Focus on Referees

[CentreLine]

Two more clear and obvious errors tonight in the Motherwell v Killie game. The SFA must be holding their collective head in their hands. Impossibly bad decisions and these are the ones that can ultimately cost people their livelihood.

It is clear that fewer than ever numbers of people are coming forward to qualify as referees and there has to be a bit of balance in criticism but, for goodness sake, VAR has to see Halliday is the offender in the Motherwell box and that handbags moment was barely worth the referee getting involved.
After all the, media supported, frenzy about the the rangers not getting a penalty at the weekend you’d have thought the referee and VAR in particular would have been right on it this weekend.

Time for professional referees IMHO

[CentreLine]

Apologies Admins, didn’t see the VAR thread coming up on this. Please consider merging.

[JohnM1875]

Two more clear and obvious errors tonight in the Motherwell v Killie game. The SFA must be holding their collective head in their hands. Impossibly bad decisions and these are the ones that can ultimately cost people their livelihood.

It is clear that fewer than ever numbers of people are coming forward to qualify as referees and there has to be a bit of balance in criticism but, for goodness sake, VAR has to see Halliday is the offender in the Motherwell box and that handbags moment was barely worth the referee getting involved.
After all the media supported, frenzy about the the rangers not getting a penalty at the weekend you’d have thought the referee and VAR in particular would have been right on it this weekend.

Time for professional referees IMHO

It's getting embarrassing.

I know not everyone (very few?) are fans of VAR. But it's supposed to be there to help the refs. And I think around Europe it does that for the most part. All it's highlighting in our league though is how bad the standard of refereeing is.

I know we all laugh at and it’s hilarious the huns didn't get the pen in the final, but again, all it showed was the VAR refs don't even understand the laws of the game!!

What chance have we got?

[Chorley Hibee]

Let's see if the officials involved tonight are subject to the same punishment that two of the officials who didn't award the Huns a penalty were.

I bet you they aren't.

[HoboHarry]

Two more clear and obvious errors tonight in the Motherwell v Killie game. The SFA must be holding their collective head in their hands. Impossibly bad decisions and these are the ones that can ultimately cost people their livelihood.

It is clear that fewer than ever numbers of people are coming forward to qualify as referees and there has to be a bit of balance in criticism but, for goodness sake, VAR has to see Halliday is the offender in the Motherwell box and that handbags moment was barely worth the referee getting involved.
After all the, media supported, frenzy about the the rangers not getting a penalty at the weekend you’d have thought the referee and VAR in particular would have been right on it this weekend.

Time for professional referees IMHO
Making referees professional isnt going to make them world cup standard, its still the same personnel. The bigger issue is that most of our referees come from the same area and they ignore the rest of Scotland. Im willing to bet there are plenty of talented referees from the non Glasgow and Lanarkshire areas.

[B.H.F.C]

Let's see if the officials involved tonight are subject to the same punishment that two of the officials who didn't award the Huns a penalty were.

I bet you they aren't.

I expect them to be immediately stood down and publicly condemned in the next couple of days. Oh, wait…..

[green day]

Making referees professional isnt going to make them world cup standard, its still the same personnel. The bigger issue is that most of our referees come from the same area and they ignore the rest of Scotland. Im willing to bet there are plenty of talented referees from the non Glasgow and Lanarkshire areas.

I remember a few years back Off the Ball had one of the top ex refs on, and I emailed in to make that very point.

The ex ref batted it away by saying it was "nonsense" and that there are "qualified referees in the SFA pool from all over Scotland".

Which is true...........but those refs from other areas were generally only ever given lower level matches, or - at best - allowed to run the line at premiership level.

It was a clever answer, and didnt actually address what I had asked - specifically the lack of refs being appointed to premiership matches from outside of Glasgow and Lanarkshire associations.

Whats laughable, of course, is that we can all point to some refs (like the one last night) who regularly ref at this level, but are demonstrably crap. They will say that there is a lack of experienced whistlers, but if a ref from - say - Aberdeen, isnt given matches at Championship level, then clearly they will never be ready for the Premiership.

The SFA refereeing situation is akin to the Masons for me - a closed shop.

[CentreLine]

Making referees professional isnt going to make them world cup standard, its still the same personnel. The bigger issue is that most of our referees come from the same area and they ignore the rest of Scotland. Im willing to bet there are plenty of talented referees from the non Glasgow and Lanarkshire areas.

I agree, to an extent but creating a professional environment is likely to encourage more people to consider the role and levels of training and CPD would have to improve without the distractions of their various day jobs. It may not happen overnight but can only improve things. There is always going to be human error. For example, EPL referee make mistakes but they do seem significantly less frequent and their VAR facilities and use thereof seem way ahead of us.

[Northernhibee]

Making referees professional isnt going to make them world cup standard, its still the same personnel. The bigger issue is that most of our referees come from the same area and they ignore the rest of Scotland. Im willing to bet there are plenty of talented referees from the non Glasgow and Lanarkshire areas.

It would in a normal country mean that they could be held accountable - if refereeing is a side hustle to bring in some more money, if they were to be suspended for a couple of weeks it’s no big deal. The pressure to get things right would be greater if that was their main source of income.

However it feels like the whole of Scottish football is run by Glasgow, for Glasgow. The debacle of the league cup final in 2021 when Celtic were given more than 50% of the tickets for a neutral game when we’ve shown we can sell out half of Hampden for a cup final, top flight referees almost always from Glasgow and surrounding areas, the things OF fans get away with, the voting system (and for that reason alone Aberdeen can continue to go Rodger themselves to this day) - even if they were to go full time I still think we’d be watching the review shows on refereeing decisions and be hearing mental gymnastics to justify the shockingly imbalanced decisions we see on a regular basis.

It’s a crying shame that the women’s game up here has turned into the Glasgow show as for a while it was an exciting league.

[JimBHibees]

I remember a few years back Off the Ball had one of the top ex refs on, and I emailed in to make that very point.

The ex ref batted it away by saying it was "nonsense" and that there are "qualified referees in the SFA pool from all over Scotland".

Which is true...........but those refs from other areas were generally only ever given lower level matches, or - at best - allowed to run the line at premiership level.

It was a clever answer, and didnt actually address what I had asked - specifically the lack of refs being appointed to premiership matches from outside of Glasgow and Lanarkshire associations.

Whats laughable, of course, is that we can all point to some refs (like the one last night) who regularly ref at this level, but are demonstrably crap. They will say that there is a lack of experienced whistlers, but if a ref from - say - Aberdeen, isnt given matches at Championship level, then clearly they will never be ready for the Premiership.

The SFA refereeing situation is akin to the Masons for me - a closed shop.

Exactly what it is. An answer suggesting there are top level refs from all over the country isn’t the same as which referee associations provide pretty much all the officials who referee the top level games

[JimBHibees]

It would in a normal country mean that they could be held accountable - if refereeing is a side hustle to bring in some more money, if they were to be suspended for a couple of weeks it’s no big deal. The pressure to get things right would be greater if that was their main source of income.

However it feels like the whole of Scottish football is run by Glasgow, for Glasgow. The debacle of the league cup final in 2021 when Celtic were given more than 50% of the tickets for a neutral game when we’ve shown we can sell out half of Hampden for a cup final, top flight referees almost always from Glasgow and surrounding areas, the things OF fans get away with, the voting system (and for that reason alone Aberdeen can continue to go Rodger themselves to this day) - even if they were to go full time I still think we’d be watching the review shows on refereeing decisions and be hearing mental gymnastics to justify the shockingly imbalanced decisions we see on a regular basis.

It’s a crying shame that the women’s game up here has turned into the Glasgow show as for a while it was an exciting league.

The key statistic to prove your point is that in the first one hundred years of the Scottish cup finals only one was referred by a ref from Edinburgh

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/16114571.investigation-referees-blow-whistle-unrest/

[Northernhibee]

The key statistic to prove your point is that in the first one hundred years of the Scottish cup finals only one was referred by a ref from Edinburgh

Paul McGinn was reserved when he called the refereeing that night “inept”. When we scored, Celtic fans set off pyros. The start of the old firm final recently was delayed due to reduced visibility - whereas we were expected to defend in a smokescreen created entirely by opposition fans. That annoyed me as much as the refereeing for the second goal - a substitute is flagged for by the fourth official and the referee lets Celtic ignore it and do their quick free kick instead.

Then there was the blatant penalty kick in injury time we didn’t get.

Nobody can tell me that the game up here isn’t just WWE when it comes to a non OF team playing one of the two arsecheeks.

[GreenCastle]

The decision last night was just another incompetent error with zero consequences for the officials. They will probably get a promotion after that.

What I would like to be transparent is how refs are allocated and by who.

Certain refs just don’t get Rangers or Celtic games - what does that tell you?

The explaining of decisions is an interesting one but actually would rather just prefer VAR audio and replays to be widely available at games to be clear to all.

[BoomtownHibees]

VAR actually done its job correctly for the sending off last night, asking the ref to review his initial decision of a red card. Unbelievably (maybe no) the ref decided to stick to his original decision

[CentreLine]

VAR actually done its job correctly for the sending off last night, asking the ref to review his initial decision of a red card. Unbelievably (maybe no) the ref decided to stick to his original decision

Bang on. Sadly, of the two major decisions, VAR only scored 50%
The foul to Motherwell v pen to Kilmarnock was extraordinary. It’s so difficult for officials, in real time, with players play acting all over the place. Halliday gets 10/10 for disgusting his blatant foul but it’s VARs job to see and correct that.

[easty]

Two more clear and obvious errors tonight in the Motherwell v Killie game. The SFA must be holding their collective head in their hands. Impossibly bad decisions and these are the ones that can ultimately cost people their livelihood.

It is clear that fewer than ever numbers of people are coming forward to qualify as referees and there has to be a bit of balance in criticism but, for goodness sake, VAR has to see Halliday is the offender in the Motherwell box and that handbags moment was barely worth the referee getting involved.
After all the, media supported, frenzy about the the rangers not getting a penalty at the weekend you’d have thought the referee and VAR in particular would have been right on it this weekend.

Time for professional referees IMHO

You’d have the same referee team, but you’d be paying them more as “professional refs”, they’d still be just as *****

I’ve never seen an argument that convinced me that making refs professional would improve anything, at all.

[easty]

It would in a normal country mean that they could be held accountable - if refereeing is a side hustle to bring in some more money, if they were to be suspended for a couple of weeks it’s no big deal. The pressure to get things right would be greater if that was their main source of income.

However it feels like the whole of Scottish football is run by Glasgow, for Glasgow. The debacle of the league cup final in 2021 when Celtic were given more than 50% of the tickets for a neutral game when we’ve shown we can sell out half of Hampden for a cup final, top flight referees almost always from Glasgow and surrounding areas, the things OF fans get away with, the voting system (and for that reason alone Aberdeen can continue to go Rodger themselves to this day) - even if they were to go full time I still think we’d be watching the review shows on refereeing decisions and be hearing mental gymnastics to justify the shockingly imbalanced decisions we see on a regular basis.

It’s a crying shame that the women’s game up here has turned into the Glasgow show as for a while it was an exciting league.

What pressure of getting things wrong?

They get things wrong all the time and nowt happens.

[easty]

Refs in English Championship are professional and the standard there looks crap.

SPL refs make plenty money.

[Albert Kidd 86’]

admittedly this is from the bbc website, quoting the Sun who are quoting Kris Boyd and a more twisted, bitter and biased trio you could never find!

But anyway, it’s funny on so many levels.

“Scottish FA chief executive Ian Maxwell didn't seem to grasp the importance of the non-award of a Rangers penalty in last weekend's League Cup final, says ex-Ibrox striker Kris Boyd. (Scottish Sun) (https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/14049883/sfa-chuckle-brothers-rangers-var-howler-joke-kris-boyd/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ScottishSunSportTwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1734733757)”

[StevieT]

Part of the problem we have in Scottish Football is that we do mot have enough referees operating at the highest level. You could discuss the reasons for this until this time next year but facts are facts.

What this means in reality is that we have underqualified referees managing the VAR system. What does this mean in reality? We have referees, not deemed as proficient enough to referee at the top level managing VAR. These guys aren't used to the pace of the game at the top level, the intesity the game is played at, nor how street wise the players are. Add to this the fact that specialist referees (assistant referees or linesmen to us) are also used (Frank Connor) being a prime example. These guys don't even referee at lower levels, they run the line at all games.

It might be worth looking at who the VAR and AVAR are over the next few weeks and see what level they would normally be working at.

[Pete70]

Are they not already professional? They get paid a lot of money to ref matches. The problem is they’re part time and have other ‘day jobs’.

They should be full time and committed to being refs. They can carry on another career when they hang up their whistle.

[weecounty hibby]

I'd love not to be professional and get £750 when i turned up to my work. 2 x games per week sometimes. 38 games per season x 750 = £28,500. They ****ing well should be good enough at their part time jobs for that kind of money. It's amazing how it's only when the hun are on the wrong end of a decision that this comes up. Let's see what happens to the clown who was refereeing two "diddy" teams last night.

[EdinMike]

Paul McGinn was reserved when he called the refereeing that night “inept”. When we scored, Celtic fans set off pyros. The start of the old firm final recently was delayed due to reduced visibility - whereas we were expected to defend in a smokescreen created entirely by opposition fans. That annoyed me as much as the refereeing for the second goal - a substitute is flagged for by the fourth official and the referee lets Celtic ignore it and do their quick free kick instead.

Then there was the blatant penalty kick in injury time we didn’t get.

Nobody can tell me that the game up here isn’t just WWE when it comes to a non OF team playing one of the two arsecheeks.

Honestly, Paul shot up in my respect with his reaction that day and will honestly hold that respect for it.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

They can't get the simple things right never mind the big calls

Letting the game flow and playing n advantage are such obvious errors we see every single week from these incompetent ****. They only want to apply rules as they appear on paper and have a real lack of understanding of the game imo. That gets fans backs up then they allow their ego to take over and want to be centre of attention

You could see and hear Mikey Stewart even the managers berating the officials for there lack of flow to the game. So frustrating for viewers

[easty]

I'd love not to be professional and get £750 when i turned up to my work. 2 x games per week sometimes. 38 games per season x 750 = £28,500. They ****ing well should be good enough at their part time jobs for that kind of money. It's amazing how it's only when the hun are on the wrong end of a decision that this comes up. Let's see what happens to the clown who was refereeing two "diddy" teams last night.

Isn’t it £900 a ref gets?

[JimBHibees]

Isn’t it £900 a ref gets?

Thought it was over a grand a game

[weecounty hibby]

Couldn't be bothered to look it up, last number I knew was 750 per game. If its 900 or over 1000 then even worse

[A Hi-Bee]

Two more clear and obvious errors tonight in the Motherwell v Killie game. The SFA must be holding their collective head in their hands. Impossibly bad decisions and these are the ones that can ultimately cost people their livelihood.

It is clear that fewer than ever numbers of people are coming forward to qualify as referees and there has to be a bit of balance in criticism but, for goodness sake, VAR has to see Halliday is the offender in the Motherwell box and that handbags moment was barely worth the referee getting involved.
After all the, media supported, frenzy about the the rangers not getting a penalty at the weekend you’d have thought the referee and VAR in particular would have been right on it this weekend.

Time for professional referees IMHO

All loaded up with hunnery what do you expect been same way for ever.

[GreenCastle]

BBC radio Scotland right now discussing refs.

Still feel they are missing the point and the operation and consistency needs improved with more transparency.

[Kato]

BBC radio Scotland right now discussing refs.

Still feel they are missing the point and the operation and consistency needs improved with more transparency.Something goes against Hibs? Barely spoken about or forgotten next day.

Something goes against the Rangers? Might as well get the UN involved.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[GreenCastle]

Talking about the Pyro now and sectarian chants next.

[ekhibee]

Making referees professional isnt going to make them world cup standard, its still the same personnel. The bigger issue is that most of our referees come from the same area and they ignore the rest of Scotland. Im willing to bet there are plenty of talented referees from the non Glasgow and Lanarkshire areas.

There was, and probably still is, **** referees from outside the west of Scotland as well, Craig Thomson, George Smith and Brian McGinlay for example, were all really poor, and I'm sure McGinlay was a mason as well.

[Sylar]

Just seen the highlights of the Motherwell vs Killie game…Jesus ****.

How he sticks with a red after watching the replay is nothing other than pride/control. Never mind demoted, he should be sacked for that.

[speedy_gonzales]

Something goes against Hibs? Barely spoken about or forgotten next day.

Something goes against the Rangers? Might as well get the UN involved.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Tom English kinda made that point, although he said old firm rather than just Rangers, but we all know what he meant.

[GreenCastle]

It’s a shame the discussions are so rushed and English and Stewart talk too much instead of letting others talk and give replies.

[A Hi-Bee]

For all going against referees and crooked or wrong decisions, but am I the only one that thinks the so called not given penalty, that the whole world is talking about, was never a penalty, it was outside the box or on the line at worst, so a free kick was correct.

[H18 SFR]

Just seen the highlights of the Motherwell vs Killie game…Jesus ****.

How he sticks with a red after watching the replay is nothing other than pride/control. Never mind demoted, he should be sacked for that.

Totally agree. That’s a career ender for me.

[overdrive]

For all going against referees and crooked or wrong decisions, but am I the only one that thinks the so called not given penalty, that the whole world is talking about, was never a penalty, it was outside the box or on the line at worst, so a free kick was correct.

On the line is a penalty