Putting some myths about this squad to bed

[He's here!]

A recurring myth of late is that this squad is too good to be bottom of the league. This seems to be based on little more than the fact we signed a stack of new players in the summer.

Problem is most of us had never heard of most of the new players let alone seen them play, so we have no real idea if they're any better than those who have moved on. Based on the fact we've won just a single game all season it seems reasonable to suggest this is actually just a c**p squad.

Another myth which the players themselves have tried to perpetuate is that they're 'fighting for the boss'. Yesterday's pitiful display kicked that pretence into touch.

I'm old enough to have seen all 3 Hibs relegation seasons since 79/80 and based on what we've been subjected to so far this squad looks to be worse than any of those that went down. There's not a single player who offers an iota of character, confidence, leadership or potential to turn a game. Bowie may have been an exception but we may never know. Blanket mediocrity is all they offer.

[Carheenlea]

A recurring myth of late is that this squad is too good to be bottom of the league. This seems to be based on little more than the fact we signed a stack of new players in the summer.

Problem is most of us had never heard of most of the new players let alone seen them play, so we have no real idea if they're any better than those who have moved on. Based on the fact we've won just a single game all season it seems reasonable to suggest this is actually just a c**p squad.

Another myth which the players themselves have tried to perpetuate is that they're 'fighting for the boss'. Yesterday's pitiful display kicked that pretence into touch.

I'm old enough to have seen all 3 Hibs relegation seasons since 79/80 and based on what we've been subjected to so far this squad looks to be worse than any of those that went down. There's not a single player who offers an iota of character, confidence, leadership or potential to turn a game. Bowie may have been an exception but we may never know. Blanket mediocrity is all they offer.

David Gray even lamented the lack of fight. Whether that is fight for the boss, fight for the club or fight for the fans it should t really matter who for.

The first people the players need to be fighting for is themselves, and if they are halfhearted at that then it says a lot about the collective personality of the squad.

[He's here!]

David Gray even lamented the lack of fight. Whether that is fight for the boss, fight for the club or fight for the fans it should t really matter who for.

The first people the players need to be fighting for is themselves, and if they are halfhearted at that then it says a lot about the collective personality of the squad.

What was the collective mentality taking to the field yesterday? The performance was pathetic from kick-off so you have to assume the pre-match stuff about being determined to turn things around was nothing but hot air. St Mirren were hammered 4-0 the last time they came to Edinburgh to play the league's bottom club. Yesterday they could have been four up by half time.

We have nobody who either leads by example or who has the personality to inspire this collection of fearful, bang average players.

How much, you wonder, do they truly care? At the end of the day they're getting paid while it's the fans who pay to watch them who really feel the pain of their ineptitude.

As another poster has said, there was a sense that yesterday was the game where we had to shake off the tales of bad luck and really go all out for the win. At no time did we look like doing that and the sense of letdown/disgust in the stands was palpable.

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

I don't agree with the narrative we are too good to be bottom. We have a woeful goalkeeper, defenders who make too many basic errors, a midfield who are totally inept of any creativity and a forward line who don't score many goals. We are where we deserve to be.

[flash]

One goal before the 43rd minute all season.

Absolutely scandalous.

[Jim44]

A recurring myth of late is that this squad is too good to be bottom of the league. This seems to be based on little more than the fact we signed a stack of new players in the summer.

Problem is most of us had never heard of most of the new players let alone seen them play, so we have no real idea if they're any better than those who have moved on. Based on the fact we've won just a single game all season it seems reasonable to suggest this is actually just a c**p squad.

Another myth which the players themselves have tried to perpetuate is that they're 'fighting for the boss'. Yesterday's pitiful display kicked that pretence into touch.

I'm old enough to have seen all 3 Hibs relegation seasons since 79/80 and based on what we've been subjected to so far this squad looks to be worse than any of those that went down. There's not a single player who offers an iota of character, confidence, leadership or potential to turn a game. Bowie may have been an exception but we may never know. Blanket mediocrity is all they offer.

Talking about myths, the biggest and most constant myth is that we are, were, and always will be a ‘big’ club. This assumed and deluded sense of entitlement, and I include myself, has crumbled steadily over the years and we have tragically reached a point where our delusion is a farce and a real source of amusement to others. Just as addicts and alcoholics have to publicly declare their problems before turning things round, maybe it’s high time we accepted that we no longer are a big club and might never be one in the foreseeable future unless we attemp to rebuild from what solid foundations are left. Easier said than done, I admit, but constantly and temporarily patching holes is a recipe for inevitable disaster.

[BoomtownHibees]

One goal before the 43rd minute all season.

Absolutely scandalous.

Mainly comes from our approach to starting games. I can’t remember one game this season when we have came out and started with a bit of intensity, getting after teams from the first whistle

[Skol]

The fact is that we are bottom and staring relegation in the face. However, we have a squad that shouldn’t be where they are. The possibilities are there, but at present something is stopping us performing

[Callum_62]

Mainly comes from our approach to starting games. I can’t remember one game this season when we have came out and started with a bit of intensity, getting after teams from the first whistleI'm not sure we ever play with real Intensity

My dad made that point early in the game - that mirren have started like they are a goal down with 10 mins to go and we cannot cope with it

Any team a team steps it up, we arnt good enough to deal withit

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

Talking about myths, the biggest and most constant myth is that we are, were, and always will be a ‘big’ club. This assumed and deluded sense of entitlement, and I include myself, has crumbled steadily over the years and we have tragically reached a point where our delusion is a farce and a real source of amusement to others. Just as addicts and alcoholics have to publicly declare their problems before turning things round, maybe it’s high time we accepted that we no longer are a big club and might never be one in the foreseeable future unless we attemp to rebuild from what solid foundations are left. Easier said than done, I admit, but constantly and temporarily patching holes is a recipe for inevitable disaster.

We remain a big club in Scotland due to our potential support base. That's pretty much it these days. Other clubs certainly don't regard a trip to ER as a bigger game than any other nor a visit from Hibs as big game on the fixture list.

[He's here!]

The fact is that we are bottom and staring relegation in the face. However, we have a squad that shouldn’t be where they are. The possibilities are there, but at present something is stopping us performing

What are you seeing that makes you think we're underperforming?

[wookie70]

We seem to need a break to start working hard and showing urgency. We fall out the traps pretty much every game but the last 5 or 10 minutes yesterday show we have it in us to press, harry and pressure our opponents. Why we don't start games that way is a mystery and yesterday was truly awful. Every shoulder to shoulder and 50:50 was won by St Mirren players. We looked half asleep and when they had teh ball we never got near them. We have massive issues and they appear to be all over the park. I'm the same as the other poster in having watch all three relegations. This team is no better than those that have been relegated and I'm not sure it is all about quality. I think this is a team that feels sorry for itself and is not looking to win their own battles. We lack drive both physically and mentally and that is hard to turn round.

[bod]

potential yes, alas not enough pay to watch us at home & who could blame them

[Skol]

What are you seeing that makes you think we're underperforming?

Not much right now, but I know for many In the squad, they can do better and collectively they could be much better.

[GreenCastle]

Every week same pre match chat..same post match chat in interviews..

A keeper on loan who won’t be here next season - doesn’t care if we get relegated as he won’t be here.

2 loan centre midfielders who started yesterday - see above

Boyle - wants away to Australia

Hoilett and Gayle - being professional but won’t be here next season

Myko - another loan - won’t be here next season - doesn’t care if we go down

Mckirdy / Youan - don’t care - won’t be here next season

Newell - new contract - getting paid easy money - will be here still getting paid a fortune

Cadden and Miller could easily be away in summer due to end of contracts - do they care enough?

There is no co-incidence we have a team of players not actually arsed what the outcome is as they won’t have to deal with consequences. Last week 4 loans started - that’s not how you build a team.

[7Hero]

I don't hear or see any recurring myths that this team is too good to go down, not sure how your come up with that

Yhe majority of Hibs fans are agreed that this team is utter mince and more than capable of going down..

[Skol]

St Mirren played a canny game yesterday, putting pressure on us when we had the ball, closing space and essentially waiting for us to make mistakes. They knew we wouldnt create much.

Hoilett has been our best performer so far, but he didn’t contribute yesterday. Our midfield three were all poor. In prior games one of them sometimes does better. Boyle has been poor for a long time. Youan is not the player we saw last year.

We improved when rocky and levitt came on and they were last seasons boo boys.

[Smartie]

The squad has a decent number of players who would be decent enough in the right set up but collectively I think that squad is a shambles that any head coach would be doing well to get much more out of.

Goalie is decent most of the time, a costly shambles at others.

Full backs who can’t defend.

Several acceptable options at RCB, nobody who is comfortable at LCB.

Loads of samey Jack of all trades master of none midfielders whose sum of parts always totals less than the individual bits.

The front line… where do you start? How do you get that lot scoring? An assortment of bad attitudes, declining physical attributes who everybody thinks should be doing better. A decent side might carry one of our forwards on the bench but good luck anyone getting them firing together - it’s simply not going to happen.

It’s tempting to blame the sporting director, the head coach and all sorts but in truth it’s a situation that is just the culmination of years of idiotic strategy and successive abysmal transfer windows. I’d love to sack another manager and for it all to go away but that’s not going to happen as the problems run too deep.

No idea what the answer is. Tbh, a relegation and a total reset probably isn’t the worst idea, as long as somebody underwrites that financially.

[Smartie]

St Mirren played a canny game yesterday, putting pressure on us when we had the ball, closing space and essentially waiting for us to make mistakes. They knew we wouldnt create much.

Hoilett has been our best performer so far, but he didn’t contribute yesterday. Our midfield three were all poor. In prior games one of them sometimes does better. Boyle has been poor for a long time. Youan is not the player we saw last year.

We improved when rocky and levitt came on and they were last seasons boo boys.

St Mirren do the same thing to us every time.

We don’t have the answers.

[He's here!]

I don't hear or see any recurring myths that this team is too good to go down, not sure how your come up with that

Yhe majority of Hibs fans are agreed that this team is utter mince and more than capable of going down..

If you read a lot of the threads there's almost always someone claiming there's no way this squad should be bottom of the league.

[WhileTheChief..]

The fact is that we are bottom and staring relegation in the face. However, we have a squad that shouldn’t be where they are. The possibilities are there, but at present something is stopping us performing

I think our legume position reflects the state of our squad perfectly.

It's the worst squad in the league with possibly the worst manager trying to get it to work.

[hibee-boys]

I don’t think it’s anywhere near the worst squad. Unfortunately the team is performing like they don’t give a sxxx combined with horrendous tactics/team selections.

[Since90+2]

Talking about myths, the biggest and most constant myth is that we are, were, and always will be a ‘big’ club. This assumed and deluded sense of entitlement, and I include myself, has crumbled steadily over the years and we have tragically reached a point where our delusion is a farce and a real source of amusement to others. Just as addicts and alcoholics have to publicly declare their problems before turning things round, maybe it’s high time we accepted that we no longer are a big club and might never be one in the foreseeable future unless we attemp to rebuild from what solid foundations are left. Easier said than done, I admit, but constantly and temporarily patching holes is a recipe for inevitable disaster.

In Scottish terms we are a big club. Means absolutely nothing in reality though if the team is so poor .

[HarpOnHibee]

The biggest let down are the tactics. We seem to have some very outdated concepts at the club as to what constitutes as good football. Until that is addressed, no amount of player overhauls are going to address it. We make it far too easy for each team to do the same thing to us time and time again because our style is painfully predictable.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

I think our legume position reflects the state of our squad perfectly.

It's the worst squad in the league with possibly the worst manager trying to get it to work.

Yeah, they’re just a bunch of has beans.

[DIXIHIBS]

Talking about myths, the biggest and most constant myth is that we are, were, and always will be a ‘big’ club. This assumed and deluded sense of entitlement, and I include myself, has crumbled steadily over the years and we have tragically reached a point where our delusion is a farce and a real source of amusement to others. Just as addicts and alcoholics have to publicly declare their problems before turning things round, maybe it’s high time we accepted that we no longer are a big club and might never be one in the foreseeable future unless we attemp to rebuild from what solid foundations are left. Easier said than done, I admit, but constantly and temporarily patching holes is a recipe for inevitable disaster.

You get into the argument about what is a 'big club'. For most people it is based on support. That being the the case we are comfortably top 5. If it is budget/turnover...again top 5. Over the last 30 years or so no one outside the old firm has been particularly successful with silverware so I disagree with you. In Scotland we are a 'big but unsuccessful club' imo.

[jakedance]

I don’t think at all that we’re too good to be bottom of the league. I do think a better manager would be able to get enough out of them to reach the heights of 10th though.

[He's here!]

I don’t think at all that we’re too good to be bottom of the league. I do think a better manager would be able to get enough out of them to reach the heights of 10th though.

10th would be a cause for celebration right now.

[McGruber]

One goal before the 43rd minute all season.

Absolutely scandalous.

And lowest scorers in the league.

We lost Myziane and Youan's goals and assists and haven't replaced. Youan is still here in body only.

Vente wasn't scoring so we moved him out but replaced him with Myko, someone we hoped would score but had no history of scoring regularly before.

Bowie looks a very good player though we took a chance signing him injured and Gayle is well into the twilight zone and has hamstrings like violin strings.

Boyle has been a tremendous servant for us but his star had started to fade last season.

McKirdy is still here - no goals

We also play without a number 10 with hardly any creativity through the middle of the pitch.

Nobody can shoot from distance.

No wonder we can't score goals.

[scm70nyd1973]

Yeah, they’re just a bunch of has beans.

You sir have stepped into dangerous pun territory 🤭

[Since452]

I don't think we are too good to be bottom. I just don't think these players are very good. They are pretty much where they should be. Scary thought.

[Musselbound]

I don't agree with the narrative we are too good to be bottom. We have a woeful goalkeeper, defenders who make too many basic errors, a midfield who are totally inept of any creativity and a forward line who don't score many goals. We are where we deserve to be.

Totally agree.

[Keith_M]

I'm going to go against the grain... as I often do :wink:... and suggest that, while there are some players I'd happily get rid of right now, I genuinely think we have the potential in the current squad to be in a comfortable position in the league right now.

Before anybody takes that the wrong way, I'm not saying we're (currently) good enough to be challenging for third /fourth place, which is ultimately where I want us to be, I'm thinking more around 5th-7th.

Not where I want us to be but not nearly as bad as facing relegation.

---

The problem to me is two-fold:

First up is Gray. His idea of how to play as a team appears to be slow, negative and ponderous (like his predecessors). This makes us so much easier to play against, as we're so predictable. He also doesn't seem to have grasped yet our defensive issues, with teams still waltzing through our defence, especially through the right-back position.

The second problem appears to be the mentality of the squad. As is obvious to anybody that's watched them for the last 18 months or so, they just can't see out a game, with an almost inevitable collapse in the last 10-15 minutes.

I genuinely think we need to get somebody in to the club to sort out that mentality issue, whether it be a decent coach... or a whole bloody psychology department.

[snedzuk]

I'm going to go against the grain... as I often do :wink:... and suggest that, while there are some players I'd happily get rid of right now, I genuinely think we have the potential in the current squad to be in a comfortable position in the league right now.

Before anybody takes that the wrong way, I'm not saying we're (currently) good enough to be challenging for third /fourth place, which is ultimately where I want us to be, I'm thinking more around 5th-7th.

Not where I want us to be but not nearly as bad as facing relegation.

---

The problem to me is two-fold:

First up is Gray. His idea of how to play as a team appears to be slow, negative and ponderous (like his predecessors). This makes us so much easier to play against, as we're so predictable. He also doesn't seem to have grasped yet our defensive issues, with teams still waltzing through our defence, especially through the left-back position.


The second problem appears to be the mentality of the squad. As is obvious to anybody that's watched them for the last 18 months or so, they just can't see out a game, with an almost inevitable collapse in the last 10-15 minutes.

I genuinely think we need to get somebody in to the club to sort out that mentality issue, whether it be a decent coach... or a whole bloody psychology department.

"His idea of how to play as a team appears to be slow, negative and ponderous"

Yep - and I really don't get this. Setting aside THAT goal, Gray scored some wonderful goals for Hibs including that shot in the 4.0 v Rangers and another header from about 2 yards at Ibrox. Maybe someone needs to do a Gray highlights reel to remind him what attacking looks like.