Honestly, what's the point....

[Cat Stanton]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

[Itsnoteasy]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

Like most leagues in the world.

[B.H.F.C]

We were in the game right to the death. Granted we didn’t do enough in the final third but it’s not much more skewed than most other leagues.

Chances to win something are going to be pretty limited though.

[TrinityHFC]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

It was a cup game but yeah, difficult to compete. Most countries have some big clubs but not sure how many attract support across the whole country for reasons largely nothing to do with football.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Almost impossible to knock them out at Celtic Park.

If you're going to draw them in the cups you need to hope you're at home. As we saw two weeks ago, anything can happen there

[HendoDelivered]

To have a chance of beating Celtic:

1. You need to be at home
2. Ideally they need to have played midweek
3. They need to have an off day/be tired.

[Iain G]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

That's very defeatest! It's still a game of 11 Vs 11, and anything can or could happen on that day. 9 times out of 10 the favourites will win, but that's the joy of football, it is possible to upset the formbook and win. We did it at ER only a few games back.

[LaMotta]

We were in the game right to the death. Granted we didn’t do enough in the final third but it’s not much more skewed than most other leagues.

Chances to win something are going to be pretty limited though.

:agree: If Cadden hadn't got injured, or Obita had tracked Kuhn at the first goal, we may just have took the game to extra time.

[Cat Stanton]

Like most leagues in the world.

Is it 'though? Genuine question - is the gap similar across other leagues? It seems insanely large here.

[yerauldda]

Is it 'though? Genuine question - is the gap similar across other leagues? It seems insanely large here.

Celtic on course for their 6th treble in 10 years. I’d suggest you’re right.

[davym7062]

its the wee things that get me... iredale gets booked after 25 then he cant tackle again bowie gets booked and he cant be as physical again the sellik left back gets booked in 93 mins they dont need any help

[DH1875]

Like most leagues in the world.

And has been like this for as long as I can remember.
I don't support Hibs because I expect them to win stuff.

[PHeffernan]

Doubler

[Eyrie]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

But we still beat them fair and square two weeks ago.

[Cat Stanton]

And has been like this for as long as I can remember.
I don't support Hibs because I expect them to win stuff.

Well, neither do I. It's just what you do. But after 50 odd years, this kind of thing - the financial gulf - does feel waring.

Sorry - it's been a long day (of having to listen to plastic irishness) and I'm tired...

[Glory Lurker]

BBC on insta saying that Celtc have only lost one of their last 90 (ninety) home domestic matches (a yam win in 23). It's no even sport there. No wonder there's no atmosphere.

[PHeffernan]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

It's capitalism, what's mines is mine and what's yours is yours ...





but will soon be mine.

Hell, Celtic PLC have even monetised Irishness to the max. Utter genius.

They have no intension of sharing with anyone, anytime soon.
They will keep on keeping on, driving our teams heads into the dust season after season before self proclaiming their wonderfulness.
I ignore Celgers unless they are playing in Europe. If they succeed at that I give them praise.

Scottish Football needs a trophy for 3rd.
3rd is my league winner.

[Donegal Hibby]

its the wee things that get me... iredale gets booked after 25 then he cant tackle again bowie gets booked and he cant be as physical again the sellik left back gets booked in 93 mins they dont need any help

I agree . All to often when we have played the OF over the years there’s been an eagerness to book our players while they escape for similar offences.

Today as you mention Iredale gets booked for a handball and yet Jota ( I think ) escapes what looked like a handball …

Bowie was clattered a few times today without any action taken but the minute Bowie does one he gets spoken to by Walsh .. yellow cards have a big effect on games .

[matty_f]

Celtic on course for their 6th treble in 10 years. I’d suggest you’re right.

It's a one horse race.
Even if you take Champions League money out the equation, if we sold our Easter Rd every week, we'd still only take 1/3 of the gate receipts Celtic take.

When you throw the European money, prize money, merchandise etc they're so far in front of us - with the gap widening year on year, that it's a freakishly good result to have beaten them a couple of weeks ago.

We were in the game in so much that if we'd managed to create a chance and score it, we'd potentially have taken it to extra time, but the reality is we didn't really lay a glove on them and a good performance from our goalkeeper stopped it being a very humbling afternoon.

Celtic are, and have been for some years now, streets ahead of every other club in the country.

[Glory Lurker]

I agree . All to often when we have played the OF over the years there’s been an eagerness to book our players while they escape for similar offences.

Today as you mention Iredale gets booked for a handball and yet Jota ( I think ) escapes what looked like a handball …

Bowie was clattered a few times today without any action taken but the minute Bowie does he gets spoken to by Walsh .. yellow cards have a big effect on games .

Unbelievable the Celtc boy didn't get booked. Not that it was a booking but his arm was miles further out than Iredale 's. Precedent was set with Jack's card, surely.

[SHODAN]

I'm pretty sure I will never see us win at Parkhead in the flesh.

[matty_f]

its the wee things that get me... iredale gets booked after 25 then he cant tackle again bowie gets booked and he cant be as physical again the sellik left back gets booked in 93 mins they dont need any help

There's a thread on Twitter about this - Celtic just don't get players booked to the same extent as the rest of us. It's a disgrace and it's backed up in numbers, so isn't some perception with Hibs-tinted specs on.

Nick Walsh does not treat Hibs fairly full stop.

https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1898552148188615127?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

[davym7062]

There's a thread on Twitter about this - Celtic just don't get players booked to the same extent as the rest of us. It's a disgrace and it's backed up in numbers, so isn't some perception with Hibs-tinted specs on.

Nick Walsh does not treat Hibs fairly full stop.

https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1898552148188615127?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

but when the stats are looked at he booked 3 hibs palyers and 2 celtic players so ok he was fare,,,,,,,, the celtic player got booked in 94 mins ffs its a ***** sham

[wookie70]

:agree: If Cadden hadn't got injured, or Obita had tracked Kuhn at the first goal, we may just have took the game to extra time.

Nicky Cadden's injury was a turning point. I thought we were holding our own after a whirlwind start from Celtc. When we needed to get back into the game and SDG made the last subs I think he got it wrong. Chris Cadden was burst and to me he should have brought O'Hora on for Cadden and put Miller on the right. I suppose Elie was worth a go but I would rather have had Myko on for Elie too.

Our shape was so good up until Cadden had to go off. After that I think we are weakened in attack and defense on the left with Obita coming in. I can't fault Nectar for his attitude and application but he had a day to forget and everyone has to turn up to have a chance to beat Celt at home

[HibeeMackenzie]

If Bowie scores at 0-0 or hoilett finds Gayle with his pass just before the second we’re looking at a different game. They are very beatable

[007]

There's a thread on Twitter about this - Celtic just don't get players booked to the same extent as the rest of us. It's a disgrace and it's backed up in numbers, so isn't some perception with Hibs-tinted specs on.

Nick Walsh does not treat Hibs fairly full stop.

https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1898552148188615127?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

Interesting stats. Shame they don't include the average minute for each teams bookings. Wouldn't suprise me if Celtic's were a lot later than the rest.

We committed 5 fouls and got 3 bookings (23, 28 & 48th minutes). They committed 9 fouls and got 1 booking, in the 86th minute.

[The Harp Awakes]

... The game was lost before it even began. How much did Septic/Celtc get from their recent Champions League run - £35m or thereabouts? To add to their existing millions. It's a crap, skewed, league.

Except we beat them 2 werks ago deservedly.

We didn't turn up today apart from our GK. That's the difference.

[we are hibs]

There's a thread on Twitter about this - Celtic just don't get players booked to the same extent as the rest of us. It's a disgrace and it's backed up in numbers, so isn't some perception with Hibs-tinted specs on.

Nick Walsh does not treat Hibs fairly full stop.

https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1898552148188615127?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1AA scandalous booking for a Hibs player for handball (that came off his thigh onto his hand) then about 10 minutes later no booking for a Celtic player handballing it.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[CentreLine]

Celtic are, and have been for some years now, streets ahead of every other club in the country.

That is so true. We used to say “if only the Old Firm would b****r off from Scottish football it would be anyone’s league”. Well right now it’s only Celtic leaving would be needed to level the playing field

[basehibby]

What's the point of Scotland competing in the World Cup?

[Donegal Hibby]

Unbelievable the Celtc boy didn't get booked. Not that it was a booking but his arm was miles further out than Iredale 's. Precedent was set with Jack's card, surely.

If Iredale’s is a booking then I think Jota should have been booked too …

I don’t know if I’m right with any of this but I think when Campbell was booked ( Stewart ) more or less implied it was a booking but when the Celtic player was booked for something similar he stated it wasn’t a booking, maybe as I said , I’m wrong on this but would be interested if someone remembered it ! ….

Personally I always like to see referees keep their cards in their pockets as I think they have become to card happy and in the case of an underdog against a big team it usually the underdog that receives more which tends to put them at a disadvantage …

Only one we had today that I thought was a yellow was Triantis but I do think if Walsh was consistent they would have picked up a couple of more too .

[DH1875]

What's the point of Scotland competing in the World Cup?

Exactly.
I've said it before but if it sucks being a Hibs fan then it must really suck being a Clyde fan, Clydebank fan, Airdrie fan, Partick Thistle fan, Dumbarton fan, Hamilton ran, Morton fan, Queens Park fan, Spartans fan, Edinburgh City fan, St Mirren fan etc.....
To me it's not what being a Hibs fan is all about. If it was, I'd just be a celtic fan.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

I think that we would have beaten them at Parkhead earlier in the season if Myko hadn't missed that run of sitters.

[matty_f]

If Iredale’s is a booking then I think Jota should have been booked too …

I don’t know if I’m right with any of this but I think when Campbell was booked ( Stewart ) more or less implied it was a booking but when the Celtic player was booked for something similar he stated it wasn’t a booking, maybe as I said , I’m wrong on this but would be interested if someone remembered it ! ….

Personally I always like to see referees keep their cards in their pockets as I think they have become to card happy and in the case of an underdog against a big team it usually the underdog that receives more which tends to put them at a disadvantage …

Only one we had today that I thought was a yellow was Triantis but I do think if Walsh was consistent they would have picked up a couple of more too .
The problem is the referee did keep his cards in his pocket, but only for one team.

And we can see from his stats that he's got a pattern of doing this when we play them.

[Jones28]

I'm still perplexed at the bookings we received yesterday. I don't think there was a yellow card in the game but the 3 we received were a joke.

So 2 midfielders and a defender booked and unable to play the game the way they should have been able to.

[Cropley10]

England had never had a champion across four successive seasons until Manchester City, Bayern Munich won the Bundesliga 11 seasons straight in Germany, Juventus did nine in Italy, Paris Saint-Germain ten in 12 in France. Yet in smaller countries the effects of UEFA money are even more devastating: BATE Borisov in Belarus won 13 straight titles, Olympiacos collected 22 in 28 in Greece, Qarabag ten of 11 in Azerbaijan, the same for RB Salzburg in Austria. Sheriff Tiraspol have taken all but three titles in Moldova since 2000-01 and Ludogorets Razgrad won their first Bulgarian title in 2011-12 and no other club has won it since.

The unintended consequences of UCL...

[Alfred E Newman]

2016 was the point. Last Sunday was the point.
If Celtic add the cup to this season's walk over in the league , what exactly does that actually mean to their fans? They might briefly sample some of the euphoria if they beat Rangers in a final but other than that, they will never ever experience the elation that we had in 2016.

[gbhibby]

The handball that merited a booking was the same as the VAR review that did not merit a penalty in the Hearts St Mirren game the ref was probably directed by his lino about this.

[Donegal Hibby]

The problem is the referee did keep his cards in his pocket, but only for one team.

And we can see from his stats that he's got a pattern of doing this when we play them.


I don’t think he’s the only one though , remember McLean in the cup game at ER last season against the huns when he totally turned the game in their favour? .

Yesterday Iredale’s was never a booking in a million years and Campbell he could have let go with a warning which would have been enough as there didn’t look to be a lot in it .

Bowie and Campbell were clattered into a few times by Trusty and Vickers , Trusty had at least 3 fouls but didn’t receive a caution and yet our players were picking up yellows for their first offences..

I did think the Triantis one was a yellow but again the ‘ potential red card check’ I thought it was like they were looking for a reason to send one of our players off..

Yesterday just summed up again how unbalanced/ biased the officiating is in games when playing the OF .

[NAE NOOKIE]

And has been like this for as long as I can remember.
I don't support Hibs because I expect them to win stuff.

Exactly where I'm at as well :agree:

As for the OP ..... The whole thing was summed up yesterday really. 50,000 home fans and the place was hardly bouncing, in fact the loudest noise they made was when one of their players made a mistake. The truth is they expected to win every single time they play home or away domestically and lets face it they are rarely disappointed, it's only their derby or Europe that wakes them up.

Said it before, the most impressive thing about Scottish football is that fans still turn out to support their clubs in spite of the environment they are forced to operate in. I got the train from Galashiels to the game yesterday and there was as many Celtic fans on it as there was Hibs fans, even though the Borders should be a natural catchment area for Edinburgh's big clubs. That sums up the massive problem we have in this country where half the population who claim to support a club support two clubs who for a lot of them have absolutely nothing to do with the area they come from. Is it any wonder they have such financial dominance.

The race for 3rd and an outside chance of winning a cup every 10 years or so is the real Scottish football and that's the truth of it. There's 10 teams in our top league, with the other two being an utter irrelevance to it apart from the chance of an unlikely bonus point or three in the race for 3rd like Hibs and St Mirren get a fortnight ago.

[Pagan Hibernia]

2016 was the point. Last Sunday was the point.
If Celtic add the cup to this season's walk over in the league , what exactly does that actually mean to their fans? They might briefly sample some of the euphoria if they beat Rangers in a final but other than that, they will never ever experience the elation that we had in 2016.

When celtic win a trophy they have moved on by 9pm that night. Maybe the following morning if it's against Rangers.

Next time we win a trophy my boss knows not to expect me for a week.

[WeAreHibs]

2016 was the point. Last Sunday was the point.
If Celtic add the cup to this season's walk over in the league , what exactly does that actually mean to their fans? They might briefly sample some of the euphoria if they beat Rangers in a final but other than that, they will never ever experience the elation that we had in 2016.

100%

Said that to son yesterday when some of their fans were leaving before final whistle. They'll never experience the sheer elation that we do and I wouldn't swap it for anything.

[Bishop Hibee]

BBC on insta saying that Celtc have only lost one of their last 90 (ninety) home domestic matches (a yam win in 23). It's no even sport there. No wonder there's no atmosphere.

This shows the enormity of the task yesterday. There’s lots of ‘if only’s’ on this thread but the reality is our players aren’t consistently good enough to play the killer pass or consistently covert their single chance of the game. It’s a testament to how much the club means to the fans that 7,000 turned up.

The sooner Rantic go to a European league the better in my opinion.

[Cat Stanton]

I agree with just about everyone's responses to my OP. Apologies for the defeatist attitude - I was just feeling, well, quite defeatist after a defeat.

But all these points are well made and fair. Onwards and upwards.

God, I despise Celtc and their fans 'though...

[gbhibby]

We lost due to not pressing high enough and giving them way too much time on the ball the first goal two defenders being asleep.
There was also times in possession our passing was poor. We were in a strange position yesterday that if we beat them we had to win the cup to ensure that we could get a longer run in Europe next season. Can't see Celtic getting beat by any of the other semi finalists. So every league game from now in is a cup final to remain in 3rd place.

[HoboHarry]

This shows the enormity of the task yesterday. There’s lots of ‘if only’s’ on this thread but the reality is our players aren’t consistently good enough to play the killer pass or consistently covert their single chance of the game. It’s a testament to how much the club means to the fans that 7,000 turned up.

The sooner Rantic go to a European league the better in my opinion.

Hopefully take those ugly chunts from Govan with them at the same time.

[Nutmegged]

This shows the enormity of the task yesterday. There’s lots of ‘if only’s’ on this thread but the reality is our players aren’t consistently good enough to play the killer pass or consistently covert their single chance of the game. It’s a testament to how much the club means to the fans that 7,000 turned up.

The sooner Rantic go to a European league the better in my opinion.

I doubt this will ever genuinely happen, but if Celtic and Rangers ever did go to some kind of European League, I'm pretty sure Celtic B and Rangers B would be granted access into the SPFL proper, and would be eligible to climb the ranks with no restrictions, the SFA would still want an Old Firm presence in Scottish Football and before long their B teams would he top of the shop, their fans are too familiar with success to be able to handle the harsh realities that come with joining a more competitive league.

[Ozyhibby]

Unless you introduce salary caps then it will always be this way. The odd cup win every 10-20 years and that’s about it.


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[Pagan Hibernia]

Unless you introduce salary caps then it will always be this way. The odd cup win every 10-20 years and that’s about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We should have had two or three in the space of 5 years though. That's the annoying thing. We don't help ourselves by blowing finals and semi finals that we should really be expecting to win.

[Nutmegged]

Unless you introduce salary caps then it will always be this way. The odd cup win every 10-20 years and that’s about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I doubt a salary cap would make much difference, the cap would still be far higher than anything we pay, it might just mean they wouldn't be taking as many punts on the likes of Kwon.

[Ozyhibby]

I doubt a salary cap would make much difference, the cap would still be far higher than anything we pay, it might just mean they wouldn't be taking as many punts on the likes of Kwon.

The cap would be whatever the clubs decide themselves. Why would clubs vote for a cap they can’t reach anyway?

It won’t happen though. Too many people love the current duopoly whether they support them or not.


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[HoboHarry]

I doubt this will ever genuinely happen, but if Celtic and Rangers ever did go to some kind of European League, I'm pretty sure Celtic B and Rangers B would be granted access into the SPFL proper, and would be eligible to climb the ranks with no restrictions, the SFA would still want an Old Firm presence in Scottish Football and before long their B teams would he top of the shop, their fans are too familiar with success to be able to handle the harsh realities that come with joining a more competitive league.
Couple of drawbacks from the uglies viewpoint would be they would need a budget for their B teams superior to Hibs, Hearts et al to be able to win the league and they'd be asking their fans to double up on match day costs by attending games both domestically and from Europe. Not sure Celtic would carry that extra cost and Sevco couldn't even if they wanted to. Not to mention additional policing, hospitality costs etc etc

[Nutmegged]

The cap would be whatever the clubs decide themselves. Why would clubs vote for a cap they can’t reach anyway?

It won’t happen though. Too many people love the current duopoly whether they support them or not.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't see how any kind of blanket cap would be accepted, where does it end, bring Celtic in line with ours, or bring everyone elses in line with a Livingston or a St Johnstone, I'm not even sure that would be enforceable, the best I think anyone could hope for is a percentage of turnover.

[gbhibby]

To have a chance of beating Celtic:

1. You need to be at home
2. Ideally they need to have played midweek
3. They need to have an off day/be tired.
No, you score one or more goals than them.

[Nutmegged]

Couple of drawbacks from the uglies viewpoint would be they would need a budget for their B teams superior to Hibs, Hearts et al to be able to win the league and they'd be asking their fans to double up on match day costs by attending games both domestically and from Europe. Not sure Celtic would carry that extra cost and Sevco couldn't even if they wanted to. Not to mention additional policing, hospitality costs etc etc

Yeah, the B teams wouldn't be eligible for Europe so there wouldn't be the same desire to spend big money, so I wouldn't imagine there would be guys like Engels or Idah, but I think they would sign up guys like McCowan and even the likes of O'Riley, they signed him for relative peanuts, if they did that with the view to sending him onto their A team eventually, it might be really beneficial to them.

[Donegal Hibby]

No, you score one or more goals than them.

I wish it was as simple as that now 😞

[WhileTheChief..]

Celtic were a basket case before Fergus McCann showed up.

Back then, absolutely nobody envisaged Celtic winning the league, let alone dominating the game for decades.

After Celtic Park was redeveloped they pretty much sold out their stadium every game.

How did they manage that?

It's nothing to do with sectarianism or playing up their Irishness, that was in full flow back in the 80s!

So what did they start doing differently from before McCann arrived?

I don't blame Celtic at all. It's hardly their fault they have so many fans and make so much money compared to the rest of us.

If anything, we should all be aiming to emulate what they did, no? Maybe we are already I suppose, it took McCann five years to turn them around.

[Keith_M]

I agree with just about everyone's responses to my OP. Apologies for the defeatist attitude - I was just feeling, well, quite defeatist after a defeat.

But all these points are well made and fair. Onwards and upwards.

God, I despise Celtc and their fans 'though...



No problem mate, it gets to us all

:aok:

[makaveli1875]

Celtic were a basket case before Fergus McCann showed up.

Back then, absolutely nobody envisaged Celtic winning the league, let alone dominating the game for decades.

After Celtic Park was redeveloped they pretty much sold out their stadium every game.

How did they manage that?

It's nothing to do with sectarianism or playing up their Irishness, that was in full flow back in the 80s!

So what did they start doing differently from before McCann arrived?

I don't blame Celtic at all. It's hardly their fault they have so many fans and make so much money compared to the rest of us.

If anything, we should all be aiming to emulate what they did, no? Maybe we are already I suppose, it took McCann five years to turn them around.

When McCann came in they started spending massive amounts of cash , signing world class players like DiCanio , Cadete , Van Hooijdonk etc .

[PHeffernan]

There's a thread on Twitter about this - Celtic just don't get players booked to the same extent as the rest of us. It's a disgrace and it's backed up in numbers, so isn't some perception with Hibs-tinted specs on.

Nick Walsh does not treat Hibs fairly full stop.

https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1898552148188615127?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A

Don't have X so haven't read the verbals in the report but saw two graphics showing fouls per yellow cards at home this season.
Importantly fouls are not equal in severity so a big flaw off the bat.
Celtic have the best players and dominate the possession stats so face more desperate attempts to stop them.
Accordingly I would expect many more desperate and cheating fouls against them than by them hence many more yellow cards sustained by their opponents.
In essence, players playing at the max trying to keep Celtic out are bound to sustain far more yellow cards than a Celtic team dominating possession and importantly playing within themselves so what the report is really confirming is how much better they are than any other team in the league.

The author thinks he has uncovered some great anomaly and the Scottish football conspiracy theorists will lap it up but the truth is he is merely confirming what he could have been told before he crunched the numbers.

[gbhibby]

When McCann came in they started spending massive amounts of cash , signing world class players like DiCanio , Cadete , Van Hooijdonk etc .
Those three were not world class players nowhere near it.

[Libby Hibby]

When McCann came in they started spending massive amounts of cash , signing world class players like DiCanio , Cadete , Van Hooijdonk etc .

World class 😂😂

[Ozyhibby]

Those three were not world class players nowhere near it.

They were better than Wayne Biggins and co though. The big stadium allowed them to outspend everyone else.


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[Paulie Walnuts]

Can't see the report but would suggest it's to do with player quality. Celtic have the best players and dominate the possession stats so face more and more desperate attempts to stop them

In yesterdays game our team were trying to hold on to the tigers tale for 90 minutes.
Hibs players playing at the max trying to keep them out are bound to sustain more yellow cards than a Celtic team playing within themselves.
37% possession for Hibs yesterday and again you expect the team without the ball to receive more yellow cards.

:agree:

Without analysing every foul it doesn’t tell us all that much.

For example celtic play the overwhelming majority of the game in and around the opponents box. You’re much more likely to concede fouls that draw yellow and red cards in those areas if you’re the defensive team. You’re also as you say making much more desperate attempts to tackle guys like Kuhn, Jota etc than you are trying to tackle guys at non Old Firm teams.

Celtic on the other side of the coin, are largely making fouls against inferior players, unlikely to be as desperate, and likely more in attacking areas than others are against them. Fouls in attacking areas are less likely to draw a yellow card.

It’s no surprise that the teams that have the biggest differentials in fouls allowed per yellow between themselves and their opponents are the 3 best teams in the league.

[gbhibby]

Celtic had to rise to the challenge of a free spending Rangers and nearly went bust in the process. Their fans rallied round as they couldn't let Rangers have all the success. They opened the biscuit tin when Martin O'Neil was appointed. The arse cheeks tap into the cancer that is bigotry in this country and a lot of their support is garnered from other parts of Scotland and The Island of Ireland. I remember the times when The New Firm were successful and the crowds of 15000 at both stadiums. Celtic have been in the Champions league when the money has been huge. If you said what's the point to Fergie or Jim McLean you would have a sore backside from the door hitting your backside on the way out the office.

[HibbyKeith]

It's always going to be a tough ask to win there when they've conceded 3 goals in 14 games. As others have said, you just dont want to draw them at parkhead, the stats are scary.

Home Form
Played 14
Won 13
Drawn 1
Lost 0
Scored 48
Conceded 3
G/D +45

Away Form
Played 15
Won 11
Drawn 2
Lost 2
Scored 39
Conceded 14
G/D +25

[Donegal Hibby]

The stats on the fouls was they had 9 and we have 5 and yet they had 1 booking to our 3 .. takes a bit of figuring out that one :confused:

[PHeffernan]

:agree:

Without analysing every foul it doesn’t tell us all that much.

For example celtic play the overwhelming majority of the game in and around the opponents box. You’re much more likely to concede fouls that draw yellow and red cards in those areas if you’re the defensive team. You’re also as you say making much more desperate attempts to tackle guys like Kuhn, Jota etc than you are trying to tackle guys at non Old Firm teams.

Celtic on the other side of the coin, are largely making fouls against inferior players, unlikely to be as desperate, and likely more in attacking areas than others are against them. Fouls in attacking areas are less likely to draw a yellow card.

It’s no surprise that the teams that have the biggest differentials in fouls allowed per yellow between themselves and their opponents are the 3 best teams in the league.

I amended my reply to the following after managing to find two graphics from the 'report'

"Don't have X so haven't read the verbals in the report but saw two graphics showing fouls per yellow card at home this season.
Importantly fouls are not equal in severity so a big flaw off the bat.
Celtic have the best players and dominate the possession stats so face more desperate attempts to stop them.
Accordingly I would expect many more desperate and cheating fouls against them than by them hence many more yellow cards sustained by their opponents.
In essence, players playing at the max trying to keep Celtic out are bound to sustain far more yellow cards than a Celtic team dominating possession and importantly playing within themselves so what the report is really confirming is how much better they are than any other team in the league.

The author thinks he has uncovered some great anomaly and the Scottish football conspiracy theorists will lap it up but the truth is he is merely confirming what he could have been told before he crunched the numbers."

[Alfred E Newman]

100%

Said that to son yesterday when some of their fans were leaving before final whistle. They'll never experience the sheer elation that we do and I wouldn't swap it for anything.

It's nothing new. I always remember leaving the 1972 final before the end to escape the carnage on the terracing only to be faced with Celtic fans outside who had also left early despite their team leading 6-1!

[Viva_Palmeiras]

You have to ask - so Aberdeen when you voted to keep the Uglies Grip on the premier league voting structure - just what did you get in return? That was the moment. Why would they do that?

[Ronniekirk]

We out sung them the whole game We defended really well till the first goal where players inexplicably seemed to get caught ball watching and were too slow to react when smith made a good save
I don’t think they were at thier best yesterday but they know how to play possession football and tree opposition out
Was dissapointed we couldn’ make more of our forward play in the final third Poorvpadding and wrong decision making meant we created nothing in second half despite having more attacks
I didn’t expect to win thier record at home speaks for itself
But Cadden going off was a blow and and few key players weren’t on top form which made a very difficult task impossible

[Paulie Walnuts]

I amended my reply to the following after managing to find two graphics from the 'report'

"Don't have X so haven't read the verbals in the report but saw two graphics showing fouls per yellow card at home this season.
Importantly fouls are not equal in severity so a big flaw off the bat.
Celtic have the best players and dominate the possession stats so face more desperate attempts to stop them.
Accordingly I would expect many more desperate and cheating fouls against them than by them hence many more yellow cards sustained by their opponents.
In essence, players playing at the max trying to keep Celtic out are bound to sustain far more yellow cards than a Celtic team dominating possession and importantly playing within themselves so what the report is really confirming is how much better they are than any other team in the league.

The author thinks he has uncovered some great anomaly and the Scottish football conspiracy theorists will lap it up but the truth is he is merely confirming what he could have been told before he crunched the numbers."

:agree:

Completely agree.

[tamig]

The stats on the fouls was they had 9 and we have 5 and yet they had 1 booking to our 3 .. takes a bit of figuring out that one :confused:

It doesn’t really. There are different types of fouls that can result in different outcomes. Not every foul is bookable.

[HendoDelivered]

No, you score one or more goals than them.

No quite as simple as that though is it? You need a lot of things in your favour for that to happen.

[Donegal Hibby]

It doesn’t really. There are different types of fouls that can result in different outcomes. Not every foul is bookable.

That’s true but there are also similar type fouls that end up with different outcomes too , yesterday if Trusty had been our player there’s no way he escapes without picking up a yellow card in that game IMO .

[matty_f]

I amended my reply to the following after managing to find two graphics from the 'report'

"Don't have X so haven't read the verbals in the report but saw two graphics showing fouls per yellow card at home this season.
Importantly fouls are not equal in severity so a big flaw off the bat.
Celtic have the best players and dominate the possession stats so face more desperate attempts to stop them.
Accordingly I would expect many more desperate and cheating fouls against them than by them hence many more yellow cards sustained by their opponents.
In essence, players playing at the max trying to keep Celtic out are bound to sustain far more yellow cards than a Celtic team dominating possession and importantly playing within themselves so what the report is really confirming is how much better they are than any other team in the league.

The author thinks he has uncovered some great anomaly and the Scottish football conspiracy theorists will lap it up but the truth is he is merely confirming what he could have been told before he crunched the numbers."
That doesn't wash over the volume of games looked at, imho. It didn't allow for other teams than Celtic having better players than other teams - is it was simply the case that players are more desperately trying to stop Celtic players then you would expect the fouls per card to be on a sliding scale from best team to worse but for most of the other teams there's a fraction of a foul/yellow difference.

This data shows other top sides who you would reasonably expect to be broadly comparable with Celtic in terms of their quality v the opposition: https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1899207020529729920?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A - Celtic are the outliers here as well.

Of course not all fouls are equal but with the volume of data and with it taken across many matches where there will be significant differences in quality of the two teams facing up, it negates the not-all-fouls-are-bookings point.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That doesn't wash over the volume of games looked at, imho. It didn't allow for other teams than Celtic having better players than other teams - is it was simply the case that players are more desperately trying to stop Celtic players then you would expect the fouls per card to be on a sliding scale from best team to worse but for most of the other teams there's a fraction of a foul/yellow difference.

This data shows other top sides who you would reasonably expect to be brutally comparable with Celtic in terms of their quality v the opposition: https://x.com/whistlereport24/status/1899207020529729920?s=46&t=9ECFsSDsGgie80A2m3HH1A - Celtic are the outliers here as well.

Of course not all fouls are equal but with the volume of data and with it taken across many matches where there will be significant differences in quality of the two teams facing up, it negates the not-all-fouls-are-bookings point.

I’m not sure that’s the case. There’s an absolute chasm in terms of quality between Celtic and the rest of the league and then a further chasm between rangers and the rest. Once you start getting down to the differences between Dundee United and Ross County etc then the higher quality side of things becomes less important because it’s much, much closer and style of play etc becomes more of a factor imo. It’s not all just about possession, it’s a mix of possession, areas of the park where teams have the ball, style of play and just sheer quality in comparison to the teams you’re playing against.

Use goal difference as an example. Celtic have a +70 goal difference. After that, the closest to them on that list is Bayern on +51 with PSG and Barca being +46. There’s about half that list have goal differences that are a fraction of Celtics. That to me tells a story as to how much more dominant the likes of Celtic are compared to the others on that list. They also pick up significantly more points per game than any other team on that list and the average amount of possession they have is significantly higher than the 2nd highest on that list, never mind some of the sides lower down who average nearly 15% less.

The link you’ve provided for me doesn’t disprove that theory because none of them are close to being comparable with Celtic in terms of domestic dominance. Celtic are further ahead of the pack than any of those other teams listed are in their leagues and in most cases they’re ahead by a fair margin imo. Looking at that list, if you had to pick one of those teams who were a cert to win their league at the start of each season, I’d hazard a guess the vast majority of people would pick Celtic. That is reflected exactly as I’d expect it to be in the stats imo. They’re the most dominant team domestically in Europe.

[matty_f]

I’m not sure that’s the case. There’s an absolute chasm in terms of quality between Celtic and the rest of the league and then a further chasm between rangers and the rest. Once you start getting down to the differences between Dundee United and Ross County etc then the higher quality side of things becomes less important because it’s much, much closer and style of play etc becomes more of a factor imo. It’s not all just about possession, it’s a mix of possession, areas of the park where teams have the ball, style of play and just sheer quality in comparison to the teams you’re playing against.

Use goal difference as an example. Celtic have a +70 goal difference. After that, the closest to them on that list is Bayern on +51 with PSG and Barca being +46. There’s about half that list have goal differences that are a fraction of Celtics. That to me tells a story as to how much more dominant the likes of Celtic are compared to the others on that list.

The link you’ve provided for me doesn’t disprove that theory. Celtic are further ahead of the pack than any of those other teams listed are in their leagues and in most cases they’re ahead by a fair margin imo. Looking at that list, if you had to pick one of those teams who were a cert to win their league at the start of each season, I’d hazard a guess the vast majority of people would pick Celtic. That is reflected exactly as I’d expect it to be in the stats imo. They’re the most dominant team domestically in Europe.

I think you'll struggle to get an exact like for like comparison but I tend to accept the data rather than go on the basis that Celtic have an intangible quality or qualities that mean their fouls are fundamentally different from the rest of the league's.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think you'll struggle to get an exact like for like comparison but I tend to accept the data rather than go on the basis that Celtic have an intangible quality or qualities that mean their fouls are fundamentally different from the rest of the league's.

Apologies, I’ve made a few edits to my post that will have been missed in your quote but yes, you absolutely won’t get a like for like comparison. Celtic are much, much further ahead of their competition than any of the other sides on that list. Every statistical indicator points to that being the case, whether it’s trophies, points per game, goal difference or turnover in comparison to their competition. That’s reflected in the stats for me and simply using the best teams in other leagues as comparison is a false equivalence imo. There can’t really be any genuine worthwhile comparison made in football that i can think of.

I’m also accepting of the data. My interpretation of that data though is that teams who are miles ahead of their competitors generally don’t have to commit as many desperate fouls leading to yellows. When your average goal difference per game is +2.4 in your favour then there becomes less need to throw yourself into tackles that will lead to bookings to get the job done. They also generally go into half time in the lead (20 half time leads this season) and the majority of the time that lead at half time has been by at least 2 goals. By that point you don’t have to make the tackles that lead to bookings and suspensions further down the line, at least not as desperately as teams who are drawing games, winning by 1 goal etc at half time and are kicking and scratching their way to wins/draws.

You can also throw in the experience Celtic have. If you use our starting line up versus theirs from the weekend for example, they average 358 appearances to our 209. They started with 9 full internationals to our 4 with a manager who has managed 785 games to our managers 39 and they had 2 EPL winners starting. They’ll know a lot better than the rest of the league what challenges they’ll get away with and what ones they won’t.

The further ahead of your competition you get, the more pronounced it becomes statistically. That goes for both attacking and defensive situations, as evidenced by the fact Celtic have the highest xG per shot taken in the league, the highest pass completion rate, Schmeichel has the highest save percentage because he faces shots with the lowest xG of any keeper in the league etc. It’s for the same reason they pick up the least bookings per foul, they’re good enough to not have to commit to things in desperation in the same way the other teams do whilst forcing others into desperation against them.

[MacGruber]

Understand the OP's point and the frustration. They are extremely difficult to beat at theirs of course and there is the financial gulf between them and the rest. That said, we never played well enough in the game. If you are to beat them you need to be on your A game and hope they are off it. We never managed the first part and never brought our A game so went as expected. We were good off the ball but poor on it. Triantis (who has been superb) played 3 or 4 balls straight out the park under no pressure with easy passes on. He wasn't alone.
All said though we were still in the cup tie in the 92nd minute. Could have had a late leveller if Hoilett had picked out that pass to Gayle (not sure how beneficial extra time would have been though as we had some walking wounded by that point)