The game and VAR has gone crazy

[RIP Bestie]

If that red card in the Kilmarnock v Motherwell is
1. Worthy of VAR asking the ref to have a look at it and.
2. Worthy or the referee, having viewed it, resulted in showing a red.
The game has gone.
What is the point any more?

[Unseen work]

I reckon the tackle in the Everton Liverpool game last week has came into their thoughts as well as the injury to Murray and the height of it - see below

https://x.com/snsgroup/status/1908566687890145502?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

I think they’re trying to completely do away with the “win the ball but leave a bit on them”

[Hiber-nation]

I reckon the tackle in the Everton Liverpool game last week has came into their thoughts as well as the injury to Murray and the height of it - see below

https://x.com/snsgroup/status/1908566687890145502?s=46&t=jmxs-mZWT_cnYbURW-GKJw

I think they’re trying to completely do away with the “win the ball but leave a bit on them”

Agree but the 2 tackles were completely different as anyone who has played football will know. Tarkowski dived in and followed through aggressively. Balmer's challenge was simply a clearance with no intent to follow through.

[AmericanKev]

Agree but the 2 tackles were completely different as anyone who has played football will know. Tarkowski dived in and followed through aggressively. Balmer's challenge was simply a clearance with no intent to follow through.

I'm all for binning var completely

[JimBHibees]

I'm all for binning var completely

Without it we wouldn’t have got our second goal yesterday

[RyeSloan]

Without it we wouldn’t have got our second goal yesterday

Quite a few critical goals it’s saved for us this year.

It’s clearly rather handy for offsides. The use of it front anything else on Scotland seems rather more random.

[Libby Hibby]

The concept of VAR is spot on.

It’s the fannies that are implementing it that’s the problem.

[AmericanKev]

Without it we wouldn’t have got our second goal yesterday

But there will be others it won't. You can't base it on only the decision that go your way. You either like it or you don't - and I'm saying I don't.

[Smartie]

If that red card in the Kilmarnock v Motherwell is
1. Worthy of VAR asking the ref to have a look at it and.
2. Worthy or the referee, having viewed it, resulted in showing a red.
The game has gone.
What is the point any more?

The refereeing and use of VAR was poor in that game. Very poor.

But the point about our second goal yesterday is a good one.

The points from the Killie game need to be put forward as learning points. I still maintain we need to make VAR better rather than ditch it.

[AmericanKev]

The refereeing and use of VAR was poor in that game. Very poor.

But the point about our second goal yesterday is a good one.

The points from the Killie game need to be put forward as learning points. I still maintain we need to make VAR better rather than ditch it.

Nothing var does impresses me. Watched a bit of spurs v Southampton today and it was pish. Liverpool v Everton challenge looked a red card but was yellow, today hearts looked a yellow but was red. I enjoyed watching Leeds match on Saturday afternoon as there was no var and the ref and linesman did a decent enough job..

[matty_f]

I’m in favour of VAR, it gets far more right than it gets wrong and, in turn, far more right than the on field officials do unassisted.

It needs to improve, no doubt about it, but I look at goals this season against Rangers, Hearts, Dundee United, Celtic, and Aberdeen and world much rather be seeing the outcome of those games decided on what we did rather than mistakes from the referees, which would have been the case otherwise.

[SickBoy32]

I’m in favour of VAR, it gets far more right than it gets wrong and, in turn, far more right than the on field officials do unassisted.

On-field officials have all but stopped making decisions these days, so not sure that’s an overly valid comparison to be honest.

They’ll defer, anything - and I mean anything, remotely controversial to their pals in the VAR box. They bottle making decisions week after week. I mean we had a case at ER recently when the Lino didny even flag when the ball was about half a yard out of play 😂

I’m not convinced decisions since VAR are any better than they were say 5 years ago.

[AmericanKev]

I’m not convinced decisions since VAR are any better than they were say 5 years ago.

They are categorically not better. Lots of marginal offsides that are basically on. Only a couple bits of the game are better with var, most of it is worse.

Just watch some championship games in England and see what I mean. No var = better game apart from a few small exceptions.

[B.H.F.C]

VAR isn’t the issue, the standard of officiating is.

It’s overlooked because it got overturned but the offside call against Boyle yesterday was terrible. Just as the decision to call Campbell’s second goal against Celtic offside was. And the opening goal at Tynecastle should never have been disallowed either. That’s three massive goals, in three massive games that we’d have had disallowed were it not for VAR intervening. Could have had a massive impact on our season had we not got them.

Should be retained for factual stuff only as the officials up here, particularly, aren’t of a good enough standard and it just gives them more opportunity to get things wrong.

[ancient hibee]

VAR isn’t the issue, the standard of officiating is.

It’s overlooked because it got overturned but the offside call against Boyle yesterday was terrible. Just as the decision to call Campbell’s second goal against Celtic offside was. And the opening goal at Tynecastle should never have been disallowed either. That’s three massive goals, in three massive games that we’d have had disallowed were it not for VAR intervening. Could have had a massive impact on our season had we not got them.

Should be retained for factual stuff only as the officials up here, particularly, aren’t of a good enough standard and it just gives them more opportunity to get things wrong.
:top marks

[AmericanKev]

VAR isn’t the issue, the standard of officiating is.

It’s overlooked because it got overturned but the offside call against Boyle yesterday was terrible. Just as the decision to call Campbell’s second goal against Celtic offside was. And the opening goal at Tynecastle should never have been disallowed either. That’s three massive goals, in three massive games that we’d have had disallowed were it not for VAR intervening. Could have had a massive impact on our season had we not got them.

Should be retained for factual stuff only as the officials up here, particularly, aren’t of a good enough standard and it just gives them more opportunity to get things wrong.
All good but just wait for when we get the next 3 or 4 that go against us to level it up. Some bad ones are in the post for sure. It's the whole system thats rubbish and spoils match experience.

[Danderhall Hibs]

On-field officials have all but stopped making decisions these days, so not sure that’s an overly valid comparison to be honest.

They’ll defer, anything - and I mean anything, remotely controversial to their pals in the VAR box. They bottle making decisions week after week. I mean we had a case at ER recently when the Lino didny even flag when the ball was about half a yard out of play 😂

I’m not convinced decisions since VAR are any better than they were say 5 years ago.

I think 4 of the decisions Matty listed are offsides they gave in error. VAR sorted them thankfully and gave us some great results.

[matty_f]

On-field officials have all but stopped making decisions these days, so not sure that’s an overly valid comparison to be honest.

They’ll defer, anything - and I mean anything, remotely controversial to their pals in the VAR box. They bottle making decisions week after week. I mean we had a case at ER recently when the Lino didny even flag when the ball was about half a yard out of play 😂

I’m not convinced decisions since VAR are any better than they were say 5 years ago.
That’s not the case - the VAR guidelines are really clear that the referee has to make the decision on field, they’re not allowed to wait and see.

You hear it in the audio on the VAR review, that’s how VAR knows if the ref hasn’t seen something or if they’ve made a mistake.

Two examples involving us - penalty against Cadden at Ross Co. Referee didn’t see the handball and made no decision, VAR saw it and sent the referee to the monitor to make the decision (VAR didn’t decide).

Handball by Tavernier yesterday, referee saw it and said no penalty - VAR didn’t intervene as the referee has not made a clear and obvious error. If the referee has made no decision, he should have been called to the screen to review it.

As for the linesman, the ball going out for a throw in isn’t in scope for VAR unless it results in a goal so there’s nothing for VAR to check so no reason to keep the flag down.

[JohnM1875]

Balmers red card at the weekend rescinded. No surprise there. Ridiculous decision for VAR to ask the ref to review.

Meant Motherwell had to play 75 mins with 10 men. No doubt changed the game.

[easty]

Balmers red card at the weekend rescinded. No surprise there. Ridiculous decision for VAR to ask the ref to review.

Meant Motherwell had to play 75 mins with 10 men. No doubt changed the game.

They brought Tavares on after 54 mins, so basically played the last 36 mins with 9 men.

[Centre Hawf]

I'm sick of VAR but I'm not hugely sure my gripes are with the concept or technology itself and instead with the way it's being used and by who is using it.

Things like offside goals have been pretty much fixed from what the situation was 5/6 years ago, although there is the odd incident where you can't quite tell with the quality of image. I'm not sure I'd like to go back to officials guessing for things like Saturday's second goal.

It definitely needs to tighten itself up but it's a user issue more than the tech for me.

[JohnM1875]

I'm sick of VAR but I'm not hugely sure my gripes are with the concept or technology itself and instead with the way it's being used and by who is using it.

Things like offside goals have been pretty much fixed from what the situation was 5/6 years ago, although there is the odd incident where you can't quite tell with the quality of image. I'm not sure I'd like to go back to officials guessing for things like Saturday's second goal.

It definitely needs to tighten itself up but it's a user issue more than the tech for me.

It’s undoubtedly the dafties using it for me.

[B.H.F.C]

Balmers red card at the weekend rescinded. No surprise there. Ridiculous decision for VAR to ask the ref to review.

Meant Motherwell had to play 75 mins with 10 men. No doubt changed the game.

Don’t know who the VAR was but Matthew McDiarmid was the on field referee. Involved in controversy pretty much every week.

[B.H.F.C]

I'm sick of VAR but I'm not hugely sure my gripes are with the concept or technology itself and instead with the way it's being used and by who is using it.

Things like offside goals have been pretty much fixed from what the situation was 5/6 years ago, although there is the odd incident where you can't quite tell with the quality of image. I'm not sure I'd like to go back to officials guessing for things like Saturday's second goal.

It definitely needs to tighten itself up but it's a user issue more than the tech for me.

I don’t think the assistant guessed on Saturday. Just put his flag up in hope. Similar when Campbell scored against Celtic. Both shocking calls and that is, at least, one good point with VAR overturning that type of thing. Decisions that have went against us against those two for years.

[AmericanKev]

I'm sick of VAR but I'm not hugely sure my gripes are with the concept or technology itself and instead with the way it's being used and by who is using it.

Things like offside goals have been pretty much fixed from what the situation was 5/6 years ago, although there is the odd incident where you can't quite tell with the quality of image. I'm not sure I'd like to go back to officials guessing for things like Saturday's second goal.

It definitely needs to tighten itself up but it's a user issue more than the tech for me.

No, what we need is it to be flipped to any part of a striker onside, then it's onside.

[Centre Hawf]

No, what we need is it to be flipped to any part of a striker onside, then it's onside.

That doesn’t really change the debate on offsides. You just debate a players heel vs their toe instead.

[Centre Hawf]

I don’t think the assistant guessed on Saturday. Just put his flag up in hope. Similar when Campbell scored against Celtic. Both shocking calls and that is, at least, one good point with VAR overturning that type of thing. Decisions that have went against us against those two for years.

Guess or not the on field decision was wrong and VAR helped get to the right decision on both occasions.

[matty_f]

Balmers red card at the weekend rescinded. No surprise there. Ridiculous decision for VAR to ask the ref to review.

Meant Motherwell had to play 75 mins with 10 men. No doubt changed the game.
That decision is on the ref, though - VAR can suggest he’s made a mistake but the daft ******* has watched it again and pulled out a red card. That’s not VAR, that’s an incompetent referee.

[matty_f]

That doesn’t really change the debate on offsides. You just debate a players heel vs their toe instead.

:agree: you’ll always get very marginal calls and folk will complain about them. It is what it is.

[AmericanKev]

That doesn’t really change the debate on offsides. You just debate a players heel vs their toe instead.
You misunderstand. The new way would mean that anyone who is offside will actually be quite far offside now. The marginal bit will be whether someone is onside. Difficult to explain, would be easy to show in an animation.

[Donegal Hibby]

I see the Sun running with the story that Alan Muir has been axed from refereeing in the Scottish Premier League again for making some high profile errors against the OF …

He certainly wasn’t a good referee but how much worse he was to some of the others remains to be seen . I can’t help thinking that Willie Collum hung him out to dry to a degree .

[Keith_M]

I see the Sun running with the story that Alan Muir has been axed from refereeing in the Scottish Premier League again for making some high profile errors against the OF …

He certainly wasn’t a good referee but how much worse he was to some of the others rest remains to be seen . I can’t help thinking that Willie Collum hung him out to dry to a degree .


His biggest mistake was apparently annoying Celtc by ruling out their 2nd goal against Hibs.

There was no coming back from that one.

[AmericanKev]

His biggest mistake was apparently annoying Celtc by ruling out their 2nd goal against Hibs.

There was no coming back from that one.

that goal shouldn't have stood - and didn't

[Malthibby]

Without it we wouldn’t have got our second goal yesterday

Yup, and we would have lost to Celtic in the league as well.
It's way short of perfect but it does even the playing field to some degree. The cup final loss to Hearts may have been very different with VAR &
as for most of the 70s (& before although i wasn't watching then)...........

[matty_f]

I see the Sun running with the story that Alan Muir has been axed from refereeing in the Scottish Premier League again for making some high profile errors against the OF …

He certainly wasn’t a good referee but how much worse he was to some of the others remains to be seen . I can’t help thinking that Willie Collum hung him out to dry to a degree .

Definitely hung out to dry. Bad news for the rest of us though as they already think twice about giving decisions against Rangers and Celtic. They’ll just not give them if they know their job’s on the line.

[we are hibs]

I see the Sun running with the story that Alan Muir has been axed from refereeing in the Scottish Premier League again for making some high profile errors against the OF …

He certainly wasn’t a good referee but how much worse he was to some of the others remains to be seen . I can’t help thinking that Willie Collum hung him out to dry to a degree .Good to see a couple of decisions going against Celtic and Rangers was the one to tip them over the edge as opposed to the disgraceful one he had V Falkirk in the play offs a few years back. He should've been struck off after that. It was blatant cheating. Claimed he didn't see it after the game and there was a behind the goal angle which showed him staring right at it unobstructed. Must've been the longest blink in history. Liar and cheat. Good riddance.

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[Ron D Hibbie]

The concept of VAR is spot on.

It’s the fannies that are implementing it that’s the problem.

Notice we have clancy on var again on sunday. Seem to get him a lot.

[AmericanKev]

Notice we have clancy on var again on sunday. Seem to get him a lot.

the strange thing is that Clancy is actually the best ref we have at the moment.

[Joe6-2]

I see the Sun running with the story that Alan Muir has been axed from refereeing in the Scottish Premier League again for making some high profile errors against the OF …

He certainly wasn’t a good referee but how much worse he was to some of the others remains to be seen . I can’t help thinking that Willie Collum hung him out to dry to a degree .

Obviously only matters how they referee that pair

[Donegal Hibby]

His biggest mistake was apparently annoying Celtc by ruling out their 2nd goal against Hibs.

There was no coming back from that one.

That was a big part of it alright and IMO Willie Collum has handled the whole situation really badly as he’s now set the tone in showing the other officials that it’s not a good idea to rock the boat in giving decisions against the OF .

[Joe6-2]

The concept of VAR is spot on.

It’s the fannies that are implementing it that’s the problem.

Spot on, I’ve always thought it would solve the problem of favoritism to the OF, but as you say it’s the same fannies with the last word

[Ron D Hibbie]

the strange thing is that Clancy is actually the best ref we have at the moment.

🤣🤣🤣

[SickBoy32]

Good to see a couple of decisions going against Celtic and Rangers was the one to tip them over the edge as opposed to the disgraceful one he had V Falkirk in the play offs a few years back. He should've been struck off after that. It was blatant cheating. Claimed he didn't see it after the game and there was a behind the goal angle which showed him staring right at it unobstructed. Must've been the longest blink in history. Liar and cheat. Good riddance.

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Spot on with your assessment of his cheating, and that’s what it was - vs Falkirk 👍

Tells a story though that it was ultimately a decision against the OF (a factual and 100percent correct decision too, let’s not forget) that has led to his demise.

[JimBHibees]

the strange thing is that Clancy is actually the best ref we have at the moment.

Nowhere near the best ref actually incredible he still gets games

[Hiber-nation]

the strange thing is that Clancy is actually the best ref we have at the moment.

You were rumbled a while back, just stop it 😂

[AmericanKev]

You were rumbled a while back, just stop it 😂
.
No I'm not Kevin Clancy. I just realised what you said there :not worth

Ok name me a better referee at the moment then?

[matty_f]

.
No I'm not Kevin Clancy. I just realised what you said there :not worth

Ok name me a better referee at the moment then?

Stevie Wonder.

[AmericanKev]

Stevie Wonder.

haha

The reason I like Nancy Clancy is that he's fair. He's awful throughout the whole game but doesn't fold to bias. That's better than having bias.

[CropleyWasGod]

haha

The reason I like Nancy Clancy is that he's fair. He's awful throughout the whole game but doesn't fold to bias. That's better than having bias.

So he's awful, but awful for all teams?

And.... Nancy?

[AmericanKev]

So he's awful, but awful for all teams?

And.... Nancy?

Yes, hence the best referee

[CropleyWasGod]

Yes, hence the best referee

A strange way of measurement IMO. I would have thought competence was a better metric.

And Nancy? Where does that come from?

[AmericanKev]

A strange way of measurement IMO. I would have thought competence was a better metric.

And Nancy? Where does that come from?

Rhyming slang. Yes it is indeed strange but he's the best we have imo.. 100% fair..can't put a figure on his accuracy but it's no higher than the rest. Do you have a favourite ref?

[Hiber-nation]

Rhyming slang. Yes it is indeed strange but he's the best we have imo.. 100% fair..can't put a figure on his accuracy but it's no higher than the rest. Do you have a favourite ref?

You were giving us a laugh with some of your type before thinking posts but its getting boring now.

[HibbyAndy]

Rhyming slang. Yes it is indeed strange but he's the best we have imo.. 100% fair..can't put a figure on his accuracy but it's no higher than the rest. Do you have a favourite ref?

Craig Thompson ?:wink:

[Donegal Hibby]

Obviously only matters how they referee that pair

Pretty much so . I think it’s terrible that certain clubs can apply pressure and folk in charge buckle to it .. does this mean the next time Hibs , hertz or Aberdeen have a decision go against them they can apply similar pressure which results in someone losing their job ? … I very much doubt it ! Willie Collum has made a complete a*** of this and thrown Muir under the bus just to keep the uglies happy .

[Joe6-2]

Pretty much so . I think it’s terrible that certain clubs can apply pressure and folk in charge buckle to it .. does this mean the next time Hibs , hertz or Aberdeen have a decision go against them they can apply similar pressure which results in someone losing their job ? … I very much doubt it ! Willie Collum has made a complete a*** of this and thrown Muir under the bus just to keep the uglies happy .

Not a hope but further proof of who is running Scottish football

[Wilson]

that goal shouldn't have stood - and didn't

Incorrect. The goal had been given there was no correct avenue to overrule it. Muir incorrectly used VAR and, quite rightly, won't be in charge of VAR again.

Best of both worlds for me. We got the decision AND someone is held accountable for the mistake.

VAR only works if the rules of it's use are applied consistently. Otherwise there really is no point.

[Kato]

Incorrect. The goal had been given there was no correct avenue to overrule it. Muir incorrectly used VAR ....

Every goal is checked for infringements of the rules.



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[AmericanKev]

Craig Thompson ?:wink:

He was least favourite after Hugh Dallas

[AmericanKev]

Incorrect. The goal had been given there was no correct avenue to overrule it. Muir incorrectly used VAR and, quite rightly, won't be in charge of VAR again.

Best of both worlds for me. We got the decision AND someone is held accountable for the mistake.

VAR only works if the rules of it's use are applied consistently. Otherwise there really is no point.

So you wanted the goal to stand???

[AmericanKev]

You were giving us a laugh with some of your type before thinking posts but its getting boring now.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the fact that I think Clancy is the best referee we have in the league. Be interesting to see who you have top of the list and why .

[KeithTheHibby]

Clancy is ****ing awful. Mind last season he game Hearts a penalty against us a Tynecastle, var told him to have a look at it and he kept his decision? Dickhead.
I actually think Nick Walsh and John Beaton are better referees then Clancy.

[Centre Hawf]

So you wanted the goal to stand???

Wanting it to and thinking it should are two different things. This debate was done to death probably just before you signed up but there is a split on this forum on if VAR was applied correctly.

[AmericanKev]

Clancy is ****ing awful. Mind last season he game Hearts a penalty against us a Tynecastle, var told him to have a look at it and he kept his decision? Dickhead.
I actually think Nick Walsh and John Beaton are better referees then Clancy.

John beaten you gotta be joking. So if a ref decides to go with his original decision he's a dick head?? Interesting. I would have thought it shows strength by any ref that does that. I bet there are some that near 100% change their mind -which is wrong.

[AmericanKev]

Wanting it to and thinking it should are two different things. This debate was done to death probably just before you signed up but there is a split on this forum on if VAR was applied correctly.

Got ya. 👍

[BoomtownHibees]

John beaten you gotta be joking. So if a ref decides to go with his original decision he's a dick head?? Interesting. I would have thought it shows strength by any ref that does that. I bet there are some that near 100% change their mind -which is wrong.

His original decision was wrong though so aye, he is a dick

[AmericanKev]

His original decision was wrong though so aye, he is a dick

I remember the game as it was a good kick off time for America, but I couldn't remember that it was Clancy untill you said it. TBF I was drinking and watching it. Id have to see it again but I assume it was a soft one and he didn't change his mind.

[Trinity Hibee]

I remember the game as it was a good kick off time for America, but I couldn't remember that it was Clancy untill you said it. TBF I was drinking and watching it. Id have to see it again but I assume it was a soft one and he didn't change his mind.

Just a wee bit aye

[AmericanKev]

Just a wee bit aye

Heart Of Midlothian 1-1 Hibernian | Shankland Denies Long Awaited Win | cinch Premiership (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANEq0Ab_ao)

found it. Yea soft one . I stand corrected as I didn't think/remember that it was Clancy, guess that falls in the bracket of clumsy but soft in terms of challenges then.

[Centre Hawf]

Heart Of Midlothian 1-1 Hibernian | Shankland Denies Long Awaited Win | cinch Premiership (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANEq0Ab_ao)

found it. Yea soft one . I stand corrected as I didn't think/remember that it was Clancy, guess that falls in the bracket of clumsy but soft in terms of challenges then.

Or just not a penalty?

[Hibs07p]

Heart Of Midlothian 1-1 Hibernian | Shankland Denies Long Awaited Win | cinch Premiership (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANEq0Ab_ao)

found it. Yea soft one . I stand corrected as I didn't think/remember that it was Clancy, guess that falls in the bracket of clumsy but soft in terms of challenges then.

Or being a cheating diving b****** and Vargas avoiding a yellow card.


GGTTH Scottish Cup Winners 2016

[AmericanKev]

Or being a cheating diving b****** and Vargas avoiding a yellow card.


GGTTH Scottish Cup Winners 2016

Yea. :thumbsup:

[AmericanKev]

I was looking at 1.35seconds and the shoulder does hit him and it looks worse in slow motion. Yet another reason to bin VAR as it makes things look a lot worse than they are. In this instance it wouldn't have saved us cause the ref was giving a pen anyway without var, but in other situations where the ref hadn't given a pen (and then had been asked to look at it) it wouldn't have helped.

[CropleyWasGod]

Rhyming slang. Yes it is indeed strange but he's the best we have imo.. 100% fair..can't put a figure on his accuracy but it's no higher than the rest. Do you have a favourite ref?

Since we're doing rhyming cross-gender names, I'll go with Elaine McLean.

[AmericanKev]

Since we're doing rhyming cross-gender names, I'll go with Elaine McLean.

John Rowbotham was always my favourite ref in the late 90s early 00s. That krunt took no nonsense .

[CropleyWasGod]

John Rowbotham was always my favourite ref in the late 90s early 00s. That krunt took no nonsense .

Was that No-bottom Rowbotham?

[AmericanKev]

Was that No-bottom Rowbotham?

Certainly had no hair, not sure about his wee bum.

[RIP Bestie]

Balmers red card at the weekend rescinded. No surprise there. Ridiculous decision for VAR to ask the ref to review.

Meant Motherwell had to play 75 mins with 10 men. No doubt changed the game.

This was really my original point.
How the people looking at VAR seen enough to ask the referee to have a look and then for the ref to award a straight red is beyond me

[ancient hibee]

As the VAR was Andrew Dallas not surprising.

[Silky]

I don’t think the assistant guessed on Saturday. Just put his flag up in hope. Similar when Campbell scored against Celtic. Both shocking calls and that is, at least, one good point with VAR overturning that type of thing. Decisions that have went against us against those two for years.

He flagged because he's a cheat and it was at Ibrox. It was obvious Boyle was in his own half - because of the opposition and the venue the linesman flagged. VAR was correct this time, although shouldn't have been needed in the first place.

[Kato]

Heart Of Midlothian 1-1 Hibernian | Shankland Denies Long Awaited Win | cinch Premiership (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANEq0Ab_ao)

found it. Yea soft one . I stand corrected as I didn't think/remember that it was Clancy, guess that falls in the bracket of clumsy but soft in terms of challenges then.Who was clumsy? The guy dived.

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[matty_f]

Who was clumsy? The guy dived.

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He did, the cheating dirty Hearts *******.