Leaving a player or two up the park at corners

[Albert Kidd 86’]

This has always been a bug bear of mine going right back to when ALEX MILLER. used to insist on everyone being back in our box during opposition corner kicks.

back then we had the likes of Keith Wright, Mickey Weir Gareth Evan’s etc etc but still they were back defending, did my nut in on a weekly basis.

listened to Ewan on down the slope ranting about us doing the same, and I agree with him.

can anyone tell me why we do not leave at least Youan up on half way to:

1) be there if the keeper catches and delivers the ball to him in a Acres of space and catch the opposition out.

2) force the opposition to hold back a player or two to mark our man at half way.

3) leave less players for us to mark in the box..

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Fear/confidence?

[Johnny_Leith]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12959089/set-piece-innovations-and-busting-myths-about-corners-specialist-set-piece-coach-andy-parslow-talks-us-through-his-role

Why not leave players up for corners?

If the short corner can lead to groans, another familiar complaint from fans is why their team brings back every player to defend a corner rather than leave attackers up the field to provide a counter-attacking threat. There is a logic to it, Parslow explains.

"A general principle of football is that when you are attacking you want to create space, when you are defending you want to restrict space. A good way to restrict space is with bodies. The more bodies inside the 18-yard box, the less space for attackers to run into."

There are caveats. "The difficulty is that it can create traffic and make it harder for defenders to attack the ball." And, as ever, the reason why different teams have different approaches to defending corners will usually depend on the make-up of their team.

"It poses a question because generally if you leave one up, teams will leave two back. But, again, it comes down to what you have in the squad. There are players who just cannot help the team defensively and it might be better to leave them on the halfway line."

[Albert Kidd 86’]

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12959089/set-piece-innovations-and-busting-myths-about-corners-specialist-set-piece-coach-andy-parslow-talks-us-through-his-role

Why not leave players up for corners?

If the short corner can lead to groans, another familiar complaint from fans is why their team brings back every player to defend a corner rather than leave attackers up the field to provide a counter-attacking threat. There is a logic to it, Parslow explains.

"A general principle of football is that when you are attacking you want to create space, when you are defending you want to restrict space. A good way to restrict space is with bodies. The more bodies inside the 18-yard box, the less space for attackers to run into."

There are caveats. "The difficulty is that it can create traffic and make it harder for defenders to attack the ball." And, as ever, the reason why different teams have different approaches to defending corners will usually depend on the make-up of their team.

"It poses a question because generally if you leave one up, teams will leave two back. But, again, it comes down to what you have in the squad. There are players who just cannot help the team defensively and it might be better to leave them on the halfway line."

Youan or Boyle are a prime example of players who the opposition would never leave unmarked up the park on corners, I would expect them to leave at least 3 players back marking them.

I do not buy into the less space in the box explanation, I would rather keep the opposition guessing, and no way would any team leave Youan and Boyle alone up the park at a corner.

[Baader]

Remember Kevin McAllister under Alex Miller having to trudge back into his own box for a corner much to his and the Hibs fans annoyance. Boos rang out around Easter Road.

Leaving one or two upfield means the opposition having to mark them. Having everyone back also reduces the chances of a quick counter attack. Don't get why anyone would want everyone in the box.

[JasonC1875]

What was even more confusing on Saturday was that we had everyone back and despite them going short every time (early on), it was only ever Hoilett watching for it. Forcing C Cadden to come sprinting out the box at the last second

[MacGruber]

It's a terrible set up. Gray is under scrutiny as a coach and this does him no favours. It is highlighted perfectly by the Hibs Observer in their match analysis video - Youan constantly switches off at these kind of defensive set ups. He's a liability back there. But that's fine -he's our best attacking player leave him up where he can impact. We had 3 players marking nobody in the six yard box - presumably as they are instructed to do for picking up zones. We don't bother covering the back post with a defender though for some bizarre reason. Then there's defending the short corners...

[Deek9]

Arsenal keep getting plaudits for their corners but think it was Monaco last week left 3 players up the field and seemed to nullify their corner threat.

[Donegal Hibby]

Arsenal keep getting plaudits for their corners but think it was Monaco last week left 3 players up the field and seemed to nullify their corner threat.

Heard the commentator asking will this be something premier clubs will look at in you just don’t see it in games .

As to leaving a player or two up a part from what Monaco did with leaving 3 up I don’t think there’s many clubs that do leave a player or two up , even some of the top managers don’t nowadays….

https://footballbunsekicom.com/set-piece/how-do-all-20-premier-league-clubs-defend-corner-kicks-in-23-24-detailed-analysis-of-defending-corner-kicks/

[BoltonHibee]

Arsenal keep getting plaudits for their corners but think it was Monaco last week left 3 players up the field and seemed to nullify their corner threat.

If you leave players up the park, the opposition will more than likely leave players back to cover. I didn’t see the Monaco game but if they stick 3 up when defending corners I’m sure the opposition would leave at least 3 covering them?


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[B.H.F.C]

I’ve no issue with having everyone back if we actually defended properly. The goal we lost on Saturday was brutal. We had the wrong players doing the man marking bit for a start in Nicky Cadden and Youan against the scorer and the boy who won the first header. Then we repeatedly watched them take short corners without doing anything to stop it. It’s just really bad organisation in terms of how we set up in the first place and the players not taking a bit responsibility either.

I’d leave someone up the park but I don’t think it’s critical. Plenty of better teams than us defend corners with every player back. Think Arsenal, who are renowned as the best team from set pieces, do it.

[Real Emerald]

What was even more confusing on Saturday was that we had everyone back and despite them going short every time (early on), it was only ever Hoilett watching for it. Forcing C Cadden to come sprinting out the box at the last second

That bugged me on Saturday too, we were caught 2 against 1 at all their short corners and never learned from it despite having all our players back. No idea the tactics behind this?

[Deek9]

If you leave players up the park, the opposition will more than likely leave players back to cover. I didn’t see the Monaco game but if they stick 3 up when defending corners I’m sure the opposition would leave at least 3 covering them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, Arsenal were forced to keep players back reducing their threat from the corner.

[BoltonHibee]

Exactly, Arsenal were forced to keep players back reducing their threat from the corner.

Pretty simple and basic stuff really. You see that carried out in amateur football week in week out. You should’ve had the reports on the opposition quite a bit prior to the game, if corners/ set pieces are deemed to be a threat into the box then act accordingly.


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[Posh Swanny]

I say all teams should take the Peterborough approach and leave two up high and wide. They let in 2 or 3 goals a game but quite often score 5 or 6! :clapper:

Exhibit A: https://youtu.be/kyCZsBJmjg8?si=_WvldqqJKJUE8Uws&t=58

[hibsforeurope]

Its counter productive sometimes to bring attacking players back at corners. it's assumed that they are marking their player but are not defenders and often get targeted or switch off, like Youan on Saturday. He did well on the initial run but the 2nd phase he lost his man.

It would be much better to leave him up front and take that opposition player(s) out our box. The amount of scrambled goal or players not knowing who's picking up who could be down to the crowded nature of the box, and players losing focus, reduce the numbers in the area and people concentrating on 1 job would be much better.

[PatHead]

Its counter productive sometimes to bring attacking players back at corners. it's assumed that they are marking their player but are not defenders and often get targeted or switch off, like Youan on Saturday. He did well on the initial run but the 2nd phase he lost his man.

It would be much better to leave him up front and take that opposition player(s) out our box. The amount of scrambled goal or players not knowing who's picking up who could be down to the crowded nature of the box, and players losing focus, reduce the numbers in the area and people concentrating on 1 job would be much better.

Or the attacker could act like a professional footballer and do his job in defending his goal.

I don't understand this mentality that forwards can't defend. They are footballers not just there to do one job. As far as I am aware there is no demarcation on the pitch.

[Albert Kidd 86’]

Or the attacker could act like a professional footballer and do his job in defending his goal.

I don't understand this mentality that forwards can't defend. They are footballers not just there to do one job. As far as I am aware there is no demarcation on the pitch.


I hear you, but sometimes I find football to be so slow in trying out new ideas. If you have not got the top players then another avenue could be to shake things up tactics wise.

Fear of failure comes into it, but I am a big believer in fortune favours the brave, Willie miller et al would go into full meltdown down at such a thought which is another reason to try it out, these dinosaurs hold the modern game back.

[TrinityHFC]

Exactly, Arsenal were forced to keep players back reducing their threat from the corner.

Yeah it’s as easy as that right enough.

[Sioux]

The reason it's done is that when you have 21 players in, or immediately around the penalty area, there's very little space for the opposition to get a clear attempt at goal. But like everything, it depends on players doing their jobs.

We see loads of blocking and holding in the box nowadays, more than what it was like 10 years ago (apart from the Italians), and it's all because the attackers are trying to find space away from markers. If you've got space, you've much more chance of scoring a goal.

For example if it's 4 v 4, there's loads of space, and easier for attacking players to 'lose their man'.

That's the Pro theory, but........................

[Murphys Touch]

We went against the grain during my stint at a few Premiership and Championship clubs many moons ago. All came from one coach Gordon Wylde (ex- Rangers Gregg's dad). He was one of the better coaches I had and came up with a lot of interesting tactics to play good attacking football.

We would leave 3 men up on the halfway line when defending corners. VERY rarely would the attacking team leave man-on-man so they kept 4 back. If you add their keeper and the corner kick taker then there could only be 5 players (against our 8) "attacking" the corner but again, always one stood on the edge.

Yes this made more space in the box, but also freed our keeper up to collect poor set pieces and you could position a few spares. Our stats were quite good - it took a great ball in or defensive slip to score.....which you can't defend again even if you had 20 men in there.

An other tactic was to never have a wall at free kicks - he thought it mad that a keeper would let someone have 75% of the goal to aim at with the keeper being at one side and partially sighted

[JimBHibees]

We went against the grain during my stint at a few Premiership and Championship clubs many moons ago. All came from one coach Gordon Wylde (ex- Rangers Gregg's dad). He was one of the better coaches I had and came up with a lot of interesting tactics to play good attacking football.

We would leave 3 men up on the halfway line when defending corners. VERY rarely would the attacking team leave man-on-man so they kept 4 back. If you add their keeper and the corner kick taker then there could only be 5 players (against our 8) "attacking" the corner but again, always one stood on the edge.

Yes this made more space in the box, but also freed our keeper up to collect poor set pieces and you could position a few spares. Our stats were quite good - it took a great ball in or defensive slip to score.....which you can't defend again even if you had 20 men in there.

An other tactic was to never have a wall at free kicks - he thought it mad that a keeper would let someone have 75% of the goal to aim at with the keeper being at one side and partially sighted

Interesting stuff. So no wall if free kick on the edge of the box central.

[superfurryhibby]

Or the attacker could act like a professional footballer and do his job in defending his goal.

I don't understand this mentality that forwards can't defend. They are footballers not just there to do one job. As far as I am aware there is no demarcation on the pitch.

Maybe in Premier League-Fantasy Football world, but at our level I would say there is a bit of a distinction between abilities and Youan showed that perfectly on Saturday.

I see no benefit from having the likes of Youan or Boyle man marking in their own box. They are more of a liability than anything else.

[Irish_Steve]

I remember when Danny Blanchflower was the manager of NI, he said he would love to try leaving five up the pitch at a corner, just to see what the opposition did. Sadly, he never carried out that idea

[McD]

We went against the grain during my stint at a few Premiership and Championship clubs many moons ago. All came from one coach Gordon Wylde (ex- Rangers Gregg's dad). He was one of the better coaches I had and came up with a lot of interesting tactics to play good attacking football.

We would leave 3 men up on the halfway line when defending corners. VERY rarely would the attacking team leave man-on-man so they kept 4 back. If you add their keeper and the corner kick taker then there could only be 5 players (against our 8) "attacking" the corner but again, always one stood on the edge.

Yes this made more space in the box, but also freed our keeper up to collect poor set pieces and you could position a few spares. Our stats were quite good - it took a great ball in or defensive slip to score.....which you can't defend again even if you had 20 men in there.

An other tactic was to never have a wall at free kicks - he thought it mad that a keeper would let someone have 75% of the goal to aim at with the keeper being at one side and partially sighted


Craig levein once put no wall in place against a nakamura free kick when he was at Dundee Utd. The free kick led to nothing, when asked afterwards about it levein said that he felt the wall gave nakamura a way to gauge the heights and distances needed, and that not having a wall removed that extra measuring ability

[raeburnhibs]

Craig levein once put no wall in place against a nakamura free kick when he was at Dundee Utd. The free kick led to nothing, when asked afterwards about it levein said that he felt the wall gave nakamura a way to gauge the heights and distances needed, and that not having a wall removed that extra measuring ability
This genius coaching logic is like conceding a goal takes away the fear of losing one!

[greenlex]

Having a player or players that can’t defend back in the box at corners is just plain stupid. It’s actually inviting trouble. Keep them up the park. Boyle and Youan are prime examples.

[Sioux]

We went against the grain during my stint at a few Premiership and Championship clubs many moons ago. All came from one coach Gordon Wylde (ex- Rangers Gregg's dad). He was one of the better coaches I had and came up with a lot of interesting tactics to play good attacking football.

We would leave 3 men up on the halfway line when defending corners. VERY rarely would the attacking team leave man-on-man so they kept 4 back. If you add their keeper and the corner kick taker then there could only be 5 players (against our 8) "attacking" the corner but again, always one stood on the edge.

Yes this made more space in the box, but also freed our keeper up to collect poor set pieces and you could position a few spares. Our stats were quite good - it took a great ball in or defensive slip to score.....which you can't defend again even if you had 20 men in there.

An other tactic was to never have a wall at free kicks - he thought it mad that a keeper would let someone have 75% of the goal to aim at with the keeper being at one side and partially sighted

The game's move on since then.

[Nicho87]

I would always leave one up right on the half way line.

I’ve never understood bringing everyone back.

Their goal came from us punting the ball from a corner and county being able to get that clearance and recycle

Leaving a youan or Boyle up there gives the defence something to at least punt towards and get us up the park.

[Smartie]

Or the attacker could act like a professional footballer and do his job in defending his goal.

I don't understand this mentality that forwards can't defend. They are footballers not just there to do one job. As far as I am aware there is no demarcation on the pitch.

I remember the much maligned Brian Graham being incredibly effective at being the player who rose highest to clear when back defending corners for us.

Definitely a worthwhile attribute.

[linlithgowhibbie]

I would put the two smallest/worst headers of the ball 45 yds up the pitch. Would mean 3 defenders, a goalie and a man taking the corner leaving at most 6 opposition in or near our box v 9 defending.

[Jack]

My friend at the games, almost 60 years now, points this out every time.

I was a super striker in my day (even though I say so myself 😆) but a liability anywhere near our own goal. There's a couple of Hibs players look like lost sheep in their own half!

Standing on the half way line at corners with 2 defenders, even just delaying the next onslaught so we could reorganise was my job. Our players knew roughly where I'd be and I could make a nuisance of myself wherever the ball was hoofed out.

Seems an all brainer at all levels.

[sauzee1989]

It’s a farce to be honest. Having no outlet whatsoever is asking for trouble and it just shows our weak mentality.

[JimBHibees]

It’s a farce to be honest. Having no outlet whatsoever is asking for trouble and it just shows our weak mentality.

Yet so many other teams do exactly the same

[Wilson]

It’s a farce to be honest. Having no outlet whatsoever is asking for trouble and it just shows our weak mentality.

It isn't mentaliy. It isn't fear or confidence. It is tactical. We intentionally have everyone back.

We leave two players up. They leave two? We're still no better off numbers wise yet their attackers now have more space? Then if we get the ball up the park the players are marked anyway? So they are effectively useless during this phase? Wonder why Gray doesn't go for that.

[HibeeMackenzie]

Liverpool bring everyone back and score quite often on the counter from them. The logic being the players can break out quicker and catch the one defender who’s left back on his own whilst building up speed rather than marked with a standing start on the half way, obviously it’s a lot easier to break out like that with players with the pace of Salah and Nunez

[lugz]

Didn't we use to leave 3 up from corners when Collins was in charge?

Personally unless it's a tall physical striker I wouldn't be bringing attackers back.

[hibstag]

Craig levein once put no wall in place against a nakamura free kick when he was at Dundee Utd. The free kick led to nothing, when asked afterwards about it levein said that he felt the wall gave nakamura a way to gauge the heights and distances needed, and that not having a wall removed that extra measuring ability

There merit to this thinking as It becomes a long range ‘penalty’ where speed and accuracy have been negatively impacted by distance thus favouring the keeper

[Smartie]

It’s definitely a bugbear of mine and put me off Maloney.

I’ve grown to accept that it’s just one of those foibles of modern football, that everyone seems to have to do.

A bit like 451 being the preferred formation of the day - it might be the done thing but it’s certainly not going to make me want to spend as much time and money watching football as I did in the past.

[wookie70]

Youan showed at the weekend why it is pointless having him back at corners. He has no sense of defending or danger but him being back makes other defenders think an area is covered. Boyle is the same and to be honest Kwon isn't much better. We have conceded quite a few from set pieces this year so for me I would get Boyle and Youan if both are playing left and right of the last defender

[Donegal Hibby]

There’s probably less chance of losing a goal from a corner with a crowded penalty box I’d have thought … has the game evolved more tactically on set pieces as well ?

[ancient hibee]

Also if we head the ball clear there is nobody outside the box to pick it up so the opposition collect the ball and keep us under pressure.

[Unseen work]

Players like Youan should never be marking a genuine attacking threat like a defender

He either makes the front 6 yard area, is on a post or is up the park

If you know or have seen Elie play you know he’ll switch off defensively. To ask him to do a role like that is just idiotic and asking for trouble imo

The opposition will also be delighted to see him marking someone compared to up the park. Defenders would be terrified at the thought of a quick release counter to Youan

[worcesterhibby]

No doubt keeping everyone back is something “the analytics” have told us to do. What I wouldn’t give for someone like Tommy Docherty or Malcolm Allison in charge and bugger the analytics.

[ancient hibee]

Or even a player like Tommy Smith who,the one time Bill Shankly decided to set up a tactics board (with Subuteo players),came into the room and kicked the board up in the air saying “that’s the other team just came on the park”.

[Murphys Touch]

The game's move on since then.

Has it? Set pieces are set pieces

I remember us all moaning (and some do on this thread) about Alex Miller pulling 11 men back at corners and that was 25 years ago. It’s just a discussion mate

[Murphys Touch]

Interesting stuff. So no wall if free kick on the edge of the box central.

More or less no wall. Not to say the guy had a free shot at goal…as you could still have players in the box in the way. But a structured wall giving the taker 75% of the goal to aim for while keeper scrambled to see.

David Beckham scored a peach of a free kick (Everton/Portsmouth maybe) where there was no wall and he used his teammates to make a wall

[ShadesLongThrow]

I don’t know what annoys me more. Leaving no one up the park or Sampson constantly whistling and shouting instructions as we’re setting up to defend a corner or free kick. Players surely know their job and are trying to concentrate and this clown is distracting them with his ‘coaching’. Does my head in.

[McD]

I remember the much maligned Brian Graham being incredibly effective at being the player who rose highest to clear when back defending corners for us.

Definitely a worthwhile attribute.


Doidge was also very effective when defending corners

[TrinityHFC]

Crystal Palace tried leaving 3 players up the park at corners today. Arsenal scored from one.

[JohnM1875]

Crystal Palace tried leaving 3 players up the park at corners today. Arsenal scored from one.

No sure that's a fair example considering Arsenal seem to score from every second corner. They're next level at it.

[TrinityHFC]

No sure that's a fair example considering Arsenal seem to score from every second corner. They're next level at it.

One every three league games or so. It’s s easy to say that doing this or that will make a difference but football is now analysed within an inch of its life and there are reasons teams set up the way they do despite some thinking doing something else is obviously going to have a different outcome.

[Jack]

Doidge was also very effective when defending corners

There are strikers that can defend are there are strikers that are a liability.

Doidge was a decent defender.

[JohnM1875]

One every three league games or so. It’s s easy to say that doing this or that will make a difference but football is now analysed within an inch of its life and there are reasons teams set up the way they do despite some thinking doing something else is obviously going to have a different outcome.

That's still an abnormally high conversion rate! I'm no Arsenal fan, I don't even really know why if I'm honest. But they're class at corners.