Sam Stanton

[hibees 7062]

Left Raith Rovers after his family received online abuse :fuming:

[J-C]

Left Raith Rovers after his family received online abuse :fuming:

I did wonder why he'd left, he was a regular and one of their better players, mob hatred is getting way out of hand nowadays, Stanton and Kettlewell both leaving due to abuse.

[CentreLine]

I did wonder why he'd left, he was a regular and one of their better players, mob hatred is getting way out of hand nowadays, Stanton and Kettlewell both leaving due to abuse.

Not to mention Ben Kensell.

[DaveF]

What is the back story here as the only thing on their official site was a few days old saying that he indicated 'several months ago' that he wanted to leave.

[J-C]

Not to mention Ben Kensell.

True but unfortunately Ben made himself a good target for the boo boys, if he'd kept his mouth firmly shut and just kept bringing in business, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

[CallumLaidlaw]

What is the back story here as the only thing on their official site was a few days old saying that he indicated 'several months ago' that he wanted to leave.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/5171052/sam-stanton-abuse-online-raith-rovers-arbroath/


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[bingo70]

What is the back story here as the only thing on their official site was a few days old saying that he indicated 'several months ago' that he wanted to leave.

This is the back story. It’s now coming out that his family couldn’t handle the abuse so he felt he couldn’t play for Raith any more.

[Smartie]

Apart from anything else, I can’t believe that Sam Stanton is now 30.

[worcesterhibby]

I did wonder why he'd left, he was a regular and one of their better players, mob hatred is getting way out of hand nowadays, Stanton and Kettlewell both leaving due to abuse.

players have always received abuse on the park, but the rise and rise of Social media now means there is abuse 24/7 and that fact that people get away with it Scot free on socials emboldens them to also give it in the street or to players relatives in person. The number of people on here who use the Matchday thread to slag off our own players at the merest hint of a mistake is frightening and god forbid we go on another bad run of form or there will be thread after thread telling us that players are lazy, not fit to wear the shirt and that the board are evil-souled idiots intent on destroying the club!

why can’t folk just be decent human beings, and make relevant comments about underperforming players or staff without being abusive or relentless in their condemnation. None of us are perfect and we all have bad days at work, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.

[BILLYHIBS]

Good excuse to show this again against The Hun about 1.25 in

https://youtu.be/iprozfywQhc?si=cCEOc7b-Ib2kzY35

Any abuse to players is Shan patter btw

[Paulie Walnuts]

Good excuse to show this again against The Hun about 1.25 in

https://youtu.be/iprozfywQhc?si=cCEOc7b-Ib2kzY35

Any abuse to players is Shan patter btw

Great goal but I’m struggling to see how he’s not absolutely miles offside :greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder what the abuse was about.

My neighbour is a Raith fan and was gutted he has left and was gutted that he had looked like he would rather have been anywhere else in the world for the last few months. Said he was a bit of a fan favourite and that they would struggle to replace him.

Obviously that is one persons opinion and perception but it doesn't sound like a player who is an obvious target for the boo boys. That's not to say it would be excusable if he was crap but good players who are popular tend to get a lot less negative attention.

[SaulGoodman]

Great goal but I’m struggling to see how he’s not absolutely miles offside :greengrin

Think that tiny wee Rangers defender behind the keeper must have been playing him on

[Northernhibee]

Signed for Arbroath on loan.

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder what the abuse was about.

My neighbour is a Raith fan and was gutted he has left and was gutted that he had looked like he would rather have been anywhere else in the world for the last few months. Said he was a bit of a fan favourite and that they would struggle to replace him.

Obviously that is one persons opinion and perception but it doesn't sound like a player who is an obvious target for the boo boys. That's not to say it would be excusable if he was crap but good players who are popular tend to get a lot less negative attention.

The Courier interview with him says he raised the issue after the Thistle play-off game in May. Given that Rovers won the tie, albeit on penalties, I can't understand that.

[Hiber-nation]

I wonder what the abuse was about.

My neighbour is a Raith fan and was gutted he has left and was gutted that he had looked like he would rather have been anywhere else in the world for the last few months. Said he was a bit of a fan favourite and that they would struggle to replace him.

Obviously that is one persons opinion and perception but it doesn't sound like a player who is an obvious target for the boo boys. That's not to say it would be excusable if he was crap but good players who are popular tend to get a lot less negative attention.

Raith fans don't seem to know what happened other than the content of the article in the Courier. Seems to be a family member getting the abuse during a play-off game that they won. I go to see Rovers now and again and keep an eye on their Facebook page which is the polar opposite of ours. All very supportive. Must have been something personal for this to have happened.

[BILLYHIBS]

Think that tiny wee Rangers defender behind the keeper must have been playing him on

Ha! Ha! Just spotted the wee The Rangers fan looked as though he kicked his baw on the park to try and stop the game typical

They start them young

Just noticed Sam Stanton scored a hat-trick what a prospect !

Tackles were fair flying in from both sets of players fair play

[RIP Bestie]

Appreciate that there are more platforms for people to spout abuse at players or managers but it has been going on for years and years and years.
I used to wonder how the likes of Ally Brazil, Brian Hamilton, Joe Tortolano and even Paul Kane had the courage to leave the dressing room
The abuse these players took week in week out, from their own fans, was cringe worthy at times.

[ruthven_raiders]

Appreciate that there are more platforms for people to spout abuse at players or managers but it has been going on for years and years and years.
I used to wonder how the likes of Ally Brazil, Brian Hamilton, Joe Tortolano and even Paul Kane had the courage to leave the dressing room
The abuse these players took week in week out, from their own fans, was cringe worthy at times.

Received a lot of abuse from the terraces but luckily for them, it was the days before the internet and social media.....

[BILLYHIBS]

Appreciate that there are more platforms for people to spout abuse at players or managers but it has been going on for years and years and years.
I used to wonder how the likes of Ally Brazil, Brian Hamilton, Joe Tortolano and even Paul Kane had the courage to leave the dressing room
The abuse these players took week in week out, from their own fans, was cringe worthy at times.
Benny took just as much abuse if not more than Rocky and barely put a foot wrong Torto was a self confessed nervous wreck Hamilton did a lot of unseen work a bit like Josh Campbell who gets it tight Kano to me was an absolute legend one of our own like Josh living the dream

[superfurryhibby]

Benny took just as much abuse if not more than Rocky and barely put a foot wrong Torto was a self confessed nervous wreck Hamilton did a lot of unseen work a bit like Josh Campbell who gets it tight Kano to me was an absolute legend one of our own like Josh living the dream

All those guys got plenty of abuse from the terracing, as did Alan Sneddon, another fine Hibernian. Kano suffered from played everywhere but his natural central midfield position. He had a good career, wish he had stayed longer at Hibs.

[TrinityHFC]

True but unfortunately Ben made himself a good target for the boo boys, if he'd kept his mouth firmly shut and just kept bringing in business, there probably wouldn't have been a problem.

You think telling the Chief Exec of a football club to keep their mouth shut isn't part of the problem? It is this stuff that fuels it.

[CropleyWasGod]

Appreciate that there are more platforms for people to spout abuse at players or managers but it has been going on for years and years and years.
I used to wonder how the likes of Ally Brazil, Brian Hamilton, Joe Tortolano and even Paul Kane had the courage to leave the dressing room
The abuse these players took week in week out, from their own fans, was cringe worthy at times.


Received a lot of abuse from the terraces but luckily for them, it was the days before the internet and social media.....


Benny took just as much abuse if not more than Rocky and barely put a foot wrong Torto was a self confessed nervous wreck Hamilton did a lot of unseen work a bit like Josh Campbell who gets it tight Kano to me was an absolute legend one of our own like Josh living the dream


All those guys got plenty of abuse from the terracing, as did Alan Sneddon, another fine Hibernian. Kano suffered from played everywhere but his natural central midfield position. He had a good career, wish he had stayed longer at Hibs.

Did their families get the abuse, though? That's the big difference for me.

[easty]

You think telling the Chief Exec of a football club to keep their mouth shut isn't part of the problem? It is this stuff that fuels it.

Nah, not at all.

There's definitely a line where "abuse" goes from being fair enough to being unacceptable, but this doesn't even come close to crossing it.

Ben Kensell was too mouthy, his job never required him to be out trying to be one of the lads with fans. As fans we're entitled to say so.

Shouting at him in the street (whether he's with his family or not) is crossing the line. I dunno anyone who would do it, but it appears some have.


You can shout at players on the park for playing *****, but dinnae go up to them when they're in the gym and have a go at them. Again, I dunno anyone who would, but if you believe everything you read it appears some have.

[superfurryhibby]

Did their families get the abuse, though? That's the big difference for me.

I wouldn't have thought so. Even abuse aimed at the individual clearly gets to players, Elie Youan being a case in point. The amount of utter nonsense posted about the guy is awful.

I'm well aware of the toxic effect of social media. You look at some of the threads on here, Boyle being a prime example. When he was out of form and playing with injury, some of the posted was absolutely dire, "wage thief" etc. Given what he's done at this club, it's hard to understand the mentality of someone who thinks this is ok, especially from a "fan".

[TelaStella]

That’s mental if true? Always thought he was really highly thought of there?


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[TrinityHFC]

I wouldn't have thought so. Even abuse aimed at the individual clearly gets to players, Elie Youan being a case in point. The amount of utter nonsense posted about the guy is awful.

I'm well aware of the toxic effect of social media. You look at some of the threads on here, Boyle being a prime example. When he was out of form and playing with injury, some of the posted was absolutely dire, "wage thief" etc. Given what he's done at this club, it's hard to understand the mentality of someone who thinks this is ok, especially from a "fan".

In Youan's case it continues to exist - even when he came back in the team, contributed, showed he cared about being here and was one of the main characters in some of our recent celebrations - one injury later and his character gets questioned again.

[Paulie Walnuts]

You think telling the Chief Exec of a football club to keep their mouth shut isn't part of the problem? It is this stuff that fuels it.

Suggesting that the chief executive who used to go about telling people he was going to sack the manager if he didn’t win a game or going into pubs and telling people the team before it was announced should keep his mouth shut is absolutely not part of the problem.

[Pretty Boy]

I often wonder if some people just sit and obsess about football to an unhealthy level all day.

I said it on another thread but I don't think I'd even recognise Josh Campbell if I walked past him in the street. If he was in Hibs gear I might click but if he was in jeans and a polo shirt totally out of setting I reckon I could walk past him and barely register it beyond 'I know that guy from somewhere'. That's no disrespect intended towards him, the same is true of a few of our players.

I wouldn't hassle a player or a manager for a photo or a chat outside an environment where they might realistically expect it. If a guy is out for a drink or with his family, at the gym or whatever then he should be left well alone imo even if the intent is friendly, they aren't working and owe the fans nothing. It also doesn't take much for something that may have been well meaning to develop into something more sinister (Lee Johnson and Elio's springs to mind). Abusing them in such settings is just ridiculous behaviour. It must be the work of total sad acts or billy no mates types. If I was out and started having a pop at a Hibs player in a pub then I'd fully expect my mates to tell me to shut the **** up and then to **** off home.

[TrinityHFC]

Nah, not at all.

There's definitely a line where "abuse" goes from being fair enough to being unacceptable, but this doesn't even come close to crossing it.

Ben Kensell was too mouthy, his job never required him to be out trying to be one of the lads with fans. As fans we're entitled to say so.

Shouting at him in the street (whether he's with his family or not) is crossing the line. I dunno anyone who would do it, but it appears some have.


You can shout at players on the park for playing *****, but dinnae go up to them when they're in the gym and have a go at them. Again, I dunno anyone who would, but if you believe everything you read it appears some have.


I think the sort of stuff said about people on here leads to the situations where it moves into the online abuse or shouting at people in the streets. The amount of personal stuff and character assassination about club employees is out of order. Question the job they are doing but most of it is way beyond that.

[Northernhibee]

Appreciate that there are more platforms for people to spout abuse at players or managers but it has been going on for years and years and years.
I used to wonder how the likes of Ally Brazil, Brian Hamilton, Joe Tortolano and even Paul Kane had the courage to leave the dressing room
The abuse these players took week in week out, from their own fans, was cringe worthy at times.
I’d add Liam Craig to that list as a more recent example. Pleased he’s returned as he’s a good coach by all accounts and was a decent player who like many others struggled under Butcher, but hearing what some grown men would roar at him from the stands was utterly pathetic.

[TrinityHFC]

Suggesting that the chief executive who used to go about telling people he was going to sack the manager if he didn’t win a game or going into pubs and telling people the team before it was announced should keep his mouth shut is absolutely not part of the problem.

Most of these stories are out of context, usually petty and personal and strangely usually come from people or friends of people that quite openly show their hatred for individuals at the club, for whatever reason.

[BILLYHIBS]

I’d add Liam Craig to that list as a more recent example. Pleased he’s returned as he’s a good coach by all accounts and was a decent player who like many others struggled under Butcher, but hearing what some grown men would roar at him from the stands was utterly pathetic.

I liked Liam Craig right player wrong time nice guy and like Joe Newell did a lot of work behind the scenes attending fan’s and community functions, visits and events etc never letting anyone down lovely goal against the Hun as well :greengrin

[dp00]

The Stevenson family must be made of hard stuff given the amount of abuse and criticism Lewis received in his time here


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[Viva_Palmeiras]

Perhaps “supporters” that want to continue to “abuse” players can sign up to do so - they appear to think it’s their right as they paid their money.

Then perhaps they can be offered sessions where they see first hand why it’s not a great idea.

We can’t be ignoring the suicide rates amongst young men and the mental health timebomb that’s ticking away.

If I recall correctly, somewhat surprisingly there are posters on here who have when challenged, in the past defended their position. I don’t and will never understand it.

you just need to listen and watch Joe t at the St Pats branch to see the impact best part of 30 years on. Shameful.

[green day]

Some Rovers fans thought he wasnt pulling his weight and was working his ticket to leave - others thought this was nonsense, as Sam had played really well for them.

His wife actually signed up for Pie and Bovril, and remonstrated with some of the more abusive Rovers posters - she got a lot of support from others, but I think some of the responses were pretty bad.

It was only a matter of time after that that Sam left.

People can be right ********s.

[Donegal Hibby]

Nah, not at all.

There's definitely a line where "abuse" goes from being fair enough to being unacceptable, but this doesn't even come close to crossing it.

Ben Kensell was too mouthy, his job never required him to be out trying to be one of the lads with fans. As fans we're entitled to say so.

Shouting at him in the street (whether he's with his family or not) is crossing the line. I dunno anyone who would do it, but it appears some have.


You can shout at players on the park for playing *****, but dinnae go up to them when they're in the gym and have a go at them. Again, I dunno anyone who would, but if you believe everything you read it appears some have.

Not having a go but your last part in you can shout at players on the park for playing ***** which could be for many reasons btw . What does it actually achieve ? And is that not the players most in the team that needs support and encouragement? . Watched this with Stephan Frail after Kettlewell resigned and he makes this point in it ….

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13298340/stuart-kettlewell-quits-as-motherwell-boss-caretaker-stephen-frail-discusses-managers-departure-after-abuse-from-some-fans

[Since452]

Football is a funny one. If you shouted at someone in the street the way some supporters shout in the stands you'd likely get your head knocked off. If you paid money at a restaurant and the food wasn't up to scratch would you seethe with rage and hurl abuse in front of the whole place? Football seems to be a free for all to act like a deranged petulant child. It's bizarre and a part of the game I really don't like. I don't buy this "I pay my money" bull**** either.

[gbhibby]

It's a game of football why do people think its OK to abuse people who are doing a job at their place of work. There are a lot of people on here who go over top in posts about players the Hanlon Haters,Campbell Critics
are examples, players will like the rest of us look at social media. Some people have thicker skin than others but when it has an effect on players families as well, its not on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Most of these stories are out of context, usually petty and personal and strangely usually come from people or friends of people that quite openly show their hatred for individuals at the club, for whatever reason.

Are they out of context? How do you know what the context was to be able to say that?

Let’s not kid ourselves on, they happened.

[easty]

Not having a go but your last part in you can shout at players on the park for playing ***** which could be for many reasons btw . What does it actually achieve ? And is that not the player most in the team that needs support and encouragement? . Watched this with Stephan Frail after Kettlewell resigned and he makes this point in it ….

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13298340/stuart-kettlewell-quits-as-motherwell-boss-caretaker-stephen-frail-discusses-managers-departure-after-abuse-from-some-fans

We don't live in a fantasy world where everyone has to be nice to each other, and it doesn't really have to achieve anything. I've never bought into the "if you can be anything be nice" or "if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all" mantras.

I'm also not really interested in what Steven Frail thinks either. Are we meant to think that Steven Frail has only ever shouted nice things at the football?

[Frazerbob]

Socialising on your phone instead of in the pub has caused this. Zero accountability. If folk spoke like they do online down the pub, they'd get a sore face and soon stop.

[easty]

Football is a funny one. If you shouted at someone in the street the way some supporters shout in the stands you'd likely get your head knocked off. If you paid money at a restaurant and the food wasn't up to scratch would you seethe with rage and hurl abuse in front of the whole place? Football seems to be a free for all to act like a deranged petulant child. It's bizarre and a part of the game I really don't like. I don't buy this "I pay my money" bull**** either.

You also wouldn't roll up at Nandos with a Nandos t-shirt and scarf and start singing songs about the peri peri sauce.

Football is different to other jobs. We're not at the games for an experience, we're there because we're emotionally connected to the team. It's how those emotions are handled that lead to "limbs" or "abusive" shouts.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Stevenson family must be made of hard stuff given the amount of abuse and criticism Lewis received in his time here


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Whatever criticism Lewis received on here was always about his limitations technically ... EG not the best at beating his man and getting a cross in. His character as a human being and the 100% effort he gave in every single game was never questioned on here. Criticising a players ability isn't abuse.

Anyway ... all the best to Sam Stanton, definitely RRs loss.

[easty]

Socialising on your phone instead of in the pub has caused this. Zero accountability. If folk spoke like they do online down the pub, they'd get a sore face and soon stop.

Isn't the fact that people are speaking the way they are offline the problem though? It's no longer just the keyboard hardman. Kendall and his family getting abuse in the street, Campbell getting it in the gym apparently.

[easty]

Whatever criticism Lewis received on here was always about his limitations technically ... EG not the best at beating his man and getting a cross in. His character as a human being and the 100% effort he gave in every single game was never questioned on here. Criticising a players ability isn't abuse.

Anyway ... all the best to Sam Stanton, definitely RRs loss.

:agree:

We celebrate them when they're doing well, and criticise them when they're poor. There's nothing wrong with that.

[JimBHibees]

:agree:

We celebrate them when they're doing well, and criticise them when they're poor. There's nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely fair to critic a player i think most people would recognise that as fair enough for it to morph into personal abuse of a player and his family members clearly is totally different

[easty]

Absolutely fair to critic a player i think most people would recognise that as fair enough for it to morph into personal abuse of a player and his family members clearly is totally different

Absolutely.

[Frazerbob]

Isn't the fact that people are speaking the way they are offline the problem though? It's no longer just the keyboard hardman. Kendall and his family getting abuse in the street, Campbell getting it in the gym apparently.

Very true. Folk get whipped up online and carry it on in the stadium, street etc.

[nonshinyfinish]

You also wouldn't roll up at Nandos with a Nandos t-shirt and scarf and start singing songs about the peri peri sauce.

Speak for yourself

[basehibby]

This cowardly patter is getting well out of hand. In addition to Kensal, we have had Youan and Rocky targeted relatively recently - and as is well enough known, club legend Lewis Stevenson never used to look at social media for the sake of his sanity.

What can be done to prevent brainless gob*****s who call themselves Hibs "supporters" spewing ananymous bile at players and staff?

[gbhibby]

There has been a case of a referee who has been receiving abuse and threats this week. We all have opinions on referees but they are doing a job of work. This could have an impact on people taking up refereeing.

[He's here!]

Football is a funny one. If you shouted at someone in the street the way some supporters shout in the stands you'd likely get your head knocked off. If you paid money at a restaurant and the food wasn't up to scratch would you seethe with rage and hurl abuse in front of the whole place? Football seems to be a free for all to act like a deranged petulant child. It's bizarre and a part of the game I really don't like. I don't buy this "I pay my money" bull**** either.

Football definitely takes things to a different level than most sports (although the eejit quota seems to be on the rise even in sports like golf and tennis). Supporting a team can be an extension of self-identity and can foster a positive sense of community and higher self-esteem. On the negative side, some of those who feel too strong a psychological connection to a team see no limit to the personal abuse they can dish out ie they see the manager or players as directly responsible for ruining their weekend if the team loses. 'I effing hate you because you've failed to make me feel good about myself'.

You also see it, sadly, in kids football, where far too many parents live the whole thing through the lens of how their own kid performs or is treated. Rather than providing encouragement and supporting the development of a young team the behaviour of these people on the touchline can be truly moronic.

[B.H.F.C]

Football is a funny one. If you shouted at someone in the street the way some supporters shout in the stands you'd likely get your head knocked off. If you paid money at a restaurant and the food wasn't up to scratch would you seethe with rage and hurl abuse in front of the whole place? Football seems to be a free for all to act like a deranged petulant child. It's bizarre and a part of the game I really don't like. I don't buy this "I pay my money" bull**** either.

Football isn’t unique. People get abuse and whatever else in loads of professions. I worked in a call centre years ago and you used to take stick from people on a daily basis when you weren’t telling them what they wanted to hear. I remember a guy telling me he’d be waiting outside the office for me. I’d imagine folk in hospitality take all sorts of stick especially when folk are pished. You see companies and people getting lambasted on supposed professional networks like LinkedIn regularly these days.

I’m no condoning anything that is aimed at people involved in football, I just don’t think it’s as unique as some think. Anyone who has went to the football over a period of time will have shouted things at a game or got wound up at times. There is obviously a line that shouldn’t be crossed but that’s life in general IMO.

[B.H.F.C]

This cowardly patter is getting well out of hand. In addition to Kensal, we have had Youan and Rocky targeted relatively recently - and as is well enough known, club legend Lewis Stevenson never used to look at social media for the sake of his sanity.

What can be done to prevent brainless gob*****s who call themselves Hibs "supporters" spewing ananymous bile at players and staff?

No that much IMO. It’s life, not everyone behaves as they should all the time. You can’t really stop that, but you can deal with it when it crosses the line.

[TrinityHFC]

Are they out of context? How do you know what the context was to be able to say that?

Let’s not kid ourselves on, they happened.

Context is always important. The impression of Kensell being a loud mouth who just swanned around pubs actively looking to tell random punters about sacking members of staff and giving away the team line ups is what has been built up and perpetuated.

Is that really likely to have been the case?

Could it be someone has asked him directly about a manager and he's given a pretty standard answer that managers need to get results and that has then been fed back through the grapevine as x is going to get sacked if we don't win the next game...that would be context.

Same with team news - suspect this was Lucerne away where there was some concern over whether certain players would be making it. Funny enough the only confirmation of this story has been 'friends' of certain posters whose position on BK was very clear. I've no doubt there's also some element of him giving comfort to fans on the injury status of players that day. Perhaps if Dempster had done the same it may have been painted as positive fan engagement?

These pretty minor things have been allowed to feed a very negative impression of him as a person, quite apart from the criticism that comes with the impression of the job he was doing. We've seen exactly the same with Youan, Craig, Samson, for example. Personal stuff that takes hold.

[He's here!]

Football isn’t unique. People get abuse and whatever else in loads of professions. I worked in a call centre years ago and you used to take stick from people on a daily basis when you weren’t telling them what they wanted to hear. I remember a guy telling me he’d be waiting outside the office for me. I’d imagine folk in hospitality take all sorts of stick especially when folk are pished. You see companies and people getting lambasted on supposed professional networks like LinkedIn regularly these days.

I’m no condoning anything that is aimed at people involved in football, I just don’t think it’s as unique as some think. Anyone who has went to the football over a period of time will have shouted things at a game or got wound up at times. There is obviously a line that shouldn’t be crossed but that’s life in general IMO.

I sometimes wonder if the dearth of high calibre UK politicians is partly due to the flak that goes with the job, in a couple of relatively recent extreme cases leading to them being murdered.

[easty]

Context is always important. The impression of Kensell being a loud mouth who just swanned around pubs actively looking to tell random punters about sacking members of staff and giving away the team line ups is what has been built up and perpetuated.

Is that really likely to have been the case?

Could it be someone has asked him directly about a manager and he's given a pretty standard answer that managers need to get results and that has then been fed back through the grapevine as x is going to get sacked if we don't win the next game...that would be context.

Same with team news - suspect this was Lucerne away where there was some concern over whether certain players would be making it. Funny enough the only confirmation of this story has been 'friends' of certain posters whose position on BK was very clear. I've no doubt there's also some element of him giving comfort to fans on the injury status of players that day. Perhaps if Dempster had done the same it may have been painted as positive fan engagement?

These pretty minor things have been allowed to feed a very negative impression of him as a person, quite apart from the criticism that comes with the impression of the job he was doing. We've seen exactly the same with Youan, Craig, Samson, for example. Personal stuff that takes hold.

Dempster didnt do it the same way as Kensell though, she was more professional, that's kind of the point.

I was in hospitality before we signed Youan permanently. Kensell swanning about the place telling everyone like he's a wee school boy with gossip.

[Donegal Hibby]

We don't live in a fantasy world where everyone has to be nice to each other, and it doesn't really have to achieve anything. I've never bought into the "if you can be anything be nice" or "if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all" mantras.

I'm also not really interested in what Steven Frail thinks either. Are we meant to think that Steven Frail has only ever shouted nice things at the football?

Yes that’s true in we don’t live in a fantasy world but we can at times at least try and make the one we do live in a better place by our own individual actions etc and your right it doesn’t really achieve anything shouting at a player underperforming but more possibly it could have a negative effect on the player if his/her morale is already low. Only thing I can think of that’s beneficial in shouting abuse at a player is the individual that’s doing it’s own gratification..

Prime example of this was when we played Aberdeen away when some of our own fans booed one of our own players coming on and yet I’m sure the supporters doing it wanted us to win the game though that probably didn’t help matters on that front either ….

I think this has a habit of escalating too with certain players like what I’ve heard about Campbell getting abuse off the pitch , youan on social media etc … really just don’t see what’s the point or what’s to be gained shouting abuse at our own players :dunno:

[ian cruise]

It's growing problem in society. People feel emboldened to say whatever they wish online, then the confidence to say that in general public grows. Look at the US right now and the growth of far right movements, UK politics/society has had its own issues, as has many other countries and continents. There's a misunderstanding between freedom of speech and freedom from consequences.

The law has struggled to keep up with the growth of online platforms being used to target people, and social media, phones, etc are designed to hade people on them all the time (he says unironically using his phone to type his opinion in a football forum). The people who design these platforms and devices use the same techniques as those used by gambling machines (bright colours, flashing lights, notifications to get your attention) and as humans we have ij the main an ingrained need for validation. It's a powder keg for poor mental health.

Yes players in the past got abuse, but we don't know it didn't affect them. We're talking about "the good old days where men were men" which also coincidentally had large numbers or gambling addictions, alcohol abuse, men with depression they couldn't talk about and undocumented spousal abuse. There's every chance these players were just as badly affected, they just didn't feel they had an opportunity to speak out.

The more those in the game (Kettlewell, Stanton, Youan) talk about this the better chance there is of things improving. It's just horrid it's got to this stage.

[easty]

Yes that’s true in we don’t live in a fantasy world but we can at times at least try and make the one we do live in a better place by our own individual actions etc and your right it doesn’t really achieve anything shouting at a player underperforming but more possibly it could have a negative effect on the player if his/her morale is already low. Only thing I can think of that’s beneficial in shouting abuse at a player is the individual that’s doing it’s own gratification..

Prime example of this was when we played Aberdeen away when some of our own fans booed one of our own players coming on and yet I’m sure the supporters doing it wanted us to win the game though that probably didn’t help matters on that front either ….

I think this has a habit of escalating too with certain players like what I’ve heard about Campbell getting abuse off the pitch , youan on social media etc … really just don’t see what’s the point or what’s to be gained shouting abuse at our own players :dunno:

I put "abuse" in inverted commas because I wouldn't call it abuse. Someone else called it criticising, and that's far closer to what I'd actually call it.


Everyone agrees that what's happening with Campbell off the pitch and Youan on social media is wrong. It's really a tiny tiny minority of Hibs fans who will drop to that level though.

[WhileTheChief..]

I often wonder if some people just sit and obsess about football to an unhealthy level all day..

Without a doubt that’s the case. This forum is a good example of it.

Just look at the thread on penalties. The way people interpret things to suit their argument over several days is incredible.

There are posters on here all day every day starting multiple threads and commenting in all of them. That can’t be healthy and points to something missing.

[blackpoolhibs]

Some Rovers fans thought he wasnt pulling his weight and was working his ticket to leave - others thought this was nonsense, as Sam had played really well for them.

His wife actually signed up for Pie and Bovril, and remonstrated with some of the more abusive Rovers posters - she got a lot of support from others, but I think some of the responses were pretty bad.

It was only a matter of time after that that Sam left.

People can be right ********s.

WTF is his wife doing, all she's done is add fuel to the fire?

[WhileTheChief..]

Not having a go but your last part in you can shout at players on the park for playing ***** which could be for many reasons btw . What does it actually achieve ? And is that not the players most in the team that needs support and encouragement? . Watched this with Stephan Frail after Kettlewell resigned and he makes this point in it ….

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13298340/stuart-kettlewell-quits-as-motherwell-boss-caretaker-stephen-frail-discusses-managers-departure-after-abuse-from-some-fans

Maybe you’d feel different if you ever went to a game at ER and experienced it for yourself.

I sit in the west for every game and rarely hear any abuse of any kind being directed at anyone.

[green day]

WTF is his wife doing, all she's done is add fuel to the fire?

Some of the posts had got very personal about his family, their marriage and various other things.

She was putting the record straight.

As it happens, I know someone on the Rovers trust, and for a "wee family club" they have some right bampots in their support.

He said it was really toxic around the time of the Goodwillie stuff.

[J-C]

I'd just like to say I've never met Kensell and wasn't fussed if he spoken to punters in bars etc, my point was he gave the haters a reason to hate.

I never get this abuse crap, shout at the game and have a moan and leave it there, we don't employ world beaters, what else do we expect from them. Social media has turned toxic and we've seen far too many keyboard warriors nowadays, where people think they can say what they want without consequences.

[JimBHibees]

WTF is his wife doing, all she's done is add fuel to the fire?

As tempting as that might have been for her to get involved and support her hubby you have to think that really wouldn’t have helped at all

[superfurryhibby]

Dempster didnt do it the same way as Kensell though, she was more professional, that's kind of the point.

I was in hospitality before we signed Youan permanently. Kensell swanning about the place telling everyone like he's a wee school boy with gossip.

So professional that she employed a close associate to a senior post at Hibs when there was a clear conflict of interest?

I think Trinity HFC's point is valid.

I get what you're saying about Kensell, but he's telling a fairly select group of Hibs fans about a deal which was done, but not announced via the media. A fine line between making people feel involved and leaking stories at times. Judgement calls are made, people are only human and perhaps your perception of BK swanning around and gossiping are slightly tinged by other factors?

[easty]

So professional that she employed a close associate to a senior post at Hibs when there was a clear conflict of interest?

I think Trinity HFC's point is valid.

I get what you're saying about Kensell, but he's telling a fairly select group of Hibs fans about a deal which was done, but not announced via the media. A fine line between making people feel involved and leaking stories at times. Judgement calls are made, people are only human and perhaps your perception of BK swanning around and gossiping are slightly tinged by other factors?

What's the story there?

[The Modfather]

Are we not all hypocrites, or see things through green tinted lenses? There’s unanimous condemnation of abuse for the likes of Kensel, Sam Stanton etc and how messageboards bleed into the real world. However, to play devils advocate, how do those views line up with the normalisation of the emphasis of Brian McLaughlin being fat, or Shanklands weight and forehead etc?

[J-C]

Are we not all hypocrites, or see things through green tinted lenses? There’s unanimous condemnation of abuse for the likes of Kensel, Sam Stanton etc and how messageboards bleed into the real world. However, to play devils advocate, how do those views line up with the normalisation of the emphasis of Brian McLaughlin being fat, or Shanklands weight and forehead etc?

But do we as normal fans keep our moaning to just these messageboards and not start personally abusing these people directly. If Kensell or any other Hibs employee came on here would you start attacking him personally? I think I remember Kensell was getting the odd nasty email sent to him, if Stanton's wife was getting personal abuse online, then it's bang out of order.

We all can have a wee moan on here and slag off other sets of supporters/managers/players pundits etc, but we as normal fans leave it here and take it no further, well I'd hope that's what we'd do.

[ian cruise]

Are we not all hypocrites, or see things through green tinted lenses? There’s unanimous condemnation of abuse for the likes of Kensel, Sam Stanton etc and how messageboards bleed into the real world. However, to play devils advocate, how do those views line up with the normalisation of the emphasis of Brian McLaughlin being fat, or Shanklands weight and forehead etc?

Let's be honest, we shouldn't be doing that either. I know it's fashionable to say calling out such things is "woke nonsense" and it's just a, joke but it's not anything people would (or should not) say to their face so why say it from the safety of a laptop?

In an age of growing awareness and acceptance of depression amongst men, normalising situations where we take shots at people for their appearance is pretty akin to school bullying.

Plus they're jambos, that's enough reason to laugh at them without picking on their appearance.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Maybe society needs to find a better way. Football can be a force for good as you see through many of the community foundation initiatives helping with lunches, mental health, fitness, after school clubs etc.

[blackpoolhibs]

Some of the posts had got very personal about his family, their marriage and various other things.

She was putting the record straight.

As it happens, I know someone on the Rovers trust, and for a "wee family club" they have some right bampots in their support.

He said it was really toxic around the time of the Goodwillie stuff.


As tempting as that might have been for her to get involved and support her hubby you have to think that really wouldn’t have helped at all

Saved me replying Jim.:agree:

[superfurryhibby]

What's the story there?

I would say she was good for Hibs, but there were also challenges. The commercial side of things wasn't adequately developed under her stewardship and that's putting it kindly.

She has a lot of goodwill for her role in rebuilding the club after the debacle of relegation and of course, being part of the holy grail achievement. I think things were unwinding a bit before the Gordon's came in, no doubt her personal circumstances were also difficult (bereavement). The appointment of a close friend with an active interest in Glasgow City FC to a significant role at Hibs is the one that springs to mind.

Kensell is hard to appraise. The one time I spoke with him, he came across as a decent guy. He's certainly commercialised the club successfully, but this has coincided with the disaster of Ian Gordon's transfer strategies, which have really wreaked havoc with our finances. I suspect Kensell deserves a fair bit of credit for our link up with Black Knights, amongst other things.

[Sioux]

Whatever criticism Lewis received on here was always about his limitations technically ... EG not the best at beating his man and getting a cross in. His character as a human being and the 100% effort he gave in every single game was never questioned on here. Criticising a players ability isn't abuse.

Anyway ... all the best to Sam Stanton, definitely RRs loss.

So, is shouting at a player "You're f****** s**** ya c*** get to f*** out of this club" abuse or criticism?

This was a quote from a clown behind me at the Dundee game at Dens by the way.

[ekhibee]

Are we not all hypocrites, or see things through green tinted lenses? There’s unanimous condemnation of abuse for the likes of Kensel, Sam Stanton etc and how messageboards bleed into the real world. However, to play devils advocate, how do those views line up with the normalisation of the emphasis of Brian McLaughlin being fat, or Shanklands weight and forehead etc?

I agree totally that in reality we probably are all hypocrites, but on the subject of McLaughlin etc, it really does just seem to be a kind of retaliation of a tribal nature, because Hearts seem to get plenty of free publicity, and have a programme on a national broadcaster pretty well totally devoted to the points of view of the numerous Hearts fans on the show. I don't know if the fans of Motherwell, Ross County or Dundee, for example, would take as much exception to it as we do, because they are our city rivals. Just my opinion though.

[Smartie]

I agree totally that in reality we probably are all hypocrites, but on the subject of McLaughlin etc, it really does just seem to be a kind of retaliation of a tribal nature, because Hearts seem to get plenty of free publicity, and have a programme on a national broadcaster pretty well totally devoted to the points of view of the numerous Hearts fans on the show. I don't know if the fans of Motherwell, Ross County or Dundee, for example, would take as much exception to it as we do, because they are our city rivals. Just my opinion though.

If I was employed to cover Edinburgh football for a public service broadcaster and did so in an unashamedly Hibs-centric way then I’d expect every aspect of me, my appearance and my persona to be pilloried by the Jambo faithful.

[ekhibee]

If I was employed to cover Edinburgh football for a public service broadcaster and did so in an unashamedly Hibs-centric way then I’d expect every aspect of me, my appearance and my persona to be pilloried by the Jambo faithful.

Very true. But it isn't.

[McD]

There has been a case of a referee who has been receiving abuse and threats this week. We all have opinions on referees but they are doing a job of work. This could have an impact on people taking up refereeing.


I read a thing yesterday about a 15yo lad refereeing an u11s match. The first half the away team’s coaches, all grown adults, screamed abuse at him constantly. The home side’s club secretary approached them to ask them to calm it down and remind them that not only was it juvenile football, but the referee also really still a boy. This request was met with the same type of vitriol that they’d been directing at the lad refereeing. Pathetic

[southern hibby]

There has been a case of a referee who has been receiving abuse and threats this week. We all have opinions on referees but they are doing a job of work. This could have an impact on people taking up refereeing.

I may be totally wrong here about refs but here’s my take on them.

I believe ( because of where most of them live ) that most of them are actually pro Celtic/ Rangers biased, because of their home area. The majority come from the West Coast, Glasgow and the surrounding areas. To this end if they come out their front door and turn left or right, they have to live in areas where they are surrounded by Celtic/rangers fans.

They all have other jobs so have to work in that area as do their wives and kids go to schools in that area too. To this end how easy is it to one week give decisions one week to Celtic next week to rangers knowing that it makes their lives so much easier in the long run.

It’s so much easier for the sake of your family to be like this and let’s be honest the SFA actually encourages it by making the majority of top flight refs come from this area as it definitely helps the status who of the weegie two.

I may be ( and possibly am ) totally wrong but this is what I’ve thought for a long time.

GGTTH

[JimBHibees]

I read a thing yesterday about a 15yo lad refereeing an u11s match. The first half the away team’s coaches, all grown adults, screamed abuse at him constantly. The home side’s club secretary approached them to ask them to calm it down and remind them that not only was it juvenile football, but the referee also really still a boy. This request was met with the same type of vitriol that they’d been directing at the lad refereeing. Pathetic

Should have abandoned the game

[JimBHibees]

I may be totally wrong here about refs but here’s my take on them.

I believe ( because of where most of them live ) that most of them are actually pro Celtic/ Rangers biased, because of their home area. The majority come from the West Coast, Glasgow and the surrounding areas. To this end if they come out their front door and turn left or right, they have to live in areas where they are surrounded by Celtic/rangers fans.

They all have other jobs so have to work in that area as do their wives and kids go to schools in that area too. To this end how easy is it to one week give decisions one week to Celtic next week to rangers knowing that it makes their lives so much easier in the long run.

It’s so much easier for the sake of your family to be like this and let’s be honest the SFA actually encourages it by making the majority of top flight refs come from this area as it definitely helps the status who of the weegie two.

I may be ( and possibly am ) totally wrong but this is what I’ve thought for a long time.

GGTTH

Think you have nailed it

[BILLYHIBS]

I may be totally wrong here about refs but here’s my take on them.

I believe ( because of where most of them live ) that most of them are actually pro Celtic/ Rangers biased, because of their home area. The majority come from the West Coast, Glasgow and the surrounding areas. To this end if they come out their front door and turn left or right, they have to live in areas where they are surrounded by Celtic/rangers fans.

They all have other jobs so have to work in that area as do their wives and kids go to schools in that area too. To this end how easy is it to one week give decisions one week to Celtic next week to rangers knowing that it makes their lives so much easier in the long run.

It’s so much easier for the sake of your family to be like this and let’s be honest the SFA actually encourages it by making the majority of top flight refs come from this area as it definitely helps the status who of the weegie two.

I may be ( and possibly am ) totally wrong but this is what I’ve thought for a long time.

GGTTH

:agree:

The West Coast Mafia has always been this way ever since I started supporting Hibs over 60 years ago

If it is not Glasgow it is the surrounding areas

[Dight]

Maybe you’d feel different if you ever went to a game at ER and experienced it for yourself.

I sit in the west for every game and rarely hear any abuse of any kind being directed at anyone.

I have witnessed some severe tutting and shaking of heads.

[The dalmeny]

So, is shouting at a player "You're f****** s**** ya c*** get to f*** out of this club" abuse or criticism?

This was a quote from a clown behind me at the Dundee game at Dens by the way.

I think a lot of players just blank that out, and I suspect much of it cant be heard on the pitch.

Does lead to the position where players just think some fans are @rseholes.

[RIP]

Maybe you’d feel different if you ever went to a game at ER and experienced it for yourself.

I sit in the west for every game and rarely hear any abuse of any kind being directed at anyone.

Apart from one attention seeker per section, I'd say the same about the East.

The number of trolls on this forum could all fit into my row. Not that their presence would be welcomed.

Few in number but can't half stink this place out at times.

[A Hi-Bee]

Here was me thinking that Hibs had signed some Greek player called Hypocrites, more like gossips.

[gbhibby]

Maybe you’d feel different if you ever went to a game at ER and experienced it for yourself.

I sit in the west for every game and rarely hear any abuse of any kind being directed at anyone.
They are too busy eating their prawn sandwiches and canapés

[McD]

Should have abandoned the game


The piece was written with the information being provided by the referee’s dad, who said that his lad had told him he wasn’t wanting to continue refereeing

[gbhibby]

Should have abandoned the game

My Dad did abandon a game for the abuse coming from one teams substitute and committee members. Was not given backing by the leagues association or the referees association.

[JimBHibees]

My Dad did abandon a game for the abuse coming from one teams substitute and committee members. Was not given backing by the leagues association or the referees association.

Not a surprise unfortunately if numpty teams aren’t pulled up and disciplined it is a slippery slope.

[JimBHibees]

The piece was written with the information being provided by the referee’s dad, who said that his lad had told him he wasn’t wanting to continue refereeing

Utterly shameful state of affairs genuinely think sfa should be much more proactive in sorting out this culture

[hibsbollah]

It's growing problem in society. People feel emboldened to say whatever they wish online, then the confidence to say that in general public grows. Look at the US right now and the growth of far right movements, UK politics/society has had its own issues, as has many other countries and continents. There's a misunderstanding between freedom of speech and freedom from consequences.

The law has struggled to keep up with the growth of online platforms being used to target people, and social media, phones, etc are designed to hade people on them all the time (he says unironically using his phone to type his opinion in a football forum). The people who design these platforms and devices use the same techniques as those used by gambling machines (bright colours, flashing lights, notifications to get your attention) and as humans we have ij the main an ingrained need for validation. It's a powder keg for poor mental health.

Yes players in the past got abuse, but we don't know it didn't affect them. We're talking about "the good old days where men were men" which also coincidentally had large numbers or gambling addictions, alcohol abuse, men with depression they couldn't talk about and undocumented spousal abuse. There's every chance these players were just as badly affected, they just didn't feel they had an opportunity to speak out.

The more those in the game (Kettlewell, Stanton, Youan) talk about this the better chance there is of things improving. It's just horrid it's got to this stage.

What an excellent post :agree: