The Church of England in the 21st Century

[Kato]

...huh, good lord now....


What is it good for?

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[Bostonhibby]

I still haven't thought of anything.

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[Berwickhibby]

...huh, good lord now....


What is it good for?

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Think that goes for all religious institutions

[lapsedhibee]

26 of its members sit in the House of Lords. If there was no Church of England they wouldn't be there, and the empty seats would look bad on TV. That's the only reason I can think of to keep it going.

[grunt]

26 of its members sit in the House of Lords. If there was no Church of England they wouldn't be there, and the empty seats would look bad on TV. You're right, it would look shameful.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/c_fill,g_auto,w_1200,h_675,ar_16:9/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets %2F200429103236-lords-broadcast-suspended-gbr-scli-intl.jpg

[lapsedhibee]

You're right, it would look shameful.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/c_fill,g_auto,w_1200,h_675,ar_16:9/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets %2F200429103236-lords-broadcast-suspended-gbr-scli-intl.jpg

Fair enough if people are staying away to avoid the colour scheme.

[Bostonhibby]

You're right, it would look shameful.

https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/c_fill,g_auto,w_1200,h_675,ar_16:9/https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.cnn.com%2Fcnnnext%2Fdam%2Fassets %2F200429103236-lords-broadcast-suspended-gbr-scli-intl.jpgI'm guessing the day that picture was taken wasn't the one where expenses get paid out.

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[Keith_M]

...huh, good lord now....


What is it good for?


Agree with the poster that said you could apply that to any religion.

Too many people living in the past and denying science/reality to live in a fantasy world

[Jack]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/18LRkguUL4/

Apologies if the link doesn't work. I'm surprised this hasn't had a thread of its own!

[Ozyhibby]

Agree with the poster that said you could apply that to any religion.

Too many people living in the past and denying science/reality to live in a fantasy world

I think when you get older, living in the past can be comforting. Passing a church on a Sunday when the congregation is leaving says a lot about its direction of travel. They are older than the average bowls club by about 20 years and at least bowls clubs attract new members as people get older. The churches are dying.


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[Corstorphine Hibby]

I disagree. Whilst what you say may be true for some Christian denominations, I attend Mass every Sunday using various churches throughout Edinburgh and when I travel abroad regularly. The congregations are, generally, diverse in terms of both age ranges and ethnicity. Oh, and your chat about not attracting new members is also nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

I disagree. Whilst what you say may be true for some Christian denominations, I attend Mass every Sunday using various churches throughout Edinburgh and when I travel abroad regularly. The congregations are, generally, diverse in terms of both age ranges and ethnicity. Oh, and your chat about not attracting new members is also nonsense.

The ethnicity thing is interesting because Scotland is not that diverse.


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[Corstorphine Hibby]

We'll agree to disagree then. Check out the diversity we now have in most of the Scottish league team squads. I've noticed the same changes in congregations at Mass over the last 10 years or so.

[Ozyhibby]

We'll agree to disagree then. Check out the diversity we now have in most of the Scottish league team squads. I've noticed the same changes in congregations at Mass over the last 10 years or so.

I would say football squads are a lot more diverse than Scotland as a whole?[emoji2369]


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[Bishop Hibee]

The reality is the world is more religious than ever. It’s the ‘first world’ bubble that’s predominately atheist. Also the countries with the most ageing demographics are the most atheist ones so I’d expect religion to become more rather than less prominent world wide.

[Stairway 2 7]

We'll agree to disagree then. Check out the diversity we now have in most of the Scottish league team squads. I've noticed the same changes in congregations at Mass over the last 10 years or so.

That's because immigrants are much more religious uk born atheism is the majority.

Church numbers have been plummeting the last 30 years and the demographics getting much older on average. Churches are closing at record rates and the Polish saved it from being more.

7% of people in Scotland regularly attend a church it was 17% 35 years ago. Numbers getting baptised halved in that time too so it will continue dropping for decades

[superfurryhibby]

The ethnicity thing is interesting because Scotland is not that diverse.


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If you include people from European countries, like Spain and Poland? I find Edinburgh a culturally diverse place, people from all over the world here. Glasgow too.

[Stairway 2 7]

If you include people from European countries, like Spain and Poland? I find Edinburgh a culturally diverse place, people from all over the world here. Glasgow too.

People don't usually usually separate white Caucasians when talking about diversity but maybe they should, Scotland is very white though. 93% of which 87% white British. Edinburgh more diverse 85% white and 62% white British, according to 2022 census

We've had massive immigration since then net 50k in 2023, so that will be lower

[Pretty Boy]

People don't usually usually separate white Caucasians when talking about diversity but maybe they should, Scotland is very white though. 93% of which 87% white British. Edinburgh more diverse 85% white and 62% white British, according to 2022 census

We've had massive immigration since then net 50k in 2023, so that will be lower

I think diversity in Scotland and particularly Edinburgh is probably quite split on socio economic grounds. My daughter goes to school in Niddrie and her class is hugely diverse. It's a Catholic school but 2 of her best friends are Muslim, obviously Catholic schooling and the Polish go somewhat hand in hand and there is a whole range of other races and ethnicities. I'd say it's about a 50/50 split of white and not. Incidentally at that age (7) none of the kids seem to notice or if they do, they don't care. You have to wonder at what age it becomes an issue, why and where it comes from. For the opening day of the Euros they were all allowed to wear a top of their favourite national team and my daughter was keen to tell me that whilst she had Scotland, X had Turkey, Y had Poland and Z wore a Pakistan cricket top. It was just a statement of fact rather than anything ulterior behind it.

I wonder if the same diversity occurs at schools in more affluent areas. A cursory glance at the P1 pictures the EEN publish each year suggests not but maybe that's seeing what I expect to see as much as anything else. It's probably confirmation bias but when I walk around Niddrie, Craigmillar etc I see a huge diversity. When I am up visiting my parents in and around Colinton much less so. It tends to be white and older white at that.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think diversity in Scotland and particularly Edinburgh is probably quite split on socio economic grounds. My daughter goes to school in Niddrie and her class is hugely diverse. It's a Catholic school but 2 of her best friends are Muslim, obviously Catholic schooling and the Polish go somewhat hand in hand and there is a whole range of other races and ethnicities. I'd say it's about a 50/50 split of white and not. Incidentally at that age (7) none of the kids seem to notice or if they do, they don't care. You have to wonder at what age it becomes an issue, why and where it comes from. For the opening day of the Euros they were all allowed to wear a top of their favourite national team and my daughter was keen to tell me that whilst she had Scotland, X had Turkey, Y had Poland and Z wore a Pakistan cricket top. It was just a statement of fact rather than anything ulterior behind it.

I wonder if the same diversity occurs at schools in more affluent areas. A cursory glance at the P1 pictures the EEN publish each year suggests not but maybe that's seeing what I expect to see as much as anything else. It's probably confirmation bias but when I walk around Niddrie, Craigmillar etc I see a huge diversity. When I am up visiting my parents in and around Colinton much less so. It tends to be white and older white at that.
Daughters primary class is the same 50 50 white non white. Think it's also to do with British people's birth rates plummeting whilst immigrants are still having huge families in comparison. In a few decades that will really flip the percentages. You might be glad to hear although anecdotal, my oldest had about 30 in the garden and house for her 18th and the mix was around the same. Racism just seems bizarre and from the past when I talk to her about it. Having lots of friends from diverse groups must blunt the pish from Farage et al. Probably why the more diverse the area the worse Reform do

[superfurryhibby]

People don't usually usually separate white Caucasians when talking about diversity but maybe they should, Scotland is very white though. 93% of which 87% white British. Edinburgh more diverse 85% white and 62% white British, according to 2022 census

We've had massive immigration since then net 50k in 2023, so that will be lower

The post I replied said ethnicity and in my book ethnicity is not defined by skin colour.

[Stairway 2 7]

The post I replied said ethnicity and in my book ethnicity is not defined by skin colour.

The census has all white Europeans as the same ethnicity and if you were a corporation it would be the same if you were wanting a diverse quota hired. I get that that could be wrong as a workplace could be diverse with lots of Europeans even if very white

[superfurryhibby]

The census has all white Europeans as the same ethnicity and if you were a corporation it would be the same if you were wanting a diverse quota hired. I get that that could be wrong as a workplace could be diverse with lots of Europeans even if very white

I can't recall the census questions but they allow for other? An example would be Traveller/Gypsy

Just had a look.

"Several respondents stated that they found some of the existing ethnic group categories to be too broad. In particular, the "Any other White background, write in" category, "Gypsy or Irish Traveller" category and "English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish/British" category. For example, respondents stated:

"Any other White background, write in. Because it does not enable us to distinguish consistently between European backgrounds for service delivery."

[Ozyhibby]

I think the only way you think Scotland is diverse is if you have never lived anywhere else.


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[babahibs]

Leith is pretty diverse tbf

[Stairway 2 7]

Leith is pretty diverse tbf

87% white and 86% English the main language in 2022 census, very white compared to lots of English areas I'd think

[JimBHibees]

87% white and 86% English the main language in 2022 census, very white compared to lots of English areas I'd think

That Edinburgh or Leith

[babahibs]

87% white and 86% English the main language in 2022 census, very white compared to lots of English areas I'd think

% yadda yadda, census blah blah.

In the real world, Leith is pretty diverse, you should maybe visit sometime.

[Keith_M]

% yadda yadda, census blah blah.

In the real world, Leith is pretty diverse, you should maybe visit sometime.


Imagine ruining your argument with mere 'facts'.

What a nerve!

[Ozyhibby]

Imagine ruining your argument with mere 'facts'.

What a nerve!

Alternative facts available apparently.[emoji23]


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[Stairway 2 7]

That Edinburgh or Leith

Leith ward. It used to be in the 90% so some people just see more black faces and think wow there is loads here

[babahibs]

I live in Leith.

I finished work earlyish today and met a few friends for a drink in Leith.
At a SWEDISH bar.
My friends are IRISH, GHANAIAN, CHILEAN, ZIMBABWEAN.
The bartender was AMERICAN.
I got a kebab from a TURKISH place on my way down the road.

Not diverse though.

[Stairway 2 7]

% yadda yadda, census blah blah.

In the real world, Leith is pretty diverse, you should maybe visit sometime.

Ive lived my life there, went to Leith academy, played for Leith Athletic. It's getting more diverse and the scran is better for it. It's diverse but not nearly as much as many English areas, London is 53% white. I'm really worried about the gentrification from white hipsters though ha.

No one said its not diverse, but it is 87% white

[Bishop Hibee]

I work in Slateford and I’d say Gorgie is actually more culturally diverse than Leith now. Out of the 18 staff at my work, one is Greek, two are Indian, one is Nigerian and one is from Hong Kong.

Interestingly re the thread, the Nigerian and Hong Konger are practicing Christians though not Episcopalian. My Nigerian colleague sends her kids to a Catholic primary school although she’s evangelical.

[Stairway 2 7]

I work in Slateford and I’d say Gorgie is actually more culturally diverse than Leith now. Out of the 18 staff at my work, one is Greek, two are Indian, one is Nigerian and one is from Hong Kong.

Interestingly re the thread, the Nigerian and Hong Konger are practicing Christians though not Episcopalian. My Nigerian colleague sends her kids to a Catholic primary school although she’s evangelical.

Much more according to the census 79% white, 13% Asian, large Indian population in Gorgie. Thankfully for them combat 18 have long stopped selling their papers at tyncastle or they would get a sore face

[Keith_M]

I work in Slateford and I’d say Gorgie is actually more culturally diverse than Leith now. Out of the 18 staff at my work, one is Greek, two are Indian, one is Nigerian and one is from Hong Kong.

Interestingly re the thread, the Nigerian and Hong Konger are practicing Christians though not Episcopalian. My Nigerian colleague sends her kids to a Catholic primary school although she’s evangelical.


There's a 'Catholic' primary school in Govanhill in Glasgow where something like 75% of the kids are Hindu or Muslim.

I think it's called Holy Cross, though it has been rumoured that the name is to be change to The Holy Lotus Flower....

[superfurryhibby]

Scotland is less ethnically diverse than England, shock horror.

[Ozyhibby]

Scotland is less ethnically diverse than England, shock horror.

Than most of Europe.


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[superfurryhibby]

Than most of Europe.


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:greengrin

Double shock horror :thumbsup:

[Ozyhibby]

:greengrin

Double shock horror :thumbsup:

We’re more diverse than North Korea though.[emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

We’re more diverse than North Korea though.[emoji106]


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A 90% white nation where reform are polling 13% and rising, baffling. Their polling great in places like rural Aberdeenshire, one of the most white areas in the UK. Looks like they will get 2 councillors in Glasgow. I'd hate to see the creeps they will get to be MSPs in 26

[Ozyhibby]

A 90% white nation where reform are polling 13% and rising, baffling. Their polling great in places like rural Aberdeenshire, one of the most white areas in the UK. Looks like they will get 2 councillors in Glasgow. I'd hate to see the creeps they will get to be MSPs in 26

We are in fertile territory for any party offering to break the system. We have had no real economic growth since 2008 and constantly rising tax take for lower and lower services.


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[superfurryhibby]

We’re more diverse than North Korea though.[emoji106]


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In your mind, is there some sort of diversity competition? :na na:

[Stairway 2 7]

In your mind, is there some sort of diversity competition? :na na:

This all started with him saying Scotland isn't very diverse, it isn't it's 90% white and 89% English is the first language. Not sure why it was an issue for some. I'm sure that will change we've had large amounts of immigration the last few years and people join where there compatriots live, along with a much higher birth rate for non white families

[superfurryhibby]

This all started with him saying Scotland isn't very diverse, it isn't it's 90% white and 89% English is the first language. Not sure why it was an issue for some. I'm sure that will change we've had large amounts of immigration the last few years and people join where there compatriots live, along with a much higher birth rate for non white families



Scotland’s Census asked people to choose the option that best described their ethnic group or background. The majority of people in Scotland chose ‘Scottish’ (77.7%) or ‘Other British’ (9.4%) within the White category. In 2022 these groups together made up 87.1% of the population.

In 2022 12.9% of people in Scotland had a minority ethnic background. This is an increase from 8.2% in 2011.
"

The number of people in Edinburgh with ethnic background will be higher than the 12.9% from national statistics. I find Edinburgh to be a culturally and ethnically diverse city.

How Scotland compares to other countries in Europe or North Korea, is an irrelevance really.