VAR, offiside, no linesman's flag and playing on

[stalbanshibby]

Can someone explain this to me, because I'm confused about this:

Happened a few times on Saturday: Celtic player offside, linesman doesn't flag right away, apparently relying on VAR to pick up the offside, so they play on, then the linesman flags. Why? Surely it's just dead play and very confusing to watch, let alone play against. Why do they do this? Why don't they flag offside immediately, if the linesman spots it?

[Scouse Hibee]

Can someone explain this to me, because I'm confused about this:

Happened a few times on Saturday: Celtic player offside, linesman doesn't flag right away, apparently relying on VAR to pick up the offside, so they play on, then the linesman flags. Why? Surely it's just dead play and very confusing to watch, let alone play against. Why do they do this? Why don't they flag offside immediately, if the linesman spots it?

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

[Carheenlea]

Does nothing to aid the flow of the game.

Stops momentum and makes play disjointed and frustrating watching fans in the process.

It’s like a constant campaign looking at how to make the game more unwatchable.

[Jock O]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

That is probably best explanation I have had so far, I was saying again on Saturday I just can't understand it. The one where I think Campbell had a shot well saved by Schmeichel would have been chalked off if it had gone in, which surely would have just caused uproar. I sort of get it from what you are saying, but I think it was Klopp made a good point last year when one of his players was injured making a recovery tackle that was unnecessary as the game was then pulled back for offside.

It seems to be a bit tail wagging dog on first impression, but I suppose it is stopping a potential goal being stopped due to a wrong call. It definitely makes the VAR/fan relationship more difficult though in my opinion, and puts the linesman in the line of fire much more now. Although Saturdays west stand linesman could have done with being fired at, a couple of times, wake him up!

[stalbanshibby]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

Doesn't that make assistant refs more or less obsolete then? I mean AFAIK his/her job is offsides, who's throw in it is and whether the ball goes out of play - so if they've no faith for offsides, they could just as easily extend that to everything else, and rely on the cameras. In the meantime, because there's no immediate reaction from the officials to an offside, from a spectator's POV, I'm confused whether I'm watching real or dead play. Spoils the spectacle for me.

[matty_f]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

It's absolutely the right way to approach it. With VAR available there's absolutely no need for a wrong flag to kill a move that could lead to a goal.

[Fergus52]

It's absolutely the right way to approach it. With VAR available there's absolutely no need for a wrong flag to kill a move that could lead to a goal.

:agree:

I've heard many people argue that if its obvious the linesman should just flag, but I think that sets a dangerous precedant - if a defensive line is playing an agressive offside trap against a fast player then there's many times it may look clearly offside upon first glance but the attacker is actually on.

If Boyle was put through one on one in the derby on Sunday and the linesman immediately flagged, you'd be raging if it was actually onside. One of the only good things about VAR is that these calls never happen anymore.

[O'Rourke3]

What boils my urine is that we get punished. We get the ball back inside the 18 yard lines. The offence took place nearer the halfway line. We could be on a break with decent possession, we get the free kick and the team who are "breaching the rule" get to regroup. None of this is fair or helping keep the spectacle going.

[theonlywayisup]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

Yes, I agree and understand, but I felt the linesmen on Saturday took it too far.

There was more than a couple of occasions when the ball was cleared out of the box by a defender/goalkeeper that then should have been a stop to that phase of play. But no we had a second phase of attack and only at the end of that did the flag go up. It would be interesting if someone timed the period between the ball forward to the offside player and the offside flag going up.

[stalbanshibby]

It's absolutely the right way to approach it. With VAR available there's absolutely no need for a wrong flag to kill a move that could lead to a goal.

Or the converse as on Saturday: no flag and a goal was awarded initially, even though the ball was out. I'm now wondering what purpose linesmen have?

[matty_f]

Or the converse as on Saturday: no flag and a goal was awarded initially, even though the ball was out. I'm now wondering what purpose linesmen have?

I think the linesman didn't think the ball was out, but to be fair if he has a doubt then it is better to let the play go and get VAR to check it.

If the linesman had flagged and the ball hadn't gone out, then that's an unnecessary mistake.

I think for things where there's a fine line, letting play go and letting VAR check it is the best approach.

[Hibernian Verse]

What boils my urine is that we get punished. We get the ball back inside the 18 yard lines. The offence took place nearer the halfway line. We could be on a break with decent possession, we get the free kick and the team who are "breaching the rule" get to regroup. None of this is fair or helping keep the spectacle going.

When you say "none of this is fair", I'm not sure how you have come to that conclusion? It seems pretty fair to me, the attacking team should always carry the advantage and we will carry it plenty as the season goes on.

[stalbanshibby]

I think the linesman didn't think the ball was out, but to be fair if he has a doubt then it is better to let the play go and get VAR to check it.

If the linesman had flagged and the ball hadn't gone out, then that's an unnecessary mistake.

I think for things where there's a fine line, letting play go and letting VAR check it is the best approach.

It would have been an absolute injustice if that second 'goal' for Celtic had stood - the ball was clearly out. However, if you listen to the pundits on BBC on Saturday night, knowing that there is a massive old firm bias there, but all they could talk about was whether VAR should have got involved at all and whether VAR 'should have supported the onfield officials' (Neil McCann).

So as long as the principle is that VAR will check ALL goals and call out ANY incorrect decision in the build up, then fine, in which case what was McCann talking about?

[O'Rourke3]

When you say "none of this is fair", I'm not sure how you have come to that conclusion? It seems pretty fair to me, the attacking team should always carry the advantage and we will carry it plenty as the season goes on.

It's pretty simple. If the initial offence is 40 yards further up the pitch then the distance to the goal is shorter. There was nothing marginal in most of the offsides on Saturday as there were generally two Celtc players off.

[Kato]

Just saw an angle from behind the goal showing the Hibs pen claim. Surely VAR have that angle as well. Have seen penalties given for far, far less.

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[Shrekko]

It's debateable whether in some cases it's necessary but everyone surely knows this is the rule? I cannot understand the crowd continually going nuts at the linesmen on Saturday for this. They are doing what they're meant to do! Be much more concerned if they were making up their own rules!

[Tyler Durden]

I think the issue on Saturday is that the linesman (first half) was just waiting far too long. As someone else said, he let the attack play out but then waited til a 2nd or 3rd phase arguably had completed. Also where the offside is really blatant they are allowed to flag immediately. There were a few by Idah for example that he really should have just flagged right away.

[Tyler Durden]

It would have been an absolute injustice if that second 'goal' for Celtic had stood - the ball was clearly out. However, if you listen to the pundits on BBC on Saturday night, knowing that there is a massive old firm bias there, but all they could talk about was whether VAR should have got involved at all and whether VAR 'should have supported the onfield officials' (Neil McCann).

So as long as the principle is that VAR will check ALL goals and call out ANY incorrect decision in the build up, then fine, in which case what was McCann talking about?

I would agree with Rodgers and McCann tbh. There is no factual conclusive evidence that the ball was out. VAR should not intervene on that basis.

[Hibernian Verse]

It's pretty simple. If the initial offence is 40 yards further up the pitch then the distance to the goal is shorter. There was nothing marginal in most of the offsides on Saturday as there were generally two Celtc players off.

Which is fine assuming the linesman will always get it right. If we ask them to flag if they think it's offside immediately then you're going to go back to offside mistakes which prevent a goal. If we don't use VAR then no Rowles OG at Tynie and no Campbell second yesterday.

[where'stheslope]

My take on it is, when the player runs through and then he is challenged and is fouled maybe red card, does the linesman raise his flag for offside and therefore nullifies the red card????

[Hibernian Verse]

My take on it is, when the player runs through and then he is challenged and is fouled maybe red card, does the linesman raise his flag for offside and therefore nullifies the red card????

It would only change the misconduct decision if the fact the play was offside mitigated the justification for the misconduct.

Just because you're offside doesn't mean you can two foot the defender :greengrin

[matty_f]

I think the issue on Saturday is that the linesman (first half) was just waiting far too long. As someone else said, he let the attack play out but then waited til a 2nd or 3rd phase arguably had completed. Also where the offside is really blatant they are allowed to flag immediately. There were a few by Idah for example that he really should have just flagged right away.
He was massively inconsistent with it as well. The amount of times the flag went straight up for us and was held for them seemed totally out of line.

[Chorley Hibee]

He was massively inconsistent with it as well. The amount of times the flag went straight up for us and was held for them seemed totally out of line.

Inconsistent is one word for it.

[stalbanshibby]

I would agree with Rodgers and McCann tbh. There is no factual conclusive evidence that the ball was out. VAR should not intervene on that basis.

The ball was clearly out. Not only that, there's now photos all over the papers and BBC website now that show that. We don't know what the VAR officials did for sure, but surely we can assume they freeze framed the ball just when Johnson got his foot round it, and these photos show evidence which is factual and conclusive that the ball was out. You a Celtic supporter by any chance?

[Frazerbob]

It is very frustrating, especially when it's a blatantly obvious offside, however I get why it's done. You can't award a goal if the offside was wrongly flagged and the game stopped but you can cancel a goal scored after VAR has checked for offside.

[Frazerbob]

The ball was clearly out. Not only that, there's now photos all over the papers and BBC website now that show that. We don't know what the VAR officials did for sure, but surely we can assume they freeze framed the ball just when Johnson got his foot round it, and these photos show evidence which is factual and conclusive that the ball was out. You a Celtic supporter by any chance?

If VAR didn't exist, the linesman would've flagged, as we was probably pretty sure it was out. With VAR as their safety net, even the smallest of doubt will mean the officials don't make a decision in the knowledge that VAR will make it for them.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Does nothing to aid the flow of the game.

Stops momentum and makes play disjointed and frustrating watching fans in the process.

It’s like a constant campaign looking at how to make the game more unwatchable.

my sceptical take it’s to allow play to develop and conclude to give more. Controversial taking points pure and simple. The pundits say they’re kinda against it and then devote a helluva lot of time going over these points.

[FastEddieFelson]

Marcondes' goal at Pittodrie last season is a good example of why the linesmen do this...

See the 4:00 minute mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF4ysMgsqmg

[KazaHibs]

The ball was clearly out. Not only that, there's now photos all over the papers and BBC website now that show that. We don't know what the VAR officials did for sure, but surely we can assume they freeze framed the ball just when Johnson got his foot round it, and these photos show evidence which is factual and conclusive that the ball was out. You a Celtic supporter by any chance?

How can you say that? There's no camera right on the line therefore we cannot know for sure. Angles are at play. We got a slice of luck and it's about time. We were also denied a stonewall penalty.

[stalbanshibby]

If VAR didn't exist, the linesman would've flagged, as we was probably pretty sure it was out. With VAR as their safety net, even the smallest of doubt will mean the officials don't make a decision in the knowledge that VAR will make it for them.

Or maybe he missed it? Who knows?? Mclean made the initial on-field decision which was a goal and I didn't see the linesman calling him over, which is what he should have done if he thought it was out. It was only the VAR review that overturned it - and overturning an on-field decision is at the Refs discretion. To be fair to Mclean he did do that. But once again, what are linesmen for now they can do nowt (if that's what he was thinking) and wait for VAR.

But then you've got McCann et al saying that VAR shouldn't have intervened, presumably because they thought you couldn't have conclusive evidence from an 18 yard line camera, even though a freeze frame clearly shows the ball out (which makes it conclusive).

Rodgers was saying that because the linesman didn't flag it, he maintained that the lineman thought the ball was still in play, whereas you're saying the linesman didn't flag it even tjough he thought it was out because he thought VAR would pick it up.

Bonkers

[KazaHibs]

Or maybe he missed it? Who knows?? Mclean made the initial on-field decision which was a goal and I didn't see the linesman calling him over, which is what he should have done if he thought it was out. It was only the VAR review that overturned it - and overturning an on-field decision is at the Refs discretion. To be fair to Mclean he did do that. But once again, what are linesmen for now they can do nowt (if that's what he was thinking) and wait for VAR.

But then you've got McCann et al saying that VAR shouldn't have intervened, presumably because they thought you couldn't have conclusive evidence from an 18 yard line camera, even though a freeze frame clearly shows the ball out (which makes it conclusive).

Bonkers

But an 18 yard line camera cannot be conclusive. Sky have shown that a few times this season. That's the point. If it was the other way round and we got a goal like that chopped off at Celtic park we would be raging!

[CropleyWasGod]

Or maybe he missed it? Who knows?? Mclean made the initial on-field decision which was a goal and I didn't see the linesman calling him over, which is what he should have done if he thought it was out. It was only the VAR review that overturned it - and overturning an on-field decision is at the Refs discretion. To be fair to Mclean he did do that. But once again, what are linesmen for now they can do nowt (if that's what he was thinking) and wait for VAR.

But then you've got McCann et al saying that VAR shouldn't have intervened, presumably because they thought you couldn't have conclusive evidence from an 18 yard line camera, even though a freeze frame clearly shows the ball out (which makes it conclusive).

Bonkers

It's a freeze-frame from an angle, though. That's not conclusive for me. That's why they had to use their judgement.

The only reliable shot would be from directly above.

[JimBHibees]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

Exactly that

[JimBHibees]

Just saw an angle from behind the goal showing the Hibs pen claim. Surely VAR have that angle as well. Have seen penalties given for far, far less.

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Personally thought that was a stick on penalty had great view of it at the game and couldn’t believe it wasn’t given

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

There was a point in the 1st half where the Celtic player was about 4 yards offside and the linesman let play continue.

We managed to knock the ball out for a corner thankfully but then the play wasn’t pulled back for offside and they got to take the corner kick.

If Celtic scored from the resultant corner I can’t see how that’s fair.

[BoomtownHibees]

What annoys me more now is that refs don’t seem to just play on if the defending team have the ball. Once the initial move breaks down and the linesman then flags late for an offside, the game should continue if the other team have recovered the ball by that point. It used to happen all the time but now it seems to be pulled back every single time

[babahibs]

Team A player, in behind, may or may not be offside, flag stays down, play on, goal. May or may not be given. Var.

Team B player, in behind, may or may not be offside, flag goes up straight away, the end.

It's been pretty obvious for a while now.

[Donegal Hibby]

It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

I remember in a premier league game when there was a player offside ( a really obvious one ) they allowed play to carry on and I think the goalkeeper had to go off because he got injured from it .

A wee while later and there was another offside and the linesman quickly flagged for offside…

Wonder if there’s a case of when it’s totally obvious that it’s offside should it be ruled out quickly to save a player getting injured possibly.

[BoomtownHibees]

Wonder if there’s a case of when it’s totally obvious that it’s offside should it be ruled out quickly to save a player getting injured possibly.

That’s exactly what is meant to happen

[Tyler Durden]

What annoys me more now is that refs don’t seem to just play on if the defending team have the ball. Once the initial move breaks down and the linesman then flags late for an offside, the game should continue if the other team have recovered the ball by that point. It used to happen all the time but now it seems to be pulled back every single time

Yeah this part, I really do not get. Seems no obvious reason.

Must have been a record number of offsides offsides on Saturday. Celtic average 2 a game and had 8 on Saturday. We average 3 and had 6. Would have been about 200/1 to bet on that

[Clarence]

What boils my urine is that we get punished. We get the ball back inside the 18 yard lines. The offence took place nearer the halfway line. We could be on a break with decent possession, we get the free kick and the team who are "breaching the rule" get to regroup. None of this is fair or helping keep the spectacle going.

The ref should have the option to play on and signal offside over. Don’t want rugby style advantage being played but then it gets taken back to an initial infringement.

[Musselbound]

Doesn't that make assistant refs more or less obsolete then? I mean AFAIK his/her job is offsides, who's throw in it is and whether the ball goes out of play - so if they've no faith for offsides, they could just as easily extend that to everything else, and rely on the cameras. In the meantime, because there's no immediate reaction from the officials to an offside, from a spectator's POV, I'm confused whether I'm watching real or dead play. Spoils the spectacle for me.

I've been wondering that for a while now myself. What purpose do these assistants now serve if there is also VAR? They seem to have very little to do.

[LaMotta]

It's absolutely the right way to approach it. With VAR available there's absolutely no need for a wrong flag to kill a move that could lead to a goal.


:agree:

I've heard many people argue that if its obvious the linesman should just flag, but I think that sets a dangerous precedant - if a defensive line is playing an agressive offside trap against a fast player then there's many times it may look clearly offside upon first glance but the attacker is actually on.

If Boyle was put through one on one in the derby on Sunday and the linesman immediately flagged, you'd be raging if it was actually onside. One of the only good things about VAR is that these calls never happen anymore.


It’s supposed to be so they call allow the phase of play to continue in case the assistant ref is wrong.

:agree::agree::agree:
It's actually so bizarre how angry people get with this. Linesman clearly doing what he's been told to do and people are going purple in the face screaming at him for something that's now been the norm for over 2 years.

It's not perfect of course, but it's better than the alternative of good goals being ruled out incorrectly - as you say Fergus.

[CropleyWasGod]

I've been wondering that for a while now myself. What purpose do these assistants now serve if there is also VAR? They seem to have very little to do.


https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-6---the-other-match-officials

"The other 'on-field' match officials assist the referee with offences when they have a clearer view than the referee"

[Itsnoteasy]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

[LaMotta]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

Thank god the linesman keep their flags down eh! Maybe everyone will stop going mental at them now :greengrin

[I'm_cabbaged]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

Thought it was for handball?

[Unseen work]

Thank god the linesman keep their flags down eh! Maybe everyone will stop going mental at them now :greengrin

I genuinely hate how commentators keep giving them stick for keeping their flags down.

It’s clearly instructed and tonight shows why.

The only reservation I have about it is risk of injuries etc and I think it shifts momentum a bit. But it’s not the linesman fault

[Itsnoteasy]

Thought it was for handball?

Yes it was, but initially the check was for offside. And they were unable to draw a line for the last Hibs defender so it was inconclusive.

[Jones28]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

It was handball, offside was inconclusive.

My biggest issue with VAR is that we’ve done this half arsed version. It needs more cameras to work better.

It’s never going to be perfect until AI can most of the work.

[LaMotta]

I genuinely hate how commentators keep giving them stick for keeping their flags down.

It’s clearly instructed and tonight shows why.

The only reservation I have about it is risk of injuries etc and I think it shifts momentum a bit. But it’s not the linesman fault

:agree: Mikey Stewart is the worst for it.

[LaMotta]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

Scrap VAR tonight and United get an extra goal, and we get one incorrectly chalked off. Is that what you wanted?

[Itsnoteasy]

It was handball, offside was inconclusive.

My biggest issue with VAR is that we’ve done this half arsed version. It needs more cameras to work better.

It’s never going to be perfect until AI can most of the work.

100%

[Itsnoteasy]

Scrap VAR tonight and United get an extra goal, and we get one incorrectly chalked off. Is that what you wanted?

Nope but if that was us we wouldn't be happy.

[Widhibs]

Scrap VAR tonight and United get an extra goal, and we get one incorrectly chalked off. Is that what you wanted?

Agreed

[I'm_cabbaged]

Yes it was, but initially the check was for offside. And they were unable to draw a line for the last Hibs defender so it was inconclusive.

So he could be 10 yards onside, it was still handball?

[Jones28]

Nope but if that was us we wouldn't be happy.

Well, we weren’t when they were against us.

When they go in our favour I couldn’t give a ****.

That’s football, tribal and parochial.

[LaMotta]

Nope but if that was us we wouldn't be happy.

VAR got the decisions right though.

[Kato]

Nope but if that was us we wouldn't be happy....but the decisions would still be correct.

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[Pagan Hibernia]

I really can't be doing with another few days of having a decision in our favour analysed forensically to within an inch of its life.

None of the rest of Scottish football gave a sh**e when we were getting shafted with decisions it seemed like every week this time last year.

Hope we get another couple going our way on Sunday just to rub extra salt in maroon wounds

[TrinityHFC]

Scrap VAR tonight and United get an extra goal, and we get one incorrectly chalked off. Is that what you wanted?

If it wasn’t for VAR actually correctly intervening we wouldn’t have won our last 2 games.

[JimBHibees]

If it wasn’t for VAR actually correctly intervening we wouldn’t have won our last 2 games.

Or the derby

[LaMotta]

I really can't be doing with another few days of having a decision in our favour analysed forensically to within an inch of its life.

None of the rest of Scottish football gave a sh**e when we were getting shafted with decisions it seemed like every week this time last year.

Hope we get another couple going our way on Sunday just to rub extra salt in maroon wounds


If it wasn’t for VAR actually correctly intervening we wouldn’t have won our last 2 games.

:agree::agree:

[Hibs1969]

VAR got the decisions right though.
I still can’t see the handball for Utd’s disallowed goal even after watching it a few times. We definitely dodged a bullet there but after all the luck Utd have carried against us so far this season they can suck it up.

[ballengeich]

It was handball, offside was inconclusive.

My biggest issue with VAR is that we’ve done this half arsed version. It needs more cameras to work better.

It’s never going to be perfect until AI can most of the work.
It should be possible for more than one thing to be checked simultaneously. If someone had immediately looked at what happened after the header the offside would have been irrelevant at once. When I heard about the handball check I thought that offside had been given but that a penalty was now possible. It's the time that's taken to make a decision that's the big negative.

[Unseen work]

See tbf, I do think he heads it off his arm

One angle shows it being headed down and a deflection makes it rise again

Normal speed it is impossible to tell and looks like the one motion

It’s a bold call to say it’s his arm he heads it off and not Triantis back however.

I’d still be raging if it went against us, but the rules are strict re if the goalscorer hands it

[LaMotta]

Pitchside view here from a Utd camera.

https://x.com/partyfears2_/status/1895010968889106576?t=n1qcC8h-N_EuYBn5catMMg&s=19

I think its inconclusive. Utd fans saying that footage proves it doesnt hit his arm, I dont think it does prove that.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Pitchside view here from a Utd camera.

https://x.com/partyfears2_/status/1895010968889106576?t=n1qcC8h-N_EuYBn5catMMg&s=19

I think its inconclusive. Utd fans saying that footage proves it doesnt hit his arm, I dont think it does prove that.

:agree:

I’ve not seen anything that proves whether it hit the arm or not either way.

[number9dream]

:agree:

I’ve not seen anything that proves whether it hit the arm or not either way.

I’m the same. It seems like a scandalous decision.
What was Dalby’s reaction afterwards? Was he going nuts?

[Carheenlea]

Looks a shocker of a decision.

https://x.com/weejimsta/status/1895029770548830620?s=46

Would maybe stop short at wanting the match replayed - I’d refer “Wee Jim” to previous refereeing injustices and he’ll maybe reign in the histrionics a bit.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It's almost impossible to say if it hit his arm and I think it shouldn't have been ruled out for that.

I do however think he was a fraction offside.

[kentao]

No idea why the goal was chalked off and still none the wiser after about 30 views of different videos, suppose that's us even after the joke penalty decision at ER.

[LaMotta]

Looks a shocker of a decision.

https://x.com/weejimsta/status/1895029770548830620?s=46

Would maybe stop short at wanting the match replayed - I’d refer “Wee Jim” to previous refereeing injustices and he’ll maybe reign in the histrionics a bit.

I think that footage is inconclusive as well. There hasn't been an angle shown that confirms if it hit his arm, but I dont know how anyone can say they know it didnt.

This incident fully sums up the faults of our cheaply set up VAR system - cant tell if he was offside, cant tell if he handled it.

Solution is more cameras, but that comes at a cost to all the clubs so its about weighing up priorities. I think recent events mean we will see VAR being upgraded.

[stalbanshibby]

I’m the same. It seems like a scandalous decision.
What was Dalby’s reaction afterwards? Was he going nuts?

Think we did dodge a bullet there. I can't see anything clear and obvious that suggests it hit his arm. If I were Goodwin (glad I'm not) I'd be raging, but yeah we were due one against them so no problem taking it.

BUT.... Hoilet's goal. The lino flagged for offside and it was overturned. If you look back through this thread and why this thread started, it was because lino's DON'T raise their flag for offside and let play on, and then let VAR do the checking. Against the 'tic it happened quite a few times. The exception being in the 'Tic game when the west stand lino flagged Campbell's second offside, although that was overturned by VAR. However the accepted wisdom on this thread is that lino's won't raise their flag unless it's a clear and obvious offside in case they make an incorrect call (even though it happened against Celtic), and happened again last night. Right enough, the players ignored it and Junior scored, and from what I could see the Dundee United defenders didn't stop either, so wtf??

I just don't get it. Was this individual error? What are the linos told to do? It just seems so inconsistent and confusing.

[Jones28]

Looks a shocker of a decision.

https://x.com/weejimsta/status/1895029770548830620?s=46

Would maybe stop short at wanting the match replayed - I’d refer “Wee Jim” to previous refereeing injustices and he’ll maybe reign in the histrionics a bit.

That GIF is a) blurry AF, probably on purpose to prove a point and b) can't be slowed down.

Look at this link, slow it down on 7 seconds in and play it through frame by frame, the ball is headed downwards on to his hand that is on Triantis' shoulder.

https://x.com/king_kong_83/status/1895008652769009986?s=46&t=VghJuoU_bl8ISs-zf5CmHg

That, to me, is conclusive proof the ball is played downwards on to his hand and goes in, under the new rules the goal cannot stand.

[LaMotta]

Think we did dodge a bullet there. I can't see anything clear and obvious that suggests it hit his arm. If I were Goodwin (glad I'm not) I'd be raging, but yeah we were due one against them so no problem taking it.

BUT.... Hoilet's goal. The lino flagged for offside and it was overturned. If you look back through this thread and why this thread started, it was because lino's DON'T raise their flag for offside and let play on, and then let VAR do the checking. Against the 'tic it happened quite a few times. The exception being in the 'Tic game when the west stand lino flagged Campbell's second offside, although that was overturned by VAR. However the accepted wisdom on this thread is that lino's won't raise their flag unless it's a clear and obvious offside in case they make an incorrect call (even though it happened against Celtic), and happened again last night. Right enough, the players ignored it and Junior scored, and from what I could see the Dundee United defenders didn't stop either, so wtf??

I just don't get it. Was this individual error? What are the linos told to do? It just seems so inconsistent and confusing.

Lino kept his flag down until the ball was in the net. Then he puts it up as he thought it was offside. VAR checks, and overrules. Perfect use of VAR!

[stalbanshibby]

Lino kept his flag down until the ball was in the net. Then he puts it up as he thought it was offside. VAR checks, and overrules. Perfect use of VAR!

Ah. Fair enough. I thought he raised it straight away. My mistake and that does make sense.

[LaMotta]

Ah. Fair enough. I thought he raised it straight away. My mistake and that does make sense.

:aok:

[Groathillgrump]

That GIF is a) blurry AF, probably on purpose to prove a point and b) can't be slowed down.

Look at this link, slow it down on 7 seconds in and play it through frame by frame, the ball is headed downwards on to his hand that is on Triantis' shoulder.

https://x.com/king_kong_83/status/1895008652769009986?s=46&t=VghJuoU_bl8ISs-zf5CmHg

That, to me, is conclusive proof the ball is played downwards on to his hand and goes in, under the new rules the goal cannot stand.

You're absolutely correct. :agree:

Couldn't tell until I slowed it down as much as possible. It clearly comes off the striker's hand on Triantis' shoulder.

[Pagan Hibernia]

So it was offside, handball, and a foul on our defender.

What are United annoyed about? :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

You're absolutely correct. :agree:

Couldn't tell until I slowed it down as much as possible. It clearly comes off the striker's hand on Triantis' shoulder.

Right hand or left hand

[LaMotta]

Right hand or left hand

Looks like his right arm to me.

[percy veer]

Or the derby


the amount of wrong call the ref and linesmen are making against us needs looked.

[Jones28]

Right hand or left hand

Dalbys right hand is on Triantis' left shoulder.

[Jones28]

You're absolutely correct. :agree:

Couldn't tell until I slowed it down as much as possible. It clearly comes off the striker's hand on Triantis' shoulder.

For us it's a really good spot, shame for United but I don't remember them mentioning anything around their penalty they got at ER that took similar amounts of time to be looked at.

[LaMotta]

For us it's a really good spot, shame for United but I don't remember them mentioning anything around their penalty they got at ER that took similar amounts of time to be looked at.

I thought it was inconclusive, but now I'm in no doubt you are right and it was a handball and the decision was correct. See this, and from a rangers fan nonetheless!

Rangers Spares on X: "@StephenFlynnSNP Clearly hits his arm and goes in or it’s going wide. The trajectory completely changes https://t.co/NdzWQG1VPp" / X (https://x.com/Rangers_Spares_/status/1895096711162532094)


Surely we can all agree now??!

[Pagan Hibernia]

28575

Offside.

[TrinityHFC]

I thought it was inconclusive, but now I'm in no doubt you are right and it was a handball and the decision was correct. See this, and from a rangers fan nonetheless!

Rangers Spares on X: "@StephenFlynnSNP Clearly hits his arm and goes in or it’s going wide. The trajectory completely changes https://t.co/NdzWQG1VPp" / X (https://x.com/Rangers_Spares_/status/1895096711162532094)


Surely we can all agree now??!

Yes that’s great angle. Heads it down onto his hand then the ball flies at a different angle into the net. It is a great spot by VAR to be fair.

[Musselbound]

I genuinely hate how commentators keep giving them stick for keeping their flags down.

It’s clearly instructed and tonight shows why.

The only reservation I have about it is risk of injuries etc and I think it shifts momentum a bit. But it’s not the linesman fault

Agree with you. The way I look at the risk of injury is that it exists whenever you are on a football pitch so I think that is overplayed a bit.

[JimBHibees]

I thought it was inconclusive, but now I'm in no doubt you are right and it was a handball and the decision was correct. See this, and from a rangers fan nonetheless!

Rangers Spares on X: "@StephenFlynnSNP Clearly hits his arm and goes in or it’s going wide. The trajectory completely changes https://t.co/NdzWQG1VPp" / X (https://x.com/Rangers_Spares_/status/1895096711162532094)


Surely we can all agree now??!

Great spot that

[matty_f]

Folk complain about VAR and they complain about delayed flags and last night is a great example of the benefit of both.

It's a handball, harsh and needed a review to see it, but factually a handball and should be disallowed. It was, again, a major decision the on field referee team got wrong against us that needed a correction.

Our third was wrongly flagged as offside. If he flagged immediately that move stops and we're denied a legitimate chance/goal as a result.

There's no denying it can be improved but these games have been decided on our performances rather than refereeing errors, and that has to be better than going back to a situation with no VAR.

[allmodcons]

Var has to be scrapped. Offside was inconclusive as they couldn't draw a line for one of the Hibs defenders. That was a 3 minute delay.

It’s pretty good at getting offside correct. I’d definitively retain it for that aspect alone.

Without it Campbell’s headed goal on Saturday would not have stood and Hoilett’s late goal last night would have been chopped off too.

[LaMotta]

Article in the Record just posted online today that says Collum has told Dundee United the Sam Dalby Goal should have stood:dunno:

[Kato]

Article in the Record just posted online today that says Collum has told Dundee United the Sam Dalby Goal should have stood:dunno:https://i.ibb.co/KzV2sdnm/Screen-Recording-20250227-232537-Samsung-Internet-2.gif (https://imgbb.com/)

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Article in the Record just posted online today that says Collum has told Dundee United the Sam Dalby Goal should have stood:dunno:

It makes it even more farcical.

VAR takes the time to come to the correct decision, makes the right call - we have seen evidence that this is the correct call - and the CORRECT decision is now being derided?

I really don't get this. Harsh on United? Meh, perhaps. But it PROVEN to be the correct call by actual video evidence.

[Chorley Hibee]

Perhaps Hibs should complain about the amount of decisions the officials on the pitch have got wrong against us, particularly in the last few weeks.

They're absolutely useless.

[SteveHFC]

Makes no difference what they say 2 days later nothing can change that we won 3-1

We have had our share of bad decision along with most clubs that's what you get running council version of var
At very least there should be remote cameras in line with both goal lines along with a camera behind each goal

[blackpoolhibs]

Why do our cameras seem to be in SD, and we only have it seems one each half?

Surely it cant be that more expensive to have HD cameras, and a couple more strategically placed nearer the goalmouth? :confused:

[Centre Hawf]

I swear I'm not an undercover yam.

But much like the Celtic goal, I think VAR were wrong to overturn United's goal as well. While I believe the right decision has been made in general, I only know that because of that camera angle that wasn't part of VAR. I couldn't really tell you if it has hit the guys hand from any of the broadcasted angles that VAR will have used and thus it isn't a clear and obvious error in my opinion.

**** Jim Goodwin though and hopefully our luck continues on Sunday with the worst decision of the season going our way to win it.

[HoboHarry]

I swear I'm not an undercover yam.

But much like the Celtic goal, I think VAR were wrong to overturn United's goal as well. While I believe the right decision has been made in general, I only know that because of that camera angle that wasn't part of VAR. I couldn't really tell you if it has hit the guys hand from any of the broadcasted angles that VAR will have used and thus it isn't a clear and obvious error in my opinion.

**** Jim Goodwin though and hopefully our luck continues on Sunday with the worst decision of the season going our way to win it.
Undercover yam detector is beeping........







:greengrin