best run club in Scotland

[AgentDaleCooper]

It's pretty clear our problems start at the top, and I think the future looks increasingly out of our hands...but this made me wonder, which is the best run club in Scotland, and why?

In our league, I think Celtic would have to try to fail with Rangers always seeming to be flirting with more banter years, but Aberdeen seem to be fairly consistent, bar the post-McInnes slump. Hearts have been fairly bi-polar, whilst Kilmarnock have done well probably mainly due to shrewd management appointments and signings (or is this something to do with their structure?). We seem to wake up a couple of times a decade, then fall asleep again, which is very frustrating. I think it's fair to say that our most successful time of late that was built on something sustainable was when Leanne was here. Any success previous to that has either been luck (the golden generation + Mowbray turning out to be a great gamble) or throwing money at it (McLeish's era), which always falls apart.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It's pretty clear our problems start at the top, and I think the future looks increasingly out of our hands...but this made me wonder, which is the best run club in Scotland, and why?

In our league, I think Celtic would have to try to fail with Rangers always seeming to be flirting with more banter years, but Aberdeen seem to be fairly consistent, bar the post-McInnes slump. Hearts have been fairly bi-polar, whilst Kilmarnock have done well probably mainly due to shrewd management appointments and signings (or is this something to do with their structure?). We seem to wake up a couple of times a decade, then fall asleep again, which is very frustrating. I think it's fair to say that our most successful time of late that was built on something sustainable was when Leanne was here. Any success previous to that has either been luck (the golden generation + Mowbray turning out to be a great gamble) or throwing money at it (McLeish's era), which always falls apart.

All about perspective -Mowbray was a recommendation made by a certain Sir Alex of Ferguson still in the height to his powers…

[Unseen work]

I’d say Motherwell are up their with the best run club in Scotland

Good youth players coming through, sell them for millions, buy decent players and sell them for profit and always seem in the running for top 6

[Paulie Walnuts]

Celtic and Motherwell. Celtic for constant success with huge profits and Motherwell for regularly overachieving relative to their size whilst rarely underachieving.

[Stokesy's on fire]

It's odd Motherwell never seem to find themselves in relegation battles.

[Winston Ingram]

It's pretty clear our problems start at the top, and I think the future looks increasingly out of our hands...but this made me wonder, which is the best run club in Scotland, and why?

In our league, I think Celtic would have to try to fail with Rangers always seeming to be flirting with more banter years, but Aberdeen seem to be fairly consistent, bar the post-McInnes slump. Hearts have been fairly bi-polar, whilst Kilmarnock have done well probably mainly due to shrewd management appointments and signings (or is this something to do with their structure?). We seem to wake up a couple of times a decade, then fall asleep again, which is very frustrating. I think it's fair to say that our most successful time of late that was built on something sustainable was when Leanne was here. Any success previous to that has either been luck (the golden generation + Mowbray turning out to be a great gamble) or throwing money at it (McLeish's era), which always falls apart.

The quality of our leadership really hit home to me this summer with the appointments we made.

After a season like we had last season we decided to appoint a DoF who’d never done the job before, a Director of Performance who’d never done the job before and a Manager who’d never done the job before.

To add to that, we’d backed that manager with a group of under qualified assistants. None of them hold the appropriate badges for their role, including Eddie May who has hee haw.

That is absolutely nuts.

[Heisenberg]

I’d say Motherwell are up their with the best run club in Scotland

Good youth players coming through, sell them for millions, buy decent players and sell them for profit and always seem in the running for top 6

Also let Kettlewell go on a run of 15 games without a win last season which is highly unusual in our league these days I’d imagine.

[Dmas]

I’d say Motherwell are up their with the best run club in Scotland

Good youth players coming through, sell them for millions, buy decent players and sell them for profit and always seem in the running for top 6

Do they? I can only think of van veen and Theo bear they’ve brought in and sold? they’ve uncovered a few good youth players defo doing something right there.
What I would love to know is what makes the players they sign (from lower levels in England than we do) succeed more than what we are signing, I always think teams like Motherwell and St.Mirren will always work hard and fight no matter what and we always come up short for that I’d love to know what goes on here that means we don’t have to have that attitude in every game

[BILLYHIBS]

Celtic

Time to listen to the Black Knights

[Bostonhibby]

Media will say Hearts. I'll say Motherwell, they are achieving more with less. Celtc in Scotland are only doing what their money and support size says they should do.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[easty]

Media will say Hearts. I'll say Motherwell, they are achieving more with less. Celtc in Scotland are only doing what their money and support size says they should do.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

What are Motherwell achieving?

[Bostonhibby]

What are Motherwell achieving?IMO they don't come across as a basket case with clueless owners, they seem to have a structure, direction and style of play that gets them results, sometimes punching above the level a club of their support size and spending power might be at.

I think that's what the original post was about?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

Different clubs excel at different things.

Hibs are very good at parts of the commerical and leisure side. It's an easy target to moan about when things aren't going well on the park but overall there are some good products and deals there that have generated good income. Sadly much of that has been wasted on the bits we aren't very good at.

Aberden have traded players excellently in recent years. Ferguson picked up for compentation and sold for £3M, McRrorie bought for £250K and sold for a reported £2.5M, Calvin Ramsay developed through their youth and sold for £4M, Miovski signed for £500K and sold for£6.8M, Ramadani signed for £100K and sold for £1.1M; I think there are a couple more as well. They have also sorted out their training facilities and have finished top 4 in 9 of the last 11 seasons (and it doesn't matter that there was no Hibs, Hearts or Rangers for one of those seasons, we all got ourselves relegated/liquidated and Aberdeeen didn't and took advantage). They had a bit of a mental couple of seasons post McInnes but seem to have rectified that now. The stadium is the elephant in the room with them.

Motherwell seem to have an ability to consistently punch their weight. They rarely really threaten the top 3 or 4 these days but equally never look in any real danger of going down. They also seem to have the community aspect locked down (something else Hibs are good at albeit it's not truly the remit of the club as such). They have attractive pricing for kids. A fucntional if uninspiring stadium and access to good training facilities.

If you could combine those 3 aspects with Hearts fans willingness to empty their pockets every month then you'd likely have a club destined for at least 3rd every season.

[Hibernian Verse]

What are Motherwell achieving?

More than the should, more regularly than they should. The OP isn't talking about silverware, you can run a small club well without ever winning anything.

[easty]

More than the should, more regularly than they should. The OP isn't talking about silverware, you can run a small club well without ever winning anything.

Is it more than they should? They’re generally where I’d expect them to be, rarely they do a little better.

[Chorley Hibee]

The quality of our leadership really hit home to me this summer with the appointments we made.

After a season like we had last season we decided to appoint a DoF who’d never done the job before, a Director of Performance who’d never done the job before and a Manager who’d never done the job before.

To add to that, we’d backed that manager with a group of under qualified assistants. None of them hold the appropriate badges for their role, including Eddie May who has hee haw.

That is absolutely nuts.

Couldn't agree more.

A sign of the incompetence that's endemic throughout Easter Road right now.

[Chorley Hibee]

Is it more than they should? They’re generally where I’d expect them to be, rarely they do a little better.

When you look at clubs of a similar stature (Dundee, St Mirren, Dunfermline, Falkirk etc) they've considerably outperformed all of those for many, many years.

40 succesive years in the top flight now (I know they were lucky to survive once in that period) is an incredible record for a club the size of Motherwell.

[Since452]

I'd be pretty content if I were a Motherwell fan. Like Chorley says, 40 years without relegation is impressive for a club of that size. Puts Hibs and Hearts to shame. They've even won a trophy in that time and been in cup finals and Europe comparatively regularly compared to clubs of a similar size.

[Alfiembra]

Where did we get McLeish from? - Motherwell
Where did we get Leeann from? - Motherwell

[flash]

Motherwell have been in all sorts financially on a few occasions in the last few years.

[Billy Whizz]

Motherwell have been in all sorts financially on a few occasions in the last few years.

A few years back when Boyle was around. They also offered fans free season tickets around covid time

[easty]

Where did we get McLeish from? - Motherwell
Where did we get Leeann from? - Motherwell

I cannae tell if this is a serious post or not.

Bit too much of a Motherwell love in going on for me just now, basically based on our inability to track Andy Halliday from a long throw.

They finished below us last season when we were brutal.

[Chorley Hibee]

Motherwell have been in all sorts financially on a few occasions in the last few years.

If you look back over that 40 year period I mention though, there's barely been a club in Scotland that wasn't in serious financial trouble at one point (Celtic included).

They've managed those stormy waters better than most.

[Chorley Hibee]

I cannae tell if this is a serious post or not.

Bit too much of a Motherwell love in going on for me just now, basically based on our inability to track Andy Halliday from a long throw.

They finished below us last season when we were brutal.

In general, Motherwell shouldn't be finishing above us, but they regularly have done.

Motherwell consistently punch their weight, or even more.

We consistently fail to meet our objectives.

That's the difference.

[easty]

In general, Motherwell shouldn't be finishing above us, but they regularly have done.

Motherwell consistently punch their weight, or even more.

We consistently fail to meet our objectives.

That's the difference.

Regularly? They’ve finished above us twice since we came back up, one of those times the season finished early.

Nobody would even be talking about Motherwell if Kwon had tracked his man. There wouldn’t be any posts about how they’re well run, not one.

[Chorley Hibee]

Regularly? They’ve finished above us twice since we came back up, one of those times the season finished early.

Nobody would even be talking about Motherwell if Kwon had tracked his man. There wouldn’t be any posts about how they’re well run, not one.

I don't agree.

I've regularly spoken about how well Motherwell have done given their stature, particularly in comparison to similar sized clubs.

Admittedly, that might have something to do with living there and being married to a Motherwell supporting wife, but I do think it's a legitimate argument.

Since 2000, we've only finished above Motherwell 13 out of 25 seasons.

We've both qualified for Europe 8 times in that period too.

We've won 2 trophies to their zero in that time.

The truth is, we've been pretty much been on a par with Motherwell for much of this century.

[He's here!]

I don't agree.

I've regularly spoken about how well Motherwell have done given their stature, particularly in comparison to similar sized clubs.

Admittedly, that might have something to do with living there and being married to a Motherwell supporting wife, but I do think it's a legitimate argument.

Since 2000, we've only finished above Motherwell 13 out of 25 seasons.

We've both qualified for Europe 8 times in that period too.

We've won 2 trophies to their zero in that time.

The truth is, we've been pretty much been on a par with Motherwell for much of this century.

Motherwell have finished second twice this century. Last time we finished second was 1975. They've also finished third three times as well spending every season in the top flight. A significantly better performing club in the league than Hibs. We should be pretty embarrassed by that

[MWHIBBIES]

I don't agree.

I've regularly spoken about how well Motherwell have done given their stature, particularly in comparison to similar sized clubs.

Admittedly, that might have something to do with living there and being married to a Motherwell supporting wife, but I do think it's a legitimate argument.

Since 2000, we've only finished above Motherwell 13 out of 25 seasons.

We've both qualified for Europe 8 times in that period too.

We've won 2 trophies to their zero in that time.

The truth is, we've been pretty much been on a par with Motherwell for much of this century.

Weve won 2 trophies to their zero, we've not been on par. We're miles clear when you consider that.

[easty]

I don't agree.

I've regularly spoken about how well Motherwell have done given their stature, particularly in comparison to similar sized clubs.

Admittedly, that might have something to do with living there and being married to a Motherwell supporting wife, but I do think it's a legitimate argument.

Since 2000, we've only finished above Motherwell 13 out of 25 seasons.

We've both qualified for Europe 8 times in that period too.

We've won 2 trophies to their zero in that time.

The truth is, we've been pretty much been on a par with Motherwell for much of this century.

We've won 3 trophies since they won theirs.

[easty]

Weve won 2 trophies to their zero, we've not been on par. We're miles clear when you consider that.

It's 3. They won the Scottish in 1991, but in the 90/91 season. We won the Skol cup in 91, but in the 91/92 season

[Hiber-nation]

Apart from Lennon Miller who won't be there for long their whole game plan is long throws.

They'll be struggling again soon although I think Kettlewell is a decent manager.

[Chorley Hibee]

Weve won 2 trophies to their zero, we've not been on par. We're miles clear when you consider that.

Yes, in that respect.

You could also add that Motherwell have finished second, something we've never achieved, and played Champions League qualifying.

They've also finished third more times than us in that period.

They've not been relegated either.

Cup football has been the only area where we've been significantly better than them this century (9 finals to their 4).

When you look at some of our defeats in those finals though, it's difficult to present them as an achievement.

When you consider the respective size of the clubs, I think it's fair to say Motherwell have a lot more to look at in terms of achievements than we do.

[Chorley Hibee]

We've won 3 trophies since they won theirs.

The stats refer to this century.

[easty]

When you consider the respective size of the clubs, I think it's fair to say Motherwell have a lot more to look at in terms of achievements than we do.

:faf:


Nooooooope

[flash]

Surely people aren't using winning trophies as a yardstick of success.

[.Sean.]

All about perspective -Mowbray was a recommendation made by a certain Sir Alex of Ferguson still in the height to his powers…
Mowbray was recommended to Hibs by Alex Ferguson? Never heard that one before

[blackpoolhibs]

I cannae tell if this is a serious post or not.

Bit too much of a Motherwell love in going on for me just now, basically based on our inability to track Andy Halliday from a long throw.

They finished below us last season when we were brutal.
I'm glad you specified last season, as more often than not we are brutal most seasons.

[Smartie]

Apart from Lennon Miller who won't be there for long their whole game plan is long throws.

They'll be struggling again soon although I think Kettlewell is a decent manager.

I agree.

It might have been someone on Longbangers who made the point though - Motherwell showed loyalty to him through a poor run that most clubs these days (certainly us) would have been seriously thinking about pulling the trigger during, and for which they surely deserve credit.

He seems to be able to oversee an improvement in individual players, something not to be sniffed at. We could do with having someone around for long enough to see whether they have the same ability. Feels like a while since we've had players join then leave to go on to better things as better players thanks to our input.

[Chorley Hibee]

:faf:


Nooooooope

Since 2007 (that's as far back as the app I have shows) our record against Motherwell is as follows:

P50 W20 D11 L19 (in all competitions).

It's not nice to think we're on a par with Motherwell (or just slightly better if it makes you feel easier) but it's largely the truth.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Mowbray was recommended to Hibs by Alex Ferguson? Never heard that one before

My thoughts exactly when I read it yesterday.

[Chorley Hibee]

Surely people aren't using winning trophies as a yardstick of success.

Surely people aren't using actual results against said team and league placings as a barometer of success.

[The Modfather]

Weve won 2 trophies to their zero, we've not been on par. We're miles clear when you consider that.

St Johnston clear of us in the last 15 years or so based on that metric. 3 trophies to our 2.

[flash]

Surely people aren't using actual results against said team and league placings as a barometer of success.

Good point. The disappointment of our record against Motherwell really put a dampener on my celebration back in 2016.

[lucky]

Yes, in that respect.

You could also add that Motherwell have finished second, something we've never achieved, and played Champions League qualifying.

They've also finished third more times than us in that period.

They've not been relegated either.

Cup football has been the only area where we've been significantly better than them this century (9 finals to their 4).

When you look at some of our defeats in those finals though, it's difficult to present them as an achievement.

When you consider the respective size of the clubs, I think it's fair to say Motherwell have a lot more to look at in terms of achievements than we do.

Motherwell have done well to stay in the league and have a few good seasons but football is about winning things and Hibs have won 3 cups since they last won anything. Our record since the fifties is shocking. As a club we are serial underachievers. We've lost cup finals to Livingston, Ross County and St Johnston never mind the semi-final losses to smaller clubs. Motherwell are nowhere near as successful as Hibs. The only club that can claim to well run is Celtic. Win everything, sell players on for huge profit and have money in the bank

[Chorley Hibee]

Good point. The disappointment of our record against Motherwell really put a dampener on my celebration back in 2016.

Good point.

Apologies, we're worse than St Johnstone then in your eyes, given winning trophies is the only barometer of success of course.

[flash]

Good point.

Apologies, we're worse than St Johnstone then in your eyes, given winning trophies is the only barometer of success of course.

It's the ultimate barometer surely.

[Chorley Hibee]

Motherwell have done well to stay in the league and have a few good seasons but football is about winning things and Hibs have won 3 cups since they last won anything. Our record since the fifties is shocking. As a club we are serial underachievers. We've lost cup finals to Livingston, Ross County and St Johnston never mind the semi-final losses to smaller clubs. Motherwell are nowhere near as successful as Hibs. The only club that can claim to well run is Celtic. Win everything, sell players on for huge profit and have money in the bank

For the larger clubs, I agree, it is about winning things.

Smaller clubs can deem themselves succesful by measures other than trophies though, surely you'd agree with that?

I'd suggest Motherwell meet their targets more regularly than we do, particularly of late.

The original argument was never a Hibs v Motherwell bout so to speak, it was that Motherwell, relative to their size, have long outperformed clubs of similar size, and frequently outperformed clubs of an even larger stature.

The stats back that up.

[Chorley Hibee]

It's the ultimate barometer surely.

It's reguarly a fleeting, short-term barometer.

Let's look at it this way.

If Hibs finish 3rd for the next 4/5 seasons, qualify for Europe, have decent runs in Europe, bag millions of pounds in prize money etc, but Dundee win a League Cup, whilst finishing bottom 6 all those years without Europe, who has been more successful?

I get there's two sides to that particular argument, but I know what I'd prefer right now.

[stantonhibby]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

[flash]

It's reguarly a fleeting, short-term barometer.

Let's look at it this way.

If Hibs finish 3rd for the next 4/5 seasons, qualify for Europe, have decent runs in Europe, bag millions of pounds in prize money etc, but Dundee win a League Cup, whilst finishing bottom 6 all those years without Europe, who has been more successful?

I get there's two sides to that particular argument, but I know what I'd prefer right now.

That would be Hibs. Let's hope this scenario plays out........

[blackpoolhibs]

It's reguarly a fleeting, short-term barometer.

Let's look at it this way.

If Hibs finish 3rd for the next 4/5 seasons, qualify for Europe, have decent runs in Europe, bag millions of pounds in prize money etc, but Dundee win a League Cup, whilst finishing bottom 6 all those years without Europe, who has been more successful?

I get there's two sides to that particular argument, but I know what I'd prefer right now.
That wont be Hibs, and that scenario will never play out under the current owners.

[flash]

That wont be Hibs, and that scenario will never play out under the current owners.

To be fair it won't play out regardless of who owns the club.

[He's here!]

Different clubs excel at different things.

Hibs are very good at parts of the commerical and leisure side. It's an easy target to moan about when things aren't going well on the park but overall there are some good products and deals there that have generated good income. Sadly much of that has been wasted on the bits we aren't very good at.

Aberden have traded players excellently in recent years. Ferguson picked up for compentation and sold for £3M, McRrorie bought for £250K and sold for a reported £2.5M, Calvin Ramsay developed through their youth and sold for £4M, Miovski signed for £500K and sold for£6.8M, Ramadani signed for £100K and sold for £1.1M; I think there are a couple more as well. They have also sorted out their training facilities and have finished top 4 in 9 of the last 11 seasons (and it doesn't matter that there was no Hibs, Hearts or Rangers for one of those seasons, we all got ourselves relegated/liquidated and Aberdeeen didn't and took advantage). They had a bit of a mental couple of seasons post McInnes but seem to have rectified that now. The stadium is the elephant in the room with them.

Motherwell seem to have an ability to consistently punch their weight. They rarely really threaten the top 3 or 4 these days but equally never look in any real danger of going down. They also seem to have the community aspect locked down (something else Hibs are good at albeit it's not truly the remit of the club as such). They have attractive pricing for kids. A fucntional if uninspiring stadium and access to good training facilities.

If you could combine those 3 aspects with Hearts fans willingness to empty their pockets every month then you'd likely have a club destined for at least 3rd every season.

That bit about Aberdeen's top four finishes won't wash with a certain poster. They were virtually handed to them ;-)

[easty]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

Yep

[He's here!]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

What are the good things to say about Hibs in recent years?

[Coco Bryce]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

Maybe because we aren't a well run club? :confused:

[Chorley Hibee]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

I'll have plenty to say once they provide me with something to be pleased with.

That's seldom been the case for many a year now.

[Smartie]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

Comparing clubs is like comparing apples and oranges, but is not reasonable to acknowledge that some clubs appear to achieve well relative to what their expectations may be, whereas some others appear to consistently fail to meet expectations, ours being one?

[flash]

Some bizarre 'bigging up' of Motherwell from folk who rarely have a good word to say about our club. Each to their own I suppose.

Not so bizarre when you see who is doing it.

[stantonhibby]

I'll have plenty to say once they provide me with something to be pleased with.

That's seldom been the case for many a year now.

You've always got plenty to say sadly.....your guff about Hibs somehow being cowards and at fault for the Rangers ticket shambles a particular lowlight.

[stantonhibby]

Not so bizarre when you see who is doing it.

Indeed

[Chorley Hibee]

Not so bizarre when you see who is doing it.

Whats your issue with me?

You can't have a proper conversation without resorting to petty insults or condescending comments.

By all means disagree with me, but there's no need to be such an arse about it.

I follow Hibs home and away, every week, so the insinuation that I don't have Hibs' best interests at heart, or that your opinion holds more weight than mine, is frankly bollocks.

If you think everything surrounding Hibs is great, then good for you. Myself, and many others, think otherwise, and this forum is a place for discussing that.

[Chorley Hibee]

You've always got plenty to say sadly.....your guff about Hibs somehow being cowards and at fault for the Rangers ticket shambles a particular lowlight.

I thought Hibs should have been more proactive in keeping their fans informed.

Oh the horror.

I also commended those involved on the work they did, in getting it sorted, once the tickets were released.

You missed that of course.

[flash]

Whats your issue with me?

You can't have a proper conversation without resorting to petty insults or condescending comments.

By all means disagree with me, but there's no need to be such an arse about it.

I follow Hibs home and away, every week, so the insinuation that I don't have Hibs' best interests at heart, or that your opinion holds more weight than mine, is frankly bollocks.

If you think everything surrounding Hibs is great, then good for you. Myself, and many others, think otherwise, and this forum is a place for discussing that.
My issue is with every poster who fills this forum, regardless of what the thread is actually meant to be about, with relentless cut and paste posts absolutely destroying every single aspect of the club.

In the interests of balance there are a few relentlessly positive posters who are just as bad.

I don't know you and have no personal issues with anybody on this board.

[tamig]

It's the ultimate barometer surely.

Its not the barometer for this thread. You and easty appear to have missed the point of the thread.

[flash]

Its not the barometer for this thread. You and easty appear to have missed the point of the thread.

It isn't but the thread had gone off track long before I got involved.

[tamig]

It isn't but the thread had gone off track long before I got involved.

I know its deviated. I think Chorley makes some good points about Motherwell though. And I disagree with most of what he posts on here. So fair play to him.

[flash]

I know its deviated. I think Chorley makes some good points about Motherwell though. And I disagree with most of what he posts on here. So fair play to him.

Aye I think we can all agree that we should finish above Motherwell, Killie, Dundee etc far more often than we do.

Can't agree that Motherwell have been particularly well run over the years though.

[stantonhibby]

I thought Hibs should have been more proactive in keeping their fans informed.

Oh the horror.

I also commended those involved on the work they did, in getting it sorted, once the tickets were released.

You missed that of course.

Well you know if you'd put it like that, as a few others did, then fair enough....but no you went with the Hibs are cowards option.

As for you commending those involved yep I did miss that and stll don't see it tbh so assume it's on a different thread.

[Chorley Hibee]

Well you know if you'd put it like that, as a few others did, then fair enough....but no you went with the Hibs are cowards option.

As for you commending those involved yep I did miss that and stll don't see it tbh so assume it's on a different thread.

Yes, I think the Hibs board are cowardly when it comes to tackling Rangers over a plethora of issues, and I thought they should've been more vocal on this occasion as well.

Again, I'm not alone in those thoughts.

Whilst we eventually got the tickets, it resulted in a much smaller uptake than what would usually have been at Ibrox (I was one of the few who went).

Could I occasionally phrase things better, probably, but I'm sure if I took the time to scour through your contributions on here, I could take aim at some of your own musings as well.

[easty]

Its not the barometer for this thread. You and easty appear to have missed the point of the thread.

Have I?

I disagree that Motherwell are any kind of barometer for being a well run club. I don’t think there would be any agreement with Chorley from anyone had we not lost at the weekend. Motherwell are not a more successful club than Hibs, now or in history.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Have I?

I disagree that Motherwell are any kind of barometer for being a well run club. I don’t think there would be any agreement with Chorley from anyone had we not lost at the weekend. Motherwell are not a more successful club than Hibs, now or in history.

Would you say St Johnstone have been more successful than us this century?

[easty]

Would you say St Johnstone have been more successful than us this century?

Yeah. I think it’d be hard to argue with that, given that they won the double and we’ve been average at best.

[Smartie]

Aye I think we can all agree that we should finish above Motherwell, Killie, Dundee etc far more often than we do.

Can't agree that Motherwell have been particularly well run over the years though.

Their existence has been a rollercoaster, not unlike ours. It's hard to ignore a couple of administration events when trying to justify a club as being well run, but outside of those times they do really quite well relative to their budget and they probably deserve credit for that. By contrast, we've got relegations as the black marks but have generally been very well run financially, albeit it'll be interesting to see what happens under the current mob over the next few years. Our trophies paper over a lot of years of mediocrity in between, when comparing the 2 clubs from an arbitrary point of say, the start of the nineties.

The argument about who is better run probably depends on every individual's own definition of "well run". I look at Motherwell right now and consider them well run. Could I see them end up hijacked by dafties and back in administration within a decade? Aye.

[He's here!]

Yeah. I think it’d be hard to argue with that, given that they won the double and we’ve been average at best.

They've certainly been more successful over a shorter period of time. They spent the first nine years in the First Division before McInnes brought them up and since then their overall record for a much smaller club than Hibs is very good. Three major cups, a third place finish, three consecutive fourth places and six seasons in Europe. Beats Hibs all ends up. And in relation to the thread title they've remained relatively well run despite often toiling with low crowds.

[Nutmegged]

Hard to see past Celtic to be honest, they make their own money, run at a profit and seem to have their moneyball strategy worked out to perfection, in fairness the lack of any real competition in Scotland has made it easy for them to achieve this.

Their moneyball strategy is also probably a reason they don't do so well in Europe because as soon as a player is good enough to do damage at that level, he'll be sold.


Record ST holders and by a distance the biggest in Scotland
Record revenues
Record sponsorships
Record profits
Record sales
Record signings
Record bank balance

Unfortunately they're probaby unsurmountable in terms of Scottish Football, they could always have a bad season but just like after covid, they're in such a strong financial position that they'll be able to rectify that practically ASAP, and they seem to have quite close links with the City group too, which is probably why their recruitment always seems to be very decent.

I think any questions like this should exclude Celtic because they'll probably be by and far the best in every positive catagory.

[MWHIBBIES]

It's 3. They won the Scottish in 1991, but in the 90/91 season. We won the Skol cup in 91, but in the 91/92 season

I think poster was just discussing since millennium. But yeah. Hibs are miles clear trophy wise, which is what matters. Every well fan would take our last 20 years over theirs.

[MWHIBBIES]

They've certainly been more successful over a shorter period of time. They spent the first nine years in the First Division before McInnes brought them up and since then their overall record for a much smaller club than Hibs is very good. Three major cups, a third place finish, three consecutive fourth places and six seasons in Europe. Beats Hibs all ends up. And in relation to the thread title they've remained relatively well run despite often toiling with low crowds.

Argument that they've never built on the success with increased crowds, though. Hibs Scottish cup win massively increased our crowds. Theirs remain awful.

[Since90+2]

Argument that they've never built on the success with increased crowds, though. Hibs Scottish cup win massively increased our crowds. Theirs remain awful.

Their average attendance is pretty similar to ours last two seasons, in percentage terms of will be pretty small. I think their away end is also a bit smaller than the south stand, so the numbers of home fans attending will be more or less the same.

They've also had over 17,000 on average so far this season. I wouldn't call that awful.

[flash]

Their average attendance is pretty similar to ours last two seasons, in percentage terms of will be pretty small. I think their away end is also a bit smaller than the south stand, so the numbers of home fans attending will be more or less the same.

They've also had over 17,000 on average so far this season. I wouldn't call that awful.

He was talking about St Johnstone.

[Since90+2]

He was talking about St Johnstone.

Ah I see.

In reality they are a fairly small club, their attendances are never going to increase by much IMO.

[hibstag]

It's odd Motherwell never seem to find themselves in relegation battles.

Did they not pump the rangers by six goals in the playoff 2015 and learnt there lesson from that close shave, I'm sure they have had good bottom six form too recently after poor runs of results in latter stages of season

[He's here!]

Did they not pump the rangers by six goals in the playoff 2015 and learnt there lesson from that close shave, I'm sure they have had good bottom six form too recently after poor runs of results in latter stages of season

Think they're the only current top flight club apart from Celtic and Aberdeen to have been in the top league for 40 straight years.

[easty]

Think they're the only current top flight club apart from Celtic and Aberdeen to have been in the top league for 40 straight years.

Motherwell and Aberdeen have only done so by fluke though. Both have come bottom and escaped relegation because of Falkirks stadium.

[tamig]

Have I?

I disagree that Motherwell are any kind of barometer for being a well run club. I don’t think there would be any agreement with Chorley from anyone had we not lost at the weekend. Motherwell are not a more successful club than Hibs, now or in history.

The thread isn’t about success.

[easty]

The thread isn’t about success.

So you've just ignored the part of my post about a well run club then aye?

[He's here!]

Motherwell and Aberdeen have only done so by fluke though. Both have come bottom and escaped relegation because of Falkirks stadium.

Yes, that was particularly annoying when Aberdeen escaped the drop. Did they not bizarrely reach both cup finals that season too?

[Chorley Hibee]

Yes, that was particularly annoying when Aberdeen escaped the drop. Did they not bizarrely reach both cup finals that season too?

That's right.

Still pissed off that we lost that Scottish Cup Semi-Final to them in 2000.

[He's here!]

Argument that they've never built on the success with increased crowds, though. Hibs Scottish cup win massively increased our crowds. Theirs remain awful.

Yes, they deserved better in the wake of those achievements. Seem to recall they got better crowds in the 90s, but Perth's not a big city and while a lot of folk 'support' the club it's only the cup finals/promotion deciders that really get more fans to turn out.

[Pretty Boy]

Well run and successful can be mutually exclusive.

Celtic in the 90s under Fergus McCann were prudently run with an eye on the long term that has set them up for their total dominance now but it was one of the least successful periods in their history. By contrast Rangers were the dominant force but the way they were run set in motion the events that led to their liquidation and status as also rans today. Hearts under Robinson and Romanov were shockingly run but 3 Scottish Cups in 15 years was relative success. Man Utd dominated under Fergie but failed to adapt to the modern game because of that success and his autocracy. Their whole structure was antiquated and when he left the scene that was brutally exposed. The Barcelona era of the 2010s was hugely successful but they were terribly run. Spurs are a well run club, financially prudent with good infrastructure but their lack of success attracts mirth in England comparable to the 'Hibsing it' pish up here.

I think post Boyle Motherwell have been a well run club who have enjoyed moderate success in the league without having real tangible success in the form of trophies to show for it. The failings of the Boyle era are really no more relevant to them now than the Rowland and Duff era is to Hibs.

I think it's a bit harder for us to give credit to other teams because for the last few years we have been neither well run or successful so it sticks in the craw a bit to give credit to anyone else.

[He's here!]

Their existence has been a rollercoaster, not unlike ours. It's hard to ignore a couple of administration events when trying to justify a club as being well run, but outside of those times they do really quite well relative to their budget and they probably deserve credit for that. By contrast, we've got relegations as the black marks but have generally been very well run financially, albeit it'll be interesting to see what happens under the current mob over the next few years. Our trophies paper over a lot of years of mediocrity in between, when comparing the 2 clubs from an arbitrary point of say, the start of the nineties.

The argument about who is better run probably depends on every individual's own definition of "well run". I look at Motherwell right now and consider them well run. Could I see them end up hijacked by dafties and back in administration within a decade? Aye.

The trophies have by and large been won when the team has been one that's built towards it. League Cup 1972 was won by a terrific Hibs side built by Turnbull, and one which was unfortunate not to win more. Skol Cup 91 kind of confirmed the club's rebirth and, credit to Alex Miller/Dougie Cromb, we'd assembled a decent, well balanced side which just felt like a team. 2007 League Cup was a fitting triumph for the young, refreshing side Mowbray built and which Collins (for an all too short spell) took to the next level (talking of Motherwell I remember watching us hammer them 6-1 at Fir Park early in JC's tenure and thinking he was really going to do something special with Hibs). Aside from the enormity of ending the 114-year wait, the 2016 win was also one which the Stubbs/Dempster era had been steadily building towards.

As you say, though, they tend to paper over far too many years of medicocrity.

[tamig]

So you've just ignored the part of my post about a well run club then aye?

No. But you keep banging on about success. You mentioned it in the post I quoted. Again 🥱

[easty]

No. But you keep banging on about success. You mentioned it in the post I quoted. Again 🥱

Sorry post police. I’ll be sure to check with you what I’m allowed to post about…

Yawn.