Manchester United

[theonlywayisup]

How bad are they?

Just watching Match of the Day 2. They are getting worse not better.

Is Amorin out of his depth? Saying this is maybe the worst United team ever is brave, but there's a point when the finger needs pointed at him. He's made them worse!

I wonder how long United fans will be patient with Amorin. Seeing teams like Brighton and Bournemouth coming to Old Trafford and winning comfortably won't be accepted for too long despite the need for a massive rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo

[flash]

How bad are they?

Just watching Match of the Day 2. They are getting worse not better.

Is Amorin out of his depth? Saying this is maybe the worst United team ever is brave, but there's a point when the finger needs pointed at him. He's made them worse!

I wonder how long United fans will be patient with Amorin. Seeing teams like Brighton and Bournemouth coming to Old Trafford and winning comfortably won't be accepted for too long despite the need for a massive rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo

They are in dire need of one of your positivity threads. :greengrin

[hibee1875]

There’s so much money in the EPL that the saying “teams like Brighton and Bournemouth” doesn’t really hold water. These are well coached teams playing systems drilled into them. They all have multi million pound players. We’ve even seen with Man City this season that they’re not gods.

Bar maybe the teams coming up from the championship every other team would fancy their chances against each other

[Gloucester Hibs]

There’s so much money in the EPL that the saying “teams like Brighton and Bournemouth” doesn’t really hold water. These are well coached teams playing systems drilled into them. They all have multi million pound players. We’ve even seen with Man City this season that they’re not gods.

Bar maybe the teams coming up from the championship every other team would fancy their chances against each other

Yep the Sky TV money is a real leveler. Not sure if PSR maybe plays a part too, means the super-rich clubs bankrolled by nation states can't easily pull away from the rest.

[Callum_62]

There’s so much money in the EPL that the saying “teams like Brighton and Bournemouth” doesn’t really hold water. These are well coached teams playing systems drilled into them. They all have multi million pound players. We’ve even seen with Man City this season that they’re not gods.

Bar maybe the teams coming up from the championship every other team would fancy their chances against each otherMan utd have a 5 year net spend of 539M

Bournemouth 127M

Brighton 49M

They are all spending millions but there's still levels within that

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

Whatever you think of Manchester United, I genuinely find it sad to watch. What’s happened to them since the Glaziers took over and Fergie retiring has gone from being amusing to quite tragic - a club saddled with debt, a crumbling stadium, a terrible squad. Absolutely been picked down to the bone.

Find them a much more important club than their city neighbours and the more strong teams down south the better.

[flash]

Whatever you think of Manchester United, I genuinely find it sad to watch. What’s happened to them since the Glaziers took over and Fergie retiring has gone from being amusing to quite tragic - a club saddled with debt, a crumbling stadium, a terrible squad. Absolutely been picked down to the bone.

Find them a much more important club than their city neighbours and the more strong teams down south the better.

By that metric you must have hated Rangers going bust.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think this weekend is the first where I’ve questioned whether them and/or spurs could genuinely go down.

They’re in free fall but I reckon they’ve possibly built a big enough gap to remain safe. Think they usually say 40 points in the EPL is enough, I’m not convinced they’ll reach that but I think the bottom 3 have left themselves far too much to do to meet that as well.

[BILLYHIBS]

Imagine selling McTominay ? :faf:

As Paulie said above ‘ How **** are Spurs ?

New Man U Manager has been thrown under the bus has his work cut out

Needs to revisit Sporting and sign their striker and clear out Man U’s deadwood

[Northernhibee]

By that metric you must have hated Rangers going bust.

No, I’ve had a soft spot for Man United under Fergie. Rangers have always been an utterly horrible club.

[TrinityHFC]

How bad are they?

Just watching Match of the Day 2. They are getting worse not better.

Is Amorin out of his depth? Saying this is maybe the worst United team ever is brave, but there's a point when the finger needs pointed at him. He's made them worse!

I wonder how long United fans will be patient with Amorin. Seeing teams like Brighton and Bournemouth coming to Old Trafford and winning comfortably won't be accepted for too long despite the need for a massive rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo

The full quote refers to himself and his awareness that people will be looking at him making them worse.

[The Harp Awakes]

I think Manchester United are a classic example of a club that has lost it's soul, caused in part by the obscene amounts of money involved in the English Premier League.

They have a sense of entitlement and have stood still where other less glamorous clubs have spent their money and recruited more wisely.

They have also recruited overpriced players who are not prepared to work hard off the ball and who see United as just another rich English club.

They need a clear out of their current squad and need to start again. I'm not sure their current Manager is the person to do it though.

[blackpoolhibs]

I have family members who are season ticket holders at Old Trafford, and they are all behind the new manager.

They were all behind the last one too. :greengrin

Who knows how they improve the squad and the ground at the same time, but they do not have that fear factor anymore, and every team in the league have good players who on their day can hurt any team.

And when you have a lot of players who might have cost a fortune, but are not in the new managers plans, we saw at a lower level under Butcher, nothing the manager does works and it takes a huge reset to turn things round.

Nevermind, they could be Spurs. :wink:

[Ray_]

By that metric you must have hated Rangers going bust.

The huge difference Flash, it is not religious bigotry that sets Man Utd apart.

[Hibs90]

I find it funny people still talk about Man Utd like it's some sort of surprise when they get beat. They have largely been crap since Fergie retired and how long ago was that now? Are we still going to get the coverage on it after every single defeat? Neville, Carragher and Keane rehashing the same points every week.

It's getting boring. It's been years and they are getting worse if anything - it's no longer a surprise or a shock result when Brighton rock up to Old Trafford and win comfortably.

[worcesterhibby]

Very sad to see all the tributes to Dennis Law at the start and then a very, very poor Many Utd team, let down his memory like that. Like others, I really don't care much about Man Utd.. I just thought they played wonderful football under Fergie and I dislike their neighbours more ! Selling McTominay, was utter madness... the last man at the club with a passion for the badge on his shirt. They now have ZERO players who play fo the club.. they all play for an inflated wage packet.

There is a stink eminating from old trafford and it's not going away anytime soon. I'm no fan of Radcliffe and the only good thing about Man utd's decline is that it actually seems to have got worse under his stewardship. Maybe £billions, tax avoidance and a flagrant disregard for the environment can't buy you success after all.

[Musselbound]

There’s so much money in the EPL that the saying “teams like Brighton and Bournemouth” doesn’t really hold water. These are well coached teams playing systems drilled into them. They all have multi million pound players. We’ve even seen with Man City this season that they’re not gods.

Bar maybe the teams coming up from the championship every other team would fancy their chances against each other

That's a good point. Bournemouth won 4-1 at Newcastle as well so it's not as simple as smaller clubs beating bigger ones as if it's like a cup shock.

I heard Brighton have now beaten Man U 6 out of the last 7 times so it can't even be seen as a surprise now. On Anorim, he has won the Portuguese title with a club that doesn't win that many so I wouldn't say he was out of his depth, albeit Man U is a very big first job in English football.

Man U have been inconsistent at best for years but I wouldn't argue they look even worse at the moment. They were relegated in the 70s so I wouldn't go as far as to say it's their worst ever team yet.

[Alex Trager]

How bad are they?

Just watching Match of the Day 2. They are getting worse not better.

Is Amorin out of his depth? Saying this is maybe the worst United team ever is brave, but there's a point when the finger needs pointed at him. He's made them worse!

I wonder how long United fans will be patient with Amorin. Seeing teams like Brighton and Bournemouth coming to Old Trafford and winning comfortably won't be accepted for too long despite the need for a massive rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo
I for one love seeing them being *****.
No real reasoning behind that tbh.

On their manager, it’s madness to me that he won’t change his system. He has come out and said it absolutely won’t change, whilst also slating the team. Considering he’s slated the team, you’d be safe to presume he doesn’t fancy many of them to stay.

So why persist with a system that the players you have aren’t able to play?

I cannot understand why manager die by **** like formations.

Switch it up and then as you get your players in you can bed in your system.

Seems crazy to me.

[O'Rourke3]

I find it funny people still talk about Man Utd like it's some sort of surprise when they get beat. They have largely been crap since Fergie retired and how long ago was that now? Are we still going to get the coverage on it after every single defeat? Neville, Carragher and Keane rehashing the same points every week.

It's getting boring. It's been years and they are getting worse if anything - it's no longer a surprise or a shock result when Brighton rock up to Old Trafford and win comfortably.Said this before. They have had two spells of continued success thanks to two exceptional Scottish managers. Thereafter they are competitive but not exceptional. Fergie's unparalleled period of titles means the hangers on will leave, leaving the fans who protested about the Glazers cold comfort as their predictions have come to pass.Possibly from The Championship.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

[HendoDelivered]

The decline of Man Utd is a joy to watch.

From a Liverpool fan :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Whatever you think of Manchester United, I genuinely find it sad to watch. What’s happened to them since the Glaziers took over and Fergie retiring has gone from being amusing to quite tragic - a club saddled with debt, a crumbling stadium, a terrible squad. Absolutely been picked down to the bone.

Find them a much more important club than their city neighbours and the more strong teams down south the better.

Having grown up in the 90s and seeing them win everything. With legions of my school mates (in Bath) fawning over them. The sense of Schadenfreude I get from seeing them in this state warms my heart.

J

[Ribs1875]

My grandad used to harp on about how unt were nothing special besides those two era of Scottish managers. As soon as Fergie left they completely declined. I don't watch English football and haven't done so since about 2013.

It is entertaining every week listening to folk like Gary Neville and Roy Keane go high pitched over the decline. I get they played in a successful era, but to week in and week out bang on about how unt should be top dog is utter nonsense giving how bad they have been.

[theonlywayisup]

Said this before. They have had two spells of continued success thanks to two exceptional Scottish managers. Thereafter they are competitive but not exceptional. Fergie's unparalleled period of titles means the hangers on will leave, leaving the fans who protested about the Glazers cold comfort as their predictions have come to pass.Possibly from The Championship.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

Agree re Fergie and Busby. Take away their success and they've under-achieved compared to the other giants of English football.

Their title wins are listed below. Those in bold are when Fergie was there and those in red when Busby was the manager. Ernest Mangnall is the only other manager to have won the top division title in England.

1907–08, 1910–11, 1951–52, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1964–65, 1966–67, 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13

Add into the mix that it was both Busby and Fergie that won the European Cup / Champions League as well.

They look years away from winning the title again. Maybe they need to wait for SDG to win a few titles with Hibernian FC before going south to do a Fergie.

[Carheenlea]

Man utd have a 5 year net spend of 539M

Bournemouth 127M

Brighton 49M

They are all spending millions but there's still levels within that



While there appears to be unlimited millions swilling about the EPL, there isn’t a conveyor belt of genuine multi million pound talent being churned out and ready to buy.

Whether you have 530M, 127M or even 50M, a top quality, competitive squad can be assembled.

The fans of the big English clubs loved it when the ludicrous sums of cash first started coming their way. Now that everyone has ludicrous sums of money at their disposal simply being a long established “big club” doesn’t equate to on field success, and it’s not quite as much fun anymore.

[hibee1875]

Man utd have a 5 year net spend of 539M

Bournemouth 127M

Brighton 49M

They are all spending millions but there's still levels within that

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk


Man Utd have spent badly. €95m on Antony and €42.5 on Zirkzee

[Smartie]

How bad are they?

Just watching Match of the Day 2. They are getting worse not better.

Is Amorin out of his depth? Saying this is maybe the worst United team ever is brave, but there's a point when the finger needs pointed at him. He's made them worse!

I wonder how long United fans will be patient with Amorin. Seeing teams like Brighton and Bournemouth coming to Old Trafford and winning comfortably won't be accepted for too long despite the need for a massive rebuild.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c77r85gj45xo

I don't think they just need ANOTHER managerial change.

"Teams like Brighton and Bournemouth" have had good habits ingrained into their clubs for a while - United have had the opposite. That takes more than just a managerial change to correct. "Teams like Brighton and Bournemouth" have players with hunger, who have an awful lot still to prove when they join those clubs. When a player joins Manchester United they've made it.

United seem to be unusual in that their fans seem to get what its all about and are prepared to be patient. It's the idiots who have owned the club who don't have a clue.

They need to pick someone who is going to be there for a while, start making slow but significant improvements and accept that it is going to take a bit of time.

They're in a blessed position in that most clubs' headbanger supports would be congregating in the plaza or whatever their equivalent is every fortnight. Theirs are patient and supportive and having had their ups and downs as a club know that sometimes you have to take the rough for a while before the smooth comes back around again.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The decline of Man Utd is a joy to watch.

From a Liverpool fan :greengrin

They're not even halfway to your 30 year title gap yet :greengrin

[matty_f]

I for one love seeing them being *****.
No real reasoning behind that tbh.

On their manager, it’s madness to me that he won’t change his system. He has come out and said it absolutely won’t change, whilst also slating the team. Considering he’s slated the team, you’d be safe to presume he doesn’t fancy many of them to stay.

So why persist with a system that the players you have aren’t able to play?

I cannot understand why manager die by **** like formations.

Switch it up and then as you get your players in you can bed in your system.

Seems crazy to me.

It’s ego and shows the manager puts themselves before the team. The boy that got sacked at Southampton wanted his team to play a certain way and was getting beat every week. That’s an idiot, there’s no two ways about it.

Same with Monty here - ultimately got sacked because he couldn’t see what he was doing wasn’t working and rather than being pragmatic he stuck to it and cost the club potentially millions by missing out on Europe and top six.

A manager that puts themselves over the team and results is destined to fail, you need to get results and build to how you want to play if the players you have can’t do what you want. The team has to come first.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Agree re Fergie and Busby. Take away their success and they've under-achieved compared to the other giants of English football.

Their title wins are listed below. Those in bold are when Fergie was there and those in red when Busby was the manager. Ernest Mangnall is the only other manager to have won the top division title in England.

1907–08, 1910–11, 1951–52, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1964–65, 1966–67, 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13

Add into the mix that it was both Busby and Fergie that won the European Cup / Champions League as well.

They look years away from winning the title again. Maybe they need to wait for SDG to win a few titles with Hibernian FC before going south to do a Fergie.

Seen this argument before and don't really get it.

The Busby era and the ferguson era combined adds up to over half a century of United being a very important team in English football. Not all of those years under those two managers were successful (Busby had to rebuild a couple of times, ferguson took years to sort them out) but between them they built about 6 great teams. Add in Ernest Mangnell before WW1 and it's 7 great teams. That's a lot more than most tbh. What does it really matter that it was only three managers who achieved it?

It would be a stretch to say I have a soft spot for United, I lived and worked in Manchester for about 5 years in the 2000s and have mates on both sides of the red/blue divide.

The comment a few posts up about the fans does seem accurate too. They have been remarkably patient given the crap they've been served up for over a decade now

[Paulie Walnuts]

It’s ego and shows the manager puts themselves before the team. The boy that got sacked at Southampton wanted his team to play a certain way and was getting beat every week. That’s an idiot, there’s no two ways about it.

Same with Monty here - ultimately got sacked because he couldn’t see what he was doing wasn’t working and rather than being pragmatic he stuck to it and cost the club potentially millions by missing out on Europe and top six.

A manager that puts themselves over the team and results is destined to fail, you need to get results and build to how you want to play if the players you have can’t do what you want. The team has to come first.

:agree:

Monty is a perfect example here. I said very early on in his tenure that he wouldn’t last if he didn’t adapt. His system was absolutely dreadful and clearly wasn’t working yet he was publicly insistent it wouldn’t be changing. We should have just sacked him there and then and saved ourself the bother, as you say it’s nothing other than their ego taking priority over the needs of the team/club.

I reckon Gray prefers a 4 at the back, however he’s changed from that (partly forced) and it’s worked for him. Monty really should have done the same, instead he forced a 16 year old into the team at right back who was nowhere near ready to allow him to carry on with his failing formation.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Seen this argument before and don't really get it.

The Busby era and the ferguson era combined adds up to over half a century of United being a very important team in English football. Not all of those years under those two managers were successful (Busby had to rebuild a couple of times, ferguson took years to sort them out) but between them they built about 6 great teams. Add in Ernest Mangnell before WW1 and it's 7 great teams. That's a lot more than most tbh. What does it really matter that it was only three managers who achieved it?

It would be a stretch to say I have a soft spot for United, I lived and worked in Manchester for about 5 years in the 2000s and have mates on both sides of the red/blue divide.

The comment a few posts up about the fans does seem accurate too. They have been remarkably patient given the crap they've been served up for over a decade now

:agree:

And given the 3 managers you’ve named account for 60 years of their history it’s hardly a huge surprise that they make up the vast majority of their honours. Using it as a stick to beat them with seems strange.

Post war they had a barren spell in the 70s and 80s (where they still won 4 FA cups). Other than that they’ve had fairly regular success that whole time.

[Pagan Hibernia]

My grandad used to harp on about how unt were nothing special besides those two era of Scottish managers. As soon as Fergie left they completely declined. I don't watch English football and haven't done so since about 2013.

It is entertaining every week listening to folk like Gary Neville and Roy Keane go high pitched over the decline. I get they played in a successful era, but to week in and week out bang on about how unt should be top dog is utter nonsense giving how bad they have been.

Take away the successful years and they've been mediocre. True, I guess.

[gbhibby]

Seen them relegated before, not bothered if it happens again. Never understood the Manchester United love in. The money the Glazers took out of the club would have built them a new stadium.

[Scouse Hibee]

Took great delight when they were pish poor as Liverpool dominated, taking great delight once again in seeing them pish poor 😀

[Donegal Hibby]

Having owners like the Glazers who have been like a giant leech bleeding them dry for years while their stadium has been deteriorating IMO has been a large part of the problem , Newcastle had Mike Ashley and other clubs have had similar owners were the clubs have never been the no1 priority and it’s been more a case of what they can take for themselves. The main reason for all their mistakes I’m happy we have the Gordon’s as our owners because I genuinely believe they care about our football club.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

I grew up with United as my "second team" way behind hibs of course, but it was as the fergie era lifted off so growing up all I knew was a success side

Post fergie, United continue to spend like the global giant they are. Their recruitment though has been nothing short of shambolic. Throwing money at anybody. From sanchez and pogba as superstars to nobody's like zirkzee and Antony. Then entrusting their managers input too much on players under ETH

I don't recall any point other than LVG when you would look and say "I see a style and what United are trying to achieve"

Teams are coming to old Trafford and dominating. Probably because the current players are poorer than many of their counterparts but it's not entirely that. This side have gotten results against arsenal, Liverpool and city over the last month or 2

The only real change so far is rashford being frozen out. They need to be doing that with a number of other players starting with the GK.

[flash]

I love seeing massive clubs in turmoil. Long may it continue and hopefully a few more join them in disarray.

[Ray_]

Seen this argument before and don't really get it.

The Busby era and the ferguson era combined adds up to over half a century of United being a very important team in English football. Not all of those years under those two managers were successful (Busby had to rebuild a couple of times, ferguson took years to sort them out) but between them they built about 6 great teams. Add in Ernest Mangnell before WW1 and it's 7 great teams. That's a lot more than most tbh. What does it really matter that it was only three managers who achieved it?

It would be a stretch to say I have a soft spot for United, I lived and worked in Manchester for about 5 years in the 2000s and have mates on both sides of the red/blue divide.

The comment a few posts up about the fans does seem accurate too. They have been remarkably patient given the crap they've been served up for over a decade now



As you said, United's early success came before WWI, and it was Busby's appointment that prevented them from continuing being a yo-yo club and he brought them success.

Busby's Babes and Munich turned them into a worldwide phenonium, enhanced by the Best, Law & Charlton era.

As a youngster, Man Urd were my English team, which was 100% due to George Best, who I adored as a footballer. I also had a soft spot for Liverpool, following our 1970, fairs cup games against them, and especially the reception their fans gave us in their supporter's club, after the away leg.

I moved south in 1973, to Reddish and most of my pals were City supporters. Not surprisingly, Maine Road and Belle Vue, were only a couple of miles away.

My boss, whom I met two days after I arrived, was very interested in the recent Home International, Scotland v N Ireland, particularly when I told him that I was at the game. His brother had scored the winner and he also played for Man Utd. Bestie was still at Man U, but missing, Tommy Doc, was rebuilding Man U, with predominantly Scottish players, which naturally appealed to me. My boss, Jim and I became good friends and he used to take me regularly to Old Trafford, where we would enter via the player's entrance.

Man U were crap, especially after me just witnessing the greatest Hibs team, in my lifetime, during the 1972/3 season. Leeds was running away with the English league and were on the run where they set a new undefeated record in English top-flight football when they played Hibs in the UEFA Cup. The day following the away leg, Jim had thought I had been wildly exaggerating when I talked up that Hibs team. After watching that game, he no longer believed that, as Hibs, time and again, tore Leeds apart [but didn't get the goals they deserved].

Man U were duly relegated and "The Doc" rebuilt them in that season in the lower division and a young and vibrant team returned to the top division. I had moved further south by the time Utd started their 2nd division campaign and promotion and an FA Cup win was all they won with Docherty's young team.

Before Ferguson arrived, unlike Leeds, Man U, although trophyless, remained one of England's top teams. They regularly spent big, attracted big stars and played excellent football, but their fans could never be accused of being glory hunters, although their appeal remained far and wide.

[Pretty Boy]

Seen this argument before and don't really get it.

The Busby era and the ferguson era combined adds up to over half a century of United being a very important team in English football. Not all of those years under those two managers were successful (Busby had to rebuild a couple of times, ferguson took years to sort them out) but between them they built about 6 great teams. Add in Ernest Mangnell before WW1 and it's 7 great teams. That's a lot more than most tbh. What does it really matter that it was only three managers who achieved it?

It would be a stretch to say I have a soft spot for United, I lived and worked in Manchester for about 5 years in the 2000s and have mates on both sides of the red/blue divide.

The comment a few posts up about the fans does seem accurate too. They have been remarkably patient given the crap they've been served up for over a decade now

I agree as an argument it doesn't make any sense.

It's like saying if you discount Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish then Liverpool have only won 20 trophies rather than over 70 or don't count Wenger and Arsenal have only won 10 major trophies rather than 21.

[JimBHibees]

Seen this argument before and don't really get it.

The Busby era and the ferguson era combined adds up to over half a century of United being a very important team in English football. Not all of those years under those two managers were successful (Busby had to rebuild a couple of times, ferguson took years to sort them out) but between them they built about 6 great teams. Add in Ernest Mangnell before WW1 and it's 7 great teams. That's a lot more than most tbh. What does it really matter that it was only three managers who achieved it?

It would be a stretch to say I have a soft spot for United, I lived and worked in Manchester for about 5 years in the 2000s and have mates on both sides of the red/blue divide.

The comment a few posts up about the fans does seem accurate too. They have been remarkably patient given the crap they've been served up for over a decade now

Totally agree similar to the Monty Python life of Brian sketch apart from all these 100 things what have the Romans ever done for us :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

I agree as an argument it doesn't make any sense.

It's like saying if you discount Shankly, Paisley and Dalglish then Liverpool have only won 20 trophies rather than over 70 or don't count Wenger and Arsenal have only won 10 major trophies rather than 21.

Agreed it’s a pretty silly argument in my opinion. I put it up there with folk who say, if it wasn’t for their keeper they would have lost that game, or if it wasn’t for their striker they would be nowhere. I hate when people say that as if those particular players are not part of the “team” that has just beaten them.

[Bishop Hibee]

They spent £50m on Fred. Thats all you need to know.

[He's here!]

Agree re Fergie and Busby. Take away their success and they've under-achieved compared to the other giants of English football.

Their title wins are listed below. Those in bold are when Fergie was there and those in red when Busby was the manager. Ernest Mangnall is the only other manager to have won the top division title in England.

1907–08, 1910–11, 1951–52, 1955–56, 1956–57, 1964–65, 1966–67, 1992–93, 1993–94, 1995–96, 1996–97, 1998–99, 1999–2000, 2000–01, 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13

Add into the mix that it was both Busby and Fergie that won the European Cup / Champions League as well.

They look years away from winning the title again. Maybe they need to wait for SDG to win a few titles with Hibernian FC before going south to do a Fergie.

Just because their most consistently successful years were under two managers doesn't diminish their status as a giant of the game. Pretty sure they've won more titles overall than anyone else.

Even post-Fergie they've won two FA Cups, two League Cups and a European trophy. A paltry haul in relation to what they were used to under Ferguson but still miles better than most.

My grandad and dad used to follow United due to Matt Busby playing for Hibs when he was stationed in the Borders during the war and my dad remembers him bringing United to ER for (I think) Gordon Smith's testimonial. I've always kept an eye out for them because of that and loved watching them during the Ferguson era.

Busby said back then: "I didn't take any persuasion to sign for such a great club and I spent some of the happiest footballing days of my life at Easter Road. The Hibs result is still the first one I look for."

[TrinityHFC]

Totally agree similar to the Monty Python Holy grail sketch apart from all these 100 things what have the Romans ever done for us :greengrin

Life of Brian...

[Wembley67]

What's the craich with the Glazers? How much have they taken out of the club, is it documented?

If Man U are still towards the top end of the spending table then surely the Glazers can't be to blame for all of this?

[JimBHibees]

Life of Brian...

So it was :greengrin

[skyehibee]

The recruitment has been painfully bad.

[Donegal Hibby]

What's the craich with the Glazers? How much have they taken out of the club, is it documented?

If Man U are still towards the top end of the spending table then surely the Glazers can't be to blame for all of this?
On the Glazers….
https://youtu.be/_JYVRSxTz0A?si=SpXFbZAORmaYtu78

[Ray_]

Took great delight when they were pish poor as Liverpool dominated, taking great delight once again in seeing them pish poor 😀

Much in the same way Liverpool was pish-poor in the Ferguson era!

Except, neither of those statements is true.

When Liverpool dominated, up to and including Ron Atkinson's team, Utd had good teams that played good football.

It was much the same with Liverpool after KD left.

Because neither team could match their rival, in their heyday, it didn't make them anywhere near as bad as you're suggesting.

Balance that to the post-Fergie era, despite some trophy success, much of the time Utd have been miles off it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Much in the same way Liverpool was pish-poor in the Ferguson era!

Except, neither of those statements is true.

When Liverpool dominated, up to and including Ron Atkinson's team, Utd had good teams that played good football.

It was much the same with Liverpool after KD left.

Because neither team could match their rival, in their heyday, it didn't make them anywhere near as bad as you're suggesting.

Balance that to the post-Fergie era, despite some trophy success, much of the time Utd have been miles off it.

It's one of the strange quirks of English football that it's two biggest and most successful clubs haven't really been direct rivals for honours since the mid 60s under Shankly and Busby. I can only remember teh very odd season when they've both competed for the title at the same time.

They're like yin and yang. When one falls the other rises and vice versa

[Ray_]

It's one of the strange quirks of English football that it's two biggest and most successful clubs haven't really been direct contenders for honours since the mid 60s under Shankly and Busby. I can only remember teh very odd season when they've both competed for the title at the same time.

They're like yin and yang. When one falls the other rises and vice versa

Yeah, Shankly brought a second-division club to the top division, in the early sixties and won the title in their second season there and set the foundations for their fantastic success in the 70's and 80's. So they weren't in the ballpark during Matt Busby's pre-Munich success.

Nobody dominated English football in the sixties, although Man Utd & Leeds won the league twice. Between 1970 [69/70] and 1975 [74/75], there were five different winners, before Derby's second success of that decade. It is only then that Liverpool dominated.

So both clubs had a golden period where the other couldn't touch them, although Man Utd, from the end of the war, until the end of the fifties, came first or second, nine times.

[Wembley67]

On the Glazers….
https://youtu.be/_JYVRSxTz0A?si=SpXFbZAORmaYtu78

Thanks for that.

It gives answers but at the same time the Glazers are there to make a profit e.g. a business. I don't recall the takeover criteria but the due diligence must have been poor??!

[He's here!]

Yeah, Shankly brought a second-division club to the top division, in the early sixties and won the title in their second season there and set the foundations for their fantastic success in the 70's and 80's. So they weren't in the ballpark during Matt Busby's pre-Munich success.

Nobody dominated English football in the sixties, although Man Utd & Leeds won the league twice. Between 1970 [69/70] and 1975 [74/75], there were five different winners, before Derby's second success of that decade. It is only then that Liverpool dominated.

So both clubs had a golden period where the other couldn't touch them, although Man Utd, from the end of the war, until the end of the fifties, came first or second, nine times.

A manager who I think sometimes gets overlooked during those times is Brian Clough, who won the title with two different clubs in the 70s as well as an astonishing two consecutive European Cups. I guess not being able to maintain that success despite the longevity of his managerial career makes him a little bit forgotten, although I think he also won 4 League Cups with Forest.

[Smartie]

Thanks for that.

It gives answers but at the same time the Glazers are there to make a profit e.g. a business. I don't recall the takeover criteria but the due diligence must have been poor??!

I don't think anyone ever begrudges owners making a few quid when the club appears to be well run, facilities are good and it's roughly where it should be on the pitch.

United have always generated a bucketload of cash. They "should" (hate that notion) be in a position where their team is competitive at the top of the league, their ground is amongst the best in the world and their owners still take a decent chunk away.

The Glazers were parasites, nothing else. They got fat (ter) off a club in decline, even if a decent few coins were chucked back into the transfer kitty to be spent badly.

I've got no love for Manchester United but I remember when I was growing up they always had a decent number of people who supported them as a second or first team, even though they hadn't won the league for yonks and Liverpool were dominant. I always thought it was an odd choice for glory hunting. Having said all of that, my nephew loves them - and he's 14, so is of an age to have been aware more of Hibs winning Scottish cups than Man Utd winning league championships.

[Ray_]

A manager who I think sometimes gets overlooked during those times is Brian Clough, who won the title with two different clubs in the 70s as well as an astonishing two consecutive European Cups. I guess not being able to maintain that success despite the longevity of his managerial career makes him a little bit forgotten, although I think he also won 4 League Cups with Forest.

He was superb, another who took lower league Derby, to a league title and then did the same for Forest and 2 European Cups, quite sensational.

Peter Taylor was very significant as well, Cloughie was never as successful when he wasn't there.

[Paul1642]

IMO their big time attitude was their own downfall by playing a part in Mourinho being sacked which is where it went drastically downhill from then onwards.

At Man United Mourinho had 58.3% win ratio over 144 games which was drastically better than his predecessor and successors and amazingly only 1.3% worse than Fergie’s.

He won the Europa League, two domestic trophies and a second place finish. They’d be happy with that now.

Should have stuck with him and got rid of Pogma.

[Donegal Hibby]

Thanks for that.

It gives answers but at the same time the Glazers are there to make a profit e.g. a business. I don't recall the takeover criteria but the due diligence must have been poor??!

It must have been in fairness. What I remember about it was that the Utd fans were angry about it at the time which eventually lead to FC UTD being founded. I suppose from a business point of view it could be said it was shrewd business in buying a club that size with money they borrowed and then lumbering the football club with the debt ….

https://youtu.be/Q6sYJ_FYSoo?si=N1bvssnSIPQrf9nK

When you think about the debt they were put into by the Glazers and the total lack of investment by them over the years when you see this it really does show how bad the Glazers have been as Owners there ….

https://youtu.be/E3tJzSThKrc?si=G_mfnneS3dsngijA

[NC1875]

The decline of Man Utd is a joy to watch.

From a Liverpool fan :greengrin

Agree.

Spending £90 million apiece on guys like Harry Maguire and Antony. They’ve signed some absolute crap for fortunes over the last few years.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Thanks for that.

It gives answers but at the same time the Glazers are there to make a profit e.g. a business. I don't recall the takeover criteria but the due diligence must have been poor??!

It was a hostile takeover that even utd's board at the time didn't want because of the debt aspect. It went through because the vast majority of the shares were in the hands of investors who didn't have the club's long term interests at heart and sold out as soon as they got a good offer. Mainly the Irish duo John Magnier and JP McManus.

As a PLC United were always vulnerable to such a thing happening, but the irony is that if United supporters had mobilised in 1991 when the club first went public and started collectively buying shares en masse when the club was a lot cheaper then they may well have acquired a big enough stake to block it. As it was, their supporters group Shareholders United (now MUST) started too late and the club was by then too big and too expensive for them to get any more than a token shareholding.

On a smaller scale, in my opinion, Hibs fans made the same mistake and I will always regret the fact that HSL weren't given more support when the shares were on the table.

[BSEJVT]

They spent £50m on Fred. Thats all you need to know.

Looks like an inspired signing when you consider the £86m on Anthony

[Stevie Reid]

I quite liked what Utd tried to do with Moyes as Fergie’s successor, but I think they suffered from not making the more obvious Jose Mourinho appointment at that time.

At that point both parties still had their successful aura, and given that a certain amount of fear factor was going to dissipate purely from Ferguson leaving, they really needed a huge character - and successful one in terms of trophies and titles - to come in and take over.

Moyes had done an amazing job at Everton, but I don’t think he was the right man. I think he quickly lost a couple of home games and then everyone seemed to fancy playing them (I think Mourinho still had that outrageous home record at that point), and that was the start of the decline.

I know that Utd’s ethos had always been against the kind of hired gun appointment that Mourinho always was for his clubs, but they’ve ultimately ended up going through a manager every couple of years anyway.

By the time Mourinho did arrive, both his and Utd’s stock had fallen so far (and JM was just such a miserable ******* by that point) that it wasn’t the appointment it could have been a few years earlier.

Anyway, back to now. I read an interesting post somewhere a couple of months ago that said that Ten Hag panicked after losing his first two games and getting pumped at Brentford, and sacrificed his preferred way of playing for results.

I don’t know enough about him or his style to know if that’s true, but I do know that the criticism levelled at him in the end was that no one knew what they were trying to do, with no identity or pattern to their play.

In that context, I can understand why Amorim wants to stick to his principles. This may be his only shot at a job this size, and he clearly believes in himself and his ability.

However, I’ve posted on here before about many managers, - including the likes of Kompany and Montgomery - about how fine a line it is between being principled and pigheaded, and how quickly being brave can become being stupid. Postecoglu in that territory now as well.

I do think Amorim has something about him, and he does appear to be a quite likeable guy. He’s clearly not afraid of taking a few risks and Utd probably need someone to take pretty drastic action - but there’s only so far they’ll be allowed to fall in the process.

The main thing I’ve noticed thus far from seeing their games at OT is that they seem to manage to make the big pitch a massive hindrance to them, whilst simultaneously being a huge advantage to the opposition. Every team seems to love playing there, except them.

There’s still a good bit of this season to go, and if they continue to be so easy to play against, their board’s resolve may be seriously tested.

[Kato]

A manager who I think sometimes gets overlooked during those times is Brian Clough, who won the title with two different clubs in the 70s as well as an astonishing two consecutive European Cups. I guess not being able to maintain that success despite the longevity of his managerial career makes him a little bit forgotten, although I think he also won 4 League Cups with Forest.Clough is far from forgotten.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Baader]

A manager who I think sometimes gets overlooked during those times is Brian Clough, who won the title with two different clubs in the 70s as well as an astonishing two consecutive European Cups. I guess not being able to maintain that success despite the longevity of his managerial career makes him a little bit forgotten, although I think he also won 4 League Cups with Forest.

Cloughie isn't close to being forgotten or overlooked. There's statues, books, films, docs all about him. Even his failed time at Leeds spawned a best selling book and film.

Tony Barton, who won the European Cup with Villa only three months after taking over, is arguably forgotten outside Birmingham. Most folk seem to think Ron Saunders was manager when they won it.

[McD]

Yeah, Shankly brought a second-division club to the top division, in the early sixties and won the title in their second season there and set the foundations for their fantastic success in the 70's and 80's. So they weren't in the ballpark during Matt Busby's pre-Munich success.

Nobody dominated English football in the sixties, although Man Utd & Leeds won the league twice. Between 1970 [69/70] and 1975 [74/75], there were five different winners, before Derby's second success of that decade. It is only then that Liverpool dominated.

So both clubs had a golden period where the other couldn't touch them, although Man Utd, from the end of the war, until the end of the fifties, came first or second, nine times.

From 72/73 until 90/91, 19 seasons, Liverpool only once finished outside first or second (80/81).



It was a hostile takeover that even utd's board at the time didn't want because of the debt aspect. It went through because the vast majority of the shares were in the hands of investors who didn't have the club's long term interests at heart and sold out as soon as they got a good offer. Mainly the Irish duo John Magnier and JP McManus.

As a PLC United were always vulnerable to such a thing happening, but the irony is that if United supporters had mobilised in 1991 when the club first went public and started collectively buying shares en masse when the club was a lot cheaper then they may well have acquired a big enough stake to block it. As it was, their supporters group Shareholders United (now MUST) started too late and the club was by then too big and too expensive for them to get any more than a token shareholding.

On a smaller scale, in my opinion, Hibs fans made the same mistake and I will always regret the fact that HSL weren't given more support when the shares were on the table.


Those 2 were only involved because Fergie got into a pissing contest with them over the stud rights of the race horse Rock of Gibraltar, and lost. They bought into the club to mark his card

[McD]

Clough is far from forgotten.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk



He’s a legend. Took Derby to the European cup semis, arguably only beaten by bent refereeing, then won it twice back to back with Forest, neither of which were likely to do anything like that before or since him.

[Davy Mac]

I quite liked what Utd tried to do with Moyes as Fergie’s successor, but I think they suffered from not making the more obvious Jose Mourinho appointment at that time.

At that point both parties still had their successful aura, and given that a certain amount of fear factor was going to dissipate purely from Ferguson leaving, they really needed a huge character - and successful one in terms of trophies and titles - to come in and take over.

Moyes had done an amazing job at Everton, but I don’t think he was the right man. I think he quickly lost a couple of home games and then everyone seemed to fancy playing them (I think Mourinho still had that outrageous home record at that point), and that was the start of the decline.

I know that Utd’s ethos had always been against the kind of hired gun appointment that Mourinho always was for his clubs, but they’ve ultimately ended up going through a manager every couple of years anyway.

By the time Mourinho did arrive, both his and Utd’s stock had fallen so far (and JM was just such a miserable ******* by that point) that it wasn’t the appointment it could have been a few years earlier.

Anyway, back to now. I read an interesting post somewhere a couple of months ago that said that Ten Hag panicked after losing his first two games and getting pumped at Brentford, and sacrificed his preferred way of playing for results.

I don’t know enough about him or his style to know if that’s true, but I do know that the criticism levelled at him in the end was that no one knew what they were trying to do, with no identity or pattern to their play.

In that context, I can understand why Amorim wants to stick to his principles. This may be his only shot at a job this size, and he clearly believes in himself and his ability.

However, I’ve posted on here before about many managers, - including the likes of Kompany and Montgomery - about how fine a line it is between being principled and pigheaded, and how quickly being brave can become being stupid. Postecoglu in that territory now as well.

I do think Amorim has something about him, and he does appear to be a quite likeable guy. He’s clearly not afraid of taking a few risks and Utd probably need someone to take pretty drastic action - but there’s only so far they’ll be allowed to fall in the process.

The main thing I’ve noticed thus far from seeing their games at OT is that they seem to manage to make the big pitch a massive hindrance to them, whilst simultaneously being a huge advantage to the opposition. Every team seems to love playing there, except them.

There’s still a good bit of this season to go, and if they continue to be so easy to play against, their board’s resolve may be seriously tested.

I think it's well known that Fergie met Guardiola in New York but he turned Man Utd down.

By the way, love the avatar as Electronic are legendary in my household.

[Ray_]

From 72/73 until 90/91, 19 seasons, Liverpool only once finished outside first or second (80/81).



I remember that well, three teams going for the title in the final game of the season. I was at Highbury, where Villa lost 2-0 to Arsenal. Although Villa lost, results elsewhere saw them win the title and Arsenal also had cause to celebrate as their win secured a European spot.

[basehibby]

I find it funny people still talk about Man Utd like it's some sort of surprise when they get beat. They have largely been crap since Fergie retired and how long ago was that now? Are we still going to get the coverage on it after every single defeat? Neville, Carragher and Keane rehashing the same points every week.

It's getting boring. It's been years and they are getting worse if anything - it's no longer a surprise or a shock result when Brighton rock up to Old Trafford and win comfortably.

Shows the difference a good culture and a great managers make at any football club. Man Utd have oodles of cash at their disposal but have struggled to replace Fergie and have drifted from the rigorous culture of excellence he imposed there.
By contrast you have the likes of Bournmouth, Forest and Brighton out-performong them now by doing that culture-management mix better on a fraction of the budget.
You could say we see similar on a different scale regularly here in Scotland with larger clubs (Hibs as often as not) being bested in the league by clubs with a fraction of their turnover.

[Scouse Hibee]

Much in the same way Liverpool was pish-poor in the Ferguson era!

Except, neither of those statements is true.

When Liverpool dominated, up to and including Ron Atkinson's team, Utd had good teams that played good football.

It was much the same with Liverpool after KD left.

Because neither team could match their rival, in their heyday, it didn't make them anywhere near as bad as you're suggesting.

Balance that to the post-Fergie era, despite some trophy success, much of the time Utd have been miles off it.

They were pish poor compared to Liverpool, that was good enough for me 👍

[Stevie Reid]

I think it's well known that Fergie met Guardiola in New York but he turned Man Utd down.

By the way, love the avatar as Electronic are legendary in my household.

Ha, forget I have that as only ever on the mobile version of the site these days - only avatar I’ve had on this site!

Hold them in equally high esteem.

[CyberSauzee]

Cloughie isn't close to being forgotten or overlooked. There's statues, books, films, docs all about him. Even his failed time at Leeds spawned a best selling book and film.

Tony Barton, who won the European Cup with Villa only three months after taking over, is arguably forgotten outside Birmingham. Most folk seem to think Ron Saunders was manager when they won it.

Great shout re Tony Barton, forgot about him being their manager.

Talking of films, I Believe in Miracles is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen about football. Chronicles Forest's climb into the 1st Division, winning it, then their European triumphs.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5098836/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

The follow up book is also worth a read as there's some brilliant stories in it that never made the film.

[joe breezy]

Brighton and Bournemouth said as if it’s some kind of diss made me dismiss the whole post in my mind


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

Great shout re Tony Barton, forgot about him being their manager.

Talking of films, I Believe in Miracles is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen about football. Chronicles Forest's climb into the 1st Division, winning it, then their European triumphs.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5098836/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

The follow up book is also worth a read as there's some brilliant stories in it that never made the film.Got my copy of the DVD from Tony Woodcock. Signed an' all.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

From 72/73 until 90/91, 19 seasons, Liverpool only once finished outside first or second (80/81).





Those 2 were only involved because Fergie got into a pissing contest with them over the stud rights of the race horse Rock of Gibraltar, and lost. They bought into the club to mark his card

The irony is that Rock of Gibraltar was a relative flop as a stallion. His first asking price was €65000 in 2002, about €95000 today. That was decreased almost immediately and by his last season at stud he was €5000 a pop.

Totally irrelevant really but quite amusing/interesting that the whole fate of Manchester United was partially impacted by an argument over money that ended up being small fry to all involved.

[J-C]

Amorim has certainly thrown the cat amongst the pigeons with his latest comments about the team, do you think he's already wanting out and trying to work his ticket.

[McD]

The irony is that Rock of Gibraltar was a relative flop as a stallion. His first asking price was €65000 in 2002, about €95000 today. That was decreased almost immediately and by his last season at stud he was €5000 a pop.

Totally irrelevant really but quite amusing/interesting that the whole fate of Manchester United was partially impacted by an argument over money that ended up being small fry to all involved.


I didn’t know that about the stud fees, but I totally agree with your last point, a multibillion pound organisation, worldwide reputation and brand awareness, the most successful team of the last 30 years in England (gritted teeth), now in the relative doldrums in part because of some big egos having a spat of something ultimately quite trivial

[K-Zazu]

Seems like Rashford gets linked with a new club everyday, AC Milan, Dortmund and now Barcelona.. could it be that nobody is interested in paying about £300k wages a week for him?

[ian cruise]

Clough is far from forgotten.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Not to people from UK and of a certain age (I put myself in that category at 45), but if you asked football fans in their teens and potentially those in their twenties there's a good chance they don't know of Clough or Derby success. With Forest on the rise it helps as people are talking about the team and reminiscing over his tenure and successes.

[Iain G]

Seems like Rashford gets linked with a new club everyday, AC Milan, Dortmund and now Barcelona.. could it be that nobody is interested in paying about £300k wages a week for him?

There is something seriously awry with Rashford. Was doing such positive wonderful things and had a blistering season...and then, can't make the squad and nobody really fancies him...some really weird narrative here

[Trinity Hibee]

There is something seriously awry with Rashford. Was doing such positive wonderful things and had a blistering season...and then, can't make the squad and nobody really fancies him...some really weird narrative here

Quite easy to see why he’s not in the team. He doesn’t look interested most of the time, lost confidence. Whatever it is, he’s getting paid huge sums with zero output. He’s not the only one of course

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Got a feeling that they will still give The Rangers a bit of a pumping.

[JimBHibees]

Quite easy to see why he’s not in the team. He doesn’t look interested most of the time, lost confidence. Whatever it is, he’s getting paid huge sums with zero output. He’s not the only one of course

Sounds like he has a stinking attitude not sure who is advising him however in games he is frequently a liability re how lazy he appears. When guys like Scholes are saying he should leave you have to assume there is a genuine frustration with his contribution to the club

[JeMeSouviens]

Great shout re Tony Barton, forgot about him being their manager.

Talking of films, I Believe in Miracles is one of the best documentaries I've ever seen about football. Chronicles Forest's climb into the 1st Division, winning it, then their European triumphs.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt5098836/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

The follow up book is also worth a read as there's some brilliant stories in it that never made the film.

This is also a great read re Cloughie - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2562312.Provided_You_Don_t_Kiss_Me

[blackpoolhibs]

My fear is Man U are that bad these days, the huns could give them a game tonight.:rolleyes:

[Chorley Hibee]

My fear is Man U are that bad these days, the huns could give them a game tonight.:rolleyes:

The thought had crossed my mind too.

[HoboHarry]

My fear is Man U are that bad these days, the huns could give them a game tonight.:rolleyes:
Ferkin doom merchant.