Jack Ross

[dastardly8]

We should have stuck with him , albeit he had one dire run which cost him apart from that done a reasonable solid job , since him we have spiralled downwards at a rate of knots

[Septimus]

We should have stuck with him , albeit he had one dire run which cost him apart from that done a reasonable solid job , since him we have spiralled downwards at a rate of knots

Agreed

[matty_f]

We should have stuck with him , albeit he had one dire run which cost him apart from that done a reasonable solid job , since him we have spiralled downwards at a rate of knots

The Jack Ross chat has been done to death but there’s a reason his side started to slump and it would have continued to slump because the recruitment has been dreadful.

We have a signing policy that has progressively made the team worse season on season.

Hopefully, the “new” regime under Malky addresses this quickly so the current and future head coaches have a fighting chance of achieving something.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I've always said he was incredibly unfortunate.

He never even really got the plaudits he deserved for that excellent 20-21 season due to fans feeling literally disconnected by not being able to attend.

I remember many posts on here that season from people saying they just couldn't feel anything. A general malaise. We didn't realise how good we had it.

[BoomtownHibees]

Somebody should have mentioned this before

[patlowe]

As someone above was getting at, the recruitment issue has been staring us in the face for years and to some extent it doesn't really matter who is in charge when that continues to be the case.

It really shouldn't be so difficult to be moderately successful in this poor league and for my money there's a lot of Jack Ross types in the world who could do that for us if we had a semi-competent footballing department behind the scenes.

[Nicho87]

Maloney should have got more time

[Coco Bryce]

Sauzee should have got more time.

[Smartie]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

[matty_f]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

Agreed.

[He's here!]

The Jack Ross chat has been done to death but there’s a reason his side started to slump and it would have continued to slump because the recruitment has been dreadful.

We have a signing policy that has progressively made the team worse season on season.

Hopefully, the “new” regime under Malky addresses this quickly so the current and future head coaches have a fighting chance of achieving something.

Did the Gordons' signing strategy impact on Ross's tenure? I'd have to check but my memory of his early days was of him bringing in relatively solid signings who you could see would fit with the Scottish game, as well as getting more out of some of Hecky's signings. Took a bit of a gamble on Magennis but it seemed worth it as you could see there was a player there. It was the later loan/hard to fathom signings (Nathan Wood, James Scott) which made you wonder what direction we were going in.

[Hibees1973]

Ron, Ian Gordon and Kensell couldn't wait to sack Ross.

They had already sacked a whole number of staff at the club who had done a very good job over a number of years.

Ross had the best % win rate of any Hibs manager for decades and had us in a position to consolidate 3rd place in the league, if he was backed properly in the transfer market.

This was the start of our demise which has put us where we are now. Bottom of the league.

[patlowe]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

Agreed though funnily enough LJ did get backed through a sticky spell (including two derby pumpings) and managed to turn it around to the point we almost sneaked 4th. I don't rate him at all but you could argue his subsequent sacking was the harshest of the lot, given the mitigating circumstances for those opening 3 league games.

[Donegal Hibby]

Ron, Ian Gordon and Kensell couldn't wait to sack Ross.

They had already sacked a whole number of staff at the club who had done a very good job over a number of years.

Ross had the best % win rate of any Hibs manager for decades and had us in a position to consolidate 3rd place in the league, if he was backed properly in the transfer market.

This was the start of our demise which has put us where we are now. Bottom of the league.

I think there was probably plenty of fans that wanted it too though.

[tonyrougier123]

Jack Ross was a very competent coach, however he too had his flaws, in recruitment and in stubborn tactics. It’s hard to judge how Jack might’ve done if he was allowed to freely sign players like we have recently. I’ve no doubt mcgenniss was Ross signing getting rid of Gogic and Paul mcginn might’ve been on him also. But we needed cbs badly under Ross and he was giving a youngster from down south and didn’t play him, clear sign Ross and recruitment weren’t on the same page. Some games he was tactically naive and on the big stage we did struggle to muster a performance. I say all this as a Jack Ross backer. It wasn’t plain sailing under his tutelage wether his entire fault well that’s debatable.

[Leitherhibs]

Fred West should have got more time.

[greenpaper55]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

[overdrive]

Jack Ross was a very competent coach, however he too had his flaws, in recruitment and in stubborn tactics. It’s hard to judge how Jack might’ve done if he was allowed to freely sign players like we have recently. I’ve no doubt mcgenniss was Ross signing getting rid of Gogic and Paul mcginn might’ve been on him also. But we needed cbs badly under Ross and he was giving a youngster from down south and didn’t play him, clear sign Ross and recruitment weren’t on the same page. Some games he was tactically naive and on the big stage we did struggle to muster a performance. I say all this as a Jack Ross backer. It wasn’t plain sailing under his tutelage wether his entire fault well that’s debatable.

He signed them both and they left after he was sacked

[JimBHibees]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

Totally agree. Far too reactive from the club. Sometimes you need to back someone and give them a proper chance. Neither Maloney or Montgomery got summer and a preseason.

[JimBHibees]

Agreed though funnily enough LJ did get backed through a sticky spell (including two derby pumpings) and managed to turn it around to the point we almost sneaked 4th. I don't rate him at all but you could argue his subsequent sacking was the harshest of the lot, given the mitigating circumstances for those opening 3 league games.

Fair point.

[tonyrougier123]

He signed them both and they left after he was sacked

Wasn’t sure about that tbh. Thought both left under him. Especially gogic

[Cooshed Kid]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

I will never forget or forgive the gutlessness shown by the team in the Cup Final. It's one thing to be beaten on the pitch. It's quite another to be beaten before you step onto it.

[Since452]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

He was a victim of getting to cup finals. His cup record was astonishing. Losing at the semi and final stages massively went against him. There would have been less noise if we'd exited the cups earlier.

[SHODAN]

We should have appointed Michael O'Neill instead of Pat Fenton.

[Smartie]

Agreed though funnily enough LJ did get backed through a sticky spell (including two derby pumpings) and managed to turn it around to the point we almost sneaked 4th. I don't rate him at all but you could argue his subsequent sacking was the harshest of the lot, given the mitigating circumstances for those opening 3 league games.

LJ is possibly the one that I thought was harshest - mainly because of the timing. 3 games into the season, with the transfer window still open, with a decent European result already under his belt that season and with a "respectable" 5th placed finish in his only full season in charge, he had a certain amount of credit in the bank to be allowed to continue. His problem, for me, was that a "numpty narrative" was allowed to develop, whereby some of the stuff that he used to say in the press was used against him. As an example, we'd be thinking he was an idiot for talking about being chased by lions, when there was actually a very valid point being made that we had stats and evidence available to suggest players weren't doing more to get back when they were in fact perfectly capable. His career is probably going to end up being sunk by whoever it was during his time at Sunderland who made up the "David Brent" thing.

The one I've been most critical of was Maloney. I hated the football, I couldn't see what we were trying to do and the weeks without a shot on goal were torture. Even now though I think the point needs to be made about what you plan to do when you appoint a rookie manager, especially one you provide with a genuinely terrible group of attacking players. With time, I've even mellowed on the need to get rid of him and there were mitigating factors all over the shop, including a senior player idiotically getting himself sent off in his final, huge game.

[tonyrougier123]

He was a victim of getting to cup finals.

He had some of the easiest draws to those finals as well, I’d take it now 🤦*♂️😂.
But the finals were terrible unfathomable performances.

Getting gubbed by Dundee Utd and Livingston were particularly bad games that stuck in my mind. I thought Jack Ross spoke volumes about his tenure with the teams he picked.

He wasn’t backed, and we dropped that ball at the very wrong time when auto qualification was on offer for 3rd place finishes.

Been downhill since.

[leith lynx]

We should have appointed Michael O'Neill instead of Pat Fenton.

Micheal O'Neill should be targeted as the next Hibs manager.

[He's here!]

We should have appointed Michael O'Neill instead of Pat Fenton.

From what I recall we would have done, but a certain person from outwith the club stepped in to scupper his hopes.

Personally I've always thought Alex Neil is the one to consider. Currently out of work but with a pretty decent CV.

[Shrekko]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

The crowd at Hibs gets more than 'restless' - it also disappears in droves very quickly, and that's what they're terrified off.

What needs to really stop is the absolutely terrible appointments but do agree some of them needed more patience. In saying that I could not have put up with the 'football' served up by Maloney or Montgomery for much longer.

[Greenbeard]

Maloney should have got more time
Can't argue that he wasn't a promising appointment at the time. But regrettably didn't (and subsequently hasn't) fulfilled that promise.

[tamig]

Sauzee should have got more time.

Nonsense. No comparison. Sauzee’s was a purely romantic appointment. There were no signs sadly that he could turn things around. I remember a particularly dire game at Stranraer in the cup. JR had a ton of credit in the bank. Apart from with some of the “Hibs way” mentalists on here.

[Coco Bryce]

Nonsense. No comparison. Sauzee’s was a purely romantic appointment. There were no signs sadly that he could turn things around. I remember a particularly dire game at Stranraer in the cup. JR had a ton of credit in the bank. Apart from with some of the “Hibs way” mentalists on here.

I was joking.

[MWHIBBIES]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

Imagine if we punted managers after every bad cup final result :faf:

3rd and a cup final and he should've been punted. Ridiculous. Who do we think we are?

Should we have punted Stubbs after Ross County final?

[allezsauzee]

As the pressure builds on the latest incumbent, the more I'm convinced we should have given more time to Heckingbottom, Ross, Maloney, Johnson, Montgomery and that we should now give more time to Gray.

This punting of the manager the second the crowd gets restless HAS to stop as it's contributing to the endless downward spiral of failure. None of these managers have been backed through a blip and therefore I don't think any of us can or should say that they have been definitive failures.

Heckingbottom is the only one of those who I think was hard done by. He's subsequently did well with Sheffield United before failing to do the impossible in keeping them in the EPL with Championship standard players. Seems be have steadied Preston also as they are unbeaten in 5 after getting the job in August. Ross's career isn't exactly blossoming since leaving Hibs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The crowd at Hibs gets more than 'restless' - it also disappears in droves very quickly, and that's what they're terrified off.

What needs to really stop is the absolutely terrible appointments but do agree some of them needed more patience. In saying that I could not have put up with the 'football' served up by Maloney or Montgomery for much longer.
Not sure about that. Our crowds have held up remarkably well for his **** we’ve been. And I say that as someone who has disappeared.

[allezsauzee]

Not sure about that. Our crowds have held up remarkably well for his **** we’ve been. And I say that as someone who has disappeared.

Agreed, our average attendance this season is similar to what it was when Mowbray was manager which considering the difference in product quality says a lot for the fans loyalty.

[onfire]

💯 correct and we have paid the price since unfortunately.

[onfire]

💯 correct and we have paid the price since unfortunately.

[hibeerealist]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not


This.

Jack Ross is not missed by many Hibs fans, ask Sunderland and Dundee Utd fans how much he is missed there.

[blackpoolhibs]

Ron, Ian Gordon and Kensell couldn't wait to sack Ross.

They had already sacked a whole number of staff at the club who had done a very good job over a number of years.

Ross had the best % win rate of any Hibs manager for decades and had us in a position to consolidate 3rd place in the league, if he was backed properly in the transfer market.

This was the start of our demise which has put us where we are now. Bottom of the league.

Exactly, as soon as they got their grubby hands on the club, they have ****ed us over with their vision.:faf:

[One Day]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

I thought so too

[Kato]

He was a victim of getting to cup finals. His cup record was astonishing. Losing at the semi and final stages massively went against him. There would have been less noise if we'd exited the cups earlier.That's a load of bollards.

Take those games one at a time, you find yourself in semis and finals.

He couldn't find a way to beat St Johnstone, plain and simple.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[blackpoolhibs]

That's a load of bollards.

Take those games one at a time, you find yourself in semis and finals.

He couldn't find a way to beat St Johnstone, plain and simple.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

We dont need to bother with those type of games anymore, teams like Kelty Hearts and Falkirk have put paid to that.

[Pagan Hibernia]

I thought so too

you agree he should have been sacked at the end of a season in which he got us 3rd in the league and lost a scottish cup final?

the performance against St Johnstone was wretched no doubt about it, really really poor, but to imagine he should have been sacked immediately after getting us a third place finish is madness imo.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Sauzee should have got more time.


Malcolm McPhersons judgement - has it improved any since then (when as I’ve raised before was mentioned in the Hibs Observer - overlooked the advice from Sir Alex on recruitment of rookie managers - don’t!)

[MWHIBBIES]

Those who think he should've been sacked after getting 3rd and losing the cup final - should we have sacked Neil Lennon after he got 4th with a much better Hibs side, and lost to Craig Leveins hearts in the 3rd round?

[Broken Gnome]

Those who think he should've been sacked after getting 3rd and losing the cup final - should we have sacked Neil Lennon after he got 4th with a much better Hibs side, and lost to Craig Leveins hearts in the 3rd round?

There's hugely different context there.

[jacomo]

The Jack Ross chat has been done to death but there’s a reason his side started to slump and it would have continued to slump because the recruitment has been dreadful.

We have a signing policy that has progressively made the team worse season on season.

Hopefully, the “new” regime under Malky addresses this quickly so the current and future head coaches have a fighting chance of achieving something.


Jack Ross, had he retained the trust of the hierarchy, might have persuaded them to sign better players. We’ll never know.

[jacomo]

There's hugely different context there, but you know that of course.


The context is that we were on a bad run and the performances even when we won were often pedestrian. A noisy minority of bored fans turned against him and the board made their move.

We had maybe gone stale and needed to change, but for Hibs to sack their manager a week before a major domestic final, which he had got us to, was an act of utter hubris.

[blackpoolhibs]

Jack Ross, had he retained the trust of the hierarchy, might have persuaded them to sign better players. We’ll never know.

Never going to happen, meglamaniac Ron wanted to do things his way because he knew best, so he appointed his son head of recruitment.

No manager was ever going to succeed under that regime, those victims that succeeded Ross never stood a chance either.

[He's here!]

This.

Jack Ross is not missed by many Hibs fans, ask Sunderland and Dundee Utd fans how much he is missed there.

The post-Ross era has just been so packed with success that I can't imagine why anyone would miss him...

I know several Sunderland fans from my time working down there and he's felt to have done a decent job. Play-off finalists in his first season but fired by a nervy board too soon the following season.

He actually started well at United and their home win over Alkmaar was one of the best results by a Scottish club in Europe for a long time. The pasting they took away from home seemed to utterly kill them tho. Personally I felt he took the wrong job post-Hibs.

We're miles away from what we were achieving under Ross.

[jacomo]

The post-Ross era has just been so packed with success that I can't imagine why anyone would miss him...

I know several Sunderland fans from my time working down there and he's felt to have done a decent job there. Play-off finalists in his first season but fired by a nervy board too soon the following season.

He actually started well at United and their home win over Alkmaar was one of the best results by a Scottish club in Europe for a long time. The pasting they took away from home seemed to utterly kill them tho. Personally I felt he took the wrong job post-Hibs.

We're miles away from what we were achieving under Ross.


Same, I’ve spoken to a couple of Sunderland fans who had only nice things to say about him.

Another club that has suffered with a clueless hierarchy of course.

[He's here!]

That's a load of bollards.

Take those games one at a time, you find yourself in semis and finals.

He couldn't find a way to beat St Johnstone, plain and simple.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Correct.

[Broken Gnome]

The context is that we were on a bad run and the performances even when we won were often pedestrian. A noisy minority of bored fans turned against him and the board made their move.

We had maybe gone stale and needed to change, but for Hibs to sack their manager a week before a major domestic final, which he had got us to, was an act of utter hubris.

I was mainly on the cup comparisons to be honest. The utter failure to work St Johnstone out over about 160 minutes of Hampden football was always going to haunt Ross. We'd played Hearts three times at Tynecastle back to back - getting edged out 1-0 in the latter of the three - didn't really have the same gravity.

[MWHIBBIES]

There's hugely different context there.

Is there? Played slightly better football under Lennon yeah, with much better players. But losing twice to Hearts to cost us the cup and 2nd gets nearly no stick,while Ross gets slaughtered for the two St Johnstone losses.

That St Johnstone side were also as good if not better than Leveins Hearts.

Although Lennon's record Vs St Johnstone was much worse than Ross too. Not a single win.

[A Hi-Bee]

Way to late for crying over spilt milk now, we need better and any decent manager would start with a real goalkeeper.

[Broken Gnome]

Is there? Played slightly better football under Lennon yeah, with much better players. But losing twice to Hearts to cost us the cup and 2nd gets nearly no stick,while Ross gets slaughtered for the two St Johnstone losses.

That St Johnstone side were also as good if not better than Leveins Hearts.

Although Lennon's record Vs St Johnstone was much worse than Ross too. Not a single win.

Fair enough, but the St Johnstone final stands out as the biggest of sticks to beat a Hibs manager with. He had the players, he had the experience, there was really no excuses for that given it our ineptitude was a carbon copy of two earlier games against them.

I'd always give Lennon a fairly easy ride for any negativity around 2017, which I'm sure some would happily pick holes in. That was a very high risk high reward end to the season, and I can't really go down the extreme 'chucked it' claims that others tend to do as that's how I recall the Tynecastle game. Fine margins on the three post-split games we didn't win.

[Smartie]

Malcolm McPhersons judgement - has it improved any since then (when as I’ve raised before was mentioned in the Hibs Observer - overlooked the advice from Sir Alex on recruitment of rookie managers - don’t!)

Far from me to disagree with the great man Ferguson but I think that's one of the few things he's said that I've fundamentally disagreed with.

Should we not have appointed Mowbray or Stubbs?

Should Souness never have got the Rangers job, first spell Lennon never have got the Celtic job?

Should Barcelona have avoided appointing Pep?

When and where should a rookie ever get a chance?

What I do think is that you shouldn't be surprised if a rookie does rookie things, and you might need to face up to a bit of heat and show a bit of patience whilst they do, instead of reaching for the "eject" button whilst they're finding their feet. If you're not prepared to do that then by all means don't appoint a rookie.

[The Tubs]

Malcolm McPhersons judgement - has it improved any since then (when as I’ve raised before was mentioned in the Hibs Observer - overlooked the advice from Sir Alex on recruitment of rookie managers - don’t!)

You'd imagine he's been an influence on some of Man U's last few managerial choices. He might have been a great manager but that doesn't mean he knows how to choose one.

[Hibees1973]

That's a load of bollards.

Take those games one at a time, you find yourself in semis and finals.

He couldn't find a way to beat St Johnstone, plain and simple.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Gray has managed to beat St Johnstone in the league. But only St Johnstone.

So let's keep him then.

[Unseen work]

Interesting Marvin Bartley was speaking about his last game in charge against Livingston last week on open goal

Said he felt as a Livi player that the Hibs players had “given up”

I’m sure that was was a bit of the consensus at the time in that game

[LaMotta]

Those who think he should've been sacked after getting 3rd and losing the cup final - should we have sacked Neil Lennon after he got 4th with a much better Hibs side, and lost to Craig Leveins hearts in the 3rd round?


The context is that we were on a bad run and the performances even when we won were often pedestrian. A noisy minority of bored fans turned against him and the board made their move.

We had maybe gone stale and needed to change, but for Hibs to sack their manager a week before a major domestic final, which he had got us to, was an act of utter hubris.

This argument had been done to death, but it never fails to amaze me that people will still maintain it was the correct to decision to sack Ross.

One of only four managers to get us a third place finish in the last 50 odd years. One of only two managers to beat Hearts at Tynecastle by more than a goal since the 1st January 1973. A manager who got us to Hampden six times in two years (more than we did in two decades from 1980 - 2000) including one of the best wins in living memory with a trouncing of the Huns.

Of course there were failures and his inability to beat St Johnstone was infuriating. But how can people ignore the above successes? How can a Hibs manager ever expect to be deemed a success if we sack someone who achieved all that but sacked him at the first sign of a blip - rather than continue to trust and back him to see if we can go one better next time? Instead people bleat on about boring football and losing too many semis and finals. There may have been a slight argument for his sacking if we had a masterplan to replace him with an excellent manager - instead we appointed a total novice who could barely string a sentence together in an interview and now has Wigan languishing in 19th place in League 1 and calls for his sack there. It was absolutely nuts.

[nlandsafchibee]

This argument had been done to death, but it never fails to amaze me that people will still maintain it was the correct to decision to sack Ross.

One of only four managers to get us a third place finish in the last 50 odd years. One of only two managers to beat Hearts at Tynecastle by more than a goal since the 1st January 1973. A manager who got us to Hampden six times in two years (more than we did in two decades from 1980 - 2000) including one of the best wins in living memory with a trouncing of the Huns.

Of course there were failures and his inability to beat St Johnstone was infuriating. But how can people ignore the above successes? How can a Hibs manager ever expect to be deemed a success if we sack someone who achieved all that but sacked him at the first sign of a blip - rather than continue to trust and back him to see if we can go one better next time? Instead people bleat on about boring football and losing too many semis and finals. There may have been a slight argument for his sacking if we had a masterplan to replace him with an excellent manager - instead we appointed a total novice who could barely string a sentence together in an interview and now has Wigan languishing in 19th place in League 1 and calls for his sack there. It was absolutely nuts.
Quite agree with above and people seem to forget that he improved Josh Doig and Kevin Nisbett and they made a great deal of money for club and it may also be more from sell ons.There are many Managers released by knee jerk actions of Charman but whilst it was too late Ron Gordon admitted that it was a mistake .I dont think he will Manage again as he has moved into different route in Football getting his degree in Sports Directorship and has gained another promotion and new job at Newcastle United (see his Linkedin page if interested ) Constancy in Management helps signicantly towards long term sucess.

[Since90+2]

This argument had been done to death, but it never fails to amaze me that people will still maintain it was the correct to decision to sack Ross.

One of only four managers to get us a third place finish in the last 50 odd years. One of only two managers to beat Hearts at Tynecastle by more than a goal since the 1st January 1973. A manager who got us to Hampden six times in two years (more than we did in two decades from 1980 - 2000) including one of the best wins in living memory with a trouncing of the Huns.

Of course there were failures and his inability to beat St Johnstone was infuriating. But how can people ignore the above successes? How can a Hibs manager ever expect to be deemed a success if we sack someone who achieved all that but sacked him at the first sign of a blip - rather than continue to trust and back him to see if we can go one better next time? Instead people bleat on about boring football and losing too many semis and finals. There may have been a slight argument for his sacking if we had a masterplan to replace him with an excellent manager - instead we appointed a total novice who could barely string a sentence together in an interview and now has Wigan languishing in 19th place in League 1 and calls for his sack there. It was absolutely nuts.

100% spot on. Said it at the time folk were bonkers to want rid of him.

[Since452]

Ross's stats, despite his poor run still hold up against any Hibs manager. The problem wasn't Ross. It was, and still is our owners who think they know if all. People talk about the St Johnsone game. They also knocked out "invincible" Rangers at Ibrox and won the cup double. I'm still sad how it ended but I bet Jack Ross looks at us now and isn't bothered in the slightest.

[Winston Ingram]

We should have stuck with him , albeit he had one dire run which cost him apart from that done a reasonable solid job , since him we have spiralled downwards at a rate of knots

No we shouldn't. We should've hired a better replacement, no a rookie that put the cones out for Belgium.

[Winston Ingram]

Interesting Marvin Bartley was speaking about his last game in charge against Livingston last week on open goal

Said he felt as a Livi player that the Hibs players had “given up”

I’m sure that was was a bit of the consensus at the time in that game

The effort level that night was one of the worst I've seen. The whole squad had become too comfortable. He appeared to all carrot and no stick.

He did well but he'd run his course.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The effort level that night was one of the worst I've seen. The whole squad had become too comfortable. He appeared to all carrot and no stick.

He did well but he'd run his course.

That was the thing for me. The run we were on was horrendous, but the performances were truly dreadful and it doesn’t surprise me that players they came up against thought they’d given up.

Jack Ross was never turning that around, whether it was his fault or the players, it was too far gone and wasn’t simply a bad run, it was a car crash.

[B.H.F.C]

Interesting Marvin Bartley was speaking about his last game in charge against Livingston last week on open goal

Said he felt as a Livi player that the Hibs players had “given up”

I’m sure that was was a bit of the consensus at the time in that game

They had, they’d totally gone. If memory serves me right, we ended the game with 9 men. And that was only a week after a similar performance up at Ross County where we got 2 red cards (1 of which was Boyle after the final whistle).

Think it’s forgotten that we were looking in a real mess by the time he was sacked.

[Jock O]

What I do think is that you shouldn't be surprised if a rookie does rookie things, and you might need to face up to a bit of heat and show a bit of patience whilst they do, instead of reaching for the "eject" button whilst they're finding their feet. If you're not prepared to do that then by all means don't appoint a rookie.

I cannot agree more on this above, I think having lines of succession built into club is the way forward for short term future, and we just need to try and build support systems around this. Which is why I always thought Gray was both right choice and most obvious choice of what was available to Hibs. Obviously giving him the right to bring in his own relatively inexperienced back room staff means McKay is the ultimate support system so maybe going forward that is an area to think of. Although I suppose arguably May could be considered experienced support, but I would say that is stretching it.

Re Ross, I thought it was now admitted by Ron Gordon he had sacked him, partly due to their, I assume, poor relationship, and again he admitted he had probably reacted too quickly, I thought story was he had phoned Kensall after game and told him to do it immediately. So this was all on Ron and not just for football reasons, was how I read this? Either way hindsight often changes how we remember things, I thought timing was daft but having worked in a couple of American organisations wasn't particularly surprised by the brutality of it nor the logic above if that is correct.

He was struggling though, I wasn't enjoying the games I was going to, and I definitely think much of the fan base had turned, which at the time I thought the club had reacted to easily too but if above story is right it was probably a mask for Ron to take action.

[Since452]

The effort level that night was one of the worst I've seen. The whole squad had become too comfortable. He appeared to all carrot and no stick.

He did well but he'd run his course.

If Martin Boyle hadn't missed with one of the worst penalties I've ever seen then that game may have ended differently.

[Coco Bryce]

If Martin Boyle hadn't missed with one of the worst penalties I've ever seen then that game may have ended differently.

That was a shocker which still haunts me to this day.

[Mainstandman]

If Martin Boyle hadn't missed with one of the worst penalties I've ever seen then that game may have ended differently.

Still waiting for that one to come down. that and Paul Hanlon booting the guy for his second yellow to get sent off that appeared to be on purpose, just wanted out of there.

[The Modfather]

No we shouldn't. We should've hired a better replacement, no a rookie that put the cones out for Belgium.

On that line of thought. We’ve now hired the guy who put the cones out for the guy that put the cones out for Belgium.

[Winston Ingram]

If Martin Boyle hadn't missed with one of the worst penalties I've ever seen then that game may have ended differently.

He wasn't just sacked for that game. We'd lost 7 out of 9 games and been awful in pretty much all of them

[Winston Ingram]

On that line of thought. We’ve now hired the guy who put the cones out for the guy that put the cones out for Belgium.

Yep. To add to that, they've hired a team to support who barely even have experience of that. Ludicrous.

[Smartie]

Still waiting for that one to come down. that and Paul Hanlon booting the guy for his second yellow to get sent off that appeared to be on purpose, just wanted out of there.

The decline to there after what had been a very promising start to the season was quite remarkable.

It all seemed to nosedive from the point at which Porto got his controversial red card at Ibrox.

Not a great couple of months but surely to goodness Ross had enough credit in the bank to get January to try to turn it around?

[LaMotta]

The effort level that night was one of the worst I've seen. The whole squad had become too comfortable. He appeared to all carrot and no stick.

He did well but he'd run his course.


That was the thing for me. The run we were on was horrendous, but the performances were truly dreadful and it doesn’t surprise me that players they came up against thought they’d given up.

Jack Ross was never turning that around, whether it was his fault or the players, it was too far gone and wasn’t simply a bad run, it was a car crash.


They had, they’d totally gone. If memory serves me right, we ended the game with 9 men. And that was only a week after a similar performance up at Ross County where we got 2 red cards (1 of which was Boyle after the final whistle).

Think it’s forgotten that we were looking in a real mess by the time he was sacked.

I agree things were bad at that point, understand where you are all coming from.

But for me I dont see why you dont allow someone who has delivered better than the majority of Hibs managers over a 50 year period the chance to improve things again?

He was 2 weeks away from a cup final? He has to be given the chance to win that IMO and he deserved a properly backed Jan transfer window as well. He was well respected and liked by the players as well.

Rather than give someone who has proven they can relatively succeed (or get close to real success) a chance to get back to similar or better positions with the club, we instead chose strategy of bringing in unproven novices to the Scottish game (Maloney, Monty) who looked wholly unconvincing infront of the camera, and so I've no idea how they impressed in interviews.

Why are the positives so easily dismissed by people after a bad run? We still see it with the way Lennon's tenure is looked back on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I agree things were bad at that point, understand where you are all coming from.

But for me I dont see why you dont allow someone who has delivered better than the majority of Hibs managers over a 50 year period the chance to improve things again?

He was 2 weeks away from a cup final? He has to be given the chance to win that IMO and he deserved a properly backed Jan transfer window as well. He was well respected and liked by the players as well.

Rather than give someone who has proven they can relatively succeed (or get close to real success) a chance to get back to similar or better positions with the club, we instead chose strategy of bringing in unproven novices to the Scottish game (Maloney, Monty) who looked wholly unconvincing infront of the camera, and so I've no idea how they impressed in interviews.

Why are the positives so easily dismissed by people after a bad run? We still see it with the way Lennon's tenure is looked back on.

Whilst I get your logic, I honestly think things were clearly way too far gone for him to improve things. Who knows what it was, but imo it was clear as day that he wasn’t turning it round. That run was significantly more of a mess than the one we’re currently on for example. I think people forget (or to be fair, may just not agree with me :greengrin) how bad it was. Week after week it somehow got worse culminating in what almost looked like deliberate acts to get rid of the manager from some players. It was that bad you almost had to laugh at how bad it had got. I honestly just don’t see any way he was ever turning it around.

We sacked him before the cup final and ran Celtic fairly close, taking the lead. Theres not a hope in hell Ross was getting the team to perform like that given the ever worsening performances we were being subjected to imo. If we were just on a run of bad results then he probably would have deserved more time. It was the manner of everything that was going on that suggested he’d completely lost it/lost the dressing room. At that point there’s not really any recovering it.

I don’t disagree about the subsequent appointments, I just don’t think making an arse of them means sacking him was wrong. It just means their appointments were wrong.

[blackpoolhibs]

The Gordons had started their destruction of the club by then, Ian was in charge of signing players and there was not a hope in hell we were going to improve, the club was only going one way as we've seen since.

Ross was fighting a losing battle, and manager after manager since has been working with these restraints.

[ekhibee]

Whilst I get your logic, I honestly think things were clearly way too far gone for him to improve things. Who knows what it was, but imo it was clear as day that he wasn’t turning it round. That run was significantly more of a mess than the one we’re currently on for example. I think people forget (or to be fair, may just not agree with me :greengrin) how bad it was. Week after week it somehow got worse culminating in what almost looked like deliberate acts to get rid of the manager from some players. It was that bad you almost had to laugh at how bad it had got. I honestly just don’t see any way he was ever turning it around.

We sacked him before the cup final and ran Celtic fairly close, taking the lead. Theres not a hope in hell Ross was getting the team to perform like that given the ever worsening performances we were being subjected to imo. If we were just on a run of bad results then he probably would have deserved more time. It was the manner of everything that was going on that suggested he’d completely lost it/lost the dressing room. At that point there’s not really any recovering it.

I don’t disagree about the subsequent appointments, I just don’t think making an arse of them means sacking him was wrong. It just means their appointments were wrong.

Yep, totally agree with this.

[LaMotta]

Whilst I get your logic, I honestly think things were clearly way too far gone for him to improve things. Who knows what it was, but imo it was clear as day that he wasn’t turning it round. That run was significantly more of a mess than the one we’re currently on for example. I think people forget (or to be fair, may just not agree with me :greengrin) how bad it was. Week after week it somehow got worse culminating in what almost looked like deliberate acts to get rid of the manager from some players. It was that bad you almost had to laugh at how bad it had got. I honestly just don’t see any way he was ever turning it around.

We sacked him before the cup final and ran Celtic fairly close, taking the lead. Theres not a hope in hell Ross was getting the team to perform like that given the ever worsening performances we were being subjected to imo. If we were just on a run of bad results then he probably would have deserved more time. It was the manner of everything that was going on that suggested he’d completely lost it/lost the dressing room. At that point there’s not really any recovering it.

I don’t disagree about the subsequent appointments, I just don’t think making an arse of them means sacking him was wrong. It just means their appointments were wrong.


Fair do's mate and I totally accept opinions differ on this. If I can just pick up on the 3 points in bold though.:greengrin

1) I would dispute the run was worse then. Ross had 2 wins and 1 draw in 10 matches. Gray has had 1 win, 3 draws in 10 matches. So they are broadly similar I would say. Ross had to play Rangers 3 times and Celtic once during that run. Gray has had Celtic twice but no Rangers. And Ross had us off to a flyer in the league before the bad run, so it was mitigated to an extent where we were in 7th place, whereas now we are in 12th.

2) You may be right, but to counter that Ross did get a magnificent performance out of us at Hampden during the middle of that poor run.....

3) The argument that we just made the wrong appointments makes sense to a degree - however again to counter that who were the alternatives? For me McInnes was the obvious choice straight after Ross, but many people wouldn't have stood for that. At each appointment I remember being totally underwhelmed with most of the suggestions. In fact Jack Ross was the last appointment where I really felt good about it.

[Since452]

He wasn't just sacked for that game. We'd lost 7 out of 9 games and been awful in pretty much all of them

There were extreme mitigating circumstances though. We could barely field a team at times.

[MWHIBBIES]

You could write a thesis on that window after getting 3rd. I actually thought at the time we'd done okay to hold onto our team but it became so obvious that we were absolutely screwed without basically any 2 players.

Hanlon missed European games so we had to play McGregor who got sent off. We signed Nathan Wood to address this.

Doidge started the season with 2 in 2 league games, got crocked and we really missed him. The utterly woeful James Scott did nothing to address this.

Lost Marciano. A truly excellent goalie for our level.

Players who had been good got a bit complacent, or we got figured out a bit. So so disappointing as it was a huge chance to kick on.

[Paulie Walnuts]

There were extreme mitigating circumstances though. We could barely field a team at times.

What games were they? Having looked back through the teams and subs available during that run I can’t see any games where I’d say it looked like we were struggling for a team? It looked a fairly settled line up with reasonable benches in pretty much every game?

[Not In The Know]

Ross's stats, despite his poor run still hold up against any Hibs manager. The problem wasn't Ross. It was, and still is our owners who think they know if all. People talk about the St Johnsone game. They also knocked out "invincible" Rangers at Ibrox and won the cup double. I'm still sad how it ended but I bet Jack Ross looks at us now and isn't bothered in the slightest.



Deciding to throw money at the Dev team instead of buying some proper defenders did Ross in.

That was the start of the behind the scenes carryon from IG...

[Paulie Walnuts]

Fair do's mate and I totally accept opinions differ on this. If I can just pick up on the 3 points in bold though.:greengrin

1) I would dispute the run was worse then. Ross had 2 wins and 1 draw in 10 matches. Gray has had 1 win, 3 draws in 10 matches. So they are broadly similar I would say. Ross had to play Rangers 3 times and Celtic once during that run. Gray has had Celtic twice but no Rangers. And Ross had us off to a flyer in the league before the bad run, so it was mitigated to an extent where we were in 7th place, whereas now we are in 12th.

2) You may be right, but to counter that Ross did get a magnificent performance out of us at Hampden during the middle of that poor run.....

3) The argument that we just made the wrong appointments makes sense to a degree - however again to counter that who were the alternatives? For me McInnes was the obvious choice straight after Ross, but many people wouldn't have stood for that. At each appointment I remember being totally underwhelmed with most of the suggestions. In fact Jack Ross was the last appointment where I really felt good about it.

Results wise they were similar, I reckon Ross’ run was more shambolic performance wise though.

No arguments on the Hampden performance :agree:

I would be lying if I said could remember the alternatives at the time other than DMc.

I totally get why people feel Ross should have been given more time. I don’t agree with it though, imo it was never going to get better. Whilst he can of course claim he may have had credit in the bank, I’d genuinely argue his bad run was our worst bad run of the last 5 years or so. It was truly awful and became a bit of a farce.

How much of that was his fault is up for debate, regardless of whether it was his fault or not though I don’t think he was going to improve things.

[He's here!]

Fair do's mate and I totally accept opinions differ on this. If I can just pick up on the 3 points in bold though.:greengrin

1) I would dispute the run was worse then. Ross had 2 wins and 1 draw in 10 matches. Gray has had 1 win, 3 draws in 10 matches. So they are broadly similar I would say. Ross had to play Rangers 3 times and Celtic once during that run. Gray has had Celtic twice but no Rangers. And Ross had us off to a flyer in the league before the bad run, so it was mitigated to an extent where we were in 7th place, whereas now we are in 12th.

2) You may be right, but to counter that Ross did get a magnificent performance out of us at Hampden during the middle of that poor run.....

3) The argument that we just made the wrong appointments makes sense to a degree - however again to counter that who were the alternatives? For me McInnes was the obvious choice straight after Ross, but many people wouldn't have stood for that. At each appointment I remember being totally underwhelmed with most of the suggestions. In fact Jack Ross was the last appointment where I really felt good about it.

Ross was a really sound appointment and, like you, he's the last one I felt good about.

The bad run, his first since becoming manager, was also impacted by a Covid outbreak which saw a couple of games postponed IIRC. That didn't help momentum but it was madness to sack him. Just a couple of weeks before the Livi defeat he HAD actually arrested the bad run with a good win at Perth.

[Smartie]

Results wise they were similar, I reckon Ross’ run was more shambolic performance wise though.

No arguments on the Hampden performance :agree:

I would be lying if I said could remember the alternatives at the time other than DMc.

I totally get why people feel Ross should have been given more time. I don’t agree with it though, imo it was never going to get better. Whilst he can of course claim he may have had credit in the bank, I’d genuinely argue his bad run was our worst bad run of the last 5 years or so. It was truly awful and became a bit of a farce.

How much of that was his fault is up for debate, regardless of whether it was his fault or not though I don’t think he was going to improve things.

See these bad runs though… they always, inevitably end up being blamed on the manager, which in some cases may be fair enough.

I accept that without a transfer window it can be hard to see what a manager might be able to do differently with a squad of players to turn it around, so if your point was that Ross wasn’t going to turn it around that side of January and that simply wasn’t good enough, then fair enough.

But given what he’d done for us before do you not think he deserved the January to try to fix our problems?

In reality he’d have probably ended up having to contend with all that Maloney had to suffer - losing Boyle, signing that American owl-loving dude and suffering Ian Gordon properly starting to make his mark on the club and deservedly (!!!) being given his jotters shortly after.

[Paulie Walnuts]

See these bad runs though… they always, inevitably end up being blamed on the manager, which in some cases may be fair enough.

I accept that without a transfer window it can be hard to see what a manager might be able to do differently with a squad of players to turn it around, so if your point was that Ross wasn’t going to turn it around that side of January and that simply wasn’t good enough, then fair enough.

But given what he’d done for us before do you not think he deserved the January to try to fix our problems?

In reality he’d have probably ended up having to contend with all that Maloney had to suffer - losing Boyle, signing that American owl-loving dude and suffering Ian Gordon properly starting to make his mark on the club and deservedly (!!!) being given his jotters shortly after.

Fair points :agree:

[Winston Ingram]

I agree things were bad at that point, understand where you are all coming from.

But for me I dont see why you dont allow someone who has delivered better than the majority of Hibs managers over a 50 year period the chance to improve things again?

He was 2 weeks away from a cup final? He has to be given the chance to win that IMO and he deserved a properly backed Jan transfer window as well. He was well respected and liked by the players as well.

Rather than give someone who has proven they can relatively succeed (or get close to real success) a chance to get back to similar or better positions with the club, we instead chose strategy of bringing in unproven novices to the Scottish game (Maloney, Monty) who looked wholly unconvincing infront of the camera, and so I've no idea how they impressed in interviews.

Why are the positives so easily dismissed by people after a bad run? We still see it with the way Lennon's tenure is looked back on.

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.

[J-C]

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.

:agree:

[Smartie]

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.

Is “Callum Davidson having your number” in itself a sacking offence though?

St Johnstone are just one bogey team we seem to have had over the years, I’m thinking of us having issues with Airdrie, highland teams and, er, Hearts (amongst others) over the years.

[blackpoolhibs]

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.

So we failed to win both cups, and he never learnt during a strange season. We certainly didnt give him a chance to learn did we, with the Gordons getting their grubby hands on running the show.

I'd kill for a few more strange seasons under Ross with him being backed properly, not hindered.

[J-C]

Is “Callum Davidson having your number” in itself a sacking offence though?

I think he fell out with Ron and due to his poor run was sacked, Ron said afterwards he was wrong to do it, must've got personal, I think Ross also fell out with Mathie, so things not right.

[Winston Ingram]

So we failed to win both cups, and he never learnt during a strange season. We certainly didnt give him a chance to learn did we, with the Gordons getting their grubby hands on running the show.

I'd kill for a few more strange seasons under Ross with him being backed properly, not hindered.

He had 3 times to learn v St Johnstone and changed nothing. Let’s not forget that that followed the previous years semi v Championship side Hearts.

[Since90+2]

Is “Callum Davidson having your number” in itself a sacking offence though?

St Johnstone are just one bogey team we seem to have had over the years, I’m thinking of us having issues with Airdrie, highland teams and, er, Hearts (amongst others) over the years.

St Johnstone were clearly an incredible cup team that year. A non old firm team cannot fluke their way to winning both cups in the same season, hence why it's never been done in the modern era. Iirc they also beat Rangers at Ibrox on their way to winning one of the cups.

It's arguably one of the greatest domestic achievements in Scottish football history.

[Winston Ingram]

Is “Callum Davidson having your number” in itself a sacking offence though?

St Johnstone are just one bogey team we seem to have had over the years, I’m thinking of us having issues with Airdrie, highland teams and, er, Hearts (amongst others) over the years.

No. It’s a contributory factor to add to the blowing of the semi v Hearts and losing 7 games out of 9 with some absolutely pathetic performances.

[O'Rourke3]

Is “Callum Davidson having your number” in itself a sacking offence though?

St Johnstone are just one bogey team we seem to have had over the years, I’m thinking of us having issues with Airdrie, highland teams and, er, Hearts (amongst others) over the years.Davidson was not tactical genius.He had a back 5 and a midfield 3 sitting in front of them. This is how they played versus Livvy in the League Cup final with Livvy using the same tactics till they went behind. Davidson had nobody's number. As became clear a few games in to the next season when he was emptied.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think he fell out with Ron and due to his poor run was sacked, Ron said afterwards he was wrong to do it, must've got personal, I think Ross also fell out with Mathie, so things not right.

Ron was wrong a hell of a lot of times. I wouldn’t necessarily trust him to not be wrong about being wrong either.

[Winston Ingram]

Davidson was not tactical genius.He had a back 5 and a midfield 3 sitting in front of them. This is how they played versus Livvy in the League Cup final with Livvy using the same tactics till they went behind. Davidson had nobody's number. As became clear a few games in to the next season when he was emptied.

Sent from my SM-A556B using Tapatalk

He had Jack Ross’s without shadow of a doubt, and Davidson wasn’t emptied a few games into the next season, he was sacked 2 years later

[LaMotta]

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.

One third place finish is not an easy thing to do, crowds or not - as I mentioned earlier only the fourth manager in 50 years to do so. It was a strange season I'd agree.

I am still raging about the cup final v St Johnstone though so no arguments there - he had to do something different but didn't. The way Darren McGregor had been playing in the run up (several MOTM performances) he had to play him too IMO, but he benched him. It was genuinely one of the most frustrating games I've ever watched, you just knew as soon as they scored that was it.:boo hoo:

[MWHIBBIES]

He had Jack Ross’s without shadow of a doubt, and Davidson wasn’t emptied a few games into the next season, he was sacked 2 years later

Didn't Ross win twice against Davidson the following season. So he did figure them out.

[He's here!]

Didn't Ross win twice against Davidson the following season. So he did figure them out.

He beat them 3 times in the league, drew once and lost 2. Lennon never managed to beat them at all if I recall rightly.

It was those cup games which were hard to take, but at least we were regularly reaching semis and finals. We're miles away from where we were under Ross these days.

Ross had a few sticky results prior to the run that got him sacked but always got back to winning ways. If it hadn't been for the Gordons starting to make their presence felt I think he'd have sorted things out.

[Winston Ingram]

Didn't Ross win twice against Davidson the following season. So he did figure them out.

He figured them out when they sold their 3 best players Kerr, Rooney and McCann

[MWHIBBIES]

He figured them out when they sold their 3 best players Kerr, Rooney and McCann

Rooney left 2 years after the other 2. But yes, they were weaker.

[blackpoolhibs]

He had 3 times to learn v St Johnstone and changed nothing. Let’s not forget that that followed the previous years semi v Championship side Hearts.
Shock horror, Hibs lose some games while winning more than they lost?

I'm glad we got rid of that guy and brought someone in to rectify that.

[BILLYHIBS]

He had one 3rd place finish and it was a very strange season with no crowds and no derbies.

One of the things people often forget, which is think was a major contributory factor to the boards loss of confidence in him was the way Calum Davidson and St Johnstone ripped the absolute pish out of him in both cups and the league.

We were in the last 4 of both major cup competitions with no OF, Hearts or Aberdeen and got pumped in both. Going into the Scottish Cup Final everybody knew Davidson had his number, Davidson knew how we’d set up and he carried on predicted and the inevitable happened and they beat us for the 4th time that season.
:top marks

[MWHIBBIES]

The revisionism over the league cup semi is funny. Davidson didn't rip any pish. Hibs played them utterly off the park first half. Missed multiple excellent chances and then totally lost their guy at a free kick. Was that Davidson's tactics aye? Get dominated because Jamie Murphy would miss on the goal line? Aye right.

2nd half they just sat in and defended with 10 guys, getting chances from set pieces and counters.

Was very little wrong with Ross tactics that day. Doidge was missing too, who would've been key both attacking and defending against their big buddies.

The luck st Johnstone had in those runs, coupled with goals at excellent times, opposition missing sitters, key players injured for opposition etc, will never be seen again.

Think it was Blackpool Hibs who summed it up nicely. Thank god we sacked him so we don't have to worry about losing semis and finals anymore.

[jakeshibs]

So we failed to win both cups, and he never learnt during a strange season. We certainly didnt give him a chance to learn did we, with the Gordons getting their grubby hands on running the show.

I'd kill for a few more strange seasons under Ross with him being backed properly, not hindered.


Why the comment about the Gordons ??? They responded to the fan base who wanted rid of Ross, we as supporters must take responsibility for our actions, transferring the blame all the time is weak.

[The Modfather]

The revisionism over the league cup semi is funny. Davidson didn't rip any pish. Hibs played them utterly off the park first half. Missed multiple excellent chances and then totally lost their guy at a free kick. Was that Davidson's tactics aye? Get dominated because Jamie Murphy would miss on the goal line? Aye right.

2nd half they just sat in and defended with 10 guys, getting chances from set pieces and counters.

Was very little wrong with Ross tactics that day. Doidge was missing too, who would've been key both attacking and defending against their big buddies.

The luck st Johnstone had in those runs, coupled with goals at excellent times, opposition missing sitters, key players injured for opposition etc, will never be seen again.

Think it was Blackpool Hibs who summed it up nicely. Thank god we sacked him so we don't have to worry about losing semis and finals anymore.

If you’re talking about St Johnstones cup luck then it’s also fair to talk about Jack Ross’ luck with cup draws. A bit like England under Southgate. Credit where it’s due but the draws couldn’t have been hand picked any kinder. Credit for being consistent in winning the cup games we should have won though as still not many do that.

Lee Johnson & Gray, for examples, faced Hearts & Celtc early in the cups. Something Ross never had to contend with. Before the semi finals I think Dundee Utd away was the hardest draw Ross had to face in his time here.

[blackpoolhibs]

Why the comment about the Gordons ??? They responded to the fan base who wanted rid of Ross, we as supporters must take responsibility for our actions, transferring the blame all the time is weak.

The Gordons made sure no manager would succeed at Hibs, Ron actually put his son in charge of recruitment, let that sink in, head of recruitment.

Under the previous regime we were on the up, as soon as these clowns came in it changed, and as we've seen with every other manager since it's been a downward spiral.

[Alfred E Newman]

Why the comment about the Gordons ??? They responded to the fan base who wanted rid of Ross, we as supporters must take responsibility for our actions, transferring the blame all the time is weak.

A vocal section of the fan base.

[BILLYHIBS]

The revisionism over the league cup semi is funny. Davidson didn't rip any pish. Hibs played them utterly off the park first half. Missed multiple excellent chances and then totally lost their guy at a free kick. Was that Davidson's tactics aye? Get dominated because Jamie Murphy would miss on the goal line? Aye right.

2nd half they just sat in and defended with 10 guys, getting chances from set pieces and counters.

Was very little wrong with Ross tactics that day. Doidge was missing too, who would've been key both attacking and defending against their big buddies.

The luck st Johnstone had in those runs, coupled with goals at excellent times, opposition missing sitters, key players injured for opposition etc, will never be seen again.

Think it was Blackpool Hibs who summed it up nicely. Thank god we sacked him so we don't have to worry about losing semis and finals anymore.

The League Cup semi final versus St Johnstone we were easily well scudded three f#ck all by a side on a fraction of our budget Doidgerinho came off the bench to play the last 40 minutes

So Davidson did rip the pish

Ross was a serial loser and we will never have a better chance to win a Scottish Cup Final as Ross employed the same tactics that had seen three previous defeats against St Johnstone that season

The Gordon’s bowed to fan pressure and obviously felt they could not trust Ross with a League Cup Final looking back looked harsh but a decent performance from SDG’s Hibs that just fell short on the day ( Porto should have had a late pen with Celtic praying for the final whistle) to a better side with players we can only dream about

[JimBHibees]

The revisionism over the league cup semi is funny. Davidson didn't rip any pish. Hibs played them utterly off the park first half. Missed multiple excellent chances and then totally lost their guy at a free kick. Was that Davidson's tactics aye? Get dominated because Jamie Murphy would miss on the goal line? Aye right.

2nd half they just sat in and defended with 10 guys, getting chances from set pieces and counters.

Was very little wrong with Ross tactics that day. Doidge was missing too, who would've been key both attacking and defending against their big buddies.

The luck st Johnstone had in those runs, coupled with goals at excellent times, opposition missing sitters, key players injured for opposition etc, will never be seen again.

Think it was Blackpool Hibs who summed it up nicely. Thank god we sacked him so we don't have to worry about losing semis and finals anymore.

Think the league cup semi Doidge came on. Ross seemed to panic a bit and made numerous changes when we went behind. We buckled big time when went behind Murphy’s double chance still gives me nightmares trying to chip the goalie from 6 yards 😄

[JimBHibees]

A vocal section of the fan base.

A very small minority of 15 years olds

[Since452]

The League Cup semi final versus St Johnstone we were easily well scudded three f#ck all by a side on a fraction of our budget Doidgerinho came off the bench to play the last 40 minutes

Ross was a serial loser and we will never have a better chance to win a Scottish Cup Final as Ross employed the same tactics that had seen three previous defeats against St Johnstone that season

The Gordon’s bowed to fan pressure and obviously felt they could not trust Ross with a League Cup Final looking back looked harsh but a decent performance from SDG’s Hibs that just fell short on the day to a better side with players we can only dream about

Which is strange as they trusted Ross to pump Rangers in the semi final at Hampden. One of my favourite ever games. Our end was bouncing that night. We are so detached from that now it almost seems like a different club. I'm my opinion Ross should have got the final and letting Gray take it was another poor decision.

[BILLYHIBS]

Which is strange as they trusted Ross to pump Rangers in the semi final at Hampden. One of my favourite ever games. Our end was bouncing that night. We are so detached from that now it almost seems like a different club. I'm my opinion Ross should have got the final and letting Gray take it was another poor decision.

:agree:

[MWHIBBIES]

The League Cup semi final versus St Johnstone we were easily well scudded three f#ck all by a side on a fraction of our budget Doidgerinho came off the bench to play the last 40 minutes

So Davidson did rip the pish

Ross was a serial loser and we will never have a better chance to win a Scottish Cup Final as Ross employed the same tactics that had seen three previous defeats against St Johnstone that season

The Gordon’s bowed to fan pressure and obviously felt they could not trust Ross with a League Cup Final looking back looked harsh but a decent performance from SDG’s Hibs that just fell short on the day to a better side with players we can only dream about

Are you able to judge a football match on more than a full time score?

[BILLYHIBS]

Are you able to judge a football match on more than a full time score?

Probably seen Hibs more times than you have had hot dinners but a 0-3 doing is not what you described and Ross’ tactics worked a treat aye ?

[He's here!]

:agree:

I'm unclear why you're agreeing he should have got the final if you think he was a 'serial loser'?

[BILLYHIBS]

I'm unclear why you're agreeing he should have got the final if you think he was a 'serial loser'?

Wanted him gone at the time due to league results and performances but looking back probably a bit harsh taking into account 3-1 versus The Rangers getting us there

I think Ron Gordon even owned up to that in hindsight

[LaMotta]

Why the comment about the Gordons ??? They responded to the fan base who wanted rid of Ross, we as supporters must take responsibility for our actions, transferring the blame all the time is weak.

If owners responded every time a small section of the fanbase demanded a manager be sacked, then we would be firing and rehiring constantly.

Its their job to ignore fan hysteria and do whats best for the club.

[MWHIBBIES]

Probably seen Hibs more times than you have had hot dinners but a 0-3 doing is not what you described and Ross’ tactics worked a treat aye ?

Probably not, but anyway.

At 0-0 we were well on top, winning it back, boxing them in, creating chances. Ross approached the game very well, his first half tactics were spot on.

[Hibernian Verse]

Probably seen Hibs more times than you have had hot dinners but a 0-3 doing is not what you described and Ross’ tactics worked a treat aye ?

Uber fan alert!

[Winston Ingram]

The revisionism over the league cup semi is funny. Davidson didn't rip any pish. Hibs played them utterly off the park first half. Missed multiple excellent chances and then totally lost their guy at a free kick. Was that Davidson's tactics aye? Get dominated because Jamie Murphy would miss on the goal line? Aye right.

2nd half they just sat in and defended with 10 guys, getting chances from set pieces and counters.

Was very little wrong with Ross tactics that day. Doidge was missing too, who would've been key both attacking and defending against their big buddies.

The luck st Johnstone had in those runs, coupled with goals at excellent times, opposition missing sitters, key players injured for opposition etc, will never be seen again.

Think it was Blackpool Hibs who summed it up nicely. Thank god we sacked him so we don't have to worry about losing semis and finals anymore.

That's not revisionism at all. From the moment Kerr put them ahead in that semi final they and sat in. They continued that in the following 3 games and we created next to nothing.

They were lucky to still be in it after the first 35 mins of the semi, but there was no luck after that. Going into that Final, Davidson knew we didn't have enough to break them down.

[BILLYHIBS]

Probably not, but anyway.

At 0-0 we were well on top, winning it back, boxing them in, creating chances. Ross approached the game very well, his first half tactics were spot on.

I take your point but Davidson got inside his head as usual frustrating him exploiting the spaces left at the back as Ross pressed the panic button HIS tactics were spot on

Goals win games

Apologies but at first I thought you were talking about the Scottish Cup Final but in reality you could have been describing any game against St Johnstone that season as they had our number

Best regards

[BILLYHIBS]

Uber fan alert!

😂

[Bushwoof]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

[He's here!]

If owners responded every time a small section of the fanbase demanded a manager be sacked, then we would be firing and rehiring constantly.

Its their job to ignore fan hysteria and do whats best for the club.

That's exactly what we have been doing since sacking Jack Ross.

[He's here!]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

Perhaps because fans prefer finishing in the top three, reaching at least the semi-finals of every cup we play in and winning more games than we lose in the league? But yep, why would anyone want that back instead of the glorious four years we've enjoyed since sacking Ross?

[MWHIBBIES]

I take your point but Davidson got inside his head as usual frustrating him exploiting the spaces left at the back as Ross pressed the panic button HIS tactics were spot on

Goals win games

Apologies but at first I thought you were talking about the Scottish Cup Final but in reality you could have been describing any game against St Johnstone that season as they had our number

Best regards

Well, apart from the game we beat them.

Don't think he got inside anyone's head. His players beat our players to headers.

Don't think our players get anywhere near enough stick for those matches. Murphy missed sitters, Hanlon, Porteous and doig all got done for headers, Boyle and Nisbet never touched the ball, Jackson Irvine missed a great chance in the final. You lose battles and tight 1v1s, you miss chances, you lose.

Their key players stepped up, like Stokes did in 2016. Ours shrank. Tactical genius Davidson barely won another game after that final. Crap manager.

[Bushwoof]

Perhaps because fans prefer finishing in the top three, reaching at least the semi-finals of every cup we play in and winning more games than we lose in the league? But yep, why would anyone want that back instead of the glorious four years we've enjoyed since sacking Ross?
Do they though. That'll be why ER was half empty during his tenure. We haven't got it right since he was sacked for sure, but we'd be playing in front of about 4000 now if JR was still in charge and the decline in attendance had carried on at the same rate. I've had a ST for more years than I can remember but I doubt I'd still have one. TBH I'm surprised that someone who had the pleasure of watching Mickey Weir in his prime can find anything positive to say about Rossball.

[MWHIBBIES]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

This is just utter nonsense. Every week :faf: behave now.

[MWHIBBIES]

Do they though. That'll be why ER was half empty during his tenure. We haven't got it right since he was sacked for sure, but we'd be playing in front of about 4000 now if JR was still in charge and the decline in attendance had carried on at the same rate. I've had a ST for more years than I can remember but I doubt I'd still have one. TBH I'm surprised that someone who had the pleasure of watching Mickey Weir in his prime can find anything positive to say about Rossball.

4000 :faf: stop.

[Bushwoof]

This is just utter nonsense. Every week :faf: behave now.
I stand by that. Every week. It was abysmal to watch. Even when we won, 1-0 probably, there was nothing to talk about once you'd got past 'oh, we scored a goal'.
At least the Arabs would have been able to sit in the pub all night talking about how they managed to get beat 9-0 or whatever it was under JR.

[Bushwoof]

4000 :faf: stop.
I assume you were there. Remember all the empty seats?
Were you there in the late 70s when 4000 wasn't unusual? It's not like it can't happen.

[easty]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

:crazy:

There are only 4 Hibs managers in history who have a better win % than Ross. Stubbs who never managed in the top league, and Stein, Shaw and Shankley (you have to go back to the 60's and earlier for them).

[He's here!]

I take your point but Davidson got inside his head as usual frustrating him exploiting the spaces left at the back as Ross pressed the panic button HIS tactics were spot on

Goals win games

Apologies but at first I thought you were talking about the Scottish Cup Final but in reality you could have been describing any game against St Johnstone that season as they had our number

Best regards

The first two games that season were a 1-0 win for Hibs at McDiarmid and a 2-2 draw at ER.

I was as gutted as anyone by the cup defeats, but I can't go along with your 'serial loser' claim about Ross. He won many more games than he lost (as he did at St Mirren and Sunderland) and took us to at least the semi-finals of every cup competition, won the Championship with St Mirren and took Sunderland to a Wembley play-off final. You could apply 'serial losers' to the club in general if you look at our over Scottish Cup final record: 10 defeats in a row between our wins in 1902 and 2016, 3 wins out of 15 overall. Even our League Cup final record is 3 wins out of 10.

Bottom line, if you asked most Hibs fans what their expectations are for the club the answer would be targeting the top 3 and regular good cup runs. Ross matched those expectations better than any manager since Mowbray.

The criticism smacks of the anti-McInnes stuff on here. Eight successive top four finishes...but he 'only' won one cup and the football wasn't great.

[BILLYHIBS]

Well, apart from the game we beat them.

Don't think he got inside anyone's head. His players beat our players to headers.

Don't think our players get anywhere near enough stick for those matches. Murphy missed sitters, Hanlon, Porteous and doig all got done for headers, Boyle and Nisbet never touched the ball, Jackson Irvine missed a great chance in the final. You lose battles and tight 1v1s, you miss chances, you lose.

Their key players stepped up, like Stokes did in 2016. Ours shrank. Tactical genius Davidson barely won another game after that final. Crap manager.

All in the past now but my abiding memory is of Nisbet and Boyle lining up prematch in deep conversation obviously unhappy about something tactics whatever who knows but something didn’t seem right

As another poster posted when Macey saved the penalty game on but nothing no response zilch nada no inspiration

What grates with me is it should not be difficult to motivate a Hibs team to get up for a Scottish Cup Final regardless of the opposition

At least try something different ?

Fail to prepare prepare to fail

Jack Ross should have been gone after that Cup Final controversial I know but exactly how I felt at the time and still do

Oh! His football was eye bleedingly bad lost count of the number of times I fell asleep watching Hibs during lockdown

[ekhibee]

4000 :faf: stop.Ross's style of football was awful to watch a lot of the time, but his stats (win %) was actually quite good. There were some similarities with Yogi's tenure at the club, Yogi took us to 4th in the league and a Europa Cup place, then had a horrendous start to the following season and was sacked in October after losing 2-0 to St Johnstone.

[BILLYHIBS]

The first two games that season were a 1-0 win for Hibs at McDiarmid and a 2-2 draw at ER.

I was as gutted as anyone by the cup defeats, but I can't go along with your 'serial loser' claim about Ross. He won many more games than he lost (as he did at St Mirren and Sunderland) and took us to at least the semi-finals of every cup competition, won the Championship with St Mirren and took Sunderland to a Wembley play-off final. You could apply 'serial losers' to the club in general if you look at our over Scottish Cup final record: 10 defeats in a row between our wins in 1902 and 2016, 3 wins out of 15 overall. Even our League Cup final record is 3 wins out of 10.

Bottom line, if you asked most Hibs fans what their expectations are for the club the answer would be targeting the top 3 and regular good cup runs. Ross matched those expectations better than any manager since Mowbray.

The criticism smacks of the anti-McInnes stuff on here. Eight successive top four finishes...but he 'only' won one cup and the football wasn't great.

See my post above

Was thinking the four immediate losses to Saintees on the bounce that season

Also a semi loss to Championship Hearts

All I am seeing is runner up on his cv apart from league titles at St Mirren and Clyde In fairness his St Mirren side were an exciting side to watch

Ironic that in his last 15 league games for us he had four wins one win against Livingston and Dundee United and two against his arch nemesis St Johnstone

No surprise I cannot stand MacInnes then 😀

[MWHIBBIES]

I stand by that. Every week. It was abysmal to watch. Even when we won, 1-0 probably, there was nothing to talk about once you'd got past 'oh, we scored a goal'.
At least the Arabs would have been able to sit in the pub all night talking about how they managed to get beat 9-0 or whatever it was under JR.
You can stand by it all you want. It's falseWe played well, and scored plenty goals in many games under Ross.
22 times we scored at least 2 goals that season.
Scored at least 3 away from home 6 different times.


I assume you were here. Remember all the empty seats?

You think empty seats after a global pandemic were because of jack Ross? Are you for real?

[J-C]

Ross played counter attack football which struggled against teams that sit in like St Johnstone and was boring to watch when they had an open game, set up to defend and hit on the break. I see a lot of similarities to how Gray is setting up his teams

[Unseen work]

Ross played counter attack football which struggled against teams that sit in like St Johnstone and was boring to watch when they had an open game, set up to defend and hit on the break. I see a lot of similarities to how Gray is setting up his teams

The difference for me is Ross still had patterns of play and a way to break teams down.

The back 4 of Hanlon, Doig, Porteous and McGinn were all able to play out from the back. Doig had the pace, power and ability to drive us up field.

Ross had Gogic who was brilliant for us in his first season, breaking everything up and covering gaps that’s McGinn and Doig would leave.

He had Nisbet and Doidge who worked very well together. Whether it be Nisbet dropping deep, it getting played into his feet by McGinn and he done the first time pass in behind to Boyle. Or when Hanlon would go long to Doidge and his flick on/him and the defending missing it got Boyle in.

SDG imo seems he’s stuck between what he’s trying to do.

We pass it amongst our back 4 and centre mid without gaining any yards, it then goes to Ekpiteta who steps forward a bit before clipping a pretty aimless ball forward or gives it to Miller. Miller never seems to have any instruction what to do and it seems like he does as he pleases, which tends to be cut inside, do a cruyff then, try nut meg someone or win a foul.

I’m not even against the long balls forward, but if we do we need Boyle, hoilett, Youan etc to be next to Myk/Gayle and to anticipate second balls. The balls Myk and Gayle get seem to be far too straight and with no support.

A lot of the things we do under SDG imo seem to be through luck/a moment of magic from Hoilet and not design.

Ross whilst not all about possession or good football, still got us playing in a way to get our attackers on the ball in threatening positions.

Under Ross I was always fairly confident we’d see out a result. I remember one of the first Covid games against Killie we won 2-1 iirc. The second half was all killie with Burke causing Doig alot of problems, but the defensive unit was absolutely sound and they just couldn’t break us down.

[Trinity Hibee]

The difference for me is Ross still had patterns of play and a way to break teams down.

The back 4 of Hanlon, Doig, Porteous and McGinn were all able to play out from the back. Doig had the pace, power and ability to drive us up field.

Ross had Gogic who was brilliant for us in his first season, breaking everything up and covering gaps that’s McGinn and Doig would leave.

He had Nisbet and Doidge who worked very well together. Whether it be Nisbet dropping deep, it getting played into his feet by McGinn and he done the first time pass in behind to Boyle. Or when Hanlon would go long to Doidge and his flick on/him and the defending missing it got Boyle in.

SDG imo seems he’s stuck between what he’s trying to do.

We pass it amongst our back 4 and centre mid without gaining any yards, it then goes to Ekpiteta who steps forward a bit before clipping a pretty aimless ball forward or gives it to Miller. Miller never seems to have any instruction what to do and it seems like he does as he pleases, which tends to be cut inside, do a cruyff then, try nut meg someone or win a foul.

I’m not even against the long balls forward, but if we do we need Boyle, hoilett, Youan etc to be next to Myk/Gayle and to anticipate second balls. The balls Myk and Gayle get seem to be far too straight and with no support.

A lot of the things we do under SDG imo seem to be through luck/a moment of magic from Hoilet and not design.

Ross whilst not all about possession or good football, still got us playing in a way to get our attackers on the ball in threatening positions.

Under Ross I was always fairly confident we’d see out a result. I remember one of the first Covid games against Killie we won 2-1 iirc. The second half was all killie with Burke causing Doig alot of problems, but the defensive unit was absolutely sound and they just couldn’t break us down.

I agree with virtually all of this.

[BILLYHIBS]

The difference for me is Ross still had patterns of play and a way to break teams down.

The back 4 of Hanlon, Doig, Porteous and McGinn were all able to play out from the back. Doig had the pace, power and ability to drive us up field.

Ross had Gogic who was brilliant for us in his first season, breaking everything up and covering gaps that’s McGinn and Doig would leave.

He had Nisbet and Doidge who worked very well together. Whether it be Nisbet dropping deep, it getting played into his feet by McGinn and he done the first time pass in behind to Boyle. Or when Hanlon would go long to Doidge and his flick on/him and the defending missing it got Boyle in.

SDG imo seems he’s stuck between what he’s trying to do.

We pass it amongst our back 4 and centre mid without gaining any yards, it then goes to Ekpiteta who steps forward a bit before clipping a pretty aimless ball forward or gives it to Miller. Miller never seems to have any instruction what to do and it seems like he does as he pleases, which tends to be cut inside, do a cruyff then, try nut meg someone or win a foul.

I’m not even against the long balls forward, but if we do we need Boyle, hoilett, Youan etc to be next to Myk/Gayle and to anticipate second balls. The balls Myk and Gayle get seem to be far too straight and with no support.

A lot of the things we do under SDG imo seem to be through luck/a moment of magic from Hoilet and not design.

Ross whilst not all about possession or good football, still got us playing in a way to get our attackers on the ball in threatening positions.

Under Ross I was always fairly confident we’d see out a result. I remember one of the first Covid games against Killie we won 2-1 iirc. The second half was all killie with Burke causing Doig alot of problems, but the defensive unit was absolutely sound and they just couldn’t break us down.

Good post

[hibsbollah]

Ross's style of football was awful to watch a lot of the time, but his stats (win %) was actually quite good.

In a nutshell. There’s very little else to say about Ross.

[Hiber-nation]

If the players aren't giving everything for the manager then he's in big trouble. That's what happened in that game at Livi, as mentioned before Bartley said it and Alex Neil was actually raging about it on the radio after, he said it was so obvious.

He probably deserved another transfer window but the writing was on the wall. I know folk who haven't been back to see Hibs since things started to go wrong around the time of the Dundee Utd home game when we got gubbed 3-0. Crowds were desperately low and the football was dreadful.

Got the same sort of feeling about the style SDG has adopted in the last 2 games, hope I'm wrong.

[Donegal Hibby]

I wasn’t on here around the Jack Ross era so found it interesting to see what the reaction was to him around that time so I had a look back on the Net to see …

at the time of his sacking there was a poll done and 46.34 % thought it was the right decision to sack him …Not a million miles away from being half ! .

On one side there was talk of his failure to beat St Johnstone in the big games to only being able to beat them , bad run of results, his style of football that was called boring etc ..

To recruitment let him down , injuries .. should have been given more time as he got us 3rd , cup final and semi finals etc ….

Not having a go at anyone though do think it’s a pity 3 years on and fans seem be still divided ☹️

[richard_pitts]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

LTYF.

If the worst manager we ever had got us third place (person before that was Mowbray), we'd be a lot better than we are now. Butcher was the worst manager ever imo. Took a mid-table side and relegated it.

[He's here!]

Ross's style of football was awful to watch a lot of the time, but his stats (win %) was actually quite good. There were some similarities with Yogi's tenure at the club, Yogi took us to 4th in the league and a Europa Cup place, then had a horrendous start to the following season and was sacked in October after losing 2-0 to St Johnstone.

We collapsed over the line into 4th place that season after a truly dreadful run of results under Yogi, including a 5-1 defeat at St Johnstone and a 4-1 defeat at Hamilton. We also ended up lucky to hang on to a 6-6 draw at Motherwell! That simply continued into the next season. Ross's side were consistency personified when we finished 3rd and we also had a cracking start to the following season. No coincidence, I feel in in hindsight, that his first significantly bad run coincided with Ron taking more of a hands-on role at the club.

[Hibees1973]

At the end of the 3-1 win against Rangers at Hampden, Porteous said the team had let Ross down in big games. There is no doubt in this.

For anyone to prefer what we have had in the last 2-3 years, to what Ross did is ludicrous.

Just seems to me some folk on here are unwilling to revise their opinions and accept what we have been served up by Ross's successors is much worse than what he did. The stats are there for all to see.

There is no doubt that Ross was not backed by The Gordons in the transfer window prior to him being sacked. From what we now know, they were preparing the ground for sacking him at the first opportunity. The Gordons and Kensell had already sacked a number of staff at the club and clearly Ross was on their radar. Hibs are their toy and they wanted to appoint their own people throughout the whole club. Surely everyone must admit The Gordons & Kensell have done an absolutely disgraceful job in appointing football managers since they arrived.

If some on here can't see that our demise started with the sacking of Ross, they are blind and might as well have been part of Ian Gordon's recruitment team.

[Shrekko]

Pretty sure we were 3rd top scorers in the league as well as finishing 3rd in Jack's only full season. These posts about how boring we were under him (in the Covid season with no crowds!) are absolute nonsense. We had 3 forwards who scored about 45 goals between them.

Jack's team wasn't hugely exciting - but which is team is in these days of modern football? I'd definitely swap that feeling of being quite secure when in the lead with the panic stations we now see.

To sack a manager a couple of weeks before a cup final was utterly ridiculous- it kicked off the revolving door culture we have now with fans constantly baying for sackings whenever we hit a rough patch. History has shown us where this leads.

Hibs were no more exciting to watch under Lennon (bar that 3/4 month spell) or any of the other managers appointed since. In fact I'd say that what we had to endure under Monty and Maloney was considerably worse.

[He's here!]

See my post above

Was thinking the four immediate losses to Saintees on the bounce that season

Also a semi loss to Championship Hearts

All I am seeing is runner up on his cv apart from league titles at St Mirren and Clyde In fairness his St Mirren side were an exciting side to watch

Ironic that in his last 15 league games for us he had four wins one win against Livingston and Dundee United and two against his arch nemesis St Johnstone

No surprise I cannot stand MacInnes then 😀

This, again, is used as a stick to beat him with. We missed a penalty to win the game, which Ross can't be blamed for. Yes it was maddening to lose (yet again!) to Hearts at Hampden but them being in the Championship wasn't really a big deal. We'd knocked them out the cup when we were a Championship side just a few years previously. Also, Hearts had started their pre-season training early, with Neilson happy to admit it was with the sole focus on that semi-final. There was next to nothing between the sides but as we all know too well the breaks tend to go Hearts' way in derbies.

Runner-up on his CV is a hell of a lot better than the majority of managers achieve.

[He's here!]

LTYF.

If the worst manager we ever had got us third place (person before that was Mowbray), we'd be a lot better than we are now. Butcher was the worst manager ever imo. Took a mid-table side and relegated it.

Duffy ran Butcher pretty close I reckon.

For anyone to bracket Ross alongside them is mind-boggling. If anything he was one of the best managers we've had if you look at his record in comparison to the rest.

[Trinity Hibee]

At the end of the 3-1 win against Rangers at Hampden, Porteous said the team had let Ross down in big games. There is no doubt in this.

For anyone to prefer what we have had in the last 2-3 years, to what Ross did is ludicrous.

Just seems to me some folk on here are unwilling to revise their opinions and accept what we have been served up by Ross's successors is much worse that what he did. The stats are there for all to see.

There is no doubt that Ross was not backed by The Gordons in the transfer window prior to him being sacked. From what we now know, they were preparing the ground for sacking him at the first opportunity. The Gordons and Kensell had already sacked a number of staff at the club and clearly Ross was on their radar. Hibs are their toy and they wanted to appoint their own people throughout the whole club. Surely everyone must admit The Gordons & Kensell have done an absolutely disgraceful job in appointing football managers since they arrived.

If some on here can't see that our demise started with the sacking of Ross, they are blind and might as well have been part of Ian Gordon's recruitment team.

I agree with most of what you’ve said here but i think what most people are saying RE: Ross’ sacking is that AT THE TIME, the sacking made some sense due to run of results and performances. Now in hindsight, could he have been given more time? Possibly.

He was badly let down in summer 2021, when we just need a couple of additions in key positions and he was failed. 3 years on recruitment is still failing us and in some way, our managers.

Stats and league finishes tell you that everyone who has followed him has done a poorer job.

[Donegal Hibby]

Ross's style of football was awful to watch a lot of the time, but his stats (win %) was actually quite good.

It’s fine when your winning and results are good in fans will overlook the style of football though when the result start to go wrong it’s generally one of the first things fans will use against a manager in his style of football if it isn’t particularly easy on the eye …

It’s the main reason I’ve had a few debates with the Mcinnes fan club on here in I think he’d be a recipe for disaster as that would be almost certainly used against him if he was manager here too .

[Trinity Hibee]

It’s fine when your winning and results are good in fans will overlook the style of football though when the result start to go wrong it’s generally one of the first things fans will use against a manager in his style of football if it isn’t particularly easy on the eye …

It’s the main reason I’ve had a few debates with the Mcinnes fan club on here in I think he’d be a recipe for disaster as that would be almost certainly used against him if he was manager here too .

Thing with mcinnes though is that he has evidenced years of excellent league finishes so I do think he’d be afforded time. The managers we bring in do not have that at all.

Every appointment is a gamble but to me he is one of the safest bets we could get. People say he isn’t interested in the structure anyway so sadly it’s unlikely to ever happen

[ekhibee]

It’s fine when your winning and results are good in fans will overlook the style of football though when the result start to go wrong it’s generally one of the first things fans will use against a manager in his style of football if it isn’t particularly easy on the eye …

It’s the main reason I’ve had a few debates with the Mcinnes fan club on here in I think he’d be a recipe for disaster as that would be almost certainly used against him if he was manager here too .
Yep, totally agree, it'd be used as a stick to beat him with, no doubt.

[BILLYHIBS]

This, again, is used as a stick to beat him with. We missed a penalty to win the game, which Ross can't be blamed for. Yes it was maddening to lose (yet again!) to Hearts at Hampden but them being in the Championship wasn't really a big deal. We'd knocked them out the cup when we were a Championship side just a few years previously. Also, Hearts had started their pre-season training early, with Neilson happy to admit it was with the sole focus on that semi-final. There was next to nothing between the sides but as we all know too well the breaks tend to go Hearts' way in derbies.

Runner-up on his CV is a hell of a lot better than the majority of managers achieve.
:agree:

Remember the bit about Hearts gearing everything towards beating us in the cup

Who knew ?

[Saint Hibee]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

It's obviously hyperbole to describe him as the worst manager we've had, but I agree with pretty much all the rest of this post. I've never been so bored watching Hibs as under Jack Ross, and his press conference after our complete capitulation at home to a truly awful Hearts team was utterly unforgivable.

[Jones28]

The League Cup semi final versus St Johnstone we were easily well scudded three f#ck all by a side on a fraction of our budget Doidgerinho came off the bench to play the last 40 minutes

So Davidson did rip the pish

Ross was a serial loser and we will never have a better chance to win a Scottish Cup Final as Ross employed the same tactics that had seen three previous defeats against St Johnstone that season

The Gordon’s bowed to fan pressure and obviously felt they could not trust Ross with a League Cup Final looking back looked harsh but a decent performance from SDG’s Hibs that just fell short on the day ( Porto should have had a late pen with Celtic praying for the final whistle) to a better side with players we can only dream about


:agree:

A bit contradictory no?

Let Jack Ross, the serial loser, take the cup final? :confused:

[Jones28]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

Yeah, this is all bang on the money.

I hate winning games, finishing third and getting to finals and semi-finals.

[easty]

It’s fine when your winning and results are good in fans will overlook the style of football though when the result start to go wrong it’s generally one of the first things fans will use against a manager in his style of football if it isn’t particularly easy on the eye …

It’s the main reason I’ve had a few debates with the Mcinnes fan club on here in I think he’d be a recipe for disaster as that would be almost certainly used against him if he was manager here too .

Everything is fine when you're winning.

Nobody would care about Ben Kensell and his big mouth and his big salary.

Nobody would care that Block 7 are a pain in the arse.

Nobody would care that we didn't go for Nisbet.


I just want to see Hibs winning games of football :flag: the rest is just background noise.

[BILLYHIBS]

A bit contradictory no?

Let Jack Ross, the serial loser, take the cup final? :confused:
Agreed with the decision at the time based on League results and performances at the time but on reflection as per Ron Gordon might have been a bit harsh

Please read the thread before posting already explained #122

Exhausting :greengrin

[flash]

I wasn't too upset to see Jack Ross leave although i can see both sides of the argument.

The reason his name keeps getting brought back up though, in my opinion, isn't because he was a particularly good manager but more because of the succession of disasters that have followed him.

[Saint Hibee]

I wasn't too upset to see Jack Ross leave although i can see both sides of the argument.

The reason his name keeps getting brought back up though, in my opinion, isn't because he was a particularly good manager but more because of the succession of disasters that have followed him.

This 100%.

[He's here!]

Pretty sure we were 3rd top scorers in the league as well as finishing 3rd in Jack's only full season. These posts about how boring we were under him (in the Covid season with no crowds!) are absolute nonsense. We had 3 forwards who scored about 45 goals between them.

Jack's team wasn't hugely exciting - but which is team is in these days of modern football? I'd definitely swap that feeling of being quite secure when in the lead with the panic stations we now see.

To sack a manager a couple of weeks before a cup final was utterly ridiculous- it kicked off the revolving door culture we have now with fans constantly baying for sackings whenever we hit a rough patch. History has shown us where this leads.

Hibs were no more exciting to watch under Lennon (bar that 3/4 month spell) or any of the other managers appointed since. In fact I'd say that what we had to endure under Monty and Maloney was considerably worse.

Yep, 3rd top scorers by a considerable distance, also lowest goals conceded outwith the top two. Overall a +13 goal difference. Everyone else below third had a negative goal difference.

18 goals for Nisbet, 15 for Boyle and 13 for Doidge.

What a bore eh?

[Joe6-2]

Should have kept him

[J-C]

I think right now most would be happy with McInnes football if it meant winning regularly again, even if it is similar to what Ross gave us but always remember that horrendous run he had us in before going.

[Since452]

:crazy:

There are only 4 Hibs managers in history who have a better win % than Ross. Stubbs who never managed in the top league, and Stein, Shaw and Shankley (you have to go back to the 60's and earlier for them).

This for me says it all. And that was with Ross's poor run (his first).

[Cooshed Kid]

The Hampden catastrophes had me livid with Ross. Of course the players let him down but how did he prepare them and how did St J become our bogey team on his watch? I’m actually quite patient generally but when Ross was sacked I was all for it. He had us playing at a successfully mediocre level for a while then it all turned to merde and he provided more of the same at Tannadice. Now he isn’t even in the same part of the business as he doesn’t have confidence in his own ability as a head coach.

Retrospectively, he assumes almost god-like status but that’s because Maloney was fired too soon and his successors were worse. I was not and am not a fan of the modern style of football which treats the ball like a hot potato which everyone has to get rid of ASAP and Maloneyball was that kind of football. BUT the last game of Maloney’s tenure against Hearts had me wondering what he might achieve if he had a pre-season to get the squad organized. Sadly, we had LJ instead. Maloney did well on his return to Wigan.

Yes, maybe Ross was fired too soon. But my regret is that Maloney was fired too soon also. And Hecky.

[Pagan Hibernia]

The Hampden catastrophes had me livid with Ross. Of course the players let him down but how did he prepare them and how did St J become our bogey team on his watch? I’m actually quite patient generally but when Ross was sacked I was all for it. He had us playing at a successfully mediocre level for a while then it all turned to merde and he provided more of the same at Tannadice. Now he isn’t even in the same part of the business as he doesn’t have confidence in his own ability as a head coach.

Retrospectively, he assumes almost god-like status but that’s because Maloney was fired too soon and his successors were worse. I was not and am not a fan of the modern style of football which treats the ball like a hot potato which everyone has to get rid of ASAP and Maloneyball was that kind of football. BUT the last game of Maloney’s tenure against Hearts had me wondering what he might achieve if he had a pre-season to get the squad organized. Sadly, we had LJ instead. Maloney did well on his return to Wigan.

Yes, maybe Ross was fired too soon. But my regret is that Maloney was fired too soon also. And Hecky.

third place and reaching finals is not mediocre in my book.

If it is, sign me up for more successful mediocrity please.

[Jones28]

Agreed with the decision at the time based on League results and performances at the time but on reflection as per Ron Gordon might have been a bit harsh

Please read the thread before posting already explained #122

Exhausting :greengrin

I read it, why don't you edit your "serial loser" comment if it's so exhausting? :na na:

[LaMotta]

FFS, not this again. Ross has a claim for being the worst manager we've ever had. Rossball was the antithesis, the polar opposite, of everything this club is about. The pitiful capitulation in the cup final against the Saintees was merely symptomatic of Hibs displays under Ross. When we saved that penalty, you thought, right, here we go, let's get a reaction and a lift from that - but, no. Still absolutely nothing. And that's what it was like EVERY WEEK. ST holders weren't bothering to turn up, because there was no point. There was no entertainment, nothing to see, nothing to talk about in the pub afterwards.
You'd find yourself at the match chatting about your holidays or whatever instead of watching the game, because there was nothing happening on the park. ER under Ross turned into a library, and it has never recovered. Regardless of where we finished in the table, Ross was literally killing the club. Why the hell would anyone want that back.

This has got got a claim for being the worst post I've ever seen on this forum.

[Jones28]

The Hampden catastrophes had me livid with Ross. Of course the players let him down but how did he prepare them and how did St J become our bogey team on his watch? I’m actually quite patient generally but when Ross was sacked I was all for it. He had us playing at a successfully mediocre level for a while then it all turned to merde and he provided more of the same at Tannadice. Now he isn’t even in the same part of the business as he doesn’t have confidence in his own ability as a head coach.

Retrospectively, he assumes almost god-like status but that’s because Maloney was fired too soon and his successors were worse. I was not and am not a fan of the modern style of football which treats the ball like a hot potato which everyone has to get rid of ASAP and Maloneyball was that kind of football. BUT the last game of Maloney’s tenure against Hearts had me wondering what he might achieve if he had a pre-season to get the squad organized. Sadly, we had LJ instead. Maloney did well on his return to Wigan.

Yes, maybe Ross was fired too soon. But my regret is that Maloney was fired too soon also. And Hecky.

FFS man nobody is saying that, he's looked on with reverence because he was a good manager for us. Cup disappointments: there hasn't been a Hibs manager in history that hasn't experienced any. Stubbs, Collins, Lennon and Mowbray are the 4 best managers we've had in the last 20 years, all of them have experienced cup disappointments - 2 of them didn't even win a trophy with us.

Lets not pretend that he's getting some special treatment because we've all lost our minds; he was a genuinely above average/good manager for us and was done by dreadful recruitment.

[LaMotta]

At the end of the 3-1 win against Rangers at Hampden, Porteous said the team had let Ross down in big games. There is no doubt in this.

For anyone to prefer what we have had in the last 2-3 years, to what Ross did is ludicrous.

Just seems to me some folk on here are unwilling to revise their opinions and accept what we have been served up by Ross's successors is much worse than what he did. The stats are there for all to see.

There is no doubt that Ross was not backed by The Gordons in the transfer window prior to him being sacked. From what we now know, they were preparing the ground for sacking him at the first opportunity. The Gordons and Kensell had already sacked a number of staff at the club and clearly Ross was on their radar. Hibs are their toy and they wanted to appoint their own people throughout the whole club. Surely everyone must admit The Gordons & Kensell have done an absolutely disgraceful job in appointing football managers since they arrived.

If some on here can't see that our demise started with the sacking of Ross, they are blind and might as well have been part of Ian Gordon's recruitment team.

Good post.

[BILLYHIBS]

I read it, why don't you edit your "serial loser" comment if it's so exhausting? :na na:
Did you read the bit that said I wanted him sacked after the sterile Scottish Cup Final performance if that makes it easier for you ? :greengrin

Do what you always did get what you always got

[The Modfather]

At the end of the 3-1 win against Rangers at Hampden, Porteous said the team had let Ross down in big games. There is no doubt in this.

For anyone to prefer what we have had in the last 2-3 years, to what Ross did is ludicrous.

Just seems to me some folk on here are unwilling to revise their opinions and accept what we have been served up by Ross's successors is much worse than what he did. The stats are there for all to see.

There is no doubt that Ross was not backed by The Gordons in the transfer window prior to him being sacked. From what we now know, they were preparing the ground for sacking him at the first opportunity. The Gordons and Kensell had already sacked a number of staff at the club and clearly Ross was on their radar. Hibs are their toy and they wanted to appoint their own people throughout the whole club. Surely everyone must admit The Gordons & Kensell have done an absolutely disgraceful job in appointing football managers since they arrived.

If some on here can't see that our demise started with the sacking of Ross, they are blind and might as well have been part of Ian Gordon's recruitment team.

I’m not sure sacking Ross in itself is the high watermark of our decline. For example, I can’t see Ross having fared any better than Maloney, Johnson or Montgomery having to try and work with b teams, DOF’s here for a year and the owner getting involved in a downward spiral of recruitment. I don’t really see Ross as any different to the likes of Robbie Neilson, Naismith or what Robson achieved. Success for a period before a decline. It’s not like he was laying any Mcinness-esque foundations for sustained “success”.

I don’t look back on Ross’ time with much fondness, not like I do with Mowbray, an all too short spell under Collins or that season under Lennon.

[Cooshed Kid]

FFS man nobody is saying that, he's looked on with reverence because he was a good manager for us. Cup disappointments: there hasn't been a Hibs manager in history that hasn't experienced any. Stubbs, Collins, Lennon and Mowbray are the 4 best managers we've had in the last 20 years, all of them have experienced cup disappointments - 2 of them didn't even win a trophy with us.

Lets not pretend that he's getting some special treatment because we've all lost our minds; he was a genuinely above average/good manager for us and was done by dreadful recruitment.

Not saying anyone is saying that. These are my observations alone. What I could never forgive Ross was the complete implosions in the Cup games against St J. It wasn't the fact that we lost. It was the gutless manner in which we capitulated. When we were beaten 6-1 by Celtic in ‘72 at least we were in the game until we went 4-1 down. As a commentator said in the St J Cup Final, I forget whom, something along the lines “The Hibs team is still somewhere on the M8.” That was inexcusable lack of match-readiness but damningly accurate.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I’m not sure sacking Ross in itself is the high watermark of our decline. For example, I can’t see Ross having fared any better than Maloney, Johnson or Montgomery having to try and work with b teams, DOF’s here for a year and the owner getting involved in a downward spiral of recruitment. I don’t really see Ross as any different to the likes of Robbie Neilson, Naismith or what Robson achieved. Success for a period before a decline. It’s not like he was laying any Mcinness-esque foundations for sustained “success”.

I don’t look back on Ross’ time with much fondness, not like I do with Mowbray, an all too short spell under Collins or that season under Lennon.

:agree:

Agree with all of that.

Also the idea the Gordon’s were itching to get rid of him to get their own people in? He was appointed by the Gordon’s. He was their person.

[Sioux]

The main theme before JR was punted was the phrase "we didn't win the big games".

Thank F that's gone. But now all we've got is "we don't win any games".

[Jones28]

Not saying anyone is saying that. These are my observations alone. What I could never forgive Ross was the complete implosions in the Cup games against St J. It wasn't the fact that we lost. It was the gutless manner in which we capitulated. When we were beaten 6-1 by Celtic in ‘72 at least we were in the game until we went 4-1 down. As a commentator said in the St J Cup Final, I forget whom, something along the lines “The Hibs team is still somewhere on the M8.” That was inexcusable lack of match-readiness but damningly accurate.

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd argue the same for the Aberdeen semi under Lennon, the Ross County LC final under Stubbs, the Hearts semi under Mowbray was a long time ago but I don't remember us playing particularly well for any part of that game. The semi finals against Dunfermline under Collins too, I was at both games and they were both awful.

It's not an issue unique to Jack Ross' Hibs. It's interesting you need to go back to the 1970's to find an example of a Hibs "glorious failure" type of performance in a cup game.

Maybe the Falkirk semi we lost under Stubbs in 2015, from memory we did everything but score in that match.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd argue the same for the Aberdeen semi under Lennon, the Ross County LC final under Stubbs, the Hearts semi under Mowbray was a long time ago but I don't remember us playing particularly well for any part of that game. The semi finals against Dunfermline under Collins too, I was at both games and they were both awful.

It's not an issue unique to Jack Ross' Hibs. It's interesting you need to go back to the 1970's to find an example of a Hibs "glorious failure" type of performance in a cup game.

Maybe the Falkirk semi we lost under Stubbs in 2015, from memory we did everything but score in that match.

Were we not largely excellent in the Aberdeen semi under Lennon after we went 2-0 down? I could have sworn we battered them, got it back level and got sucker punched.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Were we not largely excellent in the Aberdeen semi under Lennon after we went 2-0 down? I could have sworn we battered them, got it back level and got sucker punched.

That's how I remember it. Two horrific defensive lapses left us chasing a miracle, then when we got back to 2-2 I could only see us winning it.

We would have been battered by celtic in the final anyway tbh

[Jones28]

Were we not largely excellent in the Aberdeen semi under Lennon after we went 2-0 down? I could have sworn we battered them, got it back level and got sucker punched.

We were wobbly as **** for the first half until Holt came on and we looked better until we equalised. Think McGeouch then went off after he scored and it was more 50-50 in the last 20 mins or so.

The first 30 mins was terrible, we were totally outplayed and Aberdeen should have been 3-0 up before Holt got the goal.

[MWHIBBIES]

That's how I remember it. Two horrific defensive lapses left us chasing a miracle, then when we got back to 2-2 I could only see us winning it.

We would have been battered by celtic in the final anyway tbh

Lennon set things up totally wrong. Cummings as a lone striker was awful. Holt changed the game.

We would have given Celtic a great game. No Hibs team with Mcginn got battered by Celtic. He flung Ntcham about like an empty tracksuit the following season.

[Trinity Hibee]

Lennon set things up totally wrong. Cummings as a lone striker was awful. Holt changed the game.

We would have given Celtic a great game. No Hibs team with Mcginn got battered by Celtic. He flung Ntcham about like an empty tracksuit the following season.

He did but realised that and changed it and it altered how the game was going. I’m not convinced we know how to change it or have the players to do it nowadays

[Cooshed Kid]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd argue the same for the Aberdeen semi under Lennon, the Ross County LC final under Stubbs, the Hearts semi under Mowbray was a long time ago but I don't remember us playing particularly well for any part of that game. The semi finals against Dunfermline under Collins too, I was at both games and they were both awful.

It's not an issue unique to Jack Ross' Hibs. It's interesting you need to go back to the 1970's to find an example of a Hibs "glorious failure" type of performance in a cup game.

Maybe the Falkirk semi we lost under Stubbs in 2015, from memory we did everything but score in that match.

I don’t think you and I are in major disagreement. Lennon’s Aberdeen semi was lost because Cummings thought it was a great idea to invite Daz of the less-than-delicate-touch to play football in the first 10 seconds when I’m sure he wasn’t expecting to receive the ball and Holt wasn’t in the original lineup so Aberdeen’s big defenders could bully our smaller attackers. Once Holt came on the balance of power shifted immediately and the team did itself proud. We were easily the better team ….once we were 2 goals down. We had no shortage of fight that day.

I really liked JR as an individual. I don’t argue that he was not a very good manager for us in his time. I do think, however, that when the really big games arrived he generally failed to get the players to perform even to their regular levels let alone lift themselves for the big occasion. The outlier would be the League Cup semi against Rangers where Boyle did a Stokes and ran them ragged. I don’t know about you, but my recollection of the final against Celtic was thinking how did SDG manage to get the team to perform in a Cup Final to a standard JR couldn’t previously manage? Of course, that view may itself have been coloured by the fact that JR had lost three of the five league games we played after that cup semi so I was expecting another Hampden implosion.

I confess, I’m now wondering where has it all gone wrong for SDG when he managed a Cup Final so well as caretaker?

Ultimately, what any of us think of JR‘s tenure doesn’t really matter. He may have been treated fairly or unfairly, but it’s all over. Things have moved on at quite a pace and we now have SDG and we just have to hope that the gods smile upon him.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Lennon set things up totally wrong. Cummings as a lone striker was awful. Holt changed the game.

We would have given Celtic a great game. No Hibs team with Mcginn got battered by Celtic. He flung Ntcham about like an empty tracksuit the following season.

If we had I'd like to think Lennon would have got some credit too. Knowing this place though probably not.

[He's here!]

:agree:

Agree with all of that.

Also the idea the Gordon’s were itching to get rid of him to get their own people in? He was appointed by the Gordon’s. He was their person.

He was appointed after Ron Gordon had acquired the majority shareholding, but Ross's recruitment was very much led by Mathie and Dempster. Ron himself confirmed that at the time.

Ron subsequently made the mistake of thinking his 'own people' could have done a better job, sacked Ross and four years of failed appointments followed.

[Bushwoof]

LTYF.

If the worst manager we ever had got us third place (person before that was Mowbray), we'd be a lot better than we are now. Butcher was the worst manager ever imo. Took a mid-table side and relegated it.
Love it, thanks! Always wanted one of those!
I was going to ER before you were even born.

Fair point about Butcher though.

[He's here!]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd argue the same for the Aberdeen semi under Lennon, the Ross County LC final under Stubbs, the Hearts semi under Mowbray was a long time ago but I don't remember us playing particularly well for any part of that game. The semi finals against Dunfermline under Collins too, I was at both games and they were both awful.

It's not an issue unique to Jack Ross' Hibs. It's interesting you need to go back to the 1970's to find an example of a Hibs "glorious failure" type of performance in a cup game.

Maybe the Falkirk semi we lost under Stubbs in 2015, from memory we did everything but score in that match.

We were beaten before we even kicked off that game. Riordan, Brown, Killen and Stewart all out injured/suspended plus we'd (crazily) sold O'Connor just beforehand. We had to stick a very young Benji and Fletcher up front, while Zibi had probably his worst of numerous awful performances in goal.

I agree re the Dunfermline semi-finals. Unforgivably dire. There was also a League Cup semi-final defeat to Ayr under McLeish which was equally pathetic.

That 2015 Falkirk semi we deserved to win more than the one where we beat them in 2013.

[MWHIBBIES]

If we had I'd like to think Lennon would have got some credit too. Knowing this place though probably not.

Of course he would have.


He did but realised that and changed it and it altered how the game was going. I’m not convinced we know how to change it or have the players to do it nowadays

Getting the team totally wrong and going 2-0 down is a bad sign. It ultimately cost us.

[Since452]

Important to remember that Ross inherited a disjointed shambles too following Hecky. It's not as if he took over from a position of strength.

Regardless what people think of him it shows just how bad we are now that we're talking about a manager who left 3 years and 3 other managers ago. If we were doing well nobody would be talking about Jack Ross.

[Trinity Hibee]

Of course he would have.



Getting the team totally wrong and going 2-0 down is a bad sign. It ultimately cost us.

Well we got back to 2-2 and were unfortunate not to win the game so I’d suggest differently. Individual mistakes (the first 2 goals) is what gave us a mountain to climb and cost us that game, that is pretty undeniable.

Anyway I didn’t come here to defend Lennon or Ross, just thought it was worth pointing the above out. It’s all long in the past so not going to go back and forth about it.

[MWHIBBIES]

Well we got back to 2-2 and were unfortunate not to win the game so I’d suggest differently. Individual mistakes (the first 2 goals) is what gave us a mountain to climb and cost us that game, that is pretty undeniable.

Anyway I didn’t come here to defend Lennon or Ross, just thought it was worth pointing the above out. It’s all long in the past so not going to go back and forth about it.

Errors did cost us, that's for sure. But we were never in the game till Holt came on. Cummings was a lost boy upfront.

[JimBHibees]

We were beaten before we even kicked off that game. Riordan, Brown, Killen and Stewart all out injured/suspended plus we'd (crazily) sold O'Connor just beforehand. We had to stick a very young Benji and Fletcher up front, while Zibi had probably his worst of numerous awful performances in goal.

I agree re the Dunfermline semi-finals. Unforgivably dire. There was also a League Cup semi-final defeat to Ayr under McLeish which was equally pathetic.

That 2015 Falkirk semi we deserved to win more than the one where we beat them in 2013.

Ayr was under Sauzee

[JimBHibees]

I don't disagree with any of that, but I'd argue the same for the Aberdeen semi under Lennon, the Ross County LC final under Stubbs, the Hearts semi under Mowbray was a long time ago but I don't remember us playing particularly well for any part of that game. The semi finals against Dunfermline under Collins too, I was at both games and they were both awful.

It's not an issue unique to Jack Ross' Hibs. It's interesting you need to go back to the 1970's to find an example of a Hibs "glorious failure" type of performance in a cup game.

Maybe the Falkirk semi we lost under Stubbs in 2015, from memory we did everything but score in that match.

Thought we were clearly the better team v Ross county two calamitous goals killed us

[Since452]

Thought we were clearly the better team v Ross county two calamitous goals killed us

Thank god we lost that final. Gave us the fire in our belly to go and win the Scottish. I was gutted at the time though.

[JimBHibees]

Thank god we lost that final. Gave us the fire in our belly to go and win the Scottish. I was gutted at the time though.

A cup double would have been nice

[BILLYHIBS]

I don’t think you and I are in major disagreement. Lennon’s Aberdeen semi was lost because Cummings thought it was a great idea to invite Daz of the less-than-delicate-touch to play football in the first 10 seconds when I’m sure he wasn’t expecting to receive the ball and Holt wasn’t in the original lineup so Aberdeen’s big defenders could bully our smaller attackers. Once Holt came on the balance of power shifted immediately and the team did itself proud. We were easily the better team ….once we were 2 goals down. We had no shortage of fight that day.

I really liked JR as an individual. I don’t argue that he was not a very good manager for us in his time. I do think, however, that when the really big games arrived he generally failed to get the players to perform even to their regular levels let alone lift themselves for the big occasion. The outlier would be the League Cup semi against Rangers where Boyle did a Stokes and ran them ragged. I don’t know about you, but my recollection of the final against Celtic was thinking how did SDG manage to get the team to perform in a Cup Final to a standard JR couldn’t previously manage? Of course, that view may itself have been coloured by the fact that JR had lost three of the five league games we played after that cup semi so I was expecting another Hampden implosion.

I confess, I’m now wondering where has it all gone wrong for SDG when he managed a Cup Final so well as caretaker?

Ultimately, what any of us think of JR‘s tenure doesn’t really matter. He may have been treated fairly or unfairly, but it’s all over. Things have moved on at quite a pace and we now have SDG and we just have to hope that the gods smile upon him.

Excellent post agree with most of this

My recollection was that Lenny shouted to SJM ‘ Take it for a run John ‘ straight from kick off and unusually he was quickly surrounded and mugged by three Sheep players who proceeded to play the ball quickly like a knife through butter and opened the scoring within seconds

The ball wasn’t sticking with Jase and did when they brought on Big Holty

A brave display by Hibs and a brilliant rare goal from Dylan McGeouch following a neat one two with Holt I think compounded by doing his hammy in celebrating

Unlucky in the end as the Sheep scored following a wicked deflection off Big Daz

What ? It’s a dotnet fact 😀

[Trinity Hibee]

Excellent post agree with most of this

My recollection was that Lenny shouted to SJM ‘ Take it for a run John ‘ straight from kick off and unusually he was quickly surrounded and mugged by three Sheep players who proceeded to play the ball quickly like a knife through butter and opened the scoring within seconds

The ball wasn’t sticking with Jase and did when they brought on Big Holty

A brave display by Hibs and a brilliant rare goal from Dylan McGeouch following a neat one two with Holt I think compounded by doing his hammy in celebrating

Unlucky in the end as the Sheep scored following a wicked deflection off Big Daz

What ? It’s a dotnet fact 😀

Don’t forget Marciano’s last second header from a corner which nearly went in

[BILLYHIBS]

Don’t forget Marciano’s last second header from a corner which nearly went in

😂

[jacomo]

If we had I'd like to think Lennon would have got some credit too. Knowing this place though probably not.


:faf:

Lennon got huge love from the Hibs support, and that was absolutely reflected on here.

[Pagan Hibernia]

:faf:

Lennon got huge love from the Hibs support, and that was absolutely reflected on here.

At the time, sure. Plenty of rewriting of history afterwards though. "He was a disaster for all but three months of his time here" etc. His failures were his own and his successes were other people's.

I'm not getting in to yet another lennon debate. But that and the way JR's achievements (and 3rd place for a hibs team is an achievement) have been written off by some on this thread (someone actually suggested presumably with a straight face that he's been one of our worst managers) shows what an odd and fickle bunch football fans can be. And no, it's not just hibs fans, you get it at every club.

[LaMotta]

At the time, sure. Plenty of rewriting of history afterwards though. "He was a disaster for all but three months of his time here" etc. His failures were his own and his successes were other people's.

I'm not getting in to yet another lennon debate. But that and the way JR's achievements (and 3rd place for a hibs team is an achievement) have been written off by some on this thread (someone actually suggested presumably with a straight face that he's been one of our worst managers) shows what an odd and fickle bunch football fans can be. And no, it's not just hibs fans, you get it at every club.

spot on :agree:

[Nicho87]

Loved Lennon as Hibs manager

Cumdog video with grado even stupid things like that you can tell the squad was very much together. I don’t need posters to reply and say the obvious what happened at the end.

But I loved Lennon kicking every ball going raj at the sideline. Showed the players he cared and from that they cared.

Remember the awful 0-0 with Morton, the highlight being the big scrap at the end. Can’t recall a heated moment where all the players jumped in.

Not saying Lennon is the answer again but I miss the passion and backs against the wall mentality.

[One Day]

Not saying anyone is saying that. These are my observations alone. What I could never forgive Ross was the complete implosions in the Cup games against St J. It wasn't the fact that we lost. It was the gutless manner in which we capitulated. When we were beaten 6-1 by Celtic in ‘72 at least we were in the game until we went 4-1 down. As a commentator said in the St J Cup Final, I forget whom, something along the lines “The Hibs team is still somewhere on the M8.” That was inexcusable lack of match-readiness but damningly accurate.

That was my feeling at the time.

[Northernhibee]

Thought we were clearly the better team v Ross county two calamitous goals killed us

We had been crippled by injuries and had a squad that was knackered from weeks of two games a week. We faded out of that game quite sadly.

[Jock O]

At the time, sure. Plenty of rewriting of history afterwards though. "He was a disaster for all but three months of his time here" etc. His failures were his own and his successes were other people's.
shows what an odd and fickle bunch football fans can be. And no, it's not just hibs fans, you get it at every club.

We do seem to be better and more intent on it than others do we not, or do I just need to get offline and go back into real world, I suspect it is very different there :-)

[MWHIBBIES]

We had been crippled by injuries and had a squad that was knackered from weeks of two games a week. We faded out of that game quite sadly.

Indeed. I never blamed anyone for the RC final. A fully fit squad and we win 100%. I was proud of our effort that day. Was a brilliant season to support Hibs that. Always another big game coming up.

[He's here!]

Indeed. I never blamed anyone for the RC final. A fully fit squad and we win 100%. I was proud of our effort that day. Was a brilliant season to support Hibs that. Always another big game coming up.

The bigger game turned out to be the midweek Scottish Cup replay at Inverness after that final. Plenty Hibs sides would have been too deflated for that but we really bounced back well. Stokes stepped up to the mark (as he would do in the final).

[MWHIBBIES]

The bigger game turned out to be the midweek Scottish Cup replay at Inverness after that final. Plenty Hibs sides would have been too deflated for that but we really bounced back well. Stokes stepped up to the mark (as he would do in the final).

Stubbs installed a great mentality in that side. They took some knocks, but kept on going.

[TrinityHFC]

Indeed. I never blamed anyone for the RC final. A fully fit squad and we win 100%. I was proud of our effort that day. Was a brilliant season to support Hibs that. Always another big game coming up.

Winning the cup was obviously as good as it gets but I didn't feel that way about the team running up to the final. We had some horrendous results in the final quarter of that season - many of them individually even would be seen as catastrophic now. Leaving Falkirk the week before it felt like the club was on the edge of having a very dark future indeed and could well have had if we hadn't pulled off the cup win.

[MWHIBBIES]

Winning the cup was obviously as good as it gets but I didn't feel that way about the team running up to the final. We had some horrendous results in the final quarter of that season - many of them individually even would be seen as catastrophic now. Leaving Falkirk the week before it felt like the club was on the edge of having a very dark future indeed and could well have had if we hadn't pulled off the cup win.

I dunno. Falkirk defeat was largely down to some terrible refereeing decisions. Hibs played well. I was gutted of course, felt awful leaving the ground that night. But that team were real warriors. To reach both finals, beating so many spl sides, was brilliant. I wish we'd got to see them in the top flight more often.

Stubbs started to give us a real strong mentality imo. That side ran and fought for every ball. Gave Lennon a great job to take over.

[Winston Ingram]

Stubbs installed a great mentality in that side. They took some knocks, but kept on going.

I'm no sure that's 100% correct. We were brilliant in the big games, v SPL clubs, Hearts and Sevco. v everyone else, we were very inconsistent and absolutely owned by Falkirk. Let's not forget that that side delivered our lowest ever league finish in 50 years.

[Not In The Know]

I don't think it can be underestimated the difference SJM made to that team. Lennons fell apart after he left.

[Winston Ingram]

I dunno. Falkirk defeat was largely down to some terrible refereeing decisions. Hibs played well. I was gutted of course, felt awful leaving the ground that night. But that team were real warriors. To reach both finals, beating so many spl sides, was brilliant. I wish we'd got to see them in the top flight more often.

Stubbs started to give us a real strong mentality imo. That side ran and fought for every ball. Gave Lennon a great job to take over.

That was true but we lost to them the way we always lost to them. Via set pieces, long throws and crosses. Pretty sure we only won 2 in 12 or something like that v Falkirk in Stubbs time here.

[MWHIBBIES]

I'm no sure that's 100% correct. We were brilliant in the big games, v SPL clubs, Hearts and Sevco. v everyone else, we were very inconsistent and absolutely owned by Falkirk. Let's not forget that that side delivered our lowest ever league finish in 50 years.

Owned by Falkirk? When did this happen? They beat us a few times by the odd goal, we beat them a few times by the odd goal, and the rest were draws. It was probably the best Falkirk side in decades too. They ended up in league 1 for 5 years, we got promoted and won the cup. I don't feel owned tbh.

I don't forget that. Injuries totally depleted us for a 6/8 week period and we lost 4/5 games. Had that not happened, we'd probably have won the league cup too, and been very close if not above Rangers.

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.

[Since452]

Some horrific results under Stubbs but all said and done it was an enjoyable time supporting Hibs. Felt like he, and Dempster gave us our club back. I remember feeling quite emotional after the Aberdeen cup game when Malonga decided to turn into Pele. Felt like something was brewing after years of *****.

[BILLYHIBS]

Also remember an enjoyable League Cup quarter final win over an over confident Premiership Dundee United side 3-0 at ER in our cup winning year with goals from SDG Jase and Lewis

[Smartie]

Owned by Falkirk? When did this happen? They beat us a few times by the odd goal, we beat them a few times by the odd goal, and the rest were draws. It was probably the best Falkirk side in decades too. They ended up in league 1 for 5 years, we got promoted and won the cup. I don't feel owned tbh.

I don't forget that. Injuries totally depleted us for a 6/8 week period and we lost 4/5 games. Had that not happened, we'd probably have won the league cup too, and been very close if not above Rangers.

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.

I loved that side too but the lows were plentiful and tbh I got very close to losing confidence in Stubbs during his second season.

It's easy with hindsight but none of us really thought we'd win the cup when we were making heavy weather of the second half of that season, picking up some truly awful results along the way and making it look like we were going to spend a highly unappealing third season in the Championship.

I look back at that time with fondness, definitely, but acknowledge it for the rollercoaster it was, with many dips. Whilst I think your point re Stubbs instilling something in that squad has merit, it was almost an accidental consequence as it was done by going to places like Dumbarton and Alloa and losing with reasonable regularity.

[Smartie]

Some horrific results under Stubbs but all said and done it was an enjoyable time supporting Hibs. Felt like he, and Dempster gave us our club back. I remember feeling quite emotional after the Aberdeen cup game when Malonga decided to turn into Pele. Felt like something was brewing after years of *****.

You can actually do a fairly grim thing where you take out a brief period of progress under Stubbs / Lennon (recruitment arguably only under Stubbs) and go right up to the point John Collins left and get the fat end of 2 decades of decline and drivel, punctuated by a very brief spell where we appeared to get our act together - a spell that carried us for a while beyond that, as we went back to our previous nonsense of steadily and consistently replacing players with inferior alternatives and repeatedly sacking managers.

We're talking possibly 3 consecutive good transfer windows as an island in a terrible stretch of about 17 years maybe?

I agree about the feeling of "getting our team back" around the November of Stubbs' first season when Scott Allan, Malonga and co started to click into gear.

[Winston Ingram]

Owned by Falkirk? When did this happen? They beat us a few times by the odd goal, we beat them a few times by the odd goal, and the rest were draws. It was probably the best Falkirk side in decades too. They ended up in league 1 for 5 years, we got promoted and won the cup. I don't feel owned tbh.

I don't forget that. Injuries totally depleted us for a 6/8 week period and we lost 4/5 games. Had that not happened, we'd probably have won the league cup too, and been very close if not above Rangers.

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.

We beat them twice in 11 matches. They beat us 4 times and every single goal they got scored was via the same way and Stubbs couldn' work out a way to stop it. As for these injuries we had. I've just looked through the teams picked in these games and I'm struggling to notice any major absences. Who were they? McGeouch missed a few but we had more than a enough cover to comfortable deal with the pish we were facing in that run.

Between the end of February and early April, we threw away our title chances by losing 5 games out of 7 including defeats to Dumbarton, Morton, QoS, Raith and Alloa.

[MWHIBBIES]

We beat them twice in 11 matches. They beat us 4 times and every single goal they got scored was via the same way and Stubbs couldn' work out a way to stop it. As for these injuries we had. I've just looked through the teams picked in these games and I'm struggling to notice any major absences. Who were they? McGeouch missed a few but we had more than a enough cover to comfortable deal with the pish we were facing in that run.

Between the end of February and early April, we threw away our title chances by losing 5 games out of 7 including defeats to Dumbarton, Morton, QoS, Raith and Alloa.

Hanlon, Fyvie and Mcgeouch all missed games then. Meaning guys like Mcginn were running on empty playing every 3 days for majority of the season. We had a shocking run yeah. Still a brilliant, cup winning, Hibs side.

Will always love Stubbs, and his great work made Lennon's job much easier. When it came to rebuilding Stubbs side, Lennon and Hecky failed big time.

[Bushwoof]

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.
Abso-f'in-lutely.

[One Day Soon]

Owned by Falkirk? When did this happen? They beat us a few times by the odd goal, we beat them a few times by the odd goal, and the rest were draws. It was probably the best Falkirk side in decades too. They ended up in league 1 for 5 years, we got promoted and won the cup. I don't feel owned tbh.

I don't forget that. Injuries totally depleted us for a 6/8 week period and we lost 4/5 games. Had that not happened, we'd probably have won the league cup too, and been very close if not above Rangers.

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.

I have always argued that the side Stubbs built was a side for the Premiership rather than for the Championship and I think that's why it struggled a little against the more clogging football in that league. That's why we did so well against teams from the top league and were ready for it when we finally came back into it.

[J-C]

Stubb's ream played some cracking football but occasionally struggled against teams that sit in, hence why he had a good record against Premiership teams in cups. Although it took us 3 goes to get promotion the football was a great watch and many of the players got us and they played that way. It's a testament to Bartley, McGinn, McGeouch etc that we still think of them fondly and are all welcome back at any time.

[Winston Ingram]

Hanlon, Fyvie and Mcgeouch all missed games then. Meaning guys like Mcginn were running on empty playing every 3 days for majority of the season. We had a shocking run yeah. Still a brilliant, cup winning, Hibs side.

Will always love Stubbs, and his great work made Lennon's job much easier. When it came to rebuilding Stubbs side, Lennon and Hecky failed big time.

It was the Championship, and we were up against pish. We had more than enough cover to cope with that. As for playing twice a week, that maybe an excuse for CL sides travelling all over Europe but it's not an excuse for a team playing vastly inferior teams and barely leaving the central belt.

I loved watching Stubbs sides in the big games. We were brilliant, but let's not re-write history. Unlike Hearts and Sevco, that side really struggled against the crap in that league.

I certainly don't think Lennon struggled to rebuild that side. He made it better. He added the width we needed to get out that league and nearly took us to third in our first year back.

[Winston Ingram]

Stubb's ream played some cracking football but occasionally struggled against teams that sit in, hence why he had a good record against Premiership teams in cups. Although it took us 3 goes to get promotion the football was a great watch and many of the players got us and they played that way. It's a testament to Bartley, McGinn, McGeouch etc that we still think of them fondly and are all welcome back at any time.

That's my point exactly. The diamond midfield worked great in big games, but played right into the hands of teams that parked the bus.

[MWHIBBIES]

It was the Championship, and we were up against pish. We had more than enough cover to cope with that. As for playing twice a week, that maybe an excuse for CL sides travelling all over Europe but it's not an excuse for a team playing vastly inferior teams and barely leaving the central belt.

I loved watching Stubbs sides in the big games. We were brilliant, but let's not re-write history. Unlike Hearts and Sevco, that side really struggled against the crap in that league.

I certainly don't think Lennon struggled to rebuild that side. He made it better. He added the width we needed to get out that league and nearly took us to third in our first year back.

Yeah, Lennon got how many more points than Stubbs in the championship? And that was with totally sacking the league cup to crap opposition.

Lennon added Efe and Marciano who made it better, but then made it a whole lot worse when Stubbs core guys left.

Playing every 3 days is an excuse at any level. If we had sacrificed the cups and focused purely on the league, we'd have finished 1st that year. Rangers were nothing special.

Bartley and Thomson weren't good replacements for Fyvie and Mcgeouch. Made us much worse at moving the ball forward and breaking teams down.

[He's here!]

Owned by Falkirk? When did this happen? They beat us a few times by the odd goal, we beat them a few times by the odd goal, and the rest were draws. It was probably the best Falkirk side in decades too. They ended up in league 1 for 5 years, we got promoted and won the cup. I don't feel owned tbh.

I don't forget that. Injuries totally depleted us for a 6/8 week period and we lost 4/5 games. Had that not happened, we'd probably have won the league cup too, and been very close if not above Rangers.

I really hate when that side gets remembered for being 3rd. That time following us was far more enjoyable than just existing in the top league. Amazing, dramatic cup runs, great player, good football. The ultimate ending with the cup win. It gave us our club back. Every time that season is mentioned I see ****ing Falkirk mentioned. Not the 6 wins against Rangers, much better performances in derbys, fighting back, winning semi finals, beating an unbeaten Aberdeen side at ER. Makes me wonder if some actually deserve good times following Hibs.

Bewildering that anyone would quibble about whether a season where we ended the 114-year Scottish Cup famine was a good season. So effing what if we didn't make it out of the Championship? With Hearts and Rangers also down there with us to start with it's not that surprising it took us three seasons to get back up. We even finished above Rangers the first season. We weren't a richly-funded, big-names galore, all-conquering side like the one McLeish brought back up in a season. We were a work in progress with plenty of young, talented players prone to some inconsistency.

I can't even remember what happened to Falkirk after they won the play-off against us. They obviously stayed down though and I recall pretty much killing off their title hopes at ER the following season. As you say, the nothingness of treading water in the top flight (or, as we are at present, fretting about relegation) is a long way from many highs of those days. Give me that time over the current c**p any day.

[mcohibs]

I will never forget that terrible cup final we lost, he should have been punted after that and who can forget the grand job he did at Dundee United ?-not

Jack Ross had the highest win percentage of any Hibs manager since the 1960s.

The cup final loss was bad but can you imagine this squad being anywhere near Hampden in the near future? Not a hope in hell.

Punting JR has been catastrophic for this football club.

[Trinity Hibee]

Bewildering that anyone would quibble about whether a season where we ended the 114-year Scottish Cup famine was a good season. So effing what if we didn't make it out of the Championship? With Hearts and Rangers also down there with us to start with it's not that surprising it took us three seasons to get back up. We even finished above Rangers the first season. We weren't a richly-funded, big-names galore, all-conquering side like the one McLeish brought back up in a season. We were a work in progress with plenty of young, talented players prone to some inconsistency.

I can't even remember what happened to Falkirk after they won the play-off against us. They obviously stayed down though and I recall pretty much killing off their title hopes at ER the following season. As you say, the nothingness of treading water in the top flight (or, as we are at present, fretting about relegation) is a long way from many highs of those days. Give me that time over the current c**p any day.

Falkirk lost 4-1 on agg to Killie in play off final

[Winston Ingram]

Yeah, Lennon got how many more points than Stubbs in the championship? And that was with totally sacking the league cup to crap opposition.

Lennon added Efe and Marciano who made it better, but then made it a whole lot worse when Stubbs core guys left.

Playing every 3 days is an excuse at any level. If we had sacrificed the cups and focused purely on the league, we'd have finished 1st that year. Rangers were nothing special.

Bartley and Thomson weren't good replacements for Fyvie and Mcgeouch. Made us much worse at moving the ball forward and breaking teams down.

That's just guesswork. The reason we didn't win that league was that ridiculous diamond midfield formation. It was brilliant against teams that came at us but the only teams that came at us in the Championship were Hearts and Sevco. It was a dream for everyone else as every other team knew exactly how to play us. Double bank through the middle as we had no width and then hit us with a set piece, as everyone knew we couldn't defend them.

Bartley and Thomson may not have been good enough replacements in your eyes but they were more than good enough to see off the might of the likes of Alloa, Dumbarton and Morton.

As for Lennon. He got us to 4th in PL. Stubbs last league finish was 3rd in the Championship.

[BILLYHIBS]

Jack Ross had the highest win percentage of any Hibs manager since the 1960s.

The cup final loss was bad but can you imagine this squad being anywhere near Hampden in the near future? Not a hope in hell.

Punting JR has been catastrophic for this football club.

Jock Stein 31:50 Willie MacFarlane 28:57 Alan Stubbs 59:100 and Bob Shankly 120:230 all had a higher win percentage than Jack Ross 48:96 = Tony Mowbray 54:108

To be equal with Mowbray is impressive

Includes all competitive matches

www.fifbastats.com

[MWHIBBIES]

That's just guesswork. The reason we didn't win that league was that ridiculous diamond midfield formation. It was brilliant against teams that came at us but the only teams that came at us in the Championship were Hearts and Sevco. It was a dream for everyone else as every other team knew exactly how to play us. Double bank through the middle as we had no width and then hit us with a set piece, as everyone knew we couldn't defend them.

Bartley and Thomson may not have been good enough replacements in your eyes but they were more than good enough to see off the might of the likes of Alloa, Dumbarton and Morton.

As for Lennon. He got us to 4th in PL. Stubbs last league finish was 3rd in the Championship.

You think wingers do well against 10 defenders in the box? Are you new to football?

It worked extremely well most weeks. Our finishing usually let us down. We created plenty.

We won a lot of games for a team that "everyone knew" couldn't defend set pieces. Think you're getting us mixed up with Rangers, who we scored at least 4 goals from corners against that season.

Bartley especially wasnt at all effective against the likes of Alloa, as he couldn't pass the length of himself. Excellent in a fight, but otherwise, his strengths weren't useful.

As for Stubbs, he won the Scottish cup with Hibs. Eclipses anything Lennon achieved by far, who got pumped out by Leveins Hearts.

[21May16]

Bewildering that anyone would quibble about whether a season where we ended the 114-year Scottish Cup famine was a good season. So effing what if we didn't make it out of the Championship? With Hearts and Rangers also down there with us to start with it's not that surprising it took us three seasons to get back up. We even finished above Rangers the first season. We weren't a richly-funded, big-names galore, all-conquering side like the one McLeish brought back up in a season. We were a work in progress with plenty of young, talented players prone to some inconsistency.

I can't even remember what happened to Falkirk after they won the play-off against us. They obviously stayed down though and I recall pretty much killing off their title hopes at ER the following season. As you say, the nothingness of treading water in the top flight (or, as we are at present, fretting about relegation) is a long way from many highs of those days. Give me that time over the current c**p any day.

Killie hammered them the day of the parade.

Totally agree with the rest of your post too.

[CapitalGreen]

You think wingers do well against 10 defenders in the box? Are you new to football?

It worked extremely well most weeks. Our finishing usually let us down. We created plenty.

We won a lot of games for a team that "everyone knew" couldn't defend set pieces. Think you're getting us mixed up with Rangers, who we scored at least 4 goals from corners against that season.

Bartley especially wasnt at all effective against the likes of Alloa, as he couldn't pass the length of himself. Excellent in a fight, but otherwise, his strengths weren't useful.

As for Stubbs, he won the Scottish cup with Hibs. Eclipses anything Lennon achieved by far, who got pumped out by Leveins Hearts.

Hearts won the league at a canter playing with wingers.

[Winston Ingram]

You think wingers do well against 10 defenders in the box? Are you new to football?

It worked extremely well most weeks. Our finishing usually let us down. We created plenty.

We won a lot of games for a team that "everyone knew" couldn't defend set pieces. Think you're getting us mixed up with Rangers, who we scored at least 4 goals from corners against that season.

Bartley especially wasnt at all effective against the likes of Alloa, as he couldn't pass the length of himself. Excellent in a fight, but otherwise, his strengths weren't useful.

As for Stubbs, he won the Scottish cup win Hibs. Eclipses anything Lennon achieved by far.

Wide players widen the pitch which creates more gaps. We played 2 years with a diamond enabling the opposition to defend with width of their box.

The 1st season, Hearts played with Walker and Nicholson wide and scored about 30 more goals and got 20 odd more points than us. They were battering the pish that was in that league.

Despite seeing that, Stubbs continued with the diamond and Sevco the next season played with McKay and Waghorn and scored about 30 more goals and got 11 more points than us. They would've likely got a lot more points is they hadn't wrapped the title so early. They for no being that great were also battering the pish we were struggling against.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't swap what happened for the world now. Our collapse and inability to beat the dreadful sides in the league that Hearts and Sevco so easily swatted aside, helped us massively win the cup. Rangers won the title with 5 games to spare which meant they had **** all to play for about 8 weeks before the Cup Final.

[Unseen work]

You think wingers do well against 10 defenders in the box? Are you new to football?

It worked extremely well most weeks. Our finishing usually let us down. We created plenty.

We won a lot of games for a team that "everyone knew" couldn't defend set pieces. Think you're getting us mixed up with Rangers, who we scored at least 4 goals from corners against that season.

Bartley especially wasnt at all effective against the likes of Alloa, as he couldn't pass the length of himself. Excellent in a fight, but otherwise, his strengths weren't useful.

As for Stubbs, he won the Scottish cup with Hibs. Eclipses anything Lennon achieved by far, who got pumped out by Leveins Hearts.

Are you trying to say wingers aren’t any use against 10 defenders in the box?

Someone should tell Celtic that as they play against it every week.

Their wingers and fullbacks are probably involved in 90% of their goals from their forward runs, overlaps and cut backs

[MWHIBBIES]

Are you trying to say wingers aren’t any use against 10 defenders in the box?

Someone should tell Celtic that as they play against it every week.

Their wingers and fullbacks are probably involved in 90% of their goals from their forward runs, overlaps and cut backs

Yes, those are excellent footballers, and it works. But against 10 defenders every week, it's about execution and finishing. Just playing with wingers wasn't going to make much difference. Lennon didn't either.

Huns got about 25 penalties the year they won the league didn't they? Hard to win against that.

Stubbs had us doing well with what we had. We weren't easy to play against at all.

[MWHIBBIES]

Hearts won the league at a canter playing with wingers.

Hearts won the league playing better than us.

If we were so easily beaten by 10 defenders, every SPL side we beat would've done it.

[Winston Ingram]

Yes, those are excellent footballers, and it works. But against 10 defenders every week, it's about execution and finishing. Just playing with wingers wasn't going to make much difference. Lennon didn't either.

Huns got about 25 penalties the year they won the league didn't they? Hard to win against that.

Stubbs had us doing well with what we had. We weren't easy to play against at all.

How did Sevco and Hearts manage to swat away playing against 10 defenders every week? 10 of the Huns 88 League goals in their promotion season were pens, not 25.

[MWHIBBIES]

How did Sevco and Hearts manage to swat away playing against 10 defenders every week? 10 of the Huns 88 League goals in their promotion season were pens, not 25.

I think they played better than Hibs over 36 matches. Wingers aren't some amazing answer to low blocks. We've got good wingers now and don't score any goals.

[Winston Ingram]

I think they played better than Hibs over 36 matches. Wingers aren't some amazing answer to low blocks. We've got good wingers now and don't score any goals.

They may or they may not be, but playing with little width and allowing the defending side to only defend the width of their box, plays right into the hands of a low block and Hearts and Sevco knew that, so played with wide players and managed to scud them no problem.

I dunno why you are comparing the teams now and then. What ye seem to be missing is the teams we were playing against were a league below us and absolutely murder. To add to that, when playing our 3 games a week which you claim was so difficult, in the midweek games, the teams like Alloa and Dumbarton had oftendone a full days work prior to putting their boots on that evening.

To add to that, we rarely see teams in the top league coming and parking the bus like teams like the pish in the championship did.

[MWHIBBIES]

They may or they may not be, but playing with little width and allowing the defending side to only defend the width of their box, plays right into the hands of a low block and Hearts and Sevco knew that, so played with wide players and managed to scud them no problem.

I dunno why you are comparing the teams now and then. What ye seem to be missing is the teams we were playing against were a league below us and absolutely murder. To add to that, when playing our 3 games a week which you claim was so difficult, in the midweek games, the teams like Alloa and Dumbarton had oftendone a full days work prior to putting their boots on that evening.

To add to that, we rarely see teams in the top league coming and parking the bus like teams like the pish in the championship did.

They werent only defending the width of their box, though. We had fullbacks bombing on. Gray and Stevenson offered good width. Scored plenty goals from crosses and offered a good threat from wide with Allan, Malonga, Cummings etc drifting out there. If anything we didn't get enough goals from those midfielders. Had we had a 10/15 goal midfielder, we'd have been much better off.

We played 1 midweek fixture Vs part time opposition in 3 years in the championship. We won 4-0. Not sure that hit where you wanted it to.

3 games a week is very difficult. We were 55 or so games the season we won the cup. Id imagine mcginn, Stevenson, Cummings, McGregor, Hanlon etc play just about every one when fit. Of course that takes a toll.
It's no accident hearts chucked the league cup in their only season down.

[mcohibs]

Jock Stein 31:50 Willie MacFarlane 28:57 Alan Stubbs 59:100 and Bob Shankly 120:230 all had a higher win percentage than Jack Ross 48:96 = Tony Mowbray 54:108

To be equal with Mowbray is impressive

Includes all competitive matches

www.fifbastats.com

Stein, Macfarlane, Shankly all 1960s as I say. I didnt include Stubbs due to seasons in the championship which I should have mentioned. My source had JR ever so slightly ahead of Mowbray but basically nothing in it as you say.