Dermot Gallagher

[expresso]

Called Nicky Cadden v Ross Co a definite penalty but Tavernier handball at weekend definitely not a penalty 🙄

[tamig]

Called Nicky Cadden v Ross Co a definite penalty but Tavernier handball at weekend definitely not a penalty 🙄

If it hit Tavernier’s body before hitting his arm it correctly wasn’t a penalty. I don’t think Cadden’s hit another part of his body first. So a penalty. Anyway, there’s a whole thread already about this.

[LaMotta]

Called Nicky Cadden v Ross Co a definite penalty but Tavernier handball at weekend definitely not a penalty ��

He was right though (for once!). Two different incidents for a number of reasons.

[Kato]

If it hit Tavernier’s body before hitting his arm it correctly wasn’t a penalty. I don’t think Cadden’s hit another part of his body first. So a penalty. Anyway, there’s a whole thread already about this.If it his body - I agree. Only seeing it from one angle its not definate.

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[Donegal Hibby]

Called Nicky Cadden v Ross Co a definite penalty but Tavernier handball at weekend definitely not a penalty 🙄

Still think Tavernier could have moved his arm away but instead he intentionally handled the ball even though according to the rules his arm was in a natural position … handball rule is just daft and causes to many problems IMO .

[Centre Hawf]

Still think Tavernier could have moved his arm away but instead he intentionally handled the ball even though according to the rules his arm was in a natural position … handball rule is just daft and causes to many problems IMO .

I agree. Even watching Champions League tonight and there’s a difference interpretation of the rule to the Premier League. Can’t keep track of what is and isn’t a handball anymore. I’d almost prefer to go to a black and white scenario of anything sleeve down is a handball.

[Donegal Hibby]

I agree. Even watching Champions League tonight and there’s a difference interpretation of the rule to the Premier League. Can’t keep track of what is and isn’t a handball anymore. I’d almost prefer to go to a black and white scenario of anything sleeve down is a handball.

I think this rule spoils games in we are now seeing defenders keeping their hands behind their backs which is totally unnatural in fear the ball is going to hit their arm or hand..

The poster who started the thread refers to McDermott saying Cadden’s handball was a penalty yet Tavernier’s wasn’t . My gripe with this is the ball comes at Cadden at more space than it did at Tavernier . It could be said that Cadden’s arm is in an unnatural position but does he intentionally handle it ? I don’t think he does …

Tavernier i think could have got his arm out of the way due to the ball not coming at him as quickly as it did Cadden but because his arms in a more natural position it’s deemed not a penalty … IMO that doesn’t mean he didn’t deliberately handle the ball because I think he did ….

Too many grey areas with the handball rule now .

[Onion]

I take a different view. IMO Tavernier moves his hand towards the ball or at a minimum leaves his hand in a position as insurance to make sure the ball doesn't go by him. Fact it comes off his stomach first should be irrelevant. It's a blatant hand ball and a penalty.

[gbhibby]

I agree. Even watching Champions League tonight and there’s a difference interpretation of the rule to the Premier League. Can’t keep track of what is and isn’t a handball anymore. I’d almost prefer to go to a black and white scenario of anything sleeve down is a handball.
Agree the handball rule should he the same all over the world. Even when it hits the body a player can intentionally move the arm to stop the ball breaking to an opposition player, have done it myself when playing football. You can make your frame bigger to the front and back of your body as well. My personal opinion that the rule would be simpler if the player makes his frame bigger or his hands or arms are in an unnatural position accross the front or back of the body and irrespective of whether it hits the players body or deflects of another player before it hits the arm/hand a penalty/ foul is awarded.

[Donegal Hibby]

I take a different view. IMO Tavernier moves his hand towards the ball or at a minimum leaves his hand in a position as insurance to make sure the ball doesn't go by him. Fact it comes off his stomach first should be irrelevant. It's a blatant hand ball and a penalty.

100% agree with this . On first viewing I was screaming for a penalty and I haven’t changed my opinion after seeing it numerous times, wither the ball hit his body or not is irrelevant because I’m convinced he knew what he was doing in trying to control it … deliberate hand ball 👍

[LaMotta]

100% agree with this . On first viewing I was screaming for a penalty and I haven’t changed my opinion after seeing it numerous times, wither the ball hit his body or not is irrelevant because I’m convinced he knew what he was doing in trying to control it … deliberate hand ball 👍

There isn't even conclusive proof it hit his hand.

[LaMotta]

I take a different view. IMO Tavernier moves his hand towards the ball or at a minimum leaves his hand in a position as insurance to make sure the ball doesn't go by him. Fact it comes off his stomach first should be irrelevant. It's a blatant hand ball and a penalty.

Its not irrelevant though according to the laws of the game - so its quite clearly not a penalty.

[wookie70]

There isn't even conclusive proof it hit his hand. I agree from the highlights I have seen. I thought it was a stonewaller watching on a stick live but with a better view on the highlights I couldn't determine what it hit. There must be a better angle of that somewhere but who cares as we won pretty comfortably anyway

[LaMotta]

I agree from the highlights I have seen. I thought it was a stonewaller watching on a stick live but with a better view on the highlights I couldn't determine what it hit. There must be a better angle of that somewhere but who cares as we won pretty comfortably anyway

:agree::agree::agree:

[Donegal Hibby]

There isn't even conclusive proof it hit his hand.

There’s even less proof that it’s hit his body too though . When watching it the commentator states it’s no penalty because his arm is in a natural doesn’t mean he’s not deliberately tried to . I’ve watched it as I said numerous times and I’m still think he could have moved his arm away but instead intentionally handled it around were his white wrist band is (2:15 in ) …

https://youtu.be/k6K43XGI_dM?si=BAmJgpktoMVZGaVB

Each to their own opinion mate but mine is I think that is just as much , maybe more a penalty than the one we lost to Ross County .

[LaMotta]

There’s even less proof that it’s hit his body too though . When watching it the commentator states it’s no penalty because his arm is in a natural doesn’t mean he’s not deliberately tried to . I’ve watched it as I said numerous times and I’m still think he could have moved his arm away but instead intentionally handled it around were his white wrist band is (2:15 in ) …

I don't think you are watching it correctly mate TBH.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't think you are watching it correctly mate TBH.

Don’t know about that as I’ve watched it numerous times and even watching it at the time my first thoughts was it was a deliberate handball , certainly more intent than this one at the start ….

https://youtu.be/cWws6YL_uaI?si=0YNsDUQ6aYDabQUI

I think you can handle the ball with your arm in an unnatural position and not mean it while at the same time have your arm in a natural position and deliberately handle the ball . As I said I think the current rule on handball is daft and causes to many problems.

[HarpOnHibee]

I agree from the highlights I have seen. I thought it was a stonewaller watching on a stick live but with a better view on the highlights I couldn't determine what it hit. There must be a better angle of that somewhere but who cares as we won pretty comfortably anyway

Of course there's a better angle of it. There was presumably more than one camera at the game. But they're choosing not to show any of the other angles.

[SickBoy32]

I take a different view. IMO Tavernier moves his hand towards the ball or at a minimum leaves his hand in a position as insurance to make sure the ball doesn't go by him. Fact it comes off his stomach first should be irrelevant. It's a blatant hand ball and a penalty.

Absolutely spot on.

Handball and penalty is the only real option, he quite clearly prevents the ball getting through to the attacker behind - by using his arm

Dermot Gallagher is a total slaver, flip flops between viewpoints on a weekly basis.

[SickBoy32]

There isn't even conclusive proof it hit his hand.

😂😂😂 wtf

Proof gaslighting works folks

[hibsbollah]

Really boring staring at screens and arguing about millimetres, slightest touches, where arbitrary lines are drawn. Everyone in the sport has lost all sense of what the handball rule is actually designed to do; ie-stop flagrant cheating.

So the ideal scenario is get rid of penalties for accidental handball completely. So when the officials have confidence that the act was deliberate and the offending team gained an advantage, thats the only time its a pen. If the act was judged to be accidental and an advantage was gained because of it, indirect free kick inside the box. Everything else, play on.

[Humo]

Really boring staring at screens and arguing about millimetres, slightest touches, where arbitrary lines are drawn. Everyone in the sport has lost all sense of what the handball rule is actually designed to do; ie-stop flagrant cheating.

So the ideal scenario is get rid of penalties for accidental handball completely. So when the officials have confidence that the act was deliberate and the offending team gained an advantage, thats the only time its a pen. If the act was judged to be accidental and an advantage was gained because of it, indirect free kick inside the box. Everything else, play on.

That’s too much like common sense. It’ll never catch on!


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[BILLYHIBS]

Going back to a previous thread I noticed that he said the Porteous tackle on Aribo was a red card

https://www.skysports.com/football/video/36620/12425881/ref-watch-porteous-tackle-a-red-card

[Speedy]

Its not irrelevant though according to the laws of the game - so its quite clearly not a penalty.

What is the actual law on this?

As I alided to on the other thread. I think it should have been a penalty (based on my interpretation of what the rules should be) but based on the written rules I can see why it wasn't given. I didn't see anything about hitting the body or any wording that would relate to that though.

And as an aside. It is laughable to say there is no conclusive proof that it hit his hand. It hits his stomach then arm and heads in a different direction. You need to book an appointment with an optician if you can't see that.

[Hibernian Verse]

Don’t know about that as I’ve watched it numerous times and even watching it at the time my first thoughts was it was a deliberate handball , certainly more intent than this one at the start ….

https://youtu.be/cWws6YL_uaI?si=0YNsDUQ6aYDabQUI

I think you can handle the ball with your arm in an unnatural position and not mean it while at the same time have your arm in a natural position and deliberately handle the ball . As I said I think the current rule on handball is daft and causes to many problems.

Tavernier's mate misses the ball and he has a second to react. He tries to pull his arm away, how can you say it's deliberate handball? I'm not sure what your watching.

We won and the VAR probably got it right - on to Sunday.

[Donegal Hibby]

Tavernier's mate misses the ball and he has a second to react. He tries to pull his arm away, how can you say it's deliberate handball? I'm not sure what your watching.

We won and the VAR probably got it right - on to Sunday.

He only tries to pull his arm away after handling it , you think he has less time to react than the one given against Cadden ?

[LaMotta]

������ wtf

Proof gaslighting works folks


What is the actual law on this?

As I alided to on the other thread. I think it should have been a penalty (based on my interpretation of what the rules should be) but based on the written rules I can see why it wasn't given. I didn't see anything about hitting the body or any wording that would relate to that though.

And as an aside. It is laughable to say there is no conclusive proof that it hit his hand. It hits his stomach then arm and heads in a different direction. You need to book an appointment with an optician if you can't see that.

It's worrying that you have both watched that footage from the only angle available and think that is conclusive proof of handball. Its possible he might handle it, but its not certain.

How can you not understand that the camera can be decieving from certain angles?!

Do you think this is conclusive proof of a woman touching the Leaning Tower of Pisa? https://youtu.be/qCPnWjuNHmw?si=jJw-MqTbQru1Jsm9

Here is an example of an incident can look like a handball from one video angle, but actually when you get a better angle then it turns out it wasnt a handball. https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1738348/Man-City-RB-Leipzig-penalty-shout-Champions-League-news

It's absolutely possible that could be the case on Saturday.

[SickBoy32]

It's worrying that you have both watched that footage from the only angle available and think that is conclusive proof of handball. Its possible he might handle it, but its not certain.

How can you not understand that the camera can be decieving from certain angles?!

Do you think this is conclusive proof of a woman touching the Leaning Tower of Pisa? https://youtu.be/qCPnWjuNHmw?si=jJw-MqTbQru1Jsm9

Conclusive proof! 😂

The ball clearly hits his arm, I’m no interested in even debating that.

What I find really bizarre is this (recent) idea that we now need ‘conclusive proof’ - before decisions can be made. See this handball and the ball being out of play prior to the Celtic ‘goal’ at ER.

It’s a game of football, no a murder trial.

[Kato]

It's worrying that you have both watched that footage from the only angle available and think that is conclusive proof of handball. Its possible he might handle it, but its not certain.

How can you not understand that the camera can be decieving from certain angles?!

Do you think this is conclusive proof of a woman touching the Leaning Tower of Pisa? https://youtu.be/qCPnWjuNHmw?si=jJw-MqTbQru1Jsm9

Here is an example of an incident can look like a handball from one video angle, but actually when you get a better angle then it turns out it wasnt a handball. https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1738348/Man-City-RB-Leipzig-penalty-shout-Champions-League-news

It's absolutely possible that could be the case on Saturday.Perspective can also make it look like it hit his body, when maybe it didn't.

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[Hibernian Verse]

He only tries to pull his arm away after handling it , you think he has less time to react than the one given against Cadden ?

No I think they are both completely irrelevant to each other as just because they got Cadden's wrong doesn't mean we're due them to get this one wrong as well.

He doesn't have time to think about it. If you've ever played as much as a game as fives you will know how quickly a ball moves and if your teammate fresh airs it a yard or two in front of you there isn't much time to react.

There's having green tinted glasses and then there's seeing what you want to see.

In my humble opinion.

[LaMotta]

Conclusive proof! 😂

The ball clearly hits his arm, I’m no interested in even debating that.

What I find really bizarre is this (recent) idea that we now need ‘conclusive proof’ - before decisions can be made. See this handball and the ball being out of play prior to the Celtic ‘goal’ at ER.

It’s a game of football, no a murder trial.

I really dont understand how you can be so sure of yourself The Man City Leipzig "handball" incident proves you shouldnt be.

https://x.com/footballontnt/status/1628535042203963392?t=A-fyLla3ZIMBBqNXlyN59A&s=19

[tamig]

This is like deja vu from another thread 🤔

[LaMotta]

Perspective can also make it look like it hit his body, when maybe it didn't.

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Absolutely agree mate! I do think from the footage it looks likely that it hits his body and then possibly his arm. Anyone who is 100% certain though as to what happens there from just one distorted camera angle view worries me.

Its why ive said all along that the lack of camera angles in our poundshop VAR is the main issue here.

[LaMotta]

This is like deja vu from another thread 🤔

It's really boring :greengrin

[Kato]

Absolutely agree mate! I do think from the footage it looks likely that it hits his body and then possibly his arm. Anyone who is 100% certain though as to what happens there from just one distorted camera angle view worries me.

Its why ive said all along that the lack of camera angles in our poundshop VAR is the main issue here.VAR maybe had a better angle than was shown on telly?

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[Speedy]

Absolutely agree mate! I do think from the footage it looks likely that it hits his body and then possibly his arm. Anyone who is 100% certain though as to what happens there from just one distorted camera angle view worries me.

Its why ive said all along that the lack of camera angles in our poundshop VAR is the main issue here.

https://youtu.be/k6K43XGI_dM?si=O1twqh2WquUsWGU4

They show 3 different clips of it here. The 3rd one is the one where I can see clearly that it hit his arm.

[MKHIBEE]

He only tries to pull his arm away after handling it , you think he has less time to react than the one given against Cadden ?

Which leads one to think his arm was in a natural position when the ball hit it, ergo, no penalty.

[LaMotta]

https://youtu.be/k6K43XGI_dM?si=O1twqh2WquUsWGU4

They show 3 different clips of it here. The 3rd one is the one where I can see clearly that it hit his arm.

Ive seen all those angles. The second clip it looks like it just hits his midriff. The 3rd clip it looks like it might come off his midriff on to his arm. I still can't be sure either way.

You are saying it clearly hits off his arm in the third clip, just like every pundit said the RB Leipzig incident was a clear handball from a similar angle. Tuns out it wasn't though after they got a much better angle. Its a shame there doesn't appear to be one here.

[Donegal Hibby]

Which leads one to think his arm was in a natural position when the ball hit it, ergo, no penalty.

That’s what the commentator said at the time why it wasn’t given but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t intentionally handled it though.. in Caddens case there’s no way he deliberately handles the ball but it’s given for his arm being in a unnatural position .. are we now saying it’s ok to handle the ball on purpose if your arm is in a natural position? …

Arm in natural position?…

https://youtu.be/fLUxMRYJAso?si=S2fVqEzqNSw_rLtW

[Centre Hawf]

That’s what the commentator said at the time why it wasn’t given but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t intentionally handled it though.. in Caddens case there’s no way he deliberately handles the ball but it’s given for his arm being in a unnatural position .. are we now saying it’s ok to handle the ball on purpose if your arm is in a natural position? .

Hard to prove intent though when it's not a flat out punching of the ball on the line or caressing it into your path.

[NAE NOOKIE]

What is daft is looking at a handball from 3 different angles ... still pictures ... ultra slow motion. And yet, as in the case of the Cadden incident, failing to take into account that in the end all him handling the ball affected was stopping it going out of play for a Hibs bye kick.

If you are going to punish a player / team for a hand ball using VAR then isn't it fair to also look at the incident as a whole. If that sounds daft, then would it also not be the case that if a goal was VAR checked for a possible hand ball in the build up and it turns out the hand it hit belonged to a defender the goal would still be given ... they wouldn't chalk off the goal and award a free kick or penalty instead.

Same when the keeper brings down a forward. If that forward has kicked the ball past the keeper before being brought down and it's absolutely obvious he has no chance of catching up with it before it runs out of play, it doesn't matter a rats arse if the keeper ends up bringing him down or not ... he isn't scoring anyway. Seen that happen a ton of times.

[Donegal Hibby]

Hard to prove intent though when it's not a flat out punching of the ball on the line or caressing it into your path.

I think the intent is there though because IMO Tavernier has enough time to move his arm out of the way but chooses not too . How many times have we seen defenders defending with both arms behind their backs? .

You could say the same about Cadden’s one in it’s hard to prove there’s actually intent to handle the ball either . Another point is there’s nothing to be gained by Cadden deliberately handling it (think he nearly put it into his own net by it happening if I remember correctly) ..

The Tavernier one when the other Sevco player misses it I think Tavernier knows it’s a dangerous situation . I think he’s been clever and knows exactly what he’s doing….

McDermott is saying one is and one’s not and the only difference is he is ruling one not a penalty due to the arm being in a more natural position but that doesn’t mean it has less intent than the other one …

As I said I really think the handball rule is completely bonkers now .

[Centre Hawf]

I think the intent is there though because IMO Tavernier has enough time to move his arm out of the way but chooses not too . How many times have we seen defenders defending with both arms behind their backs? .

You could say the same about Cadden’s one in it’s hard to prove there’s actually intent to handle the ball either . Another point is there’s nothing to be gained by Cadden deliberately handling it (think he nearly put it into his own net by it happening if I remember correctly) ..

The Tavernier one when the other Sevco player misses it I think Tavernier knows it’s a dangerous situation . I think he’s been clever and knows exactly what he’s doing….

McDermott is saying one is and one’s not and the only difference is he is ruling one not a penalty due to the arm being in a more natural position but that doesn’t mean it has less intent than the other one …

As I said I really think the handball rule is completely bonkers now .

I agree the handball rule is bonkers. It's all over the shop for me.

I think you're right in that he doesn't exactly move his arm out the way, but again it's hard to prove and we're both saying what we think. We also have green tinted specs, if you went around non bias folk you'd probably find just as many folk saying it's not deliberate.

I also don't really think it's the same as Nicky Caddens as Cadden has his arm out and away from his body the entire time, arguably Taverniers issue is that his arm is in close to his body and as he moves it away it looks worse.

I will say I think it should have been a penalty, but the biggest issue is just interpretation. If the ref gives it I don't think VAR overturn it.

[Trinity Hibee]

What is daft is looking at a handball from 3 different angles ... still pictures ... ultra slow motion. And yet, as in the case of the Cadden incident, failing to take into account that in the end all him handling the ball affected was stopping it going out of play for a Hibs bye kick.

If you are going to punish a player / team for a hand ball using VAR then isn't it fair to also look at the incident as a whole. If that sounds daft, then would it also not be the case that if a goal was VAR checked for a possible hand ball in the build up and it turns out the hand it hit belonged to a defender the goal would still be given ... they wouldn't chalk off the goal and award a free kick or penalty instead.

Same when the keeper brings down a forward. If that forward has kicked the ball past the keeper before being brought down and it's absolutely obvious he has no chance of catching up with it before it runs out of play, it doesn't matter a rats arse if the keeper ends up bringing him down or not ... he isn't scoring anyway. Seen that happen a ton of times.

Very good points to be fair. Would a player try to handball it if it’s going out for a bye kick for his team? Our refs will never adopt it in practice though anyway

[expresso]

It's really boring :greengrin

Yet you’ve posted 10 times on the thread.

[blackpoolhibs]

I cant believe some folk on here, the default position of every Hibs fan should be automatically a penalty for Hibs, whether it hit his arm or his c***. :rolleyes:

[LaMotta]

Yet you’ve posted 10 times on the thread.

Did you miss the smiley? What's your point? :hilarious

[gbhibby]

This season has shown up the poor quality of our poundshop VAR. From the picture of the lines being drawn for our second goal there is no way to tell in which half of the pitch Boyler is in when the ball is played. Do they not have a camera on the centre line. The SPFL/SFA need to upgrade the VAR with more cameras.

[BILLYHIBS]

This season has shown up the poor quality of our poundshop VAR. From the picture of the lines being drawn for our second goal there is no way to tell in which half of the pitch Boyler is in when the ball is played. Do they not have a camera on the centre line. The SPFL/SFA need to upgrade the VAR with more cameras.

Onside

Thin blue line showing Boyle’s upper torso on in relation to Sterling’s foot

https://i.ibb.co/ymJbR0nn/IMG-3414.png (https://ibb.co/MyL3hnDD)

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Dermott who?

[HoboHarry]

Dermott who?
Exactly. The last time he refereed a Premier League game was the same year as we were beating Kilmarnock in a cup final. Basically Lewis Stevenson's senior career ago.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Exactly. The last time he refereed a Premier League game was the same year as we were beating Kilmarnock in a cup final. Basically Lewis Stevenson's senior career ago.
Geniunely thought - it’s that Dundee Utd fella.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Is it not bad enough suffering these muppets pre-retirement without seeing them turn up as pundits and the effin Willie Collum show?

Get the decisions made and communicated via mic’d up refs like rugby and spare us the ex refs job creation scheme. And spare the opine drawing / multiple angle slowmo replay forward and back. Unless someone can explain what it does to add to the spectacle? Nothing. It’s not American football don’t make it so. Even then onfield flags and decision are explained - live.