Card happy Refs and are the players part of the problem?

[Donegal Hibby]

Looking at the league results so far I’ve noticed we have had about 31 red cards issued to players so far this season, seems a hell of a lot ..

I’d like to see the referees try and keep their cards in their pockets rather than the eagerness they’ve shown this season in brandishing them which have put many players walking a tightrope in games and eventually lead to a lot of these sending offs which IMO has spoilt games .

Manneh is one where I think is first yellow is a foul but seeing as he was just on and his first foul , I think a talking to would have been enough , as to the 2nd one it’s absolute nonsense and I do wonder did their player make the most of it which I think is another thing that’s coming more and more into the game now too …

Interestingly I read a ex Ref saying in his day the player would just have got up and carried on with it .

[Franck Le God]

I agree ref’s are too quick to reach for the cards in this league at times.

I also think they’re far too quick to blow for a foul, when letting the game run for a second or two could see a decent advantage. Something I think ref’s in England do far better than our lot.


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[Onion]

Refs are now so bad in Scotland, I advocate moving to self-regulation. Let the players and managers decide what’s a foul, yellow or red just as we all did down the park on a Sunday 😁

Anyone driving through Sherrifhall roundabout when the lights are out expecting carnage will be amazed at how well the tragic flows, the queues disappear and drivers become more tollerant.

Refs are just trumped up wannabes with a whistle trying to remain relevant. Time to get rid 👍

[Jack]

While refs are undoubtedly a problem there's been a step change in how players play the game.

There's a saying in motor racing 'when the visor comes down the driver becomes a different person'. Totally amiable drivers become animals when the lights go out.

I've noticed more recently football players have become like machines. Their brains have been zipped out for the match and hell mend anyone or anything that gets in the way of the prize.

[Alfred E Newman]

The way players go to ground at the slightest touch now is one of the most annoying things I find about the modern game. It's compounded by refs constantly awarding free kicks for it. Of course, when a player puts in a proper challenge which might actually be a foul, like Manneh on Sunday and Triantis at Ayr, the ref inevitably pulls out the card.

[Donegal Hibby]

The way players go to ground at the slightest touch now is one of the most annoying things I find about the modern game. It's compounded by refs constantly awarding free kicks for it. Of course, when a player puts in a proper challenge which might actually be a foul, like Manneh on Sunday and Triantis at Ayr, the ref inevitably pulls out the card.

I’ve seen referees in games at times when there’s been a first time foul by a player having a word while keeping his cards in his pocket , you know exactly what they’re saying in … right , I’m letting you away with it this time but next one and your in the book . It’s basically good refereeing where the referee uses a bit of common sense rather than the card happy approach which I think we have seen this season. The Ref could easily have done this in Manneh’s case IMO.

[Eyrie]

The way players go to ground at the slightest touch now is one of the most annoying things I find about the modern game. It's compounded by refs constantly awarding free kicks for it. Of course, when a player puts in a proper challenge which might actually be a foul, like Manneh on Sunday and Triantis at Ayr, the ref inevitably pulls out the card.

Agreed.

The referees are encouraging cheating rather than treating the divers with the contempt they deserve.

[CentreLine]

Players are definitely part of the problem and I would go so far as to say the major part of the problem. Cheating is persistent; diving for fouls in strategic positions or to break up attacks; screaming in agony to draw attention to their theatrics; claiming for the advantage every time a ball goes out of play; stealing yards at every dead ball situation, etc., etc..
With all that list, the one that really gets me is the constant effort to get an opponent sent off. Especially when a player has been booked and opposition try their damndest to get the booked player involved in a fracas knowing the referee is likely to just book both players involved.
I forget who it was but I was impressed with the referee that pulled Shinnie up in the Aberdeen game for his early theatrics and shut him down completely. More of that please.

[HarpOnHibee]

31 red cards. 2 for The Rangers. One of them in a 2-0 victory at Ibrox against St Johnstone in the 81st minute and the second one in a 3-1 victory at Tannadice in the 95th minute.

We've had 5 red cards this season. Of which at least 4 were arguably nowhere near being red cards at all.

[Just_Jimmy]

Refs are now so bad in Scotland, I advocate moving to self-regulation. Let the players and managers decide what’s a foul, yellow or red just as we all did down the park on a Sunday [emoji16]

Anyone driving through Sherrifhall roundabout when the lights are out expecting carnage will be amazed at how well the tragic flows, the queues disappear and drivers become more tollerant.

Refs are just trumped up wannabes with a whistle trying to remain relevant. Time to get rid [emoji106]Great shout, let's play any man in too.

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[Just_Jimmy]

31 red cards. 2 for The Rangers. One of them in a 2-0 victory at Ibrox against St Johnstone in the 81st minute and the second one in a 3-1 victory at Tannadice in the 95th minute.

We've had 5 red cards this season. Of which at least 4 were arguably nowhere near being red cards at all.Tbf, the rangers one at Tannadice was also a joke. I can't comment on the other one.

What bothers me more is that there will have been numerous times when a rangers player should have been booked or 2nd yellow that's been allowed to go when it wouldn't for any other club.

Scottish football is bent.

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[HarpOnHibee]

Tbf, the rangers one at Tannadice was also a joke. I can't comment on the other one.

What bothers me more is that there will have been numerous times when a rangers player should have been booked or 2nd yellow that's been allowed to go when it wouldn't for any other club.

Scottish football is bent.

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There's been moments in their games against us where straight red cards would have been handed out were it the other way around. Such as the studs in challenges when we played them at Easter Road. Challenges that were simply ignored by the ref, by VAR and of course, by the media. Oh and not forgetting the blatant and deliberate handball at Ibrox to prevent a shot from reaching the goal which would have seen any other player from any other team being red carded, but not even a booking...

[LoaningCrHibbie]

The way players go to ground at the slightest touch now is one of the most annoying things I find about the modern game. It's compounded by refs constantly awarding free kicks for it. Of course, when a player puts in a proper challenge which might actually be a foul, like Manneh on Sunday and Triantis at Ayr, the ref inevitably pulls out the card. I agree; it's happening in every match these days. The slightest touch and a player goes down like a ton of bricks, rolls over 5 or 6 times and then lies face down, then their arm is raised before banging it down on the grass as if their leg is broken. The thing is why are the referees falling for it ? (sorry for pun) let's call it what it is (cheating) it needs to be called out by the SFA.

[Donegal Hibby]

I think it was in the Celtic v Bayern Munich game where the commentator said after one of the Celtic players was challenged ‘ why did he not just go down ? ‘ . I think there’s too much of this creeping into the game as it is .

[easty]

Looking at the league results so far I’ve noticed we have had about 31 red cards issued to players so far this season, seems a hell of a lot ..

I’d like to see the referees try and keep their cards in their pockets rather than the eagerness they’ve shown this season in brandishing them which have put many players walking a tightrope in games and eventually lead to a lot of these sending offs which IMO has spoilt games .

Manneh is one where I think is first yellow is a foul but seeing as he was just on and his first foul , I think a talking to would have been enough , as to the 2nd one it’s absolute nonsense and I do wonder did their player make the most of it which I think is another thing that’s coming more and more into the game now too …

Interestingly I read a ex Ref saying in his day the player would just have got up and carried on with it .

I don't think we can really argue too much about Manneh's first yellow. Just on the park or not, it's a yellow card challenge. The 2nd one is ridiculous though. Even if you're going to give a foul, it's never worth a booking.

Your last point, the ref is right, but...we nowadays we see players not get fouls when they try to stay up, and it doesn't always benefit their team. I can understand players going down and waiting for the whistle now.

It'd be great if referees could ref with consistency. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in whether a foul is given or not. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in to determine how friendly the refs get with them, or how dismissive they are.

[HarpOnHibee]

I agree; it's happening in every match these days. The slightest touch and a player goes down like a ton of bricks, rolls over 5 or 6 times and then lies face down, then their arm is raised before banging it down on the grass as if their leg is broken. The thing is why are the referees falling for it ? (sorry for pun) let's call it what it is (cheating) it needs to be called out by the SFA.

They're not falling for it. They know the player is cheating. They're in on it. The player knows they're in on it. It's an act played by both parties involved.

[Not In The Know]

The way players go to ground at the slightest touch now is one of the most annoying things I find about the modern game. It's compounded by refs constantly awarding free kicks for it. Of course, when a player puts in a proper challenge which might actually be a foul, like Manneh on Sunday and Triantis at Ayr, the ref inevitably pulls out the card.


The ref in the Villa V Liverpool game was great at letting things go / flow.

[Donegal Hibby]

I don't think we can really argue too much about Manneh's first yellow. Just on the park or not, it's a yellow card challenge. The 2nd one is ridiculous though. Even if you're going to give a foul, it's never worth a booking.

Your last point, the ref is right, but...we nowadays we see players not get fouls when they try to stay up, and it doesn't always benefit their team. I can understand players going down and waiting for the whistle now.

It'd be great if referees could ref with consistency. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in whether a foul is given or not. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in to determine how friendly the refs get with them, or how dismissive they are.

It is a foul no doubt about that but it’s more just clumsy than there’s any intent to hurt the player and I still think rather than being overly eager to book a player for his first foul , having a word in a warning that the next one is a booking would be the right course of action in cases like this IMO .

[easty]

It is a foul no doubt about that but it’s more just clumsy than there’s any intent to hurt the player and I still think rather than being overly eager to book a player for his first foul , having a word in a warning that the next one is a booking would be the right course of action in cases like this IMO .

If Manneh hadn't been booked for the first tackle, then 2 mins later a St Mirren player who was already on a booking made an identical tackle, I'd want him sent off for a second bookable offence. It was late, high and it was clumsy. I don't think you can just let a player off because he's just on the park. The foul was worthy of a yellow, in my opinion.

[southern hibby]

I’ll start by saying I think some of the refs decisions are absolutely shocking. However that being said I genuinely believe that players from all teams are trying their hardest at each incident to make things worse than they actually are.

For example. How easy does Lewis Miller go down when hardly even touched? Is he being coached to do this? How often does a defender feign a head knock when defending knowing the ref will stop the game and probably give the drop ball to the defending team?

I’ve said numerous times that if we didn’t stop the game and allowed the physio’s to come on when a player goes down ( awarded a drop
Ball if the ball hits the Physio the same as if it hits a ref ), but keep
Playing then I believe it would cut a lot of play acting and time wasting out of the game.

On another note, I think a lot of refs give decisions because they can’t keep up with play and it’s easier to stop the game and get a breather. We sub players who are knackered after 60 minutes but yet I’ve never ever seen a ref subbed or heard of one being subbed due to physically knackered. This means that obviously all refs are better athletes than half the players.


GGTTH

[Donegal Hibby]

If Manneh hadn't been booked for the first tackle, then 2 mins later a St Mirren player who was already on a booking made an identical tackle, I'd want him sent off for a second bookable offence. It was late, high and it was clumsy. I don't think you can just let a player off because he's just on the park. The foul was worthy of a yellow, in my opinion.

I think there was one done on Rocky at one point were the saints who was already on a booking caught him late , the referee didn’t book him and I had no issue with it as I didn’t remember him making any other late tackles before it .

Mannehs first yellow was for his first tackle . I don’t know how many times have I watched Shinnie over the years repeatedly fouling players and escaping punishment, only recently I’ve watched Devlin in a game commit 7/8 fouls and also get away with it .

My own opinion on it is if it’s the players first offence , have a word of warning and keep the cards in the pocket. We have seen this season like in Triantis case how a soft booking can spoil a game in the effect it has .

I’ve watched quite a few of the games that the 31 red cards have came in and honestly there’s a fair few of them that a soft booking which doesn’t have to be given has lead to a red card .

[easty]

Mannehs first yellow was for his first tackle . I don’t know how many times have I watched Shinnie over the years repeatedly fouling players and escaping punishment, only recently I’ve watched Devlin in a game commit 7/8 fouls and also get away with it .

My own opinion on it is if it’s the players first offence , have a word of warning and keep the cards in the pocket. We have seen this season like in Triantis case how a soft booking can spoil a game in the effect it has .


I think a yellow card offence should be judged on the tackle, not on who makes it, or when it's made. If Manneh, Triantis or anyone else makes a tackle worthy of a yellow, then it's their fault they're booked, not the referees, regardless of what min of the game it is.

On your top point above, I posted the below already on this thread. Refs absolutely treat certain players differently, and I don't like it.




It'd be great if referees could ref with consistency. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in whether a foul is given or not. It shouldn't matter what strip the players are in to determine how friendly the refs get with them, or how dismissive they are.

[LoaningCrHibbie]

They're not falling for it. They know the player is cheating. They're in on it. The player knows they're in on it. It's an act played by both parties involved. We can't leave it like that. It needs to stop. You see players occasionally booked for diving to try and get a penalty so if it's ok to do that then book players for cheating outside the box. It would soon stop.

[Paulie Walnuts]

How far do we take the ‘first tackle is free’ logic?

Mannehs first tackle for me was as clear a booking as you’ll ever see. There can be no argument it was a red, because it clearly wasn’t, and I’m surprised there’s an argument as to whether it should be a yellow. He was late, nowhere near the ball and took the guy out. If you let that go because ‘first tackle is free’ then you’ve got 5 subs coming on later in games who get to have two goes at tackles like that without any real concern. 10 promising attacks in a game ended with little in the way of a deterrent.

It would be to footballs detriment to start letting people off with blatant yellows because it was their first bad tackle imo.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think there was one done on Rocky at one point were the saints who was already on a booking caught him late , the referee didn’t book him and I had no issue with it as I didn’t remember him making any other late tackles before it .

Mannehs first yellow was for his first tackle . I don’t know how many times have I watched Shinnie over the years repeatedly fouling players and escaping punishment, only recently I’ve watched Devlin in a game commit 7/8 fouls and also get away with it .

My own opinion on it is if it’s the players first offence , have a word of warning and keep the cards in the pocket. We have seen this season like in Triantis case how a soft booking can spoil a game in the effect it has .

I’ve watched quite a few of the games that the 31 red cards have came in and honestly there’s a fair few of them that a soft booking which doesn’t have to be given has lead to a red card .

Graeme Shinnie has received more cards in the time he’s played in Scotland than any other player. Cammy Devlin has commited 3 fouls in 4 games this season. Every other game has been less.

[Donegal Hibby]

How far do we take the ‘first tackle is free’ logic?

Mannehs first tackle for me was as clear a booking as you’ll ever see. There can be no argument it was a red, because it clearly wasn’t, and I’m surprised there’s an argument as to whether it should be a yellow. He was late, nowhere near the ball and took the guy out. If you let that go because ‘first tackle is free’ then you’ve got 5 subs coming on later in games who get to have two goes at tackles like that without any real concern. 10 promising attacks in a game ended with little in the way of a deterrent.

It would be to footballs detriment to start letting people off with blatant yellows because it was their first bad tackle imo.

The ‘ first tackle is free ‘ isn’t what I’m saying though , depending on the tackle in if it’s not intentional or dangerous and is the player’s first offence I think warning the player is sufficient. I don’t think Mannehs was either and it could be said even though it was clumsy from Manneh it was the saints players momentum that took him into our player ( pause 2:12 )…

https://youtu.be/rspxJdVdpzA?si=_Qca0CH7DBBnl_SI

The amount of yellow and red cards this season I would guess are up considerably from last season. I don’t think it’s a case of players are dirtier but more there’s to many soft fouls picking up cards which is down to the referees being to card happy , Mannehs 2nd proves this as does the referee immediately giving us a penalty for the ball hitting the boy in the face that he’s reacted to quickly to again.


Graeme Shinnie has received more cards in the time he’s played in Scotland than any other player. Cammy Devlin has commited 3 fouls in 4 games this season. Every other game has been less.

I’ve actually watched games where Shinnie has been walking a tightrope from being on a yellow and commit numerous fouls without receiving a 2nd yellow.. has to Devlin where you getting that he’s only committed 3 fouls in 4 games this season and every other game has been less ? .

[Paulie Walnuts]

The ‘ first tackle is free ‘ isn’t what I’m saying though , depending on the tackle in if it’s not intentional or dangerous and is the player’s first offence I think warning the player is sufficient. I don’t think Mannehs was either and it could be said even though it was clumsy from Manneh it was the saints players momentum that took him into our player ( pause 2:12 )…

https://youtu.be/rspxJdVdpzA?si=_Qca0CH7DBBnl_SI

The amount of yellow and red cards this season I would guess are up considerably from last season. I don’t think it’s a case of players are dirtier but more there’s to many soft fouls picking up cards which is down to the referees being to card happy , Mannehs 2nd proves this as does the referee immediately giving us a penalty for the ball hitting the boy in the face that he’s reacted to quickly to again.



I’ve actually watched games where Shinnie has been walking a tightrope from being on a yellow and commit numerous fouls without receiving a 2nd yellow.. has to Devlin where you getting that he’s only committed 3 fouls in 4 games this season and every other game has been less ? .

Not for me. Giving people the ability to throw themselves into any sort of challenge as long as they’ve got half a chance of getting the ball knowing that they won’t get booked as long as they aren’t dangerous isn’t the way forward for football for me. Allowing everyone on the pitch a tackle like Mannehs first booking for their first tackle without any sort of punishment would ruin the game. It would also lead to the good attacking players we all want to watch getting injured much more frequently.

Cammy Devlins stats are here - https://www.whoscored.com/players/425105/matchstatistics/cameron-devlin

Match statistics and then the defensive tab show he’s never commited more than 3 this season. On average he commits 1.4 per game. He’s never commited 7 or 8 without punishment.

[xyz23jc]

Great shout, let's play any man in too.

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Uppies n Doonies Jedburgh stylee....I'm in...Lol! Hertz a******** wid still huv haun up claimin offside too... Lol! :greengrin

[Donegal Hibby]

Not for me. Giving people the ability to throw themselves into any sort of challenge as long as they’ve got half a chance of getting the ball knowing that they won’t get booked as long as they aren’t dangerous isn’t the way forward for football for me. Allowing everyone on the pitch a tackle like Mannehs first booking for their first tackle without any sort of punishment would ruin the game. It would also lead to the good attacking players we all want to watch getting injured much more frequently.

Cammy Devlins stats are here - https://www.whoscored.com/players/425105/matchstatistics/cameron-devlin

Match statistics and then the defensive tab show he’s never commited more than 3 this season. On average he commits 1.4 per game. He’s never commited 7 or 8 without punishment.

Again though I’m not saying that every tackle should be overlooked, especially not ones that are deliberate and dangerous , Manneh’s is neither IMO .

Your saying it’s a tackle by Manneh though as i said he’s clumsy in an attempt to get the ball but I do think it’s the saints players momentum that takes him into Manneh , for me it’s more of a collision rather than a tackle…

Funnily enough I think the player that’s rolling about after it is the same one that goes down like a sack of tatties holding his head for the 2nd yellow who gets his head rubbed by another saints player in a well done you reaction…

I think one of the saints players picked up a booking for next to nothing in the game too which is what’s ruining the game far more this season in soft bookings that a fair few have resulted in quite a few of the 31 red cards issued so far that spoils the games , Triantis was one that picked up a very soft booking that lead to him receiving his marching orders ..

As to Devlin I think stats are more a guide than to be trusted as I heard Clement crying about how they totally dominated and had 30 shots , more shots than they had all season when they lost to Queens Park …

Devlin is one of the dirtiest players in the league IMO and I have seen games where he has been like a wee jack russell nipping at players ankles and getting away with it regularly and there was a game earlier this season that I watched with another Hibby and in knowing what he’s like we counted how many times he committed a foul in the game and it was 7/8 . He wasn’t booked and was very good throughout it at lifting his arms up and looking innocent.. horrible, dirty wee player that likes to go around kicking players with limited ability IMO …

[Paulie Walnuts]

Again though I’m not saying that every tackle should be overlooked, especially not ones that are deliberate and dangerous , Manneh’s is neither IMO .

Your saying it’s a tackle by Manneh though as i said he’s clumsy in an attempt to get the ball but I do think it’s the saints players momentum that takes him into Manneh , for me it’s more of a collision rather than a tackle…

Funnily enough I think the player that’s rolling about after it is the same one that goes down like a sack of tatties holding his head for the 2nd yellow who gets his head rubbed by another saints player in a well done you reaction…

I think one of the saints players picked up a booking for next to nothing in the game too which is what’s ruining the game far more this season in soft bookings that a fair few have resulted in quite a few of the 31 red cards issued so far that spoils the games , Triantis was one that picked up a very soft booking that lead to him receiving his marching orders ..

As to Devlin I think stats are more a guide than to be trusted as I heard Clement crying about how they totally dominated and had 30 shots , more shots than they had all season when they lost to Queens Park …

Devlin is one of the dirtiest players in the league IMO and I have seen games where he has been like a wee jack russell nipping at players ankles and getting away with it regularly and there was a game earlier this season that I watched with another Hibby and in knowing what he’s like we counted how many times he committed a foul in the game and it was 7/8 . He wasn’t booked and was very good throughout it at lifting his arms up and looking innocent.. horrible, dirty wee player that likes to go around kicking players with limited ability IMO …

Ok.

You and another Hibs fan did not watch Cammy Devlin commit 7 or 8 fouls and get away with it earlier this season because he hasn’t commited more than 3 in a game this season. If you want to believe Manneh is hard done by because of something you have imagined then crack on.

[Donegal Hibby]

Ok.

You and another Hibs fan did not watch Cammy Devlin commit 7 or 8 fouls and get away with it earlier this season because he hasn’t commited more than 3 in a game this season. If you want to believe Manneh is hard done by because of something you have imagined then crack on.

I’m sorry but I know what I watched as did somebody else too were Devlin persistently made fouls and escaped any punishment…

I know Manneh was hard done by as I think his first one is a foul but nothing more in which the ref could have used some common sense and dealt with it differently…

The 2nd incident is never a yellow card offence IMO though coming from a guy that thought the penalty St Johnstone got against us was a stonewall one yet the one we got against Sevco wasn’t a penalty you probably thought Manneh got what he deserved and everything is just peachy ! :wink:

[easty]

Your saying it’s a tackle by Manneh though as i said he’s clumsy in an attempt to get the ball but I do think it’s the saints players momentum that takes him into Manneh , for me it’s more of a collision rather than a tackle…


C’mon now DH, that’s the kind of nonsense I expect to hear from someone like Kris Boyd defending a Rangers player. Of course it was a tackle, and of course it was a foul. The St Mirren players “momentum” is obviously going that way given that he’s got the ball first and going in that direction.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’m sorry but I know what I watched as did somebody else too were Devlin persistently made fouls and escaped any punishment…

I know Manneh was hard done by as I think his first one is a foul but nothing more in which the ref could have used some common sense and dealt with it differently…

The 2nd incident is never a yellow card offence IMO though coming from a guy that thought the penalty St Johnstone got against us was a stonewall one yet the one we got against Sevco wasn’t a penalty you probably thought Manneh got what he deserved and everything is just peachy ! :wink:

Ok :aok:

[HarpOnHibee]

The first tackle was a late foot. But it was his first action of the game. The ref could have applied some common sense and just had a word with him about it. The tackle wasn't malicious in any way. The second one wasn't even a foul. He makes an honest attempt to jump up for the ball and because he places his hand on the players shoulder to leap up (as players do), the referee deemed it a foul and somehow worthy of a second yellow card.

That's 2 challenges in total a player makes in a game. Booked for his very first action in the game and a 2nd booking for the 2nd challenge he makes in the game that wasn't even a foul. The referee was itching to send him off the moment he came on.

[Donegal Hibby]

C’mon now DH, that’s the kind of nonsense I expect to hear from someone like Kris Boyd defending a Rangers player. Of course it was a tackle, and of course it was a foul. The St Mirren players “momentum” is obviously going that way given that he’s got the ball first and going in that direction.

I’m not saying it’s not a foul but it’s no worse than the one the saints player done on Rocky when caught him late which left him on a heap in the ground that he didn’t get booked for either.