Gayle- “we are too nice”

[Albert Kidd 86’]

Gayle quoted in press saying we are too nice. Completely agree. When someone with his experience speaks out like that it is a good idea to listen and act on his words.

it is a “jungle” out there (no pun intended), and it is eat or be eaten. We are being consumed with ease at the moment.

Gray has to instil a killer instinct, starting at training this morning.

I support SDG and want him to be successful. I am willing to accept he will make errors, learning from those errors is the thing.

what I want to see on Sunday from the moment the team come out to warm up is a very high level of intensity and laser like concentration on the task.

No Mr, nice guys on Sunday. Gayle and the other more “experienced” players should not need to dig out their team mates, but I think on this occasion he is correct and I hope he follows up on his comments and gives his teammates a rocket �� right up their collective behinds.

I would like to see Gray make Gayle captain on Sunday with instructions to light a fire under anyone not giving their all from minute 1 to 99:wink:

If someone is not pulling their weight, or obviously tiring sub them immediately.

this game will define what happens next on many levels for Hibs, defeat is unthinkable and completely unacceptable.

we can do this.

[theonlywayisup]

Gayle quoted in press saying we are too nice. Completely agree. When someone with his experience speaks out like that it is a good idea to listen and act on his words.

it is a “jungle” out there (no pun intended), and it is eat or be eaten. We are being consumed with ease at the moment.

Gray has to instil a killer instinct, starting at training this morning.

I support SDG and want him to be successful. I am willing to accept he will make errors, learning from those errors is the thing.

what I want to see on Sunday from the moment the team come out to warm up is a very high level of intensity and laser like concentration on the task.

No Mr, nice guys on Sunday. Gayle and the other more “experienced” players should not need to dig out their team mates, but I think on this occasion he is correct and I hope he follows up on his comments and gives his teammates a rocket �� right up their collective behinds.

I would like to see Gray make Gayle captain on Sunday with instructions to light a fire under anyone not giving their all from minute 1 to 99:wink:

If someone is not pulling their weight, or obviously tiring sub them immediately.

this game will define what happens next on many levels for Hibs, defeat is unthinkable and completely unacceptable.

we can do this.

Fully agree that it's the players that have to man up and give 110% and cut out the mistakes.

However, one major problem is the lack of decent alternatives.

It's easy with hindsight saying that Newell should have been withdrawn before his sending off, but who would you have replaced him with? A much maligned Josh Campbell or a totally inadequate Dylan Levitt.

I do think we've also shot ourselves in the foot by not selecting Amos, Kenneh, JDH etc. It means our current back-ups have no fear of being dropped. What a mess we are in!

[MWHIBBIES]

Not too nice, just crap. Plenty nice, clean, fair players played for us and been exceptional.

Had 2 players sent off in 2 games. Pure stupidity and lack of quality cost us both matches.

[Cooshed Kid]

No Mr, nice guys on Sunday. Gayle and the other more “experienced” players should not need to dig out their team mates, but I think on this occasion he is correct and I hope he follows up on his comments and gives his teammates a rocket �� right up their collective behinds.

I would like to see Gray make Gayle captain on Sunday with instructions to light a fire under anyone not giving their all from minute 1 to 99:wink:



I agree 100%.

[Heisenberg]

So there’s not enough players in the changing room demanding more from each other. Mistakes are being made and it’s a carry on as usual don’t worry about it attitude.

So much for signing the right characters in the summer. Replaced the entire middle of the defence and we’re even softer but at least they are good lads. Got sammy the goalie coach to play the clown and cheer them up at the training ground too. Great stuff.

[B.H.F.C]

So there’s not enough players in the changing room demanding more from each other. Mistakes are being made and it’s a carry on as usual don’t worry about it attitude.

So much for signing the right characters in the summer. Replaced the entire middle of the defence and we’re even softer but at least they are good lads. Got sammy the goalie coach to play the clown and cheer them up at the training ground too. Great stuff.

The stuff about the right characters was an absolute load of pish. Every single player we signed it was referenced how good a character they were. Nonsense. There is nobody setting any standards there.

[He's here!]

Gayle quoted in press saying we are too nice. Completely agree. When someone with his experience speaks out like that it is a good idea to listen and act on his words.

it is a “jungle” out there (no pun intended), and it is eat or be eaten. We are being consumed with ease at the moment.

Gray has to instil a killer instinct, starting at training this morning.

I support SDG and want him to be successful. I am willing to accept he will make errors, learning from those errors is the thing.

what I want to see on Sunday from the moment the team come out to warm up is a very high level of intensity and laser like concentration on the task.

No Mr, nice guys on Sunday. Gayle and the other more “experienced” players should not need to dig out their team mates, but I think on this occasion he is correct and I hope he follows up on his comments and gives his teammates a rocket �� right up their collective behinds.

I would like to see Gray make Gayle captain on Sunday with instructions to light a fire under anyone not giving their all from minute 1 to 99:wink:

If someone is not pulling their weight, or obviously tiring sub them immediately.

this game will define what happens next on many levels for Hibs, defeat is unthinkable and completely unacceptable.

we can do this.

Unfortunately defeat is very 'thinkable'. And while we might claim it's unacceptable it's not really. We'd just have to accept it. What's the alternative?

[flash]

Unfortunately defeat is very 'thinkable'. And while we might claim it's unacceptable it's not really. We'd just have to accept it. What's the alternative?

I hope you aren't going to spend the whole week telling us all how we have no chance whatsoever at home against a team with the same amount of points as us.

[Onion]

Of course we're too nice. But that's baked into the club and cannot be fixed with a team talk or players trying to give 110%. We've all seen it time and again, Hibs come out to an important Derby match fired up and within minutes get players booked / sent off. Diving into tackles, stamping on backs, confronting the keeper, falling for Hearts playacting ... there is a whole back catalogue of examples.

We need a change of culture in the club, from top to bottom. Meantime, all we can do is buckle up.

[Scottie]

Unfortunately defeat is very 'thinkable'. And while we might claim it's unacceptable it's not really. We'd just have to accept it. What's the alternative?
Maybe just turn up for once and win the ******g game is the alternative.

[flash]

Of course we're too nice. But that's baked into the club and cannot be fixed with a team talk or players trying to give 110%. We've all seen it time and again, Hibs come out to an important Derby match fired up and within minutes get players booked / sent off. Diving into tackles, stamping on backs, confronting the keeper, falling for Hearts playacting ... there is a whole back catalogue of examples.

We need a change of culture in the club, from top to bottom. Meantime, all we can do is buckle up.

Bit confused here.

You appear to say we are being too nice by being too fired up?

[Alfred E Newman]

Bit confused here.

You appear to say we are being too nice by being too fired up?

I think he means our alternative to nice is committing stupid fouls , getting booked and sent off. Other teams are hard and committed without that.. Joe Newell for example just can't tackle without risking a booking.

[Ozyhibby]

Gayle is pretty much saying the manager has got the culture all wrong at the club.


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[Pedantic_Hibee]

Gayle is pretty much saying the manager has got the culture all wrong at the club.


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Yep, and he’s spot on. I thought SDG would have been tough on the players, after all he said he knew what needed to be changed. Ultimately, it looks like he’s too soft, playing his pals and rewarding them with contract extensions and a place in the starting line-up even though they’re not “showing enough desire” in his words.

What a sorry, sorry state this club is in.

[HarpOnHibee]

It's not as simple as just being "too nice". It's the overall values that are instilled into the staff and the players at the club. We stick with the same values but expect things to just mystically change someday in terms of the results. The fundamental values need to change.

[J-C]

Thing is, Gray had that kind of character as a player, you'd think he'd want that in his squad, he was a strong in the tackle, chased and harried every ball and was a leader on the park, we lost a few like that in recent years, Daz, Stevenson, McGinn etc, they've never been replaced.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Thing is, Gray had that kind of character as a player, you'd think he'd want that in his squad, he was a strong in the tackle, chased and harried every ball and was a leader on the park, we lost a few like that in recent years, Daz, Stevenson, McGinn etc, they've never been replaced.

I never saw Gray as a bawler as Captain. Hard in the tackle and led by example in terms of his work ethic. But not once did I see him go through his own teammates and demand the same standards as he showed. Mind you, we had players in the team who already had the same standards as him.

Now? We’ve got Joe ****ing Newell who to the untrained eye looks like he’s fully committed when in reality he’s that ****ing slow he arrives late in the tackle or pulls a shirt back. When he is your captain and your standard bearer, you’re up against it as soon as the game is kicked off. And what do we do with the level of performance and ethic he’s shown up until the end of last season? Another three years and the captains armband. Dearie ****ing me.

All this has shown me is that SDG is just as soft as the rest of them. Doesn’t want to point fingers. Why not? Call them out specifically because what you’re doing right now sure as hell isn’t working. They’re getting away with it every week and being rewarded with a game the following week.

[flash]

I never saw Gray as a bawler as Captain. Hard in the tackle and led by example in terms of his work ethic. But not once did I see him go through his own teammates and demand the same standards as he showed. Mind you, we had players in the team who already had the same standards as him.

Now? We’ve got Joe ****ing Newell who to the untrained eye looks like he’s fully committed when in reality he’s that ****ing slow he arrives late in the tackle or pulls a shirt back. When he is your captain and your standard bearer, you’re up against it as soon as the game is kicked off. And what do we do with the level of performance and ethic he’s shown up until the end of last season? Another three years and the captains armband. Dearie ****ing me.

All this has shown me is that SDG is just as soft as the rest of them. Doesn’t want to point fingers. Why not? Call them out specifically because what you’re doing right now sure as hell isn’t working. They’re getting away with it every week and being rewarded with a game the following week.

Be interested to hear about a single occasion where a manager naming specific players in public has led to a better outcome.

It's what he is saying to them in private that counts.

[Ozyhibby]

Be interested to hear about a single occasion where a manager naming specific players in public has led to a better outcome.

It's what he is saying to them in private that counts.

If Gayle is to be believed then not much is being said in private either.


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[J-C]

I never saw Gray as a bawler as Captain. Hard in the tackle and led by example in terms of his work ethic. But not once did I see him go through his own teammates and demand the same standards as he showed. Mind you, we had players in the team who already had the same standards as him.

Now? We’ve got Joe ****ing Newell who to the untrained eye looks like he’s fully committed when in reality he’s that ****ing slow he arrives late in the tackle or pulls a shirt back. When he is your captain and your standard bearer, you’re up against it as soon as the game is kicked off. And what do we do with the level of performance and ethic he’s shown up until the end of last season? Another three years and the captains armband. Dearie ****ing me.

All this has shown me is that SDG is just as soft as the rest of them. Doesn’t want to point fingers. Why not? Call them out specifically because what you’re doing right now sure as hell isn’t working. They’re getting away with it every week and being rewarded with a game the following week.

I never said he was a bawler, but he did lead by example, as did a few others between 2015 and 2017, that's why we won a cup, nearly got 2nd and got Europe, at the moment I don't see anyone leading by example, when we go down, there's no one leading on the pitch to get us back in, our heads go down and we know the outcome.

[flash]

If Gayle is to be believed then not much is being said in private either.


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Aye I would be expecting a few dressing room bust ups by now.

[Cooshed Kid]

I never saw Gray as a bawler as Captain. Hard in the tackle and led by example in terms of his work ethic. But not once did I see him go through his own teammates and demand the same standards as he showed. Mind you, we had players in the team who already had the same standards as him.

Now? We’ve got Joe ****ing Newell who to the untrained eye looks like he’s fully committed when in reality he’s that ****ing slow he arrives late in the tackle or pulls a shirt back. When he is your captain and your standard bearer, you’re up against it as soon as the game is kicked off. And what do we do with the level of performance and ethic he’s shown up until the end of last season? Another three years and the captains armband. Dearie ****ing me.

All this has shown me is that SDG is just as soft as the rest of them. Doesn’t want to point fingers. Why not? Call them out specifically because what you’re doing right now sure as hell isn’t working. They’re getting away with it every week and being rewarded with a game the following week.

I agree with you about SDG. In fact, I posted much the same yesterday. While I was getting incensed watching the team in its final season in the Championship dominating possession but our players being unable to score from it as they should, he never seemed to get upset with any of his teammates for just going through the motions or passing the ball around in a non-threatening manner or in our own half as time ebbed away.

I like him and I like what he says, but the team is simply failing to perform. It's great if you can reason with your players and get them to improve but sometimes you need the Fergie hairdryer or for someone to go full Roy Keane in the dressingroom and on the pitch. That's not Joe Newell, who for all his talent as a passer is always a gnat's ba' hair away from a booking. Gayle publicly identified the problem. Give him the armband. He can't be worse than JN.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I never said he was a bawler, but he did lead by example, as did a few others between 2015 and 2017, that's why we won a cup, nearly got 2nd and got Europe, at the moment I don't see anyone leading by example, when we go down, there's no one leading on the pitch to get us back in, our heads go down and we know the outcome.

Absolutely JC, I was agreeing with you. Apologies if my post came across otherwise.

[MWHIBBIES]

Yep, and he’s spot on. I thought SDG would have been tough on the players, after all he said he knew what needed to be changed. Ultimately, it looks like he’s too soft, playing his pals and rewarding them with contract extensions and a place in the starting line-up even though they’re not “showing enough desire” in his words.

What a sorry, sorry state this club is in.

Who are his pals?

Newell plays because he is miles better than nmw, Campbell, jdh. Not because he is pals with gray.

[HarpOnHibee]

Who are his pals?

Newell plays because he is miles better than nmw, Campbell, jdh. Not because he is pals with gray.

Just because one player may be better than another, doesn't mean you automatically offer them contract extensions when even they are incapable of performing up to standard.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Who are his pals?

Newell plays because he is miles better than nmw, Campbell, jdh. Not because he is pals with gray.

Campbell.

[MWHIBBIES]

Campbell.

Yeah. A dreadful footballer.

[MWHIBBIES]

Just because one player may be better than another, doesn't mean you automatically offer them contract extensions when even they are incapable of performing up to standard.

I mean, sure. Can argue all day about Newell contract extension. It's not the reason were bottom, though. It's not even part of it.

[HarpOnHibee]

I mean, sure. Can argue all day about Newell contract extension. It's not the reason were bottom, though. It's not even part of it.

The players that are contracted to the club are not the reason for us being bottom? Ok then. What is the reason? Perhaps you know something most of us don't?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I mean, sure. Can argue all day about Newell contract extension. It's not the reason were bottom, though. It's not even part of it.

I would actually say it is. What message does it send to the rest of the squad? This guy here, that barely digs out his team-mates, gets booked a lot and once in a blue moon can take the game by the scruff of the neck, he’s your leader, he’s the example setter.

I don’t place a massive amount of significance on the captains armband, in my opinion they should all be leaders. But when you’ve got a club, a culture and a squad that is completely devoid of any strong leadership, it’s a role you sure as hell need to get right.

[MWHIBBIES]

The players that are contracted to the club are not the reason for us being bottom? Ok then. What is the reason? Perhaps you know something most of us don't?

Newell would still be here new contract or not. So his new deal is irrelevant to our performance this season.

[Cooshed Kid]

One other thing about this coming from Gayle. He hasn't been with the club long but he has played at a higher league standard than the rest of our squad. He seems surprised by our culture and so I suspect he's encountered something he didn't see at Newcastle or elsewhere and thinks we are condoning behaviour which doesn't bring out the best in individuals or in the team. In short, he's politely implying we are unprofessional.

[Hibernian Verse]

I would actually say it is. What message does it send to the rest of the squad? This guy here, that barely digs out his team-mates, gets booked a lot and once in a blue moon can take the game by the scruff of the neck, he’s your leader, he’s the example setter.

I don’t place a massive amount of significance on the captains armband, in my opinion they should all be leaders. But when you’ve got a club, a culture and a squad that is completely devoid of any strong leadership, it’s a role you sure as hell need to get right.

Maybe they don't have the same opinion as people outside the bubble do?

[NC1875]

Who are his pals?

Newell plays because he is miles better than nmw, Campbell, jdh. Not because he is pals with gray.

🥱

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Maybe they don't have the same opinion as people outside the bubble do?

Therein lies the problem, in my opinion.

[Hibernian Verse]

Therein lies the problem, in my opinion.

I'm not completely in disagreement with you but which group of people are more likely to have an informed opinion - the playing staff or emotional fans?

[MWHIBBIES]

I would actually say it is. What message does it send to the rest of the squad? This guy here, that barely digs out his team-mates, gets booked a lot and once in a blue moon can take the game by the scruff of the neck, he’s your leader, he’s the example setter.

I don’t place a massive amount of significance on the captains armband, in my opinion they should all be leaders. But when you’ve got a club, a culture and a squad that is completely devoid of any strong leadership, it’s a role you sure as hell need to get right.

You could put a bad spin on any Hibs captain if you do that. It's not a balanced outlook on Newell, who does plenty good things, and was good last season.

[NC1875]

I'm not completely in disagreement with you but which group of people are more likely to have an informed opinion - the playing staff or emotional fans?

Anyone with eyes can see his description of Newell is spot on. As for the informed opinion, did you read Gayles comments ? Someone training with Newell every day. Saying we are too nice, not digging each other out.

That should start with the captain.

[MWHIBBIES]

Anyone with eyes can see his description of Newell is spot on. As for the informed opinion, did you read Gayles comments ? Someone training with Newell every day. Saying we are too nice, not digging each other out.

That should start with the captain.

It's not spot on. It's purely negative

Pat Stanton must've been too nice when we lost 18 goals in 3 cup finals. He wasn't digging his mates out that day.

See, you can do it for anyone.

[Forza Fred]

We are as soft as putty and the club culture is one of meek acceptance.

Until we target that we will continue to struggle.

[B.H.F.C]

It's not spot on. It's purely negative

Pat Stanton must've been too nice when we lost 18 goals in 3 cup finals. He wasn't digging his mates out that day.

See, you can do it for anyone.

You can but you look a bit stupid doing so.

[NC1875]

It's not spot on. It's purely negative

Pat Stanton must've been too nice when we lost 18 goals in 3 cup finals. He wasn't digging his mates out that day.

See, you can do it for anyone.

So Joe Newell who turns up once every few weeks is the one setting the example, no wonder the rest of them are half asleep most weeks.

Your defence of him is admirable, I’ll give you that.

But if you think the guy was good last season when he was our main midfielder in a season we were absolute garbage then I’ll leave you to it.

Crap in 22/23, crap last season, bottom of the league this season.

Nothing to do with super joe though.

[patstanton70]

Be interested to hear about a single occasion where a manager naming specific players in public has led to a better outcome.

It's what he is saying to them in private that counts.

Lennon after the 1-1 at Raith Rovers a few days before the cup replay with Hearts. Think that was very specific circumstances mind.

[MWHIBBIES]

So Joe Newell who turns up once every few weeks is the one setting the example, no wonder the rest of them are half asleep most weeks.

Your defence of him is admirable, I’ll give you that.

But if you think the guy was good last season when he was our main midfielder in a season we were absolute garbage then I’ll leave you to it.

Crap in 22/23, crap last season, bottom of the league this season.

Nothing to do with super joe though.

I didn't say nothing to do with super Joe.

He is not responsible for his team mates crap performances. Only captain in my 14 years on here I've seen get blamed for everyone else being ***** too.

I do think he was good, yes. I am able to separate a players invididual performances from our teams final standing, though.

[He's here!]

It's not spot on. It's purely negative

Pat Stanton must've been too nice when we lost 18 goals in 3 cup finals. He wasn't digging his mates out that day.

See, you can do it for anyone.

Being too quiet as captain actually WAS something some of Stanton's team-mates said about him (if you watch the Turnbull's Tornadoes documentary that came out yonks ago). In fact his autobiography was called The Quiet Man. However, he was such a terrific player that leading by example was largely enough to help a great team record many cracking results. Those Celtic finals were unfortunate, the first one coming before the Tornadoes came together and the third one as they started to unravel a bit, but it was largely a case of Hibs too often coming up against the one side which was simply even better than they were. They did manage to beat them in the League Cup final and two Drybrough Cup finals so it wasn't all one way, although it would have been nice if they could once or twice have come up against another team. They'd have beaten anyone else, including Rangers.

Newell seems a lovely bloke, clearly passionate about the club, but when you bring someone like Stanton into the conversation it illustrates just how low our standards are right now.

[NC1875]

I didn't say nothing to do with super Joe.

He is not responsible for his team mates crap performances. Only captain in my 14 years on here I've seen get blamed for everyone else being ***** too.

I do think he was good, yes. I am able to separate a players invididual performances from our teams final standing, though.

So do you think he’s been good this season ? He’s been made captain. Him and Gray should be the ones driving standards.

Newell turns up once a month if we’re lucky, what does that say to the rest of them?

We’re bottom of the league.

Grays first mistake was making him captain and lose on Saturday, a game our captain has got himself suspended for and Gray should be out the door.

Newell seeing off another manager 👏🏼

[Pedantic_Hibee]

I'm not completely in disagreement with you but which group of people are more likely to have an informed opinion - the playing staff or emotional fans?

Unfortunately HV, based on what we’ve been subjected to this season, I would suspect the emotional fans are bang on the money here.

And I’m well aware my head has completely gone on here in the past 48 hours 😂

[NC1875]

Unfortunately HV, based on what we’ve been subjected to this season, I would suspect the emotional fans are bang on the money here.

And I’m well aware my head has completely gone on here in the past 48 hours 😂

It’s like when some of us were getting “emotional” about the lack of signings earlier in the window.

We were all being told the usual “good players became available later in the window”

“We’ve got plenty time, everything will be fine”

A blind man could see we were underprepared and nothing would change.

Some people just refuse to see what’s right in front of there eyes

[He's here!]

I hope you aren't going to spend the whole week telling us all how we have no chance whatsoever at home against a team with the same amount of points as us.

We don't have no chance whatsoever, of course not. I also hadn't been aware Hearts have a European game on Thursday, so that may or may not work in our favour. However, after the weekend Hearts have the momentum as well as a vastly superior derby record, while it's hard to imagine the current Hibs team showing the mettle required to tough this one out. We just look far too fragile. A Hearts win seems the most likely outcome right now.

[MWHIBBIES]

So do you think he’s been good this season ? He’s been made captain. Him and Gray should be the ones driving standards.

Newell turns up once a month if we’re lucky, what does that say to the rest of them?

We’re bottom of the league.

Grays first mistake was making him captain and lose on Saturday, a game our captain has got himself suspended for and Gray should be out the door.

Newell seeing off another manager 👏🏼

I don't think he's been good this season no, no one has.

Games on Sunday.

[flash]

We don't have no chance whatsoever, of course not. I also hadn't been aware Hearts have a European game on Thursday, so that may or may not work in our favour. However, after the weekend Hearts have the momentum as well as a vastly superior derby record, while it's hard to imagine the current Hibs team showing the mettle required to tough this one out. We just look far too fragile. A Hearts win seems the most likely outcome right now.

Allow yourself to dream and throw off the shackles of negativity and pessimism.

The worst that can happen is what you are already resigned to anyway.

FTH.

[blackpoolhibs]

Be interested to hear about a single occasion where a manager naming specific players in public has led to a better outcome.

It's what he is saying to them in private that counts.

I dont think it matters what he says in public, he's never going to slaughter them there, but what matters is his actions.

We all thought he'd change the way the club was going, we all thought he could see we were a soft touch at the back and in goals, but has brought in a keeper nobody could really have researched as he's hardly played, then brought an understudy in who's quite clearly crap.

A ridiculous couple of decisions.

Full backs are weak, have been for ages, yet we get a last minute left back in and no right back.

Centre backs were recruited, the jury is out on them, and we currently sit bottom of the table, who brought them in?

We needed the back 4 and keeper strengthened, he's not done that at all, we are weaker.

Maybe Gayle is right, i dont know, but what is clear is Gray knew what was needed, and has failed to do it.

[flash]

I dont think it matters what he says in public, he's never going to slaughter them there, but what matters is his actions.

We all thought he'd change the way the club was going, we all thought he could see we were a soft touch at the back and in goals, but has brought in a keeper nobody could really have researched as he's hardly played, then brought an understudy in who's quite clearly crap.

A ridiculous couple of decisions.

Full backs are weak, have been for ages, yet we get a last minute left back in and no right back.

Centre backs were recruited, the jury is out on them, and we currently sit bottom of the table, who brought them in?

We needed the back 4 and keeper strengthened, he's no done that at all, we are weaker.

Maybe Gayle is right, i dont know, but what is clear is Gray knew what was needed, and has failed to do it.

Can't argue with that particularly the part about our goalkeeping recruitment.

[Murphys Touch]

Listen, Joe Newell is an above average player compared to the rest of the midfielders at the club.

I don't think anyone is arguing THAT point but more the "Joe Newell situation" rather than the individual.

Someone that has been part of constant failure at the club, making numerous individual errors as well as poor performances. How that related to an extended contract and captaincy is the issue and is part of the overall dire culture, atmosphere and overall performance.

We have had 2 directors of football in 12 months, a technical director, a director of football operations, various experienced board members, numerous managers, international players, club legends and its taken one older premier league player (could throw in ALF to this too) 2 weeks to call out there is absolutely no professional accountability in the building!

[blackpoolhibs]

Listen, Joe Newell is an above average player compared to the rest of the midfielders at the club.

I don't think anyone is arguing THAT point but more the "Joe Newell situation" rather than the individual.

Someone that has been part of constant failure at the club, making numerous individual errors as well as poor performances. How that related to an extended contract and captaincy is the issue and is part of the overall dire culture, atmosphere and overall performance.

We have had 2 directors of football in 12 months, a technical director, a director of football operations, various experienced board members, numerous managers, international players, club legends and its taken one older premier league player (could throw in ALF to this too) 2 weeks to call out there is absolutely no professional accountability in the building!

I would, he's an average player most of the time alongside a plethera of average players. He's also a poor player a lot of the time with the odd very good performance that are easily forgettable over the course of his time at the club.

[Ozyhibby]

Whatever you think of Newell either way, his new contract was a dreadful decision. And that’s on Gray.


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[Murphys Touch]

I would, he's an average player most of the time alongside a plethera of average players. He's also a poor player a lot of the time with the odd very good performance that are easily forgettable over the course of his time at the club.
Aww I agree - I was comparing that to our dire squad

[hibee-boys]

Whatever you think of Newell either way, his new contract was a dreadful decision. And that’s on Gray.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wasn’t against offering Joe a new contract but 3 years was ridiculous.

[He's here!]

Allow yourself to dream and throw off the shackles of negativity and pessimism.

The worst that can happen is what you are already resigned to anyway.

FTH.

https://www.tiktok.com/@quotelectures/video/7213846259608636714?lang=en

Tends to be the safest approach to supporting Hibs these days :wink:

[GreenCastle]

Whatever you think of Newell either way, his new contract was a dreadful decision. And that’s on Gray.


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The thought of Newell being in our midfield for 3 years is not good.

Surely he won’t be captain for this time too.

He isn’t captain material and if we are ever to progress this also needs addressed.

This maybe a white elephant with the staff and management but I would find a new captain ASAP in January.

I would also be still looking to sell Newell for his sake and the for the club to progress.

Our best performance (not result) of the season was away to Rangers - no Newell - we looked like a team and other players stepped it up. He’s Liam Craig part 2 and slows everything down.

[JimBHibees]

Be interested to hear about a single occasion where a manager naming specific players in public has led to a better outcome.

It's what he is saying to them in private that counts.

Absolutely

[J-C]

We don't have no chance whatsoever, of course not. I also hadn't been aware Hearts have a European game on Thursday, so that may or may not work in our favour. However, after the weekend Hearts have the momentum as well as a vastly superior derby record, while it's hard to imagine the current Hibs team showing the mettle required to tough this one out. We just look far too fragile. A Hearts win seems the most likely outcome right now.
And you'll be ecstatic at that outcome.

[Springbank]

Fwiw I think Newell's absence gives us a boost for Sunday

It's no surprise to me that someone like Dylan Vente found the goals dried up when he was stuck playing in front of the slowest & most pedantic midfield in the league

Newell gets the ball from CB, passes it back.

Newell gets ball back from CB, has a look around, passes to full back, but not into space, so it goes back to the CB

By now the opposition have had 10-15 seconds to get into shape

Cue Newell looking frustrated and surprised that there aren't any forward passes on any more (and looking at the above, why would that be Joe?)

That's actually about a lack of bravery in possession - too safe, too nice, too meek, nobody taking it on the half turn or playing a 1-2 to get out of the press

As the game at Ibrox showed, we look a lot more dangerous when Triantis and Kwon are in the pocket, and the ball sometimes moves forward...

[Cooshed Kid]

And you'll be ecstatic at that outcome.

No he won't. His observations are fair and reasonable. None of us want it to be the case but it is. Hibsing it is a reality and it's worse than ever. It used to be only on big occasions. Now it's a weekly event. The club needs a shake-up equivalent to a volcanic eruption, but with a more positive outcome.

[flash]

No he won't. His observations are fair and reasonable. None of us want it to be the case but it is. Hibsing it is a reality and it's worse than ever. It used to be only on big occasions. Now it's a weekly event. The club needs a shake-up equivalent to a volcanic eruption, but with a more positive outcome.

"Hibsing it". You know where you can ram that.

[jacomo]

I mean, sure. Can argue all day about Newell contract extension. It's not the reason were bottom, though. It's not even part of it.


I know you’re a big fan, and fair enough, but he’s a senior member of the squad. Our lack of results are at least partly his responsibility.

[jacomo]

No he won't. His observations are fair and reasonable. None of us want it to be the case but it is. Hibsing it is a reality and it's worse than ever. It used to be only on big occasions. Now it's a weekly event. The club needs a shake-up equivalent to a volcanic eruption, but with a more positive outcome.


We can start by ripping Hearts a new fault line.

[Hiber-nation]

"Hibsing it". You know where you can ram that.

Aye another one of these posters who seemingly never noticed us "Hibsing it" on 21/5/16.

[Pagan Hibernia]

We don't have no chance whatsoever, of course not. I also hadn't been aware Hearts have a European game on Thursday, so that may or may not work in our favour. However, after the weekend Hearts have the momentum as well as a vastly superior derby record, while it's hard to imagine the current Hibs team showing the mettle required to tough this one out. We just look far too fragile. A Hearts win seems the most likely outcome right now.

What has Hearts' historical derby record got to do with this Sunday's game? They also haven't won too many of them recently.

[hibee-boys]

Aye another one of these posters who seemingly never noticed us "Hibsing it" on 21/5/16.

I hate that phrase as much as the next Hibs fan but looking through our league results this season, and the manner in which we’ve managed to drop points late in the game, we’re certainly not helping to dispel that accusation.

[Cooshed Kid]

Aye another one of these posters who seemingly never noticed us "Hibsing it" on 21/5/16.

You're the same age as me, mate. If you haven't noticed that we have found a way of shooting ourselves in the foot every bloody week these days then you're not paying attention. Maybe take some Ginkgo Biloba. The Cup Final was over 8 years ago. A wonderful day. It does not make up for current failings which are mounting. When Hibsing it was coined it was a calculated insult but it has become our reality. Accept it, own it, change it and ensure it never happens again. Denying that we have a very special way of needlessly f****** up is just sticking your head in the sand.

[flash]

You're the same age as me, mate. If you haven't noticed that we have found a way of shooting ourselves in the foot every bloody week these days then you're not paying attention. Maybe take some Ginkgo Biloba. The Cup Final was over 8 years ago. A wonderful day. It does not make up for current failings which are mounting. When Hibsing it was coined it was a calculated insult but it has become our reality. Accept it, own it, change it and ensure it never happens again. Denying that we have a very special way of needlessly f****** up is just sticking your head in the sand.
Maybe we should all start singing Hibs are falling apart as well.

[Hiber-nation]

You're the same age as me, mate. If you haven't noticed that we have found a way of shooting ourselves in the foot every bloody week these days then you're not paying attention. Maybe take some Ginkgo Biloba. The Cup Final was over 8 years ago. A wonderful day. It does not make up for current failings which are mounting. When Hibsing it was coined it was a calculated insult but it has become our reality. Accept it, own it, change it and ensure it never happens again. Denying that we have a very special way of needlessly f****** up is just sticking your head in the sand.

I've said on here plenty times that we're never far from a calamity at the moment but I've no idea how any Hibs supporter could use that phrase. Dreadful patter. The "own it" thing is a nonsense to me as well.

[silverhibee]

I would actually say it is. What message does it send to the rest of the squad? This guy here, that barely digs out his team-mates, gets booked a lot and once in a blue moon can take the game by the scruff of the neck, he’s your leader, he’s the example setter.

I don’t place a massive amount of significance on the captains armband, in my opinion they should all be leaders. But when you’ve got a club, a culture and a squad that is completely devoid of any strong leadership, it’s a role you sure as hell need to get right.

When Gray was asked about Newell’s sending off he bottled it to say anything bad about Joe, DG should have said it was a stupid tackle from Joe knowing he was on a yellow and now puts him out of the derby and I will put the cat amongst the pigeons and say did Joe know what he was doing on Saturday.

Triantis will come in for him at the weekend, he really needs to keep the head as well as he is partial to a lunge as well and the last thing we need is us going down to 10 men.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

When Gray was asked about Newell’s sending off he bottled it to say anything bad about Joe, DG should have said it was a stupid tackle from Joe knowing he was on a yellow and now puts him out of the derby and I will put the cat amongst the pigeons and say did Joe know what he was doing on Saturday.

Triantis will come in for him at the weekend, he really needs to keep the head as well as he is partial to a lunge as well and the last thing we need is us going down to 10 men.

I myself did wonder if Joe was at it on Saturday. Horrible to think like that but it did cross my mind.

[Nicho87]

Arguably or pretty confidently the midfield and lack of fixing it got the last two managers sacked

Newell, Campbell, Levitt, JDH, I’d even say moriah-Welsh are clearly not up to much.

The fact we scrambled around getting triantis in on the last day when it was clear 3 weeks earlier what was going to with mccowan is again another sign of how poor our club is run and don’t get the message.

I can’t believe our sole target for a permanent midfielder was one player.

Short term solutions always.

Gray will get himself sacked if he sticks to relying on established failures in the team

Campbell, Newell for me biggest offenders.

[MWHIBBIES]

I know you’re a big fan, and fair enough, but he’s a senior member of the squad. Our lack of results are at least partly his responsibility.

Absolutely. And that was the same before his contract. His contract is nothing to do with where we are.


I myself did wonder if Joe was at it on Saturday. Horrible to think like that but it did cross my mind.

You think he was purposely getting himself sent off? Ridiculous thing to think. Based on absolutely nothing. Pure nonsense.


Fwiw I think Newell's absence gives us a boost for Sunday

It's no surprise to me that someone like Dylan Vente found the goals dried up when he was stuck playing in front of the slowest & most pedantic midfield in the league

Newell gets the ball from CB, passes it back.

Newell gets ball back from CB, has a look around, passes to full back, but not into space, so it goes back to the CB

By now the opposition have had 10-15 seconds to get into shape

Cue Newell looking frustrated and surprised that there aren't any forward passes on any more (and looking at the above, why would that be Joe?)

That's actually about a lack of bravery in possession - too safe, too nice, too meek, nobody taking it on the half turn or playing a 1-2 to get out of the press

As the game at Ibrox showed, we look a lot more dangerous when Triantis and Kwon are in the pocket, and the ball sometimes moves forward...

The old Newell only passes backwards lie. Proven false many times. Some free kick he hit backwards for our equaliser.

[flash]

I myself did wonder if Joe was at it on Saturday. Horrible to think like that but it did cross my mind.

He took a heavy touch and went in too hard in an attempt to make up for it.

It was his first game after surgery and the manager should have replaced him before then as he was clearly running on empty.

To suggest any intent in getting sent off is bordering on outrageous.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Absolutely. And that was the same before his contract. His contract is nothing to do with where we are.



You think he was purposely getting himself sent off? Ridiculous thing to think. Based on absolutely nothing. Pure nonsense.



The old Newell only passes backwards lie. Proven false many times. Some free kick he hit backwards for our equaliser.

His contract might be nothing to do with where we are, but it, and the captaincy, shows that we reward mediocrity.

Yes, he probably has been our best midfielder over the last couple of years, but he’s nowhere near good enough and absolutely the opposite of what we need as a captain.

[MWHIBBIES]

His contract might be nothing to do with where we are, but it, and the captaincy, shows that we reward mediocrity.

Yes, he probably has been our best midfielder over the last couple of years, but he’s nowhere near good enough and absolutely the opposite of what we need as a captain.

That's fine. Who else could we have given captaincy to? Very few candidates. Gray, a good Hibs captain himself, chose Newell.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

That's fine. Who else could we have given captaincy to? Very few candidates. Gray, a good Hibs captain himself, chose Newell.

We could perhaps have signed one or two rather than Bursik or Nicky Cadden for example.

[Hiber-nation]

We could perhaps have signed one or two rather than Bursik or Nicky Cadden for example.

Come on, the Golden Quadrant are our leaders and we need to accept that. Why sign more?

[MWHIBBIES]

We could perhaps have signed one or two rather than Bursik or Nicky Cadden for example.

So really not rewarding mediocrity then, if we never had any better candidates.

Id love for us to go out and sign this amazing all action, ball winning, goal getting scruff off the neck grabbing, box to box, knows the Scottish game, forward passing, set piece master of a midfielder. More than anyone. But I don't feel any need to blame Newell for not being that.

He's the best we've got. I want rid of all the ones worse than him before I want rid of him.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

So really not rewarding mediocrity then, if we never had any better candidates.

Id love for us to go out and sign this amazing all action, ball winning, goal getting scruff off the neck grabbing, box to box, knows the Scottish game, forward passing, set piece master of a midfielder. More than anyone. But I don't feel any need to blame Newell for not being that.

He's the best we've got. I want rid of all the ones worse than him before I want rid of him.

I do appreciate what you’re saying, but for what could and should have been the breaking of a new dawn at Easter Road and a chance to say “the last few years have been horrendous, change starts now”, we go and reward a mainstay in our failures with a three year deal and the captaincy.

That doesn’t signal change and an almighty raising in standards, it signifies an acceptance of what has went on before. In fact it rewards it.

I’m not trying to go all out and blame Joe Newell for where we are, I’m suggesting it perfectly illustrates the culture of passive mediocrity that runs through this club from top to bottom.

[Bostonhibby]

Being too quiet as captain actually WAS something some of Stanton's team-mates said about him (if you watch the Turnbull's Tornadoes documentary that came out yonks ago). In fact his autobiography was called The Quiet Man. However, he was such a terrific player that leading by example was largely enough to help a great team record many cracking results. Those Celtic finals were unfortunate, the first one coming before the Tornadoes came together and the third one as they started to unravel a bit, but it was largely a case of Hibs too often coming up against the one side which was simply even better than they were. They did manage to beat them in the League Cup final and two Drybrough Cup finals so it wasn't all one way, although it would have been nice if they could once or twice have come up against another team. They'd have beaten anyone else, including Rangers.

Newell seems a lovely bloke, clearly passionate about the club, but when you bring someone like Stanton into the conversation it illustrates just how low our standards are right now.I know, from speaking to players from that team who were in themselves much respected and successful players that Pat Stanton was held in such high regard by them AND by the opposition that he effectively led by the example he set and the standard was set from there.

There's simply no comparison here as there's not many opponents quaking in their boots when faced with whatever it is trundles up to face them these days.

Gayle is spot on.

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[MWHIBBIES]

I do appreciate what you’re saying, but for what could and should have been the breaking of a new dawn at Easter Road and a chance to say “the last few years have been horrendous, change starts now”, we go and reward a mainstay in our failures with a three year deal and the captaincy.

That doesn’t signal change and an almighty raising in standards, it signifies an acceptance of what has went on before. In fact it rewards it.

I’m not trying to go all out and blame Joe Newell for where we are, I’m suggesting it perfectly illustrates the culture of passive mediocrity that runs through this club from top to bottom.

We rewarded another mainstay in that failure with the managers job. 4 management teams he's been part of. All 4 punted.

And a crap goalie of 2 years with a big shiny new job.

The problems aren't top to bottom. They are entirely and completely at the top. Ian Gordon is a useless, clueless ********.

There is no new dawn with him in charge.

[He's here!]

What has Hearts' historical derby record got to do with this Sunday's game? They also haven't won too many of them recently.

We've won one derby since 2019. Hearts have won seven.

Hearts' historical derby dominance weighs heavily on the fixture. It often gives them a mental edge IMHO.

[He's here!]

I hate that phrase as much as the next Hibs fan but looking through our league results this season, and the manner in which we’ve managed to drop points late in the game, we’re certainly not helping to dispel that accusation.

It was emphatically put to bed in 2016 because IIRC it stemmed from our century-plus failure to win the Scottish Cup. However, recent irritating attempts to revive it are, as you say, given mileage by the way we're contriving to lose games.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

We rewarded another mainstay in that failure with the managers job. 4 management teams he's been part of. All 4 punted.

And a crap goalie of 2 years with a big shiny new job.

The problems aren't top to bottom. They are entirely and completely at the top. Ian Gordon is a useless, clueless ********.

There is no new dawn with him in charge.

I’ve found myself agreeing with you all day and I’m not comfortable with this.

[Bostonhibby]

We rewarded another mainstay in that failure with the managers job. 4 management teams he's been part of. All 4 punted.

And a crap goalie of 2 years with a big shiny new job.

The problems aren't top to bottom. They are entirely and completely at the top. Ian Gordon is a useless, clueless ********.

There is no new dawn with him in charge.Yep, no arguments from me here.

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[wookie70]

He took a heavy touch and went in too hard in an attempt to make up for it.

It was his first game after surgery and the manager should have replaced him before then as he was clearly running on empty.

To suggest any intent in getting sent off is bordering on outrageous. Agree, if anything his gut reaction was to make up for the mistake. Not the brightest challenge but one you see in pretty much every match when you have a field full of players who are competitive by nature. He isn't having the best season but he is still way ahead of the vast majority of players we have signed in the last 5 years quite a few of whom could have came on to replace him as he tired if they weren't so far off the quality required

[theonlywayisup]

If someone is not pulling their weight, or obviously tiring sub them immediately.

Yet, some people think we should play Youan.

[Pagan Hibernia]

We've won one derby since 2019. Hearts have won seven.

Hearts' historical derby dominance weighs heavily on the fixture. It often gives them a mental edge IMHO.

They've only won one of the last five. As have we.

[Jones28]

They've only won one of the last five. As have we.

Come on man, our derby record is ****ing awful. Window dressing it like this is desperate.

[Hibiza]

Spot on Dwight ,so is David.

[Hibiza]

So nice we have a goalie who gives goals away.

[Pagan Hibernia]

Come on man, our derby record is ****ing awful. Window dressing it like this is desperate.

Historically yes, noone is denying that.

I'm arguing that Hearts beating us 20 or 30 or 40 times in the 1980s or the 1930s or even the 2010s shouldn't be a reason for us to sh*t ourselves this Sunday. The last few derbies have been pretty even (we outplayed them at tynecastle in the last one) and the league table currently has hearts 11th and us 12th. I just don't see why hearts should be considered big favourites for this match, especially with us at home. They haven't won a game away from home, domestically, for 6 months

[Bobby's Cinema]

He took a heavy touch and went in too hard in an attempt to make up for it.

It was his first game after surgery and the manager should have replaced him before then as he was clearly running on empty.

To suggest any intent in getting sent off is bordering on outrageous.
This thread has been an entertaining read :hilarious

[Chorley Hibee]

Historically yes, noone is denying that.

I'm arguing that Hearts beating us 20 or 30 or 40 times in the 1980s or the 1930s or even the 2010s shouldn't be a reason for us to sh*t ourselves this Sunday. The last few derbies have been pretty even (we outplayed them at tynecastle in the last one) and the league table currently has hearts 11th and us 12th. I just don't see why hearts should be considered big favourites for this match, especially with us at home. They haven't won a game away from home, domestically, for 6 months

That final sentence almost confirms a Hearts victory. 🙈

[Jones28]

Historically yes, noone is denying that.

I'm arguing that Hearts beating us 20 or 30 or 40 times in the 1980s or the 1930s or even the 2010s shouldn't be a reason for us to sh*t ourselves this Sunday. The last few derbies have been pretty even (we outplayed them at tynecastle in the last one) and the league table currently has hearts 11th and us 12th. I just don't see why hearts should be considered big favourites for this match, especially with us at home. They haven't won a game away from home, domestically, for 6 months

Because it doesn’t seem to matter how ***** they are, how good we are, how much we are “due” a win over them, 9 times out of 10 they will get the good fortune, the rub of the green, score the 40 yard screamer, a Hibs player will **** it up.

Form means nothing in derbies unless it’s us. If we’re pish we don’t win, if they’re pish they still could.

[JimBHibees]

No he won't. His observations are fair and reasonable. None of us want it to be the case but it is. Hibsing it is a reality and it's worse than ever. It used to be only on big occasions. Now it's a weekly event. The club needs a shake-up equivalent to a volcanic eruption, but with a more positive outcome.

They are nowhere near fair and reasonable

[MikeyS]

They are nowhere near fair and reasonable

That particular phrase stings and the reason it does is because other than the 2016 final it's an absolutely fair reflection of the truth.

[Ronniekirk]

The irony is we were told to trust the process and that they were looking at plsyets characters to make sure we had strong characters in the dressing room and now we find out eve
yone is too nice from a season pro who has been around and knows what he is talking about
I find it hard to trust anything now given the situation we are in

[Hibees1973]

The irony is we were told to trust the process and that they were looking at plsyets characters to make sure we had strong characters in the dressing room and now we find out eve
yone is too nice from a season pro who has been around and knows what he is talking about
I find it hard to trust anything now given the situation we are in

I think everyone on hibs.net (well most of us) realised a while ago the The Golden Quadrant spout bull.

[MikeyS]

The irony is we were told to trust the process and that they were looking at plsyets characters to make sure we had strong characters in the dressing room and now we find out eve
yone is too nice from a season pro who has been around and knows what he is talking about
I find it hard to trust anything now given the situation we are in

The last manager worth listening to was Jack Ross, the others since have all been slavers or dullards not worth listening too. I'll remove DG from that list as he actually comes across as genuine it's just he doesn't seem able to put in to practice what he preaches.

[Not In The Know]

We don't have no chance whatsoever, of course not. I also hadn't been aware Hearts have a European game on Thursday, so that may or may not work in our favour. However, after the weekend Hearts have the momentum as well as a vastly superior derby record, while it's hard to imagine the current Hibs team showing the mettle required to tough this one out. We just look far too fragile. A Hearts win seems the most likely outcome right now.


You really are having fun with this at the moment...

At least have the balls to change your profile to a Hearts one...

[Ozyhibby]

The last manager worth listening to was Jack Ross, the others since have all been slavers or dullards not worth listening too. I'll remove DG from that list as he actually comes across as genuine it's just he doesn't seem able to put in to practice what he preaches.

Putting into practice what a manager preaches is the only part of the job that counts. The rest is all BS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RIP]

It’s like when some of us were getting “emotional” about the lack of signings earlier in the window.

We were all being told the usual “good players became available later in the window”

“We’ve got plenty time, everything will be fine”

A blind man could see we were underprepared and nothing would change.

Some people just refuse to see what’s right in front of there eyes

Another Hibs.net myth.

"There were loads of people saying everything was going to be OK this season, but I, the Oracle of football wisdom, could see that everything was going to go pear shaped."

Aye, awright then, here's yer gold medal! 😁

[Bobby's Cinema]

Another Hibs.net myth.

"There were loads of people saying everything was going to be OK this season, but I, the Oracle of football wisdom, could see that everything was going to go pear shaped."

Aye, awright then, here's yer gold medal! 😁
I think we all see and feel similar things.

But the difference is some want to still back with the club whether convinced or unconvinced in the strategy. Because we get enough of a bashing in the media without bashing our own club its draining. 'Slapstick Hibs' the latest match report. Giggling Richard Gordon waiting to talk about the game on the radio.

While others want to run around saying we are clueless and everything is **** from the off.

[flash]

The last manager worth listening to was Jack Ross, the others since have all been slavers or dullards not worth listening too. I'll remove DG from that list as he actually comes across as genuine it's just he doesn't seem able to put in to practice what he preaches.

Managers all talk a pile of pish it's just nobody cares when you are winning.

[Springbank]

Absolutely. And that was the same before his contract. His contract is nothing to do with where we are.



You think he was purposely getting himself sent off? Ridiculous thing to think. Based on absolutely nothing. Pure nonsense.



The old Newell only passes backwards lie. Proven false many times. Some free kick he hit backwards for our equaliser.

You need help my friend

You are incapable of seeing any criticism of the no11

[Jones28]

You need help my friend

You are incapable of seeing any criticism of the no11

Others are incapable of doing anything but.

[MWHIBBIES]

You need help my friend

You are incapable of seeing any criticism of the no11

Read my posts. I was one of the first to criticise him after Saturday. I know fine well he has flaws.

I just don't make up utter rubbish like he doesn't pass forward, which is very easily proven wrong.

[Hibernian Verse]

Read my posts. I was one of the first to criticise him after Saturday. I know fine well he has flaws.

I just don't make up utter rubbish like he doesn't pass forward, which is very easily proven wrong.

Or that he got himself sent off to miss the Derby.

[blackpoolhibs]

Managers all talk a pile of pish it's just nobody cares when you are winning.
Spot on, i barely listen these days, in fact i've not bothered because i could probably tell you what they say word for word.

Ross did well for us under the last regime, but as soon as the Gordons took over he was doomed, and in hindsight, those who came after him were the same.

Gray might be the best manager we could have got, but does anyone really think he can succeed under this lot?

[MWHIBBIES]

Or that he got himself sent off to miss the Derby.

Indeed, which is just vile to say about one of our players.