Another Pointless Attack

[Berwickhibby]

Another vehicle attack in Munich on innocent pedestrians, news saying the attacker was an Afghanistan National, currently 28 injured some critically. The world has gone mental

[wookie70]

Judging by the quotes on the BBC from the German Chancellor they would be wasting their time having a Court Case given he has been found guilty and will be forced to leave the country. I am always very cautious about these things given there have been tragedies where drivers have had medical issues or simply a car problem. Regardless of why the results are devastating and the facts won't bother the current German Nazi Party who will view this as a gift so close to the election. The left will shift another goose step right in the hope of more votes too, the wedge will be driven further and the tragedies will escalate.

I'll leave my initial post as it was based on quotes from the German Chancellor. I have just listened to what he said and if the interpreter was accurate he was talking about crime in general rather than specifically about this incident although inevitably he knew what would be taken from his remarks. Basically the BBC doing their bit to further Racial hatred by joining the dots. LBC reporting it as it should be, cautiously until the facts are known

[Paul1642]

Judging by the quotes on the BBC from the German Chancellor they would be wasting their time having a Court Case given he has been found guilty and will be forced to leave the country. I am always very cautious about these things given there have been tragedies where drivers have had medical issues or simply a car problem. Regardless of why the results are devastating and the facts won't bother the current German Nazi Party who will view this as a gift so close to the election. The left will shift another goose step right in the hope of more votes too, the wedge will be driven further and the tragedies will escalate.

I'll leave my initial post as it was based on quotes from the German Chancellor. I have just listened to what he said and if the interpreter was accurate he was talking about crime in general rather than specifically about this incident although inevitably he knew what would be taken from his remarks. Basically the BBC doing their bit to further Racial hatred by joining the dots. LBC reporting it as it should be, cautiously until the facts are known

Bizarre post. How about some sympathy for the victims and condemning the guy responsible for what certainly looks like and intentional act rather than worrying that the political fallout won’t suit your stance?

[jamie_1875]

Judging by the quotes on the BBC from the German Chancellor they would be wasting their time having a Court Case given he has been found guilty and will be forced to leave the country. I am always very cautious about these things given there have been tragedies where drivers have had medical issues or simply a car problem. Regardless of why the results are devastating and the facts won't bother the current German Nazi Party who will view this as a gift so close to the election. The left will shift another goose step right in the hope of more votes too, the wedge will be driven further and the tragedies will escalate.

I'll leave my initial post as it was based on quotes from the German Chancellor. I have just listened to what he said and if the interpreter was accurate he was talking about crime in general rather than specifically about this incident although inevitably he knew what would be taken from his remarks. Basically the BBC doing their bit to further Racial hatred by joining the dots. LBC reporting it as it should be, cautiously until the facts are known

Was that your first thought after seeing 28 people were seriously injured?

[wookie70]

Bizarre post. How about some sympathy for the victims and condemning the guy responsible for what certainly looks like and intentional act rather than worrying that the political fallout won’t suit your stance?

You have perfectly described why I wouldn't condemn the driver given in your words it "certainly looks like and intentional act" Even the BBC still describe the driver as a "suspected attacker". I'll be happy to condemn the attacker when he has proven to be the attacker.

Nobody will wish those injured anything but a quick recovery and best wishes and condolences, that goes without saying imo and saying it gets us nowhere. The thoughts and prayers of millions of gun owning Americans won't help solve school shootings. I know that is harsh and sounds uncaring but the world is falling apart and sympathy is not part of the solution.

Germany is on the brink of voting in huge numbers for a second Nazi Party who could form part of Government so to be honest anything that makes that more likely is a far bigger event for me, clearly not for those directly involved, which I imagine none of us are. It also has direct impact on the way the UK will travel politically imo

The way these types of events are reported and what politicians say have huge impacts on what society becomes. If it was a deliberate then by all means punish the guilty party with the full power of the law. And then try to work out why someone would commit such a heinous act. However, innocent until proven guilty seems to be a thing of the past and that for me is a cornerstone of Justice. Reporting these matters has to be done with caution until the facts are known as the story is regarded as fact as soon as it lands. Senior politicians also have to be incredibly careful what they say. A week from the election it looks like the two big parties are following the Tory and Labour lead in teh UK and adopted the if you can't beat them then join them approach to those that hate immigrants

[Paul1642]

You have perfectly described why I wouldn't condemn the driver given in your words it "certainly looks like and intentional act" Even the BBC still describe the driver as a "suspected attacker". I'll be happy to condemn the attacker when he has proven to be the attacker.

Nobody will wish those injured anything but a quick recovery and best wishes and condolences, that goes without saying imo and saying it gets us nowhere. The thoughts and prayers of millions of gun owning Americans won't help solve school shootings. I know that is harsh and sounds uncaring but the world is falling apart and sympathy is not part of the solution.

Germany is on the brink of voting in huge numbers for a second Nazi Party who could form part of Government so to be honest anything that makes that more likely is a far bigger event for me, clearly not for those directly involved, which I imagine none of us are. It also has direct impact on the way the UK will travel politically imo

The way these types of events are reported and what politicians say have huge impacts on what society becomes. If it was a deliberate then by all means punish the guilty party with the full power of the law. And then try to work out why someone would commit such a heinous act. However, innocent until proven guilty seems to be a thing of the past and that for me is a cornerstone of Justice. Reporting these matters has to be done with caution until the facts are known as the story is regarded as fact as soon as it lands. Senior politicians also have to be incredibly careful what they say. A week from the election it looks like the two big parties are following the Tory and Labour lead in teh UK and adopted the if you can't beat them then join them approach to those that hate immigrants

It’s takes like yours on events like this that alienate normal people from the left and drive some towards the right.

[Keith_M]

Jeez, just watching this on the news and it's awful. Just round the corner from what used to be my way home from work.


Bit of background on the guy (from Der Spiegel).

Arrived in Germany, as an asylum seeker, in 2016. Already known to Police for theft and drugs related offences, and there's been some claims he posted 'Islamist Content' on Social Media leading up to this incident.

[The_Exile]

As much as I detest it, I can understand why people are voting the way they are all across the developed world. People are scared, whatever this version of islam is does not play nice with the values we hold dear. I mean, I'm not even sure it is islam, or even a version of it. I've met plenty people who follow islam over the years, some of them became great pals, and they are also scared of it, the knock on effect to them is that people start to hate, start to want rid, start to turn to extremes. This extremism is now being met with extreme votes for extreme politicians, a nice wee vaccuum for the power hungry, whom are not daft that's for sure. Not sure how it will all end, not nice to sit and watch the world going to **** though and innocent people, as usual, paying the ultimate price.

[MKHIBEE]

It’s takes like yours on events like this that alienate normal people from the left and drive some towards the right.

Why? Because they can’t wait for confirmation of facts before they spew their hatred? Define “ normal people from the left”

[Paul1642]

Why? Because they can’t wait for confirmation of facts before they spew their hatred? Define “ normal people from the left”

Nobody on this thread has “spewed hatred” or even posted anything that could remotely be perceived as such.

Define normal - Sure, people whose first thought when 28 innocent people are injured in a terror attack isn’t that of disappointment due to the harm it could do their political viewpoint.

[MKHIBEE]

7894408]Nobody on this thread has “spewed hatred” or even posted anything that could remotely be perceived as such.[/U]

Define normal - Sure, people whose first thought when 28 innocent people are injured in a terror attack isn’t that of disappointment due to the harm it could do their political viewpoint.

At no point did I suggest anyone on this thread did. If you seen that in my comment that’s on you.

[Stairway 2 7]

Jeez, just watching this on the news and it's awful. Just round the corner from what used to be my way home from work.


Bit of background on the guy (from Der Spiegel).

Arrived in Germany, as an asylum seeker, in 2016. Already known to Police for theft and drugs related offences, and there's been some claims he posted 'Islamist Content' on Social Media leading up to this incident.

Videos of him shouting Allah repeatedly as he's being arrested, so that rules out a heart attack causing the crash I suppose. Hope the ****bag rots, but yes unfortunately AfD will use this for the election

[Corstorphine Hibby]

It's interesting(to me)that the BBC are very careful not to quote either the word Islam or Muslim in their main report on this incident so far. The BBC have their faults, but fanning the right wing flames of hate aren't one of them.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm in Munich now with 37 colleagues, first job after the attack was to gain confirmation that none of my colleagues were caught up in it, thankfully that was the case. There's a sense of shock and fear here and that's understandable but also probably the reaction that was wanted by the perpetrator. However I can't shake the feeling that there is more to this, especially taking into consideration what is due to start here in Munich tomorrow.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's interesting(to me)that the BBC are very careful not to quote either the word Islam or Muslim in their main report on this incident so far. The BBC have their faults, but fanning the right wing flames of hate aren't one of them.

Yet 10 years ago they were happy to give the likes of Farage a platform that he didn't deserve.

[Corstorphine Hibby]

Yet 10 years ago they were happy to give the likes of Farage a platform that he didn't deserve.

I meant in this particular incident. I should have known that by posting something like I did, someone would pick it apart, so I'm bugging out.

[jamie_1875]

Yet 10 years ago they were happy to give the likes of Farage a platform that he didn't deserve.

Millions of people voted for Brexit, Farage was an elected politician whether we liked it or not. The BBC like any other outlets gave him a platform as millions of people supported what he was trying to achieve, including over 1M Scots as well. That's for the Brexit thread though.

I am more interested in what the Germans are now thinking and what the Government is doing seeing as this is yet another attack, only last month a 2 year old boy was stabbed to death in a park by a failed asylum seeker. We had the Christmas Market attacks killing 6 and a stabbing attack last August killing 3.

[ddoc]

Incidents like this are like mana from heaven for the far right political groups throughout Europe.
The political landscape, imo, is going to change dramatically in the next decade and will be, in part, driven by the USA’s anti-immigration policies that will drip feed across the pond.
We all need to be prepared for far right political parties picking up enough seats in Parlaments throughout Europe to have a significant impact on immigration into Europe.
I am in no way a racist, but I do believe that illegal immigration is out of control and the UK Government, regardless of which party is in power, needs to get their heads out of the sand and come up with sensible, effective and acceptable solutions that will stop the far right in their tracks.
All far easier said than done.

[147lothian]

You have perfectly described why I wouldn't condemn the driver given in your words it "certainly looks like and intentional act" Even the BBC still describe the driver as a "suspected attacker". I'll be happy to condemn the attacker when he has proven to be the attacker.

Nobody will wish those injured anything but a quick recovery and best wishes and condolences, that goes without saying imo and saying it gets us nowhere. The thoughts and prayers of millions of gun owning Americans won't help solve school shootings. I know that is harsh and sounds uncaring but the world is falling apart and sympathy is not part of the solution.

Germany is on the brink of voting in huge numbers for a second Nazi Party who could form part of Government so to be honest anything that makes that more likely is a far bigger event for me, clearly not for those directly involved, which I imagine none of us are. It also has direct impact on the way the UK will travel politically imo

The way these types of events are reported and what politicians say have huge impacts on what society becomes. If it was a deliberate then by all means punish the guilty party with the full power of the law. And then try to work out why someone would commit such a heinous act. However, innocent until proven guilty seems to be a thing of the past and that for me is a cornerstone of Justice. Reporting these matters has to be done with caution until the facts are known as the story is regarded as fact as soon as it lands. Senior politicians also have to be incredibly careful what they say. A week from the election it looks like the two big parties are following the Tory and Labour lead in teh UK and adopted the if you can't beat them then join them approach to those that hate immigrants

PC gone mad, instead of trying to virtue signal why not why not spare a thought for the victims, seems like your trying to make it all about you.

[lapsedhibee]

Millions of people voted for Brexit, Farage was an elected politician whether we liked it or not. The BBC like any other outlets gave him a platform as millions of people supported what he was trying to achieve, including over 1M Scots as well. That's for the Brexit thread though.

Farage was not regularly platformed on Question Time because of the Brexit vote. More like the other way round.

[Hibrandenburg]

Millions of people voted for Brexit, Farage was an elected politician whether we liked it or not. The BBC like any other outlets gave him a platform as millions of people supported what he was trying to achieve, including over 1M Scots as well. That's for the Brexit thread though.

I am more interested in what the Germans are now thinking and what the Government is doing seeing as this is yet another attack, only last month a 2 year old boy was stabbed to death in a park by a failed asylum seeker. We had the Christmas Market attacks killing 6 and a stabbing attack last August killing 3.

Millions of people voted for Farage after he was given a platform for years. Initially he was just a shouty wee toerag that nobody paid attention to but was given the same platform as major party leaders by the BBC, they helped create the monster along with the tabloid press.

[Berwickhibby]

I seem to be missing the points being raised, 36 innocent people were mowed down by a criminal intent on committing murder, I don’t care what his religion is or what platform the BBC gave Farage during the Brexit campaign.

Security needs to be tightened at events and suitable punishment for offenders once dealt with by the Judiciary system.

[Keith_M]

I seem to be missing the points being raised, 36 innocent people were mowed down by a criminal intent on committing murder, I don’t care what his religion is or what platform the BBC gave Farage during the Brexit campaign.

Security needs to be tightened at events and suitable punishment for offenders once dealt with by the Judiciary system.


:applause:


Thank you, BH, that is indeed how I see it as well.

[147lothian]

I seem to be missing the points being raised, 36 innocent people were mowed down by a criminal intent on committing murder, I don’t care what his religion is or what platform the BBC gave Farage during the Brexit campaign.

Security needs to be tightened at events and suitable punishment for offenders once dealt with by the Judiciary system.

Crash bang wallop, hammer hits nail, well said sir. The voice of reason amongst much absurdity. :wink:

[jamie_1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew5v48w54qo

"A 14-year-old boy has been killed and five people seriously wounded in a knife attack in southern Austria.

Police said the suspect is a 23-year-old Syrian asylum seeker who was detained at the scene in Villach, a town near the border with Italy and Slovenia.

Police are yet to establish a motive but have involved extremism specialists in the investigation, a spokesman told BBC News"

[Pretty Boy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cew5v48w54qo

"A 14-year-old boy has been killed and five people seriously wounded in a knife attack in southern Austria.

Police said the suspect is a 23-year-old Syrian asylum seeker who was detained at the scene in Villach, a town near the border with Italy and Slovenia.

Police are yet to establish a motive but have involved extremism specialists in the investigation, a spokesman told BBC News"

The ship has long ago sailed but there needed to be a serious conversation about immigration some time ago.

The issue is one side would never accept we need a level of immigration across Europe, for them it's 'send them all back' whilst the other struggles to accept a chunk of the immigration we see now is far from desirable and just shout 'racist' regardless of how you try to approach it.

[Berwickhibby]

Jings another shooting in Germany, this time in a town I lived for many years and my wife’s home town Bielefeld. Apparently 4 people have gunshot wounds.

[Hibrandenburg]

Jings another shooting in Germany, this time in a town I lived for many years and my wife’s home town Bielefeld. Apparently 4 people have gunshot wounds.

Revenge shooting. Brother of a boxer who was shot dead trying to kill those accused of killing him at the start of their trial. Probably a gang connection too.

[Keith_M]

Jings another shooting in Germany, this time in a town I lived for many years and my wife’s home town Bielefeld. Apparently 4 people have gunshot wounds.



We got a call from my sister-in-law yesterday (who lives in Bielefeld) and.. to try to lighten the mood a bit... she complained that her town was starting to 'turn into Glasgow'.

You already know this, as your wife is from there but the reality is that Bielefeld is actually a nice town with a decent reputation, so it came as a bit of a shock.

[Berwickhibby]

We got a call from my sister-in-law yesterday (who lives in Bielefeld) and.. to try to lighten the mood a bit... she complained that her town was starting to 'turn into Glasgow'.

You already know this, as your wife is from there but the reality is that Bielefeld is actually a nice town with a decent reputation, so it came as a bit of a shock.

Bielefeld is a great town….Armina Bielefeld knocked Weder Bremen out the DFB Pokal this week …used to regularly go to the Alm

[Keith_M]

Bielefeld is a great town….Armina Bielefeld knocked Weder Bremen out the DFB Pokal this week …used to regularly go to the Alm


:aok:

[ddoc]

:aok:
Used to go drinking in Bielefeld when I was stationed at Gütersloh in the late 70’s but my memory is pretty hazy on this due to the tyranny of time and the strength of the German beer. I loved Warsteiner.

A bit of topic but the mention of the town just popped that time into my head.

[Keith_M]

Used to go drinking in Bielefeld when I was stationed at Gütersloh in the late 70’s but my memory is pretty hazy on this due to the tyranny of time and the strength of the German beer. I loved Warsteiner.

A bit of topic but the mention of the town just popped that time into my head.



Apparently it was a common place to visit for anybody stationed in Gütersloh. I've spoke to a couple of people now, both former soldiers and their wives, that have said the same.

[Berwickhibby]

Apparently it was a common place to visit for anybody stationed in Gütersloh. I've spoke to a couple of people now, both former soldiers and their wives, that have said the same.

I used to DJ regularly at Sammy’s or Zepplin directly across from RAF Gutersloh

[ddoc]

I used to DJ regularly at Sammy’s or Zepplin directly across from RAF Gutersloh

I was at RAF Gütersloh from Jan 77 to Jul 79. I have no memory of a drinking establishment across from the base.
Hit the food truck parked outside the main gate a lot, amazing how much food and drink you can consume at 18 without putting on weight. Loved the bratwurst and chips with mayo.
We generally went to Wiese when drinking locally off base during the week. The pub we went to done a great Jägerschnitzel.

[jamie_1875]

A police operation is under way in the western German city of Mannheim after a car reportedly hit a crowd of pedestrians.

People have been urged to avoid the city centre, but police did not give further details.

From the BBC

[Keith_M]

A police operation is under way in the western German city of Mannheim after a car reportedly hit a crowd of pedestrians.

People have been urged to avoid the city centre, but police did not give further details.

From the BBC


Dear me, not again.

:rolleyes:

[Berwickhibby]

Absolutely shocking ….no official figures of casualties yet

[Keith_M]

Absolutely shocking ….no official figures of casualties yet


Latest announcement was one dead. No numbers yet as to how many injured.

[Pretty Boy]

Absolutely shocking ….no official figures of casualties yet

I wonder how you can actually stop such things happening.

With things like plane hijackings, school shootings or bombings, as 3 examples, there are obvious ways you can mitigate a threat if not totally eradicate it. If someone is so warped and brainwashed that they are willing to drive a car into a group of pedestrians then how do you actually stop that? people need to drive cars and people need to walk. Short of fortifying every pavement with those big anti terror bollards you see around the Royal Mile during the Fringe it seems a scarily simplistic and effective way to kill and injure at will.

Obviously in an ideal scenario you can identify and stop such individuals at source but that is easier said than done.

[Berwickhibby]

Apparently 12 people injured in Hamburg station as a woman attacked other commuters by stabbing them.

[Hibs4185]

Apparently 12 people injured in Hamburg station as a woman attacked other commuters by stabbing them.

I was there a few weeks ago. Brutal.

[Hibrandenburg]

Apparently 12 people injured in Hamburg station as a woman attacked other commuters by stabbing them.

German citizen with what looked like blonde hair on the video I saw on the news. Police hinting there's no political motivation, so it's anyone's guess at what motivated her to do it. Hamburg train station, like many train stations worldwide, is a gathering point for many people with social/mental problems.

[Berwickhibby]

German citizen with what looked like blonde hair on the video I saw on the news. Police hinting there's no political motivation, so it's anyone's guess at what motivated her to do it. Hamburg train station, like many train stations worldwide, is a gathering point for many people with social/mental problems.

Why is this comment relevant, regardless who or why this attack was committed it’s shocking and the victims of this needless attack is who I a more concerned about.

[Hibrandenburg]

Why is this comment relevant, regardless who or why this attack was committed it’s shocking and the victims of this needless attack is who I a more concerned about.

If you don't know why then maybe you've been living under a rock for the last 10 years.

Strange how you criticise me for allegedly not caring about the victims when you yourself omitted any words of sympathy towards the victims.

[Keith_M]

I see the perpetrator has been locked up in a mental asylum.


Somebody goes crazy and innocent people suffer the consequences. :rolleyes:

[jamie_1875]

Car driven into the crowd at the Liverpool FC Trophy Parade.

[Hibs4185]

Car driven into the crowd at the Liverpool FC Trophy Parade.

Terrible. I was actually going to post this in the reform topic because if it’s a terrorist incident, I think that will seal their position in the polls.

Terrible news after such a happy event.

[Pretty Boy]

No idea how the guy in the car made it out to be arrested. Proper mob got at the car.

[Berwickhibby]

Again shocking…. People going out to celebrate a successful season being mowed down by a maniac

[Hiber-nation]

Terrible. I was actually going to post this in the reform topic because if it’s a terrorist incident, I think that will seal their position in the polls.

Terrible news after such a happy event.

Confirmed that it's a 53 year old white British male.

[Berwickhibby]

Confirmed that it's a 53 year old white British male.

Why is that relevant…it’s his actions that matter regardless

[Trinity Hibee]

Why is that relevant…it’s his actions that matter regardless

Well it’s relevant in that that’s who’s done it

[Pagan Hibernia]

Praying there's no fatalities in Liverpool. That looked horrendous

[Hiber-nation]

Why is that relevant…it’s his actions that matter regardless

Its sad that it has to be reported in that way to stop the baying mob of racist **** who are already all over social media saying it's a Muslim terrorist.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Why is that relevant…it’s his actions that matter regardless

Are you for real?

The police should be commended for getting it out there quickly that he’s a white scouser. You’ve already got twats like Joey Barton on Twitter claiming “we all know what’s went on” and trying to incite a race riot with misinformation yet again. The police have taken that ability out of these ****bags hands by getting the information out there.

Rather incredibly, there’s people managing to get upset about the fact that the police have given that information out. Wonder why… a missed opportunity for them. Much the same as they don’t give a **** about the kids that died at Southport, they don’t give a **** about the victims today. They’re desperate to use this to push a race war.

[Trinity Hibee]

Its sad that it has to be reported in that way to stop the baying mob of racist **** who are already all over social media saying it's a Muslim terrorist.

Such as Joey Barton

[Berwickhibby]

Are you for real?

The police should be commended for getting it out there quickly that he’s a white scouser. You’ve already got twats like Joey Barton on Twitter claiming “we all know what’s went on” and trying to incite a race riot with misinformation yet again. The police have taken that ability out of these ****bags hands by getting the information out there.

Rather incredibly, there’s people managing to get upset about the fact that the police have given that information out. Wonder why… a missed opportunity for them. Much the same as they don’t give a **** about the kids that died at Southport, they don’t give a **** about the victims today. They’re desperate to use this to push a race war.

Yes I am for real…my concerns are with victims of the shocking actions of maniacs regardless of who or why they committed it. Perhaps my experiences of dealing with death and seriously injured victims of crime puts my views differently to yours.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Yes I am for real…my concerns are with victims of the shocking actions of maniacs regardless of who or why they committed it. Perhaps my experiences of dealing with death and seriously injured victims of crime puts my views differently to yours.

In what way does publishing details of the perpetrator mean that other people’s concern isn’t with the victims?

It actually allows people to put all their concerns onto the victims. Because reasonable people would be concerned for the victims either way, right wing ****bags would put all their energy into attacking immigrants and places of worship if they were left with a void of information that ghouls like Joey ****ing Barton was left to fill.

There is absolutely no negative side to the victims ethnicity being given. None.

[Hibernian Verse]

In what way does publishing details of the perpetrator mean that other people’s concern isn’t with the victims?

It actually allows people to put all their concerns onto the victims. Because reasonable people would be concerned for the victims either way, right wing ****bags would put all their energy into attacking immigrants and places of worship if they were left with a void of information that ghouls like Joey ****ing Barton was left to fill.

There is absolutely no negative side to the victims ethnicity being given. None.

You’re spot on here.

[HH81]

Looks shocking.

Hopefully no one has died.

[Hibs4185]

Plenty of videos on twitter. Def a white male driving. Doesn’t look like he’s had a fit or heart attack or anything.

[Frazerbob]

Well it’s relevant in that that’s who’s done it

deary me

[AugustaHibs]

Looks as if the guy has totally panicked. Absolutely zero justification but from the clip I’ve just seen that’s what it looks like.

[Pretty Boy]

Surely all the roads in the area were closed? How did the guy even get his car into that position and why? It would have been like someone in Edinburgh trying to drive down Leith Street the day after we won the cup then getting upset folks got in their way.

[AugustaHibs]

Surely all the roads in the area were closed? How did the guy even get his car into that position and why? It would have been like someone in Edinburgh trying to drive down Leith Street the day after we won the cup then getting upset folks got in their way.

Sounds like the roads weren’t closed properly as in one of the videos you can see more than one car.

Looks like people were already incredibly angry, tanning his windows, opening the door and trying to fill him in (all before he drove through people).

I don’t really know what I hope is the reason, I hope this guys life isn’t ruined due to a complete accident where he was fearing for his own life, whilst also not hoping this is some absolutely vile cretin who’s intentionally done this.

Horrible situation.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Sounds like the roads weren’t closed properly as in one of the videos you can see more than one car.

Looks like people were already incredibly angry, tanning his windows, opening the door and trying to fill him in (all before he drove through people).

I don’t really know what I hope is the reason, I hope this guys life isn’t ruined due to a complete accident where he was fearing for his own life, whilst also not hoping this is some absolutely vile cretin who’s intentionally done this.

Horrible situation.

I saw a video taken on someone's phone earlier, where after the car had come to a stop and people mobbed round it, you could hear someone shouting "kill him! Kill him!"

Now obviously their first thought was the same as most of us when they saw it. But it could also be some poor guy having a fit or a heart attack and completely losing control of their vehicle. A terribly unfortunate accident. It shows how pack mentality can take over.

[marinello59]

Have seen some footage and wish I hadn’t. The scenes just before the car drove in to the crowd are simply odd, I’m not sure what was happening there.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes I am for real…my concerns are with victims of the shocking actions of maniacs regardless of who or why they committed it. Perhaps my experiences of dealing with death and seriously injured victims of crime puts my views differently to yours.

It's still not been established that this was a maniac. Nothing will change the horrific injuries that the victims have suffered. However the why and who is also of great importance bearing in mind the world we find ourselves living in today.

[Frazerbob]

From the clips I've seen, it actually looks like the guy has had a meltdown when folk started hitting his car. Looks to me like he's somehow found his way into the middle of the crowd then tried to drive out. Folk start attacking his car and he freaks out. Doesn't look like a premeditated attack to me. Could be totally wrong of course but all very bizarre.

[marinello59]

From the clips I've seen, it actually looks like the guy has had a meltdown when folk started hitting his car. Looks to me like he's somehow found his way into the middle of the crowd then tried to drive out. Folk start attacking his car and he freaks out. Doesn't look like a premeditated attack to me. Could be totally wrong of course but all very bizarre.

That’s my initial thoughts as well.

[J-C]

From the clips I've seen, it actually looks like the guy has had a meltdown when folk started hitting his car. Looks to me like he's somehow found his way into the middle of the crowd then tried to drive out. Folk start attacking his car and he freaks out. Doesn't look like a premeditated attack to me. Could be totally wrong of course but all very bizarre.

On the hews this morning saying not all the roads were closed, this is where the problem started, big crowds on the road he's driving on, a cock up by the police, all surrounding roads should've been closed.

Don't know if the guy panicked or he just lost it.

[Ozyhibby]

On the hews this morning saying not all the roads were closed, this is where the problem started, big crowds on the road he's driving on, a cock up by the police, all surrounding roads should've been closed.

Don't know if the guy panicked or he just lost it.

Council and Police could be in significant legal jeopardy if that’s the case. This was a planned event where the crowd size was expected to be as large as it was.


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[J-C]

Council and Police could be in significant legal jeopardy if that’s the case. This was a planned event where the crowd size was expected to be as large as it was.


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Just reading the the road was in fact closed and police are trying to find out how and why he accessed the road.

[Hiber-nation]

Just reading the the road was in fact closed and police are trying to find out how and why he accessed the road.

Credible sounding eye witness said the car navigated through the road closed signs and driver started tooting his horn at the crowd once he was through. It's anyone's guess what was going through the driver's mind.

[J-C]

Credible sounding eye witness said the car navigated through the road closed signs and driver started tooting his horn at the crowd once he was through. It's anyone's guess what was going through the driver's mind.

Probably didn't want stuck in all the parade traffic jams and decided to take a short cut, total madness if it's a rush of blood to the head, he could be looking at multiple attempted murder charges.

[Speedy]

From the clips I've seen, it actually looks like the guy has had a meltdown when folk started hitting his car. Looks to me like he's somehow found his way into the middle of the crowd then tried to drive out. Folk start attacking his car and he freaks out. Doesn't look like a premeditated attack to me. Could be totally wrong of course but all very bizarre.

I actually witnessed something very similar to what you describe in Edinburgh, albeit much smaller scale. Pedestrians spilled onto the road as the car was moving. Once the car collided (very slowly in the Edinburgh incident) with one pedestrian more people piled in front to block it and the driver continued (again, very slowly) presumably in the hope it would disperse the growing crowd.


https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2024/01/woman-charged-with-driving-offence-during-pro-palestine-march/

[Paulie Walnuts]

I actually witnessed something very similar to what you describe in Edinburgh, albeit much smaller scale. Pedestrians spilled onto the road as the car was moving. Once the car collided (very slowly in the Edinburgh incident) with one pedestrian more people piled in front to block it and the driver continued (again, very slowly) presumably in the hope it would disperse the growing crowd.


https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2024/01/woman-charged-with-driving-offence-during-pro-palestine-march/

There was a Hibs fan doing very similar on St Clair Street after a game a few months ago. Driving through the crowd at a ridiculous speed. People were waving him to stop, but he continued to approach oblivious groups of people infront where he’d brake and then proceed to drive about 2 feet away from them. People were punching his windows and kicking his car and he was point blank refusing to even acknowledge it was happening or to look out the car sideways.

Could have caused some real injuries.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Got to say, there’s not a chance in hell a foreigner would be getting away with such a minor list of charges if they had ploughed a car into a group of people.

Be interesting to see how the far right manage to spin this one in their “Muslim’s are getting to do whatever they want” narrative.

[Berwickhibby]

Got to say, there’s not a chance in hell a foreigner would be getting away with such a minor list of charges if they had ploughed a car into a group of people.

Be interesting to see how the far right manage to spin this one in their “Muslim’s are getting to do whatever they want” narrative.

You will find these charges are just initial for first hearing at magistrates court to ensure remand, as the case progresses with victim statements, interviews and more CCTV etc further and possibly more serious charges will be added by CPS.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You will find these charges are just initial for first hearing at magistrates court to ensure remand, as the case progresses with victim statements, interviews and more CCTV etc further and possibly more serious charges will be added by CPS.

There would be riots if a Muslim was driving that car and it was announced a few days later that they were facing counts of GBH and dangerous driving. The racist right wingers would be demanding the deportation of millions of people who had nothing to do with the incident, attempting to burn down properties and places of worship and demanding the return of the death penalty. Yet funnily enough, Joey Barton, Andrew Tate, Nigel Farage, Rupert Lowe etc have very little to say about any of it. Fancy that..

[Pretty Boy]

There was a Hibs fan doing very similar on St Clair Street after a game a few months ago. Driving through the crowd at a ridiculous speed. People were waving him to stop, but he continued to approach oblivious groups of people infront where he’d brake and then proceed to drive about 2 feet away from them. People were punching his windows and kicking his car and he was point blank refusing to even acknowledge it was happening or to look out the car sideways.

Could have caused some real injuries.

It's not uncommon to see an ******** or 3 trying to force their way through the road closed barriers at the Albion Road/Easter Road junction on a Hibs home Saturday. I'd say in my experience a driver shouting and bawling at a steward is a fairly regular occurrence.

Even if you do turn into a crowd like that by accident the obvious thing to do is just stop, call yourself an idiot and wait. Trying to force your way through is only going to inflame a crowd and that rarely ends well.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It's not uncommon to see an ******** or 3 trying to force their way through the road closed barriers at the Albion Road/Easter Road junction on a Hibs home Saturday. I'd say in my experience a driver shouting and bawling at a steward is a fairly regular occurrence.

Even if you do turn into a crowd like that by accident the obvious thing to do is just stop, call yourself an idiot and wait. Trying to force your way through is only going to inflame a crowd and that rarely ends well.

I think the guy had either been parked on SCS or in one of the industrial estates so he was already inside the barrier so to speak. Anyone with half a brain though would realise they just have to wait for the crowd to disperse. It wasn’t even like it was the tail end of the crowd, the street was rammed because the police had shut off Albion Road.

[Berwickhibby]

There would be riots if a Muslim was driving that car and it was announced a few days later that they were facing counts of GBH and dangerous driving. The racist right wingers would be demanding the deportation of millions of people who had nothing to do with the incident, attempting to burn down properties and places of worship and demanding the return of the death penalty. Yet funnily enough, Joey Barton, Andrew Tate, Nigel Farage, Rupert Lowe etc have very little to say about any of it. Fancy that..

Perhaps as the right wing are full of ****wits, but the system would have been the same regardless who was behind the wheel, the more serious charges of attempted murder need evidence to reach a legal threshold to charge. The simpler charges for first hearing will have been used then after the full investigation other charges will be laid.

[grunt]

There would be riots if a Muslim was driving that car and it was announced a few days later that they were facing counts of GBH and dangerous driving. The racist right wingers would be demanding the deportation of millions of people who had nothing to do with the incident, attempting to burn down properties and places of worship and demanding the return of the death penalty. Yet funnily enough, Joey Barton, Andrew Tate, Nigel Farage, Rupert Lowe etc have very little to say about any of it. Fancy that..
Both apparently followed on Twitter by an account associated with the driver of the car.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Both apparently followed on Twitter by an account associated with the driver of the car.

No surprise there really.

Imagine being a 53 year old man and following Andrew ****ing Tate :faf:

[Bristolhibby]

Perhaps as the right wing are full of ****wits, but the system would have been the same regardless who was behind the wheel, the more serious charges of attempted murder need evidence to reach a legal threshold to charge. The simpler charges for first hearing will have been used then after the full investigation other charges will be laid.

That was my thinking. Was chatting to my Dad, for attempted murder does there need to be some sense of intent and premeditation?

My defence would be, got caught in the crowd, they all threatened me, smashing my windows, tanking my car, I panicked and hit accelerate.

Also noticed the driving under the influence of drugs was dropped? Wonder why that was? Bloods show cannabis but not enough that he was smoking that day? I wonder?

J

[Paulie Walnuts]

That was my thinking. Was chatting to my Dad, for attempted murder does there need to be some sense of intent and premeditation?

My defence would be, got caught in the crowd, they all threatened me, smashing my windows, tanking my car, I panicked and hit accelerate.

Also noticed the driving under the influence of drugs was dropped? Wonder why that was? Bloods show cannabis but not enough that he was smoking that day? I wonder?

J

Surely driving into roads that were closed due to the crowds would show intent and premeditation?

He didn’t just randomly end up there, he had to go through numerous other hurdles that would have had to have been dodged deliberately to get into the situation he found himself in.

[Ozyhibby]

Last couple of days I’ve seen loads of articles trying to work out how this guy went from normal family guy to this. Doubt there would be any attempt at understanding if it had been a migrant.


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[Berwickhibby]

Surely driving into roads that were closed due to the crowds would show intent and premeditation?

He didn’t just randomly end up there, he had to go through numerous other hurdles that would have had to have been dodged deliberately to get into the situation he found himself in.

Hence there will be an investigation, gathering witnesses and CCTV to follow his time line, his manner of driving, how he entered the area etc plus the aggravating factors including his political and football leanings and or any Social media posts.

To suggest that driving in a closed area shows premeditation and intent would be insufficient for a charge. Let alone a jury guilty verdict.

[Moulin Yarns]

Surely driving into roads that were closed due to the crowds would show intent and premeditation?

He didn’t just randomly end up there, he had to go through numerous other hurdles that would have had to have been dodged deliberately to get into the situation he found himself in.

Did the initial report not say he followed an ambulance through the road barriers? Those manning the barriers possibly thought he was with the ambulance.

Some footage shows the car just past the ambulance. I don't think he deliberately dodged the barriers.

[Berwickhibby]

Did the initial report not say he followed an ambulance through the road barriers? Those manning the barriers possibly thought he was with the ambulance.

Some footage shows the car just past the ambulance. I don't think he deliberately dodged the barriers.

Which will be great evidence to show breaking the Road Traffic Act but not intent to commit murder.

[Hibernian Verse]

No surprise there really.

Imagine being a 53 year old man and following Andrew ****ing Tate :faf:

Statistically you'll have triggered someone on here with that, but they can't post in anger and out themselves :greengrin

[silverhibee]

That was my thinking. Was chatting to my Dad, for attempted murder does there need to be some sense of intent and premeditation?

My defence would be, got caught in the crowd, they all threatened me, smashing my windows, tanking my car, I panicked and hit accelerate.

Also noticed the driving under the influence of drugs was dropped? Wonder why that was? Bloods show cannabis but not enough that he was smoking that day? I wonder?

J

Would it not be that he tested positive for cocaine or cannabis on a wipe but blood test showed that he was below limit, or maybe because he is ex marine family man owned his own business and is white that the charges are not as serious, the judge said he deliberately drove in to the crowd so attempted murder 83 times should be his charges.

[Berwickhibby]

Would it not be that he tested positive for cocaine or cannabis on a wipe but blood test showed that he was below limit, or maybe because he is ex marine family man owned his own business and is white that the charges are not as serious, the judge said he deliberately drove in to the crowd so attempted murder 83 times should be his charges.

I would be surprised if the toxicology result was back already, however as pointed out the original charges were required to get him remanded. Police have to work with a 24 hour clock which can be doubled to 48 hours to either charge, bail or dismiss in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. These first charges got him remanded, when he ends up in the Crown Court there will be more charges and more serious charges laid.

[Ozyhibby]

Statistically you'll have triggered someone on here with that, but they can't post in anger and out themselves :greengrin

[emoji23]


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[Keith_M]

I would be surprised if the toxicology result was back already, however as pointed out the original charges were required to get him remanded. Police have to work with a 24 hour clock which can be doubled to 48 hours to either charge, bail or dismiss in accordance with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984. These first charges got him remanded, when he ends up in the Crown Court there will be more charges and more serious charges laid.


I just wanted to say thanks for explaining the legal ins-and-outs throughout this. I realise a lot of it will be partially guess work, based on your experience and knowledge of the relevant laws and procedures, but it really helps to clarify a lot of what's going on for us lay-persons,

:aok:

[Paulie Walnuts]

Statistically you'll have triggered someone on here with that, but they can't post in anger and out themselves :greengrin

:greengrin

[McD]

I just wanted to say thanks for explaining the legal ins-and-outs throughout this. I realise a lot of it will be partially guess work, based on your experience and knowledge of the relevant laws and procedures, but it really helps to clarify a lot of what's going on for us lay-persons,

:aok:


Was actually going to say this as well, appreciate BH offering their input and giving clarity on the timelines, charges (now and potentially future), etc.

[Stairway 2 7]

You will find these charges are just initial for first hearing at magistrates court to ensure remand, as the case progresses with victim statements, interviews and more CCTV etc further and possibly more serious charges will be added by CPS.

Far too much common sense in this post. I'd prefer judge Judy just sent him down due to brexit and Starmer or something

[Hibrandenburg]

I know it's not compatible but seeing the awful videos of what happened on Monday just gives me horrible memories of watching video of 2 former colleagues who erred into a Republic funeral in 1988.

[Berwickhibby]

I know it's not compatible but seeing the awful videos of what happened on Monday just gives me horrible memories of watching video of 2 former colleagues who erred into a Republic funeral in 1988.

I was at HQ 4 Armd Div and Sig Regt with Derek Wood

[blackpoolhibs]

Am i the only person on here who does not know who Andrew Tate is or what he does? :confused:

[tamig]

I know it's not compatible but seeing the awful videos of what happened on Monday just gives me horrible memories of watching video of 2 former colleagues who erred into a Republic funeral in 1988.

I remember seeing that on the telly at the time. Horrific viewing. Was it not the funeral of one of Michael Stone’s victims?

[grunt]

Am i the only person on here who does not know who Andrew Tate is or what he does? :confused:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg41g1140po

[blackpoolhibs]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg41g1140po

I'd obviously heard the name before, seen people mention him here, but had no idea what he did or had done.

Looks like a bit of a cad.

[Bristolhibby]

Am i the only person on here who does not know who Andrew Tate is or what he does? :confused:

You are lucky.

[tamig]

I'd obviously heard the name before, seen people mention him here, but had no idea what he did or had done.

Looks like a bit of a cad.

Bit of another word beginning with c

[Hibrandenburg]

I was at HQ 4 Armd Div and Sig Regt with Derek Wood

Crossed paths with Dave and Derek at 11 and 8 Sigs during basic, trade and Det Commander's courses. They could have driven or shot their way out of the situation but held back and were rewarded with being murdered in cold blood.

[Hibrandenburg]

I remember seeing that on the telly at the time. Horrific viewing. Was it not the funeral of one of Michael Stone’s victims?

Can't remember if it was the funerals of any of Stone's victims or not, but it was definitely within days of that horrible incident. Two guys who ****ed up and surrendered to save further bloodshed, callously murdered.

[Ozyhibby]

Can't remember if it was the funerals of any of Stone's victims or not, but it was definitely within days of that horrible incident. Two guys who ****ed up and surrendered to save further bloodshed, callously murdered.

It was the funerals of the victims a few days later.


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[Berwickhibby]

Another car attack in Leicester yesterday….. this is getting out of hand

[Moulin Yarns]

Another car attack in Leicester yesterday….. this is getting out of hand

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgqppwwje8o

Sounds like a domestic incident.

[Berwickhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgqppwwje8o

Sounds like a domestic incident.

🤷*♂️ does that matter …it’s the nature of the crime by using a vehicle to attack others

[matty_f]

Am i the only person on here who does not know who Andrew Tate is or what he does? :confused:

He’s a ****, and he’s a ****.

[danhibees1875]

🤷*♂️ does that matter …it’s the nature of the crime by using a vehicle to attack others

If there's nothing linking the two incidents then I guess it's hard to see what is getting out of hand, unless this is a campaign to end personal car ownership? :confused:

[Berwickhibby]

If there's nothing linking the two incidents then I guess it's hard to see what is getting out of hand, unless this is a campaign to end personal car ownership? :confused:

It’s getting out of hand the regular use of a vehicle to intentionally attack people, it’s certainly not a campaign to end the use of personal car ownership, I will leave that to the Greens, however I do think there should be harder punishments by the court for those who commit these type of offences.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s getting out of hand the regular use of a vehicle to intentionally attack people, it’s certainly not a campaign to end the use of personal car ownership, I will leave that to the Greens, however I do think there should be harder punishments by the court for those who commit these type of offences.

These people are not thinking of consequences when they do it.


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[Just Alf]

It’s getting out of hand the regular use of a vehicle to intentionally attack people, it’s certainly not a campaign to end the use of personal car ownership, I will leave that to the Greens, however I do think there should be harder punishments by the court for those who commit these type of offences.
These people are not thinking of consequences when they do it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMaybe a stricter punishment will make people hesitant to even think of going ahead with something like this.



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[Hibbyradge]

Maybe a stricter punishment will make people hesitant to even think of going ahead with something like this.



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I don't think anyone weighs up the potential penalty before deciding whether to kill and maim dozens of people.

[Just Alf]

I don't think anyone weighs up the potential penalty before deciding whether to kill and maim dozens of people.True, these things are always heightened emotional states where "thinking" doesn't come into it I guess


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[silverhibee]

Car driven into the crowd at the Liverpool FC Trophy Parade.

It’s like the media/press have forgot all about this horrific incident.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s like the media/press have forgot all about this horrific incident.

He appeared in court on Friday, remanded, and trial date to be decided.

Police are trawling through around 500 cctv images and witness statements.

Nothing more for the media to report. Don't worry, when he next appears in court we will know about it.

[Hibrandenburg]

It’s like the media/press have forgot all about this horrific incident.

Our media mainly caters for the centre to far right, there's not much of a market for heterosexual white male stories, unless they're the victims.

[Ozyhibby]

He appeared in court on Friday, remanded, and trial date to be decided.

Police are trawling through around 500 cctv images and witness statements.

Nothing more for the media to report. Don't worry, when he next appears in court we will know about it.

Wonder why the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc lost interest?


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[Moulin Yarns]

Wonder why the Mail, Express, Telegraph etc lost interest?


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White?

Middle class?

ex forces?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Our media mainly caters for the centre to far right, there's not much of a market for heterosexual white male stories, unless they're the victims.

:agree:

[Bristolhibby]

White?

Middle class?

ex forces?

Chuck in Reform & Brexit and you have a full house there.

J

[Hibrandenburg]

11 dead after school shooting in Graz Austria. Dreadful scenes with heartbreaking interviews with parents who don't know if their kids are dead or alive.

[Hibspur]

11 dead after school shooting in Graz Austria. Dreadful scenes with heartbreaking interviews with parents who don't know if their kids are dead or alive.

Horrific.

As so often seems to be the case it's reported to be a former student who carried out the attack before killing himself.

[J-C]

11 dead after school shooting in Graz Austria. Dreadful scenes with heartbreaking interviews with parents who don't know if their kids are dead or alive.

Ex pupil, obviously with mental health issues, these are the kind you generally hear about in the States.

[Ozyhibby]

Ex pupil, obviously with mental health issues, these are the kind you generally hear about in the States.

We have them everywhere but it’s usually only the states where they can get their hands on guns.


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[Hibspur]

Ex pupil, obviously with mental health issues, these are the kind you generally hear about in the States.

Dunblane remains painful to think about to this day, but it's thanks to the UK legislation which it prompted that we're much better protected than the US from such atrocities - at least when it comes to guns.

[Keith_M]

We have them everywhere but it’s usually only the states where they can get their hands on guns.


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Austria is actually the most heavily armed country in Europe. Roughly 30% of Austrians own firearms.

Despite that, this kind of event is extremely rare over there and my friends and former collegues in Vienna are al extremely shocked that this could happen in their country.

Regardless of the where, who and why, it's just very sad that this happened at all.