Scottish Cup - why it matters

[Up-the-slope]

I'm sure as much as our unbelievable run has surprised & delighted, i'm not the only who is getting angsty that while 3rd is in our own hands, Euro group stage football isn't.

Celtic being so poor and getting beat of St Johnstone yesterday and having them in Semi, and Dons return to form means its not the usual foregone conclusion that they will win the SC which we need - assuming we do our job - to get the full return for what would be an fantastic season.

[He's here!]

Celtic are not 'so poor'. On their day they're better than the rest by a mile. When a team has had the title wrapped up for so long their levels are inevitably going to drop occasionally. They'll win the cup no problem tho as their only focus now is completing the treble.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Celtic are not 'so poor'. On their day they're better than the rest by a mile. When a team has had the title wrapped up for so long their levels are inevitably going to drop occasionally. They'll win the cup no problem tho as their only focus now is completing the treble.

It's not always so easy to suddenly raise your game when you've been mentally on the beach for weeks...

I think Celtic will ultimately win it but I have to say yesterday's performance, and a few other performances of theirs lately, has made me a bit uneasy.

[Since90+2]

They'll beat St Johnstone in the semi, and I would think final day of the season with a treble on the line they'll be bang up for the final.

No guarantees in football obviously but you'd imagine they are highly likely to win the cup.

[Hibs Go Bragh]

If someone else stops a treble chasing Celtic to win the cup then you just need to say fair play to them! Nothing we can do about it.

My only gripe about the cup is that we're no longer involved. This team deserves a chance at Hampden and for once I would have been confident.

As good as this season has turned out to be, lady luck has still had it in for us sending us to Parkhead twice in the cups.

[lugz]

I'd be massively surprised if celtic don't win the cup. How does European football work if they do? At what stage does each place enter which competition?

[SHODAN]

The winner of the Scottish Cup shouldn't get the best non-CL spot; they should have the worst one.

It's absurd that this system is in place.

[JohnM1875]

I'd be massively surprised if celtic don't win the cup. How does European football work if they do? At what stage does each place enter which competition?

If Celtic win the Cup third place enters into the Europe League playoff. Win that, enter the Europa League, lose and you drop down to the Conference League new format.

I'm not 100% on fourth if I'm honest, but I think it's the Conference League third qualifying round. Win that then you'd enter the Conference League play-off.

Fifth will be a round earlier than fourth.

[AmericanKev]

The winner of the Scottish Cup shouldn't get the best non-CL spot; they should have the worst one.

It's absurd that this system is in place.

I think they should get the 2nd one (i.e. what 4th place would get)

Beaten finalists should get nothing

[AmericanKev]

If someone else stops a treble chasing Celtic to win the cup then you just need to say fair play to them! Nothing we can do about it.

My only gripe about the cup is that we're no longer involved. This team deserves a chance at Hampden and for once I would have been confident.

As good as this season has turned out to be, lady luck has still had it in for us sending us to Parkhead twice in the cups.

This.

But we got a hard tie in a previous round away to septic so it's no surprise we are out. If only Rangers had put celtic out then we could put Rangers out.

There's no love lost by me for celtic so I hope St Johnstone do them again then go onto win it.

[Paul1642]

The winner of the Scottish Cup shouldn't get the best non-CL spot; they should have the worst one.

It's absurd that this system is in place.

Disagree. Whilst it would be beyond frustrating if this system went against us this season as it would be only the 2nd time since 2016 the cup winner wasn’t already 3rd or higher, with us involved in both of those cup finals since that time, but that doesn’t mean it’s not fair.

Winning the Scottish cup is a huge achievement for any club that isn’t Celtic and should be rewarded accordingly. Only 5 non old firm clubs have won it since the millennium.

It’s a sad state of affairs that coming 3rd in Scottish football is realistically the best we can hope for but 3rd place shouldn’t be rewarded over winning our countries major cup. I would hate to see the Scottish cup devalued.

It wasn’t so long ago the defeated finalist would get the place by default if the winner had qualified already. That wasn’t fair and I’m glad we’ve done away with it.

If Aberdeen, Hearts or St Johnstone win it this year, then unfortunately for us they deserve it.

[JohnM1875]

Disagree. Whilst it would be beyond frustrating if this system went against us this season as it would be only the 2nd time since 2016 the cup winner wasn’t already 3rd or higher, with us involved in both of those cup finals since that time, but that doesn’t mean it’s not fair.

Winning the Scottish cup is a huge achievement for any club that isn’t Celtic and should be rewarded accordingly. Only 5 non old firm clubs have won it since the millennium.

It’s a sad state of affairs that coming 3rd in Scottish football is realistically the best we can hope for but 3rd place shouldn’t be rewarded over winning our counties major cup. I would hate to see the Scottish cup devalued.

It wasn’t so long ago the defeated finalist would get the place by default if the winner had qualified already. That wasn’t fair and I’m glad we’ve done away with it.

Completely agree.

[SJNB Hibby]

I think the most important thing in the semis is that Celtic and Aberdeen both win. That will guarantee us SOME form of European footie, and Hearts can then concentrate on not getting relegated Then worry about getting 3rd and hope Celtic win the Cup. In that scenario 4th wouldn't be the end of the world, as we go into the Europa playdowns, falling into the Conference playdowns/League if/when we get knocked out. All it really takes is one favourable draw, ie not the likes of Villa, and we could get into the Groups

[Paul1642]

I think the most important thing in the semis is that Celtic and Aberdeen both win. That will guarantee us SOME form of European footie, and Hearts can then concentrate on not getting relegated Then worry about getting 3rd and hope Celtic win the Cup. In that scenario 4th wouldn't be the end of the world, as we go into the Europa playdowns, falling into the Conference playdowns/League if/when we get knocked out. All it really takes is one favourable draw, ie not the likes of Villa, and we could get into the Groups

I agree with you about the Semi finals, and ultimately all we can only control what we can control, secure 3rd and hope for the best / most likely option that Celtic win.

I never thought I’d see the day that I celebrate a Celtic cup win yet here we are. Maybe a wee tenner on their opposition for good measure.

[He's here!]

I agree with you about the Semi finals, and ultimately all we can only control what we can control, secure 3rd and hope for the best / most likely option that Celtic win.

I never thought I’d see the day that I celebrate a Celtic cup win yet here we are. Maybe a wee tenner on their opposition for good measure.

Celebrate would be too strong a word but I'm always mightily satisfied when either Celtic or Rangers beat Hearts in a cup final. It's the one true benefit of their existence.

[gbhibby]

Celtic win, the rest is in our own hands. Worst scenario we finish 3rd and Hearts win the Cup

[greenlex]

I agree with you about the Semi finals, and ultimately all we can only control what we can control, secure 3rd and hope for the best / most likely option that Celtic win.

I never thought I’d see the day that I celebrate a Celtic cup win yet here we are. Maybe a wee tenner on their opposition for good measure.
I’d rather be ****ing miserable than bet on Hearts in a cup final.

[Since90+2]

I think the most important thing in the semis is that Celtic and Aberdeen both win. That will guarantee us SOME form of European footie, and Hearts can then concentrate on not getting relegated Then worry about getting 3rd and hope Celtic win the Cup. In that scenario 4th wouldn't be the end of the world, as we go into the Europa playdowns, falling into the Conference playdowns/League if/when we get knocked out. All it really takes is one favourable draw, ie not the likes of Villa, and we could get into the Groups

I don't think 4th gets you Europa league play offs. That goes to either 3rd or whoever wins the cup if it's not Celtic.

[SJNB Hibby]

I don't think 4th gets you Europa league play offs. That goes to either 3rd or whoever wins the cup if it's not Celtic.
Killie entered the Europa League at the 2nd qualifying stage this season, and Hearts at the Play-offs

[JohnM1875]

Killie entered the Europa League at the 2nd qualifying stage this season, and Hearts at the Play-offs

So they did, lost 2-1 over two legs against Cercle Brugge then entered the Conference League third qualifying round.

[ancient hibee]

I
This.

But we got a hard tie in a previous round away to septic so it's no surprise we are out. If only Rangers had put celtic out then we could put Rangers out.

There's no love lost by me for celtic so I hope St Johnstone do them again then go onto win it.
If you don’t mind me saying so you are a very strange Hibs supporter. Don’t you want us to get the best possible European qualification?

[Tambo]

Would love a 3rd finish and Celtic to win the cup for guaranteed group football next season which would bring a welcome financial bonus.

If we do finish 3rd and Aberdeen or St Johnstone wins the cup then it would still be a great season, can't bear to finish 3rd and them to win it.

[danhibees1875]

Celtic win, the rest is in our own hands. Worst scenario we finish 3rd and Hearts win the Cup

I guess worst scenario is we finish 5th and Hearts win the cup. That would mean 5th didn't get a European spot at all (which is the reason I'm ranking it worse than finishing 6th).

[Hibee87]

I was told today that if Rangers won the Europa league then they auto qualify for the champs league, and the 2nd spot place would drop to 3rd....surely that can't be true?

[PatHead]

I was told today that if Rangers won the Europa league then they auto qualify for the champs league, and the 2nd spot place would drop to 3rd....surely that can't be true?

It will but I wouldn't build my hopes up if I were you.

[Bobby's Cinema]

A lot of running between now and the end of the season. 2 teams behind us in striking distance still.

If we finish third it would be a great achievement in a normal season nevermind the way we done things. Then we just have to accept whatever comes our way. But Celtic to win it surely.

[Paul1642]

I was told today that if Rangers won the Europa league then they auto qualify for the champs league, and the 2nd spot place would drop to 3rd....surely that can't be true?

Sounds true to me. Winning European competitions = an automatic spot for that team, completely separate from any qualification via their national league.

Hypothetically Rangers could have come 6th in the SPL yet won the Europa League and would still need to qualify.

It’s almost definitely irrelevant because they aren’t going to win it.

[Hibee87]

It will but I wouldn't build my hopes up if I were you.

Haha I'm not, was just curious. I didn't think it worked like that, unless it changed? Didn't Spurs or someone miss out on CL place when a similar scenario happened

[Just_Jimmy]

Disagree. Whilst it would be beyond frustrating if this system went against us this season as it would be only the 2nd time since 2016 the cup winner wasn’t already 3rd or higher, with us involved in both of those cup finals since that time, but that doesn’t mean it’s not fair.

Winning the Scottish cup is a huge achievement for any club that isn’t Celtic and should be rewarded accordingly. Only 5 non old firm clubs have won it since the millennium.

It’s a sad state of affairs that coming 3rd in Scottish football is realistically the best we can hope for but 3rd place shouldn’t be rewarded over winning our countries major cup. I would hate to see the Scottish cup devalued.

It wasn’t so long ago the defeated finalist would get the place by default if the winner had qualified already. That wasn’t fair and I’m glad we’ve done away with it.

If Aberdeen, Hearts or St Johnstone win it this year, then unfortunately for us they deserve it.It is rewarded appropriately.

The history books say Scottish Cup Winners and you get the Cup.



Sent from my SM-S931B using Tapatalk

[AmericanKev]

Cups should carry a euro place. Perhaps the league cup winners could get one of the places instead of going as low as 5th in the league

[Since452]

Celtic won't Jambottle the Scottish cup when the treble is within their grasp.

[AmericanKev]

Celtic won't Jambottle the Scottish cup when the treble is within their grasp.

Normally agree but Celtic aren't exactly looking amazing just now, diddy teams like St Johnstone and Rangers have been beating them recently. Suppose could argue the players know the league is in the bag:confused:

[Keith_M]

I'm not sure I understand what we're supposed to be voting for

[tamig]

I'm not sure I understand what we're supposed to be voting for

A bizarre thread. And someone even hoping for a St J cup win that would destroy our automatic group stage qualification. Utter madness.

[Billy Bunter 07]

Celtic hopefully smash Aberdeen in the Final. Unsure why anyone would want otherwise.

[Billy Bunter 07]

Normally agree but Celtic aren't exactly looking amazing just now, diddy teams like St Johnstone and Rangers have been beating them recently. Suppose could argue the players know the league is in the bag:confused:

St Johnstone are fighting for their lives and the huns it was their cup final. Usually can't stand Celtc but they will step it up in the Cup.

[AmericanKev]

St Johnstone are fighting for their lives and the huns it was their cup final. Usually can't stand Celtc but they will step it up in the Cup.

hope your right

[AmericanKev]

A bizarre thread. And someone even hoping for a St J cup win that would destroy our automatic group stage qualification. Utter madness.

So that's what Scottish football has come to - we hope strongest team keeps on winning. St Johnston winning the cup would be great for the game. Canny stand the old firm

[JohnM1875]

So that's what Scottish football has come to - we hope strongest team keeps on winning. St Johnston winning the cup would be great for the game. Canny stand the old firm

If the OF winning benefits Hibs, then of course.

[overdrive]

Haha I'm not, was just curious. I didn't think it worked like that, unless it changed? Didn't Spurs or someone miss out on CL place when a similar scenario happened

I don't think it would either. I've found this article from a few years ago when The Rangers were doing well in Europe which described this exact scenario. [sorry for the link to the Sun]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/8763639/rangers-win-europa-league-celtic-win-premiership-leipzig/

It says that Celtic would retain their automatic UCL group phase place. The Rangers would get an automatic UCL group phase place as well. It also says that Hearts (who were in third) would be unaffected by it, i.e. would still go into the UEL at the play-off round rather than get The Rangers' original UCL qualifying place. It doesn't say what happens to the original place but I think it trickles down to whichever country is next in line for an extra UCL space.

Unless something has changed since then which is quite possible given the format of the three competitions has changed since then.

Edit: was there not some bizarre thing in Germany last season where it was actually more beneficial in terms of qualifying for Europe for a team to actually deliberately throw their last couple of games in the league?

[Billy Bunter 07]

So that's what Scottish football has come to - we hope strongest team keeps on winning. St Johnston winning the cup would be great for the game. Canny stand the old firm

Supporting Hibernian is wanting the best for Hibernian, both financially and for trips for the supporters. St Johnstone winning the cup would be pish for Hibernian and having a probable relegated side in the European Group stages next season would in no way be good for the co-efficient or our game.

[He's here!]

So that's what Scottish football has come to - we hope strongest team keeps on winning. St Johnston winning the cup would be great for the game. Canny stand the old firm

St Johnstone have won three major trophies in the last decade or so. Great moments for them but it doesn't seem to have noticeably boosted their support, their fortunes or the game in general.

The rule of thumb as a Hibs fan is that you're fine with Rangers or Celtic winning if it boosts Hibs, plus they're good to rely on when it comes to beating Hearts, particularly in cup finals. That's just the way it's been for many years, not a reflection of 'where the game's come to'.

[AmericanKev]

Supporting Hibernian is wanting the best for Hibernian, both financially and for trips for the supporters. St Johnstone winning the cup would be pish for Hibernian and having a probable relegated side in the European Group stages next season would in no way be good for the co-efficient or our game.

But St Johnston could use the money and rebuild and come back stronger, then put in a challenge in the league for next year and become the 2nd force in scottish football.

I'm off to eat more magic mushrooms

[overdrive]

I don't think it would either. I've found this article from a few years ago when The Rangers were doing well in Europe which described this exact scenario. [sorry for the link to the Sun]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/8763639/rangers-win-europa-league-celtic-win-premiership-leipzig/

It says that Celtic would retain their automatic UCL group phase place. The Rangers would get an automatic UCL group phase place as well. It also says that Hearts (who were in third) would be unaffected by it, i.e. would still go into the UEL at the play-off round rather than get The Rangers' original UCL qualifying place. It doesn't say what happens to the original place but I think it trickles down to whichever country is next in line for an extra UCL space.

Unless something has changed since then which is quite possible given the format of the three competitions has changed since then.

Edit: was there not some bizarre thing in Germany last season where it was actually more beneficial in terms of qualifying for Europe for a team to actually deliberately throw their last couple of games in the league?

Re the last point:

https://www.sportbible.com/football/bundesliga/bundesliga-borussia-dortmund-champions-league-frankfurt-psg-leipzig-036629-20240503

It was Frankfurt if Dortmund had won the Champions League. Their original place only went to 6th place (Frankfurt) if they finished in 5th, not any higher. So if Dortmund won the UCL, Frankfurt needed to lose to Leipzig on the final day to help Leipzig finish ahead of Dortmund in 4th so that Frankfurt would get the UCL place.

Absolutely mental.

[JimBHibees]

Celtic hopefully smash Aberdeen in the Final. Unsure why anyone would want otherwise.

Yep

[Billy Bunter 07]

I don't think it would either. I've found this article from a few years ago when The Rangers were doing well in Europe which described this exact scenario. [sorry for the link to the Sun]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/8763639/rangers-win-europa-league-celtic-win-premiership-leipzig/

It says that Celtic would retain their automatic UCL group phase place. The Rangers would get an automatic UCL group phase place as well. It also says that Hearts (who were in third) would be unaffected by it, i.e. would still go into the UEL at the play-off round rather than get The Rangers' original UCL qualifying place. It doesn't say what happens to the original place but I think it trickles down to whichever country is next in line for an extra UCL space.

Unless something has changed since then which is quite possible given the format of the three competitions has changed since then.

Edit: was there not some bizarre thing in Germany last season where it was actually more beneficial in terms of qualifying for Europe for a team to actually deliberately throw their last couple of games in the league?

Only difference next season is the huns play a game more to get in the UCL, the season after is unclear, huns doing well on Thursday probably helps.

[AmericanKev]

Once yer team is out the cup it shouldn't matter.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Once yer team is out the cup it shouldn't matter.

I agree it shouldnt. But it very much does. There is literally several million pounds at stake here for Hibernian FC which, if we do our job in the league, hinges on Celtic being up for the cup.

[SickBoy32]

So that's what Scottish football has come to - we hope strongest team keeps on winning. St Johnston winning the cup would be great for the game. Canny stand the old firm

If your no bleating on for days about wanting the gorgie tramps to finish top 6 - now we’re subject to this guff ffs 😂

[He's here!]

Once yer team is out the cup it shouldn't matter.

It should if there's a lot riding on who wins it from a Hibs perspective. As there is this season.

Most seasons though the priority if Hibs get knocked out is is that Hearts also get knocked out.

To be honest I don't really get what you're trying to argue here.

[He's here!]

If your no bleating on for days about wanting the gorgie tramps to finish top 6 - now we’re subject to this guff ffs 😂

Yep, it's got a yam-ish feel to it.

[HarpOnHibee]

Celtic will win. They got complacent in the league because they could afford to be complacent. They won't be complacent in the cup.

[Up-the-slope]

I'm not sure I understand what we're supposed to be voting for

:confused: which of the scenario's you think most likely as season shakes out

[Up-the-slope]

A bizarre thread. And someone even hoping for a St J cup win that would destroy our automatic group stage qualification. Utter madness.

why do you see it as a bizarre thread? as stated 3rd place is in our own hands - group stage Euro place is not. Surely that worthy of discussion?

Much better that discussion of who we might face in relegation playoff that look much more likely a few months ago than top 6 and Euro possibilities

[tamig]

Once yer team is out the cup it shouldn't matter.

I’ve come to the conclusion you are at it. No Hibs fan can come out with the pish you’ve spouted on this thread. Maybe you’re still at primary school or something - so apologies if that’s the case. Celtic winning the cup is in Hibs best interest. So we are very much interested in how things pan out. But if you’re no Hibby, I can see how you’re coming out with the nonsense. And a few have bitten and given you the time of day - myself included. No more. Just wanted to say my piece.

[tamig]

why do you see it as a bizarre thread? as stated 3rd place is in our own hands - group stage Euro place is not. Surely that worthy of discussion?

Much better that discussion of who we might face in relegation playoff that look much more likely a few months ago than top 6 and Euro possibilities

No probs, you can start any thread you like. But I thought the majority of people on here were pretty aware of the Cup situation - and what the best outcome for Hibs would be. Its been mentioned in passing on a few other threads, but I suppose this packages it up in one place. Apologies for any offence.

The bizarre comment was maybe s bit unfair as that’s mainly aimed at the questionable views of one poster. I’ve just posted another comment about that.

[AmericanKev]

I’ve come to the conclusion you are at it. No Hibs fan can come out with the pish you’ve spouted on this thread. Maybe you’re still at primary school or something - so apologies if that’s the case. Celtic winning the cup is in Hibs best interest. So we are very much interested in how things pan out. But if you’re no Hibby, I can see how you’re coming out with the nonsense. And a few have bitten and given you the time of day - myself included. No more. Just wanted to say my piece.

Right sorry. In that case I want Celtic to win the cup now.

[CmoantheHibs]

Right sorry. In that case I want Celtic to win the cup now.

Yeah because before you weren't even aware of that scenario🙄

[AmericanKev]

Yeah because before you weren't even aware of that scenario🙄

👍. Yes I thought 3rd was top place in Europe

[Springbank]

AmericanKev is an anagram of Mince Raker

almost

[1875M]

Celtic winning is in Hibs best interest. Therefore, I want Celtic to win. I really don’t get any other argument here. If they smash Hearts / Aberdeen in the final, even better. 2 horrible clubs, one of which has delusions of grandeur and one of which is stuck in the 1980’s with an inflated sense of ego based on historical achievements when at least 50% of their supporters weren’t even thought of.

[AmericanKev]

AmericanKev is an anagram of Mince Raker

almost
Thanks

[Up-the-slope]

No probs, you can start any thread you like. But I thought the majority of people on here were pretty aware of the Cup situation - and what the best outcome for Hibs would be. Its been mentioned in passing on a few other threads, but I suppose this packages it up in one place. Apologies for any offence.

The bizarre comment was maybe s bit unfair as that’s mainly aimed at the questionable views of one poster. I’ve just posted another comment about that.
:aok:

[AmericanKev]

No probs, you can start any thread you like. But I thought the majority of people on here were pretty aware of the Cup situation - and what the best outcome for Hibs would be. Its been mentioned in passing on a few other threads, but I suppose this packages it up in one place. Apologies for any offence.

The bizarre comment was maybe s bit unfair as that’s mainly aimed at the questionable views of one poster. I’ve just posted another comment about that.

No probs 👍

[greenlex]

No probs 👍

I think you might last about another week at max.