Two Strikers

[Donegal Hibby]

I noticed there’s been a fair bit of talk about going with two strikers upfront and read this with Gray saying we might go with two as well… just wondering what your thoughts are on it formation wise , who plays etc if we do? ….

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/the-hibs-tactical-tweak-considered-by-david-gray-to-give-more-attacking-threat/

[easty]

I'd be interested to see if it would work with Gayle playing off Myko, but it'd clearly leave us short in the middle of the park and we're hardly looking great there as it is.

If it's just going to be Campbell or Rudi "playing up front" then it's a no really a change. That's just describing what we have now differently.

[MWHIBBIES]

Makes very little difference imo. 95% about how Hibs execute things.

[sauzeelegod]

A diamond would be nice

[Donegal Hibby]

I'd be interested to see if it would work with Gayle playing off Myko, but it'd clearly leave us short in the middle of the park and we're hardly looking great there as it is.

If it's just going to be Campbell or Rudi "playing up front" then it's a no really a change. That's just describing what we have now differently.

I’d imagine he’d go with Myko and Gayle with Campbell as an option from the bench , Rudi I think hasn’t really had any impact on games as he has when playing LW , probably due to him getting more time and space there . It’s a pity we don’t have Bowie as him and Myko would be a handful for any defence…
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/crocked-hibs-striker-injury-update-leading-specialist-100-per-cent-verdict-ex-fulham-forward-4813420

[Nutmegged]

I'd be interested to see if it would work with Gayle playing off Myko, but it'd clearly leave us short in the middle of the park and we're hardly looking great there as it is.

If it's just going to be Campbell or Rudi "playing up front" then it's a no really a change. That's just describing what we have now differently.

It's been so long since two strikers was the norm, that people tend to forget how it actually worked, one of the two would normally be considered the link up man,and he'd essentially be a number 10 that played closer to the striker than the CM's, depending on what side the ball was on, the winger/wide midfielder on the opposite side would tuck in to make a middle 3. Too many people have convinced themselves that 442 makes you vulnerable to anyone playing between the lines, but when done right, and everyone knows their role, it's one of the most fluent formations, it can quickly change into 424, 4231, 433 and 451, depending how games are going, the best thing about Leicester winning the League was the fact they played 442 doing it.

Kids in the past 20 years have had all that natural positional sense coached out of them at the carbon copy academies up and down the country, it's soul destroying.

[Brightside]

its not about having 2 strikers, its ensuring we have enough people in the box when we get into the final 3rd. Its all just too slow right now.

[SeanWilson]

A diamond would be nice

This made me smile. A diamond? Why?

Two strikers just doesn't really exist anymore, due to most teams playing an attacking 3 or a false 9.

In any case, we currently don't have one striker, never mind two.

[CockneyRebel]

I noticed there’s been a fair bit of talk about going with two strikers upfront and read this with Gray saying we might go with two as well… just wondering what your thoughts are on it formation wise , who plays etc if we do? ….

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/the-hibs-tactical-tweak-considered-by-david-gray-to-give-more-attacking-threat/

Plenty of other teams do ok with one up top. It's the level of support the team gives that striker that makes the difference in how effective they are.

[Centre Hawf]

If we go two up top you need to go 3-5-2 as we're unlikely to be good enough to play 442.

[Iain G]

A diamond would be nice

Diamonds in the team,
That is what we want,
Campbell on the bench,
How can we go wrong?

[Smartie]

Not saying it can't be done, as it is very much the preferred formation these days and not all teams are crap...

But can anyone really point to a time when Hibs have done 433 / 451 justice? Most of my time watching Hibs (probably started paying attention early 90s)has consisted of us having 2 up front and us doing well or a variation on us struggling to get to grips with this formation? Isolated central strikers, supply to wide players choked off, fullbacks struggling defensively, vulnerability to cross balls, being dominated in the centre of midfield...

Was it maybe ok for a while when we had Fletch, O'Connor, Riordan, Benji and co, around the Mowbray / Collins time?

You've even got the likes of Hecky, who by all available evidence appears to be a very competent coach, struggle badly to do anything with it with us.

It just seems to me... that we are absolutely crap at implementing it properly, for whatever reason.

[Baldy Foghorn]

Diamonds in the team,
That is what we want,
Campbell on the bench,
How can we go wrong?

Doesn't rhyme

[Springbank]

A thing we noticed on Saturday was Motherwell's striker was constantly on the move - his movement was much better than Kukharevych's

I think Big Myko is magic and want him to knock it out the park here this season - but he could improve his movement, on Saturday's evidence.

[Donegal Hibby]

Plenty of other teams do ok with one up top. It's the level of support the team gives that striker that makes the difference in how effective they are.

Fair enough point which could be why we are lacking in killing teams off or scoring when we are on top / dominating games … Aberdeen who are flying have had I make it 83 shots with 24 on target in their 7 league games while we have had 93 with 23 on target which isn’t bad considering we have played both the OF teams and they haven’t… big difference is though they have scored 15 to our 6 .

[Iain G]

Doesn't rhyme

Sorry Mr Shakespeare!

[HarpOnHibee]

Fair enough point which could be why we are lacking in killing teams off or scoring when we are on top / dominating games … Aberdeen who are flying have had I make it 83 shots with 24 on target in there 7 league games while we have had 93 with 23 on target which isn’t bad considering we have played both the OF teams and they haven’t… big difference is though they have scored 15 to our 6 .

They create better chances, that's the difference. We have too many pot shots that have a low chance of being on target and an even lower chance of beating the goalkeeper. That's because our attacking play is too slow. We spend too much time spreading the ball around and allowing the opposition time to organize themselves. This prevents us from carving them open, resulting in too many half chances that have a very low goal return ratio. The problem is obvious but is consistently overlooked.

[MWHIBBIES]

They create better chances, that's the difference. We have too many pot shots that have a low chance of being on target and an even lower chance of beating the goalkeeper. That's because our attacking play is too slow. We spend too much time spreading the ball around and allowing the opposition time to organize themselves. This prevents us from carving them open, resulting in too many half chances that have a very low goal return ratio. The problem is obvious but is consistently overlooked.

Vente missed sitter opening day. Aberdeen haven't created an easier chance than that, no one has. Boyle missed a 1 on 1 that day too.

Cadden missed a 1 on 1 on Saturday. We missed a penalty at Ibrox. Myko missed a header against St Johnstone he should've scored. That's 5 key chances, off the top of my head. We're feeling very different about Hibs if those go in.

[HarpOnHibee]

Vente missed sitter opening day. Aberdeen haven't created an easier chance than that, no one has. Boyle missed a 1 on 1 that day too.

Cadden missed a 1 on 1 on Saturday. We missed a penalty at Ibrox. Myko missed a header against St Johnstone he should've scored. That's 5 key chances, off the top of my head. We're feeling very different about Hibs if those go in.

Well they didn't go in, so we're not feeling different. It's always should've, could've, would've with us. We ramble on about match statistics and lament our lack of luck season after season, forever overlooking the underlining causes. I think most fans are beyond fed up with it at this point.

[Tyler Durden]

They create better chances, that's the difference. We have too many pot shots that have a low chance of being on target and an even lower chance of beating the goalkeeper. That's because our attacking play is too slow. We spend too much time spreading the ball around and allowing the opposition time to organize themselves. This prevents us from carving them open, resulting in too many half chances that have a very low goal return ratio. The problem is obvious but is consistently overlooked.

I agree with the part in bold. But I don't think Aberdeen are creating better chances. Look at their game vs Hearts and they've got an own goal and another scored from outside the box. The 3rd goal is the only actual good chance.

I know some folk don't want to hear about xG but the stats are available here - https://footystats.org/scotland/premiership/xg

It shows that Hibs have created an average of 1.32 goals per game but only scored 0.86. Aberdeen are creating 1.19 but scoring 2.14. Only Celtic are outperforming their xG more than Aberdeen.

In simple terms Aberdeen have been pretty lucky. I wouldn't go so far as to say Hibs have been unlucky but we've created some great chances and our finishing has not been good enough. Certainly in the last 2 games, we've created loads of chances and come away with one goal.

[ancient hibee]

Well they didn't go in, so we're not feeling different. It's always should've, could've, would've with us. We ramble on about match statistics and lament our lack of luck season after season, forever overlooking the underlining causes. I think most fans are beyond fed up with it at this point.t

All true but the point is that it’s not about systems it’s about players not being good enough.

[Donegal Hibby]

They create better chances, that's the difference. We have too many pot shots that have a low chance of being on target and an even lower chance of beating the goalkeeper. That's because our attacking play is too slow. We spend too much time spreading the ball around and allowing the opposition time to organize themselves. This prevents us from carving them open, resulting in too many half chances that have a very low goal return ratio. The problem is obvious but is consistently overlooked.

Is our attacking play not more direct in we get the ball forward quicker now compared to what it was like with Monty when we use to play it about at the back trying to draw the opposition onto us ?

[wookie70]

I’d imagine he’d go with Myko and Gayle with Campbell as an option from the bench , Rudi I think hasn’t really had any impact on games as he has when playing LW , probably due to him getting more time and space there . It’s a pity we don’t have Bowie as him and Myko would be a handful for any defence…
https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/crocked-hibs-striker-injury-update-leading-specialist-100-per-cent-verdict-ex-fulham-forward-4813420

That was where I looked when I saw the comment you were replying to. My eyes said we were creating plenty of chances just not putting them away and those stats would confirm that. If creating and giving up chances played out into results we should be doing reasonably well sitting comfortably in the top 3 or 4. The issue is we miss to many from the chances we create and lose too many goals from the chances we give up. Aberdeen have not created as many chances as us and have given the opposition more chances and have full points. That is fine margins and where quality and confidence really begin to show. On these stats we are close to doing pretty well but the gap between stats and reality is massive and you need that little rub of the green sometimes. We hardly ever get that.

[Bridge hibs]

Sorry Mr Shakespeare!

He's Shakespeares Sister

[Baldy Foghorn]

Sorry Mr Shakespeare!

:greengrin

[HoboHarry]

He's Shakespeares Sister

He can Stay. I Don't Care.

[Bobby's Cinema]

I agree with the part in bold. But I don't think Aberdeen are creating better chances. Look at their game vs Hearts and they've got an own goal and another scored from outside the box. The 3rd goal is the only actual good chance.

I know some folk don't want to hear about xG but the stats are available here - https://footystats.org/scotland/premiership/xg

It shows that Hibs have created an average of 1.32 goals per game but only scored 0.86. Aberdeen are creating 1.19 but scoring 2.14. Only Celtic are outperforming their xG more than Aberdeen.

In simple terms Aberdeen have been pretty lucky. I wouldn't go so far as to say Hibs have been unlucky but we've created some great chances and our finishing has not been good enough. Certainly in the last 2 games, we've created loads of chances and come away with one goal.
So we score less than we should and concede more than we should - great :greengrin

[Hibs4185]

I’m not one who analyses formations and goes into great detail as I don’t profess to be a football genius however I’ve always believed Hibs should be set up to attack and score goals.

We have the 4th or 5th biggest budget and better quality players than most of the league.

Different against rangers and Celtic but against the rest of the league, especially at Easter Road we should be playing two up front supported by attacking wingers and midfielders.

[sauzee1989]

Would try anything at this stage. Embarrassing a club like us haven’t won 2 league games in a row for ten months

[Smartie]

A thing we noticed on Saturday was Motherwell's striker was constantly on the move - his movement was much better than Kukharevych's

I think Big Myko is magic and want him to knock it out the park here this season - but he could improve his movement, on Saturday's evidence.

It might depend on where the movement takes him.

It was particularly prevalent at times with a Nisbet when you’d often see the central striker drop deep to help create, and free a winger with the ball out wide, further up the park.

When the cross comes in or the opportunity to cross presents itself… there’s nobody anywhere near the box to get on the end of the cross. This is particularly prevalent with Boyle who gets forward at a pace that makes it hard at times for other players to keep up with him.

A defence of Campbell is that he’s one of few players from midfield who at times will get forward in situations like this, something he admittedly hasn’t done much lately.

So by being static, Myko might actually end up being an option in the box for these crosses, albeit it might make it harder for us to get the wide players played in.

[A Hi-Bee]

2 ****in strikers we cannie even manage one.

[Hibs3-2]

Bursik
Ekpiteta ohora iresdale
cadden kwon triantis cadden
Newell/hoilett
Myko gayle


Could work?

[Skol]

We could do with a Darren Jackson for that second striker role.

[RIP]

its not about having 2 strikers, its ensuring we have enough people in the box when we get into the final 3rd. Its all just too slow right now.

This

Watched Sportscene on Saturday and nearly every team who scored did so with 4, 5 or 6 in the box.

At almost every attack v Motherwell we had our players on the touchline or 30 yards from the opposition keeper. Maximum one or two in the box.

Slow build up and ineffective cross balls. Johnson, Monty, Gray. Different Head Coach, different players, same formation and tactics.

Cowardly tactics.

[Nutmegged]

We could do with a Darren Jackson for that second striker role.


For whatever reason, we just don't produce guys like Jackson anymore, there was always a decent bunch of Scottish strikers, they might not have been International standard but they were always good enough for our top flight, Billy Dodds, Stevie Crawford, Paul Wright, Robbie Winters, Duncan Shearer and our own Darren Jackson and Keith Wright, we just don't produce reasonably competent Scottish strikers these days. That's no forgetting the obvious two, Deeks and Gaz, was just focusing on guys from action Jackson's era

[Donegal Hibby]

This

Watched Sportscene on Saturday and nearly every team who scored did so with 4, 5 or 6 in the box.

At almost every attack v Motherwell we had our players on the touchline or 30 yards from the opposition keeper. Maximum one or two in the box.

Slow build up and ineffective cross balls. Johnson, Monty, Gray. Different Head Coach, different players, same formation and tactics.

Cowardly tactics.

Really don’t agree with this in when Triantis was first booked we had four in the box , 3 when Myko nearly scored because Obita I think put in an excellent early ball into the box and Hoilett robbed the Motherwell player and there was nothing slow about the end result …

LJ , Monty and Gray’s formations and tactics are nothing a like IMO …

Certainly didn’t think we had cowardly tactics at Ibrox in both teams had 18 shots at goal ! .

[Nutmegged]

Gray isn't really the problem, it's the distinct lack of quality throughout the squad that's the real issue.

[andrew70]

https://open.substack.com/pub/andrewjeffrey/p/twos-plenty?r=2f20qe&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true

A look at whether we should go two up. The requirement of a great change to our tactics should we do so.

[Donegal Hibby]

That was where I looked when I saw the comment you were replying to. My eyes said we were creating plenty of chances just not putting them away and those stats would confirm that. If creating and giving up chances played out into results we should be doing reasonably well sitting comfortably in the top 3 or 4. The issue is we miss to many from the chances we create and lose too many goals from the chances we give up. Aberdeen have not created as many chances as us and have given the opposition more chances and have full points. That is fine margins and where quality and confidence really begin to show. On these stats we are close to doing pretty well but the gap between stats and reality is massive and you need that little rub of the green sometimes. We hardly ever get that.

Apart from the St mirren game were we collapsed in the others I don’t think we have been to bad in even if we haven’t always got the results we wanted ….the Celtic game we were limited to only 4 shots in with none on target means we have had 89 shots with 23 on target in 6 games ….

Which would suggest there’s hope there , be much worse if we weren’t having shots… St Johnstone game we should have probably scored another two and Motherwell we should have been a couple of goals up …

One thing that has been killing us is players making bad mistakes like Obita giving away a penalty , O’ Hora against Dundee which were two mistakes that cost us four points which would have made a difference.

I don’t think there’s one game maybe apart from the St Johnstone one where we haven’t made a mistake which we have mostly been punished for. I do wonder if there is a confidence issue within the team at the moment too and as you say an element of not getting a rub of the green .

[A Hi-Bee]

Nisbet, called up by Scotland to replace the Heid, many did not want him back at Hibs, the guy is a goalscorer who could play one up and still make and score goals. No good enough for us eh1 Aye right.
:aok:

[snedzuk]

For whatever reason, we just don't produce guys like Jackson anymore, there was always a decent bunch of Scottish strikers, they might not have been International standard but they were always good enough for our top flight, Billy Dodds, Stevie Crawford, Paul Wright, Robbie Winters, Duncan Shearer and our own Darren Jackson and Keith Wright, we just don't produce reasonably competent Scottish strikers these days. That's no forgetting the obvious two, Deeks and Gaz, was just focusing on guys from action Jackson's era

I wouldn't be greedy and ask for a Gordon and O Rourke, but rarely mentioned on here, I'd settle for a Gordon Durie and Steve Cowan.

[Smartie]

Nisbet, called up by Scotland to replace the Heid, many did not want him back at Hibs, the guy is a goalscorer who could play one up and still make and score goals. No good enough for us eh1 Aye right.
:aok:

Whilst he definitely did well up front on his own over his final few months at the club, he was absolutely terrible at it for long spells prior to that, and his good performances shortly after joining came in a partnership with Doidge that seemed to suit both players.

[A Hi-Bee]

I wouldn't be greedy and ask for a Gordon and O Rourke, but rarely mentioned on here, I'd settle for a Gordon Durie and Steve Cowan.

Or Joe Baker on his own.
:thumbsup:

[JohnM1875]

Nisbet, called up by Scotland to replace the Heid, many did not want him back at Hibs, the guy is a goalscorer who could play one up and still make and score goals. No good enough for us eh1 Aye right.
:aok:

He's looked rank whenever I've seen him play for Aberdeen. If he's the best we can call up as a replacement we really are struggling.

[snedzuk]

Gray isn't really the problem, it's the distinct lack of quality throughout the squad that's the real issue.

Hoilett is quality. He also comes over in interviews like a conversationalist and if he said he understood something, I'd believe him. He's also confident enough to say when he doesn't. I do wonder if over coaching is a thing now and some / a majority of players just can't keep up with what's asked of them (and younger / less confident / English not a first language are missing out).

[Donegal Hibby]

How many goals has Nisbet got for Aberdeen ?

[A Hi-Bee]

How many goals has Nisbet got for Aberdeen ?

Dont know I follow Hibs, no the sheep. He is a proven goalscorer.

[Donegal Hibby]

Dont know I follow Hibs, no the sheep. He is a proven goalscorer.

I’ve not been following them either which is why I was wondering how many he had that lead to him getting a call-up ?

[Smartie]

I’ve not been following them either which is why I was wondering how many he had that lead to him getting a call-up ?

The dearth of options up front Scotland have led to a situation where I'm more likely to pitch up at Hampden with my boots than I am likely to pitch up with a ticket to watch a Scotland game.

[BoomtownHibees]

I’ve not been following them either which is why I was wondering how many he had that lead to him getting a call-up ?

He has scored 3 in 6 games

[Donegal Hibby]

The dearth of options up front Scotland have led to a situation where I'm more likely to pitch up at Hampden with my boots than I am likely to pitch up with a ticket to watch a Scotland game.

Remember seeing a young lad for Scotland who I thought looked good , name escapes me now . As to Nisbet probably a better option than Shankland as I think he’s more mobile though most of Scotlands strikers probably are.

[Donegal Hibby]

He has scored 3 in 6 games

Thanks , probably why he’s got a call up then .. I did wonder maybe the reason we didn’t go for him might have been down to his attitude which I’m not saying was bad all the time though from the minute we signed him it always felt like he wanted away and the time of the Birmingham interest it felt like he maybe was sulking a bit because it didn’t happen , maybe I’m being unfair on this though.

[Callum_62]

Personally I think 4-4-2 is the future

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[A Hi-Bee]

Personally I think 4-4-2 is the future

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Personally I think tomorrow is the future.
:thumbsup:

[DarlingtonHibee]

Quick question 🤔 Will the SFA be paying Kieron Bowie wages?