Too Many Subs

[LaMotta]

Heard Warnock say recently that he didn't like making subs when you are holding on to a one goal lead late in a game unless you really had to.

We did this several time earlier in the season when we lost leads late on, feel it may have contributed today - we looked totally disjointed after the three subs.

[Mon Dieu4]

Heard Warnock say recently that he didn't like making subs when you are holding on to a one goal lead late in a game unless you really had to.

We did this several time earlier in the season when we lost leads late on, feel it may have contributed today - we looked totally disjointed after the three subs.

I don't think we made too many subs, the issue was more of who the subs were, normally we are bringing on the likes of Hoilett and Levitt to see out games, they have a bit more about them than most and have a cool head to see the game out, because we started with them that option wasn't there today, double edged sword

[A Hi-Bee]

Win some you lose some, but too many draws does cost us over time.

[LaMotta]

I don't think we made too many subs, the issue was more of who the subs were, normally we are bringing on the likes of Hoilett and Levitt to see out games, they have a bit more about them than most and have a cool head to see the game out, because we started with them that option wasn't there today, double edged sword

I agree Hoilett and Levitt are ideal players to see out a game , so unless they were injured or struggling (which they didnt appear to be) then there was no need to take them off. This equals too many subs.

Gray has been brilliant but think he got that wrong today.

[BILLYHIBS]

Montyball

[Mon Dieu4]

I agree Hoilett and Levitt are ideal players to see out a game , so unless they were injured or struggling (which they didnt appear to be) then there was no need to take them off. This equals too many subs.

Gray has been brilliant but think he got that wrong today.

Without doing too much with it I thought they came more into the game around the 70 min mark and we had to do something to change it up a bit, I don't really blame Gray or his subs, no matter who was on the pitch they should have been able to defend that at the end

[TrinityHFC]

I agree Hoilett and Levitt are ideal players to see out a game , so unless they were injured or struggling (which they didnt appear to be) then there was no need to take them off. This equals too many subs.

Gray has been brilliant but think he got that wrong today.

They both looked knackered to me.

[LaMotta]

They both looked knackered to me.

Neither of them looked knackered to me.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Today felt like a potentially huge moment in the season.

Manage that game out and we solidify third place and noone could deny we'd be red hot favourites.

We've still got a great chance of course but it felt like one of those moments of fate that Hibs have frequently failed to grasp over the decades.

[Nicho87]

Massive two points dropped

More silly chances we passed up you just knew mcinness would throw caution to the wind. Had a feeling they would nick one, totally undeserved in my book which makes it more frustrating

Tin hat on, I thought Bowie was poor

[LaMotta]

Massive two points dropped

More silly chances we passed up you just knew mcinness would throw caution to the wind. Had a feeling they would nick one, totally undeserved in my book which makes it more frustrating

Tin hat on, I thought Bowie was poor

Agree re Bowie, spent a lot of time just going to ground looking for fouls that never were.

He has scored a couple of good goals for us and obviously has great potential, but probably a bit overhyped by some based on the limited evidence so far.

[andrew_dundee]

I feel like people are overreacting to the result. We're (for now at least) third, have fone 14 league games unbeaten and were unlucky on a rank rotten pitch where it's hard to get points.

We probably could and should have won but, at the same time, we've had a tough run and every season will have matches we regret.

This is the sort of match we'd have lost at the start of the season (or last season TBF) so I think it's a case of dusting off and making sure we have a big loud support for St Johnstone in two weeks.

[B.H.F.C]

Agree re Bowie, spent a lot of time just going to ground looking for fouls that never were.

He has scored a couple of good goals for us and obviously has great potential, but probably a bit overhyped by some based on the limited evidence so far.

I thought he was just half a yard off it all day today. Showed the odd bit of quality where he took the ball in and linked it but the defender was in front of him more often than not. Happened on the half way line in the second half and as soon as it did, Gayle got shouted back.

Re the subs, we instantly lost composure on the ball in making them.

[Hibees1973]

I have no problem with Gray's subs today.

Most subs made in the last few minutes, particularly when you are ahead, is mainly to break up play and not allow the opposition to build up momentum. Clearly Gray tried to do this today.

Making a defensive substitution late in the game when you are ahead comes with a high risk. It's more than likely only going to cause confusion among the defenders. Gray didn't bring on any substitute defenders today.

Much as some on here say some players who are replaced with two-three minutes to go are tired, I don't really buy that.

I fully get bringing on more and more forwards as subs when you are behind. But as I said bringing on defensive subs very late when you are ahead, is asking for trouble. Gray may have been culpable in the past doing this, but not today.

[Hibees1973]

Today felt like a potentially huge moment in the season.

Manage that game out and we solidify third place and noone could deny we'd be red hot favourites.

We've still got a great chance of course but it felt like one of those moments of fate that Hibs have frequently failed to grasp over the decades.

The fact is, there is not much between us, Aberdeen, Dundee Utd & the Yam. It's going to be very tight until the end.

We are very much in it. Prior to the split we just have to beat St Johnstone & Dundee at home to stay in control.

Failure to win both of these two games would be criminal.

[Hiber-nation]

Neither of them looked knackered to me.

They were both done in, I was watching them closely just before as I assumed they'd be going off. Campbell unfortunately carried on where he left off last Sunday by giving the ball away cheaply with his first touch.

Most of the blame lies with Iredale, what the hell was he actually doing in letting the defender have a free header? He's been absolutely brilliant for us but he won't want to be watching that again on Monday when they go over the game.

Said it before, if we had a good fully fit striker we'd be well clear third. Bowie not at the races today, it's clearly going to be next season before we see the best of him.

[B.H.F.C]

They were both done in, I was watching them closely just before as I assumed they'd be going off. Campbell unfortunately carried on where he left off last Sunday by giving the ball away cheaply with his first touch.

Most of the blame lies with Iredale, what the hell was he actually doing in letting the defender have a free header? He's been absolutely brilliant for us but he won't want to be watching that again on Monday when they go over the game.

Said it before, if we had a good fully fit striker we'd be well clear third. Bowie not at the races today, it's clearly going to be next season before we see the best of him.

Thought there was a whole catalogue of mistakes in the lead up to the goal. First cross wasn’t properly dealt with. Let them put in another. Lose the header at the back post then Murray standing on his own in the middle of the box. Was really poor all round.

[Donegal Hibby]

Subs weren’t the problem and we didn’t draw the game because of them . As disappointing as it was after being ahead so long a point away to Killie isn’t a bad result, keeps the run going. I’d imagine there will be a few twists and turns in the battle for 3rd place yet ! .

[BILLYHIBS]

Neither of them looked knackered to me.

Made the point at the time at least Levitt is now lasting to 80 minutes now as opposed to 60 a ridiculous situation for a professional sportsperson still looked fresh and was playing well thought it strange at the time sometimes better leaving players that have a feel a grip on the game on first thing Campbell does is give away possession cheaply

[matty_f]

They were both done in, I was watching them closely just before as I assumed they'd be going off. Campbell unfortunately carried on where he left off last Sunday by giving the ball away cheaply with his first touch.

Most of the blame lies with Iredale, what the hell was he actually doing in letting the defender have a free header? He's been absolutely brilliant for us but he won't want to be watching that again on Monday when they go over the game.

Said it before, if we had a good fully fit striker we'd be well clear third. Bowie not at the races today, it's clearly going to be next season before we see the best of him.
Iredale needs to do better with the header and Campbell completely switches off to leave Murray. I thought the keeper should do better but I think the deflection off Rocky absolves him.

The game should have been out of sight by then anyway, we created good chances and got into really good positions but our finishing was very poor.
We played well enough to feel like we deserved the three points but like the game there earlier in the season, a moment of chronic defending gave Killie the chance they needed.

[J-C]

I don't think the subs helped gut you can't blame Gray for that, they were obvious ones but the players coming on were slow to get into the game and this allowed Killie to get on the front foot and we started to sit deeper. You seen the difference in Bowie and Mykola straight away and Campbell's lack of real guile and composure compared to Hoilett, NMW did fine when he came on getting involved and being on the front foot when needed, it was still a poor goal to lose but the game should've been over long before but chances wasted.

[MacGruber]

Iredale needs to do better with the header and Campbell completely switches off to leave Murray. I thought the keeper should do better but I think the deflection off Rocky absolves him.

The game should have been out of sight by then anyway, we created good chances and got into really good positions but our finishing was very poor.
We played well enough to feel like we deserved the three points but like the game there earlier in the season, a moment of chronic defending gave Killie the chance they needed.

Genuinely wondering if the deflection off Rocky really happens or whether everyone has just accepted there must have been a deflection based on Smith diving to his right. Have watched every replay angle so far and just can't see the ball move direction/deflect at all. The dive out the way is otherwise inexplicable though. Maybe it was more obvious to those at the game than can be seen on camera? Just looks like Smith guessed like a penalty

[Springbank]

I thought our biggest mistake all day was trying to play possession football in our own half on a sticky surface.
We were asking for trouble playing almost the whole game in our half.
Killie had given us the Warning signal with the offside goal.
It's a pitch where you play long, buy cheap fouls and then play (in their half)

Bowie & Gayle had the key role & spent too long fouling killie defenders - lunacy.

We need to be way more savvy still

[BILLYHIBS]

Genuinely wondering if the deflection off Rocky really happens or whether everyone has just accepted there must have been a deflection based on Smith diving to his right. Have watched every replay angle so far and just can't see the ball move direction/deflect at all. The dive out the way is otherwise inexplicable though. Maybe it was more obvious to those at the game than can be seen on camera? Just looks like Smith guessed like a penalty

Check out Sportscene individual match day highlights on BBCiPlayer camera angle behind the goals defo hits off Rocky’s foot

[JimBHibees]

Check out Sportscene individual match day highlights on BBCiPlayer camera angle behind the goals defo hits off Rocky’s foot

Yes definitely deflected

[JimBHibees]

I thought our biggest mistake all day was trying to play possession football in our own half on a sticky surface.
We were asking for trouble playing almost the whole game in our half.
Killie had given us the Warning signal with the offside goal.
It's a pitch where you play long, buy cheap fouls and then play (in their half)

Bowie & Gayle had the key role & spent too long fouling killie defenders - lunacy.

We need to be way more savvy still

Personally thought our football was a significant improvement from some of our previous away games.

[JimBHibees]

Made the point at the time at least Levitt is now lasting to 80 minutes now as opposed to 60 a ridiculous situation for a professional sportsperson still looked fresh and was playing well thought it strange at the time sometimes better leaving players that have a feel a grip on the game on first thing Campbell does is give away possession cheaply

Levit has been injured recently and get the impression and may be completely wrong that he has been carrying an injury

[JimBHibees]

Thought there was a whole catalogue of mistakes in the lead up to the goal. First cross wasn’t properly dealt with. Let them put in another. Lose the header at the back post then Murray standing on his own in the middle of the box. Was really poor all round.

We were so slow to get out to put pressure on second cross

[BILLYHIBS]

Levit has been injured recently and get the impression and may be completely wrong that he has been carrying an injury

Had his leg strapped up with black tape right enough

Was unlucky with that drive from outside the box second half sort of goal he used to score at United

[MikeyS]

I'd love to see a return to the 3 subs max rule. Just feel too many changes can quickly derail a game plan.

[LaMotta]

Made the point at the time at least Levitt is now lasting to 80 minutes now as opposed to 60 a ridiculous situation for a professional sportsperson still looked fresh and was playing well thought it strange at the time sometimes better leaving players that have a feel a grip on the game on first thing Campbell does is give away possession cheaply

Completely agree with you Billy, I'm just not getting the players looked done in argument. They are professional footballers who are capable of lasting 90 minutes. They only had 10 more minutes to go.

I really like Campbell but earlier in the season it was correctly imo talked about that he wasnt a great sub to see out a game because he lacks composure on the ball - see Dun utd away collapse. Id far rather have Hoilett on even if he is a wee bit tired.

In terms of someone saying people are overreacting to this game - we have thrown away 2 points which has jeopardised our last shot at getting guaranteed group stage European football for a while due to the coefficient drop from next season. I just hope dropped points like this dont come back to haunt us.

[WhileTheChief..]

We seem to have stopped a lot of points late in games following subs being made.

When we’re winning by a single goal, I’d like to try and see the game out without making any changes.

Just try it the once and see how we get on.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Completely agree with you Billy, I'm just not getting the players looked done in argument. They are professional footballers who are capable of lasting 90 minutes. They only had 10 more minutes to go.

I really like Campbell but earlier in the season it was correctly imo talked about that he wasnt a great sub to see out a game because he lacks composure on the ball - see Dun utd away collapse. Id far rather have Hoilett on even if he is a wee bit tired.

In terms of someone saying people are overreacting to this game - we have thrown away 2 points which has jeopardised our last shot at getting guaranteed group stage European football for a while due to the coefficient drop from next season. I just hope dropped points like this dont come back to haunt us.

Two 92nd minute gut punches at Rugby Park this season.

It's absolutely no exaggeration to say that pissing away those 4 points could cost us millions of pounds.

Let's hope not. One thing I love about SDG is his stoicism after games. He clearly doesn't get too giddy when we win and nor does he panic when we don't. I'm fairly confident we're not going to collapse now in the next few weeks

[Donegal Hibby]

16 games I think it is since we turned a corner .. 10 wins , 6 draws an NO defeats. 3 of the draws we showed good character to comeback from being behind.

Bowie getting subbed was sensible as he’s just back from a bad injury and was playing on an awful pitch .

Even though we were the better team I felt with the subs they made they were gradually improving , Boyle had put in a good shift as did Hoilett and Levitt but I think they seemed to me to be running out of steam so I had no issues with our subs…

We should have dealt with their goal better alright but that wasn’t the reason in my book we dropped two points , neither was the subs we made. It was down to our inability to kill the game off by scoring a second or third that cost us …

Any of us would have bitten the hand off someone if they offered us the position we are now in months ago , we are in a good place and as Martin Boyle said there will probably be a few twists and turns before the end of the season .