The Derby Mentality

[Pretty Boy]

For years it was always said Hearts 'wanted it more' in the derby. I never really bought that; you could see how much it meant to the players when we won them and even this season in the one we failed to win the subs were all over the pitch celebrating our goal.

There was a mental block in the fixture though. As fans we went in anxious. I'd wager most on here remember 22 in a row, the younger generation have 5-1 or a couple of semi final defeats. I think that fed through to the players and management; they inherited all our collective scars and it became an ordeal. There were all kind of weird coping strategies. People believing they could use ridiculous bravado as some kind of supernatural force.

I think we might just about be over it though. For as bad as we were in the 1st half today I never feared we were in for a beating in the 2nd half. I said to my dad at HT getting into the break at 1-1 made me confident we had a real shot as I didn't believe we would be that bad in the 2nd half. In the past I'd have fully expected Hearts to go on and win by a couple. This Hibs side is built a bit different and it was Hearts who cracked today. They fell apart when we sussed them out, it felt like a matter of time until we got the winner and the big push you expect after they went behind never came. It feels like something that has been evolving for a while. Lennon and Stubbs teams never seemed to fear the derby either. Aye they lost them but rarely because we just capitulated. Our younger fans just won't have the same scars many of us do. A boy or girl of 12-16 will only really have known the derby as being fairly even. They would have been too young to understand 2012 and will have seen us win as many as we have lost. They'll go in thinking it's a 50/50.

Hearts aren't a bad side right now but Hibs are better and the derby results this season reflect that. In terms of both ability and mentality today we deserved it over the piece. Long may this continue.

[matty_f]

I did a preview on a Scottish football podcast yesterday morning and said similar - I grew up with Miller‘s Derby record and it was horrendous, and for years there seemed to be a hoodoo that we just couldn’t shake.

I would dread the fixture, you knew something would bounce in off one of their backsides after we’d hammered them for 90 minutes. It’s just what happened.

My son’s 21 and never feels like that, his derby experience is much better and I dare say that Hearts might have a few more wins over the time he’s been going to the football but not to the point where it feels like they’ve got a hold on the fixture.

In recent years we’ve had wins at Tiny, been the ones to come back from 2-0 down on more than one occasion, grabbed the late goal etc.

It’s a game I look forward to. They’re beatable and we’re are not found wanting for desire/wanting it more/knowing what the fixture is all about etc.

Today we had Josh Campbell as the only “one of our own” on the pitch and you’d never know. That win meant every bit as much to Miller or Iredale or Obita or Smith etc as it did to us in the stands.

[JohnM1875]

Not about mentality right enough, but is there a single player you’d take from them right now to come in and improve us? Baningime maybe? But even then he ain’t starting over Triantis.

I’m absolutely loving this Hibs team and back on the mentality point I totally agree. Every player is fighting and covering for their mates if they make a mistake. Every sub is desperate to maintain the level of the player they replaced.

We’re just ****ing class.

[SHODAN]

The first half was a classic ***** Hibs derby performance. We were nervous as **** and they wanted it more.

The second half was the exact opposite. I have no idea what Gray said but it worked, and they showed a meekness from a Hearts derby team that I haven't seen since Cathro.

[Crab apple]

Totally agree about the mentality of this team and there's a real togetherness about them. I'd also add that we look a lot physically stronger than them and we won't be bullied like some previous Hibs teams were.

[K-Zazu]

Not about mentality right enough, but is there a single player you’d take from them right now to come in and improve us? Baningime maybe? But even then he ain’t starting over Triantis.

I’m absolutely loving this Hibs team and back on the mentality point I totally agree. Every player is fighting and covering for their mates if they make a mistake. Every sub is desperate to maintain the level of the player they replaced.

We’re just ****ing class.

Costa Rican Cafu, think he’s worth about 10 million though.

[marinello59]

The first half was a classic ***** Hibs derby performance. We were nervous as **** and they wanted it more.

The second half was the exact opposite. I have no idea what Gray said but it worked, and they showed a meekness from a Hearts derby team that I haven't seen since Cathro.

I said to my son at half time it was down to Gray to win us the game with his half time talk. He got it spot on, we were a different team after the break.

[Fergos]

Beginning to see a side that’s reflective of what SDG was as a player and alot of credit goes to the type of player we have brought in recently. Iredale, N Cadds, NMW etc have a bit of attitude and bite about them.

[JohnM1875]

Beginning to see a side that’s reflective of what SDG was as a player and alot of credit goes to the type of player we have brought in recently. Iredale, N Cadds, NMW etc have a bit of attitude and bite about them.

The players just care. They absolutely get it and I don't doubt for a second that's down to SDG.

[Northernhibee]

Beginning to see a side that’s reflective of what SDG was as a player and alot of credit goes to the type of player we have brought in recently. Iredale, N Cadds, NMW etc have a bit of attitude and bite about them.

That’s been the most impressive thing for me. This squad had a relegation mentality about it for the first few months of the season, folded at the first sign of pressure, mistakes all over the place, and so inconsistent.

SDG, Eddie May, and Liam Craig have turned them into a bunch of snarling winners who put everything on the line for each other in every game.

Huge credit to the players for changing the mindset so much and huge credit to the coaching team for facilitating it.

[Carheenlea]

What we really need to see is some derby thumpings, more so even in just a scoreline sense when sometimes a score doesn’t reflect the actual difference between the sides. We’ve been on the receiving end of many of those ourselves.

Winning derby matches is great, but winning derbies by 2,3 or 4 goals is even better.

[Fergos]

That’s been the most impressive thing for me. This squad had a relegation mentality about it for the first few months of the season, folded at the first sign of pressure, mistakes all over the place, and so inconsistent.

SDG, Eddie May, and Liam Craig have turned them into a bunch of snarling winners who put everything on the line for each other in every game.

Huge credit to the players for changing the mindset so much and huge credit to the coaching team for facilitating it.

Totally agree, credit all round. Things you love to see. Really looking forward to see who SDG brings in over the summer, some more of the same leader types will do nicely.

[HarpOnHibee]

What we really need to see is some derby thumpings, more so even in just a scoreline sense when sometimes a score doesn’t reflect the actual difference between the sides. We’ve been on the receiving end of many of those ourselves.

Winning derby matches is great, but winning derbies by 2,3 or 4 goals is even better.

I'd rather we beat Hearts 1-0 or 2-1 10 times in a row than give them an occasional thumping with a bunch of losses in there. When you go out with the intention of absolutely obliterating a team, you leave yourself open as well. Playing it tight against Hearts is the most effective way of beating them on a consistent basis. We don't need to thump them. We just need to keep beating them over and over again.

[SHODAN]

Didn't Gray grow up one of them?

He certainly gets it.

[He's here!]

For years it was always said Hearts 'wanted it more' in the derby. I never really bought that; you could see how much it meant to the players when we won them and even this season in the one we failed to win the subs were all over the pitch celebrating our goal.

There was a mental block in the fixture though. As fans we went in anxious. I'd wager most on here remember 22 in a row, the younger generation have 5-1 or a couple of semi final defeats. I think that fed through to the players and management; they inherited all our collective scars and it became an ordeal. There were all kind of weird coping strategies. People believing they could use ridiculous bravado as some kind of supernatural force.

I think we might just about be over it though. For as bad as we were in the 1st half today I never feared we were in for a beating in the 2nd half. I said to my dad at HT getting into the break at 1-1 made me confident we had a real shot as I didn't believe we would be that bad in the 2nd half. In the past I'd have fully expected Hearts to go on and win by a couple. This Hibs side is built a bit different and it was Hearts who cracked today. They fell apart when we sussed them out, it felt like a matter of time until we got the winner and the big push you expect after they went behind never came. It feels like something that has been evolving for a while. Lennon and Stubbs teams never seemed to fear the derby either. Aye they lost them but rarely because we just capitulated. Our younger fans just won't have the same scars many of us do. A boy or girl of 12-16 will only really have known the derby as being fairly even. They would have been too young to understand 2012 and will have seen us win as many as we have lost. They'll go in thinking it's a 50/50.

Hearts aren't a bad side right now but Hibs are better and the derby results this season reflect that. In terms of both ability and mentality today we deserved it over the piece. Long may this continue.

That's true to an extent, but if you go right back to the end of the 22 in a row in 1994, I'd hazard a guess that Hearts aren't actually streets ahead in terms of wins since then. The difference is that they've thrown in a significant number of big wins (4-0s, 5-1s) compared to our solitary 6-2. The Hibs wins have tended mostly to be quite narrow, with 2-0 or 3-1 being about as decisive as our wins get. The Mowbray/early Collins team at its best was more than good enough to beat Hearts but we also took some heavy defeats to them.

There's also the fact that the generation of Hearts fans who were brought up on 17 and 22 in a row passed down that mentality to their kids, which is why Hearts fans tend to retain an air of entitlement around the fixture. The Tornadoes had all but been broken up when I started watching Hibs but we were still very much derby top dogs. However, there was a four-year gap between derbies from 1979 to 1983, enough time for younger Hibs fans to have never seen one and unfortunately they were the ones whose mindset was to become one of dread around the fixture.

[Scotty Leither]

We played the second half 10-15 yards further up the park than we did in the first half, so credit to Gray and the managerial team for that. Davey’s also instilled a team spirit that’s been lacking at Easter Road for a long time.

All we can ask from a Hibs team at Easter Road is that we play on the front foot and have a bit of dig about us.

Davey has gave us that and then some. Well done him.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

Many of us grew up in an era when even if Hibs were the better team, they always seemed to get the results. I'm sure there was a stat on here that stated since 2014 the derby record was equal, we have now one win more over that period.

I'd say at the moment, we certainly have a manager who wants to win the derby more than they do, something that hasn't happened since Neil Lennon.

[DIXIHIBS]

Just want to say after a quiet night in the Hibs club....if ye hate the f#ckin jambos clap yer hands...repeat for 20 mins and you get the general idea. Happy days.

[wookie70]

Most of my life I have been a half empty type particularly with Hibs. I don't feel like with this side and was completely confident we couldn't play as bad in the second half and when we scored felt sure we would see it out or score more.

The guy sat next to me of a similar age with as many battle scars was a bag of nerves. I really did feel there was belief in the stands today and the support is right behind this team and manager. They are what no Hibs team ever has an excuse not to be - hardworking, honest and giving everything for the badge. Gayle absolutely epitomised that when he came on and they are a really easy group to support and that isn't just the results.

[HarpOnHibee]

Many of us grew up in an era when even if Hibs were the better team, they always seemed to get the results. I'm sure there was a stat on here that stated since 2014 the derby record was equal, we have now one win more over that period.

I'd say at the moment, we certainly have a manager who wants to win the derby more than they do, something that hasn't happened since Neil Lennon.

Because we weren't the better team. Our style of play was less effective at forcing results. Passing the ball around nicely doesn't win games. Finding a way to get the ball over the opposition goal line while keeping it out at the other end wins games. We're getting the better of Hearts now, not because we're playing a 5D chess passing game but simply because we're bigger, tougher and stronger than they are. We have players who can put effective balls into the box and we have big players in there who can disrupt defences and are clinical in their finishing. Not to mention a defence that puts their bodies on the line when we need them to the most.

We're doing the things that actually matter. That's why we're winning games.

[Mon Dieu4]

I was talking to my pals about this today, nomarly they have a superiorty complex, even of we go up they just expect to come back, that seems to have been knocked out of them now, I've never heared them that quiet before, the tide has turned

The likes of 22 in a row and spawny last minute equalisers or winner means nothing to the current crop

[GreenCastle]

Always think it’s generational thing.

I never fear a derby. I get pissed off if we lose (especially if we u see perform) but never fear them. Actually find Hearts a bit of a comedy club with all the past years relegations, administration, attempt to build a new stand etc.

2016 Cup Final win changed so much too especially beating Hearts on the way.

There is a reason Easter Road and Tynie away end sells out every time - Hibs fans believe they can always win.

Our derby record needs to keep improving but our club / stadium / training ground is all far superior to our Gorgie neighbours.

[Pagan Hibernia]

There's a lovely thread on kickback today bemoaning the fact that Hibs players and manager now have the 'Hearts mentality' in the derby and they don't. It's a heart warming read and I don't disagree.

I'm reluctant to go overboard about this because I really thought we'd cracked it in that 2014-18 period when we went 9 unbeaten and followed it up with the natural order derby with Levein humiliated. But we let it slip again and then had 5 pretty horrible years in the fixture.

I did sense a wee shift actually last season when we completely outplayed them at Tynecastle. We didn't get the win we deserved but it was a rare performance of authority there amd we've backed that up this season. Hopefully Hearts are in for a few tough years in the derby, I certainly hope so. No club deserves it more.

I wouldn't say I'm over my scars just yet though. I was sick with nerves this morning and spent the entire match in a tight knot of tension and anxiety, only released by the final whistle. Derbys simply cannot be good for the health.

[wookie70]

Many of us grew up in an era when even if Hibs were the better team, they always seemed to get the results. I'm sure there was a stat on here that stated since 2014 the derby record was equal, we have now one win more over that period.

I'd say at the moment, we certainly have a manager who wants to win the derby more than they do, something that hasn't happened since Neil Lennon. I don't think he had a winning record in Derbies with Hibs. Lost as many as he won and bottled it with benching McLaren in the last Derby of his best spell

[SHODAN]

I don't think he had a winning record in Derbies with Hibs. Lost as many as he won and bottled it with benching McLaren in the last Derby of his best spell

Yup, it's even. Won three and lost three.

Stubbs is our most recent manager with a winning record.

[Jamesie]

The difference today was that when the board went up to indicate 5 minutes added on, there was no sense of palpable anxiety or stress amongst the Hibs supporters. In Derbies gone by we’d have been on the edge of our seats, whistling etc. That suggested to me that the pendulum has perhaps swung, psychologically, in our favour, for now.

[SHODAN]

The difference today was that when the board went up to indicate 5 minutes added on, there was no sense of palpable anxiety or stress amongst the Hibs supporters. In Derbies gone by we’d have been on the edge of our seats, whistling etc. That suggested to me that the pendulum has perhaps swung, psychologically, in our favour, for now.

John Robertson commented after the game that there was no last minute chance for Hearts unlike in previous derbies. He was really rattled by that.

[He's here!]

What may also have started to turn in our favour from a psychological point of view is that a fair few of the first team have never lost a derby. We've also got a guy like Boyle who has previously known what it's like to dominate the fixture and clearly still loves to stick it to Hearts.

[Carheenlea]

The difference today was that when the board went up to indicate 5 minutes added on, there was no sense of palpable anxiety or stress amongst the Hibs supporters. In Derbies gone by we’d have been on the edge of our seats, whistling etc. That suggested to me that the pendulum has perhaps swung, psychologically, in our favour, for now.

That 5 minutes passed remarkably quickly.

Even the 15 mins after Iredales goal didn’t drag. At no point were we hanging on for dear life.

[He's here!]

Much as we won't like to acknowledge it, a big part of the reason Hearts took a hold of the fixture in the 80s and early 90s was Wallace Mercer. Both clubs were at a pretty dire ebb, Hearts especially, but Mercer was simply a far more effective chairman than Kenny Waugh. While a good deal of it was bravado, he knew how to 'sell' the club and played a key role in turning Hearts' fortunes around with the management team he put in place and the experienced players they brought in to complement the younger guys coming through like Robertson, Bowman and Mackay. I just looked at Mercer's tenure at Tyncecastle and it coincided almost exactly with the 17 and 22 in a row derby runs.

Kenny Waugh actually tried to buy Hearts before he took over Hibs and I've sometimes wondered whether they'd have built that derby dominance had he done so.

[Since452]

Might be wrong but I think that's 1 derby win in 8 for Hearts and not beaten Hibs at Tynecastle for over 2 years.

Most one sided derby in the world though....

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

John Robertson commented after the game that there was no last minute chance for Hearts unlike in previous derbies. He was really rattled by that.

He's spoke in the past about hearts always getting a late chance they'd invariably take. In complete control of the game in added time instead of panic and edginess.

There's certainly no "fear" in this team. Kick on Hibs. If there's another Derby and we beat them (again) at tiny there'll be anarchy

[Dashing Bob S]

The biggest fear we have is not being very good, or a little bit boring.

They don't mind that at all. There biggest fear is being our bitches.

They can now consider that fear manifested.

[GreenCastle]

I would also like to mention the Hearts league cup mentality.

Amazing so many of the Hearts fanbase have never seen them win the league cup..it’s actually hilarious.

[PatHead]

I would also like to mention the Hearts league cup mentality.

Amazing so many Hearts fans have never seen them win the league cup..it’s actually hilarious.

Think you should say so few Hearts supporters have seen them win it. Pretty much need to be almost 70 to remember it.

Only 22,761 days ago.

[Not In The Know]

Much as we won't like to acknowledge it, a big part of the reason Hearts took a hold of the fixture in the 80s and early 90s was Wallace Mercer. Both clubs were at a pretty dire ebb, Hearts especially, but Mercer was simply a far more effective chairman than Kenny Waugh. While a good deal of it was bravado, he knew how to 'sell' the club and played a key role in turning Hearts' fortunes around with the management team he put in place and the experienced players they brought in to complement the younger guys coming through like Robertson, Bowman and Mackay. I just looked at Mercer's tenure at Tyncecastle and it coincided almost exactly with the 17 and 22 in a row derby runs.

Kenny Waugh actually tried to buy Hearts before he took over Hibs and I've sometimes wondered whether they'd have built that derby dominance had he done so.


He was a twat, won ZERO trophies and started the years of Hearts living on the never never, contributing to their almost extinction.

[LewysGot2]

I would also like to mention the Hearts league cup mentality.

Amazing so many of the Hearts fanbase have never seen them win the league cup..it’s actually hilarious.

Ah but, but, but wee team, wee cup...or something 🤔 🤣🤣🤣

Since 19-6-2...there's a song in there somewhere