could have done a better job, but it was vital we got some protection up there, especially for the Festival period.

Yeah my wife works in the festival industry and her work have had to move events as they are expected to pay for extra crash barriers, the cost of closing roads, etc. as the council and police won’t allow them to hold the event otherwise and as a result it has become financially impractical for them to hold events where that is needed. She is amazed something like that is allowed without closing roads and putting up crash barriers, etc. as it would attract bigger numbers than anything her work is involved in.

[GloryGlory]

They're now showing pictures of a guy who doesn't look white and trying to claim without any evidence that he was the driver... twitter really is to be avoided, for the sake of our mental health. Full of lunatics that place.

The usual mouth breathers were as usual quick off the mark making wholly false and wild allegations without an ounce of proof, and demanding wholescale round ups and deportations of any non white person found walking the street. I wonder sometimes if they sit at their computers all day long looking for the next excuse to be outraged.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The usual mouth breathers were as usual quick off the mark making wholly false and wild allegations without an ounce of proof, and demanding wholescale round ups and deportations of any non white person found walking the street. I wonder sometimes if they sit at their computers all day long looking for the next excuse to be outraged.

Very true. The irony being that those same people are the most likely to accuse other so-called 'snowflakes' of being too easily offended! 😂

[Cammy]

I think the latter suggestion is more likely. I don't think the reaction from folk there would have been so aggressive had he just been someone who'd inadvertently found himself stuck in a crowded area.

All speculation though.

From the videos it looks like his car being targetted was what caused the drivers panic. The roads should have been closed. A terrible incident that could have been avoided.

[Northernhibee]

The usual mouth breathers were as usual quick off the mark making wholly false and wild allegations without an ounce of proof, and demanding wholescale round ups and deportations of any non white person found walking the street. I wonder sometimes if they sit at their computers all day long looking for the next excuse to be outraged.

Let’s be honest, they’re not outraged by this stuff, they’re delighted by it. It’s their opportunity to create unrest and recruit more people to the far right.

[danhibees1875]

From the videos it looks like his car being targetted was what caused the drivers panic. The roads should have been closed. A terrible incident that could have been avoided.

I'm always warry of these sort of assumptions as you never know the timeline involved and what happened beforehand.

[GloryGlory]

Let’s be honest, they’re not outraged by this stuff, they’re delighted by it. It’s their opportunity to create unrest and recruit more people to the far right.

Yes - that's why I called it an excuse. These people have an agenda that seeks to foment violence and disruption to further their political ends by finger pointing and blaming whole sections of the community for the criminal actions of individuals.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yes - that's why I called it an excuse. These people have an agenda that seeks to foment violence and disruption to further their political ends by finger pointing and blaming whole sections of the community for the criminal actions of individuals.

:agree:

You just have to look at Farage for an example. After Southport he felt compelled to release a video message full of misinformation and blatant suggestion that the attack was the doing of immigrants, followed by a barrage of. It wasn’t. He followed this up with a barrage of communication on the incident in the following days. He was given the chance to fill the void to gain political capital with his brain dead following.

Contrast to this and he’s posted two sentences on social media and hasn’t mentioned it again. ****bags like him care not a jot for the victims of these attacks and I’d go as far to say they’ll feel a genuine sense of disappointment that the chance to yet again falsely blame immigrants has been taken away from them.

[LaMotta]

:agree:

You just have to look at Farage for an example. After Southport he felt compelled to release a video message full of misinformation and blatant suggestion that the attack was the doing of immigrants, followed by a barrage of. It wasn’t. He followed this up with a barrage of communication on the incident in the following days. He was given the chance to fill the void to gain political capital with his brain dead following.

Contrast to this and he’s posted two sentences on social media and hasn’t mentioned it again. ****bags like him care not a jot for the victims of these attacks and I’d go as far to say they’ll feel a genuine sense of disappointment that the chance to yet again falsely blame immigrants has been taken away from them.

Spot on. Laurence Fox the same. Absolute weirdos.

[Cammy]

I'm always warry of these sort of assumptions as you never know the timeline involved and what happened beforehand.

Very true.

[21.05.2016]

:agree:

And quite rightly as well. Joey Barton for example was straight onto Twitter claiming “we all know what’s gone on here” for example.

Even after we’ve been told he’s white and we’ve all seen the video there’s still people on Twitter using this as an attack on immigrants.

Joey Bartons a horrible wee cretin desperate for attention. Absolute weirdo of a guy.

Thoughts to all those affected yesterday and hopefully everyone injured makes a full recovery quickly. Absolutely horrible stuff.

[B.H.F.C]

From the videos it looks like his car being targetted was what caused the drivers panic. The roads should have been closed. A terrible incident that could have been avoided.

When they did the press conference one of the very first things the Chief Constable mentioned was that they’d had a robust traffic management plan in place. It just sounded like a ‘don’t blame us’ opening to the statement.

[Aldo]

Yes, prejudicing any future trial is obviously important, but I don't recall any significant national unrest in the wake of the MP David Amess's murder by an IS sympathiser and if memory serves me right his name was made public pretty quickly. Similar in the wake of the Manchester bombing, London Bridge, 7/7 etc. Most reasonable people just want to see justice being done and are simply horrified at the crime rather than wanting to whip up widespread uproar. I'm not convinced we'd have seen anything like the reaction to Southport had the authorities been more up front with information. As you say, though, some will try to exploit anything to their own ends.

Neither do I tbh but sadly there are plenty keyboard warriors ready to jump on anything and set the wheels in motion. Just like that weapon Barton.

Can only hope those injured make a recovery both physically and mentally.

[CapitalGreen]

Driver has been charged with driving while unfit through drugs.

[He's here!]

I don’t think they did. I actually wonder if they thought if we say something here this could kick off and before they knew it the details had spread and we all know what happened.

I also believe it would have kicked off regardless even if they had provided the relevant information on that terrible day. Certain folk just look for any excuse to ramp up the hatred and violence.

The police have to balance what information they provide to ensure it doesn’t hamper any investigation.

They called it yesterday and it was the right call.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t at times.

I thought the police compounded the error by initially releasing a pic of the killer as a young schoolboy when they would obviously have had his mug shot by then. There were also plenty witnesses to the horrific attack (which is likely where any misinformation stemmed from) so releasing his gender, age and ethnicity after he'd been arrested shouldn't have seemed unreasonable. Don't think it was an issue after the Nottingham stabbings? They've shown last night that these basic details can be released swiftly if they so wish.

[Aldo]

I thought the police compounded the error by initially releasing a pic of the killer as a young schoolboy when they would obviously have had his mug shot by then. There were also plenty witnesses to the horrific attack (which is likely where any misinformation stemmed from) so releasing his gender, age and ethnicity after he'd been arrested shouldn't have seemed unreasonable. Don't think it was an issue after the Nottingham stabbings? They've shown last night that these basic details can be released swiftly if they so wish.

Again that’s a decision for each individual force to make. As I mentioned before it’s easy to say they should have done this or should have done that or shouldn’t have done this or that etc

All in all I don’t think anyone could have anticipated the reaction and events that followed in Southport.

Just seen the latest update and the driver has been charged with Attempt Murder, dangerous driving and being unfit through drugs.

[Bostonhibby]

Joey Bartons a horrible wee cretin desperate for attention. Absolute weirdo of a guy.

Thoughts to all those affected yesterday and hopefully everyone injured makes a full recovery quickly. Absolutely horrible stuff.If it's not possible to prosecute him for potential incitement here it should be. Odious attention seeking weirdo

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

Driver has been charged with driving while unfit through drugs.

Arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. That's the big one. Implies there was intent.

[GloryGlory]

Arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. That's the big one. Implies there was intent.

Or criminal recklessness maybe?

[Hibspur]

Or criminal recklessness maybe?

I thought intent to kill/malice aforethought was the barometer for a murder charge but it's a while since I read up on it.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

They're now showing pictures of a guy who doesn't look white and trying to claim without any evidence that he was the driver... twitter really is to be avoided, for the sake of our mental health. Full of lunatics that place.

Site should be banned right across Europe. Far less damaging websites have been geo blocked over the years but this cesspit full of AI bots programmed to spread an extremely dangerous agenda is allowed to continue on. It's as if they want the world to crumble and that's exactly where things are heading.

[Greencore]

God bless the people affected. Hope the guy who done it rots. My brother and nephew went down and whitnessed it. My Brother (understandably) is just in shock, him and his son are fine and back home.

[Blaster]

Arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. That's the big one. Implies there was intent.

Probably end up being attempted manslaughter. I think I read a charge can go down the way in severity but not increase. So it always starts at the higher possible charge

[Mon_the_cabbage]

Arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. That's the big one. Implies there was intent.

It does not imply that.

Attempted murder can also be convicted if it is proven to be a reckless act with disregard for the consequences (like driving a car in a crowded area). This is certainly the case in Scotland

[theonlywayisup]

Arrested on suspicion of attempted murder. That's the big one. Implies there was intent.

The driver may not have entered the street with the intention to cause harm, but surely he knew what he was doing accelerating and changing direction towards the fans.

[Aldo]

The driver may not have entered the street with the intention to cause harm, but surely he knew what he was doing accelerating and changing direction towards the fans.

He’s also been charged with driving whilst unfit through drugs so maybe he didn’t know what he was doing as he as out of his face?

[theonlywayisup]

He’s also been charged with driving whilst unfit through drugs so maybe he didn’t know what he was doing?

Yes, that will be his defence.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

He’s also been charged with driving whilst unfit through drugs so maybe he didn’t know what he was doing?

He knew what he was doing when he took the drugs.

[Aldo]

Yes, that will be his defence.

Totally will be and may get him off the attempt murder charge.

[Aldo]

He knew what he was doing when he took the drugs.

Indeed that maybe the case however did he know he was driving the car?

They’ve libelled the most serious of offences and rightly so and it’s now up to his defence team to disprove what’s been put to the courts.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Indeed that maybe the case however did he know he was driving the car?

They’ve libelled the most serious of offences and rightly so and it’s now up to his defence team to disprove what’s been put to the courts.

Is it not the prosecutors job to prove it?

[Aldo]

Is it not the prosecutors job to prove it?


It is.

I said it was up to his defence team to disprove what’s been put to the courts.

[JimBHibees]

Is it not the prosecutors job to prove it?

Absolutely

[silverhibee]

I don’t think they did. I actually wonder if they thought if we say something here this could kick off and before they knew it the details had spread and we all know what happened.

I also believe it would have kicked off regardless even if they had provided the relevant information on that terrible day. Certain folk just look for any excuse to ramp up the hatred and violence.

The police have to balance what information they provide to ensure it doesn’t hamper any investigation.

They called it yesterday and it was the right call.

They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t at times.

The police had no option, this was caught happening live, it was clear as day the guy was white, so why try to hold that information back, I can understand why they done it with the child killer.

[CropleyWasGod]

It is.

I said it was up to his defence team to disprove what’s been put to the courts.

It isn't.

This might help.

https://www.fonsecalaw.co.uk/blog/patricks-blog/2023/08/23/the-role-of-a-criminal-defence-lawyer#:~:text=A%20criminal%20defence%20lawyer%20s erves,throughout%20the%20criminal%20justice%20proc ess.

[Aldo]

It isn't.

This might help.

https://www.fonsecalaw.co.uk/blog/patricks-blog/2023/08/23/the-role-of-a-criminal-defence-lawyer#:~:text=A%20criminal%20defence%20lawyer%20s erves,throughout%20the%20criminal%20justice%20proc ess.

The bit below you highlighted -

Our primary goal is to challenge the prosecution's evidence and arguments, striving to achieve the best possible outcome for your case.

Place doubt in the jury’s mind.

Disprove/challenge/discredit all the same aim. To get their client off.

[CropleyWasGod]

The bit below you highlighted -

Our primary goal is to challenge the prosecution's evidence and arguments, striving to achieve the best possible outcome for your case.

Place doubt in the jury’s mind.

Disprove/challenge/discredit all the same aim. To get their client off.

Challenge, sure, but not disprove.

Semantics. That's what lawyers feed on :greengrin

[Aldo]

Challenge, sure, but not disprove.

Semantics. That's what lawyers feed on :greengrin

[emoji2957][emoji41]

[He's here!]

It does not imply that.

Attempted murder can also be convicted if it is proven to be a reckless act with disregard for the consequences (like driving a car in a crowded area). This is certainly the case in Scotland

Different in English law I think. Might be wrong but I think there has to be malice forethought.