Disecting the defence

[RIP]

Listening to the blogs on the excellent Hibs Observer and Longangers sites, many of their observations on our defending are bang on.

In SDG's defence, it's fantastic that David Gray was selected for SPL Manager of the Month, the man who has pulled the team up by the bootstraps and got us off the bottom of the table. Matches now are exciting and pleasurable. Yersterday was memorable especially hearing the Cream Buns greetin' after the game :na na:

Wouldn't it be good if SDG could do a Q&A on a Hibs blog and answer questions from a supporters' panel on our defensive tactics and performance? Are any of you current or former defenders or coaches who could add other insightful questions, observations or replies to the below list?

Sample Questions, more welcome

When we push three defenders e.g. Cadden1, Cadden2 and Miller into the penalty box, why do you select Bushiri as a solitary 'last man' against a speedy striker? Shouldn't there be a pair or at least a covering defender?
Why haven't you replaced the 'ball-watching' from our defence with 'man-watching' in our own box? Freeze frame the Ranjurs chances yesterday and almost every Hibs player appears hypnotized by the man with the ball. Been the same for years since Daz retired.
Do you get angry watching Iredale jog back at their first goal, make a half-arsed tackle on Ignamane (Triantis's wasn't much better) and then lazily fail to track his man into the box?
Why when other teams (and MarvE) can stop crosses by getting tight, do you allow our defenders to stand off and lazily throw a leg as a gesture?
Why when we try and clear, do you not instruct the defence to clear 'away' from the goal, instead of (like C Cadden yesrday) play the ball back into the centre?
Why do so many of our players stand off instead of putting a foot in? Is that an instruction, or are they just being not aggressive enough?


If SDG were to do a Q&A what additional questions would you like answers to? Or what answers do you think he would give to the above?

[Jones28]

Rocky is the fastest CB we've got, in fact if there's a faster, stronger CB we've ever had I'd like to know. It makes sense for him to be the covering player.

[Springbank]

Rocky is the fastest CB we've got, in fact if there's a faster, stronger CB we've ever had I'd like to know. It makes sense for him to be the covering player.

His decision making does not make him a natural fit for the role though

[Jones28]

His decision making does not make him a natural fit for the role though

Based on yesterdays game I'd agree, he also has played the same role in what, 8 other games this season and made no mistakes of that kind, he had a bad day at the office yesterday with those chances.

[Donegal Hibby]

Thought this was an interesting article….

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/david-gray-singles-out-hibs-pair-including-surprise-leader/

[CapitalGreen]

Based on yesterdays game I'd agree, he also has played the same role in what, 8 other games this season and made no mistakes of that kind, he had a bad day at the office yesterday with those chances.

He made a similar error in one of our recent home games (Ross County I think) but got away with it.

[ancient hibee]

As he had two successful forays into the opposition box maybe it hides the fact that when he’s unsuccessful he’s the fastest at getting back.:greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Listening to the blogs on the excellent Hibs Observer and Longangers sites, many of their observations on our defending are bang on.

In SDG's defence, it's fantastic that David Gray was selected for SPL Manager of the Month, the man who has pulled the team up by the bootstraps and got us off the bottom of the table. Matches now are exciting and pleasurable. Yersterday was memorable especially hearing the Cream Buns greetin' after the game :na na:

Wouldn't it be good if SDG could do a Q&A on a Hibs blog and answer questions from a supporters' panel on our defensive tactics and performance? Are any of you current or former defenders or coaches who could add other insightful questions, observations or replies to the below list?

Sample Questions, more welcome

When we push three defenders e.g. Cadden1, Cadden2 and Miller into the penalty box, why do you select Bushiri as a solitary 'last man' against a speedy striker? Shouldn't there be a pair or at least a covering defender?
Why haven't you replaced the 'ball-watching' from our defence with 'man-watching' in our own box? Freeze frame the Ranjurs chances yesterday and almost every Hibs player appears hypnotized by the man with the ball. Been the same for years since Daz retired.
Do you get angry watching Iredale jog back at their first goal, make a half-arsed tackle on Ignamane (Triantis's wasn't much better) and then lazily fail to track his man into the box?
Why when other teams (and MarvE) can stop crosses by getting tight, do you allow our defenders to stand off and lazily throw a leg as a gesture?
Why when we try and clear, do you not instruct the defence to clear 'away' from the goal, instead of (like C Cadden yesrday) play the ball back into the centre?
Why do so many of our players stand off instead of putting a foot in? Is that an instruction, or are they just being not aggressive enough?


If SDG were to do a Q&A what additional questions would you like answers to? Or what answers do you think he would give to the above?

I think some of that wording is a bit inflammatory and if Gray had those questions put to him he might think theres a load of armchair fans thinking we can diagnose problems better than professional coaches can. No offence and i think its good to ask probing questions, but there needs to be an understanding that 95% goals contain an element of a defensive mistake somewhere.

Look at the three goals we scored yesterday. From a Rangers point of view (the hunperspective) WTF was King, a huge beast of a man, doing jumping straight up in the air by 3 cms and then collapsing in a heap while Rocky scores? What is Bajrami (?)(#14) doing not bothering his erse matching Boyles run from Rockys knock down for the 1st? And WTF is Yilmaz doing getting wrong side of not particularly fast Campbell and then hauling him down for a blatant pen?! Can you feel the hun rage? Pleasing.

The cup final goals we scored in 2016 also could all also be seen as being a result of hun mistakes. But thats the reality of seeing the goals from the perspective of the conceding team; its very tempting to think of every goal as a ‘gift’ while underplaying the usually great attacking play that caused it. I actually think our defence isnt as catastrophic as is being made out.

[Jack]

Our defence is pretty basic for a club less well off than we're made out to be.

Each player is pretty decent on their day, good enough for Hibs when they're at their best.

The issue is they don't or can't play at their best (that's not the same as not trying their best) consistently through a string of games or even a single game ... and each of them has a brain fart in their locker that happens all too often.

At Ron Gordon's first AGM he sold a vision of million pound players all over the park.

Million pound players are pretty thin on the ground at Hibs. None are defenders.

[PHeffernan]

Thought this was an interesting article….

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/david-gray-singles-out-hibs-pair-including-surprise-leader/

There is nothing interesting in that acticle.
It's 100% fluff.

[PHeffernan]

Our defence is pretty basic for a club less well off than we're made out to be.

Each player is pretty decent on their day, good enough for Hibs when they're at their best.

The issue is they don't or can't play at their best (that's not the same as not trying their best) consistently through a string of games or even a single game ... and each of them has a brain fart in their locker that happens all too often.

At Ron Gordon's first AGM he sold a vision of million pound players all over the park.

Million pound players are pretty thin on the ground at Hibs. None are defenders.

Any million pound players found at Easter Road are dressed up for market, marked injured and sold ... or returned to the club we have loaned them from.

18 months since we sold Nisbet.
Who can we sell after Youan?
Afraid the larder is empty Mr Gordioni

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2_snSkpULQ

[Donegal Hibby]

There is nothing interesting in that acticle.
It's 100% fluff.

Fair enough though personally I find most of Gray's comments interesting.

[superfurryhibby]

As if Gray is going to give the time of day to questions like that

[marinello59]

Listening to the blogs on the excellent Hibs Observer and Longangers sites, many of their observations on our defending are bang on.

In SDG's defence, it's fantastic that David Gray was selected for SPL Manager of the Month, the man who has pulled the team up by the bootstraps and got us off the bottom of the table. Matches now are exciting and pleasurable. Yersterday was memorable especially hearing the Cream Buns greetin' after the game :na na:

Wouldn't it be good if SDG could do a Q&A on a Hibs blog and answer questions from a supporters' panel on our defensive tactics and performance? Are any of you current or former defenders or coaches who could add other insightful questions, observations or replies to the below list?

Sample Questions, more welcome

When we push three defenders e.g. Cadden1, Cadden2 and Miller into the penalty box, why do you select Bushiri as a solitary 'last man' against a speedy striker? Shouldn't there be a pair or at least a covering defender?
Why haven't you replaced the 'ball-watching' from our defence with 'man-watching' in our own box? Freeze frame the Ranjurs chances yesterday and almost every Hibs player appears hypnotized by the man with the ball. Been the same for years since Daz retired.
Do you get angry watching Iredale jog back at their first goal, make a half-arsed tackle on Ignamane (Triantis's wasn't much better) and then lazily fail to track his man into the box?
Why when other teams (and MarvE) can stop crosses by getting tight, do you allow our defenders to stand off and lazily throw a leg as a gesture?
Why when we try and clear, do you not instruct the defence to clear 'away' from the goal, instead of (like C Cadden yesrday) play the ball back into the centre?
Why do so many of our players stand off instead of putting a foot in? Is that an instruction, or are they just being not aggressive enough?


If SDG were to do a Q&A what additional questions would you like answers to? Or what answers do you think he would give to the above?

They're not questions. It's just negative criticism.

[PHeffernan]

Fair enough though personally I find most of Gray's comments interesting.

He didn't say anything.
Managers are trained to speak but say nothing in perfunctory media duties.
Boyle blah blah blah
Bushiri blah blah blah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-J5PsGHwtk

[matty_f]

Listening to the blogs on the excellent Hibs Observer and Longangers sites, many of their observations on our defending are bang on.

In SDG's defence, it's fantastic that David Gray was selected for SPL Manager of the Month, the man who has pulled the team up by the bootstraps and got us off the bottom of the table. Matches now are exciting and pleasurable. Yersterday was memorable especially hearing the Cream Buns greetin' after the game :na na:

Wouldn't it be good if SDG could do a Q&A on a Hibs blog and answer questions from a supporters' panel on our defensive tactics and performance? Are any of you current or former defenders or coaches who could add other insightful questions, observations or replies to the below list?

Sample Questions, more welcome

When we push three defenders e.g. Cadden1, Cadden2 and Miller into the penalty box, why do you select Bushiri as a solitary 'last man' against a speedy striker? Shouldn't there be a pair or at least a covering defender?
Why haven't you replaced the 'ball-watching' from our defence with 'man-watching' in our own box? Freeze frame the Ranjurs chances yesterday and almost every Hibs player appears hypnotized by the man with the ball. Been the same for years since Daz retired.
Do you get angry watching Iredale jog back at their first goal, make a half-arsed tackle on Ignamane (Triantis's wasn't much better) and then lazily fail to track his man into the box?
Why when other teams (and MarvE) can stop crosses by getting tight, do you allow our defenders to stand off and lazily throw a leg as a gesture?
Why when we try and clear, do you not instruct the defence to clear 'away' from the goal, instead of (like C Cadden yesrday) play the ball back into the centre?
Why do so many of our players stand off instead of putting a foot in? Is that an instruction, or are they just being not aggressive enough?


If SDG were to do a Q&A what additional questions would you like answers to? Or what answers do you think he would give to the above?

First, thanks for the mention - much appreciated.

I think the question I would ask, and it's from genuine curiosity to understand rather than a criticism, is whether or not we do a sort of hybrid zonal/man marking style of defending crosses in open play. If you look at Rangers' goals, the centre halves all go to cover areas, rather than players, and it looked like midfielders were expected to pick up the men.

I am sure this happens in loads of games but I hadn't really noticed it before (in fact, I think Colin might have pointed it out to me on the podcast rather than me noticing it on my own accord), but I thought it was an interesting approach so I would ask about that, but not from the position of saying we shouldn't have done it, but to learn about it.

[basehibby]

There is nothing interesting in that acticle.
It's 100% fluff.

Your comment is 100% guff. It's an interview with our manager in which he effectively acknowledges the gist of the OP - ie that defensive errors were made on Sun and there is still much work to be done in addressing them.

[Donegal Hibby]

He didn't say anything.
Managers say nothing, they are trained to speak but say nothing of substance in perfunctory media duties.
Boyle blah blah blah
Bushiri blah blah blah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-J5PsGHwtk

As a Hibs fan I find the Hibs manager comments on players , tactics etc always interesting .I regularly like to listen to both pre / post match interviews like this one where a lot of what Gray said was used in the article I put up . If you don’t find it interesting as I said that’s fair enough ….

https://youtu.be/6v0cUoQLROI?si=Bz59OylYeDvox8Yk

[PHeffernan]

Your comment is 100% guff. It's an interview with our manager in which he effectively acknowledges the gist of the OP - ie that defensive errors were made on Sun and there is still much work to be done in addressing them.

Wrong, I replied about an written article that Donegal posted a link for. Part of the article contained the comments of our manager from the post match media interview.
Donegal thought it was an interesting article but for me the writer hadn't written anything interesting hence I described it as 100% fluff.
Writer needs to at least try to channel his inner Hugh Mcllvanney to make his articles worth reading.

P.S. I didn't reference the OP at any point

[RIP]

Just to be clear, I lazily hoovered up the questions/challenges from some of the excellent blogs around, and Sportscene.

The only one I added on behalf of myself and my friends and family was the one about ball-watching. Going back years this has never been successfully coached out of the team.

Matty's team were asking about zonal marking. But as Bartley highlighted on Sportscene, it doesn't matter if nobody has eyes on the opposition players in our box.

[CentreLine]

I think the title of the thread should be “directing the defence” inasmuch as we really need a respected, experienced, central defender. It has to be worth spending the money to achieve that. I don’t think we’re likely to see anyone of the calibre of a Frank Sauzee but someone of his stature, towards the end of his career, that can direct and school the less experienced around him, would be immense in improving our back line.