HSL meeting with Hibs Board this Thursday

[stalbanshibby]

As shareholder I got an email from HSL requesting I submit my views on the Club statement, and how the club is run generally, prior to a pre-arranged meeting on Thursday. Presumably so the HSL people can collate and present the best of them to the Board. An opportunity for supporters to get their points across.

I started an email in response earlier this morning, but I'd be happy to include the views of others who may not have got that opportunity.

Anybody got anything constructive they'd like said? Serious questions, and bullet point format only, I think. Wednesday lunchtime deadline.

My threepence worth for now:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament.

1.It seems to me there's too many staff/ players on high wages who aren't contributing to the club, and there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this and what self-reflection is taking place at Board level, especially with regard to improve fanbase connection?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill. To what extent are these same attributes reflected at Board level? i.e. is what is happening on the park just a reflection of current management? Discuss.

[blackpoolhibs]

As shareholder I got an email from HSL requesting I submit my views on the Club statement, and how the club is run generally, prior to a pre-arranged meeting on Thursday. Presumably so the HSL people can collate and present the best of them to the Board. An opportunity for supporters to get their points across.

I started an email in response earlier this morning, but I'd be happy to include the views of others who may not have got that opportunity.

Anybody got anything constructive they'd like said? Serious questions, and bullet point format only, I think. Wednesday lunchtime deadline.

My threepence worth for now:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament.

1.It seems to me there's too many staff/ players on high wages who aren't contributing to the club, and there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this and what self-reflection is taking place at Board level, especially with regard to improve fanbase connection?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill. To what extent are these same attributes reflected at Board level? i.e. is what is happening on the park just a reflection of current management? Discuss.

Ask them if they would ask the owner to look again at letting HSL try to get more shares up to the required amount we need?

[Springbank]

If there are disruptive & disinterested players who just want away - let them go, release them now.

And if there are others drawing a wage who have nothing to contribute at the required level - release them.

Elie Youan, Luke Amos, Harry McKirdy, Jake Doyle Hayes - that type of player.

They are doing themselves and their reputations no favours by being here, and proving they are bottom-of-the-league standard footballers.

If the club feels that they are doing the club harmony an untold amount of harm with their performance level, I would support them all being released immediately

This would leave behind a core group who are focussed, committed, serious and professional - unlike all of the above. That's the kind of statement we need to see, as a serious sporting institution, with core values and standards

[HibeeLife]

If there are disruptive & disinterested players who just want away - let them go, release them now.

And if there are others drawing a wage who have nothing to contribute at the required level - release them.

Elie Youan, Luke Amos, Harry McKirdy, Jake Doyle Hayes - that type of player.

They are doing themselves and their reputations no favours by being here, and proving they are bottom-of-the-league standard footballers.

If the club feels that they are doing the club harmony an untold amount of harm with their performance level, I would support them all being released immediately

This would leave behind a core group who are focussed, committed, serious and professional - unlike all of the above. That's the kind of statement we need to see, as a serious sporting institution, with core values and standards

The players are under contract. What is this “release them” you talk about?

[Hibernian Verse]

If there are disruptive & disinterested players who just want away - let them go, release them now.

And if there are others drawing a wage who have nothing to contribute at the required level - release them.

Elie Youan, Luke Amos, Harry McKirdy, Jake Doyle Hayes - that type of player.

They are doing themselves and their reputations no favours by being here, and proving they are bottom-of-the-league standard footballers.

If the club feels that they are doing the club harmony an untold amount of harm with their performance level, I would support them all being released immediately

This would leave behind a core group who are focussed, committed, serious and professional - unlike all of the above. That's the kind of statement we need to see, as a serious sporting institution, with core values and standards

Youan is our only saleable asset irrespective of how he has performed this season.

[Hibernian Verse]

The players are under contract. What is this “release them” you talk about?

Presumably the poster would prefer we took the financial hit in a oner rather than spreading it over the next 8 months. Which makes brutal business sense.

[Jack]

What exactly is and will be moving forward the role of the BKG at the club?

[SickBoy32]

Presumably the poster would prefer we took the financial hit in a oner rather than spreading it over the next 8 months. Which makes brutal business sense.

Alternatively the club could offer them a % of their remaining contract as a lump sum, and allow them to seek new employment in January.

Totally agree that the mood around the club will undoubtedly be being dragged down by all the bad eggs lingering.

Binning off these no-hopers sounds like great business sense to me 👍

[Winston Ingram]

Anyone know what time the meeting is and where?

I've been a member of HSL from the start. Does that entitle me to go?

[TrinityHFC]

Difficult one because coaching, management of the team, contracts etc is really nothing that could or should solved through a minority shareholder discussion.

Club structure, board, BK relationship and how we are working with them are probably the main things that can be discussed.

[Trinity Hibee]

Anyone know what time the meeting is and where?

I've been a member of HSL from the start. Does that enable me to go?

Unless you are on HSL board I’d suspect not. Otherwise could have a truck load of people arriving

[stalbanshibby]

Difficult one because coaching, management of the team, contracts etc is really nothing that could or should solved through a minority shareholder discussion.

Club structure, board, BK relationship and how we are working with them are probably the main things that can be discussed.


According the the BBC/ Mail, a guy called Garvan Stewart from Bournemouth is coming in to lead recruitment. Doesn't say much for Malky. There seems to me to be a lot of head scratching going on at the mo (just as well), or alternatively Board people throwing their hands in the air (not taking responsibility) and saying 'OK. You have a go'. At least signs of BK involvement.

[Trinity Hibee]

According the the BBC/ Mail, a guy called Garvan Stewart from Bournemouth is coming in to lead recruitment. Doesn't say much for Malky. There seems to me to be a lot of head scratching going on at the mo (just as well), or alternatively Board people throwing their hands in the air (not taking responsibility) and saying 'OK. You have a go'. At least signs of BK involvement.

If he comes in to lead recruitment then what are the current recruitment area doing? People getting paid a lot of money to do **** all. If someone new comes in I expect to see someone leave.

[Brightside]

If there are disruptive & disinterested players who just want away - let them go, release them now.

And if there are others drawing a wage who have nothing to contribute at the required level - release them.

Elie Youan, Luke Amos, Harry McKirdy, Jake Doyle Hayes - that type of player.

They are doing themselves and their reputations no favours by being here, and proving they are bottom-of-the-league standard footballers.

If the club feels that they are doing the club harmony an untold amount of harm with their performance level, I would support them all being released immediately

This would leave behind a core group who are focussed, committed, serious and professional - unlike all of the above. That's the kind of statement we need to see, as a serious sporting institution, with core values and standards

I'd play JDH before most of our current starters.

[Unseen work]

I'd play JDH before most of our current starters.

The treatment of him, Amos and Campbell this season has been bizarre.

JDH - Nowhere to be seen, in for hearts game and gets on, not in squad again until the weekend.

Amos - played a lot pre season and now not featuring at all. He’s not a bad player and we’re not performing, why is he not getting a chance?

Campbell - seemed like he was going to be a key player under Gray but recently not been getting in the squad. Fallout between them?

I do think Doyle Hayes is a decent player too

[BoomtownHibees]

The treatment of him, Amos and Campbell this season has been bizarre.

JDH - Nowhere to be seen, in for hearts game and gets on, not in squad again until the weekend.

Amos - played a lot pre season and now not featuring at all. He’s not a bad player and we’re not performing, why is he not getting a chance?

Campbell - seemed like he was going to be a key player under Gray but recently not been getting in the squad. Fallout between them?

I do think Doyle Hayes is a decent player too

In regards Campbell, is it no just because he’s been pish?

[JohnM1875]

In regards Campbell, is it no just because he’s been pish?

We’d not be able to field a squad if that was the problem.

[Paulie Walnuts]

In regards Campbell, is it no just because he’s been pish?

Without sounding flippant, he’s not the only one. Throw in the fact that Gray seemed to very publicly back him in the summer, suggesting he’d be one of his main men, it makes it all a bit bizarre he’s disappeared. Not that I’m complaining mind you.

[Northernhibee]

Since footballing returning from COVID we’ve had five managers, two DOF (or similar positions), two reviews, an endless supply of players come and go, and less and less success to go with it. This has all cost a lot of money.

Why have we gotten worse consistently despite all the nice words and action being taken?

[Unseen work]

In regards Campbell, is it no just because he’s been pish?

Maybe.

I just think it seems weird that we was almost a key figure and has all of a sudden vanished.

I’m not sure he’s been worse than some players that continue to start either

[ancient hibee]

If he comes in to lead recruitment then what are the current recruitment area doing? People getting paid a lot of money to do **** all. If someone new comes in I expect to see someone leave.
He’s the head of recruitment data analysis at Bournemouth.

[bingo70]

As shareholder I got an email from HSL requesting I submit my views on the Club statement, and how the club is run generally, prior to a pre-arranged meeting on Thursday. Presumably so the HSL people can collate and present the best of them to the Board. An opportunity for supporters to get their points across.

I started an email in response earlier this morning, but I'd be happy to include the views of others who may not have got that opportunity.

Anybody got anything constructive they'd like said? Serious questions, and bullet point format only, I think. Wednesday lunchtime deadline.

My threepence worth for now:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament.

1.It seems to me there's too many staff/ players on high wages who aren't contributing to the club, and there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this and what self-reflection is taking place at Board level, especially with regard to improve fanbase connection?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill. To what extent are these same attributes reflected at Board level? i.e. is what is happening on the park just a reflection of current management? Discuss.

Apologies for turning this back to Gray when there’s other threads about him but I don’t get how your first paragraph of your threepence worth isn’t contradicted by point 2?

Regardless of what else is going on at the club, there’s still some things that Gray has control over, being organised and playing as a team is one of them.

Other than that, I’d be interested to know the Gordon’s are of a mind to sell any of their shares and if it’s ever been explored for a way for the Black knights to buy more to take them above the SFA approved 30% shareholding.

[Steve88]

Just posted something similiar but my questions/points to the board would be around the following:

More transparency on the recruitment team we've assembled below MM since the Gordons tookover, ie the grunts doing all the work/scouting players...

has the recruitment team largely remained the same? completely new? what are their credentials ? past experience?

I seen a name - Calvin Charlton head of tech recruitment - yesterday and I've never heard of him before.

As much as we like to blame the head of recruitment, it's the team assembled and who report into the head of recruitment that do the work..

[Centre Hawf]

Alternatively the club could offer them a % of their remaining contract as a lump sum, and allow them to seek new employment in January.

Totally agree that the mood around the club will undoubtedly be being dragged down by all the bad eggs lingering.

Binning off these no-hopers sounds like great business sense to me 👍

I'd be surprised if this wasn't already floated to guys like Nohan Kenneh, Amos, Boruc. We still have to get them to take up the offer.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'd be surprised if this wasn't already floated to guys like Nohan Kenneh, Amos, Boruc. We still have to get them to take up the offer.

:agree:

For guys like Kenneh, he’d be in real danger of his next move being part time, so it would need to be a hell of a pay off to make it worth his while. In Amos’ case, it may even be the end of his career.

[Unseen work]

Just posted something similiar but my questions/points to the board would be around the following:

More transparency on the recruitment team we've assembled below MM since the Gordons tookover, ie the grunts doing all the work/scouting players...

has the recruitment team largely remained the same? completely new? what are their credentials ? past experience?

I seen a name - Calvin Charlton head of tech recruitment - yesterday and I've never heard of him before.

As much as we like to blame the head of recruitment, it's the team assembled and who report into the head of recruitment that do the work..

Calvin has been in the post for years, he’ll have had a big oversight in players identified and taken to manager or sporting director

[Centre Hawf]

:agree:

For guys like Kenneh, he’d be in real danger of his next move being part time, so it would need to be a hell of a pay off to make it worth his while. In Amos’ case, it may even be the end of his career.

Agreed. If Kenneh's wage is as high as people have insinuated before (and I've heard similar numbers myself) then he will be nowhere near that type of money in his next move. Something like low end English League 2 would probably still have him at 25% of the weekly wage on a short-ish deal.

These guys will take every penny they can. Our best hope is that literally anyone wants to take them on loan and pay us something towards their wages until their contract is up in the summer.

But we also can't just get rid of all these guys in one go, it's going to cost a bomb in pay-outs or covering wages for a period that it will likely hamper us in getting new players in. Harry McKirdy for example is clearly rotten, but if we can't get his entire wage off the books in January he'd be as well staying here as a body on the bench because it's unlikely we could recruit a quality replacement for the tiny margin of money we'd maybe claw back.

[Winston Ingram]

Calvin has been in the post for years, he’ll have had a big oversight in players identified and taken to manager or sporting director

He's gone now

[GreenCastle]

My questions would be..

Ben - how committed are you to Hibs? Do see yourself involved at this club the next few seasons?

Is there a plan for the Black Knights to have more say in the running of the club?

It was made clear about leadership and character of players coming into the club - it’s hard to recognise who is the captain or who the leaders are. Majority of the fan base aren’t happy with the current choice for club captain let alone a 3 year deal. Another example of disconnect and being out of touch with the fans and choosing someone to inspire the others and fans.

Why did we bring in 2 dodgy keepers ? 1 being a loan who has made numerous mistakes and a number 2 who seems to be just happy to pick up his wages.

The treatment of some players frozen out seems very poor - are these players being supported or still training with the club? Amos for example - surely the club should avoid signing players who aren’t going to contribute initially.

How are the club finances looking? Out the league cup early - bottom 6 / bottom 2 possible - no player sales, low half season ticket sales - surely the club are aware that the fans are totally fed up with an awful home record and 1 away league win in 2024.

What happened with the previous "fallout" with the Black Knights? Did the club ignore their advice ?

Why do keep rewarding below average performances in staff? New contracts for under performing players including the so called "captain of the club".

There is a massive disconnect between the fans, board, players and even supporters groups such as Block - what's the plan to unite everyone together?

Do the club acknowledge they are seriously in danger of being relegated?

Who were the decision makers behind Gray being appointed as manager ? Did the Black Knights advise against it as reported ?

Do the board realise there has been a serious drop of basic standards the last few years and Hibs have become a total laughing stock for many clubs. From admin errors to social media posts to statements like yesterday even the basic treatment of club legends and ex chairman - many feel like they have lost a connection with the club. A lack of professionalism with players arguing with fans, posts on social media and maybe petty but simple things Hibs TV commentary is substandard with nicknames for the players and calling the manager gaffer like they are our best mates.

[Unseen work]

He's gone now

I know, I was replying to the post saying he’s not heard his name before

[Hibernian Verse]

Is Calvin Charlton away?

[Coco Bryce]

The treatment of him, Amos and Campbell this season has been bizarre.

JDH - Nowhere to be seen, in for hearts game and gets on, not in squad again until the weekend.

Amos - played a lot pre season and now not featuring at all. He’s not a bad player and we’re not performing, why is he not getting a chance?

Campbell - seemed like he was going to be a key player under Gray but recently not been getting in the squad. Fallout between them?

I do think Doyle Hayes is a decent player too

Probably because he's *****!

[Springbank]

None of these guys should be near Hibs if we want to achieve our reasonable potential (a regular finish of 3-5 in the league, regular trips to Hampden, regular european involvement)

These are not unrealistic ambitions if Money Talks, in the context of our league.

Amos - was the 7th best midfielder on the park (out of 7) in the Kelty Hearts vs Hibs game. Recommendation -Please release. ASAP.

JDH - invisible. Would be better for Hibs if he moved on. Would be better for JDH to get out the comfort zone and play (or retire from the sport).

Campbell - a Hibs boy, who I believe cares and cares deeply about the club. Unlike the others I wouldn't release him outwith the transfer window (the others need to go ASAP)

I'm serious when I say releasing Amos, McKirdy, Youan, JDH would be a hugely positive pressing of the Reset Button, throughout the club.

It is a statement about standards, about consequences for poor attitude (Youan), for disrespect (Youan), for incredibly poor on-field performance (all)

It leaves behind a squad that is leaner, and which is more focussed, tight-knit, unified and professional.

Getting the bad eggs out the club, in an "afternoon of the long studs", would benefit the ethos at the club for years to come, and I mean years. It sets a standard

[Docker]

He’s the head of recruitment data analysis at Bournemouth.

This appointment, if true, would be important and could be the catalyst for the change in tactics on the park we need to get us away from our current outdated easy to play against SDG approach.
This is obviously a Black Knight driven change that I cannot believe will mean Bournemouths ahead of Recruitment data analysis is coming in to help recruit players to fit SDG’s style of play.
I think SDG will have been informed to get ready to adopt a Bournemouth style approach come January, with some players incoming in January to play that way.
May be the reason SDG has been kept on……do what your told and we will help you!

[andrew70]

This appointment, if true, would be important and could be the catalyst for the change in tactics on the park we need to get us away from our current outdated easy to play against SDG approach.
This is obviously a Black Knight driven change that I cannot believe will mean Bournemouths ahead of Recruitment data analysis is coming in to help recruit players to fit SDG’s style of play.
I think SDG will have been informed to get ready to adopt a Bournemouth style approach come January, with some players incoming in January to play that way.
May be the reason SDG has been kept on……do what your told and we will help you!

The only reason Gray has been kept on, for now, is because they didn’t have a replacement. Mackay vetoed.

He’ll be away soon enough.

He's been unable to coach a team to pass a ball so what makes you believe he’s capable of a ‘Bournemouth style’?

The BK group didn’t want either to begin with so I highly doubt the last twelve games will have changed their mind. They aren’t going to keep people just to do as they are told.

[Docker]

The only reason Gray has been kept on, for now, is because they didn’t have a replacement. Mackay vetoed.

He’ll be away soon enough.

He's been unable to coach a team to pass a ball so what makes you believe he’s capable of a ‘Bournemouth style’?

The BK group didn’t want either to begin with so I highly doubt the last twelve games will have changed their mind. They aren’t going to keep people just to do as they are told.

The fact SDG is kept on at the moment is not significant, it’s the Bournemouth link that is.
It’s the first real alignment we’ve seen between the clubs and this guy will be coming with a focus on the Bournemouth player profile rather than a brief from SDG on a profile to fit his system. The Black Knights won’t invest this resource unless it’s with a possible outcome of benefitting the Group.
We need a style/formation change and this will drive it.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

If we can’t get rid of Ben Kensell can we put him on performance related pay based on our current league position.

[WhileTheChief..]

The players are under contract. What is this “release them” you talk about?

You simply pay up the remainder of their contract and they’re gone.

Easily done.

[18Craig75]

Short and sweet -

Does Ben Kensell think his salary/package is good value to Hibs when looked at in the context of being more than the Aberdeen & Hearts CEO’s combined, considering Hearts are playing group stage European football again, and Aberdeen are joint top of the league. Both with higher turn over than us.

[Ringothedog]

You simply pay up the remainder of their contract and they’re gone.

Easily done.

And very expensive. Maybe we don’t have the money available up front to pay off those players just now and especially outwith a transfer window.

[Winston Ingram]

Is Calvin Charlton away?

Yes

[GreenPJ]

You simply pay up the remainder of their contract and they’re gone.

Easily done.

How do you calculate the variable pay element (e.g. appearance money, goal bonus, win bonus) if you are paying up contracts now? Its a very expensive route to go down as well as the fact that you need the player to agree to the package and recognising they would not be playing anywhere for between 7 - 10 weeks so not an easy sell. We need to get to January and then see how many we can move on. They need to budget to potentially release some players with a payment at end of Jan but that is in the players interest as they then become free agents from day 1 and so can go straight to another team.

We also need people to replace them - I would happy that we looked at some of our youth for some of the positions but that is also a risk that they aren't ready for first team football.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Just posted something similiar but my questions/points to the board would be around the following:

More transparency on the recruitment team we've assembled below MM since the Gordons tookover, ie the grunts doing all the work/scouting players...

has the recruitment team largely remained the same? completely new? what are their credentials ? past experience?

I seen a name - Calvin Charlton head of tech recruitment - yesterday and I've never heard of him before.

As much as we like to blame the head of recruitment, it's the team assembled and who report into the head of recruitment that do the work..

Not disputing your experience bit harsh on Calvin who I think has been pretty prominent and on social media albeit (as I understand it) in an analyst type role perhaps he’s been promoted. Certainly been around the club for a number of years.

[JimBHibees]

We’d not be able to field a squad if that was the problem.

Yes a long list if that is the criteria

[Northernhibee]

What is the structure in terms of hierarchy and who answers to who within the club from first team coach upwards?

[dunfyhibby]

Can you ask Kensell to define the process and why should we trust it?

[BSEJVT]

As a long time advocate of HSL I am increasingly concerned and disappointed at their recent statements.

Their original mandate was to provide a blocking vote in the event of any hostile takeover.

As everyone knows they failed to achieve a level of shareholding necessary to do that.

What they were never intended to do was to insert themselves in the running of the club.

A lot of their recent stuff around the BK investment and this seems more about an ego trip for their board and getting their names and personal views in the media and seems a huge departure from their original mandate.

I get that they have felt let down by the Gordon takeover and the changes to their goalposts and tbh I do to, but for good or evil the support failed to sufficiently back HSL and that ship has now sailed.

The wider support by their lack of commitment to HSL strongly voiced that they did not want a FOH type arrangement and HSL need to stop pretending they do and stop trying to insert themselves in the running of the club especially when they don’t have the voting power to effect any changes.

[BILLYHIBS]

As a long time advocate of HSL I am increasingly concerned and disappointed at their recent statements.

Their original mandate was to provide a blocking vote in the event of any hostile takeover.

As everyone knows they failed to achieve a level of shareholding necessary to do that.

What they were never intended to do was to insert themselves in the running of the club.

A lot of their recent stuff around the BK investment and this seems more about an ego trip for their board and getting their names and personal views in the media and seems a huge departure from their original mandate.

I get that they have felt let down by the Gordon takeover and the changes to their goalposts and tbh I do to, but for good or evil the support failed to sufficiently back HSL and that ship has now sailed.

The wider support by their lack of commitment to HSL strongly voiced that they did not want a FOH type arrangement and HSL need to stop pretending they do and stop trying to insert themselves in the running of the club especially when they don’t have the voting power to effect any changes.

Excellent post

Makes me think what is the point of being a subscriber to HSL ?

No one can ever own 100% of Hibernian Football Club

Maintains a small percentage of fan interest as well as the other small independent share holders albeit severely diluted as a result of the Gordon takeover

The possibility of oversubscribed contributions being made available for the purchase of any small holders holdings should they become available or having said funds made available to the club to strengthen the first team ?

Free entry to a random draw for Hospitality places at selected home matches

[Pagan Hibernia]

As a long time advocate of HSL I am increasingly concerned and disappointed at their recent statements.

Their original mandate was to provide a blocking vote in the event of any hostile takeover.

As everyone knows they failed to achieve a level of shareholding necessary to do that.

What they were never intended to do was to insert themselves in the running of the club.

A lot of their recent stuff around the BK investment and this seems more about an ego trip for their board and getting their names and personal views in the media and seems a huge departure from their original mandate.

I get that they have felt let down by the Gordon takeover and the changes to their goalposts and tbh I do to, but for good or evil the support failed to sufficiently back HSL and that ship has now sailed.

The wider support by their lack of commitment to HSL strongly voiced that they did not want a FOH type arrangement and HSL need to stop pretending they do and stop trying to insert themselves in the running of the club especially when they don’t have the voting power to effect any changes.

I don't disagree with much of what you're saying but in defence of HSL they are still a shareholder and they still represent a lot of Hibs fans so they still do have some responsibility to those people. Its a difficult balancing act for them.

[Since90+2]

Short and sweet -

Does Ben Kensell think his salary/package is good value to Hibs when looked at in the context of being more than the Aberdeen & Hearts CEO’s combined, considering Hearts are playing group stage European football again, and Aberdeen are joint top of the league. Both with higher turn over than us.

Is that correct? BK is paid more than his equivalents at Hearts and Aberdeen combined?

If so, that's definitely something that should be raised with the board. How that can be justified, even forgetting they are above us in the league, they are both bigger businesses from a financial viewpoint so would be interesting to hear the boards thoughts on that.

[.Sean.]

All these questions being directed to Kensell, did someone no post he’s away on holiday to the Caribbean or something?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

What influence/interference does Ian Gordon have at the club in footballing matters? And is he aware that his continued involvement in footballing matters will see him become hated by all and sundry? Is he aware he is vastly underqualified to be recruiting players?

[Chorley Hibee]

All the questions in the world to these chancers are immaterial.

I wouldn't believe a single word from their mouths.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

What was the outcome of the review? Did they anticipate that the outcome of the review, and the solution to our problems, would be the chairman’s pal, a retiring goalkeeper already at the club, a coach already at the club and another coach that was already at the club?

[Paulie Walnuts]

All these questions being directed to Kensell, did someone no post he’s away on holiday to the Caribbean or something?

:agree:

It was said on here. Just left.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

All these questions being directed to Kensell, did someone no post he’s away on holiday to the Caribbean or something?

Jamaican me angry now, Sean…

[BILLYHIBS]

All these questions being directed to Kensell, did someone no post he’s away on holiday to the Caribbean or something?

He is away with JN but don’t worry will be back for the 23rd 😀

[Hibees1973]

Can you confirm (YES/NO)...does Ian Gordon still play a role in the recruitment of players.

If he has stopped, when did it stop.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Can you confirm (YES/NO)...does Ian Gordon still play a role in the recruitment of players.

If he has stopped, when did it stop.

That’s the question I want answered more than anything else.

[GreenPJ]

Can you confirm (YES/NO)...does Ian Gordon still play a role in the recruitment of players.

If he has stopped, when did it stop.

Agreed that he should not be driving player identification but presumably as 'owner' he would still have a role in the recruitment process - agreeing/approving budgets?

[GreenCastle]

All the questions in the world to these chancers are immaterial.

I wouldn't believe a single word from their mouths.

That is also very true.

Zero trust in them after the constant failings.

[Daniel 1875]

As a long time advocate of HSL I am increasingly concerned and disappointed at their recent statements.

Their original mandate was to provide a blocking vote in the event of any hostile takeover.

As everyone knows they failed to achieve a level of shareholding necessary to do that.

What they were never intended to do was to insert themselves in the running of the club.

A lot of their recent stuff around the BK investment and this seems more about an ego trip for their board and getting their names and personal views in the media and seems a huge departure from their original mandate.

I get that they have felt let down by the Gordon takeover and the changes to their goalposts and tbh I do to, but for good or evil the support failed to sufficiently back HSL and that ship has now sailed.

The wider support by their lack of commitment to HSL strongly voiced that they did not want a FOH type arrangement and HSL need to stop pretending they do and stop trying to insert themselves in the running of the club especially when they don’t have the voting power to effect any changes.

Would you rather Hibernian Supporters did nothing to engage with the club and/or share the views of our members with Hibs?

There’s no attempt whatsoever to ‘insert ourselves in the running of the club’ - simply to engage and pass on the thoughts of the hundreds of members who have been in touch with us asking us to do just that.

[Trinity Hibee]

Would you rather Hibernian Supporters did nothing to engage with the club and/or share the views of our members with Hibs?

There’s no attempt whatsoever to ‘insert ourselves in the running of the club’ - simply to engage and pass on the thoughts of the hundreds of members who have been in touch with us asking us to do just that.

Agreed. Not sure how this has been turned back on HSL here

[Northernhibee]

I’m having lasagne for tea tonight, could you recommend a nice mid priced wine to go with it?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I’m having lasagne for tea tonight, could you recommend a nice mid priced wine to go with it?

The trick is to go dirt cheap with higher volume.

[Northernhibee]

The trick is to go dirt cheap with higher volume.

We’ve already covered the recruitment strategy, I want to know about a nice Chablis, ta

[Bostonhibby]

I’m having lasagne for tea tonight, could you recommend a nice mid priced wine to go with it?Oh no! Cue the club email trying to sell me cheap plonk at "premium" prices.......[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

to engage and pass on the thoughts of the hundreds of members who have been in touch with us asking us to do just that.

Sounds like a fun-filled evening!!!

Surprised the club feel the need to be honest, I’d have thought the fans feelings are pretty well known already.

The statement the club issued already acknowledges the frustration, so I don’t really see what’s to be gained from this?

[Hibernian Verse]

Sounds like a fun-filled evening!!!

Surprised the club feel the need to be honest, I’d have thought the fans feelings are pretty well known already.

The statement the club issued already acknowledges the frustration, so I don’t really see what’s to be gained from this?

They only need to open Hibs net.

[GreenPJ]

Sounds like a fun-filled evening!!!

Surprised the club feel the need to be honest, I’d have thought the fans feelings are pretty well known already.

The statement the club issued already acknowledges the frustration, so I don’t really see what’s to be gained from this?

I thought it was a standing meeting with this now being added to the agenda?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Sounds like a fun-filled evening!!!

Surprised the club feel the need to be honest, I’d have thought the fans feelings are pretty well known already.

The statement the club issued already acknowledges the frustration, so I don’t really see what’s to be gained from this?

The meeting was already in the diary just happened to coincide with events.

Sorry PJ didn’t see your post - what PJ said…

[hibeerealist]

Can you confirm (YES/NO)...does Ian Gordon still play a role in the recruitment of players.

If he has stopped, when did it stop.

Not stopped and only the BK's will be able to stop him.

[HoboHarry]

Not stopped and only the BK's will be able to stop him.
What info do you have to back up your statement?

[gegs70]

Does David or Malky have any day in the players brought in? Bottom line is Gray has got to play players that he trusts to do a job, you've got to hope that someof the players sitting on the sidelines would be busting a gut in training to be part of the squad to be in the shop window? Whoever puts these average players on on longterm contracts needs to be sacked!

[Unseen work]

Is it true Harry Mckirdy lost all his football ability when he cut his ponytail off?

[Lendo]

If there are disruptive & disinterested players who just want away - let them go, release them now.

And if there are others drawing a wage who have nothing to contribute at the required level - release them.

Elie Youan, Luke Amos, Harry McKirdy, Jake Doyle Hayes - that type of player.

They are doing themselves and their reputations no favours by being here, and proving they are bottom-of-the-league standard footballers.

If the club feels that they are doing the club harmony an untold amount of harm with their performance level, I would support them all being released immediately

This would leave behind a core group who are focussed, committed, serious and professional - unlike all of the above. That's the kind of statement we need to see, as a serious sporting institution, with core values and standards

Thats not really how contracts work….

[eastmainsmsh]

If we can’t get rid of Ben Kensell can we put him on performance related pay based on our current league position.

Put Kensell on Suntan Leave

[Archie70]

How has the club progressed since the "root and branch" review in May?

Is there any truth in the recent media criticism regarding the way we treated the likes of Stevenson, Hanlon & Petrie and if not why hasn't it been challenged. If it is true provide an explanation.

How many years of incrimental decline before those in charge acknowledge they aren't up to the job, do the honourable thing and walk away or will it be allowed to continue indefinitely

[stalbanshibby]

OK. Well I'm OP for this thread, and I did say cut off lunchtime Wednesday but I think there's quite enough here already. Thanks all for your feedback.

The major themes seem to be:

Influence of BK group going forward?
Transparency around current structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach?
Who are the current people working in Recruitment and when will Garvan Stewart's brief start?
Role of Ian Gordon.
Ben Kensell - value for money - especially like the post about more salary than the CEO equivalents at Hearts and Aberdeen combined.

I'll post the email I send to HSL on here prior to sending it to them. I've no idea whether this will go anywhere, but I just thought I'd give the opportunity for peeps to have their say - those who didn't get the original HSL email.

[CropleyWasGod]

OK. Well I'm OP for this thread, and I did say cut off lunchtime Wednesday but I think there's quite enough here already. Thanks all for your feedback.

The major themes seem to be:

Influence of BK group going forward?
Transparency around current structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach?
Who are the current people working in Recruitment and when will Garvan Stewart's brief start?
Role of Ian Gordon.
Ben Kensell - value for money - especially like the post about more salary than the CEO equivalents at Hearts and Aberdeen combined.

I'll post the email I send to HSL on here prior to sending it to them. I've no idea whether this will go anywhere, but I just thought I'd give the opportunity for peeps to have their say - those who didn't get the original HSL email.

Be careful with that one, as I don't think it's true.

The accounts aren't completely clear, but making a bold statement like that could undermine your point. A better way might be "salary well in excess of that paid to CEO's at ....." etc etc.

[18Craig75]

Be careful with that one, as I don't think it's true.

The accounts aren't completely clear, but making a bold statement like that could undermine your point. A better way might be "salary well in excess of that paid to CEO's at ....." etc etc.

I made the point and agree with you here. I heard the stat on the radio, it might’ve been Mikey Stewart. I haven’t fact checked the combined part. I think the question of whether or not he has been good value for his salary is pertinent enough without the little dig!

[Scotty Leither]

Would you rather Hibernian Supporters did nothing to engage with the club and/or share the views of our members with Hibs?

There’s no attempt whatsoever to ‘insert ourselves in the running of the club’ - simply to engage and pass on the thoughts of the hundreds of members who have been in touch with us asking us to do just that.

What’s the feeling of HSL if the Board refuses to answer questions about the team and specifically recruitment Daniel?

Genuine question to you, mate.

[DarlingtonHibee]

Is it not a "pre arranged " meeting 🤔 😕

[stalbanshibby]

Be careful with that one, as I don't think it's true.

The accounts aren't completely clear, but making a bold statement like that could undermine your point. A better way might be "salary well in excess of that paid to CEO's at ....." etc etc.


Fair dos. There was a guy on another thread who checked the accounts and said he was on £326K plus some sort of pension payment - not far short of £1K a day. Mikey Stewart was gobsmacked at what he was on and mentioned it on during Sportsound on Saturday but didn't say a number but alluded it was astronomical for a club like Hibs.


Everyone's in the firing line when the team are playing *****, but he seems to be a singularly disliked man amongst the Hibs support. used car salesman type by all accounts - never met the fella.

[stalbanshibby]

Is it not a "pre arranged " meeting 🤔 😕


According to HSL it is:

As a Hibernian Supporters board we are speaking to the club on Thursday, in a pre-arranged meeting, to share the views and concerns of our members as we head into the international break at the bottom of the league.

[Winston Ingram]

Is it true Harry Mckirdy lost all his football ability when he cut his ponytail off?

Tbf, I think it fell off more than being cut off👀

[The Modfather]

Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)

[stalbanshibby]

Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)

Good point. Other teams do it, we get in journeymen/ has-beens. I suppose Rudi is the exception here.

[007]

As shareholder I got an email from HSL requesting I submit my views on the Club statement, and how the club is run generally, prior to a pre-arranged meeting on Thursday. Presumably so the HSL people can collate and present the best of them to the Board. An opportunity for supporters to get their points across.

I started an email in response earlier this morning, but I'd be happy to include the views of others who may not have got that opportunity.

Anybody got anything constructive they'd like said? Serious questions, and bullet point format only, I think. Wednesday lunchtime deadline.

My threepence worth for now:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament.

1.It seems to me there's too many staff/ players on high wages who aren't contributing to the club, and there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this and what self-reflection is taking place at Board level, especially with regard to improve fanbase connection?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill. To what extent are these same attributes reflected at Board level? i.e. is what is happening on the park just a reflection of current management? Discuss.

Thanks.

It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with).

Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?

[stalbanshibby]

I’m having lasagne for tea tonight, could you recommend a nice mid priced wine to go with it?

On his salary, not sure Ben does mid price wines. MacPherson looks as though he might though.

[stalbanshibby]

Thanks.

It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with).

Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?

Thank you.

Good question. I'm wondering whether Ekpiteta/ O'Hora are Malky's picks, and SDG has been told to try to gel them into a back four. Without knowing how it works at ER it's difficult to know though. Hard act to follow since Paul Hanlon left. Tom English (I know I know - but I listened to the Scottish football podcast yesterday, and he has a point) is of the opinion they're just not good enough for SPFL - and why would they be coming from lower league English football. Bursik is a train crash. Miller prone to defensive errors.

[stalbanshibby]

OK. Well I'm OP for this thread, and I did say cut off lunchtime Wednesday but I think there's quite enough here already. Thanks all for your feedback.

The major themes seem to be:

Influence of BK group going forward?
Transparency around current structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach?
Who are the current people working in Recruitment and when will Garvan Stewart's brief start?
Role of Ian Gordon.
Ben Kensell - value for money - especially like the post about more salary than the CEO equivalents at Hearts and Aberdeen combined.

I'll post the email I send to HSL on here prior to sending it to them. I've no idea whether this will go anywhere, but I just thought I'd give the opportunity for peeps to have their say - those who didn't get the original HSL email.

This is the email I've put together that I propose to send to HSL early afternoon today. Please don't shoot me if I've misrepresented or missed any your views, but that said I'd happily take any comments. Like said earlier I'm not sure how much this will fly, and even if it does and some of the questions are put, I'm not sure about the honesty of the Board either, as they all seem to be more interested in protecting their own positions. But what can you do?

Hello,


Thanks for the invitation and opportunity to submit questions for the Hibs Board for your meeting with them on Thursday. I’m sure you’ll have received lots of feedback from supporters (mostly irate I imagine), and here’s my contribution. Please note I also invited supporters on Hibs.net (http://hibs.net/) who may not have received your invitation for their views, and I have done my best to collate them, as follows:


To the Hibs Board:


Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament. My hope is that the Board are doing everything they can to support David Gray rather than point the finger at him, because the failings at the club seem to me to be collective. It’s also true to say that we’ve changed managers too many times recently, which has done nothing to steady the (sinking) ship.


My questions are:

1.It seems to me there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this, and what, if anything, do they propose to do about it?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill and professionalism. Does the Board agree that what is happening on the park is merely a reflection of mismanagement at all levels within the Club, and if so what plans are in place to establish a more cohesive transparent structure from Board level down to first team coach and players?


3. According to the BBC/ Mail, Garvan Stewart is being brought in from Black Knight Group to oversee/ overhaul recruitment at the club. Is this an admission of the current and previous incumbents failings in this area, or is it seen as an urgent problem and an opportune area for closer involvement with Black Knight Group? Or both?


4. The fans pay good money to come watch the club week in week out. In fact, as you know, without the fans, there’s no club. However there seems to be a lack of transparency around current Board structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach, especially in terms of recruitment? What plans do the Board have to make this more transparent, and connect more with the fanbase?


5. What is Ian Gordon’s current role, other than owner? How closely is he involved with decision making, especially with regard to player recruitment?.


6 Is Ben Kensell value for money? I understand he has helped increase club turnover with regard to the corporate facilities and sponsorship at the club, but at the same time seems to be alienating the ordinary punter. Without naming numbers his salary has been widely mentioned in the media recently. Should he be on performance related pay (and by performance I mean the football team), and indeed should all personnel be on performance related pay based on league position? This does assume money is the only motivator - whatever happened to fight, passion and desire and playing for the badge - Hibs is a fantastic club with great history - do the current playing squad understand this or is the bubble they live in just too financially comfortable?


7.Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers / journeymen/ has-beens instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)


8. It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with). Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?


Many thanks and good luck with the meeting!!

[CentreLine]

Taking Celtic and The Rangers out of the equation, our player salaries would appear to be compatible with those at the top end in Scotland. Despite that, we seem to constantly lose out on our main signing targets and our players seem less than motivated on the pitch.

We were told, at the time the late Ron Gordon took over at the club that our player bonus system was changing significantly. Was there a change, is our present bonus system truly compatible with other top Scottish clubs and has that change been popular with all of our playing staff?

[BILLYHIBS]

This is the email I've put together that I propose to send to HSL early afternoon today. Please don't shoot me if I've misrepresented or missed any your views, but that said I'd happily take any comments. Like said earlier I'm not sure how much this will fly, and even if it does and some of the questions are put, I'm not sure about the honesty of the Board either, as they all seem to be more interested in protecting their own positions. But what can you do?

Hello,


Thanks for the invitation and opportunity to submit questions for the Hibs Board for your meeting with them on Thursday. I’m sure you’ll have received lots of feedback from supporters (mostly irate I imagine), and here’s my contribution. Please note I also invited supporters on Hibs.net (http://hibs.net/) who may not have received your invitation for their views, and I have done my best to collate them, as follows:


To the Hibs Board:


Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament. My hope is that the Board are doing everything they can to support David Gray rather than point the finger at him, because the failings at the club seem to me to be collective. It’s also true to say that we’ve changed managers too many times recently, which has done nothing to steady the (sinking) ship.


My questions are:

1.It seems to me there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this, and what, if anything, do they propose to do about it?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill and professionalism. Does the Board agree that what is happening on the park is merely a reflection of mismanagement at all levels within the Club, and if so what plans are in place to establish a more cohesive transparent structure from Board level down to first team coach and players?


3. According to the BBC/ Mail, Garvan Stewart is being brought in from Black Knight Group to oversee/ overhaul recruitment at the club. Is this an admission of the current and previous incumbents failings in this area, or is it seen as an urgent problem and an opportune area for closer involvement with Black Knight Group? Or both?


4. The fans pay good money to come watch the club week in week out. In fact, as you know, without the fans, there’s no club. However there seems to be a lack of transparency around current Board structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach, especially in terms of recruitment? What plans do the Board have to make this more transparent, and connect more with the fanbase?


5. What is Ian Gordon’s current role, other than owner? How closely is he involved with decision making, especially with regard to player recruitment?.


6 Is Ben Kensell value for money? I understand he has helped increase club turnover with regard to the corporate facilities and sponsorship at the club, but at the same time seems to be alienating the ordinary punter. Without naming numbers his salary has been widely mentioned in the media recently. Should he be on performance related pay (and by performance I mean the football team), and indeed should all personnel be on performance related pay based on league position?


7.Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers / journeymen/ has-beens instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)


8. It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with). Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?


Many thanks and good luck with the meeting!!




Agree with this massive disconnect between the club and the fans Hibs feel like an old girlfriend just now and the fans are treated like a cash cow no transparency between the club and the fans and certainly no recognised style of play everything seems to be cobbled together hope for the best and no plan B I have played in more organised amateur teams a total embarrassment for a professional football club with a reputation for the Hibs style of playing fast exciting entertaining attractive attacking football

Congratulations I have never heard of Ryan Schofield every day is a school day

Good letter

[sauzee1989]

Everything from top to bottom is off with the club right now even the club shop is a farce. Lead up to Christmas and it’s got the smallest amount of choice in years. Almost like they don’t want to make money

[stalbanshibby]

Agree with this massive disconnect between the club and the fans Hibs feel like an old girlfriend just now and the fans are treated like a cash cow no transparency between the club and the fans and certainly no recognised style of play everything seems to be cobbled together hope for the best and no plan B I have played in more organised amateur teams a total embarrassment for a professional football club with a reputation for the Hibs style of playing fast exciting entertaining attractive attacking football

Congratulations I have never heard of Ryan Schofield every day is a school day

Good letter

Thanks. You sum it up perfectly.

[GreenCastle]

Agree with this massive disconnect between the club and the fans Hibs feel like an old girlfriend just now and the fans are treated like a cash cow no transparency between the club and the fans and certainly no recognised style of play everything seems to be cobbled together hope for the best and no plan B I have played in more organised amateur teams a total embarrassment for a professional football club with a reputation for the Hibs style of playing fast exciting entertaining attractive attacking football

Congratulations I have never heard of Ryan Schofield every day is a school day

Good letter

Was it “working together” groups that were set up by Dempster and others ?

Feels like fans are a cash cow (the irony) just now and management and players are just pocketing fans good money monthly.

Could a new “working together” group be established to grow links ?

Like I said on another thread…

It’s The board v Fans v Block 7 v players and no one is pulling in the same direction so no wonder the club is so disjointed.

The lack of leadership from the club and general poor understanding of reading the room - the feelings of fans on social media - the timing of match worn shirts - the emails about ££ from fans is just all in poor taste. Of course if winning a lot of this wouldn’t matter but when we are failing so badly it will get magnified more.

[BILLYHIBS]

Was it “working together” groups that were set up by Dempster and others ?

Feels like fans are a cash cow (the irony) just now and management and players are just pocketing fans good money monthly.

Could a new “working together” group be established to grow links ?

Like I said on another thread…

It’s The board v Fans v Block 7 v players and no one is pulling in the same direction so no wonder the club is so disjointed.

The lack of leadership from the club and general poor understanding of reading the room - the feelings of fans on social media - the timing of match worn shirts - the emails about ££ from fans is just all in poor taste. Of course if winning a lot of this wouldn’t matter but when we are failing so badly it will get magnified more.
:agree:

Agree that the Gordon’s have totally failed to read the room from Day 1

To us fans the number 1 priority is the best available team on the pitch for the first team at all times

This was probably bottom of their list of priorities a massive own goal imho that is coming back to bite us big time

[Heisenberg]

:agree:

Agree that the Gordon’s have totally failed to read the room from Day 1

To us fans the number 1 priority is the best available team on the pitch for the first team at all times

This was probably bottom of their list of priorities a massive own goal imho that is coming back to bite us big time

I don’t think it was necessarily that it was bottom of their list of priorities. It was more that they had a totally mental vision of how to run the football department which involved Ian Gordon signing all the players that he wanted while we hired totally inexperienced head coaches and Lee Johnson.

Thankfully it seems they are now letting people who know what they are doing get involved, hopefully it’s not too late.

[blackpoolhibs]

This is the email I've put together that I propose to send to HSL early afternoon today. Please don't shoot me if I've misrepresented or missed any your views, but that said I'd happily take any comments. Like said earlier I'm not sure how much this will fly, and even if it does and some of the questions are put, I'm not sure about the honesty of the Board either, as they all seem to be more interested in protecting their own positions. But what can you do?

Hello,


Thanks for the invitation and opportunity to submit questions for the Hibs Board for your meeting with them on Thursday. I’m sure you’ll have received lots of feedback from supporters (mostly irate I imagine), and here’s my contribution. Please note I also invited supporters on Hibs.net (http://hibs.net/) who may not have received your invitation for their views, and I have done my best to collate them, as follows:


To the Hibs Board:


Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament. My hope is that the Board are doing everything they can to support David Gray rather than point the finger at him, because the failings at the club seem to me to be collective. It’s also true to say that we’ve changed managers too many times recently, which has done nothing to steady the (sinking) ship.


My questions are:

1.It seems to me there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this, and what, if anything, do they propose to do about it?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill and professionalism. Does the Board agree that what is happening on the park is merely a reflection of mismanagement at all levels within the Club, and if so what plans are in place to establish a more cohesive transparent structure from Board level down to first team coach and players?


3. According to the BBC/ Mail, Garvan Stewart is being brought in from Black Knight Group to oversee/ overhaul recruitment at the club. Is this an admission of the current and previous incumbents failings in this area, or is it seen as an urgent problem and an opportune area for closer involvement with Black Knight Group? Or both?


4. The fans pay good money to come watch the club week in week out. In fact, as you know, without the fans, there’s no club. However there seems to be a lack of transparency around current Board structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach, especially in terms of recruitment? What plans do the Board have to make this more transparent, and connect more with the fanbase?


5. What is Ian Gordon’s current role, other than owner? How closely is he involved with decision making, especially with regard to player recruitment?.


6 Is Ben Kensell value for money? I understand he has helped increase club turnover with regard to the corporate facilities and sponsorship at the club, but at the same time seems to be alienating the ordinary punter. Without naming numbers his salary has been widely mentioned in the media recently. Should he be on performance related pay (and by performance I mean the football team), and indeed should all personnel be on performance related pay based on league position? This does assume money is the only motivator - whatever happened to fight, passion and desire and playing for the badge - Hibs is a fantastic club with great history - do the current playing squad understand this or is the bubble they live in just too financially comfortable?


7.Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers / journeymen/ has-beens instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)


8. It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with). Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?


Many thanks and good luck with the meeting!!




I dont think so, he was the only player in the world that they wanted for that fee, wages and suitability.

[BILLYHIBS]

I don’t think it was necessarily that it was bottom of their list of priorities. It was more that they had a totally mental vision of how to run the football department which involved Ian Gordon signing all the players that he wanted while we hired totally inexperienced head coaches and Lee Johnson.

Thankfully it seems they are now letting people who know what they are doing get involved, hopefully it’s not too late.
My concern was that they kept signing unproven young ‘ projects ‘ for the future where the need was for the here and now the first team was crying out for battle hardened experienced starters to hit the ground running to keep the momentum going and not go into decline which it did but hey the corporate side was flying and not all projects were a success and don’t get me started on their Managerial f#ck ups :greengrin

[GreenCastle]

:agree:

Agree that the Gordon’s have totally failed to read the room from Day 1

To us fans the number 1 priority is the best available team on the pitch for the first team at all times

This was probably bottom of their list of priorities a massive own goal imho that is coming back to bite us big time

I also wonder whether the damage of fan / board relationship is past being able to fix.

Would dans even trust or want to work with those currently there ? Probably not.

So we are in a situation where fans don’t trust those running the club - want change - not getting much changed and as a result we have all this frustration especially as the team is performing so poorly.

[matty_f]

:agree:

It was said on here. Just left.

I know he’s entitled to holidays etc and I genuinely have no issue with it, but given the statement talked about everyone working hard, it’s very much like the scene in The Naked Gun where Frank Drebin tells Nordberg’s wife, at Nordberg’s hospital bedside, “we won’t stop until we catch the hit that did this. Now let’s get lunch.”

[Springbank]

This is the email I've put together that I propose to send to HSL early afternoon today. Please don't shoot me if I've misrepresented or missed any your views, but that said I'd happily take any comments. Like said earlier I'm not sure how much this will fly, and even if it does and some of the questions are put, I'm not sure about the honesty of the Board either, as they all seem to be more interested in protecting their own positions. But what can you do?

Hello,


Thanks for the invitation and opportunity to submit questions for the Hibs Board for your meeting with them on Thursday. I’m sure you’ll have received lots of feedback from supporters (mostly irate I imagine), and here’s my contribution. Please note I also invited supporters on Hibs.net (http://hibs.net/) who may not have received your invitation for their views, and I have done my best to collate them, as follows:


To the Hibs Board:


Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament. My hope is that the Board are doing everything they can to support David Gray rather than point the finger at him, because the failings at the club seem to me to be collective. It’s also true to say that we’ve changed managers too many times recently, which has done nothing to steady the (sinking) ship.


My questions are:

1.It seems to me there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this, and what, if anything, do they propose to do about it?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill and professionalism. Does the Board agree that what is happening on the park is merely a reflection of mismanagement at all levels within the Club, and if so what plans are in place to establish a more cohesive transparent structure from Board level down to first team coach and players?


3. According to the BBC/ Mail, Garvan Stewart is being brought in from Black Knight Group to oversee/ overhaul recruitment at the club. Is this an admission of the current and previous incumbents failings in this area, or is it seen as an urgent problem and an opportune area for closer involvement with Black Knight Group? Or both?


4. The fans pay good money to come watch the club week in week out. In fact, as you know, without the fans, there’s no club. However there seems to be a lack of transparency around current Board structure and comms lines from Board to first team coach, especially in terms of recruitment? What plans do the Board have to make this more transparent, and connect more with the fanbase?


5. What is Ian Gordon’s current role, other than owner? How closely is he involved with decision making, especially with regard to player recruitment?.


6 Is Ben Kensell value for money? I understand he has helped increase club turnover with regard to the corporate facilities and sponsorship at the club, but at the same time seems to be alienating the ordinary punter. Without naming numbers his salary has been widely mentioned in the media recently. Should he be on performance related pay (and by performance I mean the football team), and indeed should all personnel be on performance related pay based on league position? This does assume money is the only motivator - whatever happened to fight, passion and desire and playing for the badge - Hibs is a fantastic club with great history - do the current playing squad understand this or is the bubble they live in just too financially comfortable?


7.Do the club think our youth academy provides good value for money? Are managers actively encouraged to promote home grown youngsters wherever possible as part of their remit? The evidence seems to point to that not being the case and as a result managers look to short term, experienced, solutions/squad fillers / journeymen/ has-beens instead (Devlin, Schofield, ALF, Gayle, Amos, McGeady, Hoillet etc)


8. It is often said that a good team is built on a solid defence yet we never seem to spend any money on the defence / goalkeeper. Why? (I appreciate that attacking players cost more but that doesn't preclude paying transfer fees to get better defenders instead of the loan players and free transfers we usually end up with). Is this likely to change anytime soon? For example, will any of the reported money we were prepared to spend on Luke McCowan be used to bring in a goalkeeper / any defenders in January?


Many thanks and good luck with the meeting!!




Excellent note, thanks for pulling it together

My only thing would be to ask about standards
Something like "Do we need one clear piece of action to break with the recent past and show everyone (inside the club and outside) that we are setting & demanding higher standards from now on"?

An example would be to free a player or players that are deemed to be unprofessional or disruptive

[Hibees1973]

Hearing very strong indicators of a serious split with the directors around McKay.

Another question to ask.

Some partners/sponsors are rumoured to have misgivings around the appointment of McKay and removing their support of Hibs. Is this true and would the board really consider appointing McKay as manager, even for an interim period, given these companies are likely to object.

[Trinity Hibee]

Hearing very strong indicators of a serious split with the directors around McKay.

Another question to ask.

Some partners/sponsors are rumoured to have misgivings around the appointment of McKay and removing their support of Hibs. Is this true and would the board really consider appointing McKay as manager, even for an interim period, given these companies are likely to object.

If sponsors weren’t happy why wouldn’t they have withdrawn their support when he was first appointed? Surely makes no difference whether he’s manager or sporting director if they are that offended by him being at Hibs?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Hearing very strong indicators of a serious split with the directors around McKay.

Another question to ask.

Some partners/sponsors are rumoured to have misgivings around the appointment of McKay and removing their support of Hibs. Is this true and would the board really consider appointing McKay as manager, even for an interim period, given these companies are likely to object.

Whilst I have the same issues as the sponsors apparently have with Mackay, it’s a bit of a farce if sponsors are dictating on football matters. IF that’s the case, I’d be telling them to GTF.

[GreenPJ]

Hearing very strong indicators of a serious split with the directors around McKay.

Another question to ask.

Some partners/sponsors are rumoured to have misgivings around the appointment of McKay and removing their support of Hibs. Is this true and would the board really consider appointing McKay as manager, even for an interim period, given these companies are likely to object.

Are the misgivings around McKay in relation to his past actions or his ability as Director of Football?

[Trinity Hibee]

Are the misgivings around McKay in relation to his past actions or his ability as Director of Football?

Surely sponsors wouldn’t be privy to MM’s performance as DoF so it must be down to his past?

[GreenCastle]

I know he’s entitled to holidays etc and I genuinely have no issue with it, but given the statement talked about everyone working hard, it’s very much like the scene in The Naked Gun where Frank Drebin tells Nordberg’s wife, at Nordberg’s hospital bedside, “we won’t stop until we catch the hit that did this. Now let’s get lunch.”

Haha ! Brilliant !

[Tyler Durden]

Are the misgivings around McKay in relation to his past actions or his ability as Director of Football?

They are made up fiction, so you can decide for yourself.

Some amount of nonsense being spread in recent weeks.

[Tyler Durden]

Thank you.

Good question. I'm wondering whether Ekpiteta/ O'Hora are Malky's picks, and SDG has been told to try to gel them into a back four. Without knowing how it works at ER it's difficult to know though. Hard act to follow since Paul Hanlon left. Tom English (I know I know - but I listened to the Scottish football podcast yesterday, and he has a point) is of the opinion they're just not good enough for SPFL - and why would they be coming from lower league English football. Bursik is a train crash. Miller prone to defensive errors.

Tom English can GTF.

Marv for example has a very similar profile to Frankie Kent at Hearts. As does Obita. A perfectly good level and market for teams like Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - players who have played League One and Championship football.

Aberdeen signed a centre back from Shelbourne, who has played every game this year I think. Is that good enough for SPFL? Where does he think Motherwell and Dundee and Killie are signing players from?

He's a clown.

[GreenPJ]

Tom English can GTF.

Marv for example has a very similar profile to Frankie Kent at Hearts. As does Obita. A perfectly good level and market for teams like Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - players who have played League One and Championship football.

Aberdeen signed a centre back from Shelbourne, who has played every game this year I think. Is that good enough for SPFL? Where does he think Motherwell and Dundee and Killie are signing players from?

He's a clown.

:agree:

[superfurryhibby]

Tom English can GTF.

Marv for example has a very similar profile to Frankie Kent at Hearts. As does Obita. A perfectly good level and market for teams like Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen - players who have played League One and Championship football.

Aberdeen signed a centre back from Shelbourne, who has played every game this year I think. Is that good enough for SPFL? Where does he think Motherwell and Dundee and Killie are signing players from?

He's a clown.

Not really. Obita has more games at Championship level than the two combined, in fact almost double the two combined (including cup games when he was a championship player). Kent has had one season at that level, Ekpiteta has two. I would say Obita has a much better pedigree over his career.

Ekpiteta has played the majority of his football at non-league level.

[Just_Jimmy]

Not really. Obita has more games at Championship level than the two combined, in fact almost double the two combined (including cup games when he was a championship player). Kent has had one season at that level, Ekpiteta has two. I would say Obita has a much better pedigree over his career.

Ekpiteta has played the majority of his football at non-league level.Aye, and he's settling in fine.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

Aye, and he's settling in fine.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

He's pretty limited as a footballer, but appears to have cut out the mistakes and yes, doing not too badly.

[Tyler Durden]

Not really. Obita has more games at Championship level than the two combined, in fact almost double the two combined (including cup games when he was a championship player). Kent has had one season at that level, Ekpiteta has two. I would say Obita has a much better pedigree over his career.

Ekpiteta has played the majority of his football at non-league level.

Ok well Obita versus the other two wasn’t exactly my main point there. All of the players have good experience to merit a move to top 6 teams in Scotland.

Tom English unsurprisingly wants to criticise Hibs for something while ignoring that his beloved Hearts and Aberdeen etc shop in the same market.

[ancient hibee]

They are made up fiction, so you can decide for yourself.

Some amount of nonsense being spread in recent weeks.

Yes it’s sad how quickly they become FACTS.

[Winston Ingram]

Have we included a question as to why we have appointed such an inexperienced, under qualified back room staff to support SDG?

[MelbourneHibees]

When is the meeting?

[linlithgowhibbie]

When is the meeting?

Tonight.

[Basildon Hibs]

As shareholder I got an email from HSL requesting I submit my views on the Club statement, and how the club is run generally, prior to a pre-arranged meeting on Thursday. Presumably so the HSL people can collate and present the best of them to the Board. An opportunity for supporters to get their points across.

I started an email in response earlier this morning, but I'd be happy to include the views of others who may not have got that opportunity.

Anybody got anything constructive they'd like said? Serious questions, and bullet point format only, I think. Wednesday lunchtime deadline.

My threepence worth for now:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament.

1.It seems to me there's too many staff/ players on high wages who aren't contributing to the club, and there's a massive disconnect from the fanbase as the club has become more corporate. To what extent do the Board agree with this and what self-reflection is taking place at Board level, especially with regard to improve fanbase connection?

2.There seems to be a lack of teamwork on the park. A bunch of individuals going through the motions, with no passion, desire, belief and indeed a lack of skill. To what extent are these same attributes reflected at Board level? i.e. is what is happening on the park just a reflection of current management? Discuss.

For me, you blew it straight away by agreeing with the board to retaining Gray.

😒

[SHODAN]

When is the meeting?

This Thursday

[Golden Bear]

Maybe a question on whether or not there has been any progress in the planning/construction of a full size indoor pitch at East Mains?

[Brummie_Hibs]

Maybe a question on whether or not there has been any progress in the planning/construction of a full size indoor pitch at East Mains?
Probably a more appropriate question should be whether there are plans for a training pitch on a ploughed tattie field, in preparation for our seasons in the lower leagues?

[CapitalGreen]

Probably a more appropriate question should be whether there are plans for a training pitch on a ploughed tattie field, in preparation for our seasons in the lower leagues?

Preparation for a league that’s played mostly on artificial turf?

[Trinity Hibee]

Will be very interesting to hear about this later

[Chuck Rhoades]

Be good to know who attends from Hibs given rumours Kensell has gone to the Caribbean, topping up his tan / done a runner before Derek White story hits

[Chorley Hibee]

Be good to know who attends from Hibs given rumours Kensell has gone to the Caribbean, topping up his tan / done a runner before Derek White story hits

How convenient that our esteemed CEO has managed to avoid both this and the breaking news regards that creep White.

But, the poor guy needs a holiday don't you know.

[green day]

Anyone know when we might hear anything from this meeting?

[linlithgowhibbie]

Anyone know when we might hear anything from this meeting?

Perhaps HSL have to advise their members of the contents of the meeting before telling anyone else?

[ionahibby]

Are we even sure this meeting went ahead?

[GreenPJ]

Perhaps HSL have to advise their members of the contents of the meeting before telling anyone else?
:agree:

[green day]

Perhaps HSL have to advise their members of the contents of the meeting before telling anyone else?

I am a member :aok:

[stalbanshibby]

Anyone know when we might hear anything from this meeting?

I asked HSL whether it'd be possible to see minutes/ outcomes when I sent them the email prior to the meeting, and was told that they'll aim to post a summary, but they weren't sure what they'd be 'allowed to share'.

I completely respect HSL's position here, and they'll have to decide based on their judgement what they can tell us, but I have to say I'm a bit dismayed that they're subject to the club's censorship except for legal reasons. IMHO this is a prime example of the lack of transparency/ disconnection from the fanbase that I think we all feel.

[stalbanshibby]

For me, you blew it straight away by agreeing with the board to retaining Gray.

😒

FWIW, I changed that paragraph to this:

Thank you for the Board statement on 11/11 in support of SDG. I'm in agreement with your decision to retain SDG in post, as I believe he is just the front man for a series of decision making calamities that have happened throughout the top of the club for a number of years, that are culminating in our current predicament. My hope is that the Board are doing everything they can to support David Gray rather than point the finger at him, because the failings at the club seem to me to be collective. It’s also true to say that we’ve changed managers too many times recently, which has done nothing to steady the (sinking) ship.

That said, I get that not everyone agrees with me, but the email I sent was a combination of my views and those I collated from Hibs.net

[stalbanshibby]

Just a thought:

Did Malky appoint SDG as head Coach because he knows David doesn't threaten him? That's to say, Malky and others at the top of the club are more interested in looking after their cooshy wee number than making Hibs successful as a collective. I can see Malky running rings round his fellow Board members, all smoke and mirrors etc. Or am I reading him wrong?

[JimBHibees]

I asked HSL whether it'd be possible to see minutes/ outcomes when I sent them the email prior to the meeting, and was told that they'll aim to post a summary, but they weren't sure what they'd be 'allowed to share'.

I completely respect HSL's position here, and they'll have to decide based on their judgement what they can tell us, but I have to say I'm a bit dismayed that they're subject to the club's censorship except for legal reasons. IMHO this is a prime example of the lack of transparency/ disconnection from the fanbase that I think we all feel.

Let’s see what the summary looks like

[Iain G]

Let’s see what the summary looks like

So meeting didn't happen due to illness, after all that!

[Ringothedog]

Meeting was cancelled due to sickness

[Sl1010]

I just got an email stating that due to sickness the meeting didn't go ahead yesterday and will be rearranged.

[Winston Ingram]

Just got the email. Who was ill?

[the_ginger_hibee]

'Unfortunately, due to sickness, yesterday's meeting with the club did not go ahead as planned'

Can't help illness but just fits with the general chaos around the club.

[Trinity Hibee]

Surely 1 person (presumably) being ill doesn’t mean a meeting of this importance doesn’t take place?

Maybe they had what Levein had in May 1986?

[Hibs4185]

Just got the email. Who was ill?

BK called in sick from the Bahamas. He got cut off, they tried to call back and got an international ring tone. Busted

[Hibeesforever]

Surely 1 person (presumably) being ill doesn’t mean a meeting of this importance doesn’t take place?

Maybe they had what Levein had in May 1986?

Indeed,the Board are just hunkering down. Presume they have not set another date, how convenient!

[Hibs90]

Sickness eh. Get well soon.

[Hibby Gav]

Dear members & supporters,

Firstly, thank you to everyone who took the time to share their views with us this week following our email on Monday - we received a large volume of emails and we have collated the responses.

Unfortunately, due to sickness, yesterday's meeting with the club did not go ahead as planned.

We will look to rearrange this meeting as soon as possible in order to share the views of our members with the club.

As ever, thank you for your support.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Just clicked into their website from that email and while it looks like it has been updated, the home screen still says they are the second largest shareholder in Hibernian FC... they're not even third largest now are they?

[bingo70]

Dear members & supporters,

Firstly, thank you to everyone who took the time to share their views with us this week following our email on Monday - we received a large volume of emails and we have collated the responses.

Unfortunately, due to sickness, yesterday's meeting with the club did not go ahead as planned.

We will look to rearrange this meeting as soon as possible in order to share the views of our members with the club.

As ever, thank you for your support.


Was the person sick a Hibs board member or a HSL representative?

[Hibby Gav]

Was the person sick a Hibs board member or a HSL representative?


no idea I’m afraid…that’s all that’s been announced…

[flash]

If you were the club representative due to attend this meeting you probably would be feeling pretty ill at the thought of it all things considered!

[Greenio]

I dont know much context to this... But since when has 'due to sickness' been a legitimate reason for cancelling this type of event?

Sickness? Of what? To whom?

Sickness isnt a bomb scare...

Or am i missing something?

[bingo70]

I dont know much context to this... But since when has 'due to sickness' been a legitimate reason for cancelling this type of event?

Sickness? Of what? To whom?

Sickness isnt a bomb scare...

Or am i missing something?

I agree.

Sorry for being cynical but I generally don’t believe the sickness line when it’s trotted out, even less so when it’s to the backdrop of everything else that’s going on.

If it was an HSL rep that was sick I will stand corrected and apologise but if it was someone from the Hibs board, I’m calling bull****.

[mutley]

I just got that email too !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Hibby Gav]

I emailed HSL….got this back…


It was the representative from the club who cancelled the meeting due to sickness.


Four Hibernian Supporters directors were available for the meeting. We hope to rearrange this with the club as soon as possible.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I agree.

Sorry for being cynical but I generally don’t believe the sickness line when it’s trotted out, even less so when it’s to the backdrop of everything else that’s going on.

If it was an HSL rep that was sick I will stand corrected and apologise but if it was someone from the Hibs board, I’m calling bull****.

:agree:

[CentreLine]

I get that we are all frustrated by the mess our club is in but if someone is sick, that is a very personal matter and can cover a very broad range. I do not think it is any of our business who was affected or what exactly the medical condition is or was.
Can’t we just accept that the meeting had to be cancelled and will be rearranged. I just don’t get the degree of entitlement and intrusion we see across social media.

[Trinity Hibee]

I get that we are all frustrated by the mess our club is in but if someone is sick, that is a very personal matter and can cover a very broad range. I do not think it is any of our business who was affected or what exactly the medical condition is or was.
Can’t we just accept that the meeting had to be cancelled and will be rearranged. I just don’t get the degree of entitlement and intrusion we see across social media.

In the current climate of Hibs, 1 person being sick should not mean the cancellation of a meeting in my book and that’s how I’d expect most business to operate unless they are small business which we are not. Shows a lack of respect to HSL members who were prepared for this and looks to have been last minute. Its not entitlement or rage based across social media, it should be how professional businesses work

[Bishop Hibee]

Ah the auld ‘throw a sicky trick’! How convenient. It stinks.

[CentreLine]

In the current climate of Hibs, 1 person being sick should not mean the cancellation of a meeting in my book and that’s how I’d expect most business to operate unless they are small business which we are not. Shows a lack of respect to HSL members who were prepared for this and looks to have been last minute. Its not entitlement or rage based across social media, it should be how professional businesses work

I think, when people get their knickers is a twist, wanting to know the detail of “Illness” and who was affected it’s gone too far.
It could be that one of the participants was. But then, each and every one of the people involved will have family and loved ones. Just how far across the spectrum of care do we need to intrude upon in order to satisfy our lust for private information and belief that we are entitled to know?

[One Day Soon]

I get that we are all frustrated by the mess our club is in but if someone is sick, that is a very personal matter and can cover a very broad range. I do not think it is any of our business who was affected or what exactly the medical condition is or was.
Can’t we just accept that the meeting had to be cancelled and will be rearranged. I just don’t get the degree of entitlement and intrusion we see across social media.

In most other circumstances this would probably be fine. These aren't other circumstances, we are smack in the middle of an utter cluster**** at Hibernian. So your 'if' in the first sentence is doing some superhuman heavy lifting in this context.

These are the times when you would ordinarily hope to draw on the bank of goodwill and trust of supporters. However when you have previously serially entered the bank of goodwill wearing really terrible disguises and emptied the bank you tend to find there is nothing left to draw on because people know who you are and what you are about. I'd guess a very significant proportion of our support is now sufficiently sick of feeling that we have endured so much incompetence, arrogance, naivety, dishonesty, vanity, stupidity, recklessness, bull****, bluster, smugness and sheer delusion that there is presently zero trust in anything coming out of the club.

They and we desperately need a reset at the club and fast. That can only come from football on the park, change of manager, change of other senior executives or a combination of these. Until then stuff like 'off sick' isn't going to cut it and every single episode of major or minor bad or unfortunate news is simply going to multiply the negative spiral. A good Chief Executive or owner would recognise this and take remedial action. The recent 'statement' suggests we have neither of these in place.

[flash]

In the current climate of Hibs, 1 person being sick should not mean the cancellation of a meeting in my book and that’s how I’d expect most business to operate unless they are small business which we are not. Shows a lack of respect to HSL members who were prepared for this and looks to have been last minute. Its not entitlement or rage based across social media, it should be how professional businesses work

Presumably somebody at the club had prepared for this meeting in advance.

If they weren't well hardly seems fair throwing somebody unprepared in at the last moment.

[oneone73]

I think, when people get their knickers is a twist, wanting to know the detail of “Illness” and who was affected it’s gone too far.
It could be that one of the participants was. But then, each and every one of the people involved will have family and loved ones. Just how far across the spectrum of care do we need to intrude upon in order to satisfy our lust for private information and belief that we are entitled to know?

We have the biggest board in Christendom. And yet no one was available to meet one of the club's biggest shareholders. No one else would have received such shoddy treatment imo

[18Craig75]

I emailed HSL….got this back…


It was the representative from the club who cancelled the meeting due to sickness.


Four Hibernian Supporters directors were available for the meeting. We hope to rearrange this with the club as soon as possible.

Absolute sh*t show.

[GloryGlory]

Just got the email. Who was ill?

Hibernian Football Club. It's been ailing for some time.

[SHODAN]

I emailed HSL….got this back…


It was the representative from the club who cancelled the meeting due to sickness.


Four Hibernian Supporters directors were available for the meeting. We hope to rearrange this with the club as soon as possible.

That is absolutely a deflection from the club.

[B.H.F.C]

Suppose it could be sickness in the sense that someone clearly had the s***s about attending the meeting.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

If the board are all sick fed up then it's maybe the first time in a while that we are all feeling the same.

[GreenPJ]

So I thought that this was a standing meeting which would normally be the same participants each time but the state of the club was asked to be added to the agenda by HSL? If this was indeed the case and the club rep (who I assume is the normal attendee to these meetings) was sick then its fair to cancel.

Also not sure what more we expected to hear from the club beyond what has been said publicly but presumably as a standing meeting it will get rescheduled in a reasonable timeframe.

[skyehibee]

Embarrassing they pulled out of that. Sums up the club right now.

[Bostonhibby]

We have the biggest board in Christendom. And yet no one was available to meet one of the club's biggest shareholders. No one else would have received such shoddy treatment imoYeah, if it was someone at the club who couldn't appear, whatever happened to collective responsibility at board level?

It definitely still exists in Britain, in fact it's a really poor boardroom where another member doesnt have the knowledge of what's happening across the club, or the ability to step in when someone is Ill or missing.

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[Tyler Durden]

I think some folk need to reign in their expectations of this meeting.

Firstly, I seriously doubt the HSL reps are going to raise some of the questions proposed on this thread. Anything sensitive or borderline insulting to the Hibs board will probably be ignored.

Secondly, you're not going to get any meaningful insightful answers anyway. It will be a repeat of information already in the public domain.

[.Sean.]

They must think we’re stupid. Pulling a sickie to avoid the inevitable tough questions especially on the day that that wee creep has been outed is an absolute beamer from them but hardly a surprise is it

The club are an absolute joke, every day it seems now it’s something else. Just sell up and GTF

[Bostonhibby]

I think some folk need to reign in their expectations of this meeting.

Firstly, I seriously doubt the HSL reps are going to raise some of the questions proposed on this thread. Anything sensitive or borderline insulting to the Hibs board will probably be ignored.

Secondly, you're not going to get any meaningful insightful answers anyway. It will be a repeat of information already in the public domain.Very likely true given the general contempt that existed around HSL at the club.

Never had any great expectations that the club would do anything other than swat down anything awkward and do a bit of PR waffle on the rest, whatever that might have been.

Someone probably looked at the proposed questions on here and thought F that we aren't doing it!

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[Winston Ingram]

I emailed HSL….got this back…


It was the representative from the club who cancelled the meeting due to sickness.


Four Hibernian Supporters directors were available for the meeting. We hope to rearrange this with the club as soon as possible.

I had no doubt that it wasn't an HSL member. With BK being in the Caribbean, I'm going to assume it was IG or MM who was ill.

[stalbanshibby]

Very likely true given the general contempt that existed around HSL at the club.

Never had any great expectations that the club would do anything other than swat down anything awkward and do a bit of PR waffle on the rest, whatever that might have been.

Someone probably looked at the proposed questions on here and thought F that we aren't doing it!

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Well if someone on the Board had looked at the questions and thought 'I'm dodging that bullet', then a) we're putting the right questions (I don't think any of them were unfair or disrespectful either - challenging yes, but not unfair or disrespectful) and b) I can't help but think that for the club to NOT meet with HSL because 1 person was sick, does show a lack of respect. In my experience in business, a meeting with a shareholder (all be it a minor one) is no small matter, especially in this case given who the shareholder represents. Another anti-climax coming out of Hibs.

[stalbanshibby]

In most other circumstances this would probably be fine. These aren't other circumstances, we are smack in the middle of an utter cluster**** at Hibernian. So your 'if' in the first sentence is doing some superhuman heavy lifting in this context.

These are the times when you would ordinarily hope to draw on the bank of goodwill and trust of supporters. However when you have previously serially entered the bank of goodwill wearing really terrible disguises and emptied the bank you tend to find there is nothing left to draw on because people know who you are and what you are about. I'd guess a very significant proportion of our support is now sufficiently sick of feeling that we have endured so much incompetence, arrogance, naivety, dishonesty, vanity, stupidity, recklessness, bull****, bluster, smugness and sheer delusion that there is presently zero trust in anything coming out of the club.

They and we desperately need a reset at the club and fast. That can only come from football on the park, change of manager, change of other senior executives or a combination of these. Until then stuff like 'off sick' isn't going to cut it and every single episode of major or minor bad or unfortunate news is simply going to multiply the negative spiral. A good Chief Executive or owner would recognise this and take remedial action. The recent 'statement' suggests we have neither of these in place.


This. 10/10

[Bostonhibby]

Well if someone on the Board had looked at the questions and thought 'I'm dodging that bullet', then a) we're putting the right questions (I don't think any of them were unfair or disrespectful either - challenging yes, but not unfair or disrespectful) and b) I can't help but think that for the club to NOT meet with HSL because 1 person was sick, does show a lack of respect. In my experience in business, a meeting with a shareholder (all be it a minor one) is no small matter, especially in this case given who the shareholder represents. Another anti-climax coming out of Hibs.I agree with you

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[H18S NX]

SICKNESS eh,who'd have thought it.

[BoomtownHibees]

Convenient

[DickEDastardly]

Very disappointing to hear and while I’m not going to call bull**** on the sickness issue it seems disrespectful that only one senior person at the club was committed to meeting with HLS anyway


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[DickEDastardly]

Very disappointing to hear and while I’m not going to call bull**** on the sickness issue it seems disrespectful that only one senior person at the club was committed to meeting with HLS anyway


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If you’re interested this is what I sent in to add to the HSL questions and will wait with bated breath…..

Thanks for giving the opportunity to raise issues with the board.
- in light of the stated aim of challenging for 3rd, competing in Europe and progressing in cups do you think that appointing a rookie manager (who only has limited coaching experience working with 4 failed hibs managers) showed suitable ambition and commitment to success or was a cheap and short-sighted option?
- do the board think that a club of Hibs’s status would be better served by appointing an experienced manager with a track record of demonstrable success and if they don’t think this is the case why not?
- have the board or the people responsible for overseeing the football department seen any evidence of coaching that has improved any individual player or positively progressed the style and capability of the players to play as a team? If they have seen the signs of player or team improvement can they highlight what or who these are?
- do the board think that the transfer strategy is delivering value for money i.e. the vast number of players recruited, the money being paid in transfer fees and wages to achieve the desired standard of player and performances. Of the dozens of players turned over in the last 3 years which of these do the board consider to be value for money as contributing positively to the progression of the team?
- every successful team has a strong spine from back to front to build around - how would the board assess the current spine of the team?
- the midfield has been a glaring problem for a number of years and gone unresolved. Why has no-one on the board or in charge of football operations taken steps to address the lack of quality, experience, leadership, strength and mentality. Why was there not a plan b and c (other than average loan players) when the Dundee player target inevitably fell through
- in comparison to other clubs do the board think that the CEO is delivering value for money in fulfilling the prime objective of a football club?
- what are the short-term targets expected to provide assurance that the club will not be at risk of a relegation battle that we have neither the players nor the coaching staff with the skills and mentality to succeed in. At what point have the board deemed that yet another managerial sacking will be required and at what cost to the bank balance and our chances of staying up?


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[Stuart93]

Hahaha sickness, my ****ing sides.

Imagine there was someone at the club behind the scenes with a ****ing backbone and a bit accountability.

Just plays into the lack of leadership.

*****bags.

[Ronniekirk]

If you’re interested this is what I sent in to add to the HSL questions and will wait with bated breath…..

Thanks for giving the opportunity to raise issues with the board.
- in light of the stated aim of challenging for 3rd, competing in Europe and progressing in cups do you think that appointing a rookie manager (who only has limited coaching experience working with 4 failed hibs managers) showed suitable ambition and commitment to success or was a cheap and short-sighted option?
- do the board think that a club of Hibs’s status would be better served by appointing an experienced manager with a track record of demonstrable success and if they don’t think this is the case why not?
- have the board or the people responsible for overseeing the football department seen any evidence of coaching that has improved any individual player or positively progressed the style and capability of the players to play as a team? If they have seen the signs of player or team improvement can they highlight what or who these are?
- do the board think that the transfer strategy is delivering value for money i.e. the vast number of players recruited, the money being paid in transfer fees and wages to achieve the desired standard of player and performances. Of the dozens of players turned over in the last 3 years which of these do the board consider to be value for money as contributing positively to the progression of the team?
- every successful team has a strong spine from back to front to build around - how would the board assess the current spine of the team?
- the midfield has been a glaring problem for a number of years and gone unresolved. Why has no-one on the board or in charge of football operations taken steps to address the lack of quality, experience, leadership, strength and mentality. Why was there not a plan b and c (other than average loan players) when the Dundee player target inevitably fell through
- in comparison to other clubs do the board think that the CEO is delivering value for money in fulfilling the prime objective of a football club?
- what are the short-term targets expected to provide assurance that the club will not be at risk of a relegation battle that we have neither the players nor the coaching staff with the skills and mentality to succeed in. At what point have the board deemed that yet another managerial sacking will be required and at what cost to the bank balance and our chances of staying up?


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To be fair they probably went to bed with a migraine or panic attack when they read that , realising what. a mess they have made of our club

[Jock O]

If you’re interested this is what I sent in to add to the HSL questions and will wait with bated breath…..

Thanks for giving the opportunity to raise issues with the board.
- in light of the stated aim of challenging for 3rd, competing in Europe and progressing in cups do you think that appointing a rookie manager (who only has limited coaching experience working with 4 failed hibs managers) showed suitable ambition and commitment to success or was a cheap and short-sighted option?
- do the board think that a club of Hibs’s status would be better served by appointing an experienced manager with a track record of demonstrable success and if they don’t think this is the case why not?
- have the board or the people responsible for overseeing the football department seen any evidence of coaching that has improved any individual player or positively progressed the style and capability of the players to play as a team? If they have seen the signs of player or team improvement can they highlight what or who these are?
- do the board think that the transfer strategy is delivering value for money i.e. the vast number of players recruited, the money being paid in transfer fees and wages to achieve the desired standard of player and performances. Of the dozens of players turned over in the last 3 years which of these do the board consider to be value for money as contributing positively to the progression of the team?
- every successful team has a strong spine from back to front to build around - how would the board assess the current spine of the team?
- the midfield has been a glaring problem for a number of years and gone unresolved. Why has no-one on the board or in charge of football operations taken steps to address the lack of quality, experience, leadership, strength and mentality. Why was there not a plan b and c (other than average loan players) when the Dundee player target inevitably fell through
- in comparison to other clubs do the board think that the CEO is delivering value for money in fulfilling the prime objective of a football club?
- what are the short-term targets expected to provide assurance that the club will not be at risk of a relegation battle that we have neither the players nor the coaching staff with the skills and mentality to succeed in. At what point have the board deemed that yet another managerial sacking will be required and at what cost to the bank balance and our chances of staying up?


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Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.

[Bostonhibby]

Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.The club said they couldn't attend as someone was sick.

They didn't say it was because they didn't want to or couldn't face answering questions.

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[One Day Soon]

Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.


"People have lost their minds"

These questions are all, without exception, nothing more than those that any decent journalist would ask. If they aren't capable of dealing with questions like those either by addressing the substance of each or by responding without getting into too specific detail on individuals then they are pretty ****ing weak ground.

All of these questions - literally all of them - are easily answered. People may not like all of the answers but let's not pretend that just because there are tough questions which do need to be answered, it is unreasonable to ask them.

We've done conspiracy of silence wrapped up in lexicon of bull**** for the last four or five years and it has brought us to this absolute nadir. It's now time for home truths, transparency and accountability.

[Jock O]

The club said they couldn't attend as someone was sick.

They didn't say it was because they didn't want to or couldn't face answering questions.

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But the general feeling seems to be they have pulled it, and used the sickness as an excuse. And reading all this if that is true I genuinely do not blame them.

[Bostonhibby]

But the general feeling seems to be they have pulled it, and used the sickness as an excuse. And reading all this if that is true I genuinely do not blame them.You may well be right about the clubs actions and reasons for it, no argument from me there- but throwing a sickie is a disrespectful or cowardly way out.

Send someone along to field the questions, or take them away from the meeting and make enquiries, if something was beyond the remit just say so?

Been to plenty meetings where what comes up isn't what we are there to deal with, front it, say so and move on.

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[stalbanshibby]

Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.

To be fair HSL invited it's members for views/ questions to be put to the Board. I started this thread and extended the audience to all on Hibs.net - so that peeps not in HSL could also get a chance to submit views. HSL apparently have regular meetings with the Hibs Board, but there was more interest in this particular meeting than most because of a) Hibs predicament and b) the board statement on Monday. I'm sure HSL will sort and filter any questions put by Hibs fans into a sensible list and format at a suitable level as they see fit for a meeting that they are familiar with, and therefore know what's acceptable. HSL didn't ask me to start a thread on hibs.net - I did it off my own bat - that said, they do follow this forum and have been looking on with interest, so I was told. There's precious little in the way of other avenues for supporters to vent at those they see as rssponsible, since the general feeling is there's a lack of transparency at the club, and fans feel disconnected.

There's no harm done here.

[Paulie Walnuts]

But the general feeling seems to be they have pulled it, and used the sickness as an excuse. And reading all this if that is true I genuinely do not blame them.

You don’t blame them for binning off a meeting because it wouldn’t be nice?

If only that’s how life worked. Don’t fancy something? Just don’t do it, nobody can blame you.

[easty]

If only that’s how life worked. Don’t fancy something? Just don’t do it, nobody can blame you.

That's pretty much how I live my life anyway :greengrin

[Jock O]

"People have lost their minds"

These questions are all, without exception, nothing more than those that any decent journalist would ask. If they aren't capable of dealing with questions like those either by addressing the substance of each or by responding without getting into too specific detail on individuals then they are pretty ****ing weak ground.

All of these questions - literally all of them - are easily answered. People may not like all of the answers but let's not pretend that just because there are tough questions which do need to be answered, it is unreasonable to ask them.

We've done conspiracy of silence wrapped up in lexicon of bull**** for the last four or five years and it has brought us to this absolute nadir. It's now time for home truths, transparency and accountability.

I completely disagree. Most are specifically looking for responses about specific peoples performance, in detail, to which they would have to give a generic answer with no criticism implied, which everyone would spend all day on here saying that shows how **** they are. What is their actual choice on that sort of question?

Specific examples are One is asking is Ben Kensall value for money, one is asking effectively when will they sack David Gray. In both examples they would give a generic answer with no real detail and saying that they appreciate our concern and all involved know they need to improve. Much like the statement they made. What more could say, will that satisfy everyone or would they get slaughtered? Or they say Ben is the biggest waste of money, we can't wait to get rid. At which point we all cheer and Kensall phones his lawyer and gets a nice extra pay off for constructive dismissal. And we all then say how **** they are for not realising that would happen.

The midfield question and the attitude question, what is that other than a detailed criticism of specific players that would result in a generic answer like above. Its basically a specific question on the coaches competences and some of the players attitudes. What could they say to that without breaching some sort of employment law, other than everyone needs to improve etc.

They aren't just tough questions, they are detailed operational questions with a very specific slant. Arguably none of the board should be answering such questions or we would be slaughtering them for interfering in the football side, or do you think David Gray should be there to answer such questions now extending this?

I cannot think of any example where a board would meet a shareholder and discuss such detailed operational questions, and share the answers. Corporate Shareholders express their concern on performance all the time in business, but even then its not easy to get a meeting with the board over it. And certainly not to discuss operational performance at this detail in my opinion, I just cannot see it. I say it again HSL are incredible naïve if they expect such a level of discussion, and its just not real world thinking on our part.

[DickEDastardly]

Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.

Of course I don’t actually expect them to answer them and also don’t expect that HSL will have done anything other than collate and condense the many issues/questions into a summary, manageable format. But if the opportunity to raise the current situation with the board is there then these are the things that in my opinion they should be challenged on, reflecting on and held accountable for.

I don’t think these are operational details but fundamental parts of the current and future of our club and I don’t think a football club can be thought of like any old organisation? The point of a board (with independent chair, non exec directors etc) is surely to objectively hold the employed executives to account (on behalf of owners, shareholders, customers and stakeholders) for their areas of responsibility.

That statement, the lack of engagement and communication suggests that no one is accountable but no, I don’t expect them to acknowledge that!


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[Jock O]

You don’t blame them for binning off a meeting because it wouldn’t be nice?

If only that’s how life worked. Don’t fancy something? Just don’t do it, nobody can blame you.

Now I realise you are one of the many recentish name changers on here, hiding your previous trail of negativity, not really sure I want to bother with you, but just to be clear that is not what I said. People are now asking for much more than a concerned discussion with a shareholder, one that if they did get into may have legal and employment ramifications for the club depending on what they said. It's not the sort of discussion they should expect with a shareholder, and more importantly not one a shareholder should be setting up, hence HSL need to have a hard look at themselves over this.

I appreciate this is anything like the real world, and football is often seen as an escape from real world, but I don't think it is remotely sensible in real world to expect any organisation to answer a set of detailed operational questions, produced on the day of the meeting, on the whim of a notice board. Pretty sure the club lawyers would be equally nervous. I am not sure anyone can convince me this is anything like normal practice,

Let me know when you change name again, I keep disappearing from here for a while and it is not easy to keep up.

[Daniel 1875]

Now I realise you are one of the many recentish name changers on here, hiding your previous trail of negativity, not really sure I want to bother with you, but just to be clear that is not what I said. People are now asking for much more than a concerned discussion with a shareholder, one that if they did get into may have legal and employment ramifications for the club depending on what they said. It's not the sort of discussion they should expect with a shareholder, and more importantly not one a shareholder should be setting up, hence HSL need to have a hard look at themselves over this.

I appreciate this is anything like the real world, and football is often seen as an escape from real world, but I don't think it is remotely sensible in real world to expect any organisation to answer a set of detailed operational questions, produced on the day of the meeting, on the whim of a notice board. Pretty sure the club lawyers would be equally nervous. I am not sure anyone can convince me this is anything like normal practice,

Let me know when you change name again, I keep disappearing from here for a while and it is not easy to keep up.

Can I ask why you feel HSL need to ‘have a hard look at themselves over this’?

We arranged a meeting with the club. We asked our members to share their views with us ahead of the meeting. A member took it upon himself to start a thread seeking the views of others on .net which he collated and shared with us, we collated all of the views and then the meeting was cancelled.

Which part of that requires HSL to have a ‘hard look at ourselves’?

Anything you appear to think HSL ‘expected’ the club to discuss in detail appears to be complete conjecture and based on this thread - which was not started by HSL.

[Jock O]

You may well be right about the clubs actions and reasons for it, no argument from me there- but throwing a sickie is a disrespectful or cowardly way out.

Send someone along to field the questions, or take them away from the meeting and make enquiries, if something was beyond the remit just say so?

Been to plenty meetings where what comes up isn't what we are there to deal with, front it, say so and move on.

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I don't disagree with this, the method if true is pretty unsatisfying. I just think it has grown arms and legs and someone might have panicked, knowing they would be slaughtered if they just avoided the questions. You are right either way it isn't good. I am assuming the worst from current set up at moment also, although I probably come over as defending them, I am not, just think people need to be realistic in expectations.

Off course someone may really be sick, and to be fair its not a meeting anyone could/should chair given circumstances. I am hoping Ben Kensall is about to say he will chair personally on his return as that is probably the level required now, but I still think the expectations of what can come out this meeting are hugely inflated and HSL need to clear in their expectations. Although to be fair I had thought they were asking for the questions, it looks like someone on here has done that to provide input, so maybe I am being a bit unfair on them. Again probably why the meetings objectives and expectations probably need to be clarified.




Epsilon Record Co. (https://www.discogs.com/label/1951995-Epsilon-Record-Co) – EPS032

[Paulie Walnuts]

Now I realise you are one of the many recentish name changers on here, hiding your previous trail of negativity, not really sure I want to bother with you, but just to be clear that is not what I said. People are now asking for much more than a concerned discussion with a shareholder, one that if they did get into may have legal and employment ramifications for the club depending on what they said. It's not the sort of discussion they should expect with a shareholder, and more importantly not one a shareholder should be setting up, hence HSL need to have a hard look at themselves over this.

I appreciate this is anything like the real world, and football is often seen as an escape from real world, but I don't think it is remotely sensible in real world to expect any organisation to answer a set of detailed operational questions, produced on the day of the meeting, on the whim of a notice board. Pretty sure the club lawyers would be equally nervous. I am not sure anyone can convince me this is anything like normal practice,

Let me know when you change name again, I keep disappearing from here for a while and it is not easy to keep up.

No, that’s exactly what you said. You said if it’s true and they pulled the meeting using sickness as an excuse, then you can’t blame them.

[Bostonhibby]

I don't disagree with this, the method if true is pretty unsatisfying. I just think it has grown arms and legs and someone might have panicked, knowing they would be slaughtered if they just avoided the questions. You are right either way it isn't good. I am assuming the worst from current set up at moment also, although I probably come over as defending them, I am not, just think people need to be realistic in expectations.

Off course someone may really be sick, and to be fair its not a meeting anyone could/should chair given circumstances. I am hoping Ben Kensall is about to say he will chair personally on his return as that is probably the level required now, but I still think the expectations of what can come out this meeting are hugely inflated and HSL need to clear in their expectations. Although to be fair I had thought they were asking for the questions, it looks like someone on here has done that to provide input, so maybe I am being a bit unfair on them. Again probably why the meetings objectives and expectations probably need to be clarified.




Epsilon Record Co. (https://www.discogs.com/label/1951995-Epsilon-Record-Co) – EPS032

[emoji106]

Don't really see a problem with your viewpoint either.

Taking this outside the emotive subject that is Hibs and what's being done to us I'd be entering into any follow up meeting to this one with a healthy scepticism about the credibility of the "other side".

That's where I think the stewards of our club currently are with the supporters, maybe a bit worse.

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[Jock O]

Can I ask why you feel HSL need to ‘have a hard look at themselves over this’?

We arranged a meeting with the club. We asked our members to share their views with us ahead of the meeting. A member took it upon himself to start a thread seeking the views of others on .net which he collated and shared with us, we collated all of the views and then the meeting was cancelled.

Which part of that requires HSL to have a ‘hard look at ourselves’?

Anything you appear to think HSL ‘expected’ the club to discuss in detail appears to be complete conjecture and based on this thread - which was not started by HSL.

I have just said below I am possibly being unfair on you guys, I had incorrectly read this as you guys gathering and collating the questions at the level they were on here. I hadn't realised that was being done completely independently.

My point still stands I think thought about what is realistically expected from the meeting, and do you consider the levels of detail realistic for Hibs to answer. That is not clear to me and I think important to set peoples expectations.

[stalbanshibby]

Can I ask why you feel HSL need to ‘have a hard look at themselves over this’?

We arranged a meeting with the club. We asked our members to share their views with us ahead of the meeting. A member took it upon himself to start a thread seeking the views of others on .net which he collated and shared with us, we collated all of the views and then the meeting was cancelled.

Which part of that requires HSL to have a ‘hard look at ourselves’?

Anything you appear to think HSL ‘expected’ the club to discuss in detail appears to be complete conjecture and based on this thread - which was not started by HSL.

This is becoming a little bit how Hibs play football at the minute: a lack of collective and teamwork whilst the opposition are laughing their heads off and are 2-0 up.

For me: I completely trust HSL to conduct themselves at the Board meetings - they know how it works, and know how to pitch questions. i don't believe I have, but I hope I haven't stepped out of line, starting this thread.

[Daniel 1875]

I have just said below I am possibly being unfair on you guys, I had incorrectly read this as you guys gathering and collating the questions at the level they were on here. I hadn't realised that was being done completely independently.

My point still stands I think thought about what is realistically expected from the meeting, and do you consider the levels of detail realistic for Hibs to answer. That is not clear to me and I think important to set peoples expectations.

Any questions which are collated will be assessed over their relevance and appropriateness - as I’m sure most people would expect.

We receive emails regularly from members and fans about a range of topics related to the club.

‘Why is X being paid Y?’ or when is ‘X going to be sacked’ would obviously not be taken to a meeting between a minority shareholder and the club.

We also do not expect the club to share any commercially or legally sensitive information with us to then be relayed to members.

[Trinity Hibee]

This is becoming a little bit how Hibs play football at the minute: a lack of collective and teamwork whilst the opposition are laughing their heads off and are 2-0 up.

For me: I completely trust HSL to conduct themselves at the Board meetings - they know how it works, and know how to pitch questions. i don't believe I have, but I hope I haven't stepped out of line, starting this thread.

Don’t think you’ve done anything wrong. It’s a discussion forum and you asked fans for points of view. HSL are no doubt thinking of similar questions to what we all are. They’ll have presented them a bit more professionally than they appear on a forum though 😂

[Daniel 1875]

This is becoming a little bit how Hibs play football at the minute: a lack of collective and teamwork whilst the opposition are laughing their heads off and are 2-0 up.

For me: I completely trust HSL to conduct themselves at the Board meetings - they know how it works, and know how to pitch questions. i don't believe I have, but I hope I haven't stepped out of line, starting this thread.

Your efforts are much appreciated. By me personally, anyway. Thank you.

[stalbanshibby]

Your efforts are much appreciated. By me personally, anyway. Thank you.


Thanks Daniel. That'll do me.

[One Day Soon]

I completely disagree. Most are specifically looking for responses about specific peoples performance, in detail, to which they would have to give a generic answer with no criticism implied, which everyone would spend all day on here saying that shows how **** they are. What is their actual choice on that sort of question?

Specific examples are One is asking is Ben Kensall value for money, one is asking effectively when will they sack David Gray. In both examples they would give a generic answer with no real detail and saying that they appreciate our concern and all involved know they need to improve. Much like the statement they made. What more could say, will that satisfy everyone or would they get slaughtered? Or they say Ben is the biggest waste of money, we can't wait to get rid. At which point we all cheer and Kensall phones his lawyer and gets a nice extra pay off for constructive dismissal. And we all then say how **** they are for not realising that would happen.

The midfield question and the attitude question, what is that other than a detailed criticism of specific players that would result in a generic answer like above. Its basically a specific question on the coaches competences and some of the players attitudes. What could they say to that without breaching some sort of employment law, other than everyone needs to improve etc.

They aren't just tough questions, they are detailed operational questions with a very specific slant. Arguably none of the board should be answering such questions or we would be slaughtering them for interfering in the football side, or do you think David Gray should be there to answer such questions now extending this?

I cannot think of any example where a board would meet a shareholder and discuss such detailed operational questions, and share the answers. Corporate Shareholders express their concern on performance all the time in business, but even then its not easy to get a meeting with the board over it. And certainly not to discuss operational performance at this detail in my opinion, I just cannot see it. I say it again HSL are incredible naïve if they expect such a level of discussion, and its just not real world thinking on our part.


We will have to agree to fundamentally disagree then because any decent journalist worth their salt would ask precisely those questions if they could get the opportunity of an interview with someone appropriate. And any competent leadership figure at the club should be capable of answering them in ways which go beyond platitudes but without needing to go into micro detail.

eg

Question:

"in light of the stated aim of challenging for 3rd, competing in Europe and progressing in cups do you think that appointing a rookie manager (who only has limited coaching experience working with 4 failed hibs managers) showed suitable ambition and commitment to success or was a cheap and short-sighted option?"

Answer:

"Let me make clear, it is absolutely the ambition of this club to challenge for 3rd place in the league, compete in Europe and progress in cups. It should always be. We may not manage that every year but we should be doing so more often than not and we should be doing so more and more consistently over time. To achieve that we need to stabilise and overhaul our squad - which is why next summer's transfer window represents a big opportunity to look afresh at the size and balance of the squad with so many players out of contract at that point.

David Gray was appointed with a clear understanding on all sides that the task he, or indeed any other manager we might have appointed, would face was immense and would require time and grit in the face of adversity. David has served the club at the coal face both as a player and as interim manager and in the back room staff of a number of previous managers. One of his many strengths is that he knows the squad intimately and is therefore well placed to know the strengths, weaknesses and potential of each of our players. As we approach both this January and next summer's window with significant squad reconstruction in mind, his depth of knowledge at Easter Road is a very valuable asset. Having had to part company with several previous managers after relatively short stints in charge it was all the more important to the club to put in place someone we believe has what it takes to see through a rebuild that cannot be delivered over night, who has the very strong potential to develop as a manager at the same time and who fans know they can trust to be in it not simply for the job, or the status or money but also for his love for and commitment to the club.

We have had a very tough beginning to the season, no-one shies away from that. Some of that is of our own making in games but a chunk of it is not. You will be aware that the club has spoken out about its concerns over both on and off field decisions which have subsequently proven to be, at best, erroneous. These have cost us a significant amount of points. Were it not for those outcomes David would quite likely have us sitting at or around mid-table as he gets on with the difficult job of reshaping what we do on the park week by week, while also planning for the squad strengthening we will undoubtedly see during transfer windows.

We know him, we believe in him and we are supporting him to be successful. It is precisely because we are building for the longer term that it is completely wrong to characterise his appointment as short sighted. David came to Hibs as a player in 2014 when we were still in the Championship. By the end of that season he was our captain. By the end of the following season he was the captain who scored the winning goal in the cup final that brought the Scottish Cup back to Easter Road for the first time in 114 years. We believe that just as he quietly and consistently strengthened with us as a player, he will do the same as a manager."

This isn't North Korea where you only answer questions you approve in the first place.

[flash]

That was a pretty good answer to be fair. I don't want him to go anymore.

[Paulie Walnuts]

That was a pretty good answer to be fair. I don't want him to go anymore.

:greengrin

ODS almost had me convinced until I actually thought back to how bad we’ve been!

[Jock O]

We will have to agree to fundamentally disagree then because any decent journalist worth their salt would ask precisely those questions if they could get the opportunity of an interview with someone appropriate. And any competent leadership figure at the club should be capable of answering them in ways which go beyond platitudes but without needing to go into micro detail.

eg

Question:

"in light of the stated aim of challenging for 3rd, competing in Europe and progressing in cups do you think that appointing a rookie manager (who only has limited coaching experience working with 4 failed hibs managers) showed suitable ambition and commitment to success or was a cheap and short-sighted option?"

Answer:

"Let me make clear, it is absolutely the ambition of this club to challenge for 3rd place in the league, compete in Europe and progress in cups. It should always be. We may not manage that every year but we should be doing so more often than not and we should be doing so more and more consistently over time. To achieve that we need to stabilise and overhaul our squad - which is why next summer's transfer window represents a big opportunity to look afresh at the size and balance of the squad with so many players out of contract at that point.

David Gray was appointed with a clear understanding on all sides that the task he, or indeed any other manager we might have appointed, would face was immense and would require time and grit in the face of adversity. David has served the club at the coal face both as a player and as interim manager and in the back room staff of a number of previous managers. One of his many strengths is that he knows the squad intimately and is therefore well placed to know the strengths, weaknesses and potential of each of our players. As we approach both this January and next summer's window with significant squad reconstruction in mind, his depth of knowledge at Easter Road is a very valuable asset. Having had to part company with several previous managers after relatively short stints in charge it was all the more important to the club to put in place someone we believe has what it takes to see through a rebuild that cannot be delivered over night, who has the very strong potential to develop as a manager at the same time and who fans know they can trust to be in it not simply for the job, or the status or money but also for his love for and commitment to the club.

We have had a very tough beginning to the season, no-one shies away from that. Some of that is of our own making in games but a chunk of it is not. You will be aware that the club has spoken out about its concerns over both on and off field decisions which have subsequently proven to be, at best, erroneous. These have cost us a significant amount of points. Were it not for those outcomes David would quite likely have us sitting at or around mid-table as he gets on with the difficult job of reshaping what we do on the park week by week, while also planning for the squad strengthening we will undoubtedly see during transfer windows.

We know him, we believe in him and we are supporting him to be successful. It is precisely because we are building for the longer term that it is completely wrong to characterise his appointment as short sighted. David came to Hibs as a player in 2014 when we were still in the Championship. By the end of that season he was our captain. By the end of the following season he was the captain who scored the winning goal in the cup final that brought the Scottish Cup back to Easter Road for the first time in 114 years. We believe that just as he quietly and consistently strengthened with us as a player, he will do the same as a manager."

This isn't North Korea where you only answer questions you approve in the first place.

Okay you have convinced me, other than

(a) No-one at Hibs currently could compile that it seems, maybe you need to dust your CV off.

(b) I would be wondering what I would say in 2 weeks when we sack him

Maybe I am overthinking this, and maybe worked in ****ty corporate led organisations for too long, but still struggling with it. However like everything in life, time will tell! :greengrin

[One Day Soon]

That was a pretty good answer to be fair. I don't want him to go anymore.

The problem isn't the questions, it's the erchies at the club who would be trying to answer them.

[Trinity Hibee]

Okay you have convinced me, other than

(a) No-one at Hibs currently could compile that it seems, maybe you need to dust your CV off.

(b) I would be wondering what I would say in 2 weeks when we sack him

Maybe I am overthinking this, and maybe worked in ****ty corporate led organisations for too long, but still struggling with it. However like everything in life, time will tell! :greengrin

Isn’t your point B above kind of what everyone is saying though? They have no clue what they are doing. They’ve released a statement backing Gray but really none of us would be surprised to see him sacked in the next couple of weeks and if they do that they’ll be in the middle of a busy fixture period whereas now was the time to do it given the 2 week break.

[Lago]

:top marks
I completely disagree. Most are specifically looking for responses about specific peoples performance, in detail, to which they would have to give a generic answer with no criticism implied, which everyone would spend all day on here saying that shows how **** they are. What is their actual choice on that sort of question?

Specific examples are One is asking is Ben Kensall value for money, one is asking effectively when will they sack David Gray. In both examples they would give a generic answer with no real detail and saying that they appreciate our concern and all involved know they need to improve. Much like the statement they made. What more could say, will that satisfy everyone or would they get slaughtered? Or they say Ben is the biggest waste of money, we can't wait to get rid. At which point we all cheer and Kensall phones his lawyer and gets a nice extra pay off for constructive dismissal. And we all then say how **** they are for not realising that would happen.

The midfield question and the attitude question, what is that other than a detailed criticism of specific players that would result in a generic answer like above. Its basically a specific question on the coaches competences and some of the players attitudes. What could they say to that without breaching some sort of employment law, other than everyone needs to improve etc.

They aren't just tough questions, they are detailed operational questions with a very specific slant. Arguably none of the board should be answering such questions or we would be slaughtering them for interfering in the football side, or do you think David Gray should be there to answer such questions now extending this?

I cannot think of any example where a board would meet a shareholder and discuss such detailed operational questions, and share the answers. Corporate Shareholders express their concern on performance all the time in business, but even then its not easy to get a meeting with the board over it. And certainly not to discuss operational performance at this detail in my opinion, I just cannot see it. I say it again HSL are incredible naïve if they expect such a level of discussion, and its just not real world thinking on our part.

[ian cruise]

You don’t blame them for binning off a meeting because it wouldn’t be nice?

If only that’s how life worked. Don’t fancy something? Just don’t do it, nobody can blame you.

It sort of is like that. I know it upsets folk to think about ourselves as customers because Hibs means more to us than that, but ultimately that's the relationship, Hibs are a business and we are customers. We're under no obligation to buy their product "ie go to games" and they're under no obligation to meet with us and answer every question we have.

A good business of course listens to it's customers, no disputing that, but meeting with supporters groups and groups like hsl (who I appreciate hold shares but they are a minority share holder) is not much different to a small business deciding to give reading social media comments a read because they're getting a bit personal and a bit toxic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

It sort of is like that. I know it upsets folk to think about ourselves as customers because Hibs means more to us than that, but ultimately that's the relationship, Hibs are a business and we are customers. We're under no obligation to buy their product "ie go to games" and they're under no obligation to meet with us and answer every question we have.

A good business of course listens to it's customers, no disputing that, but meeting with supporters groups and groups like hsl (who I appreciate hold shares but they are a minority share holder) is not much different to a small business deciding to give reading social media comments a read because they're getting a bit personal and a bit toxic.

HSL as you said though, are shareholders. I wouldn’t disagree with you if it was Tom, Dick and Harry from Hibs.net they were meeting, but it wasn’t.

[Trinity Hibee]

It sort of is like that. I know it upsets folk to think about ourselves as customers because Hibs means more to us than that, but ultimately that's the relationship, Hibs are a business and we are customers. We're under no obligation to buy their product "ie go to games" and they're under no obligation to meet with us and answer every question we have.

A good business of course listens to it's customers, no disputing that, but meeting with supporters groups and groups like hsl (who I appreciate hold shares but they are a minority share holder) is not much different to a small business deciding to give reading social media comments a read because they're getting a bit personal and a bit toxic.

Hibs would do well to remember that the fans are really all they have. Lose us and they are ****ed.

[Hibees1973]

They must think we’re stupid. Pulling a sickie to avoid the inevitable tough questions especially on the day that that wee creep has been outed is an absolute beamer from them but hardly a surprise is it

The club are an absolute joke, every day it seems now it’s something else. Just sell up and GTF

Given all the cr*p that is going on, any Hibs supporters I know regard the board as stupid.

My regard of the board of directors is even lower now, if that was possible, given they bottled out of this meeting. Sickness, dearie me.

We have not got chance of a successful team on the park with these charlatans running the club.

[The Modfather]

Anyone else imagining Kensell putting on his best “I’m really ill” phone voice to a background of gentle waves and Pina coladas being made?

[snedzuk]

The problem isn't the questions, it's the erchies at the club who would be trying to answer them.

Maybe HSL could send the questions AND the answers and see how they handle that!

[CentreLine]

We have the biggest board in Christendom. And yet no one was available to meet one of the club's biggest shareholders. No one else would have received such shoddy treatment imo

I agree but not sure why you quoted my post which was about the clamour from people for details of illness

[oneone73]

I agree but not sure why you quoted my post which was about the clamour from people for details of illness

Sorry, was meant to be a standalone post.

[CentreLine]

Sorry, was meant to be a standalone post.

👍

[McD]

This is becoming a little bit how Hibs play football at the minute: a lack of collective and teamwork whilst the opposition are laughing their heads off and are 2-0 up.

For me: I completely trust HSL to conduct themselves at the Board meetings - they know how it works, and know how to pitch questions. i don't believe I have, but I hope I haven't stepped out of line, starting this thread.



I’m sure HSL, or someone on their behalf, would have let you know if they’d have preferred you to remove the thread

[Groathillgrump]

I’m sure HSL, or someone on their behalf, would have let you know if they’d have preferred you to remove the thread

Daniel from HSL replied to stalbanshibby. See post 205.

[hibsforeurope]

Hopefully kensell brings along some of his duty free Toblerone and left over Hawaiian tropic to the rearranged meeting.

[stalbanshibby]

It sort of is like that. I know it upsets folk to think about ourselves as customers because Hibs means more to us than that, but ultimately that's the relationship, Hibs are a business and we are customers. We're under no obligation to buy their product "ie go to games" and they're under no obligation to meet with us and answer every question we have.

A good business of course listens to it's customers, no disputing that, but meeting with supporters groups and groups like hsl (who I appreciate hold shares but they are a minority share holder) is not much different to a small business deciding to give reading social media comments a read because they're getting a bit personal and a bit toxic.

They're apparently under no obligation to provide a decent football team to watch, either. A bit like Ratners.

I don't agree with the above at all: Leann Dempster understood the need to connect with the support and got the community aspect of Hibs, and without the fanbase there is no income stream for the club. I'd like to think Ron Gordon got that too. Whilst of course there is a commercial side to running a football club, it's not just a business, or a brand. Fans are emotionally invested too - going to football matches is possibly one of the only emotional outlets some of the the fans may have, and people running a football club need to understand that. The fans aren't stupid and resent being milked for cash when the product is ***** (think Ratners again - although I could always choose to not go to Ratners, I can't choose to not support Hibs).

Currently there's more passion and anger in the fanbase than the players seem to show and when the people running the club don't communicate, aren't transparent and seem aloof, and the players don't seem to care or aren't good enough, they're going to get it tight when things go badly as they are now.

The club seem broken and a **** show and they've brought this on themselves.

Hibs fans are justifiably angry, or as also seems to happen, just laugh off each comms gaff and football **** up made by the club, because you couldn't really make this up.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

They're apparently under no obligation to provide a decent football team to watch, either. A bit like Ratners.

I don't agree with the above at all: Leann Dempster understood the need to connect with the support and got the community aspect of Hibs, and without the fanbase there is no income stream for the club. I'd like to think Ron Gordon got that too. Whilst of course there is a commercial side to running a football club, it's not just a business, or a brand. Fans are emotionally invested too - going to football matches is possibly one of the only emotional outlets some of the the fans may have, and people running a football club need to understand that. The fans aren't stupid and resent being milked for cash when the product is ***** (think Ratners again - although I could always choose to not go to Ratners, I can't choose to not support Hibs).

Currently there's more passion and anger in the fanbase than the players seem to show and when the people running the club don't communicate, aren't transparent and seem aloof, and the players don't seem to care or aren't good enough, they're going to get it tight when things go badly as they are now.

The club seem broken and a **** show and they've brought this on themselves.

Hibs fans are justifiably angry, or as also seems to happen, just laugh off each comms gaff and football **** up made by the club, because you couldn't really make this up.

to pick up on the point
”the people running the club don’t communicate”

Petrie wasn’t a great communicator. I suppose you leave that to the people that are Leeann was I thought excellent. But aside from her the lack of transparency over many years has been the hallmark of Hibs seems to me. Since Straiton I think we’ve had the same PR. Presumably they only act on a brief so only doing what they are paid to do but I wonder if they would advise for or against. Y

You have to say from a PR perspective we’ve had a bit of a shocker hand to deal with given the performance and other goings on at the club. If you are the PR company what do you advise?

suppose it depends if anyone is listening and there’s something to (positive) to say

but I’d be seeing did theres
anytjkgn we can lean from how Bournemouth go about things.
but also go back to the future and what we managed to do right with the likes of Leeann.

[stalbanshibby]

to pick up on the point
”the people running the club don’t communicate”

Petrie wasn’t a great communicator. I suppose you leave that to the people that are Leeann was I thought excellent. But aside from her the lack of transparency over many years has been the hallmark of Hibs seems to me. Since Straiton I think we’ve had the same PR. Presumably they only act on a brief so only doing what they are paid to do but I wonder if they would advise for or against. Y



No Rod wasn't a great communicator, and I agree Leann was exceptional, and well played Rod for bringing her in. Maybe I've been spoilt. But I think it's disingenuous to ostracise the fans, and one of the reasons Leann was exceptional was because she reached out. She knew Scottish football at it's roots is community based and Hibs aren't a Man U or Arsenal. It's not so long ago (1980s) you were lucky to see 5000 inside Easter Road and it's capacity was nearer 40K then. You could hear the echo.

I don't know whether Hibs have a Director of Communications, who's job it should be to engage with fans as well as the media, but they could do with one. The point is, if you have the fans onside because you engage with them, they will stick with you through thick and thin, because at least then there's transparency and a level of appreciation and dare I say gratitude. At the minute we just seem to be there to have our money taken off us.

They could also do with a decent football team too, mind. None of this anger would be happening if results had been better.

[Pagan Hibernia]

It sort of is like that. I know it upsets folk to think about ourselves as customers because Hibs means more to us than that, but ultimately that's the relationship, Hibs are a business and we are customers. We're under no obligation to buy their product "ie go to games" and they're under no obligation to meet with us and answer every question we have.

A good business of course listens to it's customers, no disputing that, but meeting with supporters groups and groups like hsl (who I appreciate hold shares but they are a minority share holder) is not much different to a small business deciding to give reading social media comments a read because they're getting a bit personal and a bit toxic.

Fans of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal are customers. If they walk away they are instantly replaced by somebody else, in fact these clubs are probably more than pleased when a 'legacy fan' who has been going for 40 years but would never set foot in the club shop and wouldn't be seen dead wearing whatever overpriced tat they are selling gives up their seat. That seat can now be filled with a Scandinavian, Chinese or American tourist who will come and spend a fortune for the experience and then get on a plane loaded down with merchandise.

Hibs situation is rather different and they would do very well to remember that. Every single Hibs season ticket holder who decides not to renew is missed and leaves an empty seat behind. And that will impact Hibs financial performance. These people aren't going to go and watch Hearts instead, in the way someone who doesn't like Tesco's bakery section might give Asda a go. If they give up the habit they are lost to the game and the club.

Technically we may be classed as supporters, but this is a very long way from a normal 'business'.

[stalbanshibby]

Fans of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal are customers. If they walk away they are instantly replaced by somebody else, in fact these clubs are probably more than pleased when a 'legacy fan' who has been going for 40 years but would never set foot in the club shop and wouldn't be seen dead wearing whatever overpriced tat they are selling gives up their seat. That seat can now be filled with a Scandinavian, Chinese or American tourist who will come and spend a fortune for the experience and then get on a plane loaded down with merchandise.

Hibs situation is rather different and they would do very well to remember that. Every single Hibs season ticket holder who decides not to renew is missed and leaves an empty seat behind. And that will impact Hibs financial performance. These people aren't going to go and watch Hearts instead, in the way someone who doesn't like Tesco's bakery section might give Asda a go. If they give up the habit they are lost to the game and the club.

Technically we may be classed as supporters, but this is a very long way from a normal 'business'.

Brilliant. Well said.

[Bostonhibby]

Fans of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal are customers. If they walk away they are instantly replaced by somebody else, in fact these clubs are probably more than pleased when a 'legacy fan' who has been going for 40 years but would never set foot in the club shop and wouldn't be seen dead wearing whatever overpriced tat they are selling gives up their seat. That seat can now be filled with a Scandinavian, Chinese or American tourist who will come and spend a fortune for the experience and then get on a plane loaded down with merchandise.

Hibs situation is rather different and they would do very well to remember that. Every single Hibs season ticket holder who decides not to renew is missed and leaves an empty seat behind. And that will impact Hibs financial performance. These people aren't going to go and watch Hearts instead, in the way someone who doesn't like Tesco's bakery section might give Asda a go. If they give up the habit they are lost to the game and the club.

Technically we may be classed as supporters, but this is a very long way from a normal 'business'.Great post, sadly I know a few people who are drifting away from this version of Hibs, the club. Hopefully it's not permanent as we simply cannot afford to lose the next generation who tend to follow on from the current one, in my circles at least.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Just_Jimmy]

Great post, sadly I know a few people who are drifting away from this version of Hibs, the club. Hopefully it's not permanent as we simply cannot afford to lose the next generation who tend to follow on from the current one, in my circles at least.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkMe. There's very little, in fact, almost nothing, I like about the club right now.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

The fans as customers is very much a pliable opinion where Hibs (and I daresay other clubs) are concerned. We are customers when it suits the club and fans when they need to tug at the heart strings. You can guarantee the ST campaign likely to launch early next year will be a saccharine affair about how we are all one, all in it together and how we are 'all Hibs'. All Hibs when it suits of course. As fans we are always fans. And that is the difference between our level of football and other busiensses. Football clubs like Hibs have a 'brand loyalty' other businesses would pay billions of pounds for. If Tesco starts to slip in standards then you will go to Sainsbury. If Hibs are crap no one is going to become a customer of Hearts.

[One Day Soon]

The fans as customers is very much a pliable opinion where Hibs (and I daresay other clubs) are concerned. We are customers when it suits the club and fans when they need to tug at the heart strings. You can guarantee the ST campaign likely to launch early next year will be a saccharine affair about how we are all one, all in it together and how we are 'all Hibs'. All Hibs when it suits of course. As fans we are always fans. And that is the difference between our level of football and other busiensses. Football clubs like Hibs have a 'brand loyalty' other businesses would pay billions of pounds for. If Tesco starts to slip in standards then you will go to Sainsbury. If Hibs are crap no one is going to become a customer of Hearts.

And this is something that goes to the root of my anger with the people who have made such a complete catastrophe of the football side of the club. Hearts have a season ticket waiting list, we have a season ticket casualty list. It’s unforgivable and the damage they have done will last for years to come.

[stalbanshibby]

And this is something that goes to the root of my anger with the people who have made such a complete catastrophe of the football side of the club. Hearts have a season ticket waiting list, we have a season ticket casualty list. It’s unforgivable and the damage they have done will last for years to come.

A Jambo mate of mine, reckons fan ownership is the way to go. I think when HSL first came into being, that was the aspiration, but I don't think they ever got the numbers, sadly. Until that happens (if it ever does), us supporters will, to an extent, be at the mercy of whoever is owning / running the club. It's pretty plain to see we currently have a bunch of muppets. I suspect you're right - this will play out for years to come.

[Onion]

Genuine reason or not, the optics of the Hibs cancelling the meeting at the last minute due to sickness is awful. Events of the last few months, weeks and days have raised serious concerns and questions among fans and shareholders that need to be faced head on by the Board. Many of the questions raised by HSL are never going to get anything other than a generic response or none at all - not because Hibs are trying to duck or deceive but because the answers could have serious implications or are simply rhetorical. But that's not the point. The meeting is the opportunity for an important fan group to voice concerns even if they are about individual Board members, individual players, the manager, even the owner's competence or state of mind. If the Board finds them petty, disrespectful or misplaced that's just tough. It's part and parcel of running a football club. Fans views, perceptions, objections, worries and criticisms will not go away. Left unaddressed, they'll just fester and grow with inevitable consequences.

[Smartie]

Why on earth would they answer such detailed and specific tailored questions which would have to result in criticising existing employees and probably hanging them out to dry. What sort of organization would ever answer questions on such detailed operational details, especially at a time like this. No matter how they answered these they would be slaughtered, there is no real way they could answer them, and in reality should answer them.

People have lost their minds, and in all honesty I do not blame Hibs for pulling this, its got ridiculous, and if HSL expected such a detailed discussion then they are totally culpable in this being cancelled.

HSL should be managing expectations on this, and if this is the level of discussion they expect in an open forum then to be fair I can see why they don't get much respect.

As someone else above said, people need to be realistic in their expectations, and this is nowhere near realistic for anyone's sake. And without thinking too deeply you are almost expecting them to discuss peoples detailed job performance ratings on a public forum. Pretty sure that's not acceptable in most peoples jobs.

There’s a media savvy and carefully worded answer making exactly the point you have made… if only we had people with 1. The intelligence to come up with it, and 2. To actually be arsed turning up rather than pulling a sickie.


Every day represents an opportunity for Hibs to turn around, if they can just be arsed trying to do so.

Edit - just noticed ODS provided just that answer, which was imo not much short of a masterpiece. There is a serious disconnect between the club and the fans and it needn’t exist. The club are doing absolutely nothing to help themselves here though, nothing at all.

[scm70nyd1973]

Fans of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal are customers. If they walk away they are instantly replaced by somebody else, in fact these clubs are probably more than pleased when a 'legacy fan' who has been going for 40 years but would never set foot in the club shop and wouldn't be seen dead wearing whatever overpriced tat they are selling gives up their seat. That seat can now be filled with a Scandinavian, Chinese or American tourist who will come and spend a fortune for the experience and then get on a plane loaded down with merchandise.

Hibs situation is rather different and they would do very well to remember that. Every single Hibs season ticket holder who decides not to renew is missed and leaves an empty seat behind. And that will impact Hibs financial performance. These people aren't going to go and watch Hearts instead, in the way someone who doesn't like Tesco's bakery section might give Asda a go. If they give up the habit they are lost to the game and the club.

Technically we may be classed as supporters, but this is a very long way from a normal 'business'.

And that one person might have a ST for some kids who at that age could well end up switching allegiance - especially after long term pain - so not just one bum on seat lost but several and bigger future unmeasurable losses by stealth 😡

[McD]

Daniel from HSL replied to stalbanshibby. See post 205.



Cheers, I had seen that, I was more meaning prior to the meeting, if HSL hadn’t wanted the thread on here, they’d have reached out to stalbins fairly quickly to ask for it to be taken down

[son of haggart]

Fans of Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal are customers. If they walk away they are instantly replaced by somebody else, in fact these clubs are probably more than pleased when a 'legacy fan' who has been going for 40 years but would never set foot in the club shop and wouldn't be seen dead wearing whatever overpriced tat they are selling gives up their seat. That seat can now be filled with a Scandinavian, Chinese or American tourist who will come and spend a fortune for the experience and then get on a plane loaded down with merchandise.

Hibs situation is rather different and they would do very well to remember that. Every single Hibs season ticket holder who decides not to renew is missed and leaves an empty seat behind. And that will impact Hibs financial performance. These people aren't going to go and watch Hearts instead, in the way someone who doesn't like Tesco's bakery section might give Asda a go. If they give up the habit they are lost to the game and the club.

Technically we may be classed as supporters, but this is a very long way from a normal 'business'.

Excellent post

I wish people in the hierarchy of Scottish football felt and acted as if this was the case

[Glory Lurker]

And this is something that goes to the root of my anger with the people who have made such a complete catastrophe of the football side of the club. Hearts have a season ticket waiting list, we have a season ticket casualty list. It’s unforgivable and the damage they have done will last for years to come.

Aw, man. Dinnae fall for the tiny season ticket queue myth! I actually think this is the most objectionable thing I've ever seen you write! 🤣

[One Day Soon]

Aw, man. Dinnae fall for the tiny season ticket queue myth! I actually think this is the most objectionable thing I've ever seen you write! 🤣

That’s really saying something…

[flash]

That’s really saying something…

Indeed. It doesn't even make my top 20.

[Jdawg]

A Jambo mate of mine, reckons fan ownership is the way to go. I think when HSL first came into being, that was the aspiration, but I don't think they ever got the numbers, sadly. Until that happens (if it ever does), us supporters will, to an extent, be at the mercy of whoever is owning / running the club. It's pretty plain to see we currently have a bunch of muppets. I suspect you're right - this will play out for years to come.

Hearts would be absolutely screwed if it wasn’t for the huge donations from James Anderson every season (their fans do plough in a large amount of cash each year to be fair though). Their ownership model has been through turmoil tail end of last season and this one.

[JimBHibees]

Hearts would be absolutely screwed if it wasn’t for the huge donations from James Anderson every season (their fans do plough in a large amount of cash each year to be fair though). Their ownership model has been through turmoil tail end of last season and this one.

An important factor when comparing us to the gorgie dream machine

[Bostonhibby]

A Jambo mate of mine, reckons fan ownership is the way to go. I think when HSL first came into being, that was the aspiration, but I don't think they ever got the numbers, sadly. Until that happens (if it ever does), us supporters will, to an extent, be at the mercy of whoever is owning / running the club. It's pretty plain to see we currently have a bunch of muppets. I suspect you're right - this will play out for years to come.It's certainly a good way of demonstrating how to make a bigger nett loss on an increased turnover if you take away the one big donator the financial model isn't one I'd want to see us run.

And that's before adjusting the thinking to it being a football club and the relative "success" all that turnover has bought.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[easty]

Me. There's very little, in fact, almost nothing, I like about the club right now.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Because we’re ****.

If this team was winning, you wouldn’t care about what was going on with the Gordon’s or Ben Kensell etc.

[easty]

A Jambo mate of mine, reckons fan ownership is the way to go. I think when HSL first came into being, that was the aspiration, but I don't think they ever got the numbers, sadly. Until that happens (if it ever does), us supporters will, to an extent, be at the mercy of whoever is owning / running the club. It's pretty plain to see we currently have a bunch of muppets. I suspect you're right - this will play out for years to come.

Hearts financially rely on James Anderson. Any Hearts fan who doesn’t acknowledge that is an idiot.

I cannae aspire to be run like a team who’ve had millions and millions of money more than us going through them for years, but who haven’t won anything since 2012. More relegations than trophies since fan ownership.

As for the season ticket waiting list mentioned in another post - I know a lot of hearts fans, I’ve never heard of any of them who cannae get a season ticket and are on this imaginary waiting list, anyone know anyone waiting? I suspect not.

[CentreLine]

Hearts would be absolutely screwed if it wasn’t for the huge donations from James Anderson every season (their fans do plough in a large amount of cash each year to be fair though). Their ownership model has been through turmoil tail end of last season and this one.

Agreed but I don’t think any has or is talking about fan ownership for Hibs, only enough shares to be able to moderate more challenging situations. As it stands it seems the club have ensure that cannot happen. What can happen is that the support rallies behind HSL and HSL, in turn, can then approach the club, from a stronger position, representing a high proportion of the support.

[green day]

Hearts financially rely on James Anderson. Any Hearts fan who doesn’t acknowledge that is an idiot.

They have talked themselves into believing that - if the Anderson £5m pa disappeared - that Hearts would just "cut their cloth accordingly".

Conveniently, they ignore that Hearts have never "cut their cloth" in my living memory - which has led to bampot owners, overspending, and ultimately administration.