Dean Cleland

[truehibernian]

It’s time to get him into the first team squads. He’s scoring for fun and we really need to give promising young players a chance rather than do the stagnated development approach. Reward his efforts SDG and get him minutes.

[TrinityHFC]

It’s time to get him into the first team squads. He’s scoring for fun and we really need to give promising young players a chance rather than do the stagnated development approach. Reward his efforts SDG and get him minutes.

We’ve had the same chat about various youth players over the years. If they are better than what we have they will get minutes. If not they won’t. Unless you want to give up a run at third to give more young players time for the hell of it?

[DaveF]

Isn't he physically, miles off 1st team level?

[JohnM1875]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.

[Bostonhibby]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.Tend to agree, we will never know until we try the guys out to see if they can kick on, maybe the best of them will seize the opportunity irrespective of the perfectly reasonable points about lack of physical development?

Otherwise we just run the risk of being a conveyor belt of players who rarely kick a ball for the first team?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Dashing Bob S]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.

Sadly the league has changed. Struggling to think of an SPL who routinely give youth a chance. Perhaps Motherwell…

[JohnM1875]

Sadly the league has changed. Struggling to think of an SPL who routinely give youth a chance. Perhaps Motherwell…

I know it's only a few examples, but they've made a **** tonne of money by doing so in Turnbull, Campbell and 'well are about to cash in on Miller.

Three class players, granted. But without giving them an opportunity in the first team there's no chance they make the money they have done.

[CapitalGreen]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.

We saw Landers get a chance and he was miles off it.

[B.H.F.C]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.

Will be interesting to see if any of them actually make a career of it though.

It’s so hard to make it these days. The good ones will generally get a chance. Don’t think we’ve let many go who have made us regret it.

[JohnM1875]

We saw Landers get a chance and he was miles off it.

As miles off it as Myko, McKirdy, Amos or Jair?

Get the laddie involved in matchday squads or we'll lose him for peanuts.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We saw Landers get a chance and he was miles off it.

:agree:

If it’s ’another Landers’ or ‘another Laidlaw’ then we shouldn’t be playing him.

Neither Landers or Laidlaw will ever play at our level. They’ve had to leave because they’re not good enough to get a chance here, not because they’re not getting it.

[Donegal Hibby]

The league’s unbelievably tight , so unless they are really talented in better than our first team players it’s hard to see the manager just putting them in to gain experience. There is something else…

I’m sure Cleland is a good prospect and seems to be scoring goals for the development team but you throw him into a game like we have tomorrow where he’s up against a player like Gogic or Taylor at 6’ 2 it’s an entirely different ball game for him .

[B.H.F.C]

:agree:

If it’s ’another Landers’ or ‘another Laidlaw’ then we shouldn’t be playing him.

Neither Landers or Laidlaw will ever play at our level. They’ve had to leave because they’re not good enough to get a chance here, not because they’re not getting it.

Bit early to say that about Landers IMO. He’s 17.

Laidlaw at 20, without a first team appearance for anyone to his name is a different thing. If you’ve not made any appearances at senior level, at that age, you’re struggling IMO.

[The Modfather]

Will be interesting to see if any of them actually make a career of it though.

It’s so hard to make it these days. The good ones will generally get a chance. Don’t think we’ve let many go who have made us regret it.

We’ve brought duds in and given them a chance or a space on the bench this season alone in the likes of McKirdy, Amos, Kwon, Myko, JDH. What would we have lost putting some of our own youngsters on the bench instead of them and giving them 10 minutes or so in the games that allowed us to do so?

Take McKirdy for example, he was on the bench 17 times this season. Got minimal minutes in 6 of those games, all to run about like a lost little boy, at the expense of our actual youngsters playing in the U18s.

When Steven Fletcher came through did he bridge the gap to the youth team or go straight into the first team at 17? Genuine question. My memory is he wasn’t really ready physically at 17 but would get game time at left wing to give him first team minutes and develop. Are Landers or Clelland physically less ready than Fletcher was or are we just far more reluctant to blood youngsters as no manager will do so for the mid-long term good potentially to his detriment and the benefit of his replacement.

I just look at the last few years and see us churning through woefully inadequate squads and players out of their depth, while enjoying the likes of the European run the youth team had a few seasons ago which didn’t even amount to them getting a space on the bench instead of guys we were actively trying to get rid of

[TrinityHFC]

We’ve brought duds in and given them a chance or a space on the bench this season alone in the likes of McKirdy, Amos, Kwon, Myko, JDH. What would we have lost putting some of our own youngsters on the bench instead of them and giving them 10 minutes or so in the games that allowed us to do so?

Take McKirdy for example, he was on the bench 17 times this season. Got minimal minutes in 6 of those games, all to run about like a lost little boy, at the expense of our actual youngsters playing in the U18s.

When Steven Fletcher came through did he bridge the gap to the youth team or go straight into the first team at 17? Genuine question. My memory is he wasn’t really ready physically at 17 but would get game time at left wing to give him first team minutes and develop. Are Landers or Clelland physically less ready than Fletcher was or are we just far more reluctant to blood youngsters as no manager will do so for the mid-long term good potentially to his detriment and the benefit of his replacement.

I just look at the last few years and see us churning through woefully inadequate squads and players out of their depth, while enjoying the likes of the European run the youth team had a few seasons ago which didn’t even amount to them getting a space on the bench instead of guys we were actively trying to get rid of

Most of our kids won’t even get close to the career McKirdy has had. That’s the reality.

We get this chat constantly about young players who go on to do absolutely nothing.

[Tambo]

Can we make space for him on the bench? SDG would probably rather have Boyle/Gayle/Bowie/Myko/Youan.

I would like to see him getting involved more near the end of the season but can understand why he's not featured yet.

Would he want to sign another contract to not get a chance?

[The Modfather]

Most of our kids won’t even get close to the career McKirdy has had. That’s the reality.

We get this chat constantly about young players who go on to do absolutely nothing.

I’m sure they could replicate McKirdy’s Hibs career though, at a fraction of the cost.

[PHeffernan]

It’s time to get him into the first team squads. He’s scoring for fun and we really need to give promising young players a chance rather than do the stagnated development approach. Reward his efforts SDG and get him minutes.

It's a whole different ball game looking great playing against other under 18 boys to making an impression against physically developed and experienced men in our top league.

There was big supporter shouts for Murray Johnson to be given the number 1 jersey at Hibs this season.
The reality is he went out on loan to Airdrie and was quickly displaced by another loanee. He is now on the bench of a 3rd tier team Scottish team. He's a good player but just not ready yet.

Josh O'Connor was another one who supporters were saying should be playing in the first team. The coaches instead sent him on a few lower level loans and he couldn't get regular football at those clubs.
So again those supporters who thought they knew better didn't.

The coaches see the development players everyday in training and in games as well as knowing all their physical and running stats. They will know when a young player is ready to play mens football and at what level. I suspect Clelland will go on loan next season in the Scottish 3rd tier and we will see how he gets on at that level.

The best evidence that the coaches know best is that no young player who has been released by Hibs and who is still playing professional football has played for a team of the same stature again in their career.
Off the top of ma heid Fraser Murray, who is currently at Kilmarnock, has been most successful.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’m sure they could replicate McKirdy’s Hibs career though, at a fraction of the cost.

You say that, but these guys are generally so far off it that it’s not just a concern that they won’t offer something in an attacking sense, but they could quite easily lose the ball in dangerous areas and cost us goals etc.

Whilst it’s easy to say ‘they can’t offer less than McKirdy’ etc, in an attacking sense that may well be true. Overall though, they can still be worse and cost us way more than McKirdy for example would have.

[B.H.F.C]

We’ve brought duds in and given them a chance or a space on the bench this season alone in the likes of McKirdy, Amos, Kwon, Myko, JDH. What would we have lost putting some of our own youngsters on the bench instead of them and giving them 10 minutes or so in the games that allowed us to do so?

Take McKirdy for example, he was on the bench 17 times this season. Got minimal minutes in 6 of those games, all to run about like a lost little boy, at the expense of our actual youngsters playing in the U18s.

When Steven Fletcher came through did he bridge the gap to the youth team or go straight into the first team at 17? Genuine question. My memory is he wasn’t really ready physically at 17 but would get game time at left wing to give him first team minutes and develop. Are Landers or Clelland physically less ready than Fletcher was or are we just far more reluctant to blood youngsters as no manager will do so for the mid-long term good potentially to his detriment and the benefit of his replacement.

I just look at the last few years and see us churning through woefully inadequate squads and players out of their depth, while enjoying the likes of the European run the youth team had a few seasons ago which didn’t even amount to them getting a space on the bench instead of guys we were actively trying to get rid of

I think Fletcher was probably just miles ahead of, and had a career miles better, than most players who are ever in our academy. You look at Landers and Whittaker in the team last year and they just looked miles away.

I do agree with the point about folk like McKirdy getting more opportunities to an extent. But then again most, if not all, of that squad that went on the European run will probably never play or score in as many games at the level he did down south.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Bit early to say that about Landers IMO. He’s 17.

Laidlaw at 20, without a first team appearance for anyone to his name is a different thing. If you’ve not made any appearances at senior level, at that age, you’re struggling IMO.

He is, but he was well short of first team standard here from when I’ve seen him.

Hes going to have to make huge strides to get to our level. I don’t see him doing that playing for a team where he’s never getting a sniff of first team football.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Sadly the league has changed. Struggling to think of an SPL who routinely give youth a chance. Perhaps Motherwell…

what about United?

[Pretty Boy]

It's so tight this year that the chances of youth players getting minutes for any side unless they are first team regulars is slim.

Baffling why Celtic haven't blooded a couple of youngsters the last few games mind you. Miles ahead in the league or playing lower league opposition in the cup, winning comfortably and the 2 token teenagers named on the bench remain firmly under wraps.

[HIBS NUTS]

Sadly the league has changed. Struggling to think of an SPL who routinely give youth a chance. Perhaps Motherwell…
Hearts regularly play James wilson 18, and forrester 19.

[HIBS NUTS]

Hearts regularly play James wilson 18, and forrester 19.
Wales scored for Kilmarnock today, cracking youngster 18, who’s out of contract this summer.

[Lago]

Not SPFL, but Lewis-Skelkey 18 year old playing left back for Arsenal a real star of the future to all intents.

[He's here!]

Most of our kids won’t even get close to the career McKirdy has had. That’s the reality.

We get this chat constantly about young players who go on to do absolutely nothing.

On that basis what's the point of a youth system? Scrapping it might save us enough to pick off some promising younger players from lower league clubs instead.

[HIBS NUTS]

[QUOTE=He's here!;7895520]On that basis what's the point of a youth system? Scrapping it might save us enough to pick off some promising younger players from lower league clubs instead.[/QUOTE T

You need a youth set up to play in Europe, the facilities are already there, and turns many young players, into future fans, it would mean hearts have the whole of Edinburgh and lothians to themselves.

[TrinityHFC]

On that basis what's the point of a youth system? Scrapping it might save us enough to pick off some promising younger players from lower league clubs instead.

You play the ones that are good enough. You don’t just throw every player doing okay in the youth team into the first team.

It should be difficult to play for Hibs.

[He's here!]

[QUOTE=He's here!;7895520]On that basis what's the point of a youth system? Scrapping it might save us enough to pick off some promising younger players from lower league clubs instead.[/QUOTE T

You need a youth set up to play in Europe, the facilities are already there, and turns many young players, into future fans, it would mean hearts have the whole of Edinburgh and lothians to themselves.

Yes, I get all that. What I mean is that the tone of a lot of the posts on this thread is that there's no point in playing youngsters as they either won't cope with the step up or that none are good enough to do so. All seems a bit futile.

[MacGruber]

Hearts regularly play James wilson 18, and forrester 19.

The boy Wilson is an obvious comparison. 17 when scores in the Derby and has been very good for them. He's not physically there yet but is still very effective.

[davym7062]

ill let david gray decide. hes in charge

[The Modfather]

You play the ones that are good enough. You don’t just throw every player doing okay in the youth team into the first team.

It should be difficult to play for Hibs.

It should be difficult to play for Hibs, but Tavares, McKirdy, Bojang & Bursic, to name but a few, suggest that’s not always the case.

[DaveF]

The boy Wilson is an obvious comparison. 17 when scores in the Derby and has been very good for them. He's not physically there yet but is still very effective.

I would guess that is far stronger in build than Cleland.

[scm70nyd1973]

Sadly the league has changed. Struggling to think of an SPL who routinely give youth a chance. Perhaps Motherwell…

The league has changed but not it’s construction - all the background noise points to league reconstruction as it looks like most clubs are too scared to bleed their youngsters into the first team - instead they look over seas for talent with some experience - I might be wrong - it’s just my percepction.

[TrinityHFC]

It should be difficult to play for Hibs, but Tavares, McKirdy, Bojang & Bursic, to name but a few, suggest that’s not always the case.

Going round in circles here but sometimes senior players coming in don’t work out. That doesn’t mean a young kid’s good have been playing ahead of them.

Our new signing Manneh. We’ve no idea if that signing will work. We could be sat here in a year adding his name to a list. As we stand here now we wouldn’t be playing a youth player instead.

[tamig]

I know it's only a few examples, but they've made a **** tonne of money by doing so in Turnbull, Campbell and 'well are about to cash in on Miller.

Three class players, granted. But without giving them an opportunity in the first team there's no chance they make the money they have done.

Apples and pears. The guys you’ve mentioned were all exceptional talents. If they’d been here, they’d have played. Our recent youth players being touted on here are nothing like the Riordans, O’Connors and Millers of the past. I’ll trust SDG and the other coaches to decide if and when the time is right for first team involvement.

[The Modfather]

Apples and pears. The guys you’ve mentioned were all exceptional talents. If they’d been here, they’d have played. Our recent youth players being touted on here are nothing like the Riordans, O’Connors and Millers of the past. I’ll trust SDG and the other coaches to decide if and when the time is right for first team involvement.

I think Man U pride themselves on having an academy player in their match day squad for the last 50 years or so. Spanning each end of the spectrum in relentless success under Ferguson and the doldrums of the current years. I’d love for us to have a similar ethos. We seem to aspire to have top class facilities yet appear to treat our youth academy more like a pre requisite to being able to play in Europe rather than an integral part of the club.

I just think Hibs seem to position themselves in an expensive middle ground in terms of the youth academy that doesn’t achieve anything. Either cut spending back to the bone or make it a key part of a managers remit. The latter being my preference. Last season was dire, but seeing the likes of Whittaker & Landers make squads kept a degree of interest and exitment in a season I couldn’t wait to end.

[easty]

I’m sure they could replicate McKirdy’s Hibs career though, at a fraction of the cost.

We don’t want players who could replicate McKirdys Hibs career.

[easty]

The boy Wilson is an obvious comparison. 17 when scores in the Derby and has been very good for them. He's not physically there yet but is still very effective.

I think Wilson looks far more physically competitive than his stature suggests he should be. Whenever I’ve seen them on the telly he looks a decent player.

[easty]

It's a whole different ball game looking great playing against other under 18 boys to making an impression against physically developed and experienced men in our top league.

There was big supporter shouts for Murray Johnson to be given the number 1 jersey at Hibs this season.
The reality is he went out on loan to Airdrie and was quickly displaced by another loanee. He is now on the bench of a 3rd tier team Scottish team. He's a good player but just not ready yet.

Josh O'Connor was another one who supporters were saying should be playing in the first team. The coaches instead sent him on a few lower level loans and he couldn't get regular football at those clubs.
So again those supporters who thought they knew better didn't.

The coaches see the development players everyday in training and in games as well as knowing all their physical and running stats. They will know when a young player is ready to play mens football and at what level. I suspect Clelland will go on loan next season in the Scottish 3rd tier and we will see how he gets on at that level.

The best evidence that the coaches know best is that no young player who has been released by Hibs and who is still playing professional football has played for a team of the same stature again in their career.
Off the top of ma heid Fraser Murray, who is currently at Kilmarnock, has been most successful.

Josh O’Connor didn’t get into the first team cos the fans thought they knew better. The coaching team put him in. So it’s not a case of fans thinking they knew better. The fans who wanted him in thought the same as the management.

[blackpoolhibs]

If you don't give these players a chance, how will you ever know if they can step up? Sometimes a player who's nothing special can thrive with better players around him, we've seen crap players fill our bench knowing 100% that they were never going to make a difference if we brought them on. Sometimes you just need to give youth a try, otherwise they will leave us never knowing and our bench will still be full of over expensive duds.

[HIBS NUTS]

Is Dean Cleland out of contract this summer, Mabye That would explain his non appearance, in any match day squads .

[Rumble de Thump]

We give our youth players a chance. Some of them get opportunities to train with the senior team. Some will go out on loan in the lower leagues, which is a step up from under 18s, and some will get opportunities playing for the first team if they've shown they're ready to step up.

[easty]

I know it's only a few examples, but they've made a **** tonne of money by doing so in Turnbull, Campbell and 'well are about to cash in on Miller.

Three class players, granted. But without giving them an opportunity in the first team there's no chance they make the money they have done.

Turnbull and Campbell played at English Championship level.

We’ve had Porto play at that level and Doig go on to play Serie A. Both younger players than the 2 Motherwell lads above.

We’ve no done well enough financially out of Porto or Doig but our academy is still producing players. We maybe expect too much because of the golden generation coming all at once.

[HIBS NUTS]

Turnbull and Campbell played at English Championship level.

We’ve had Porto play at that level and Doig go on to play Serie A. Both younger players than the 2 Motherwell lads above.

We’ve no done well enough financially out of Porto or Doig but our academy is still producing players. We maybe expect too much because of the golden generation coming all at once.
Did we not get 3million for Josh DOIG, and a further £600,000 sell on since, that’s pretty good.

[HIBS NUTS]

Did we not get 3million for Josh DOIG, and a further £600,000 sell on since, that’s pretty good.
In general it’s not been good.👍

[easty]

Did we not get 3million for Josh DOIG, and a further £600,000 sell on since, that’s pretty good.

Aye you’re right I suppose it is good.

[Hibspur]

Apples and pears. The guys you’ve mentioned were all exceptional talents. If they’d been here, they’d have played. Our recent youth players being touted on here are nothing like the Riordans, O’Connors and Millers of the past. I’ll trust SDG and the other coaches to decide if and when the time is right for first team involvement.

If our current youth players are all miles off being spoken about in the same breath as previous successful kids, is the problem with our scouting system? It does seem disappointing that we rarely, if ever, seem to have anyone coming through these days, especially (as others have mentioned) when you consider the vast amounts of money squandered on failed signings from elsewhere.

[Donegal Hibby]

Has to be. If we don't start including him it'll be Laidlaw and Landers all over again.

Getting sick of losing our best young players without seeing them get a chance for us. We used to be a team that played young talents.

How is Laidlaw doing now? Haven’t heard much about him on here .

[Lago]

If you don't give these players a chance, how will you ever know if they can step up? Sometimes a player who's nothing special can thrive with better players around him, we've seen crap players fill our bench knowing 100% that they were never going to make a difference if we brought them on. Sometimes you just need to give youth a try, otherwise they will leave us never knowing and our bench will still be full of over expensive duds.
Exactly 👍

[TrinityHFC]

Exactly 👍

Not really exactly.

The coaching staff see them at the club and on loan and will have a good idea of where they are. Just playing them and thinking they will suddenly thrive very rarely happens unless they are clearly good enough.

Molotnikov is a good young player and he’s shown he’s very close to being ready. Even then he’s in and out and still not a regular. The idea that the young players couldn’t be worse than what we have is just false.

Then we have the reality of threads saying how every game is a must win.

[TrinityHFC]

How is Laidlaw doing now? Haven’t heard much about him on here .

20 and hasn’t played senior football for anyone yet.

[Lago]

West ham sign Daniel Cummings from Celtic, another young prospect no doubt picked up for relatively little money.

[Since452]

:agree:

If it’s ’another Landers’ or ‘another Laidlaw’ then we shouldn’t be playing him.

Neither Landers or Laidlaw will ever play at our level. They’ve had to leave because they’re not good enough to get a chance here, not because they’re not getting it.

Yup. And also if it's another Landers I hope we get another 6 figure fee.

[wookie70]

Going round in circles here but sometimes senior players coming in don’t work out. That doesn’t mean a young kid’s good have been playing ahead of them.

Our new signing Manneh. We’ve no idea if that signing will work. We could be sat here in a year adding his name to a list. As we stand here now we wouldn’t be playing a youth player instead.

I was very surprised when I saw the size and stature of him yesterday. I doubt there is a huge deal between him and Deano and Manneh was happy to mix it albeit with a very poor result. I never thought Landers would be an instant hit in the first team but Deano is different. He has such drive and energy and he also doesn't play up against defenders but arrives in teh box and finds space. Not afraid of mixing it either. I thought he should have been on the bench for the Clydebank game where another youngster made a successful debut. Deano definitely needs to take a step up as he is proving nothing playing in teh Dev league and likely not learning as quickly as he could moving up. A loan would seem a good move all round combined with a contract extension

[PHeffernan]

How is Laidlaw doing now? Haven’t heard much about him on here .

Laidlaw just turned 20 last month and plays for Brentford B.
His contract ends at the end of June but Brentford have a years option and whether they take it up or not will tell a story.
If they keep him on he will go out on loan next season.

[Trinity Hibee]

Do find it a bit strange that since we’ve opened the training centre our supply of capable youngsters to the first team has dried up.

[offshorehibby]

Do find it a bit strange that since we’ve opened the training centre our supply of capable youngsters to the first team has dried up.

Probably more to do with the fact we don't have scouts of the same calibre as John & Donald Park.

[RIP]

Do find it a bit strange that since we’ve opened the training centre our supply of capable youngsters to the first team has dried up.


Probably more to do with the fact we don't have scouts of the same calibre as John & Donald Park.

When John and Donald ran their training facility it was in Lanarkshire. Parents from the main population centres could transport their kids there in under an hour. Mowbray wanted a great academy facility but then someone had the crazy idea of siting it in East Lothian. That put it out of travel reach for many parents and shrank the catchment. My son went for a trial but if he had been successful, would I really have been up for a return trip from West Perthshire three times a week?

I was at the opening of East Mains. Some grand speeches from the board but John Collins' face was tripping him. All the spend was going on the academy at the expense of the first team. He was about to lose half of his squad and nobody was talking football.

He effectively handed in his notice that day. Tim Gardiner was sent by Petrie to find him but he had walked away in disgust and didn't take part in the media circus. And, nearly 18 years on, he would be justified in saying "I told you so" in terms of the small flow of players into the first team against tens of millions spent. Yes it's a great facility to entice players to sign, but as an academy developing first-team players - has it not been a case of a well-equipped space in the wrong place?

[Bridge hibs]

When John and Donald ran their training facility it was in Lanarkshire. Parents from the main population centres could transport their kids there in under an hour. Mowbray wanted a great academy facility but then someone had the crazy idea of siting it in East Lothian. That put it out of travel reach for many parents and shrank the catchment. My son went for a trial but if he had been successful, would I really have been up for a return trip from West Perthshire three times a week?

I was at the opening of East Mains. Some grand speeches from the board but John Collins' face was tripping him. All the spend was going on the academy at the expense of the first team. He was about to lose half of his squad and nobody was talking football.

He effectively handed in his notice that day. Tim Gardiner was sent by Petrie to find him but he had walked away in disgust and didn't take part in the media circus. And, nearly 18 years on, he would be justified in saying "I told you so" in terms of the small flow of players into the first team against tens of millions spent. Yes it's a great facility to entice players to sign, but as an academy developing first-team players - has it not been a case of a well-equipped space in the wrong place?How many other top sides in Scotland produce youngsters via their academies ? Celtc and the rangers have multi million pound facilities but very rarely bring through their own talent.

I was of the impression that EM was to be a state of the art modern training centre that would encompass all of the teams from first to youth thus giving our teams top training facilities as opposed to being scattered all over the lothians training on uneven dug **** filled council parks, rather as an academy per se.

[superfurryhibby]

When John and Donald ran their training facility it was in Lanarkshire. Parents from the main population centres could transport their kids there in under an hour. Mowbray wanted a great academy facility but then someone had the crazy idea of siting it in East Lothian. That put it out of travel reach for many parents and shrank the catchment. My son went for a trial but if he had been successful, would I really have been up for a return trip from West Perthshire three times a week?

I was at the opening of East Mains. Some grand speeches from the board but John Collins' face was tripping him. All the spend was going on the academy at the expense of the first team. He was about to lose half of his squad and nobody was talking football.

He effectively handed in his notice that day. Tim Gardiner was sent by Petrie to find him but he had walked away in disgust and didn't take part in the media circus. And, nearly 18 years on, he would be justified in saying "I told you so" in terms of the small flow of players into the first team against tens of millions spent. Yes it's a great facility to entice players to sign, but as an academy developing first-team players - has it not been a case of a well-equipped space in the wrong place?

East Mains is hardly the ends of the earth. Your overplaying the hyperbole somewhat. It is accessible.

If your travelling from West Perthshire, does it really make that much difference whether it's in East Mains or Lanarkshire (South or North, a massive county)?

People from the main population centres can get there easily enough, it's ten minutes from the A1. As for tens of millions, who knows but having an academy has also brought revenue in and benefit to the club. Can you really guess that the location of the academy has made a jot of difference to the emergence of young talent? I think not. We've had one of the best youth set ups for many years, winning leagues and cups.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that East Mains is a training facility for our first team. Most of our players live nearby.

[The Modfather]

East Mains is hardly the ends of the earth. Your overplaying the hyperbole somewhat. It is accessible.

If your travelling from West Perthshire, does it really make that much difference whether it's in East Mains or Lanarkshire (South or North, a massive county)?

People from the main population centres can get there easily enough, it's ten minutes from the A1. As for tens of millions, who knows but having an academy has also brought revenue in and benefit to the club. Can you really guess that the location of the academy has made a jot of difference to the emergence of young talent? I think not. We've had one of the best youth set ups for many years, winning leagues and cups.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that East Mains is a training facility for our first team. Most of our players live nearby.

As counter intuitive as it seems, is there a correlation between success at youth team level and success of the academy? Does the article below suggest that other teams have already promoted their top talent into their first team squads where as we haven’t.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cgrj912rl54o.amp

The article above isn’t conclusive as there will be many nuances not accounted for. At a high level though, it does point to what appears to be a longstanding issue at Hibs in terms of youth academy, development, pathway to the first team etc etc

[Centre Hawf]

As counter intuitive as it seems, is there a correlation between success at youth team level and success of the academy? Does the article below suggest that other teams have already promoted their top talent into their first team squads where as we haven’t.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cgrj912rl54o.amp

The article above isn’t conclusive as there will be many nuances not accounted for. At a high level though, it does point to what appears to be a longstanding issue at Hibs in terms of youth academy, development, pathway to the first team etc etc

The last few years Hibs would have been much higher on that chart thanks to guys like Josh Doig, Porteous, Campbell who have now all moved on or in Campbell's case outgrown the category.

I would like to see more youth get a chance at Hibs but the article you linked also references an article (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cx2e957vdnwo)about how Scotland is failing across the board. A lot of the issues for me are systemic issues and not just about the location of East Mains or the level of scouting, although I'm not writing these things off as part of our specific problem.

The two findings that stick out to me as the biggest issues are:
- The gap between under-18s football and the first team
- A lack of rules or quotas which compel clubs to play young players

For me these are two points that HAS to be identified by the SPFL/SFA and the clubs. I think it's far too easy for a manager in this league with a budget to go get a player who has played 150-200 senior games to do so instead of trusting the academy lad that's next in line when their job is on the line. You look at Hibs this season and you can see why Dave Gray wouldn't choose to trust Dean Cleland for example when he knows Mykola could get 10 goals for him this season and bring him all these traits such as physicality etc. Whereas some clubs with lesser budgets perhaps have no choice but to use a laddie in place of a journeyman.

[TrinityHFC]

East Mains is hardly the ends of the earth. Your overplaying the hyperbole somewhat. It is accessible.

If your travelling from West Perthshire, does it really make that much difference whether it's in East Mains or Lanarkshire (South or North, a massive county)?

People from the main population centres can get there easily enough, it's ten minutes from the A1. As for tens of millions, who knows but having an academy has also brought revenue in and benefit to the club. Can you really guess that the location of the academy has made a jot of difference to the emergence of young talent? I think not. We've had one of the best youth set ups for many years, winning leagues and cups.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that East Mains is a training facility for our first team. Most of our players live nearby.

Yep and it was made pretty clear when it opened it was a training facility and not an academy. That has been developed a bit further since.

[RIP]

Yep and it was made pretty clear when it opened it was a training facility and not an academy. That has been developed a bit further since.

There's absolutely no doubt that both the facilities and location appeal to potential new recruits who can drive under their own head of steam. EM is set in a beautiful location.