Welsh EFL Clubs in Europe [Archive] - hibs.net Messageboard

Since452

13-01-2025, 11:56 AM

Saw this Tweet earlier. Bit of a piss take if true.

Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport will soon be competing for qualification in European football.

They’ve agreed to enter the Welsh League Cup where the winner would qualify for the Europa Conference League.

Scorrie

13-01-2025, 11:59 AM

I recall winners of the Welsh Cup used to compete in the old Cup Winners Cup. Back on topic, shouldn’t the winners of the Scottish League also qualify for Europe again like we did in 1991

SJNB Hibby

13-01-2025, 11:59 AM

Since452

13-01-2025, 12:01 PM

Don't see anything wrong with that. It's only the one competition, Wales aren't gaining anything overall.

They choose to play in the English League. Only wanting to play in the Welsh cup as it's a pathway to Europe. I feel for the Welsh teams that play in the Welsh league

Bristolhibby

13-01-2025, 12:05 PM

Don't see anything wrong with that. It's only the one competition, Wales aren't gaining anything overall.

They get four bites of cherry.

English League
English Cup
English League Cup

Now they get the extra shot through the Welsh League Cup.

What are they? Welsh or English. If they are Welsh then play in the Welsh Leagues.

J

JohnM1875

13-01-2025, 12:06 PM

Keith_M

13-01-2025, 12:11 PM

They get four bites of cherry.

English League
English Cup
English League Cup

Now they get the extra shot through the Welsh League Cup.

What are they? Welsh or English. If they are Welsh then play in the Welsh Leagues.

J

Totally agree with this.

They're only entering this competition to get into Europe by the back door, at the expense of clubs that actually play in the Welsh League.

green day

13-01-2025, 12:13 PM

They get four bites of cherry.

English League
English Cup
English League Cup

Now they get the extra shot through the Welsh League Cup.

What are they? Welsh or English. If they are Welsh then play in the Welsh Leagues.

J

Welsh when they are playing rugby and singing in their own language

English when they play cricket and football.............oh, unless they can gain a place via the Welsh Cup, then they are Welsh again.........then they will be English again in the next League game.

Its basically just an English county - until and unless it suits them otherwise.

And this ruling is bloody farcical.

Actually, edit that - their proposal is that they will forfeit the right to qualify via any other way than the new Welsh League Cup

Mind you, its still a bit of a joke - its basically a 1 in 4 chance of getting into Europe !!

Since452

13-01-2025, 12:14 PM

You'd imagine Cardiff or Swansea will be in Europe every season in that case. Absolute farce and a kick in the balls to the smaller Welsh teams who actually play in Wales. Amazed it's happening.

blackpoolhibs

13-01-2025, 12:18 PM

You'd imagine Cardiff or Swansea will be in Europe every season in that case. Absolute farce and a kick in the balls to the smaller Welsh teams who actually play in Wales. Amazed it's happening.
:agree:

They get the riches of playing in the English game, but want more by squashing those clubs that play in Wales.

I can understand why, but it does seem wrong.

greenlex

13-01-2025, 12:26 PM

Paulie Walnuts

13-01-2025, 12:29 PM

That is an absolute farce.

Wilson

13-01-2025, 12:31 PM

We gave Owain Tudor-Jones a game. Can we play?

wookie70

13-01-2025, 12:32 PM

Smaller clubs will probably get a bigger payday playing Cardiff or Swansea in the cup than being dragged to some far flung European joint. Reckon most won’t give a toss. If they did surely they would vote against it.

That is the way I am seeing it. It may end up with a win win for all Welsh teams. Playing in Europe in the early rounds isn't necessarily profitable and the Welsh League Cup will now be a much better competition.

CapitalGreen

13-01-2025, 12:36 PM

Totally agree with this.

They're only entering this competition to get into Europe by the back door, at the expense of clubs that actually play in the Welsh League.

The Welsh Premier League clubs have voted unanimously in favour of them joining the Welsh League Cup.

CapitalGreen

13-01-2025, 12:38 PM

They get four bites of cherry.

English League
English Cup
English League Cup

Now they get the extra shot through the Welsh League Cup.

What are they? Welsh or English. If they are Welsh then play in the Welsh Leagues.

J

Nope, not 4 bites at the cherry. By participating in the Welsh League Cup they would sacrifice their ability to qualify for Europe as an English FA representative. So instead of the 3 chances to qualify they currently have, this will be reduced to 1 bite of the cherry.

cabbageandribs1875

13-01-2025, 12:50 PM

so play what two games for Cardiff and Swansea and one of them will be in the Europa conference league, pfftt awrite for some :)

Oscar T Grouch

13-01-2025, 01:34 PM

The Welsh Premier League clubs have voted unanimously in favour of them joining the Welsh League Cup.

You'd imagine they voted that way to help their coefficient in Europe, with the bigger clubs gaining entry to the UEFA Conference League they're more likely to progress further than TNS, Penybont, Connah's Quay etc and should end up with more spots for their league. It is a gamble but one they obviously see as worth it. It will take a few years to pay off too with the 5 year cycle of coefficient points

Cabbage-Patch

13-01-2025, 01:35 PM

O'Rourke3

13-01-2025, 01:55 PM

The infirm will see this a a way to get themselves playing in Engerland. Unless they need Aberdeen to swing the vote, the other Scottish clubs should veto the route!

green day

13-01-2025, 02:07 PM

Nope, not 4 bites at the cherry. By participating in the Welsh League Cup they would sacrifice their ability to qualify for Europe as an English FA representative. So instead of the 3 chances to qualify they currently have, this will be reduced to 1 bite of the cherry.

Its a pretty big bite at the cherry though, and none of these clubs were ever going to qualify via the leagues or cups.

Its like saying Hibs and Hearts were asked to play a few semi pro teams for the right to qualify for Europe and forfeit the right to play in the champions league !

Its a 1 in 2 chance for Cardiff and Swansea

hereford-hibby

13-01-2025, 02:25 PM

Remember Hereford winning the Welsh cup back in the 90's. Did not qualify for Europe as they were an English team playing their football in England.

CapitalGreen

13-01-2025, 02:55 PM

Its a pretty big bite at the cherry though, and none of these clubs were ever going to qualify via the leagues or cups.

Its like saying Hibs and Hearts were asked to play a few semi pro teams for the right to qualify for Europe and forfeit the right to play in the champions league !

Its a 1 in 2 chance for Cardiff and Swansea

And we’d jump at the chance if offered such an opportunity.

green day

13-01-2025, 02:57 PM

And we’d jump at the chance if offered such an opportunity.

I think you are missing the point.

Deliberately, if I may say so......

SHODAN

13-01-2025, 03:00 PM

Having their cake and eating it.

They should be forced into the Welsh league if they want to game the system. Farce that they're even in the EFL in the first place.

green day

13-01-2025, 03:22 PM

Having their cake and eating it.

They should be forced into the Welsh league if they want to game the system. Farce that they're even in the EFL in the first place.

They have never actually played in the Welsh system - which makes them asking to play in the Welsh League Cup even more farcical.

Billy Whizz

13-01-2025, 03:33 PM

I thought there were no places in Europe for League Cup winners, just their main cup competition

Renfrew_Hibby

13-01-2025, 03:44 PM

I thought there were no places in Europe for League Cup winners, just their main cup competition

League cup certainly gets you a place in Europe down south although its usually City, United Liverpool ect winning it so the place goes to a league spot.
Mind when Birmingham won it and got relegated in the same season. The fixture pile up they had due to all the extra championship games they had to move to accommodate euro matches was incredible.
Swansea also got European football when they won it around the same time 2010ish.

Not many countries have a League cup but France does and again I think that offers a route into Europe just like in England.

green day

13-01-2025, 03:44 PM

I thought there were no places in Europe for League Cup winners, just their main cup competition

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c70k3rjn8p0o

Billy Whizz

13-01-2025, 03:52 PM

League cup certainly gets you a place in Europe down south although its usually City, United Liverpool ect winning it so the place goes to a league spot.
Mind when Birmingham won it and got relegated in the same season. The fixture pile up they had due to all the extra championship games they had to move to accommodate euro matches was incredible.
Swansea also got European football when they won it around the same time 2010ish.

Not many countries have a League cup but France does and again I think that offers a route into Europe just like in England.

Maybe just a Scottish rule

SteveHFC

13-01-2025, 04:00 PM

Smartie

13-01-2025, 04:14 PM

This may sound daft but do you not need need to play in the league to play in the league cup?

Does anything like this happen anywhere else?

Paulie Walnuts

13-01-2025, 05:00 PM

Having their cake and eating it.

They should be forced into the Welsh league if they want to game the system. Farce that they're even in the EFL in the first place.

At the very least they should be forced to withdraw from the English League Cup. Although I’d generally agree with your point that if they want in the Welsh cups they should have to apply to be in the Welsh league.

Smartie

13-01-2025, 05:50 PM

At the very least they should be forced to withdraw from the English League Cup. Although I’d generally agree with your point that if they want in the Welsh cups they should have to apply to be in the Welsh league.

Yeah, I'd have thought resigning from the English League Cup (probably no great hardship for them) might be a reasonable compromise.

Glory Lurker

13-01-2025, 07:14 PM

Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElheney seem thoroughly sound blokes, but I can't help but find the Wrexham thing a bit off. It'd be quite fun to put them out.

We'd maybe even get in the telly programme. All it would take would be for me to be in a crowd shot and Hollywood would be scrambling to sign me up.

The Spaceman

13-01-2025, 08:04 PM

SPFL teams may as well try and compete in the Maltese League Cup or Gibraltar League Cup in that case? Absolute joke if this is allowed - should only be permitted to be able to fly under one association/country. Otherwise they just fill up valuable spaces whilst being a completely shan footballing country.

PHeffernan

13-01-2025, 08:54 PM

As ever the driver for this is money with the uber poor Welsh FA coming up with it as a way to massively improve revenue streams from their League Cup competition and from UEFA by driving up their coefficient and thereby solidarity payments to the Welsh FA to share with their leagues clubs.
For the professional clubs it is a backdoor into European competition and the money and prestige that offers.

Since452

13-01-2025, 09:14 PM

Imagine we lost out on a player to Wrexham because they got in to Europe via the back door of the Welsh League cup.

PHeffernan

13-01-2025, 09:26 PM

I recall winners of the Welsh Cup used to compete in the old Cup Winners Cup. Back on topic, shouldn’t the winners of the Scottish League also qualify for Europe again like we did in 1991

Like you I remember Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport competing in the European Cup Winners Cup.
The last Welsh Cup won by that lot was 1995. UEFA told them to bolt after that.

The Welsh Cup was always a strange one and English clubs close to Wales used to be allowed to enter it but couldn't qualify for Europe.
It was won on 21 occasions by teams based outside Wales with Shrewsbury Town the English team to have won it most, 6 times. The last English winner was Hereford in 1990.

NAE NOOKIE

14-01-2025, 12:11 AM

Having your cake and eating it, simple as that.

green day

14-01-2025, 07:38 AM

American owner of Swansea City on R4 just now, hes stating that its just about Wales helping Welsh clubs, there are no negatives and it doesnt harm anyone........

Apparently its all about giving money to the grassroots of Welsh fitba - aye right.

He also stated that UEFA are right behind it.

Cool, so in summary, lets do a backdoor route into pretty much guaranteed Euro fitba for a couple of clubs and unsurprisingly this might just make my club worth a few more quid.

The wifey on R4 didnt even challenge anything he said.

Utterly staggering "journalism"

DH1875

14-01-2025, 07:42 AM

Is it not the SFA or the club's that voted to scrap the European spot the League cup. Nothing to do with UEFA so theoretically the League cup could go back to having a European spot if we wanted to.

Centre Hawf

14-01-2025, 07:54 AM

I think those raging on behalf of the Welsh teams should remember that if Cardiff/Swansea were to make it to the likes of the groups it would likely yield more income in solidarity payments for the Welsh league which I'm sure is a lot more helpful than getting punted out first qualifying round most of the time.

It's a bit cheeky but they still have at least 2 opportunities in their league to qualify outside of this format.

nonshinyfinish

14-01-2025, 08:18 AM

Is it not the SFA or the club's that voted to scrap the European spot the League cup. Nothing to do with UEFA so theoretically the League cup could go back to having a European spot if we wanted to.

That's how I understand it – UEFA put some limitations on how places can be distributed, but outwith those limitations it's up to that country's football authorities to decide.

E.g. I'm pretty sure it's a requirement that the main cup competition gives a European place, and it has to be the 'good' Europa League/Conference League place (i.e., equivalent to third place in our case). However we could give a different place to the League Cup winner if we wanted to.

Haymaker

14-01-2025, 02:24 PM

I read somewhere that they have given up the option of European football through the English cups/leagues should they win one. Not sure if that's confirmed though.

Trinity Hibee

14-01-2025, 02:43 PM

I read somewhere that they have given up the option of European football through the English cups/leagues should they win one. Not sure if that's confirmed though.

Given up a place of European football they would have never got anyway via the English route. Would be like Hibs giving up their champions league place in Scotland to play in an Irish competition and take their CL place

As someone else has said above, a club should play under one association. Can’t understand how this is being allowed to happen despite the clubs in Wales agreeing to it.

Chorley Hibee

14-01-2025, 02:45 PM

I read somewhere that they have given up the option of European football through the English cups/leagues should they win one. Not sure if that's confirmed though.

It's like me giving up the option of a relationship with Ana de Armas.

Since452

14-01-2025, 03:56 PM

I read somewhere that they have given up the option of European football through the English cups/leagues should they win one. Not sure if that's confirmed though.

That's really noble of them. Must have been a tough call swapping playing Man City and Liverpool for a stab at Europe for TNS and Craggy Island

EGL2000

14-01-2025, 04:03 PM

Happens with Vaduz as well. Who play in Swiss league but get in every year through liechtenstein cup.

Since452

14-01-2025, 07:22 PM

Happens with Vaduz as well. Who play in Swiss league but get in every year through liechtenstein cup.

Just had a wee look. They recently won the Liechtenstein cup QF 10-0. The round before that they won 13-0. Obviously finding it tough.

nonshinyfinish

15-01-2025, 06:36 AM

That's really noble of them. Must have been a tough call swapping playing Man City and Liverpool for a stab at Europe for TNS and Craggy Island

Surely Craggy Island being allowed to play in a Welsh competition is even more controversial?

lyonhibs

15-01-2025, 12:26 PM

Yeah, I'd have thought resigning from the English League Cup (probably no great hardship for them) might be a reasonable compromise.

They have effectively done so. They can no longer qualify for Europe via any English competition.

MKHIBEE

15-01-2025, 12:33 PM

It's like me giving up the option of a relationship with Ana de Armas.

What league do they play in?

Chorley Hibee

15-01-2025, 12:34 PM

What league do they play in?

Way out of mine. 😝

Since452

15-01-2025, 02:25 PM

Surely Craggy Island being allowed to play in a Welsh competition is even more controversial?

Apparently Father Jack has a Welsh grandpa 😉

Since452

15-01-2025, 02:38 PM

Way out of mine. 😝

And mine. Jeezy peeps.

EGL2000

15-01-2025, 03:16 PM

Just had a wee look. They recently won the Liechtenstein cup QF 10-0. The round before that they won 13-0. Obviously finding it tough.

Won it every year since 1998 apart from 1! Having won it 50 times in total since 1945!

green day

15-01-2025, 10:25 PM

FAW pleading poverty, but can offer Merthyr £6m to join Cymru Premier - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy0p9x3k58zo

PHeffernan

15-01-2025, 10:39 PM

FAW pleading poverty, but can offer Merthyr £6m to join Cymru Premier - https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/cy0p9x3k58zo

Reading that, the offer from FAW is more like 3.95 million quid.
Still a lot of dosh but not 6 million.

green day

17-01-2025, 10:31 PM

Potentially being chucked out by the FA

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/jan/17/blow-for-wrexham-as-fa-to-block-plan-for-efl-clubs-in-new-welsh-league-cup

JohnM1875

18-01-2025, 11:33 AM

Potentially being chucked out by the FA

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/jan/17/blow-for-wrexham-as-fa-to-block-plan-for-efl-clubs-in-new-welsh-league-cup

Good. To be fair I didn't even think about the possible advantage it would give the Welsh teams financially if they did qualify. Of course the English FA will reject that.