‘Like being transported back in time’

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/may/04/rangers-celtic-scottish-premiership-match-report

Ewan Murray probably thinks he’s doing his job here, by referencing yesterday’s disgraceful Tifo in the national press. But essentially he’s lying. The rendition of NPOR and the Billy Boys (many of his English readers wont be familiar with the lyrics, so he lets The Rangers off the hook here), was apparently like ‘being transported back in time’. :dunno: To when? Last week? Anyone watching rangers away support know this blatant racism happens at EVERY away game. Its racism, lets call it what it is. If you are a journalist who doesn’t mention it, you are lying to your readers. It doesnt happen in England or France or Germany. When it happens in Italy, stands get closed.

How do we continue to accept this scourge on our society? Why is it so openly tolerated?

[SickBoy32]

As you say it is in plain sight each and every week. Yesterday was on another level however. Routinely and deliberately ignored. Embarrassing from both the police and the media, and to put it simply it calls into question the integrity of both.

Not long til we are subjected to the annual hate marches on public roads too.
Scotland is a beautiful country in many regards, but this issue shows that we are not nearly as progressive as many claim. Full of bigots, and I include a sizeable chunk of the hearts support in that too - as evidenced by their usual Hampden songbook the other week.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/may/04/rangers-celtic-scottish-premiership-match-report

Ewan Murray probably thinks he’s doing his job here, by referencing yesterday’s disgraceful Tifo in the national press. But essentially he’s lying. The rendition of NPOR and the Billy Boys (many of his English readers wont be familiar with the lyrics, so he lets The Rangers off the hook here), was apparently like ‘being transported back in time’. :dunno: To when? Last week? Anyone watching rangers away support know this blatant racism happens at EVERY away game. Its racism, lets call it what it is. If you are a journalist who doesn’t mention it, you are lying to your readers. It doesnt happen in England or France or Germany. When it happens in Italy, stands get closed.

How do we continue to accept this scourge on our society? Why is it so openly tolerated?

Great post and spot on we are regularly failed in this country by media authorities both football and non football plus clubs themselves. Shameful

[Thatdayinmay16]

2 cheeks of the same arse, best ignored. It'll never change, it's to far gone down the line now.

[Up-the-slope]

I know we have had the arguments against 'strict liability' talked to death.... the 'we can't be responsible for what individuals do / sing' etc...

regardless of you view on that this a whole different level.

'wisnay our fault that they snuck a 75 mt sq banner into the ground'..... 'must have had it up their jumper'

total collusion by assisting it to be brought in (fire proof too if like @ ER) and displayed - its not 4 blokes holding up a hastily brought in political flag...

[Hibernian Verse]

I know we have had the arguments against 'strict liability' talked to death.... the 'we can't be responsible for what individuals do / sing' etc...

regardless of you view on that this a whole different level.

'wisnay our fault that they snuck a 75 mt sq banner into the ground'..... 'must have had it up their jumper'

total collusion by assisting it to be brought in (fire proof too if like @ ER) and displayed - its not 4 blokes holding up a hastily brought in political flag...

Going by their statement it looks like the Union Bears have taken too much rope this time, and Rangers had got complacent.

The Board, despite the fact they are Rangers, won't have colluded or known about it ahead of time. All it does is give them a headache, someone down the tree hasn't done their job diligently enough.

[NAE NOOKIE]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/may/04/rangers-celtic-scottish-premiership-match-report

Ewan Murray probably thinks he’s doing his job here, by referencing yesterday’s disgraceful Tifo in the national press. But essentially he’s lying. The rendition of NPOR and the Billy Boys (many of his English readers wont be familiar with the lyrics, so he lets The Rangers off the hook here), was apparently like ‘being transported back in time’. :dunno: To when? Last week? Anyone watching rangers away support know this blatant racism happens at EVERY away game. Its racism, lets call it what it is. If you are a journalist who doesn’t mention it, you are lying to your readers. It doesnt happen in England or France or Germany. When it happens in Italy, stands get closed.

How do we continue to accept this scourge on our society? Why is it so openly tolerated?

The answer is in your post mate. It's simply a fact that the MSM in this country have failed in their duty as journalists to highlight and call out their bigotry for decades, and the more we head into the 21st century the more despicable their silence becomes. Not to mention the SFA / SPFL failing utterly to address the issue, for the simple reason that if they punish Rangers in any meaningful way they would feel obliged to do the same to Celtic as the 'whitabootery' ramped up to 11.

These two clubs have such a stranglehold over our game that both ruling bodies have a default position of handing them bigger allocations for cup finals, without even bothering to give the other clubs a window to prove they could sell their half of a 50/50 allocation. Not even Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen, who have all proved time and again they can sell 23,000 tickets for a game at Hampden.

Is there any other league in Europe where two teams are given automatic preference over the others, making the idea of a neutral venue for cup finals a joke ..... in case they haven't noticed neutrality should also mean an equal distribution of support for both clubs inside the stadium, where that is at all feasible.

What impact did it have on the MSM or the folk running our game when complaints from our fans over being subjected to this hate fest every time they visited finally pushed the club into cutting their allocation? In any other league in the world the papers would have been full of it, especially in a league where ticket sales is a huge portion of every club's income. In Scotland it barely rated a mention outside of Edinburgh.

That's what we are up against.

[PatHead]

Great post and spot on we are regularly failed in this country by media authorities both football and non football plus clubs themselves. Shameful

Don't ignore politicians from this discussion either. That is from all parties.

[The Harp Awakes]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/may/04/rangers-celtic-scottish-premiership-match-report

Ewan Murray probably thinks he’s doing his job here, by referencing yesterday’s disgraceful Tifo in the national press. But essentially he’s lying. The rendition of NPOR and the Billy Boys (many of his English readers wont be familiar with the lyrics, so he lets The Rangers off the hook here), was apparently like ‘being transported back in time’. :dunno: To when? Last week? Anyone watching rangers away support know this blatant racism happens at EVERY away game. Its racism, lets call it what it is. If you are a journalist who doesn’t mention it, you are lying to your readers. It doesnt happen in England or France or Germany. When it happens in Italy, stands get closed.

How do we continue to accept this scourge on our society? Why is it so openly tolerated?

The rendition of NPOR was defeaning and must have been sung by >90% of their support inside Ibrox.

It's the defining factor for me. There are bammers in every club's support but typically in the minority. Rangers as a club and support only exist due to bigotry and racism. In any other country in the world outside Scotland and Northern Ireland they would have been shut down decades ago.

[Chorley Hibee]

Bill Leckie piece today states "Rangers hate filled MINORITY"

The media are cowards and, ultimately, part of it.

There's no minority, it's a club built upon bigotry and racism and without it the club are nothing.

Nothing will come of this, again.

[Bostonhibby]

Bill Leckie piece today states "Rangers hate filled MINORITY"

The media are cowards and, ultimately, part of it.

There's no minority, it's a club built upon bigotry and racism and without it the club are nothing.

Nothing will come of this, again.Maybe they put all their "minority" on the Copeland Road stand yesterday.

Beasts

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[Phil MaGlass]

Thing is, as the police and authorities regularly let them get away with their bigot chants, sneaking into grounds with fake tickets, pitch invasions, throwing broken bottles on the pitch, letting flares off, on and on and on and on and on... they are now untouchable, the tifo, really, nobody at the club saw that coming, just wtaf?
Points deduction and closed stand for next season wouldnt go amiss.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Words of criticism don’t bother them. The only way it will be stopped is when the SPFL and SFA start to impose serious sanctions for their behaviour, including points deductions and games behind closed doors. That’s when the Old Firm will wake up and start to address the problem. It should have happened years ago, but the authorities are terrified of taking them on.

[CropleyWasGod]

Words of criticism don’t bother them. The only way it will be stopped is when the SPFL and SFA start to impose serious sanctions for their behaviour, including points deductions and games behind closed doors. That’s when the Old Firm will wake up and start to address the problem. It should have happened years ago, but the authorities are terrified of taking them on.

Been said many times before, but the SPFL and SFA have no power to act.

The clubs, who make the rules, have no appetite for strict liability. Understandably so, IMO.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Been said many times before, but the SPFL and SFA have no power to act.

The clubs, who make the rules, have no appetite for strict liability. Understandably so, IMO.

The other clubs are likely motivated by self-interest, fearing the sanctions could affect them at some point. However, they need to show moral courage, as nothing will change without decisive action. Strict liability in European competitions has forced the Old Firm to change their behaviour. At some point this problem will have to be addressed.

[Chuck Rhoades]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.

I don’t think we can afford to ignore it any longer. Scotland needs to finally move on from 1690. Marching season will soon be here again, with hundreds of Orange walks and Loyalist flute bands across the central belt, accompanied by their supporters in their Sevco gear. No wonder those from outside Scotland feel like they have been transported back in time.

[Thatdayinmay16]

I don’t think we can afford to ignore it any longer. Scotland needs to finally move on from 1690. Marching season will soon be here again, with hundreds of Orange walks and Loyalist flute bands across the central belt, accompanied by their supporters in their Sevco gear. No wonder those from outside Scotland feel like they have been transported back in time.

it's not just them though, Celtic are abhorrent at times as well.

They thrive off attention, as the previous poster mentioned, it's best ignored.

[Pretty Boy]

As asked above; transported back in time to when? Last month? The last time Rangers played? The Orange March that took place in Helensburgh last week and made headlines?

Pretending this isn't a real and current issue is a huge part of the problem. It's not a 'secret shame' or something that existed in a bygone age. It's full blown hatred, sectarianism and xenophobia on public display week after week, year after year. A bunch of bams cosplaying around a conflict that the vast majority had no direct experience of and which was devastating for those who did live it. A weird fetish for weird people.

[gbhibby]

The police were quick to intervene when a Rangers fan was tying an Israeli flag onto some netting beside the Celtic fans.

[JimBHibees]

Don't ignore politicians from this discussion either. That is from all parties.

They were covered by authorities non-football 😊

[JimBHibees]

Going by their statement it looks like the Union Bears have taken too much rope this time, and Rangers had got complacent.

The Board, despite the fact they are Rangers, won't have colluded or known about it ahead of time. All it does is give them a headache, someone down the tree hasn't done their job diligently enough.

Absolutely refuse to believe the club didn’t know. The same group the club called out a few weeks back about a message after a European game.

[JimBHibees]

Been said many times before, but the SPFL and SFA have no power to act.

The clubs, who make the rules, have no appetite for strict liability. Understandably so, IMO.

Think it is about time they did

[Jim44]

Bill Leckie piece today states "Rangers hate filled MINORITY"

The media are cowards and, ultimately, part of it.

There's no minority, it's a club built upon bigotry and racism and without it the club are nothing.

Nothing will come of this, again.

……….. the football Authorities know this and, at most, will only pay lip service to the problem. If bigotry was removed completely, Scottish football, as it exists today, would eventually shrink into obscurity akin to the likes of Andorrra or Lichtenstein.

[CropleyWasGod]

Think it is about time they did

If they did:-

1st up..... Hibs, for Block 7 scrapping with stewards at Aberdeen.

2nd up.... Morton and Raith, for their fans scrapping with each other.

3rd.... Rangers? "It's just a banner, mate. Nobody's at risk."

I'm a fan of strict liability, but I think we need to think it through. Unintended consequences and all that.

[HoboHarry]

Been said many times before, but the SPFL and SFA have no power to act.

The clubs, who make the rules, have no appetite for strict liability. Understandably so, IMO.
Agree with what you say but I don't think the SFA would get serious with the uglies even if they could. I've said for years that the SFA historically have been as thick as thieves with the old Rangers (think Jim Farry and that mess or Regan/Doncaster with their social unrest nonsense more recently) and I've believed for years that they all know where the bodies are buried and for the SFA to go after Sevco would simply end in mutual destruction.

[A Hi-Bee]

Already been marching around, the woman's branch of oranges or whatever they call themselves, just ****in weird as someone said it is 2025.

[JimBHibees]

If they did:-

1st up..... Hibs, for Block 7 scrapping with stewards at Aberdeen.

2nd up.... Morton and Raith fans for scrapping with each other.

3rd.... Rangers? It's just a banner, mate. Nobody's at risk.

I'm a fan of strict liability, but I think we need to think it through. Unintended consequences and all that.

I get that however still think that should happen otherwise nothing changes

[Keith_M]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.


Is that your view on racism as well, or do you ignore things selectively?

[TelaStella]

I really can’t understand why the tifo has caused the amount of grief it has?


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[SickBoy32]

If bigotry was removed completely, Scottish football, as it exists today, would eventually shrink into obscurity akin to the likes of Andorrra or Lichtenstein.

What a depressing attitude, reminiscent of the ‘too wee, too poor’ mindset which has held Scotland back for decades.

As to your point, total nonsense.

[SickBoy32]

Is that your view on racism as well, or do you ignore things selectively?

This is the crux of the matter.

If we had annual anti-black hate marches on our public roads I’m sure there would be a different stance.

Same goes for if there was 50k regularly chanting anti-asian obscenities.

I’m sure the police / media would soon take a different approach. As it is, it can be easily concluded that both the police force and the press in this country are run by those of a hun persuasion.

The ingrained acceptance from the wider public is pathetic IMO. But, if that’s what they’re spoon fed by MSM / papers, then they’ll respond appropriately. Ie the nothing to see here / just ignore it attitudes.

[Baader]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.

Exactly what has led to a significant problem in Scottish society.

[tamig]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.

And herein lies the problem…

[EdinMike]

And herein lies the problem…

Exactly! We shouldn’t be looking away anymore!

[Up-the-slope]

If they did:-

1st up..... Hibs, for Block 7 scrapping with stewards at Aberdeen.

2nd up.... Morton and Raith, for their fans scrapping with each other.

3rd.... Rangers? "It's just a banner, mate. Nobody's at risk."

I'm a fan of strict liability, but I think we need to think it through. Unintended consequences and all that.

CWG - but the massive difference is that Ranger staff facilitated the banner (the horlicks about they did not pay attention to what it was is no defence. What if they had brought pyro in with their kit for tifo - not our fault officer?)

1 & 2 were not facilitated by club staff - once you facilitate then I do think you have liability for what those individuals do

[CropleyWasGod]

CWG - but the massive difference is that Ranger staff facilitated the banner (the horlicks about they did not pay attention to what it was is no defence. What if they had brought pyro in with their kit for tifo - not our fault officer?)

1 & 2 were not facilitated by club staff - once you facilitate then I do think you have liability for what those individuals do

Not disagreeing with what you say, but it does demonstrate my point that the meaning of "strict liability" has to be clearly defined before it gets brought in. Otherwise, every new case would be the subject of tribunal wranglings that would take ages to sort out.

In UEFA's definition, all 3 situations would be held against the clubs.

[Daydreamer]

Its gotten to the stage now that I personally don't speak to Celtic and Rangers fans or supporters if they try to speak to me about football. They are a shower of bigoted ar@@@@@es and its not the minority either.

[ehf]

I really can’t understand why the tifo has caused the amount of grief it has?


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Yeah, it was only advocating the killing of Catholics, storm in teacup :rolleyes:

[TelaStella]

Yeah, it was only advocating the killing of Catholics, storm in teacup :rolleyes:

As a Catholic myself all I really read was a quote from Star Wars? But listen, f the huns and I’m not here to speak for them. I just don’t think on this particular and very rare occasion, their actions have merited the response it has.


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[HoboHarry]

All of this should please the (apparently) new American owners no end. I read they weren't at the game at the weekend, wonder why?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

As a Catholic myself all I really read was a quote from Star Wars? But listen, f the huns and I’m not here to speak for them. I just don’t think on this particular and very rare occasion, their actions have merited the response it has.

It starts off as "rare occasions" only to become the new normal because there's no push back against it. They're constantly testing the waters to see what they can get away with and if they know they can simply get away with this as well, it'll be another addition to their campaign of hatred.

I wish the absolute worst on them.

[matty_f]

As a Catholic myself all I really read was a quote from Star Wars? But listen, f the huns and I’m not here to speak for them. I just don’t think on this particular and very rare occasion, their actions have merited the response it has.


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Which Star Wars film has the quote “take aim on rebel ****”?

[3pm]

Which Star Wars film has the quote “take aim on rebel ****”?

I am sure there is reference to 'rebel ****' in Return of the Jedi but not the 'take aim' part.

[hibsbollah]

I am sure there is reference to 'rebel ****' in Return of the Jedi but not the 'take aim' part.

….which is clearly the point. Splitting hairs about ‘was it originally taken from a photo of Graeme Souness or did it pay ‘indirect homage to star wars episode 6’ is pure deflection.

[Hibrandenburg]

Both of these clubs have used bigotry as a finacial strategy since they came into existence. It's not the football that sees them gather support throughout Scotland and beyond, it's the licence to hate that attracts their supporters. People love to hate and Rangers and Celtic provide the platform.

[matty_f]

….which is clearly the point. Splitting hairs about ‘was it originally taken from a photo of Graeme Souness or did it pay ‘indirect homage to star wars episode 6’ is pure deflection.

Exactly. Citing a line from Star Wars that (as far as I can recall) isn’t said, is the weakest, most tenuous, and least credible explanation and for the Rangers fans that use it, they clearly want to be bigots without being labelled bigots.

Perhaps it might stand up to scrutiny if the image is a Stormtrooper or Darth Vader etc.

And anyway, what sort of a prick watches Star Wars and is on the Empire’s side?
They’re genuinely on the wrong side of everything.

[Up-the-slope]

Not disagreeing with what you say, but it does demonstrate my point that the meaning of "strict liability" has to be clearly defined before it gets brought in. Otherwise, every new case would be the subject of tribunal wranglings that would take ages to sort out.

In UEFA's definition, all 3 situations would be held against the clubs.

:aok: You are correct that the gap between UEFA & SFA/SPFL is massive on this and clarity is key. However I think a start here would be that when a club facilitates something and by definition has more control / direct involvement it also should follow it has more responsibility / liability. (for instance if you invite someone onto the pitch and give them the microphone / or as we have done at Hampden before by being let in ahead of final to set up display you cant then surely claim it 'wisnae me' if something inappropriate / dangerous happens)

I think this is also where our club needs to make sure our own house is in order when facilitating displays / arranging block tickets front and centre for specific groups at away games etc - as if that privilege is abused then its at best not a good look and at worst collusion if you don't take action

[Phil MaGlass]

:aok: You are correct that the gap between UEFA & SFA/SPFL is massive on this and clarity is key. However I think a start here would be that when a club facilitates something and by definition has more control / direct involvement it also should follow it has more responsibility / liability. (for instance if you invite someone onto the pitch and give them the microphone / or as we have done at Hampden before by being let in ahead of final to set up display you cant then surely claim it 'wisnae me' if something inappropriate / dangerous happens)

I think this is also where our club needs to make sure our own house is in order when facilitating displays / arranging block tickets front and centre for specific groups at away games etc - as if that privilege is abused then its at best not a good look and at worst collusion if you don't take action

Has this tifo been brought to UEFA,s attention?

[TrinityHFC]

Has this tifo been brought to UEFA,s attention?

They had a previous tifo of Bill the Butcher with surrender or you’ll die written under it. This was a European game and UEFA did nothing.

[Kato]

Anyone thinking it had the slightest thing to do with Star Wars hasn't been paying attention since 1690.

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[Jones28]

As a Catholic myself all I really read was a quote from Star Wars? But listen, f the huns and I’m not here to speak for them. I just don’t think on this particular and very rare occasion, their actions have merited the response it has.


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If it had been a quote from a film with a TIFO of Star Wars I'd maybe see your point, however it wasn't.

Dressing it up and turning a blind eye is doing no one any favours.

Also - the quote is from the bad guys in the movie! Who wants to be them?!

[Bostonhibby]

Anyone thinking it had the slightest thing to do with Star Wars hasn't been paying attention since 1690.

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkSure I heard Jabba the Hutt was a hun, maybe they just got their characters mixed up?

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[Thatdayinmay16]

Sure I heard Jabba the Hutt was a hun, maybe they just got their characters mixed up?

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Darth Vader had a red white and blue lightsabre did he not

[hibsbollah]

If it had been a quote from a film with a TIFO of Star Wars I'd maybe see your point, however it wasn't.

Dressing it up and turning a blind eye is doing no one any favours.

Also - the quote is from the bad guys in the movie! Who wants to be them?!

A minor character, an imperial general says ‘rebel ****’ briefly in episode 5. The more famous quote from episode 4 on ‘****’ is about being unable to find ‘a more wretched hive of **** and villainy’ than the cantina in Mos Eisley. See, this what happens when you allow deflection, you get deflected:dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Has this tifo been brought to UEFA,s attention?

It wasn't a UEFA game, so they wouldn't be interested.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Who cares? Best ignored. Two cheeks of the same arse.

Arguably , we are beyond the point in this country, where silence is complicity.

[gbhibby]

Sure I heard Jabba the Hutt was a hun, maybe they just got their characters mixed up?

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Much too good looking to be a hun.

[Bostonhibby]

Much too good looking to be a hun.Ok, maybe one of their sisters then?

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[Pretty Boy]

Which Star Wars film has the quote “take aim on rebel ****”?

I'm not saying the Star Wars reference isn't legit but............ it's also the lyrics Rangers fans use in their amended version of Derry's Walls ('When James and all his rebel **** came up to Bishop's Gate').

I'm a betting man and I know which one I'd put money on being the more likely inspiration, 4th of May or otherwise.

[Ship of Hope]

I think some of you on here fuelled by your dislike of the rangers (which I share) look for any problem to have a good moan about. At risk of people taking aim at me I really don’t have a problem with their tifo and find it quite funny and clever.

In line with their mantra nobody likes us and we don’t care, aligning themself with the empire seems pretty appropriate. Adding a cartoon image of souness combined with a line from star wars, on star wars day, (think it was when the rebel base was under attack at start of one of the movies) I thought was more creative than offensive.

To suggest they were suggesting everyone actually shoot the opposition fans is maybe a bit far fetched. Taking aim could equally be applied to a shot at goal for example.

I don’t think this tifo is in the same league as some of the songs that are sung by both sides of the old firm and protesting too much about stuff like this just muddies the waters imo.

[gbhibby]

I think some of you on here fuelled by your dislike of the rangers (which I share) look for any problem to have a good moan about. At risk of people taking aim at me I really don’t have a problem with their tifo and find it quite funny and clever.

In line with their mantra nobody likes us and we don’t care, aligning themself with the empire seems pretty appropriate. Adding a cartoon image of souness combined with a line from star wars, on star wars day, (think it was when the rebel base was under attack at start of one of the movies) I thought was more creative than offensive.

To suggest they were suggesting everyone actually shoot the opposition fans is maybe a bit far fetched. Taking aim could equally be applied to a shot at goal for example.

I don’t think this tifo is in the same league as some of the songs that are sung by both sides of the old firm and protesting too much about stuff like this just muddies the waters imo.
They would have been annoyed at the Celtic fans ripping the p*** singing Simply the Best.

[Bristolhibby]

Exactly. Citing a line from Star Wars that (as far as I can recall) isn’t said, is the weakest, most tenuous, and least credible explanation and for the Rangers fans that use it, they clearly want to be bigots without being labelled bigots.

Perhaps it might stand up to scrutiny if the image is a Stormtrooper or Darth Vader etc.

And anyway, what sort of a prick watches Star Wars and is on the Empire’s side?
They’re genuinely on the wrong side of everything.

Trump and his Sith red lightsaber.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I think some of you on here fuelled by your dislike of the rangers (which I share) look for any problem to have a good moan about. At risk of people taking aim at me I really don’t have a problem with their tifo and find it quite funny and clever.

In line with their mantra nobody likes us and we don’t care, aligning themself with the empire seems pretty appropriate. Adding a cartoon image of souness combined with a line from star wars, on star wars day, (think it was when the rebel base was under attack at start of one of the movies) I thought was more creative than offensive.

To suggest they were suggesting everyone actually shoot the opposition fans is maybe a bit far fetched. Taking aim could equally be applied to a shot at goal for example.

I don’t think this tifo is in the same league as some of the songs that are sung by both sides of the old firm and protesting too much about stuff like this just muddies the waters imo.

Taking aim, fine. But the TIFO had a shotgun. Not a laser blaster, but a shotgun.

J

[DH1875]

He calls Han Solo rebel ****. Like it or lump it it's an iconic line. You can buy Star Wars clothes and merchandise with the phrase on it. There is a Star Wars Trading store and fans forum called it. There is a Star Wars spin off/B movie called it. Some Star Wars fans embrace it along as being called Jedi **** which is a line used in Revenge of the Sith.

[DH1875]

What is the story behind the Souness photo with the shotgun?

[Hibernian Verse]

He calls Han Solo rebel ****. Like it or lump it it's an iconic line. You can buy Star Wars clothes and merchandise with the phrase on it. There is a Star Wars Trading store and fans forum called it. There is a Star Wars spin off/B movie called it. Some Star Wars fans embrace it along as being called Jedi **** which is a line used in Revenge of the Sith.

I must have missed Souness starring

[Jones28]

He calls Han Solo rebel ****. Like it or lump it it's an iconic line. You can buy Star Wars clothes and merchandise with the phrase on it. There is a Star Wars Trading store and fans forum called it. There is a Star Wars spin off/B movie called it. Some Star Wars fans embrace it along as being called Jedi **** which is a line used in Revenge of the Sith.

It's an iconic line in the context of a film franchise, not in football, not with a TIFO that doesn't get the quote right and not in the context of a shotgun being aimed at opposing fans.

[Jones28]

I think some of you on here fuelled by your dislike of the rangers (which I share) look for any problem to have a good moan about. At risk of people taking aim at me I really don’t have a problem with their tifo and find it quite funny and clever.

In line with their mantra nobody likes us and we don’t care, aligning themself with the empire seems pretty appropriate. Adding a cartoon image of souness combined with a line from star wars, on star wars day, (think it was when the rebel base was under attack at start of one of the movies) I thought was more creative than offensive.

To suggest they were suggesting everyone actually shoot the opposition fans is maybe a bit far fetched. Taking aim could equally be applied to a shot at goal for example.

I don’t think this tifo is in the same league as some of the songs that are sung by both sides of the old firm and protesting too much about stuff like this just muddies the waters imo.

Defending it muddies the waters more. Then it brings lines of acceptability that are re-drawn with every incident.

A TIFO with someone aiming a shotgun = a shot a goal? FFS come on, that's some spin.

[Smartie]

He calls Han Solo rebel ****. Like it or lump it it's an iconic line. You can buy Star Wars clothes and merchandise with the phrase on it. There is a Star Wars Trading store and fans forum called it. There is a Star Wars spin off/B movie called it. Some Star Wars fans embrace it along as being called Jedi **** which is a line used in Revenge of the Sith.

Is it not also the sort of insult that the Celtic fans would / could take as a badge of honour, a compliment?

Pretty sure I’ve been called that, amongst all sorts of other names, from hun / unionist mates. First word - factually true. Second word - I’ve obviously managed to successfully get under their skin.

[TelaStella]

Taking aim, fine. But the TIFO had a shotgun. Not a laser blaster, but a shotgun.

J

Would a laser blaster have been more appropriate? Neither are real btw…


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[Pretty Boy]

Is it not also the sort of insult that the Celtic fans would / could take as a badge of honour, a compliment?

Pretty sure I’ve been called that, amongst all sorts of other names, from hun / unionist mates. First word - factually true. Second word - I’ve obviously managed to successfully get under their skin.

Is it not one of those things that is maybe ok only when they say it though?

Most of my mates are Hibs and Celtic fans and we regularly use the word 'fenian' as a joke. That doesn't make it ok for someone else to call me a 'fenian *******' though. A bit like rappers and a certain word beginning with N.

[Kato]

Is it not one of those things that is maybe ok only when they say it though?

Most of my mates are Hibs and Celtic fans and we regularly use the word 'fenian' as a joke. That doesn't make it ok for someone else to call me a 'fenian *******' though. A bit like rappers and a certain word beginning with N.

Fenian isn't an insult.

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[hibee_nation]

If they really wanted to go full tonto I'm sure they could have changed Graeme Souness to Michael Stone.

[Smartie]

Is it not one of those things that is maybe ok only when they say it though?

Most of my mates are Hibs and Celtic fans and we regularly use the word 'fenian' as a joke. That doesn't make it ok for someone else to call me a 'fenian *******' though. A bit like rappers and a certain word beginning with N.

Sure.

Context is everything.

There are things I’d say, in private, amongst friends, that I wouldn’t be throwing about in public or in a football stadium. And I wouldn’t want to offend folk second hand who aren’t part of the sort of relationship I have with those mates.

I have one Celtic-minded mate who I probably speak to about this sort of thing more than anyone and he’s not remotely offended by the tifo. I think he’s choosing not to be though, as he’d rather continue to condone the hanging of certain effigies at Celtic park, and the like.

[Pretty Boy]

Fenian isn't an insult.

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In itself, no. When you follow it up with any of a whole selection of words that would be starred out on here but begin with a B, a C or an S then the meaning changes somewhat. That's generally the manner in which bigots use it; same as calling someone 'rebel ****' is a bit different from someone self describing as a rebel.

It's a bit like the tedious argument that sometimes gets trotted out that 'paki' isn't an insult because it's 'just the same as calling someone a Scot'. Possibly a valid argument if it wasn't for the context in which the word is most often used (and often as a generic catch all for any brown person rather than specifically someone from Pakistan).

[hibee_nation]

In itself, no. When you follow it up with any of a whole selection of words that would be starred out on here but begin with a B, a C or an S then the meaning changes somewhat. That's generally the manner in which bigots use it; same as calling someone 'rebel ****' is a bit different from someone self describing as a rebel.

It's a bit like the tedious argument that sometimes gets trotted out that 'paki' isn't an insult because it's 'just the same as calling someone a Scot'. Possibly a valid argument if it wasn't for the context in which the word is most often used (and often as a generic catch all for any brown person rather than specifically someone from Pakistan).

To be fair to Rangers fans they were very even handed in their dislikes, they did use to sing they'd rather be pakis than tims :agree:

[DH1875]

Sure.

Context is everything.

There are things I’d say, in private, amongst friends, that I wouldn’t be throwing about in public or in a football stadium. And I wouldn’t want to offend folk second hand who aren’t part of the sort of relationship I have with those mates.

I have one Celtic-minded mate who I probably speak to about this sort of thing more than anyone and he’s not remotely offended by the tifo. I think he’s choosing not to be though, as he’d rather continue to condone the hanging of certain effigies at Celtic park, and the like.

I've shared this before, my family is very mixed. My little brother in his 30s is a rangers fan. He supports them because his dad supports them nothing else. Doesn't go for any of the political/religious nonsense and is actually pro independence for Scotland. We go to the Scotland games together which is great but I couldn't for the life of me watch a Hibs v rangers game with him. He completely changes and I came close to knocking him out last time we did it so he doesn't even ask now.
My mum's family are all Celtic season ticket holders and one of my uncles runs one of the biggest celtic supporters clubs in Scotland. Two of my cousins are active green brigade members and I know a few other gb members. I have been to celtic park for big European games and have been to a few old firm games with them. Can say hands down that when it comes to religion, politics and antisocial behaviour at the football I've never met such a bunch of bigoted A holes. Worse than any rangers fan I know including my brother's dad who is a racist bigoted anchor that I refuse to have anything to do with. Love my uncles though so what can you do.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Sure I heard Jabba the Hutt was a hun, maybe they just got their characters mixed up?

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You are thinking about Jim Traynor

[Jones28]

You are thinking about Jim Traynor

That's very harsh.


Poor Jabba, being likened to that.

[Bostonhibby]

You are thinking about Jim Traynor[emoji23]
We have a winner

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[Ship of Hope]

Defending it muddies the waters more. Then it brings lines of acceptability that are re-drawn with every incident.

A TIFO with someone aiming a shotgun = a shot a goal? FFS come on, that's some spin.

OMG I didn’t realise celtic fans were actually attacked by huns brandishing shotguns at the game .. or is that just some spin suggesting a cartoon character on a tifo would result in that. I did see several shots at goal though during the game. Some lines do need redrawn but thankfully not always in the direction you would like to see them go.

I just think it would be better focussing on real issues at the core of the problem as opposed to getting all worked up over a cartoon tifo directed at the support of another club.

[DH1875]

Asked this before but still no clue. What is the story behind Souness and the shotgun? I know it's from 1982 and something to do with the world cup apparently but not sure what.

[WestStandWillie]

Rangers and Celtic whole existence is formed on religious bigotry. I'm starting to think Sky Sports and the various other media outlets get off on it because it generates debate.

Two horrible clubs who should just be told to GTF. Our league would be a lot better without them...and for the "our league would become a back water" brigade; folk like the Gordons, Bill Foley or even that wee grifter Tony Bloom didn't get involved in Scottish football for the Old Firm.

[JeMeSouviens]

Asked this before but still no clue. What is the story behind Souness and the shotgun? I know it's from 1982 and something to do with the world cup apparently but not sure what.

It's part of a set of photos taken with/of the Scotland squad at the world cup. Presumably there was a shooting range at the hotel they stayed at?

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/search/2/image?phrase=paul%20popper%20scotland%20spain%2019 82&sort=best&license=rf%2Crm

[Se7enUp]

it's not just them though, Celtic are abhorrent at times as well.

They thrive off attention, as the previous poster mentioned, it's best ignored.

It's not best ignored. It's best if punitive a tiny is taken against them.

[JimBHibees]

….which is clearly the point. Splitting hairs about ‘was it originally taken from a photo of Graeme Souness or did it pay ‘indirect homage to star wars episode 6’ is pure deflection.

Yep heard Michael Stewart talking about it and he said something like the tifo was annoying but the main thing was the bottle being thrown on. Tried to underplay what the tifo implied imo

[Victor]

I'm not saying the Star Wars reference isn't legit but............ it's also the lyrics Rangers fans use in their amended version of Derry's Walls ('When James and all his rebel **** came up to Bishop's Gate').

I'm a betting man and I know which one I'd put money on being the more likely inspiration, 4th of May or otherwise.

I would have thought the Protestant defenders were the ‘rebels’ considering that their opponent was ‘King’ James the legitimate heir to the throne. The ‘rebels’ were the ones rebelling against his rule. Maybe they were pointing the shotgun at themselves in an act of contrition for overthrowing the monarch.

[Thatdayinmay16]

It's not best ignored. It's best if punitive a tiny is taken against them.

I'd rather just ignore both of them and forget their existence. It's easier than wasting time talking about it when we all know the square root of hee-haw will happen to them.

[Jones28]

OMG I didn’t realise celtic fans were actually attacked by huns brandishing shotguns at the game .. or is that just some spin suggesting a cartoon character on a tifo would result in that. I did see several shots at goal though during the game. Some lines do need redrawn but thankfully not always in the direction you would like to see them go.

I just think it would be better focussing on real issues at the core of the problem as opposed to getting all worked up over a cartoon tifo directed at the support of another club.

The real issue is banners like this, hang Neil Lennon, hanging effigies of Rangers fans at Celtic park, bullets in the post. All coming from the steaming cesspit that is sectarianism.

These two clubs need slapped down by the authorities and the blight of sectarianism stamped out. A good place to start would be banners such as this and displays of hatred like it banned, with stand closures and massive fines dished out.