Jake Doyle-Hayes

[Dashing Bob S]

A decent player but with injuries hampering his career he’d a touch of the Kyle McG two about him.

Should have no difficulty in finding another club, hope it’s not in the SPL as if he could get/stay fit he could come back to haunt us.

[Coco Bryce]

I wouldn't worry.

He'll be injured mostly.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’ve never been less concerned of a player coming back to haunt us.

Desperately average at best imo. Throw in the fact he’s made of glass and I’ve little doubt he’ll be in the lower leagues soon enough.

[keep the faith]

Coming out of Easter Road one afternoon my dad said that JDH was "the least adventurous player he had ever seen in a hibs shirt". Summed it up very nicely as far as I'm concerned.

I wish him well for the future, but never good enough for hibs.

[Ribs1875]

He was on a decent wage, he was a average performer for an average team. He is one ill do a Google search in five years to see where he ended up.

[basehibby]

I wish him well but the only time I can recall him being more than a baw hair above average was at home to St Mirren once when he scored two lovely goals. Apparently a bunch of his pals had come over from Ireland for the game and struck me that if the club had paid for them to come across for every match it would have been money well spent!

Seriously though - injuries hampered him but he never looked like being an outstanding performer on anything like a regular enough basis. Quite happy he's left to make room on the wage bill for someone else.

[Onceinawhile]

I wish him well but the only time I can recall him being more than a baw hair above average was at home to St Mirren once when he scored two lovely goals. Apparently a bunch of his pals had come over from Ireland for the game and struck me that if the club had paid for them to come across for every match it would have been money well spent!

Seriously though - injuries hampered him but he never looked like being an outstanding performer on anything like a regular enough basis. Quite happy he's left to make room on the wage bill for someone else.

You can remember it so well you can't even remember it was Ross county.

[Alex Trager]

Apparently suing Hibs in the court of session.

If true, presumably for the injury he suffered at the hands of LJ?
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/court-rolls/court-of-session-rolls/callings/28-may-2025/

[Vault Boy]

Interesting.

JDH was one of the first team player that LJ had training separately from the main group too, I wonder if his treatment is a component of the case.

[J-C]

Apparently suing Hibs in the court of session.

If true, presumably for the injury he suffered at the hands of LJ?
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/court-rolls/court-of-session-rolls/callings/28-may-2025/

Yet picked up a decent wage while injured

[Pagan Hibernia]

Saw him playing for Sligo a couple of weeks ago. He didn't do very much.

[Brightside]

Yet picked up a decent wage while injured

Did you expect him not to get paid? He's the good guy here.

[JimBHibees]

Wonder what his case is based on. Players get injured all the time

[ElginHibbie]

Wonder what his case is based on. Players get injured all the time

Not by their own managers

If JDH can argue his career been impacted by LJ having no reason to be in that situation, fair enough to the guy

[Unseen work]

Intersting to find out what it’s based on

It can’t be getting injured as that’s part and parcel of football. Unless it’s a Stephen Thomson v John McGinn scenario

The care afterwards?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Apparently suing Hibs in the court of session.

If true, presumably for the injury he suffered at the hands of LJ?
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/court-rolls/court-of-session-rolls/callings/28-may-2025/

As long as the injury wasn’t deliberate or reckless I’d be surprised if he had much of a case? Especially given we rightly continued paying him.

Smacks of a poor player knowing he’s been found out and his ability to earn much is behind him now.

[Unseen work]

Not by their own managers

If JDH can argue his career been impacted by LJ having no reason to be in that situation, fair enough to the guy

It’s upto a manager whether he takes part in training, there’s nothing to say players only train against other first teams players etc

Loads of managers join in

[Brightside]

As long as the injury wasn’t deliberate or reckless I’d be surprised if he had much of a case? Especially given we rightly continued paying him.

Smacks of a poor player knowing he’s been found out and his ability to earn much is behind him now.

Smacks of a dick of a manager with a napoleon complex sliding in on players returning from injury during a bounce game.

[Scouse Hibee]

Still displayed on the big screen at ER when the No 8 player is displayed, he appeared as one of the subs coming on at the Rangers game, pretty amateurish from Hibs.

[Centre Hawf]

Smacks of a dick of a manager with a napoleon complex sliding in on players returning from injury during a bounce game.

If I had to defend Lee Johnson (loathe to) for a moment, do we know that he slid into JDH? Managers get involved in training and coaches fill in spaces in drills or bounce games all the time. It could be a freak accident or even JDH himself that went in on Johnson and came off worse.

Whatever the suit is for I'm sure he has a case, and hopefully the right outcome is found.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Smacks of a dick of a manager with a napoleon complex sliding in on players returning from injury during a bounce game.

Can't blame LJ. It's what sharks do

[TrinityHFC]

It’s upto a manager whether he takes part in training, there’s nothing to say players only train against other first teams players etc

Loads of managers join in

JDH has also said himself that wasn’t the cause of the injury. That was just one flare up of it.

Another repeated fact….

[The Spaceman]

He got awfully upset at some Hibs fans in the West Stand lower when he was coming back from a warm-up just before he left - absolutely booted a water carrier and stormed off. A bit like Bojang - an incredibly limited footballer who couldn’t handle his dream not becoming a reality, although in his case injuries played a part.

[JimBHibees]

Not by their own managers

If JDH can argue his career been impacted by LJ having no reason to be in that situation, fair enough to the guy

Would assume every coach at any level is likely to have joined a session at some point whether to even up numbers if players injured etc. Surely he would need to prove intent to injure or significant negligence.

[Thatdayinmay16]

Taking hibs to court for something an ex employee did, sue LJ if this is what its all about.

F*** them both.

[I'm_cabbaged]

If his pals turn up for the hearing he might have a chance of winning

[CapitalGreen]

Taking hibs to court for something an ex employee did, sue LJ if this is what its all about.

F*** them both.

Where can you see details of the case?

[JimBHibees]

Taking hibs to court for something an ex employee did, sue LJ if this is what its all about.

F*** them both.

Tend to agree unless a big part of it is some negligence in his injury treatment by the club

[Brightside]

Taking hibs to court for something an ex employee did, sue LJ if this is what its all about.

F*** them both.

Tbf nobody knows the details. It may have nothing to do with LJ. But you don’t take your employer to court for no reason.

[JimBHibees]

If his pals turn up for the hearing he might have a chance of winning

Would be very unusual of employees to testify against their employer

[BILLYHIBS]

Shudda built in a NDA with his pay off

Who knew ?

[Blaster]

Tbf nobody knows the details. It may have nothing to do with LJ. But you don’t take your employer to court for no reason.

Hopefully he loses and has to pay all the costs

[SaulGoodman]

Still displayed on the big screen at ER when the No 8 player is displayed, he appeared as one of the subs coming on at the Rangers game, pretty amateurish from Hibs.

Didn’t even touch the ball when he came on as well. Usual.

[Hibbyradge]

Would be very unusual of employees to testify against their employer

I think he was referring to his pals in the stands. Remember he scored a couple of beauties against Ross County when his mates were watching?

[evy]

If his pals turn up for the hearing he might have a chance of winning

:thumbsup::top marks

[Hibernian Verse]

No one has a clue what's going through the court.

If he's suing, the club might well be in the wrong and Thompsons clearly think he has a case.

How good a footballer he is/was is irrelevant.

[I'm_cabbaged]

Would be very unusual of employees to testify against their employer

Tongue in cheek 😀
When he scored a cracking brace against RC, a squad of his pals had come over from Ireland

[Thatdayinmay16]

Tend to agree unless a big part of it is some negligence in his injury treatment by the club

Why would we neglect the guy during injury would be my question.

We've had countless guys in sides over the years with long term injuries/health scares who we've looked after with nothing but the best care available to them.

If its down to what happened to him with LJ then so be it, managers take part in training all the time, I doubt LJ went into the challenge in his head thinking "yes lets injure one of my players".

[Pretty Boy]

I suppose it's entirely possible Hibs just weren't a very good employer for a while. The Bojang stuff didn't read well even if some of it did seem to be misunderstanding rather than malice. Some kind of player care or liaison there might have helped....

Then we had people behind the scenes leaving under a bit of a cloud, some of whom had been stalwarts at the club and would be loathe to speak ill of it but came pretty close to.

Of course it's easy to argue the player who didn't contribute much on the park is wrong and that may well be the case but with little to go on it's just as possible the opposite is true.

Thankfully things seems a lot better now and it's really a legacy issue which doesn't reflect the current situation.

[J-C]

Did you expect him not to get paid? He's the good guy here.

Where did I say he shouldn't get paid, he was injured and we paid him well while being injured, most players move on with their careers when things don't work out. We don't know what his gripe is but is this all really necessary?

[Brightside]

Where did I say he shouldn't get paid, he was injured and we paid him well while being injured, most players move on with their careers when things don't work out. We don't know what his gripe is but is this all really necessary?

It’s clearly necessary otherwise why would he go with a court case. Could end up with a pretty hefty bill at the end of it.

[J-C]

It’s clearly necessary otherwise why would he go with a court case. Could end up with a pretty hefty bill at the end of it.

As someone says above, no one knows what is going through the courts, we are unsure if it's personal of professional issues.

[BlackSheep]

Yet picked up a decent wage while injured

Ive heard he is suing due to unpaid wages while injured.

[Brightside]

Ive heard he is suing due to unpaid wages while injured.

Well that would be rather amusing. Must be bonus related, unless they put him on basic sick pay.

[NAE NOOKIE]

No idea what the case is about, so it's all supposition at this point ..... but:

If this is a case based on an injury in training that wasn't a Thomson v McGinn situation, but simply injury in a normal challenge ( even if it was from the manager ) that happens in training all the time at every club. If JDH or any player for that matter was to win such a case clubs could be looking at a Bosman type situation where one player changes the whole fabric of the game, in this case how players train.
IMO he would have to prove there was malice in the challenge and have other players who were present at the time to back him up in court. Once again that's something that does happen in training when players have issues with each other.

If it's claiming the club were negligent in his welfare it's hard to say what that would be based on. I find it hard to believe he wouldn't have had exactly the same consideration vis a vis physiotherapy and medical treatment as any other player. In the end players are assets you can make money from, especially when he cost nothing in the first place, so why on earth would Hibs not do everything they could to ensure he was taken care of.

If it's just because he was excluded from first team training when he considered himself fit, that's another thing that happens at every club. If he was to win such a case citing mental stress or unfair treatment by the club, then as in the first scenario clubs would have to prepare themselves for an avalanche of lawsuits from disaffected players.

This will be interesting ....... though hopefully not costly for Hibs :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

As with many of these cases, it will probably be settled out of court.

The fact that it has been called for hearing suggests to me that any negotiations between JDH and the club haven't brought about a satisfactory outcome. Bringing it to Court is probably a bargaining move, and will concentrate the minds of both sides. Neither will want it to go that far.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Ive heard he is suing due to unpaid wages while injured.

It's a personal injury matter so won't be that.

[tamig]

Yet picked up a decent wage while injured

What a silly comment. Since when did injured players not get their contracted wage?

[Rumble de Thump]

The Lee Johnson training ground tackle was described as a 50-50 challenge. The problem was a piece of floating bone in Jake's ankle from a previous injury. It will be interesting to find out what this case is all about. I wish Jake well. I really enjoyed the good game he had for us.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

I suppose it's entirely possible Hibs just weren't a very good employer for a while. The Bojang stuff didn't read well even if some of it did seem to be misunderstanding rather than malice. Some kind of player care or liaison there might have helped....

Then we had people behind the scenes leaving under a bit of a cloud, some of whom had been stalwarts at the club and would be loathe to speak ill of it but came pretty close to.

Of course it's easy to argue the player who didn't contribute much on the park is wrong and that may well be the case but with little to go on it's just as possible the opposite is true.

Thankfully things seems a lot better now and it's really a legacy issue which doesn't reflect the current situation.

I thought Tracey Smith (ex Fans Rep) took up that role?
Possibly after that event but thought it was before or around that time.
We should have this in place and we have a big Hibernian family should be big enough to help integrate in…

[Centre Hawf]

I thought Tracey Smith (ex Fans Rep) took up that role?
Possibly after that event but thought it was before or around that time.
We should have this in place and we have a big Hibernian family should be big enough to help integrate in…

She was but left a few years ago now.

[J-C]

What a silly comment. Since when did injured players not get their contracted wage?

Amazing how you've managed to assume something that was never mentioned, the point being was that he was well paid even when injured, so what is his gripe with the club?

[tonyrougier123]

I don’t know Jake Doyle Hayes personally, but watching him play for hibs and his body language on the park it felt clear to me he wasn’t going to make the grade. A stroppy player with very little consistency , and he certainly wasn’t at a level to be pulling on a hibs shirt, I also think he knew this hence why he spent best part part of two seasons “injured” miraculously being available for Villa and Europe, can anybody remember how bad he was against inter club de’escaldes? Awful stuff diving in to tackles aggressively if as almost trying to get sent off. Shocking display.

Whilst the ins and outs of his injury will never be fully disclosed nothing will convince me this situation isn’t just sour grapes by a bang average footballer who simply failed to make an impact but gladly earned a wage for doing very little, a subsequent impact being having to drop to a level such as league of ireland. I’d also add that a new club signed him assuming with a medical pass certificate so that kind of leaves me baffled what indeed he could sue the club for.

If it’s for unpaid wages, maybe the medical team was passing him fit for selection and he was claiming he was still injured. Who knows.

The overall squad morale has significantly improved, maybe as a result of letting unhappy players leave, surely not a coincidence?

Again this is where I’d praise Malky Mackay, identifying and fixing the pool of players we had to get us performing as a team a club and as an employer.

[NAE NOOKIE]

The Lee Johnson training ground tackle was described as a 50-50 challenge. The problem was a piece of floating bone in Jake's ankle from a previous injury. It will be interesting to find out what this case is all about. I wish Jake well. I really enjoyed the good game he had for us.

That's possibly the finest example of 'damning with faint praise' I've ever seen :faf:

[easty]

Never rated him as a player at Hibs, and one of the low-points of the last few years (for me) was when Maloney was in charge and we got pumped away at Dundee. That night they had fat Charlie Adam shouting in JDH's face and he's too scared to even look at him, never mind battle him in midfield. It was pathetic.

That aside, nobody really knows what this court case is in relation to. Yeah, he picked up a fair wage while injured at Hibs, but he's absolutely entitled to do that, we offered him the deal. If Hibs are in the wrong then he's got every right to pursue whatever he wants through the courts.

I'd imagine it'll get settled before it makes it to trial though.

[Northernhibee]

That's possibly the finest example of 'damning with faint praise' I've ever seen :faf:

He really was a believable player for us.

[Pretty Boy]

I thought Tracey Smith (ex Fans Rep) took up that role?
Possibly after that event but thought it was before or around that time.
We should have this in place and we have a big Hibernian family should be big enough to help integrate in…

She was in the role and was very much valued by managers, players and their families. I don't think she was ever adequately replaced which was my point.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He really was a believable player for us.

:agree:

Stoppable on his day. Done the thinkable.

[Lago]

I think he was referring to his pals in the stands. Remember he scored a couple of beauties against Ross County when his mates were watching?
Think those two beauties were the highlight of his Hibs career.

[scm70nyd1973]

Hopefully he loses and has to pay all the costs

Depending on the type of case it’s not like that any more I’m afraid ☹️

[supermcginn]

Rotten player, bright side told us he was the best number 8 in Scotland, in reality he was utter pish just like Kenneh.

[Thatdayinmay16]

:agree:

Stoppable on his day. Done the thinkable.

Struck confidence in the opposition.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Struck confidence in the opposition.

The streets will forget.

[The Spaceman]

A real magician in midfield…could disappear in a flash.

[matty_f]

You could absolutely make a case for negligence for the injury. Lee Johnson has no place taking part in training sessions, even if he really, really wanted to. His participation puts others at risk because he has neither the fitness nor the physical skills and technique to safely play alongside professional footballers.

Putting him in increases the chances of a bad tackle/challenge significantly and puts player safety at risk.

I don’t think he’ll be suing for the challenge, though - I suspect it will be related to his subsequent treatment and recovery.

[Thatdayinmay16]

The streets will forget.

His skills were absolutely from this world.

[Springbank]

Guys you would want in the trenches with you:
John McGinn
Jack Iredale
Darren McGregor
David Gray
Grant Holt
The Caddens
Selfless, team players

Guy you would never want in the trenches with you:
Jake Doyle Hayes...

[Since452]

Thought this was another ex player we were wanting back when I saw the thread. JDH and Omeonga pulling the strings in midfield with Oli Shaw banging them in up front. Big Dabrowski with the safe pair of hands in goal.

[HoboHarry]

Guys you would want in the trenches with you:
John McGinn
Jack Iredale
Darren McGregor
David Gray
Grant Holt
The Caddens
Selfless, team players

Guy you would never want in the trenches with you:
Jake Doyle Hayes...
Gordon Hunter in the first lot too - a one man battalion :greengrin

[WoreTheGreen]

Dirk pornstar Lehman

[18Craig75]

Wasn’t there a note in the accounts about some funds that had been ring fenced due to a legal dispute?

[CropleyWasGod]

Wasn’t there a note in the accounts about some funds that had been ring fenced due to a legal dispute?

Can't see one.

Rangers have that permanently :greengrin

[BoomtownHibees]

You could absolutely make a case for negligence for the injury. Lee Johnson has no place taking part in training sessions, even if he really, really wanted to. His participation puts others at risk because he has neither the fitness nor the physical skills and technique to safely play alongside professional footballers.

Putting him in increases the chances of a bad tackle/challenge significantly and puts player safety at risk.

I don’t think he’ll be suing for the challenge, though - I suspect it will be related to his subsequent treatment and recovery.

Managers and coaches get involved in training all the time. Don’t see the issue

[Paulie Walnuts]

His skills were absolutely from this world.

Don’t cry because it happened, smile because it’s over.

[Brightside]

Hilarious comments. :rolleyes:

[TrinityHFC]

Managers and coaches get involved in training all the time. Don’t see the issue

Agree. Complete nonsense that there would be any way that could arise in a claim.

[Donegal Hibby]

Guys you would want in the trenches with you:
John McGinn
Jack Iredale
Darren McGregor
David Gray
Grant Holt
The Caddens
Selfless, team players

Guy you would never want in the trenches with you:
Jake Doyle Hayes...

I’ll add Rocky and Campbell to that list as well.

[Paul1642]

A fair few conclusions being jumped to and ultimately we don’t know right now.

If those theorising that it’s his Injury it would potentially set a very difficult precedent. Where do you draw the line?

Any injury caused by a reckless tackle in a game, especially one where a red card is shown therefore wrongdoing implied.

Any injury in training caused by a teammate or coach.

Being returned to football too soon after an injury causing a flare up.

What separates LJs challenge from the above?

[Hibbyradge]

Gordon Hunter in the first lot too - a one man battalion :greengrin

Gordon Rae, Shades, Mixu, Matty J etc etc.

There have been loads.

[Big_Franck]

He knows his career is over already and is looking for one last payday. He stole a wage from us for long enough, so I hope he doesn't get a penny more from us.

[SHODAN]

Definitely one of the Hibs players of all time.

[oneone73]

Hibs class this thread. Disgraceful.

[CropleyWasGod]

He knows his career is over already and is looking for one last payday. He stole a wage from us for long enough, so I hope he doesn't get a penny more from us.

Blimey

[tamig]

Amazing how you've managed to assume something that was never mentioned, the point being was that he was well paid even when injured, so what is his gripe with the club?

Then why mention it at all? I don’t think there’s anyone on this board that would expect the club to not honour a contract.

[tamig]

A fair few conclusions being jumped to and ultimately we don’t know right now.

If those theorising that it’s his Injury it would potentially set a very difficult precedent. Where do you draw the line?

Any injury caused by a reckless tackle in a game, especially one where a red card is shown therefore wrongdoing implied.

Any injury in training caused by a teammate or coach.

Being returned to football too soon after an injury causing a flare up.

What separates LJs challenge from the above?

I think there are precedents already. One famous one close to home was Jim Brown and John Pelosi. All depends on the nature of the challenge presumably.

[CropleyWasGod]

I think there are precedents already. One famous one close to home was Jim Brown and John Pelosi. All depends on the nature of the challenge presumably.

Jim sued Pelosi, not his club.

They settled out of Court, which is how I expect this one to go.

[Hibees1973]

Lots if, ayes and maybes on this.

I kind of hope it goes to court so we find out what he is moaning about.

If it throws light on some things where Hibs may not have acted in his best interests, then so be it. Or if JDH is talking p*sh then run him out of town.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hilarious comments. :rolleyes:

Ah I’m sure he’ll survive, much like LJ will survive your comments about him being a dick of a manager :rolleyes:

[Paulie Walnuts]

Definitely one of the Hibs players of all time.

You could take your eyes off him.

[BILLYHIBS]

Then why mention it at all? I don’t think there’s anyone on this board that would expect the club to not honour a contract.

Alf

[Lago]

Dirk pornstar Lehman
Matty Jack

[easty]

Alf

We honoured his contract.

He agreed to sign a new one. He didn’t have to.

[Smartie]

Did we not eventually end up in court with Brian Welsh over something that sounded similar?

Wasn’t all that long ago considering it was a while since he played for us.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did we not eventually end up in court with Brian Welsh over something that sounded similar?

Wasn’t all that long ago considering it was a while since he played for us.

From Wiki:-

Welsh began legal proceedings against Malcolm Morrison, who was employed as Hibernian club doctor during his time with the club, in 2008.[2] He claimed that an injection administered by Morrison had ruined his career,[2] and an out-of-court settlement for a "substantial sum" was reached.[2]

More here. It was the doctor he sued, rather than the club:-

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-hibs-star-brian-welsh-lands-975782

[J-C]

Then why mention it at all? I don’t think there’s anyone on this board that would expect the club to not honour a contract.

Because some were mentioning it may be to do with his injury, which I was pointing out he was still well paid while being injured, if he is in fact trying to sue us for said injury, he has a cheek as a pro footballer. Still don't see how you can't grasp that concept.

[BILLYHIBS]

We honoured his contract.

He agreed to sign a new one. He didn’t have to.
He was issued with an ultimatum sign off the second year of the contract we offered you or you will not play for this club again

He signed it from a footballing point of view after speaking to his agent and went on to make 30 appearances that season scoring 5 goals

He was sent to Coventry by the bosses ( Kensall and Gordon) through no fault of his own and is still waiting on an explanation

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/adam-le-fondre-claims-hibs-33216716

[Pretty Boy]

He was issued with an ultimatum sign off the second year of the contract we offered you or you will not play for this club again

He signed it from a footballing point of view after speaking to his agent and went on to make 30 appearances that season scoring 5 goals

He was sent to Coventry by the bosses ( Kensall and Gordon) through no fault of his own and is still waiting on an explanation

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/adam-le-fondre-claims-hibs-33216716

The most worrying part of that whole article given there is an ongoing court case involving a player who was perennially injured is that there seems to have been a major **** up in diagnosing and injury with ALF.

[JimBHibees]

Tongue in cheek 😀
When he scored a cracking brace against RC, a squad of his pals had come over from Ireland

Ok cheers

[easty]

He was issued with an ultimatum sign off the second year of the contract we offered you or you will not play for this club again

He signed it from a footballing point of view after speaking to his agent and went on to make 30 appearances that season scoring 5 goals

He was sent to Coventry by the bosses ( Kensall and Gordon) through no fault of his own and is still waiting on an explanation

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/adam-le-fondre-claims-hibs-33216716

New contract suited all parties.

If he didn’t sign it, we’d have lost out on playing him, and he’d have lost out by playing no football.

We didn’t want to be lumbered with him a second season, so a new contract was offered and signed.

He went on to play non-league after leaving. Which shows how good a decision that new contract was from our end.

[BILLYHIBS]

New contract suited all parties.

If he didn’t sign it, we’d have lost out on playing him, and he’d have lost out by playing no football.

We didn’t want to be lumbered with him a second season, so a new contract was offered and signed.

He went on to play non-league after leaving. Which shows how good a decision that new contract was from our end.

Smacks of ageism but I suppose he was two years older than Gayle and Hoilett when they made their debuts

Leaves a bad taste

We should really try and stick to our end of the bargain wherever possible and I dare say we will probably never find out what JDH’s issue is ( I liked him ) ?

Ian Gordon can add it to his learning curve as he really seems to have matured over the past two seasons

Now who agreed to sign a 17 year old for 110k and released him for diddly squat today ? :greengrin

[SHODAN]

You could take your eyes off him.

He's definitely somewhere in my okayest Hibs XI.

[Paul1642]

Smacks of ageism but I suppose he was two years older than Gayle and Hoilett when they made their debuts

Leaves a bad taste

We should really try and stick to our end of the bargain wherever possible and I dare say we will probably never find out what JDH’s issue is ( I liked him ) ?

Ian Gordon can add it to his learning curve as he really seems to have matured over the past two seasons

Now who agreed to sign a 17 year old for 110k and released him for diddly squat today ? :greengrin

The decision not to trigger the second year of ALFs contract was the right one for the club, and well within our rights. It’s probably safe to assume that if ALF stayed, Gayle would never have been brought in, and he was a huge positive influence on our season.

The deal was that if ALF played a certain number of games a second year was triggered. It obviously became clear to the club at some point that we didn’t want that and instead of shutting him out, we came to a solution where he could still play.

It perhaps could have been handled better but the outcome was correct for us.

[BILLYHIBS]

The decision not to trigger the second year of ALFs contract was the right one for the club, and well within our rights. It’s probably safe to assume that if ALF stayed, Gayle would never have been brought in, and he was a huge positive influence on our season.

The deal was that if ALF played a certain number of games a second year was triggered. It obviously became clear to the club at some point that we didn’t want that and instead of shutting him out, we came to a solution where he could still play.

It perhaps could have been handled better but the outcome was correct for us.
My understanding is Alf signed a two year deal and the club moved the goal posts

’ I had a two year deal but got misdiagnosed with a PCL injury’

[easty]

My understanding is Alf signed a two year deal and the club moved the goal posts

No, it was a year with an extra year that triggered after X games.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65933869.amp

[BILLYHIBS]

No, it was a year with an extra year that triggered after X games.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65933869.amp

👍

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65933869

[matty_f]

Managers and coaches get involved in training all the time. Don’t see the issue

That’s irrelevant, to be honest. There are acceptable and unavoidable risks in sport, getting injured by someone who is demonstrably not at a level to safely participate is not an acceptable or unavoidable risk.

It wouldn’t stand up at all in a tribunal or court case that other folk do it so that’s the problem?

Tons of folk speed every day without getting caught, it doesn’t stop the ones who do from getting a fine.

[matty_f]

Agree. Complete nonsense that there would be any way that could arise in a claim.

I spoke to an employment law specialist about it earlier (I know one, I didn’t go phoning up a solicitor for legal advice!) when I saw the court case, they reckoned there would be a fairly strong case for negligence if that was indeed what the case is over.

Players have a reasonable expectation that training is conducted by suitably skilled staff with due regard for their safety. If Johnson oversees a session and JDH gets injured by Newell, for example, there’s no claim.

Get Newell as an unqualified coach to run a session, and a player gets injured, they could have a case (as an example).

Put an out of shape coach into the session to play against elite footballers and that coach is, obviously, late into a tackle or misjudges the tackle because he’s clearly not at a level to participate, there’s potential for a claim.

[easty]

That’s irrelevant, to be honest. There are acceptable and unavoidable risks in sport, getting injured by someone who is demonstrably not at a level to safely participate is not an acceptable or unavoidable risk.



That makes no sense to me. Should SPL players be allowed to sue League 2 players if they're injured playing against them in the cups?

The manager has the right to include himself in training if he deems it appropriate. If JDH is claiming he deliberately injured him then that's a completely different matter.

We had Bojang training with the first team. He was nowhere near the standard of Hibs first team either.

[sauzee1989]

Awful player and attitude. Couldn’t handle a hibs fan asking him why he needed the balaclava on when he’s meant to be warming up yet looked more interested in chatting

[matty_f]

That makes no sense to me. Should SPL players be allowed to sue League 2 players if they're injured playing against them in the cups?

The manager has the right to include himself in training if he deems it appropriate. If JDH is claiming he deliberately injured him then that's a completely different matter.

We had Bojang training with the first team. He was nowhere near the standard of Hibs first team either.

Is not the same thing - that’s acceptable and unavoidable risk. There’s absolutely no need for coaches to be in a position where they’re tackling players. That’s not to say it doesn’t happen and isn’t fine 99% of the time, but those times are, according to the person I spoke to, irrelevant for the time someone gets injured.

[Unseen work]

I spoke to an employment law specialist about it earlier (I know one, I didn’t go phoning up a solicitor for legal advice!) when I saw the court case, they reckoned there would be a fairly strong case for negligence if that was indeed what the case is over.

Players have a reasonable expectation that training is conducted by suitably skilled staff with due regard for their safety. If Johnson oversees a session and JDH gets injured by Newell, for example, there’s no claim.

Get Newell as an unqualified coach to run a session, and a player gets injured, they could have a case (as an example).

Put an out of shape coach into the session to play against elite footballers and that coach is, obviously, late into a tackle or misjudges the tackle because he’s clearly not at a level to participate, there’s potential for a claim.

Surely Johnson being an ex-player comes into though? One that played at a similar level to JDH and much more games.

Now, he is a manager and been out of professional football as a player for a while but from a negligence point of view the ‘skill’ would still be there and it’s not like they’ve chucked in a random off the street.

As for fitness and sharpness, surely that is a bit more subjective

[Donegal Hibby]

Awful player and attitude. Couldn’t handle a hibs fan asking him why he needed the balaclava on when he’s meant to be warming up yet looked more interested in chatting

I don’t think he was an awful player at the time we signed him. I don’t know what is attitude was like other than what I’ve read …

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cnvj3znqnp7o

A lot of footballers wear neck warmers , balaclavas now depending on the weather or possibly other reasons I’m not aware of , seem to be popular as there’s even a section of fans at most clubs in Scotland that seem to feel the need to wear them now , are they asked by other fans why they wear them? Genuine question btw ..

I don’t know who’s at fault in this latest situation or even if there is a case that JDH’s is right until there’s more on it I don’t think we can really point fingers at anyone at this stage IMO .

[easty]

Surely Johnson being an ex-player comes into though? One that layered at a similar level to JDH and much more games.

Now, he is a manager and been out of professional football as a player for a while but from a negligence point of view the ‘skill’ would still be there and it’s not like they’ve chucked in a random off the street.

As for fitness and sharpness, surely that is a bit more subjective

Johnson has his UEFA pro licence on top of all that. It's not like it's Stevie Naebadges just chucking a training session together.

[matty_f]

Surely Johnson being an ex-player comes into though? One that played at a similar level to JDH and much more games.

Now, he is a manager and been out of professional football as a player for a while but from a negligence point of view the ‘skill’ would still be there and it’s not like they’ve chucked in a random off the street.

As for fitness and sharpness, surely that is a bit more subjective

He’s an ex player for a number of years, the fitness and capability absolutely comes into it. He’s not training at the level of the players, he’s not living a professional footballer’s lifestyle - he can probably still trap a ball and that but he’d be miles off it in a game.

The players’ fitness is objectively measured - the club know in great detail what the players’ fitness levels and condition are, they have bespoke training regimes and spend a huge amount of time getting into peak condition.

Lee Johnson did not.

[matty_f]

Johnson has his UEFA pro licence on top of all that. It's not like it's Stevie Naebadges just chucking a training session together.

That’s fine if he’s just putting the session on, less so when he’s playing at being a footballer and smashing into players.

[Donegal Hibby]

Has Darren McGregor played in games for the Hibs youth teams ?

[TrinityHFC]

I spoke to an employment law specialist about it earlier (I know one, I didn’t go phoning up a solicitor for legal advice!) when I saw the court case, they reckoned there would be a fairly strong case for negligence if that was indeed what the case is over.

Players have a reasonable expectation that training is conducted by suitably skilled staff with due regard for their safety. If Johnson oversees a session and JDH gets injured by Newell, for example, there’s no claim.

Get Newell as an unqualified coach to run a session, and a player gets injured, they could have a case (as an example).

Put an out of shape coach into the session to play against elite footballers and that coach is, obviously, late into a tackle or misjudges the tackle because he’s clearly not at a level to participate, there’s potential for a claim.

They were talking nonsense too then.

You can get a lawyer to argue any hypothetical point you want, especially if they don’t actually have to take the thing on.

[TrinityHFC]

Doesn’t sound likely that he’d go on to make a claim about this does it?


“There was a bit of a coming together in training with the manager but it happens and it could have been any of the lads,” said Doyle-Hayes. “It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. We train with intensity. The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot – I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it.”

According to doctors, the manager did not inflict the initial damage. His meaty challenge only exacerbated it. “I didn’t really know I had the injury,” admitted Doyle-Hayes. “When I got the scan they said it could have been an old injury. I had been carrying it for a while, they reckoned. I’m just looking to get my season started now, really, even though there are not many games left.”

[matty_f]

Doesn’t sound likely that he’d go on to make a claim about this does it?


“There was a bit of a coming together in training with the manager but it happens and it could have been any of the lads,” said Doyle-Hayes. “It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. We train with intensity. The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot – I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it.”

According to doctors, the manager did not inflict the initial damage. His meaty challenge only exacerbated it. “I didn’t really know I had the injury,” admitted Doyle-Hayes. “When I got the scan they said it could have been an old injury. I had been carrying it for a while, they reckoned. I’m just looking to get my season started now, really, even though there are not many games left.”

He’s not done himself any favours there if that’s what his claim was, that’s for sure.

Guess this is why folk are speculating on hypotheticals, eh? We don’t know what the case is.

[matty_f]

They were talking nonsense too then.

You can get a lawyer to argue any hypothetical point you want, especially if they don’t actually have to take the thing on.

:faf: I’ll tell them today that they’re talking nonsense. I’m sure they’ll give a toss!

[JimBHibees]

I spoke to an employment law specialist about it earlier (I know one, I didn’t go phoning up a solicitor for legal advice!) when I saw the court case, they reckoned there would be a fairly strong case for negligence if that was indeed what the case is over.

Players have a reasonable expectation that training is conducted by suitably skilled staff with due regard for their safety. If Johnson oversees a session and JDH gets injured by Newell, for example, there’s no claim.

Get Newell as an unqualified coach to run a session, and a player gets injured, they could have a case (as an example).

Put an out of shape coach into the session to play against elite footballers and that coach is, obviously, late into a tackle or misjudges the tackle because he’s clearly not at a level to participate, there’s potential for a claim.

I get that to an extent suppose the context would be was he out of shape, was it a game situation or say a keep ball drill, was it reckless by Johnson or a fair looking tackle which others could vouch for eg other coaches or players present. Was jdh in some way culpable eg he tackled recklessly. Was Johnson part of the session a regular thing which no one had an issue with? On the face of it unless Johnson has shown deliberate intent imo seems a pretty weak case but all about the context.

[JimBHibees]

Doesn’t sound likely that he’d go on to make a claim about this does it?


“There was a bit of a coming together in training with the manager but it happens and it could have been any of the lads,” said Doyle-Hayes. “It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. We train with intensity. The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot – I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it.”

According to doctors, the manager did not inflict the initial damage. His meaty challenge only exacerbated it. “I didn’t really know I had the injury,” admitted Doyle-Hayes. “When I got the scan they said it could have been an old injury. I had been carrying it for a while, they reckoned. I’m just looking to get my season started now, really, even though there are not many games left.”

His comments don’t exactly strengthen the case though assuming it will be based on some sort of lack of duty of care due to Johnson being involved.

[Unseen work]

He’s an ex player for a number of years, the fitness and capability absolutely comes into it. He’s not training at the level of the players, he’s not living a professional footballer’s lifestyle - he can probably still trap a ball and that but he’d be miles off it in a game.

The players’ fitness is objectively measured - the club know in great detail what the players’ fitness levels and condition are, they have bespoke training regimes and spend a huge amount of time getting into peak condition.

Lee Johnson did not.

I’ve no doubt that he’d be miles off it fitness wise for a game, but for anything to be taken to court? I’d be sceptical, especially with the comments JDH made in the press.

I think clubs across the world would be aware of the potential lawsuits with managers/coaches taking part in training if that was the case and no one would do it. Where would it end for example? Beuzelin and McGregor take the under 18’s, could they not join in? Neither playing and both about double the age of some of our youngsters

Btw this isn’t a go at you/or the information you received - I just like debating these sort of points 🤣

I think it’s doing to be due to the care he received post injury or the pact Hibs never picked up on the injury prior to the tackle.

[Pretty Boy]

I wonder if the case is more around the fact JDH says in the interview above that the challenge exacerbated an existing injury that had been missed rather than being causation of a new injury. When you add that to ALF saying in another interview above that he had a cruciate ligament injury misdiagnosed as a hamstring problem, was declared fit to play then worsened the actual injury by doing so then it doesn't make great reading. I suppose at the time if JDH thought it was a short term issue he wasn't overly concerned but the subsequent time spent out the game and the obvious decline in his football career has seen him seek further advice.

Iirc we had a whole host of players going down with soft tissue injuries around that time. It was discussed regularly as a problem and used by at least one manager as a (potentially legitimate) excuse for poor results and performances. I think we made a few changes in the medical department quietly behind the scenes.

Again that is all just hypothetical and I'm not even sure if such a case would be against Hibs or the individual physio or doctor in such a scenario.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I wonder if the case is more around the fact JDH says in the interview above that the challenge exacerbated an existing injury that had been missed rather than being causation of a new injury. When you add that to ALF saying in another interview above that he had a cruciate ligament injury misdiagnosed as a hamstring problem, was declared fit to play then worsened the actual injury by doing so then it doesn't make great reading. I suppose at the time if JDH thought it was a short term issue he wasn't overly concerned but the subsequent time spent out the game and the obvious decline in his football career has seen him seek further advice.

Iirc we had a whole host of players going down with soft tissue injuries around that time. It was discussed regularly as a problem and used by at least one manager as a (potentially legitimate) excuse for poor results and performances. I think we made a few changes in the medical department quietly behind the scenes.

Again that is all just hypothetical and I'm not even sure if such a case would be against Hibs or the individual physio or doctor in such a scenario.

Martin Boyle was also signed from Saudi with his injury ‘missed’ in a medical, if that’s the route this is going down.

We also had guys like Magennis who Jack Ross admitted they couldn’t work out what was wrong with him at one point despite him being months into being injured.

I’d think there’s a much better chance that this is the route the case is going down, rather than because LJ was unsuitable to be playing in a training match. Our medical side of the club was quite clearly not up to standard a few years ago.

[Jamesie]

Taking hibs to court for something an ex employee did, sue LJ if this is what its all about.

F*** them both.

Employers generally have vicarious liability for the actions of their employee. It would be a fairly high hurdle in law for the club to surpass to displace that - effectively proving that (again, assuming this case is about a tackle from LJ) that LJ was off on a “frolic of his own” beyond the scope of his employment.

[Thatdayinmay16]

Don’t cry because it happened, smile because it’s over.

He did what everyone else could do.

[Thatdayinmay16]

Has Darren McGregor played in games for the Hibs youth teams ?

What's that got to do with anything?

[Centre Hawf]

Has Darren McGregor played in games for the Hibs youth teams ?

Not since he retired properly I believe. He was a regular for the Dev/Reserve squads when it was a thing in his final year but he was still a registered player that could have played for the first team if needed.

[Brightside]

Doesn’t sound likely that he’d go on to make a claim about this does it?


“There was a bit of a coming together in training with the manager but it happens and it could have been any of the lads,” said Doyle-Hayes. “It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. We train with intensity. The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot – I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it.”

According to doctors, the manager did not inflict the initial damage. His meaty challenge only exacerbated it. “I didn’t really know I had the injury,” admitted Doyle-Hayes. “When I got the scan they said it could have been an old injury. I had been carrying it for a while, they reckoned. I’m just looking to get my season started now, really, even though there are not many games left.”

JDH was employed by Hibs at this time - do you think he's going to say anything different? If a manager turns up still pissed from a previous night out would you expect players to mention it during an interview? Just because it's reported doesnt make it true. There are plenty current and past well regarded Hibs players who have nothing but praise for JDH and his time at Hibs. Not many would say the same for Lee Johnson.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I love that we’re to disregard Doyle-Hayes version of events (one that’s been corroborated numerous times by others) as to what happened to Doyle-Hayes and instead believe a completely different set of events from someone who wasn’t even there.

[Donegal Hibby]

Not since he retired properly I believe. He was a regular for the Dev/Reserve squads when it was a thing in his final year but he was still a registered player that could have played for the first team if needed.

I thought he might have , point I was making is there are times when a team has a bigger , more physical player coming back from injury that sometimes plays in a reserve/ youth game with the young lads to get them up to speed . A lot of managers have over the years joined in on training sessions.

[Brightside]

I love that we’re to disregard Doyle-Hayes version of events (one that’s been corroborated numerous times by others) as to what happened to Doyle-Hayes and instead believe a completely different set of events from someone who wasn’t even there.

We could just slag the boy off and make up stories about his attitude instead.

[matty_f]

I love that we’re to disregard Doyle-Hayes version of events (one that’s been corroborated numerous times by others) as to what happened to Doyle-Hayes and instead believe a completely different set of events from someone who wasn’t even there.

I’m not sure if I’m included in this, just for the avoidance of doubt my whole point was based on a hypothetical that he could argue a case IF that was the route he was going down but there could be loads of reasons he’s gone to court where this isn’t even relevant.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’m not sure if I’m included in this, just for the avoidance of doubt my whole point was based on a hypothetical that he could argue a case IF that was the route he was going down but there could be loads of reasons he’s gone to court where this isn’t even relevant.

Na, you weren’t included Matty.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We could just slag the boy off and make up stories about his attitude instead.

Pretty ironic given you’ve described the other party in the incident as a dick and made up a story about him being drunk when he made the tackle.

[Brightside]

Pretty ironic given you’ve described the other party in the incident as a dick and made up a story about him being drunk when he made the tackle.

I didn’t say anything about LJ being drunk. Stop making things up.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I didn’t say anything about LJ being drunk. Stop making things up.

You quite clearly alluded to it in your post or else your comment about a manager turning up pissed is just absolute random nonsense that doesn’t make any sense in the context of the discussion.

[Brightside]

You quite clearly alluded to it in your post or else your comment about a manager turning up pissed is just absolute random nonsense that doesn’t make any sense in the context of the discussion.

“A manager”. I’ll take that as an apology. 👍

[Paulie Walnuts]

“A manager”. I’ll take that as an apology. 👍

You can take it as whatever you want. :aok:

[lyonhibs]

You quite clearly alluded to it in your post or else your comment about a manager turning up pissed is just absolute random nonsense that doesn’t make any sense in the context of the discussion.

Eh?? I took that reference to just be a hypothetical example of another event (like a manager crunching a player in a training exercise) that wouldn't be fully and frankly discussed by a football player in the employment of a football club to the media at any club, anywhere.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Eh?? I took that reference to just be a hypothetical example of another event (like a manager crunching a player in a training exercise) that wouldn't be fully and frankly discussed by a football player in the employment of a football club to the media at any club, anywhere.

A manager turning up pished and a manager joining in training are completely incomparable situations so it would be a bizarre ‘hypothetical’ to use. One would be a sackable offence, the other is common practice and generally accepted by clubs the world over, even at elite level. Clips have surfaced before of Zidane and Xabi Alonso joining in training for example.

It was quite clearly something that Brightside was alluding to, especially bearing in mind the fictitious mud they’ve thrown at LJ previously.

[Centre Hawf]

A manager turning up pished and a manager joining in training are completely incomparable situations so it would be a bizarre ‘hypothetical’ to use. One would be a sackable offence, the other is common practice and probably generally accepted by clubs the world over, even at elite level. Clips have surfaced before of Zidane and Xabi Alonso joining in training for example.

It was quite clearly something that Brightside was alluding to, especially bearing in mind the fictitious mud they’ve thrown at LJ previously.

The hypothetical tbf was about whether players would tow the party line or go off on their own rant about what they really think of something. The answer is players will tow the line if they're put up for press, otherwise they'll not be out there again. JDH wasn't exactly going to go and say "I'm planning on suing the club and LJ when I leave.

[Brightside]

“A manager”. I’ll take that as an apology. 👍

Evening news adding a few more details.

[Lago]

Love the way these type of threads develop 😁

[Paulie Walnuts]

The hypothetical tbf was about whether players would tow the party line or go off on their own rant about what they really think of something. The answer is players will tow the line if they're put up for press, otherwise they'll not be out there again. JDH wasn't exactly going to go and say "I'm planning on suing the club and LJ when I leave.

And that would be fair if we were talking about drunk managers. We weren’t. We were talking about a manager joining in training, something completely innocuous and JDH discussed what happened during the incident. He didn’t really give an opinion on it, it was a factual discussion as to what happened.

A player discussing a training injury being compared to a manager being drunk on the job is nonsense and is absolutely not a relevant hypothetical to the JDH/LJ situation. Quite simply, it’s not a hypothetical anyone would use when looking for a comparable, hypothetical situation.

[Brightside]

Eh?? I took that reference to just be a hypothetical example of another event (like a manager crunching a player in a training exercise) that wouldn't be fully and frankly discussed by a football player in the employment of a football club to the media at any club, anywhere.

Exactly. At this rate I may need to get Jake’s lawyers. 😂

[matty_f]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-star-incompetent-and-incoherent-lee-johnson-manager-jake-doyle-hayes-court-case-5153468

[Brightside]

A manager turning up pished and a manager joining in training are completely incomparable situations so it would be a bizarre ‘hypothetical’ to use. One would be a sackable offence, the other is common practice and generally accepted by clubs the world over, even at elite level. Clips have surfaced before of Zidane and Xabi Alonso joining in training for example.

It was quite clearly something that Brightside was alluding to, especially bearing in mind the fictitious mud they’ve thrown at LJ previously.

I’ve thrown nothing fictitious at LJ. Unless I said he was a nice guy once.

[Paulie Walnuts]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-star-incompetent-and-incoherent-lee-johnson-manager-jake-doyle-hayes-court-case-5153468

I love the idea that it was the tackle, and not the fact he was absolutely ***** that has robbed him of a decent career.

Can’t see any way he wins the case when he has publicly claimed it was “nobodies fault” previously and also indicated that it was a tackle that could have been made by “any of the lads” which quite clearly suggests it was an innocent and reasonable challenge and not something that screamed ‘retired unfit manager who can’t keep up’.

Clearly a cash grab by a desperately poor player who has realised he’s found his level and realised there’s not a lot of money to be had at it.

[matty_f]

I love the idea that it was the tackle, and not the fact he was absolutely ***** that has robbed him of a decent career.

Can’t see any way he wins the case when he has publicly claimed it was “nobodies fault” previously and also indicated that it was a tackle that could have been made by “any of the lads” which quite clearly suggests it was an innocent and reasonable challenge and not something that screamed ‘retired unfit manager who can’t keep up’.

Clearly a cash grab by a desperately poor player who has realised he’s found his level and realised there’s not a lot of money to be had at it.

I raised that with my colleague, he says it wasn’t likely to prejudice the case too much, as it could be reasonably argued that it wasn’t appropriate for JDH to call it out whilst still in employment with the possibility of a future at the club. They said it definitely didn’t help his case though, but isn’t a silver bullet against it.

[1875Sean]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/hibs-star-incompetent-and-incoherent-lee-johnson-manager-jake-doyle-hayes-court-case-5153468

Interesting, you always hear about managed joining in training, injuries are part of the game, surely nothing will come from it

[Pretty Boy]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think it will be on his lawyers to prove that Johnson's participation in and/or conduct in the training game was reckless.

I suppose it comes down to whether Johnson's behaviour was deemed appropriate for the situation. If he was just making up numbers and an innocuous 50/50 left a player hurt then that's one thing. If he was showing off and went flying into a tackle 'for a laugh's then that starts to move towards the McGinn/Thompson situation whereby a situation wasn't necessarily malicious but became reckless and dangerous.

It will be particularly interesting to see if any ex or current players have to testify. My gut feeling is nobody wants a court case here and it will be settled out of court. Hibs won't want the potential embarrassment and awkwardness and JDH probably knows his case is 50/50 at best.

[500miles]

Nice to have another reason to slate that fat slaver to be fair.

[Trinity Hibee]

I heard LJ had 9 inch nails as studs

[TrinityHFC]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think it will be on his lawyers to prove that Johnson's participation in and/or conduct in the training game was reckless.

I suppose it comes down to whether Johnson's behaviour was deemed appropriate for the situation. If he was just making up numbers and an innocuous 50/50 left a player hurt then that's one thing. If he was showing off and went flying into a tackle 'for a laugh's then that starts to move towards the McGinn/Thompson situation whereby a situation wasn't necessarily malicious but became reckless and dangerous.

It will be particularly interesting to see if any ex or current players have to testify. My gut feeling is nobody wants a court case here and it will be settled out of court. Hibs won't want the potential embarrassment and awkwardness and JDH probably knows his case is 50/50 at best.

This claim will be completely speculative to try and make something out of a career that has otherwise frittered away.

Don’t expect anything to come out of it. First, it isn’t unusual for coaching staff to be involved in training and secondly the player has already said there was nothing in it, it was an accident and that scans showed the injury was likely to have been there already.

[SunshineOnLeith]

Sorry to ruin the fun but Hibs will have insurance, and it will probably be settled long before it gets to the stage of Lee Johnson being called to give evidence as to his tackling ability.

[matty_f]

Interesting, you always hear about managed joining in training, injuries are part of the game, surely nothing will come from it

I think it would depend on the drill etc that’s happening, and also a fair amount of it will land on players’ knowledge of what their employee rights are.

Players will accept a fair amount as part and parcel of being a footballer, their relationships with clubs and coaches will inform a lot of decision making in whether something is actionable or not as well, plus the severity of the situation that results will steer their thinking.

You could put some coaches into training and be absolutely fine, they are maybe recently retired and maintain their fitness by training with the team on conditioning etc, but clubs have a duty of care to the players and that extends to who is involved in training, who assesses their fitness, agrees their physical training plan etc.

Even if you take something like a player coming in and slipping on a freshly cleaned floor, if they’re injured and challenged that the floor wasn’t cleaned properly, Hibs would need to show that whoever cleaned the floor had received appropriate training or had appropriate skills to do it as part of their duty of care.

It is easy to dismiss these things as common practice or just one of those things that can happen, but when something goes wrong and you wind back to how it happened and who’s responsible for it, it can very quickly highlight a lack of care from the employer who hasn’t considered the duty of care implications for the practices - such as letting a head coach who is clearly no longer at the standard of a professional footballer get involved in a situation where he’s challenging and injuring a player. Even on things that are seen as an occupational hazard.

[Thatdayinmay16]

"The Irish midfielder is seeking compensation from the club over the injury that derailed his attempts to make a lasting impact on the first team."

This line is hilarious considering he was absolute guff before the injury and after it.

Just an attempt at a cash grab when he himself admitted that LJ didn't maliciously attempt to hurt him.

Couldn't be arsed turning up for hibs on a Saturday but been playing every week since joining sligo funnily enough.

[TrinityHFC]

I think it would depend on the drill etc that’s happening, and also a fair amount of it will land on players’ knowledge of what their employee rights are.

Players will accept a fair amount as part and parcel of being a footballer, their relationships with clubs and coaches will inform a lot of decision making in whether something is actionable or not as well, plus the severity of the situation that results will steer their thinking.

You could put some coaches into training and be absolutely fine, they are maybe recently retired and maintain their fitness by training with the team on conditioning etc, but clubs have a duty of care to the players and that extends to who is involved in training, who assesses their fitness, agrees their physical training plan etc.

Even if you take something like a player coming in and slipping on a freshly cleaned floor, if they’re injured and challenged that the floor wasn’t cleaned properly, Hibs would need to show that whoever cleaned the floor had received appropriate training or had appropriate skills to do it as part of their duty of care.

It is easy to dismiss these things as common practice or just one of those things that can happen, but when something goes wrong and you wind back to how it happened and who’s responsible for it, it can very quickly highlight a lack of care from the employer who hasn’t considered the duty of care implications for the practices - such as letting a head coach who is clearly no longer at the standard of a professional footballer get involved in a situation where he’s challenging and injuring a player. Even on things that are seen as an occupational hazard.

You are way overthinking this.

It is a nonsense claim.

[Paulie Walnuts]

"The Irish midfielder is seeking compensation from the club over the injury that derailed his attempts to make a lasting impact on the first team."

This line is hilarious considering he was absolute guff before the injury and after it.

Just an attempt at a cash grab when he himself admitted that LJ didn't maliciously attempt to hurt him.

Couldn't be arsed turning up for hibs on a Saturday but been playing every week since joining sligo funnily enough.

:agree:

Don’t necessarily agree on your last point (maybe because I largely couldn’t care less what he was up to whilst we weren’t being subjected to him on the pitch), but he was an absolutely terrible player. Made Brian Kerr look like a maverick.

[easty]

He should be focussing on a negligent angle for the club not diagnosing the original injury that was exacerbated by the tackle

I cannae see him winning a case against a tackle injuring him.

Maybe he’s just hoping for an out of court settlement

[matty_f]

You are way overthinking this.

It is a nonsense claim.

I’m not making any judgement on whether he’ll by successful with it, and it’s not overthinking to know what you’re talking about.
His solicitors clearly think he’s got a better than 50/50 chance of winning otherwise they wouldn’t be taking the case.

[SteveHFC]

"The Irish midfielder is seeking compensation from the club over the injury that derailed his attempts to make a lasting impact on the first team."

This line is hilarious considering he was absolute guff before the injury and after it.

Just an attempt at a cash grab when he himself admitted that LJ didn't maliciously attempt to hurt him.

Couldn't be arsed turning up for hibs on a Saturday but been playing every week since joining sligo funnily enough.

He said this in the record 2 years ago.

“It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. That’s how it happened, we don’t hold back because we train with intensity.

“The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot - I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it and that’s the way we train.“

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jake-doyle-hayes-absolves-lee-29600004.amp

[Thatdayinmay16]

He said this in the record 2 years ago.

“It was a tackle, a 50-50 and nobody holds back in training so it wasn’t an issue. That’s how it happened, we don’t hold back because we train with intensity.

“The gaffer doesn’t join in a lot - I don’t think he has joined in since! He apologised, said it was an accident but I knew that anyway. It was nobody’s fault, he didn’t mean it and that’s the way we train.“

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/jake-doyle-hayes-absolves-lee-29600004.amp

That was the quote I was alluding to, funny how he's now backtracked from that original statement.

The guy won the lottery being at hibs, it's the furthest he'd have reached. No "Career was derailed" considering he was still being paid and has now ended up playing for Sligo week in week out.

[Wilson]

I’m not making any judgement on whether he’ll by successful with it, and it’s not overthinking to know what you’re talking about.
His solicitors clearly think he’s got a better than 50/50 chance of winning otherwise they wouldn’t be taking the case.

No win, no fee?

[matty_f]

No win, no fee?

Wouldn’t think so here!

[Thatdayinmay16]

No win, no fee?

Should have went with Digby Brown.

[Brightside]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think it will be on his lawyers to prove that Johnson's participation in and/or conduct in the training game was reckless.

I suppose it comes down to whether Johnson's behaviour was deemed appropriate for the situation. If he was just making up numbers and an innocuous 50/50 left a player hurt then that's one thing. If he was showing off and went flying into a tackle 'for a laugh's then that starts to move towards the McGinn/Thompson situation whereby a situation wasn't necessarily malicious but became reckless and dangerous.

It will be particularly interesting to see if any ex or current players have to testify. My gut feeling is nobody wants a court case here and it will be settled out of court. Hibs won't want the potential embarrassment and awkwardness and JDH probably knows his case is 50/50 at best.

It would be very surprising if he has taking it to court without anything more than he said / no he said. There is some interesting wording in the complaint for sure.

[Brightside]

This claim will be completely speculative to try and make something out of a career that has otherwise frittered away.

Don’t expect anything to come out of it. First, it isn’t unusual for coaching staff to be involved in training and secondly the player has already said there was nothing in it, it was an accident and that scans showed the injury was likely to have been there already.

You fancy spending 20k+ for a day in court just on the off chance?

[Jamesie]

Proceedings in relation to a personal injury matter need to be raised within three years of the event giving rise to the claim - the “triennium”. It’s fairly common for protective proceedings to be raised to avoid eroding any negotiating position / losing the right to litigate if negotiations don’t reach a successful outcome.

Whilst JDH would likely have until September to raise these proceedings, it may suit him / his advisors to raise proceedings now to demonstrate they are apparently serious in proceeding with the action. The action can be paused / withdrawn at any stage.

[HoboHarry]

I’m not making any judgement on whether he’ll by successful with it, and it’s not overthinking to know what you’re talking about.
His solicitors clearly think he’s got a better than 50/50 chance of winning otherwise they wouldn’t be taking the case.
Unless it's a no win no fee scenario then why wouldn't they take the case, they'd be getting paid even if they lost. My experience of soliciters/lawyers is that they only refuse cases if the case could burden them with reputational damage - like everyone else they need to make money.

[NAE NOOKIE]

JDH was employed by Hibs at this time - do you think he's going to say anything different? If a manager turns up still pissed from a previous night out would you expect players to mention it during an interview? Just because it's reported doesnt make it true. There are plenty current and past well regarded Hibs players who have nothing but praise for JDH and his time at Hibs. Not many would say the same for Lee Johnson.

No wonder JDH couldn't nail down a first team place if he couldn't even dodge a tackle from a half pissed out of shape 40 year old.

:duck:

[McD]

That was the quote I was alluding to, funny how he's now backtracked from that original statement.

The guy won the lottery being at hibs, it's the furthest he'd have reached. No "Career was derailed" considering he was still being paid and has now ended up playing for Sligo week in week out.


Would be interesting to see how he/his lawyers demonstrate that his career has been derailed, when he continued to (rightly) be paid by Hibs during this period time, and agreed to mutual parting of the ways, which would imply he’d been given a payoff to leave early. There really isn’t a way to prove he’d have been offered another contract at Hibs, or anyone else of a similar or higher level.

[Thatdayinmay16]

JDH was employed by Hibs at this time - do you think he's going to say anything different? If a manager turns up still pissed from a previous night out would you expect players to mention it during an interview? Just because it's reported doesnt make it true. There are plenty current and past well regarded Hibs players who have nothing but praise for JDH and his time at Hibs. Not many would say the same for Lee Johnson.

Johnson gave us more memories in 90 minutes than JDH gave us in 3 years.

As for the bit in bold, who?

[Thatdayinmay16]

Would be interesting to see how he/his lawyers demonstrate that his career has been derailed, when he continued to (rightly) be paid by Hibs during this period time, and agreed to mutual parting of the ways, which would imply he’d been given a payoff to leave early. There really isn’t a way to prove he’d have been offered another contract at Hibs, or anyone else of a similar or higher level.

Yup, couldn't agree more.

He agreed to a pay off when he could have stayed and fought for his place in the first team and then seen out his contract and then moved to another club or potentially been offered a new deal.

We've not "derailed" anything, classic example of a guy throwing his toys out of the pram.

[Brightside]

Yup, couldn't agree more.

He agreed to a pay off when he could have stayed and fought for his place in the first team and then seen out his contract and then moved to another club or potentially been offered a new deal.

We've not "derailed" anything, classic example of a guy throwing his toys out of the pram.

Again you are assuming he has agreed to a pay off.

[Hibbyradge]

Again you are assuming he has agreed to a pay off.

In January, the Hibs Observer reported that "His deal was due to expire in the summer but an agreement has been reached to allow the Irishman to leave this month and 'explore the next steps of his career'".

[BoomtownHibees]

Again you are assuming he has agreed to a pay off.

He would have to agree to it for it to happen surely?

[matty_f]

Unless it's a no win no fee scenario then why wouldn't they take the case, they'd be getting paid even if they lost. My experience of soliciters/lawyers is that they only refuse cases if the case could burden them with reputational damage - like everyone else they need to make money.

Because they have duty of care to their client as well, and to limit the cost. Proceeding with a case that’s more likely to lose than win will give them a payday now but the bad advice will prevent repeat custom.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He would have to agree to it for it to happen surely?

He did agree to it.

[matty_f]

Would be interesting to see how he/his lawyers demonstrate that his career has been derailed, when he continued to (rightly) be paid by Hibs during this period time, and agreed to mutual parting of the ways, which would imply he’d been given a payoff to leave early. There really isn’t a way to prove he’d have been offered another contract at Hibs, or anyone else of a similar or higher level.

I think the only realistic way that they could demonstrate that would be to show concrete evidence of interest at a higher level than he’s at now that didn’t materialise because of the injury. Other than that - how do you prove it? Loads of players have left Hibs to go to a much lower level with no injury history.

[BoomtownHibees]

He did agree to it.

I know. Just not sure how Brightside thought it would have happened otherwise

[worcesterhibby]

Whether JDH is “within his rights” or not, it’s stinks in my opinion. He was a limited footballer that got an accidental injury in training. Hibs paid for his medical treatment and paid his salary throughout. To then try to take us to court for compensation is an unwarranted cash grab. I previously thought of him as a guy who tried hard and scored a couple of great goals for us. I now think he’s a back stabbing, ungrateful little gold digger.

JDH GTF

[WestStandWillie]

Whether JDH is “within his rights” or not, it’s stinks in my opinion. He was a limited footballer that got an accidental injury in training. Hibs paid for his medical treatment and paid his salary throughout. To then try to take us to court for compensation is an unwarranted cash grab. I previously thought of him as a guy who tried hard and scored a couple of great goals for us. I now think he’s a back stabbing, ungrateful little gold digger.

JDH GTF

This.

His legal team are suggesting his career is all but over, wonder what Sligo think to that?

Wish him all the worst luck in the world for pulling this stunt.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No wonder JDH couldn't nail down a first team place if he couldn't even dodge a tackle from a half pissed out of shape 40 year old.

:duck:

Only 1 person has said pissed - the lawyer said incoherent which doesn’t mean drunk. He wasn’t drunk when he was talking about lions etc, just incoherent.

[Brightside]

He would have to agree to it for it to happen surely?

Nothing in the report said he got paid off. Just agreement that he would leave. Unless I missed that.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Nothing in the report said he got paid off. Just agreement that he would leave. Unless I missed that.

Maybe that’s the money he’s chasing then.

[Brightside]

Maybe that’s the money he’s chasing then.

Like a lion.

[Hibees1973]

My thoughts are with the managers who had JDH lingering around the club after Johnson left.

It must have been very awkward and difficult at times for Montgomery and Gray now, with this elephant in the room. The stance JDH has taken it's likely he voiced his displeasure with other players, which would not have helped with team morale.

I'll add a bit more conjecture to the debate. It does seem we have had some 'characters' at the club in recent years. JDH, Kenneh, Bojang to name just a few. Although not proven, there are others I could mention, mostly from rumours on here and other Hibs supporters I know. I understand this is rumour but there cannot be this much smoke without fire. MacKay has said as well that some players were given opportunities to leave and get more playing time but chose to stay. It is their prerogative, but it will not have helped Gray.

Gray has said in the last couple of days he has rarely known such a good chemistry in the squad. Thankfully, results in the last six months of the season has shown Gray to be correct.

[Hibbyradge]

Nothing in the report said he got paid off. Just agreement that he would leave. Unless I missed that.

Oh come on.

He had 6 months left on his contract. Of course he was paid off.

[Brightside]

Oh come on.

He had 6 months left on his contract. Of course he was paid off.

Or he left so he could play again? At the moment the pay off appears to be an assumption. According to some he was stealing a wage so it’s odd that he didn’t just continue doing that.

[Hibbyradge]

Or he left so he could play again? At the moment the pay off appears to be an assumption. According to some he was stealing a wage so it’s odd that he didn’t just continue doing that.

It's not odd. He was paid off.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Or he left so he could play again? At the moment the pay off appears to be an assumption. According to some he was stealing a wage so it’s odd that he didn’t just continue doing that.

Are you suggesting they sacked him?

[Trinity Hibee]

Or he left so he could play again? At the moment the pay off appears to be an assumption. According to some he was stealing a wage so it’s odd that he didn’t just continue doing that.

If he left without a pay off, which I doubt happened, then he would have had to agree to it.

I’m not really sure where you are going with all of this

[Brightside]

Are you suggesting they sacked him?

No. I’m just suggesting that there is an awful lot of assumptions in this thread. Including a new one that he was a bad apple along with Kenneh and Bojang. Maybe the bad apples were the management staff. Who knows eh.

[Danderhall Hibs]

No. I’m just suggesting that there is an awful lot of assumptions in this thread. Including a new one that he was a bad apple along with Kenneh and Bojang. Maybe the bad apples were the management staff. Who knows eh.

Yeah there’s lots of stuff flying around.

[Lago]

Or he left so he could play again? At the moment the pay off appears to be an assumption. According to some he was stealing a wage so it’s odd that he didn’t just continue doing that.
Oh come on your not that nieve.

[Pretty Boy]

If he left without a pay off, which I doubt happened, then he would have had to agree to it.

I’m not really sure where you are going with all of this

Agreeing to it doesn't necessarily mean he was paid off.

He could have said to Hibs that Sligo were interested but couldn't afford a fee so Hibs agreed to release him from his contract so he could sign for them, get a bit security going forward and play again. An old fashioned free transfer if you like.

Similar happened when we signed Darren McGregor. Rangers wanted him to go to Dundee or St Johnstone, he said no, they asked where he wanted to go, he said Hibs, they said we can't sell you to Hibs right now so he agreed to be released from his contract and signed for Hibs as a free agent a couple of days later. I doubt Rangers paid up his contract in such a scenario.

Of course as you say JDH would have had to agree to all that but that doesn't seem to be his case. It's that without the injury his earning potential was higher than Sligo Rovers.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Agreeing to it doesn't necessarily mean he was paid off.

He could have said to Hibs that Sligo were interested but couldn't afford a fee so Hibs agreed to release him from his contract so he could sign for them, get a bit security going forward and play again. An old fashioned free transfer if you like.

Similar happened when we signed Darren McGregor. Rangers wanted him to go to Dundee or St Johnstone, he said no, they asked where he wanted to go, he said Hibs, they said we can't sell you to Hibs right now so he agreed to be released from his contract and signed for Hibs as a free agent a couple of days later. I doubt Rangers paid up his contract in such a scenario.

Of course as you say JDH would have had to agree to all that but that doesn't seem to be his case. It's that without the injury his earning potential was higher than Sligo Rovers.

On your last paragraph, let’s be honest, it wasn’t. He is, and always has been, pish. It wasn’t the injury that done that to him.

[PiemanP]

We should sue him for 4 years of wasted wages with no product. Petty and pathetic.

I’d say I hope he comes back to Easter Road some day in opposition, but he’s not good enough to ever be part of a team we compete with.

[Hibbyradge]

On your last paragraph, let’s be honest, it wasn’t. He is, and always has been, pish. It wasn’t the injury that done that to him.

It's subjective though.

While I wasn't impressed by him, he can argue that his career was on an upwards trajectory before he was injured.

Aston Villa, Cheltenham Town and Cambridge United followed by St Mirren then Hibs.

Whether or not we agree, that's an argument.

[Hibs4185]

A few things, maybe the club should have included a no fault type clause in his payoff? Hindsight I suppose.

Also being able to sue for an injury training is opening a huge can of worms. Sets a dangerous precedent when there are these types of risk associated with your job on a daily basis.

Do players not have insurance for this type of thing? I’d def have my legs and stuff insured if I my career depended on it.

[Wilson]

A few things, maybe the club should have included a no fault type clause in his payoff? Hindsight I suppose.

Also being able to sue for an injury training is opening a huge can of worms. Sets a dangerous precedent when there are these types of risk associated with your job on a daily basis.

Do players not have insurance for this type of thing? I’d def have my legs and stuff insured if I my career depended on it.

Certainly would be unfortunate to get your stuff injured.

[ian cruise]

A few things, maybe the club should have included a no fault type clause in his payoff? Hindsight I suppose.

Also being able to sue for an injury training is opening a huge can of worms. Sets a dangerous precedent when there are these types of risk associated with your job on a daily basis.

Do players not have insurance for this type of thing? I’d def have my legs and stuff insured if I my career depended on it.

I'd imagine the insurance is for career ending, so if he's continuing to play on with Sligo then that's no use. It would be there to cover wages you'd have been able to earn had you been able to continue playing.

Similarly if he's being paid by Hibs while injured, no need to claim for insurance as there's no lost earnings.

Case seems to be focused on the injury affecting his ability to earn a higher wage than he is commanding now. We'll see what the evidence is and how he gets on.

[McD]

I think the only realistic way that they could demonstrate that would be to show concrete evidence of interest at a higher level than he’s at now that didn’t materialise because of the injury. Other than that - how do you prove it? Loads of players have left Hibs to go to a much lower level with no injury history.


Exactly, unless he can show that a team tried to sign him from Hibs prior to the injury (as he is claiming the injury derailed his career), there’s not much they can do to prove he would have went on to a more lucrative career.

[Donegal Hibby]

Exactly, unless he can show that a team tried to sign him from Hibs prior to the injury (as he is claiming the injury derailed his career), there’s not much they can do to prove he would have went on to a more lucrative career.

Didn’t he not turn down a chance to join Forrest Green ? Don’t remember when that was , I’m presuming before his injury.

[Unseen work]

Wait, JDH thinks he would have played at a better level? Or even similar level?

He was out for what one year on and off? Came back for short spells and then back out. And it was a historic injury discovered as a result from Johnson?

If JDH was as good as he thinks, he would still have got another SPFL club - see Kyle Magennis for example

[McD]

Didn’t he not turn down a chance to join Forrest Green ? Don’t remember when that was , I’m presuming before his injury.


I think that was after. Could be wrong but I think it was a January window, either still under LJ or Monty (could be totally wrong through :greengrin)

[Paulie Walnuts]

Didn’t he not turn down a chance to join Forrest Green ? Don’t remember when that was , I’m presuming before his injury.

It was after this incident.

[Hibiza]

A really low / rotten thing to do
.

[BILLYHIBS]

Just been on Reporting Scotland his issue is the LJ tackle and the club are aware of it

In other news …….

[Billy Whizz]

Starts tonight for Sligo

[Smartie]

Didn’t he not turn down a chance to join Forrest Green ? Don’t remember when that was , I’m presuming before his injury.

Shame that he did.

We could have called him the vegan Brian Kerr.

[Eyrie]

Doyle-Hayes' solicitors will be hoping that Hibs insurers decide it's cheaper to pay out than fight the case.

But if Hibs gave him the appropriate medical care then I can't see how Hibs are liable. Plenty of other managers and coaches join in sessions at times so Hibs can't be considered negligent for not banning Johnson from doing so. As regards loss of earnings, Hibs honoured his contract when Doyle-Hayes was out for a very long time. Any loss of post-Hibs earnings is very speculative and would require Doyle-Hayes to demonstrate sufficient interest in signing him from Hibs before he got the injury. There are plenty of players who leave Hibs and get less money on their next deal from clubs on a level with Sligo Rovers. Maybe they should sue Hibs for not improving them enough?

[eastmainsmsh]

Surely his claim should be against LJ?

[Jock O]

Given his previous statement it sounds awful like he has had an ambulance chasing type lawyer say lets chance this and see what we get.

All a bit bizarre, surely this could be a case anytime anyone gets an injury, if it is primarily about his loss of earnings. Either that or there is more to it than is in public knowledge to date.

[makaveli1875]

It matters to Digby Brown

[Hibiza]

It matters to Digby Brown

😀😀😀

[Paulie Walnuts]

Doyle-Hayes' solicitors will be hoping that Hibs insurers decide it's cheaper to pay out than fight the case.

But if Hibs gave him the appropriate medical care then I can't see how Hibs are liable. Plenty of other managers and coaches join in sessions at times so Hibs can't be considered negligent for not banning Johnson from doing so. As regards loss of earnings, Hibs honoured his contract when Doyle-Hayes was out for a very long time. Any loss of post-Hibs earnings is very speculative and would require Doyle-Hayes to demonstrate sufficient interest in signing him from Hibs before he got the injury. There are plenty of players who leave Hibs and get less money on their next deal from clubs on a level with Sligo Rovers. Maybe they should sue Hibs for not improving them enough?

And on top of that, he had the opportunity to go to Forest Green (League One at the time) AFTER the injury and he turned it down whilst Hibs accepted the deal.

His career trajectory is entirely of his making with a mix of bad decisions such as turning down FGR and being ****ing guff.

If this goes the whole hog he will win **** all. He’ll be hoping to get a ‘we can’t be arsed with the hassle’ payment from Hibs.

[B.H.F.C]

Forgetting the legal case, I still can’t work out why he was brought on in the first derby this season, for his only appearance of the season. The most random substitution I’ve ever seen!

[Lago]

Just been on Reporting Scotland his issue is the LJ tackle and the club are aware of it

In other news …….
Yes it appears to be all about that Infamous tackle.

[Bamba]

Surely his claim should be against LJ?

You'd think so but his lawyers have probably instructed him that he'll be able to claim more out of Hibs and they're more likely to settle.

We should countersue him for impersonating a footballer.

[Paul1642]

And on top of that, he had the opportunity to go to Forest Green (League One at the time) AFTER the injury and he turned it down whilst Hibs accepted the deal.

His career trajectory is entirely of his making with a mix of bad decisions such as turning down FGR and being ****ing guff.

If this goes the whole hog he will win **** all. He’ll be hoping to get a ‘we can’t be arsed with the hassle’ payment from Hibs.

He was out for a length of time not dissimilar to what most players face at some point in the careers. Some bounce back, some don’t.

Like you say, he was deemed fit enough for a move to Forrest Green and turned it down. We deemed him fit enough (maybe proving a point knowing this was in the pipeline?) to play him before his release. He’s now fit enough to play in Ireland. The injury has had no more effect on him than the thousands of other players injured every year and I’ve genuinely never heard of legal action like this before. If he wins, where do you draw the line?

Alex Harris suing Motherwell? His career went rapidly off its projected path and never recovered.

Bowie suing the SFA? He could have been the leagues top scorer for all we know and on his way to Celtic this summer.

Mateta for being outright assaulted against Millwall?

Sure, these three were injured in games rather than training but JDH is far from the first to be injured on the training ground.

JDH is back to fitness and playing for Siglo Rovers. If he was good enough to be playing elsewhere then he would be, previous injury or not.

I hope Hibs fight this all the way, and suspect they will.

[ehf]

We’ll end up paying £200k - £300k to settle this; added to the £250k we pished away on McAllister’s son, that’s at least half a million that clown Johnson has cost us.

[eastmainsmsh]

We’ll end up paying £200k - £300k to settle this; added to the £250k we pished away on McAllister’s son, that’s at least half a million that clown Johnson has cost us.

He had all the patter and excuses

[Billy Bunter 07]

Starts tonight for Sligo

Hope they got ridden

[Baader]

Smacks of a desperate cash grab. Would like to see how his lawyers argue he could've played at a higher level than he currently is were it not for this incident given that he played for us after it and is still training and playing.

Never liked JDH, thought him an extremely limited footballer who shouldn't have been anywhere near Hibs. Wish that were the case and hope the club stand up and fight this.

[bordergreen]

A really low / rotten thing to do
.

Agree. Limited footballer, sour grapes. He is at Sligo and won't get better because that is his level, not because he got a HORRIFIC injury in a tackle in training. I was responsible for Health & Safety for a large organisation for many years, you wouldn't believe some of the claims people submitted. Most of the time they would get pay outs, even though it was obvious they were at it. I hope he gets hee haw and has to pay the costs!

[andrew70]

And on top of that, he had the opportunity to go to Forest Green (League One at the time) AFTER the injury and he turned it down whilst Hibs accepted the deal.

His career trajectory is entirely of his making with a mix of bad decisions such as turning down FGR and being ****ing guff.

If this goes the whole hog he will win **** all. He’ll be hoping to get a ‘we can’t be arsed with the hassle’ payment from Hibs.

Some amount of poor “information” on this thread.

I hope he gets what he wants.

The PFA will know what they are doing.

[Trinity Hibee]

A wee nobby ******* who is trying to milk a **** career for what it’s not worth.

The streets will forget and he will never be remembered.

[Lago]

Aye but, if there a case to be answered, it should be answered.
Don’t have a problem with it at all, if something was done wrong that he should be compensated for, he should be compensated.
Equally, if Hibs are not in the wrong then he has at least had his right for the matter to be discussed.
Exactly right, his football ability is not the issue.

[Eyrie]

Aye but, if there a case to be answered, it should be answered.
Don’t have a problem with it at all, if something was done wrong that he should be compensated for, he should be compensated.
Equally, if Hibs are not in the wrong then he has at least had his right for the matter to be discussed.

Could be an interesting precedent set by this case.

Every time a player is injured then there would be grounds to sue the player responsible

- the injured player could sue for lost appearance money or bonuses whilst out
- clubs would sue for the wages they're paying to someone who is unavailable or, if the club is insured, their insurers would sue to cover their pay out
- clubs could sue for lost earnings because the unavailable player could have helped them progress in the cup or finish higher up the league

All with the same validity that Doyle-Hayes has for claiming he has lost out.

[Eyrie]

Exactly right, his football ability is not the issue.

It is if he's claiming that "his career would have continued at a higher level" but for the injury.

Based on what we saw of him playing for us, his next move was almost certainly at a lower level.

[matty_f]

Could be an interesting precedent set by this case.

Every time a player is injured then there would be grounds to sue the player responsible

- the injured player could sue for lost appearance money or bonuses whilst out
- clubs would sue for the wages they're paying to someone who is unavailable or, if the club is insured, their insurers would sue to cover their pay out
- clubs could sue for lost earnings because the unavailable player could have helped them progress in the cup or finish higher up the league

All with the same validity that Doyle-Hayes has for claiming he has lost out.
It’s different because injuries are part and parcel of professional sport, when players compete, their job puts them at risk of injury.

In training, in the normal course of events the same rules apply. Where this is different, is that Johnson put himself in the session despite not being of a high enough standard of fitness and (presumably) skill to do so without putting the players at risk of something like a badly mistimed or misjudged tackle.

That’s a very specific scenario, so it might open clubs up to similar cases but not for players picking up injuries in the course of doing their job where all reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury.

[neil7908]

Surely his claim should be against LJ?

But we employed LJ and he was acting in his capacity as a Hibs employee at the time.

[Baader]

It’s different because injuries are part and parcel of professional sport, when players compete, their job puts them at risk of injury.

In training, in the normal course of events the same rules apply. Where this is different, is that Johnson put himself in the session despite not being of a high enough standard of fitness and (presumably) skill to do so without putting the players at risk of something like a badly mistimed or misjudged tackle.

That’s a very specific scenario, so it might open clubs up to similar cases but not for players picking up injuries in the course of doing their job where all reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury.

'Skill' and 'fitness' won't matter. You could level that at every player currently playing professional football. Many young players won't realistically have the comparable skill or fitness when they train with the first team. Could be argued the plaintiff wasn't exactly 'skillful' nor often 'fit' for selection before the incident and Lee Johnson was 41 at the time of what Doyle-Hayes' representatives are describing as a "horrific injury." They need to prove that something during his time at Hibs occurred resulting in him not being able to play at a "higher level" than he is currently at.

[matty_f]

'Skill' and 'fitness' won't matter. You could level that at every player currently playing professional football. Many young players won't realistically have the comparable skill or fitness when they train with the first team. Could be argued the plaintiff wasn't exactly 'skillful' nor often 'fit' for selection before the incident and Lee Johnson was 41 at the time of what Doyle-Hayes' representatives are describing as a "horrific injury." They need to prove that something during his time at Hibs occurred resulting in him not being able to play at a "higher level" than he is currently at.

It will/can come into it. The youth players don’t go in with the first team until they’re capable of playing with them, for their own safety as much as anything.
Lee Johnson arguably had no place being in that session but by placing himself in it he’s endangered his players and ultimately ended up injuring one of them.

The difference in skill level between players that compete is a necessary risk on the sport but it is mitigated by a requirement to have them coached by suitably trained staff and by a system (the league) that requires teams to sign players at or close to the level required. Injuries in sport are an accepted risk, the club’s duty of care to the players in that regard is to make sure that they’re trained and conditioned properly.

On the training pitch you have more control over the risk and a higher duty of care as a result, putting out of shape managers in positions where they’re tackling players is not a necessary risk and is arguably negligent.

[SunshineOnLeith]

We’ll end up paying £200k - £300k to settle this; added to the £250k we pished away on McAllister’s son, that’s at least half a million that clown Johnson has cost us.

This won't cost Hibs anything - we'll have insurance.

[McD]

Some amount of poor “information” on this thread.

I hope he gets what he wants.

The PFA will know what they are doing.



Are the PFA involved?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Some amount of poor “information” on this thread.

I hope he gets what he wants.

The PFA will know what they are doing.

What part of that is incorrect?

Hibs accepted an offer. He turned it down. That’s entirely his problem, nobody else’s.

I hope, and fully expect, he’ll get **** all. It’s an embarrassing cash grab from a dreadful player.

[Fifeshirehibs]

The immunity these lawyers get when pleading or advising pee eye ess itch is crazy. Can't wait for Tamsons to argue that Aston Villa realised their mistake and were about to bid millions for jdh and beat the mighty Forest Green Rovers to bring jdh back.

[Hibees1973]

This won't cost Hibs anything - we'll have insurance.

If that's the case then, all Hibs will be required to do is to provide evidence to the insurance company how Johnson 'injured' JDH.

Will it not then be our insurance company who will decide to either negotiate a pay off for JDH or take it to court.

We will have little say, or none at all on what happens between our insurers and the JDH legal team.

[andrew70]

What part of that is incorrect?

Hibs accepted an offer. He turned it down. That’s entirely his problem, nobody else’s.

I hope, and fully expect, he’ll get **** all. It’s an embarrassing cash grab from a dreadful player.

That’s what you believe.

They actively stood in his way though. Strange way to conduct themselves.

There’s also the fact that there has been huge changes at football and business level in the aftermath of all this but yes it’s all JDH’s fault.

Good luck to him.

[JimBHibees]

I’m not making any judgement on whether he’ll by successful with it, and it’s not overthinking to know what you’re talking about.
His solicitors clearly think he’s got a better than 50/50 chance of winning otherwise they wouldn’t be taking the case.

I would assume there will be many cases when lawyers accept a case when they think the chances are significantly less than 50/50. This one they will be banking on Hibs not wanting to go to court and negotiating a compromise

[SunshineOnLeith]

If that's the case then, all Hibs will be required to do is to provide evidence to the insurance company how Johnson 'injured' JDH.

Will it not then be our insurance company who will decide to either negotiate a pay off for JDH or take it to court.

We will have little say, or none at all on what happens between our insurers and the JDH legal team.

Yup, case will appear on the court rolls as JDH v Hibs but ultimately it's the insurance company running things/deciding if, when and how much to settle it for.

[andrew70]

Are the PFA involved?

Yes.

With one or two others as well I believe.

[Jamesie]

Surely his claim should be against LJ?

An employer generally, in most cases, has vicarious liability for the actions of its employee. So no need to pursue LJ.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That’s what you believe.

They actively stood in his way though. Strange way to conduct themselves.

There’s also the fact that there has been huge changes at football and business level in the aftermath of all this but yes it’s all JDH’s fault.

Good luck to him.

No, it’s not what I believe, it’s what happened. The club wanted him gone, he didn’t want to go.

**** him.

[andrew70]

No, it’s not what I believe, it’s what happened. The club wanted him gone, he didn’t want to go.

**** him.

We’ll soon see.