Poor Discipline

[Broxburn Greens]

I always think a sign of a team in disarray and a a symptom of a Head Coach / Manager not fully in control of his dressing room is when teams are showing poor discipline.

13 Games in and we've already had 4 red cards.

Interestingly Kilmarnock have had more with 5 and St. Johnstone 3, which is 3 out the bottom 4 clubs having had 12 ordering offs between them out of a total of 20. Hearts have had only the 1 but add that in and the bottom 4 clubs account for 65% of all red cards.

Just from a Hibs point of view it's no wonder we're at the bottom end as we've now played 30% of our games with a man down at some point.

It's also surely unacceptable that having played 9 games the club captain has not only been ordered off once but has already collected 4 yellow cards as well. 44% of the games he plays he gets carded and this is the guy to be club captain (despite any other failings)?

Have the coaching staff lost the discipline of the squad? It looks like it to me.

[Allant1981]

So a poor first touch like obitas at the weekend and the lunging in to get control again is the coaching staff losing the squad, we can blame the manager and coaches for a lot of things but that's just clutching at straws

[Broxburn Greens]

So a poor first touch like obitas at the weekend and the lunging in to get control again is the coaching staff losing the squad, we can blame the manager and coaches for a lot of things but that's just clutching at straws

Perhaps if the guy had been coached better not to lunge in, in a panic after losing control (i.e. show some discipline) he wouldn't have got sent off?

[JohnM1875]

Perhaps if the guy had been coached better not to lunge in, in a panic after losing control (i.e. show some discipline) he wouldn't have got sent off?

Exactly. Not a coincidence if you ask me.

[Allant1981]

Perhaps if the guy had been coached better not to lunge in, in a panic after losing control (i.e. show some discipline) he wouldn't have got sent off?

Every single player has a crap touch at some point, just so happens he tried to get it back but caught the player, has absolutely nothing to do with the manager losing the squad

[TrinityHFC]

Every single player has a crap touch at some point, just so happens he tried to get it back but caught the player, has absolutely nothing to do with the manager losing the squad

Gray today suggesting that it’s probably the opposite. Trying too hard to rectify the first mistake. It can happen when things not going well. The decision making becomes a bit more desperate.

[Broxburn Greens]

Every single player has a crap touch at some point, just so happens he tried to get it back but caught the player, has absolutely nothing to do with the manager losing the squad

Agree, of course they do, but there's absolutely no need to compound the error by making the 2nd touch a red card and that sort of discipline is trained and instilled into players. Obita is a bomb scare at the best of times, zero composure.

[Mon Dieu4]

I get the lunge if you are last man, but on the halfway line just try and make a block, chances are nothing was going to come of it

[Vault Boy]

Gray today suggesting that it’s probably the opposite. Trying too hard to rectify the first mistake. It can happen when things not going well. The decision making becomes a bit more desperate.

I think this is the most rational explanation for it. Players are clearly in whatever the opposite of a 'flow state' is. Every decision is laboured, they aren't acting in confidence or with any level of self assurance. It leads to mistakes like these, and we aren't half being punished for it this season.

[Unseen work]

Who we thinking will;

Get sent off
Make a mistake that results in a goal
Misses a pen

Tomorrow?🤣

[Viva_Palmeiras]

A psychologist can explain how in coaching players to

”don’t make one mistake into two mistakes…” results in the second mistake.

perhaps perversely, players are trying too hard if that’s possible? And falling to to the trap?

[kentao]

Perhaps if the guy had been coached better not to lunge in, in a panic after losing control (i.e. show some discipline) he wouldn't have got sent off?

He`s 30 years old with over 400 games of experience not sure how much coaching he`s going to need to cut it out his game at this stage. Cant fault Gray for experienced players making stupid decisions like Newel and Obita.

[Allant1981]

I get the lunge if you are last man, but on the halfway line just try and make a block, chances are nothing was going to come of it

Easy to say now but at the time the first thing obita would have been thinking is to win the ball back

[kentao]

Who we thinking will;

Get sent off
Make a mistake that results in a goal
Misses a pen

Tomorrow?🤣


Get sent off - SDG
Make a mistake that results in a goal - Bursik
Misses a pen - Duk

[B.H.F.C]

I thought Obita was unlucky. Stupid, but unlucky. It’s just a split second decision he made and I don’t think he necessarily meant to go in as he did.

I agree with the general point on the poor discipline though. It was the same in the last couple of weeks of Jack Ross. We got two red cards in his last game but also two the week before up at Ross County. I think it just boils down to a combination of everything but tells a story IMo.

[HoboHarry]

Perhaps if the guy had been coached better not to lunge in, in a panic after losing control (i.e. show some discipline) he wouldn't have got sent off?
Behave yourself FFS. Every player everywhere makes a momentary bad decision. This desperation to find a stick to beat Hibs with has reached lunatic level.

[Mainstandman]

Every single player has a crap touch at some point, just so happens he tried to get it back but caught the player, has absolutely nothing to do with the manager losing the squad


Thought Cadden had a excellent first touch to cushion the ball to the Dundee player who then crossed for the equaliser, lol

[HarpOnHibee]

Mistakes occur through a lack of awareness and not reading the play. If he had been more aware of his positioning and the players around him, he wouldn't have lunged in like that. The same for the unforced howlers from Bursik and Bushiri. If you focus too hard on one area of the pitch at any given time, your field of view narrows and you lose track of your positional awareness and surroundings. That's why it's so important for a player to take time when they're off the ball to have a quick look around, see where players are and track their movements. Then you'll know what to do with the ball when it's at your feet, instead of panicking.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Some interesting stats.

A big issue for me with our discipline is how quickly we collapse after a red. On average it takes us 6 minutes to concede after a red card and we’ve never managed to avoid conceding after a red. Our reaction to adversity is atrocious.

[B.H.F.C]

Some interesting stats.

A big issue for me with our discipline is how quickly we collapse after a red. On average it takes us 6 minutes to concede after a red card and we’ve never managed to avoid conceding after a red. Our reaction to adversity is atrocious.

We go down to 10 and it looks like we have about 7.

Although it’s been an issue before him, we don’t have a manager who can react quickly enough to it. By the time he does, the damage is done. And we don’t have the players with the desire, belief or determination to dig in a bit.

Saturday would have been some going to get a result, having to play for 80 minutes. But you look at the Motherwell and Dundee Utd games, you’re talking about having to hold on for 15 minutes or so yet the outcomes were inevitable.

[AgentDaleCooper]

A psychologist can explain how in coaching players to

”don’t make one mistake into two mistakes…” results in the second mistake.

perhaps perversely, players are trying too hard if that’s possible? And falling to to the trap?

that's really interesting actually

[jakedance]

A stupid sending off isn’t the fault of a manager. A goalkeeping mistake leading to a goal isn’t the fault of a manager. Missing a sitter isn’t the fault of a manager. In fact any individual error isn’t the fault of a manager. But when these things are all happening routinely in every game then the manager has to shoulder some responsibility. We know this squad is crap and there are deep rooted problems at the club but at the moment they couldn’t really be performing any worse individually and collectively, and that’s on David Gray.

[ancient hibee]

Some interesting stats.

A big issue for me with our discipline is how quickly we collapse after a red. On average it takes us 6 minutes to concede after a red card and we’ve never managed to avoid conceding after a red. Our reaction to adversity is atrocious.
No leadership,particularly on the park but also on the bench,I’m afraid.

[HarpOnHibee]

We go down to 10 and it looks like we have about 7.

Although it’s been an issue before him, we don’t have a manager who can react quickly enough to it. By the time he does, the damage is done. And we don’t have the players with the desire, belief or determination to dig in a bit.

Saturday would have been some going to get a result, having to play for 80 minutes. But you look at the Motherwell and Dundee Utd games, you’re talking about having to hold on for 15 minutes or so yet the outcomes were inevitable.

There's no good reason why a team shouldn't be able to hold out for 80 minutes with 10 men. The goals we conceded didn't come about at the cost of being down to 10, they were all very avoidable errors. The problem is with the general attitude. The players began to panic and started making individual errors that were entirely avoidable. If they had just played on as normal as if there were still 11 on the field, they likely wouldn't have folded so easily. They lost control of the game, when it was still possible to maintain.

[Onion]

Agree with this. indiscipline is usually one of the main symptoms of a club in trouble. Another is bad luck.

[Hibees1973]

Dearie me.

Still some apologists for Gray on here.

Players making the same stupid mistakes constantly is all down to the manager. 100%.

If he continues to select said players he deserves to be sacked. It was Obita on Saturday and he has been caught out so many times. The Kilmarnock game being another prime example.

Shame you can't sack the players, but you can sack the manager. Barring a miracle tomorrow night and Gray transforming the team into an organised outfit which don't make criminal mistakes, Gray won't be here come the weekend.

[Allant1981]

Dearie me.

Still some apologists for Gray on here.

Players making the same stupid mistakes constantly is all down to the manager. 100%.

If he continues to select said players he deserves to be sacked. It was Obita on Saturday and he has been caught out so many times. The Kilmarnock game being another prime example.

Shame you can't sack the players, but you can sack the manager. Barring a miracle tomorrow night and Gray transforming the team into an organised outfit which don't make criminal mistakes, Gray won't be here come the weekend.

Gray apologists for pointing out that a crap first touch or a crap tackle is down to the player and not the manager, they are supposed to be professionals. The manager is at fault for picking said crap players but they should be able to do the basics

[Northernhibee]

Gray apologists for pointing out that a crap first touch or a crap tackle is down to the player and not the manager, they are supposed to be professionals. The manager is at fault for picking said crap players but they should be able to do the basics

The problem is that he is picking crap players, but it’s not as if there is any quality on the bench to replace them.

[Donegal Hibby]

Dearie me.

Still some apologists for Gray on here.

Players making the same stupid mistakes constantly is all down to the manager. 100%.

If he continues to select said players he deserves to be sacked. It was Obita on Saturday and he has been caught out so many times. The Kilmarnock game being another prime example.

Shame you can't sack the players, but you can sack the manager. Barring a miracle tomorrow night and Gray transforming the team into an organised outfit which don't make criminal mistakes, Gray won't be here come the weekend.

Players making mistakes isn’t down to the manager .

Killie have had more than us sent off though a lot hold Derek McInnes in high regard on here … is it his fault and down to him being poor as a manager ? … absolutely NOT ! .

Most managers select certain players consistently either because they believe in them or probably don’t have better in that position .

Liam Donnelly was sent off with two yellow cards and again weeks later with two more yellow cards after McInnes picked him again , nothing do to with McInnes as a manager just a player not learning and making the same mistakes again.

I’m no Obita fan though I’d like to know who is a better alternative?

I would imagine bookings and red cards are up from last season and it for me is about players making the right decisions… blaming managers for players making mistakes is absolute nonsense IMO.

[Allant1981]

The problem is that he is picking crap players, but it’s not as if there is any quality on the bench to replace them.

I agree they are not very good but they are still professionals and should be able to do the basics, that's not on the manager and certainly doesn't mean he has lost control of the squad as suggested

[Broxburn Greens]

Gray apologists for pointing out that a crap first touch or a crap tackle is down to the player and not the manager, they are supposed to be professionals. The manager is at fault for picking said crap players but they should be able to do the basics

In Obita’s case it’s not the crap first touch that’s the issue, it’s the sheer lack of composure and discipline that leads to the dreadful lunge resulting in the red card.

I suppose in your mind Youan’s well disciplined because he’s good at keepie uppies?

[Broxburn Greens]

There's no good reason why a team shouldn't be able to hold out for 80 minutes with 10 men. The goals we conceded didn't come about at the cost of being down to 10, they were all very avoidable errors. The problem is with the general attitude. The players began to panic and started making individual errors that were entirely avoidable. If they had just played on as normal as if there were still 11 on the field, they likely wouldn't have folded so easily. They lost control of the game, when it was still possible to maintain.

Exactly as happened a stones throw away at Tannadice

[HarpOnHibee]

I agree they are not very good but they are still professionals and should be able to do the basics, that's not on the manager and certainly doesn't mean he has lost control of the squad as suggested

If it was just 1 or 2 players on occasion, then you would have a valid point. But it isn't. We have a squad full of players actively taking turns to have moments of sheer stupidity (in which there were several against Dundee). That can't just be a coincidence. Part of a managers job is to instil confidence into his squad and he does this by making sure that they all understand their roles within the team. These players don't look confident, they don't look like they really know what they're supposed to be doing. That's absolutely on the manager.

[Allant1981]

In Obita’s case it’s not the crap first touch that’s the issue, it’s the sheer lack of composure and discipline that leads to the dreadful lunge resulting in the red card.

I suppose in your mind Youan’s well disciplined because he’s good at keepie uppies?

If he had a better first touch then anything after doesn't happen so it's 100% because of that, again, absolutely not on the manager as you suggested, I really don't care about youan messing about with the ball, much more to be bothered about than that

[Unseen work]

I’ll go for a Lewis Miller red card

Goes firing into some tackles and surprised he’s never got sent off yet

[Donegal Hibby]

I’ll go for a Lewis Miller red card

Goes firing into some tackles and surprised he’s never got sent off yet

One player who it won’t be on the other side is Shinnie .. honestly think what that guys got away with over the years is unbelievable.

[Coco Bryce]

One player who it won’t be on the other side is Shinnie .. honestly think what that guys got away with over the years is unbelievable.

We can only dream of a player like Shinnie in midfield.

[snedzuk]

Who we thinking will;

Get sent off
Make a mistake that results in a goal
Misses a pen

Tomorrow?🤣

Shinnie?

[GreenCastle]

1 year ago Newell talking after the semi final loss - when it was 11v10 - Aberdeen with 10.

Ok we didn’t have a player sent off in that game but our way to deal with these situations has a few consistents..

https://youtu.be/S2D5iebPrFY

[BoomtownHibees]

Shinnie?

Don’t be silly

[Donegal Hibby]

Any word who the officials are ?

[expresso]

I remember in the old days when a team going down to 10 men would scrap like their lives depended on it.
This Hibs team just folds like a house of cards.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I have a horrible feeling tomorrow night we will be 0-2 down at HT. There will be howls from the home standards at the goalie slicing out clearances and a Newell or a Levitt failing to track back an obvious runner. And a near empty stadium at the end. And appalling body language.

The key is to keep expectations low :greengrin. I would love to be convinced and hear the case for us seeing any different.

[cabbageandribs1875]

I have a horrible feeling tomorrow night we will be 0-2 down at HT. There will be howls from the home standards at the goalie slicing out clearances and a Newell or a Levitt failing to track back an obvious runner. And a near empty stadium at the end. And appalling body language.

The key is to keep expectations low :greengrin. I would love to be convinced and hear the case for us seeing any different.


i think he's suspended

[JimBHibees]

i think he's suspended

Don’t think he is

[cabbageandribs1875]

Don’t think he is

cool


should win now :greengrin

[Forza Fred]

Who we thinking will;

Get sent off
Make a mistake that results in a goal
Misses a pen

Tomorrow?🤣

I,ve lost count of whose turn it is.