Agm

[DarlingtonHibee]

Bad start. NO PIES!!

[HoboHarry]

Bad start. NO PIES!!
Who ate all the pies, who ate all the pies...........

[danhibees1875]

We can't afford to keep making these losses.

First we lose the pies, but what next?

[Chorley Hibee]

There's the start of the cutbacks.

[danhibees1875]

The cost wouldn't have even hit the P&L, it would have been capitalpiesed.

[leith lynx]

No pies (boo) but hopefully no lies this year.

[Glory Lurker]

Pies have signed a pre-contract with Aberdeen. They're training with the kids.

[Pagan Hibernia]

No porky pies from Kensell

[Alfred E Newman]

I'm glad I decided not to travel up to town for the meeting this year. The pies were the highlight of last year's AGM just ahead of Brian McDermott's comedy turn.

[danhibees1875]

Pies have signed a pre-contract with Aberdeen. They're training with the kids.

I heard they were off to crustal palace.

[Bridge hibs]

I heard they were off to crustal palace.

Dont talk mince

[Last Minute]

Typical of Hibs , have the AGM at tea time when most are just getting from work and cut out giving their shareholders a wee pie . [emoji1787]


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[Greenworld]

Are the principles on stage yet


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[HoboHarry]

The American owners are about to serve up pretzels and cinnamon flavoured popcorn washed down with sarsparilla.

[Ronniekirk]

Are the principles on stage yet


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No they are eating all the pies out of sight ( sorry couldn’t resist relplyingvwith thst )

[04Sauzee]

The American owners are about to serve up pretzels and cinnamon flavoured popcorn washed down with sarsparilla.

Talking about sarsaparilla reminds me of a Laurel and Hardy sketch 😅

[Greenworld]

Talking about sarsaparilla reminds me of a Laurel and Hardy sketch [emoji28]Rangers have that covered with there new management team

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[HoboHarry]

Talking about sarsaparilla reminds me of a Laurel and Hardy sketch 😅
Sylvester the cat for me :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

Rangers have that covered with there new management team

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Wait till Barry Ferguson et al has to drink the stuff from that Loving Cup thingy they have :faf::faf:

[TrinityHFC]

Assume nothing interesting going on?

[Glory Lurker]

Has everyone who is there starved to death or have you been sworn to secrecy?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Has everyone who is there starved to death or have you been sworn to secrecy?

The latter. Let’s see who breaks the vow.

[theonlywayisup]

What's said in the room, stays in the room.

[leith lynx]

Academy annexes throughout the central belt (good idea)

[Bostonhibby]

What's said in the room, stays in the room.So there were pies after all.

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[bingo70]

Academy annexes throughout the central belt (good idea)

Is that what they’ve said they’re doing?

[leith lynx]

Is that what they’ve said they’re doing?

Yes.

[Trinity Hibee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

[Alfred E Newman]

Pie in the sky:greengrin

[TrinityHFC]

2000 shareholders at the AGM? No danger.

[Broxburn Greens]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

Excellent news that the Gordon’s are doing this.

Sure the jambo economists on KB will be able to advise how it’s a bad thing mind as they were super excited when the loss was posted.

[TrinityHFC]

Some chat about building a new training centre next to the current one?!

[Murphys Touch]

Some chat about building a new training centre next to the current one?!

Yeah - some land swap to build a 1st team only training centre

How about we get a few years of a solid 1st team on the park. Having been to HTC recently, get the playing side sorted first. It’s an amazing facility already

[PatHead]

Some chat about building a new training centre next to the current one?!

Yes. It's cramped with Woman team and academy so they are building a new partner for the first team along with an indoor facility.

[CentreLine]

Some chat about building a new training centre next to the current one?!

It appears there has been a land swap made to secure the suitable space and new pitches and buildings will include an indoor pitch. There are currently nine teams using the facilities so expansion needed. I don’t think there was a timescale mentioned but sounded fairly imminent.

[007]

Presumably lots of searching questions asked re the £7.2m loss.

[Jock O]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

So that suggests there was a cash injection of 7.2m in current years books. Wow. Just wow.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It appears there has been a land swap made to secure the suitable space and new pitches and buildings will include an indoor pitch. There are currently nine teams using the facilities so expansion needed. I don’t think there was a timescale mentioned but sounded fairly imminent.

I just don't know how we can afford this. The Gordons plugging the holes is welcome but the fact remains we're a loss making club and have been for several years.

[Steve-O]

Excellent news that the Gordon’s are doing this.

Sure the jambo economists on KB will be able to advise how it’s a bad thing mind as they were super excited when the loss was posted.

The same Jambos that are happy to have their losses plugged by the BENEFACTOR for the last decade.

[Greenworld]

I just don't know how we can afford this. The Gordons plugging the holes is welcome but the fact remains we're a loss making club and have been for several years.This sounds like something the knights would be involved in it's very much like what they did at Bournemouth.
Only guessing [emoji16]

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[LunasBoots]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

Good news, not sure if this is OK under UEFA FFP mind you?

[leith lynx]

2000 shareholders at the AGM? No danger.

Imagine the pie bill for that!

[Renfrew_Hibby]

This sounds like something the knights would be involved in it's very much like what they did at Bournemouth.
Only guessing [emoji16]

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Now I realise we're not operating to the same scale as your average English Premiership side but I don't think you'll find any mens first team squad using the same facilities as their women's side.

I'm sure that Liverpool for example moved to a new training centre and their old one was redeveloped exclusively for the woman's side, I think a few clubs have done this.

Man City have an enormous facility a stones throw from the Etihad but the men and women's departments have their own exclusive spaces, gyms, pitches ect ect. Heck the City Women even have their very own stadium in the complex.

Guess it's required and would put us at the forefront in Scotland.

[CropleyWasGod]

Good news, not sure if this is OK under UEFA FFP mind you?


From next season, for UEFA purposes, we are allowed to spend 70% of our income on player costs. That donation counts as income, so we should be okay.

[Gloucester Hibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

Wow. Really positive news! 😊

[Hibbyradge]

So that suggests there was a cash injection of 7.2m in current years books. Wow. Just wow.

How do you get that from the article?

[HoboHarry]

From next season, for UEFA purposes, we are allowed to spend 70% of our income on player costs. That donation counts as income, so we should be okay.

I was waiting for the cavalry to arrive 🙂 Any down side to this that you can foresee? Maybe it's just me being cautious as always but it almost sounds too good to be true.

[CropleyWasGod]

I was waiting for the cavalry to arrive 🙂 Any down side to this that you can foresee? Maybe it's just me being cautious as always but it almost sounds too good to be true.

Not at first sight.

I am intrigued by why it is a loan now, to be converted to a donation in June. The only thing I can think of is that it's something to do with Delaware tax. Their tax year runs to the end of June.

[CropleyWasGod]

How do you get that from the article?


The EEN version says that it is a loan just now, so we must have banked it already.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-owner-makes-ps7-million-donation-explanation-as-gordon-family-live-and-breathe-club-5007565

[joe breezy]

It’s a clean slate for now and Hibs will be more successful on the pitch from here on in

Some people never happy


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[Jock O]

How do you get that from the article?

Based on quote below, and since we had no debt in accounts and cash in bank, it suggests to me they are treating the £7.2m as an amount. They say it has been made as a loan, suggests to me its been paid already, Although after my initial euphoria the amount is starting to make me wonder if I am just assuming on that part. We won't actually know until this years accounts now, a long wait :-)

Hibernian executive director Ian Gordon says his family will absorb the club's £7.2m losses this year.
Gordon told around 200 shareholders at the club's annual general meeting that the sum has been made as a loan but will be converted into a donation this summer.

[matty_f]

Based on quote below, and since we had no debt in accounts and cash in bank, it suggests to me they are treating the £7.2m as an amount. They say it has been made as a loan, suggests to me its been paid already, Although after my initial euphoria the amount is starting to make me wonder if I am just assuming on that part. We won't actually know until this years accounts now, a long wait :-)

Hibernian executive director Ian Gordon says his family will absorb the club's £7.2m losses this year.
Gordon told around 200 shareholders at the club's annual general meeting that the sum has been made as a loan but will be converted into a donation this summer.

It's a loan that will be written off completely, no repayment and no equity - a straight donation.

[Jock O]

It's a loan that will be written off completely, no repayment and no equity - a straight donation.

That's what I am saying above, I am now just wondering if my assuming its for 7.2m precisely is just my excitement, the amount isn't clear from original statement but it could be easily read as 7.2m. However it could equally have been whatever we needed for liquidity purposes in current year.

Whatever it is, i stick to my original wow statement :-)

[basehibby]

Based on quote below, and since we had no debt in accounts and cash in bank, it suggests to me they are treating the £7.2m as an amount. They say it has been made as a loan, suggests to me its been paid already, Although after my initial euphoria the amount is starting to make me wonder if I am just assuming on that part. We won't actually know until this years accounts now, a long wait :-)

Hibernian executive director Ian Gordon says his family will absorb the club's £7.2m losses this year.
Gordon told around 200 shareholders at the club's annual general meeting that the sum has been made as a loan but will be converted into a donation this summer.

Wow - that is fantastic. Some of the losses for last year are no doubt down to some flakey dealings in the transfer market that are rumoured to lie at Ian Gordon's feet - but the Gordon family is absolutely owning that and putting their best foot forward for the club.
Excellent level of commitment that will put us on a steady footing going forward. I think a lot of lessons have been learned and expect to see much more focused and coherent signing strategy going forward - and as a result of this it won't be dragged down by excessive debt. Exciting times!

[badabing67]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo

Who is the guy on the left of Ian Gordon. Is it the new CEO.

[jeffers]

Who is the guy on the left of Ian Gordon. Is it the new CEO.

Bezbatchenko. The new CEO is yet to be announced, but IG said it would be soonish (if I remember correctly.)

[greenlad]

Bezbatchenko. The new CEO is yet to be announced, but IG said it would be soonish (if I remember correctly.)

Around 50 applicants for the CEO position, some of them very high calibre. BKFC fully involved in the CEO recruitment process (indeed I think the suggestion was that we are leaning heavily on their recruitment contacts to cast the net as wide as possible).

New CEO will produce their own strategic plan for Hibs but this will be fully aligned with BKFC ways of working.

[Greenworld]

Bezbatchenko. The new CEO is yet to be announced, but IG said it would be soonish (if I remember correctly.)About 30 days ish I understand

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[Hibernian Verse]

Around 50 applicants for the CEO position, some of them very high calibre. BKFC fully involved in the CEO recruitment process (indeed I think the suggestion was that we are leaning heavily on their recruitment contacts to cast the net as wide as possible).

New CEO will produce their own strategic plan for Hibs but this will be fully aligned with BKFC ways of working.

Have to think that the lure of an "in" into BKFC will be at the forefront of some of the applications.

[J-C]

It's a loan that will be written off completely, no repayment and no equity - a straight donation.

Do you think IG has understood he's made a complete hash of things and he feels duty bound to clear the debt that's possibly down to him.

[Jack]

CropleyWasGod. I think you'd like the Finance Officer, in a professional way of course!

She came across as a very "Scottish Accountant". I thought the species had become extinct may years ago.

[Greenworld]

CropleyWasGod. I think you'd like the Finance Officer, in a professional way of course!

She came across as a very "Scottish Accountant". I thought the species had become extinct may years ago.A tight Scots person lol

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[Greenworld]

Do you think IG has understood he's made a complete hash of things and he feels duty bound to clear the debt that's possibly down to him.Tbf he has said so many times . I have not been his biggest fan but credit where it's due . 7.2 million gift to clear all debt is to be applauded.
Now it sounds like finally we have bkfc and him working together . That can only be good

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[Brightside]

Now I realise we're not operating to the same scale as your average English Premiership side but I don't think you'll find any mens first team squad using the same facilities as their women's side.

I'm sure that Liverpool for example moved to a new training centre and their old one was redeveloped exclusively for the woman's side, I think a few clubs have done this.

Man City have an enormous facility a stones throw from the Etihad but the men and women's departments have their own exclusive spaces, gyms, pitches ect ect. Heck the City Women even have their very own stadium in the complex.

Guess it's required and would put us at the forefront in Scotland.

zero need for that in Scotland. The teams you mentioned can afford to burn money. We cant.

[GreenCastle]

The Gordon’s doing this must be applauded - considering the situation we got ourselves into.

The new training centre additions is fantastic to hear - it was only time before we used more of the land at East Mains and an indoor pitch (if full size?!!) would be a total game changer with the Scottish weather.

I can see why the men want more privacy with training - it’s great the women have been integrated to east mains but I can imagine the men’s team training for example isn’t as private as it could be.

Could be worse and sharing it with students at Oriam at a facility which isn’t even yours!

[cocopops1875]

zero need for that in Scotland. The teams you mentioned can afford to burn money. We cant.

I’m sure there was some stipulation in the BK investment that like 50% had to be used for “community use” or something equally generic sounding, I’d assume this would cover that as the HTC hosts all sorts of stuff that could be considered that under such a blanket term.

Also and I feel like I constantly say this, the team on the pitch has plenty of funding arguably too much at the moment.

[Centre Hawf]

zero need for that in Scotland. The teams you mentioned can afford to burn money. We cant.

If the Gordon's are putting the money up for it then we're not burning the money though?

[hibsforeurope]

Academy annexes throughout the central belt (good idea)

This is a brilliant idea, we should also include the borders in this catchment though. the Borders have produced their fair share of players recently and only Hearts seem to be tapping in to this area currently.

[Greenworld]

zero need for that in Scotland. The teams you mentioned can afford to burn money. We cant.I think the club alluded to the fact it was becoming very difficult with so many teams using the training ground.
Was not something that I expected but with the current legal wrangler over separate sex spaces it makes a lot of sense.
An elite training facility for the men's first team.
It may be funded by the bkfc to mirror the facility the have just built at Bournemouth .

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[badabing67]

Bezbatchenko. The new CEO is yet to be announced, but IG said it would be soonish (if I remember correctly.)

Thanks for info

:aok:

[hibsforeurope]

zero need for that in Scotland. The teams you mentioned can afford to burn money. We cant.

it sounds like this will be funded by BKFC (not sure what a land swap entails) if we are to improve the academy and increase the amount of home produced players in the 1st team having their own facility is important.

the new 1st ream facility could also act as an incentive to younger players to want to reach the level to use it. just now they are using same/similar facilities to the 1st team already so nothing to aim for.

[overdrive]

I think the club alluded to the fact it was becoming very difficult with so many teams using the training ground.
Was not something that I expected but with the current legal wrangler over separate sex spaces it makes a lot of sense.
An elite training facility for the men's first team.
It may be funded by the bkfc to mirror the facility the have just built at Bournemouth .

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This was definitely the reason given. They said that SDG, Evans, Scott and Kidd (head of football ops) are managing it between themselves just now in terms of usage but its getting more difficult to manage. I get the impression it was space inside the buildings rather the number of pitches.

I don't know if there's an issue with separate sex spaces but that would make sense too. I recently did a tour of Ibrox (I know, I know) and they said they had to reduce the size of the shower area in the away dressing room in order to create an additional referee changing room due to new regulations about needing separate areas for male and female officials.

[Greenworld]

This was definitely the reason given. They said that SDG, Evans, Scott and Kidd (head of football ops) are managing it between themselves just now in terms of usage but its getting more difficult to manage. I get the impression it was space inside the buildings rather the number of pitches.

I don't know if there's an issue with separate sex spaces but that would make sense too. I recently did a tour of Ibrox (I know, I know) and they said they had to reduce the size of the shower area in the away dressing room in order to create an additional referee changing room due to new regulations about needing separate areas for male and female officials.Sometimes you need to go into these places I hope you showered before you left [emoji846]

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[Ray_]

Do you think IG has understood he's made a complete hash of things and he feels duty bound to clear the debt that's possibly down to him.

Give them some credit!

Petrie made a complete hash of things when he came in and learned the trade. We paid money to buy lower league quality, none of them with a sellable value and the pool size dwarfed today's numbers. Hibs debt ballooned to around 22M and there was no writing off, of those debts and not even an acknowledgement of errors, just a fire sale of assets.

[Ray_]

From next season, for UEFA purposes, we are allowed to spend 70% of our income on player costs. That donation counts as income, so we should be okay.

I thought there was a 60M ceiling, over four years, anyway, under current rules.

[MelbourneHibees]

Bit surprised people are themselves surprised that the Gordons are clearing this years losses given that is what they said they would do in the accounts when they were released.
The land swap deal seems much more interesting and assume there will be news about timescales and what land has been swapped soon.

[nonshinyfinish]

I thought there was a 60M ceiling, over four years, anyway, under current rules.

That's the old rule, owners can put in a maximum of €60m over three years (not four). Designed to stop Man City/PSG-type clubs pouring in as much money as they want.

The new rule that CWG refers to is that 'football costs' must be at most 70% of turnover. However, it seems you can count donations in your turnover.

My assumption is that the limit of €60m over three years still applies as well, but I don't know for sure. (If it doesn't, what's to stop a super-rich club inflating their turnover as much as they need to with donations and making the 70% limit meaningless?)

[Springbank]

My big takeaway here (not food/pies, but information wise) is this:

After this £7.2m donation, SURELY BLOCK 7 WILL TURN THE FLAG RIGHT WAY UP from tonight's game onwards

One team, pulling in the same direction:flag:

[Onceinawhile]

My big takeaway here (not food/pies, but information wise) is this:

After this £7.2m donation, SURELY BLOCK 7 WILL TURN THE FLAG RIGHT WAY UP from tonight's game onwards

One team, pulling in the same direction:flag:

Sincerely hope not. We haven't lost a game since it went upside down.

[JeMeSouviens]

So, no pies but happy steakholders?

[dangermouse]

This was definitely the reason given. They said that SDG, Evans, Scott and Kidd (head of football ops) are managing it between themselves just now in terms of usage but its getting more difficult to manage. I get the impression it was space inside the buildings rather the number of pitches.

I don't know if there's an issue with separate sex spaces but that would make sense too. I recently did a tour of Ibrox (I know, I know) and they said they had to reduce the size of the shower area in the away dressing room in order to create an additional referee changing room due to new regulations about needing separate areas for male and female officials.

Re the bit in bold. At least Hibs had the foresight to do this when they built the new West stand.

[CropleyWasGod]

Bit surprised people are themselves surprised that the Gordons are clearing this years losses given that is what they said they would do in the accounts when they were released.
The land swap deal seems much more interesting and assume there will be news about timescales and what land has been swapped soon.

Those weren't the words they used, tbf. They said "support of the shareholders who continue to underwrite losses"

It wasn't clear exactly how that support would be given, and from whom. (eg loans, shares, donations). Now it is, hence the positive comments.

[eastterrace]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

[Iain G]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

Triantis on a permanent? 😁

[J-C]

Tbf he has said so many times . I have not been his biggest fan but credit where it's due . 7.2 million gift to clear all debt is to be applauded.
Now it sounds like finally we have bkfc and him working together . That can only be good

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Don't get me wrong I think them clearing the debt has to be applauded but it was their mistakes that have caused a lot of this debt. I now think BK Group are having more influence in the club and IG is finally listening, which is a good thing.

[GloryGlory]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

Nisbet hasn't been great at Aberdeen and Porteous hasn't really improved since he left, still far too rash and impetuous not what you need at CB - he's now out on loan, too - so I hope you're wrong.

[CropleyWasGod]

Don't get me wrong I think them clearing the debt has to be applauded but it was their mistakes that have caused a lot of this debt. I now think BK Group are having more influence in the club and IG is finally listening, which is a good thing.

People (not just you :greengrin) are talking about "clearing the debt".

There was no debt, other than the Covid loan and the loan which they put in to match last year's loss. It's the latter that is being converted to a donation.

Pedants rool. :cb

[hibsforeurope]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

if we're bringing players back i'd rather it was Rocky, Maolida or Marcondes. very unlikely i know but if we're looking to bring players back this should be the calibre.

[leith lynx]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

Think he was alluding to players out of contract in July, i.e. Rocky and Boyle.

[Centre Hawf]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.

Could he potentially mean loan players returning? Jair for example is a Hibs player that comes back to the club in the summer.

[overdrive]

Think he was alluding to players out of contract in July, i.e. Rocky and Boyle.

That's what I took him to mean. He worded it a bit clunky but I took it to mean "bring back [out of contract players] to the club [for next season]".

[J-C]

Give them some credit!

Petrie made a complete hash of things when he came in and learned the trade. We paid money to buy lower league quality, none of them with a sellable value and the pool size dwarfed today's numbers. Hibs debt ballooned to around 22M and there was no writing off, of those debts and not even an acknowledgement of errors, just a fire sale of assets.
I am giving them credit as he's put his hand in his pocket and cleared the debt and I'm delighted he's done just that.

Re Petrie, he was an accountant who worked with Farmer and was made CEO to look after Farmer's investment,unfortunately Petrie had zero football experience and ran Hibs very tightly paying little wages, therefore unable to attract really top players. Mistakes like Duffy and Butcher happened and we got lucky with the golden generation under Mowbray/Collins. We hit a reset after Butcher and Petrie handed over the running of the club to Leeann Dempster who knew what she was doing.

I'd love to know the exact amount of money we've wasted in the last 20+ years through mismanagement, hopefully now with BKG we're heading in the right direction.

[overdrive]

I thought it was interesting that on the organisation chart Malky put up of his direct reports, David Marshall wasn't there. Given he mentioned when going over the slide about scouting/recruitment that once the scouts had identified players that fit the bill that they submit a report up the line for Garvan Stewart and David Marshall to look at that we can assume he now reports to Garvan Stewart?

[J-C]

People (not just you :greengrin) are talking about "clearing the debt".

There was no debt, other than the Covid loan and the loan which they put in to match last year's loss. It's the latter that is being converted to a donation.

Pedants rool. :cb

Debt or overspend, it's still a hell of a lot for a club our size to build up, I'm glad they've cleared it whatever it is.

[CropleyWasGod]

Debt or overspend, it's still a hell of a lot for a club our size to build up, I'm glad they've cleared it whatever it is.

Sure.

I'm being pedantic, to avoid a Hibs.net myth taking hold :greengrin

[Broxburn Greens]

This is a brilliant idea, we should also include the borders in this catchment though. the Borders have produced their fair share of players recently and only Hearts seem to be tapping in to this area currently.


Not recent but the name that sprung into mind was John Collins. It may be rugby central but there's still a good depth of talent in the borders to be tapped into.

[green day]

Not recent but the name that sprung into mind was John Collins. It may be rugby central but there's still a good depth of talent in the borders to be tapped into.

We certainly dont ignore it, Josh Landers is from the Peebles area.

[nonshinyfinish]

Sure.

I'm being pedantic, to avoid a Hibs.net myth taking hold :greengrin

If it was originally a loan, isn't it technically true that converting it to a donation is 'clearing debt'?

(The distinction is irrelevant if the intention was always to convert to a donation, but we're being pedantic here after all)

[CropleyWasGod]

If it was originally a loan, isn't it technically true that converting it to a donation is 'clearing debt'?

(The distinction is irrelevant if the intention was always to convert to a donation, but we're being pedantic here after all)

Damn, I'm being out-pedanted :greengrin

Ok, ok, we owed it to ourselves, or some such stuff, so it wasn't debt at all. Any better? :na na:

[blackpoolhibs]

I've got to say if the Gordons are going to cover the loses, then fair play to them.

I've been a huge critic of the way they have run the club since the day they walked through the door, but if they are now listening to the Black Knights, and have taken a step back and are watching how successful people run a football club, then well done.

It seems they have had the good of the club in their hearts all along, just not the right ideas how to achieve that, and are looking and learning from folk that have seen it and done it, albeit in other sports and now with Bournmouth.

After a terrible start, hopefully now we see the fruits of success, having billionaires involved in our club.:pray:

[Ray_]

I am giving them credit as he's put his hand in his pocket and cleared the debt and I'm delighted he's done just that.

Re Petrie, he was an accountant who worked with Farmer and was made CEO to look after Farmer's investment,unfortunately Petrie had zero football experience and ran Hibs very tightly paying little wages, therefore unable to attract really top players. Mistakes like Duffy and Butcher happened and we got lucky with the golden generation under Mowbray/Collins. We hit a reset after Butcher and Petrie handed over the running of the club to Leeann Dempster who knew what she was doing.

I'd love to know the exact amount of money we've wasted in the last 20+ years through mismanagement, hopefully now with BKG we're heading in the right direction.

That's half the tale, once the debt had been accumulated he certainly tightened up, not before laying out players like Grant, McQuilken, Elliot, Dietrich, Tosh, Power, Lavety, Skinner & Gottskálksson. McLeish came in and had to add good players, taking our squad size to over fifty.

Up to the point of the Kenny Miller sale, the supporters were told the debt wasn't an issue. At the point of the sale, it became an issue and it was from then on that the tightening began, to the extent that players weren't being played, due to clauses in their contracts, rather than playing ability.

On the evidence so far, I know who has put their hands in their pockets, to make up for mistakes.

[Ozyhibby]

Is the woman’s team sustainable or does it rely on subsidy from the men’s team? Becomes very expensive if it is forcing us to build even bigger training centre. HTC should be easily big enough for the size of club we are?


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[badabing67]

Did I hear clear when malky was talking he mentioned bringing player or players back to the club when he was asked about transfers so right away I thought of Kevin nisbet or Ryan porteous or have I picked him up wrong.


I'm dreaming of Maolida and John McGinn

[Blocks Biloxi]

Not recent but the name that sprung into mind was John Collins. It may be rugby central but there's still a good depth of talent in the borders to be tapped into.

absolutely - also Kevin Thomson and (much, much further back :greengrin) Bobby Johnstone.

[GreenCastle]

Is the woman’s team sustainable or does it rely on subsidy from the men’s team? Becomes very expensive if it is forcing us to build even bigger training centre. HTC should be easily big enough for the size of club we are?


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Plenty of pitch space at HTC it’s the changing rooms / officials rooms / meeting rooms / canteen etc.

I’m all for another space to be built. I know people say HTC is great but compare to some of the English training grounds and it’s still miles off it.

A better building and set up can only help with any new players wanting to sign etc.

The Bournemouth indoor pitch looks incredible so if we got anything close to that we would be amazing for a club of our size and probably one of the best facilities in Scotland.

[18Craig75]

Sounds like we’re basically going to have our own Oriam. Owned and paid for by Hibs. What a fantastic legacy investment to not only Hibs but East Lothian.

There’s huge opportunities for generating revenue from it as well, training camps/base for champions league teams etc. exciting

[CropleyWasGod]

absolutely - also Kevin Thomson and (much, much further back :greengrin) Bobby Johnstone.

Before my time.


And yours!

[Kato]

That's half the tale, once the debt had been accumulated he certainly tightened up, not before laying out players like Grant, McQuilken, Elliot, Dietrich, Tosh, Power, Lavety, Skinner & Gottskálksson. McLeish came in and had to add good players, taking our squad size to over fifty.

Up to the point of the Kenny Miller sale, the supporters were told the debt wasn't an issue. At the point of the sale, it became an issue and it was from then on that the tightening began, to the extent that players weren't being played, due to clauses in their contracts, rather than playing ability.

On the evidence so far, I know who has put their hands in their pockets, to make up for mistakes.Remember in the middle of that the Sky TV deal was withdrawn. We had players half way through contracts that we couldn't afford given the TV money evaporated without warning. It was then the belt tightening happened. Hibs lived within their means while others went on spending money they didn't have, or invoked EBTs and side-contracts, or brought mafioso money launderers in as owners.

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[Centre Hawf]

Remember in the middle of that the Sky TV deal was withdrawn. We had players half way through contracts that we couldn't afford given the TV money evaporated without warning. It was then the belt tightening happened. Hibs lived within their means while others went on spending money they didn't have, or invoked EBTs and side-contracts, or brought mafioso money launderers in as owners.

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I'm obviously glad we did and ended up surviving overall, but when you consider the 'punishment' that certain teams got for overspending I do sometimes wonder if I'd rather we kept it up and won a couple trophies if the drawback was to end up relegated at some point, which we managed to do off our own backs anyway.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Sounds like we’re basically going to have our own Oriam. Owned and paid for by Hibs. What a fantastic legacy investment to not only Hibs but East Lothian.

There’s huge opportunities for generating revenue from it as well, training camps/base for champions league teams etc. exciting

Would teams be in a hurry to use it as a base for games in Glasgow?

They could just base themselves at Orium and still have the indoor pitch etc with it taking about half the time to get out to Glasgow. Better options for accommodation as well. Sure there’s an indoor pitch in Glasgow which would obviously be even closer.

[berwickhibee]

Not recent but the name that sprung into mind was John Collins. It may be rugby central but there's still a good depth of talent in the borders to be tapped into.

Hibs are well covered in the borders regards scouting, from Berwick to hawick gets covered, at present we have players from coldstream,kelso,Galashiels,earlston,Selkirk and Galashiels in the system👍

[NAE NOOKIE]

absolutely - also Kevin Thomson and (much, much further back :greengrin) Bobby Johnstone.

Bobby Johnstone has a street in Selkirk named after him :greengrin

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Lewis Gillie who came on against Clydebank is from Galashiels.

The news about the training centre is a real positive IMO. From what I understand East Mains in winter can be pretty brutal for outdoor training and a full si2ed indoor pitch we have unfettered access to can only be a good thing ... not to mention an obvious bonus when it comes to attracting players.

[Hibernian Verse]

Hibs are well covered in the borders regards scouting, from Berwick to hawick gets covered, at present we have players from coldstream,kelso,Galashiels,earlston,Selkirk and Galashiels in the system👍

Can't be true, I just read we ignore it and Hearts tap into it? :wink:

[O'Rourke3]

Damn, I'm being out-pedanted :greengrin

Ok, ok, we owed it to ourselves, or some such stuff, so it wasn't debt at all. Any better? :na na:LTYF

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[WhileTheChief..]

The Gordon’s created the loss so it’s only right and proper they pony up the funds to get us back to where we were.

Expensive lesson for them but hopefully one that sees things improve in future.

[Not In The Know]

Academy annexes throughout the central belt (good idea)

And for Bournemouth up here covering Scotland & the North of England...

[Not In The Know]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cy4vm0j9ywmo


Thats them matched Andersons "donations" to the Jumbos for a couple years then - got to be applauded.

[Billy Whizz]

We used to bring boys through from Glasgow on a minibus upto around 2014, when we had to cut costs due to relegation
I’m not sure how many players that unearthed

[allmodcons]

People (not just you :greengrin) are talking about "clearing the debt".

There was no debt, other than the Covid loan and the loan which they put in to match last year's loss. It's the latter that is being converted to a donation.

Pedants rool. :cb

I get that they are converting the loan to a donation but loans are debt are they not regardless of whether it's a Covid loan or shareholders loan?

I guess what I'm asking our .net Accountant is was there debt on our balance sheet at the last financial year end or was it cleared by way of a donation before the financial year end?

[Frogga]

We used to bring boys through from Glasgow on a minibus upto around 2014, when we had to cut costs due to relegation
I’m not sure how many players that unearthed

Steven Fletcher and Jamie McCluskey spring to mind as coming from the West. Scott Martin too.

[CropleyWasGod]

I get that they are converting the loan to a donation but loans are debt are they not regardless of whether it's a Covid loan or shareholders loan?

I guess what I'm asking our .net Accountant is was there debt on our balance sheet at the last financial year end or was it cleared by way of a donation before the financial year end?

We only had the Covid-loan at the year-end.

The loan that Bydand had given us was converted to shares during the year.

The "new" loan of £7.2m was given to us in the current financial year. (and, yeah, I get your point about that. See me being out-pedanted above :greengrin)

[hibsforeurope]

Can't be true, I just read we ignore it and Hearts tap into it? :wink:

My original post was in response to Academy Annexes in the central belt. I never mentioned scouting in the Borders as I've no idea what areas are covered or by whom.

Ok not an academy but the only SPL team currently offering pre-academy age coaching in the border is Hearts. Hibs used to do it but the last one was in 2018.

[JasonC1875]

Steven Fletcher and Jamie McCluskey spring to mind as coming from the West. Scott Martin too.

Ross Caldwell

[overdrive]

Just to be absolutely clear on the covid loan - that is still there and it’s being paid back on a monthly basis.

For the accounting nerds amongst us, some interesting points on cash flow were mentioned by the FD. She explained that the traditional curve of having a shed load of cash in the period of April to June due to season ticket money is not as pronounced due to the level of payment plan usage. Sponsorship money tends to all be paid in June/July. Transfer fees paid by the club are generally structured over two years with payments in June and January of each year. Not sure if transfer fees received generally follow the same pattern. She gave the impression that was sort of the industry norm.

[badabing67]

We used to bring boys through from Glasgow on a minibus upto around 2014, when we had to cut costs due to relegation
I’m not sure how many players that unearthed

Kevin Nisbet maybe

:dunno:

[allmodcons]

We only had the Covid-loan at the year-end.

The loan that Bydand had given us was converted to shares during the year.

The "new" loan of £7.2m was given to us in the current financial year. (and, yeah, I get your point about that. See me being out-pedanted above :greengrin)

Thanks for replying.

So, the only debt we have at the current time is a structured Covid loan?

I'm being lazy now but only because you're so good :wink:. Do you know how much the Covid loan was and the repayment term?

[Jones28]

Would teams be in a hurry to use it as a base for games in Glasgow?

They could just base themselves at Orium and still have the indoor pitch etc with it taking about half the time to get out to Glasgow. Better options for accommodation as well. Sure there’s an indoor pitch in Glasgow which would obviously be even closer.

At least with HTC they wouldn't be slotting in between Hearts, Scottish Rugby, Ed Napiers Lacrosse team, Quidditch practice ect.

[Kato]

I'm obviously glad we did and ended up surviving overall, but when you consider the 'punishment' that certain teams got for overspending I do sometimes wonder if I'd rather we kept it up and won a couple trophies if the drawback was to end up relegated at some point, which we managed to do off our own backs anyway.I reckon that could have jeopardised the club. Those who remember 1990 know that no one rushed to help us out, the League and the SFA sat on their hands. The press, in the main, urged Hibs fans to take it on the chin (ie Archie McPherson/The Scotsman). If Hibs had acted like the old Rangers we'd be out of business, if we had ended up on the sharp end of an admin event we would be all on our own with zero effort from the media to aid us.

Petrie and Farmer did exactly the right thing. It wasn't great but we had the Golden Generation to salve the pain.

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[CropleyWasGod]

Just to be absolutely clear on the covid loan - that is still there and it’s being paid back on a monthly basis.




Thanks for replying.

So, the only debt we have at the current time is a structured Covid loan?

I'm being lazy now but only because you're so good :wink:. Do you know how much the Covid loan was and the repayment term?

It was £1.2m at the end of June 24. It's interest-free.

I don't know the answer to the repayment question, but my learned friend above has a better handle on it .

[JeMeSouviens]

I reckon that could have jeopardised the club. Those who remember 1990 know that no one rushed to help us out, the League and the SFA sat on their hands. The press, in the main, urged Hibs fans to take it on the chin (ie Archie McPherson/The Scotsman). If Hibs had acted like the old Rangers we'd be out of business, if we had ended up on the sharp end of an admin event we would be all on our own with zero effort from the media to aid us.

Petrie and Farmer did exactly the right thing. It wasn't great but we had the Golden Generation to salve the pain.

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Rangers acting like the Old Rangers went out of business. :greengrin

P&F were also lucky they had a car park to sell at a time of soaring land values.

[Kato]

P&F were also lucky they had a car park to sell at a time of soaring land values.

Was earmarked as part of the land our training centre would have sat on until the council connived illegally to block the plan. But, yes, very fortunate.



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[grunt]

It was £1.2m at the end of June 24. It's interest-free.
I can't believe I was led to Google FRS 102 by a post on a football forum.

[Centre Hawf]

I reckon that could have jeopardised the club. Those who remember 1990 know that no one rushed to help us out, the League and the SFA sat on their hands. The press, in the main, urged Hibs fans to take it on the chin (ie Archie McPherson/The Scotsman). If Hibs had acted like the old Rangers we'd be out of business, if we had ended up on the sharp end of an admin event we would be all on our own with zero effort from the media to aid us.

Petrie and Farmer did exactly the right thing. It wasn't great but we had the Golden Generation to salve the pain.

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Definitely spot on with everything you've said. My poorly made point was more that it was slightly frustrating to see us stop playing guys to avoid appearance fee clauses and end up being forced to stick to a younger group (that thankfully became a golden generation) when a few others just doubled down and the slap on the wrist was to play in the same division that we ended up in anyway.

You're right to say it wouldn't have happened for us in the way it did for Rangers for example, but a few of us have always debated the idea of would we have taken say a Champions League or UEFA Cup group campaign plus 2 or 3 trophies in the mid 00's to then go play through League 2 and up again if we knew we'd be back in the top flight within 4 years the same as them.

[overdrive]

It was £1.2m at the end of June 24. It's interest-free.

I don't know the answer to the repayment question, but my learned friend above has a better handle on it .

Looked back to the 2020/21* accounts in which the loan was received. The loan was for £2.882m received in two installments. 20 year term no interest. About £12k a month (£144.1k a year). The £1.2m is the discounted value BTW. Undiscounted it is £2.6m ish at 30 June 2024.


* I couldn't get any of this to add up BTW until I realised the 2020/21 accounts have mistakes in it which state it is 2019/20 accounts.

[allmodcons]

It was £1.2m at the end of June 24. It's interest-free.

I don't know the answer to the repayment question, but my learned friend above has a better handle on it .


Looked back to the 2020/21* accounts in which the loan was received. The loan was for £2.882m received in two installments. 20 year term no interest. About £12k a month (£144.1k a year). The £1.2m is the discounted value BTW. Undiscounted it is £2.6m ish at 30 June 2024.


* I couldn't get any of this to add up BTW until I realised the 2020/21 accounts have mistakes in it which state it is 2019/20 accounts.

Thanks gentlemen.

PM me your fee notes :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Looked back to the 2020/21* accounts in which the loan was received. The loan was for £2.882m received in two installments. 20 year term no interest. About £12k a month (£144.1k a year). The £1.2m is the discounted value BTW. Undiscounted it is £2.6m ish at 30 June 2024.


* I couldn't get any of this to add up BTW until I realised the 2020/21 accounts have mistakes in it which state it is 2019/20 accounts.

D'oh.... course it is :rolleyes:

[Hibees1973]

The Gordon’s created the loss so it’s only right and proper they pony up the funds to get us back to where we were.

Expensive lesson for them but hopefully one that sees things improve in future.

We didn't know this at the start, but clearly the vision of Ron & Ian Gordon when they bought Hibs, was to overhaul every operation at the club then fully expect to run it successfully themselves. A prime example is Ian Gordon's appointment as Head of Recruitment. It was their prerogative given they bought Hibs. This however, proved to be naive and reckless.

Clearly the huge losses at the club over the last few years are due to incompetence by The Gordons. Stupid appointments of managers, players and other staff by The Gordon family.

Ian Gordon has certainly changed strategy by appointing the likes of MacKay and eventually giving Black Knights a more tangible role at the club. I give Ian Gordon credit for this, no matter how belated it was.

Yes, The Gordon family have covered the £7.2m loss and previous losses, which is positive.

Given The Gordons had carte blanche to do what they wished in the first few years of their tenure, will they in the long term, be able to sit back and let others take control of the things that really matter at the club. Or will they want to sell up given their control of the club has been diluted.

Time will tell.

[Billy Whizz]

Kevin Nisbet maybe

:dunno:

Good shout

The transfer fees gained from Fletcher will have paid for this and more

[Donegal Hibby]

We didn't know this at the start, but clearly the vision of Ron & Ian Gordon when they bought Hibs, was to overhaul every operation at the club then fully expect to run it successfully themselves. A prime example is Ian Gordon's appointment as Head of Recruitment. It was their prerogative given they bought Hibs. This however, proved to be naive and reckless.

Clearly the huge losses at the club over the last few years are due to incompetence by The Gordons. Stupid appointments of managers, players and other staff by The Gordon family.

Ian Gordon has certainly changed strategy by appointing the likes of MacKay and eventually giving Black Knights a more tangible role at the club. I give Ian Gordon credit for this, no matter how belated it was.

Yes, The Gordon family have covered the £7.2m loss and previous losses, which is positive.

Given The Gordons had carte blanche to do what they wished in the first few years of their tenure, will they in the long term, be able to sit back and let others take control of the things that really matter at the club. Or will they want to sell up given their control of the club has been diluted.

Time will tell.

Two things … one , is the huge losses over the last few years you refer to not also down to improvements that have been made at the club also? …

Two … the Gordon’s are the owners of the football club so how has their control of the club been diluted? :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Two things … one , is the huge losses over the last few years you refer to not also down to improvements that have been made at the club also? …

Two … the Gordon’s are the owners of the football club so how has their control of the club been diluted? :dunno:

1. the stadium improvements are capital costs, and so don't contribute to the trading losses.

2. Bydand bought 67% of the club from STF. With the recent share issues, that is now 62%.

[McD]

Apologies if I’m being thick (common enough occurrence :greengrin), what is the purpose of the £7.2m being initially given as a loan, and then converted into a donation later on? Rather than just a donation from the outset?

[JimBHibees]

Bobby Johnstone has a street in Selkirk named after him :greengrin

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Lewis Gillie who came on against Clydebank is from Galashiels.

The news about the training centre is a real positive IMO. From what I understand East Mains in winter can be pretty brutal for outdoor training and a full si2ed indoor pitch we have unfettered access to can only be a good thing ... not to mention an obvious bonus when it comes to attracting players.

Yes he is from Gala

[WhileTheChief..]

Apologies if I’m being thick (common enough occurrence :greengrin), what is the purpose of the £7.2m being initially given as a loan, and then converted into a donation later on? Rather than just a donation from the outset?

It’s a good question.

I’d guess the reason is that spending that amount of money was never part of the plan.

Once they realised the mess they had made, they had to put it right.

The alternative would have seen us running up a mountain of debt again unless they found someone else to bail us out.

[CropleyWasGod]

Apologies if I’m being thick (common enough occurrence :greengrin), what is the purpose of the £7.2m being initially given as a loan, and then converted into a donation later on? Rather than just a donation from the outset?

I've been struggling with that, too. I have 2 theories:-

1. Bydand is registered in Delaware, where company disclosure is notoriously secretive, unlike the UK. However, I do know that Delaware's company tax year ends on 30 June, just like the club. IG did say that the loan would be converted to a donation "by 30 June". It may be that there are Delaware tax reasons for doing it that way, to Bydand's advantage.

2. it may be that their original plan was to loan us the money, possibly converting it to shares later. However, there may have been resistance from other large shareholders to that plan, as it would dilute their holdings. Hence the switch.

Both theories, of course, with no inside knowledge. There will be others. :cb

[McD]

It’s a good question.

I’d guess the reason is that spending that amount of money was never part of the plan.

Once they realised the mess they had made, they had to put it right.

The alternative would have seen us running up a mountain of debt again unless they found someone else to bail us out.


I've been struggling with that, too. I have 2 theories:-

1. Bydand is registered in Delaware, where company disclosure is notoriously secretive, unlike the UK. However, I do know that Delaware's company tax year ends on 30 June, just like the club. IG did say that the loan would be converted to a donation "by 30 June". It may be that there are Delaware tax reasons for doing it that way, to Bydand's advantage.

2. it may be that their original plan was to loan us the money, possibly converting it to shares later. However, there may have been resistance from other large shareholders to that plan, as it would dilute their holdings. Hence the switch.

Both theories, of course, with no inside knowledge. There will be others. :cb



Thanks guys :aok: