Putting faith in the youth

[MacGruber]

We've gave Molotnikov a 4 year contract - a creative player in the middle of the park but seem loathe to use him. Only getting a game v Clydebank (where he was MOTM) seems to be as far as the trust goes. Disappointed today especially, missing Newell, Levitt and Manneh not up to speed he's not quoted. I think what the game was crying out for today was creativity, especially in the middle of the park. Kwon delivered exactly what he has shown and evidenced the whole time he has been here - absolutely nothing. Also a loan player to boot.
Just think we could put a bit more faith in the young lads

[Unseen work]

If they’re good enough they’ll play, I’ve no doubt about that

I think rudi has done really well at the start of the season, think he really needs a loan playing week in week out

Don’t think I’d have put him on either.

Hoilett however, could have done with his ability on the ball imo

[TrinityHFC]

We've gave Molotnikov a 4 year contract - a creative player in the middle of the park but seem loathe to use him. Only getting a game v Clydebank (where he was MOTM) seems to be as far as the trust goes. Disappointed today especially, missing Newell, Levitt and Manneh not up to speed he's not quoted. I think what the game was crying out for today was creativity, especially in the middle of the park. Kwon delivered exactly what he has shown and evidenced the whole time he has been here - absolutely nothing. Also a loan player to boot.
Just think we could put a bit more faith in the young lads

Today was not really a day to be thinking of Rudi instead of Kwon. Kwon wasn’t great but he is still a physical presence that played a part in at least not losing the game in the end.

I think Rudi is a good example actually that these young guys need to be fed in at the right times and then not played at the right times too.

It’s not like the fans are going to tolerate not getting results. Check the match thread today.

[Helensburghhibs]

Not saying rudi would have been the player I would have played, but kwon is a man down. He does nothing, on or off the ball

[Ozyhibby]

Whether it’s Rudi or not, todays midfield performance was woeful and Kwon should have been switched earlier and Campbell should not have finished. To not create a single chance against St. Mirren is lamentable.


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[The Modfather]

If they’re good enough they’ll play, I’ve no doubt about that

I think rudi has done really well at the start of the season, think he really needs a loan playing week in week out

Don’t think I’d have put him on either.

Hoilett however, could have done with his ability on the ball imo

Much like we’ve seen with key years development wasted for the likes of Johnson. Are we seeing the same with Rudi? He started the league cup group stage really well, but has played very little first team football this season. Is he likely to be anymore developed going into next season? He got a good amount of game time up to the Dundee Utd away implosion. Since then he’s had 21 minutes of football in the league in the last 18 games. Plus 90 against Clydebank in the cup. Yet we didn’t loan him out in January.

I think the way we develop players is an area badly needing reviewed.

[MacGruber]

If they’re good enough they’ll play, I’ve no doubt about that

I think rudi has done really well at the start of the season, think he really needs a loan playing week in week out

Don’t think I’d have put him on either.

Hoilett however, could have done with his ability on the ball imo

I've no doubt in the mantra 'if they're good enough they will play', I just don't believe it's applied at Hibs as much as other clubs. Guess it comes down to the coaches in situ and their philosophy/decisions. Lee Johnson wasn't much for trusting youth, Monty was more so. I think Gray likes to rely on the tried and trusted experience.

Here's a hypothetical one - I think if James Wilson was at Hibs we would yet to see him. 17 yr old (18 now) slight, not physical enough - he wouldn't have got his shot yet. Whether Wilson is just levels above Cleland or Landers I've no idea but firmly believe we would still have went Myko. Is Myko in on merit? Kwon? Neither fall into the category of showing anything good enough to play, they won't lose their places to kids though regardless.

[Iain G]

Whether it’s Rudi or not, todays midfield performance was woeful and Kwon should have been switched earlier and Campbell should not have finished. To not create a single chance against St. Mirren is lamentable.


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Didn't we have 8 shots/attepmts?

[Hiber-nation]

Didn't we have 8 shots/attepmts?

We had none on target.

[Bishop Hibee]

Molotnikov must be pushing for a starting place in Campbell’s position.

[Iain G]

We had none on target.

But we still had 8 attempts!

[Green forever]

We had none on target.

Haven't seen the game so not arguing but LiveScore showing as us having one shot on target in their stats.

[flash]

Whether it’s Rudi or not, todays midfield performance was woeful and Kwon should have been switched earlier and Campbell should not have finished. To not create a single chance against St. Mirren is lamentable.


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Pretty sure a free header from about 6 yards constitutes a chance.

[Hiber-nation]

Haven't seen the game so not arguing but LiveScore showing as us having one shot on target in their stats.

Maybe, BBC said none and I can't recall any.

[brianmc]

But we still had 8 attempts!

I'll bet you were quite the gigolo back in the day 🤣

[TrinityHFC]

I've no doubt in the mantra 'if they're good enough they will play', I just don't believe it's applied at Hibs as much as other clubs. Guess it comes down to the coaches in situ and their philosophy/decisions. Lee Johnson wasn't much for trusting youth, Monty was more so. I think Gray likes to rely on the tried and trusted experience.

Here's a hypothetical one - I think if James Wilson was at Hibs we would yet to see him. 17 yr old (18 now) slight, not physical enough - he wouldn't have got his shot yet. Whether Wilson is just levels above Cleland or Landers I've no idea but firmly believe we would still have went Myko. Is Myko in on merit? Kwon? Neither fall into the category of showing anything good enough to play, they won't lose their places to kids though regardless.

Why should we care about what a team in the bottom half who haven’t beaten us this season are doing?

Myko and Kwon have both been transferred for £1m plus. We will see what happens with Wilson.

[Pretty Boy]

Managers want to win football games. It keeps them in their current job and puts them in the frame for better ones.

If a player, regardless of age, helps them in that regard then they will play them.

[MacGruber]

Why should we care about what a team in the bottom half who haven’t beaten us this season are doing?

Myko and Kwon have both been transferred for £1m plus. We will see what happens with Wilson.

No idea what the relevance is in how much players have transferred for in the past!

[Iain G]

I'll bet you were quite the gigolo back in the day 🤣

What do you mean back in the day! Cheek! 🤣

[TrinityHFC]

No idea what the relevance is in how much players have transferred for in the past!

You don’t see why players like Kwon and Myko are in the squad ahead of kids.

It is fairly relevant that we are talking about players who have previously been transferred for significant sums and therefore will be a bit more highly rated and trusted than kids from our youth team. If any of them go on to be transferred for those amounts in their careers then they’ll have done very well. If we had youth players better than Kwon or Myko then they’d be in the squad.

[MacGruber]

You don’t see why players like Kwon and Myko are in the squad ahead of kids.

It is fairly relevant that we are talking about players who have previously been transferred for significant sums and therefore will be a bit more highly rated and trusted than kids from our youth team. If any of them go on to be transferred for those amounts in their careers then they’ll have done very well. If we had youth players better than Kwon or Myko then they’d be in the squad.

No as it happens - I don't see what Kwon & Myko are bringing that is earning their spot. Kwon has offered nothing and when he's been in the team played really poor. Not really bothered about how much players have went for in the past, only bothered about how they play for Hibs. Rowan Vine or Islam Feruz aren't going down in folklore for their efforts in green and white. Was worried about today seeing Kwon in based on how he's played for us and it went as expected, real poor again. Don't think he's in the side on merit. Maybe he's fantastic at training, presumably he runs faster!

[PHeffernan]

Why should we care about what a team in the bottom half who haven’t beaten us this season are doing?

Myko and Kwon have both been transferred for £1m plus. We will see what happens with Wilson.

Is it because this time next week they are likely to be 1 point behind us having closed the gap by 6 points in 7 league games? :wink:

[Paulie Walnuts]

Much like we’ve seen with key years development wasted for the likes of Johnson. Are we seeing the same with Rudi? He started the league cup group stage really well, but has played very little first team football this season. Is he likely to be anymore developed going into next season? He got a good amount of game time up to the Dundee Utd away implosion. Since then he’s had 21 minutes of football in the league in the last 18 games. Plus 90 against Clydebank in the cup. Yet we didn’t loan him out in January.

I think the way we develop players is an area badly needing reviewed.

Murray Johnson’s development hasn’t been wasted at all. He isn’t good enough for our first team, so he went on loan to Airdrie, to allow him to continue his development. He hasn’t performed at that level, despite plenty opportunities and stopped getting a game. That’s a fairly clear indicator that his development wouldn’t be better served by being dropped into our first team and getting battered every week.

[The Modfather]

Murray Johnson’s development hasn’t been wasted at all. He isn’t good enough for our first team, so he went on loan to Airdrie, to allow him to continue his development. He hasn’t performed at that level, despite plenty opportunities and stopped getting a game. That’s a fairly clear indicator that his development wouldn’t be better served by being dropped into our first team and getting battered every week.

The season before we brought him back from loan at QOTS for a short term keeper crisis while signing Boruc and put him back in the U19’s/4th choice behind Marshall, Wollacot & Boruc. That was a seasons development lost.

[HIBS NUTS]

The season before we brought him back from loan at QOTS for a short term keeper crisis while signing Boruc and put him back in the U19’s/4th choice behind Marshall, Wollacot & Boruc. That was a seasons development lost.
MJ loans haven’t been great , he’s now been sent to QOTS and was on the bench.
Surely you send him to a team that needs a first team keeper.

[TrinityHFC]

MJ loans haven’t been great , he’s now been sent to QOTS and was on the bench.
Surely you send him to a team that needs a first team keeper.

If he wants to be Hibs first team keeper he should be walking in to any of these teams at this age. I think we’ve tried to get him football but he isn’t cementing a place at that level. Got a bit of coverage for some of the teams linked with him when he was younger but ultimately he didn’t end up at those teams and he looks like he might not reach the potential he may have had.

[McD]

The season before we brought him back from loan at QOTS for a short term keeper crisis while signing Boruc and put him back in the U19’s/4th choice behind Marshall, Wollacot & Boruc. That was a seasons development lost.


To be fair to the club, Marshall and wallacott were injured in the space of a warm up and 20 minutes of play in the same match, we needed 2 keepers until we knew for sure that at least one of the injured pair would be back quickly. I think we were playing every 3-4 days between league and Europe at the point

[The Modfather]

To be fair to the club, Marshall and wallacott were injured in the space of a warm up and 20 minutes of play in the same match, we needed 2 keepers until we knew for sure that at least one of the injured pair would be back quickly. I think we were playing every 3-4 days between league and Europe at the point

I’m sure at the time it looked like a short term crisis, we should have signed a journeyman pro for a month or so like we did with that guy from Clyde whose name escapes me, Craig Mitchell, and let Johnson play first team football for a season.

I just think the pathway to the first team, development of those in the 19s, not having a b team, the loans we choose for our youngsters and the likes of Rudi wasting away not playing any first team minutes this season are areas we should be reviewing with plenty of scope for improvement in how we do thing’s IMO.

[followhibs]

Lee Johnston, Brian Mcdermott, Ben Kensell and Ian Gordon dismantled a very strong U19 squad where there were 4/5 POTENTIAL young players for absolute mediocre journeyman so they could hang on to there jobs with no thought of the future of our club.
Every window we just bought more and more players hence the ridiculous bloated squad, zero opportunity for our youth.
Rudi is the only youth player in 5 seasons that is in our current squad and he's played less than 8 games worth of minutes all season. played 1 game in 3 months against a team 6 leagues below.
The Loans system is just luck, Rudi went to Stirling Albion for 6 months hardly played so would be deemed as a bad loan then gets into our first team?
James Wilson has played 16 games for Hearts started and off the bench consistently, he physically needs to improve however he has other positive attributes, so no loan required he's developing within the first team, its not rocket science.
Our young players need opportunity and time.
Losing Landers to EPL should be no surprise.

[followhibs]

We've gave Molotnikov a 4 year contract - a creative player in the middle of the park but seem loathe to use him. Only getting a game v Clydebank (where he was MOTM) seems to be as far as the trust goes. Disappointed today especially, missing Newell, Levitt and Manneh not up to speed he's not quoted. I think what the game was crying out for today was creativity, especially in the middle of the park. Kwon delivered exactly what he has shown and evidenced the whole time he has been here - absolutely nothing. Also a loan player to boot.
Just think we could put a bit more faith in the young lads

Totally agree:thumbsup:

[PHeffernan]

I’m sure at the time it looked like a short term crisis, we should have signed a journeyman pro for a month or so like we did with that guy from Clyde whose name escapes me, Craig Mitchell, and let Johnson play first team football for a season.

I just think the pathway to the first team, development of those in the 19s, not having a b team, the loans we choose for our youngsters and the likes of Rudi wasting away not playing any first team minutes this season are areas we should be reviewing with plenty of scope for improvement in how we do thing’s IMO.

Do you mean David Mitchell who we signed on a 2 year contract?
He is the current Partick Thistle keeper.

[PHeffernan]

If he wants to be Hibs first team keeper he should be walking in to any of these teams at this age. I think we’ve tried to get him football but he isn’t cementing a place at that level. Got a bit of coverage for some of the teams linked with him when he was younger but ultimately he didn’t end up at those teams and he looks like he might not reach the potential he may have had.

At only 20 years old Murray Johnson still has lots of time to make it as a goalkeeper at Hibs.
Very few keepers are playing at a good level before the age of 24 with many still going out on loan in their mid 20's.
I have just looked at all games played in the top 4 tiers of Scottish football this weekend and found only 3 goalkeepers younger than Murray played and all 3 were loans playing at a low level with the highest attendance of the games involving them being 640. With respect Murray is better than that and i'm sure Hibs will get him a better gig than that in the summer.

The keeper younger than Murray playing at the highest level this weekend was for Dumbarton who are in administration. They are worst team in the 3rd tier of Scottish football and the goalkeeper was loaned to them this month because they had no money to pay for one.
The other two goalkeepers younger than Murray who played this weekend were in the 4th tier for Stranraer and Peterhead.

Murray will still be 20 when he goes out on loan next year. Supporters need to be patient. If he is Hibs keeper when he is 22 he will be ahead of schedule and almost certainly the youngest in the SPL.

[HIBS NUTS]

If he wants to be Hibs first team keeper he should be walking in to any of these teams at this age. I think we’ve tried to get him football but he isn’t cementing a place at that level. Got a bit of coverage for some of the teams linked with him when he was younger but ultimately he didn’t end up at those teams and he looks like he might not reach the potential he may have had.
You can’t cement your place in any team if you don’t play.
He should be playing for a team he’s going to get game time.
I would much rather he played in a league 3 team, than not play for QOTS.

[McD]

I’m sure at the time it looked like a short term crisis, we should have signed a journeyman pro for a month or so like we did with that guy from Clyde whose name escapes me, Craig Mitchell, and let Johnson play first team football for a season.

I just think the pathway to the first team, development of those in the 19s, not having a b team, the loans we choose for our youngsters and the likes of Rudi wasting away not playing any first team minutes this season are areas we should be reviewing with plenty of scope for improvement in how we do thing’s IMO.



Totally agree with your last paragraph mate, we never seem to give the likes of Landers, Cleland, etc a few run outs. We had myko and Bowie on the bench today, I know we’re easing Bowie back in, but given his performances this season, I’d rather see cleland on the bench than myko.

[PHeffernan]

You can’t cement your place in any team if you don’t play.
He should be playing for a team he’s going to get game time.
I would much rather he played in a league 3 team, than not play for QOTS.

QOTS are a 3rd tier club.

[followhibs]

You can’t cement your place in any team if you don’t play.
He should be playing for a team he’s going to get game time.
I would much rather he played in a league 3 team, than not play for QOTS.

I have a mate who is a Queens fan there current keeper apparently been playing well so its not a surprise Murray hasn't just walked into the team.

[500miles]

Molotnikov's problem is he's not there yet for playing in the 10. In our only early win of the season he got bullied and had to drift wide to get success. We're playing with wing backs rather than wingers now, and I don't think Rudi really showed that he could do that against Clydebank either.

On top of that, I don't think that yesterday was a game for players who excel running with the ball.

[easty]

Molotnikov's problem is he's not there yet for playing in the 10. In our only early win of the season he got bullied and had to drift wide to get success. We're playing with wing backs rather than wingers now, and I don't think Rudi really showed that he could do that against Clydebank either.

On top of that, I don't think that yesterday was a game for players who excel running with the ball.

I don't even think Molotnikov is/has a problem just now. He's 18 year old and he's played 17 times for Hibs this season, and he's got 3 goals. Regular for Scotland under 19's. That's pretty good development as far as I'm concerned.

He'll play a good few more times between now and the end of the season I'm sure.

Totally agree about the bit above in bold

[500miles]

I don't even think Molotnikov is/has a problem just now. He's 18 year old and he's played 17 times for Hibs this season, and he's got 3 goals. Regular for Scotland under 19's. That's pretty good development as far as I'm concerned.

He'll play a good few more times between now and the end of the season I'm sure.

Totally agree about the bit above in boldIt's only a problem if we expect to rely on him. I'm sure DG will be happy with his development.

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