Gray is out of his depth’

[Liam89]

He was never out of his depth. We just had a very bad run of individual errors, poor VAR decisions and, yes, some poor decision making by our manager.

Yup, that’s how I always saw it too.

[Wilson]

Yup, that’s how I always saw it too.

The bad luck we were having was obvious. I was holding on to the fact we were well in games. That failing to hold a lead was bad but getting in front in games was a positive in itself.

It is a results business though and the longer it continued the more concerning it became.

I'm relieved, and glad for Gray, that results have materialised. Reward for a tonne of hard work and sleepless nights I expect!

[Paulie Walnuts]

I make today his 28th game in charge as permanent manager. His record stands at 10 wins, 8 draws and 10 defeats.

At this point in time I make it a 36% win record. On its own nothing to write home about, but it’s improving at a rate of knots. A massive turnaround from earlier in the season where his record was atrocious :agree:

[ancient hibee]

Or a 64% not losing record.:greengrin

[SHODAN]

Gray is splashing around in a tiny wee puddle

[GreenCastle]

39 matches in total..manager / caretaker..

15 wins
11 draws
13 loses

Goals for..65
Against - 50

He’s beaten..

Aberdeen
Hearts
Motherwell
Dundee
St Mirren
St Johnstone
Kilmarnock
Ross County

Not beaten yet..current top league teams..

Celtic
Rangers
Dundee Utd

[Paulie Walnuts]

Or a 64% not losing record.:greengrin

Just to clarify, it was supposed to be a positive point I was making :greengrin

He’s very close to matching Lee Johnson. That would make him our best manager for a good while and at the rate he’s going he’ll take over him very soon.

[GreenCastle]

He better beat Clydebank or this thread will be wild.

[ancient hibee]

Just to clarify, it was supposed to be a positive point I was making :greengrin

He’s very close to matching Lee Johnson. That would make him our best manager for a good while and at the rate he’s going he’ll take over him very soon.

Yes -As you said it’s the rate of improvement that is so impressive.

[Victor]

Gray is splashing around in a tiny wee puddle

Why? Does he think he is a sparrow?

[The Modfather]

I think it’s been a steep learning curve for Gray. For all it’s valid to call out the individual mistakes for the season up to the Aberdeen game. We also suffered sticking to an ill suited 451/433, shelling crosses into an empty box and things like the team that competed well at Ibrox starting the next home game where we needed to be on the front foot.

I think the enforced change was the bit of luck Gray needed, like all managers do. I’m not sure Gray is all that great tactically, which isn’t intended as a scathing criticism, more that his people management skills are possibly his biggest asset. Martin O’Neil was the same and very successful doing so.

[Hibee Mac]

The job he's doing with this squad is to be commended.

Remember we had a significant number of results and points lost earlier in the season due to individual errors and bad luck. He's turned it around big time since we got a bit more rub of the green.

I hope his fairytale Hibs story keeps on giving.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

The turnaround in results is genuinely astonishing, and was unthinkable walking out of Dens Park all those weeks back. I honestly could not see a realistic route to safety for Gray at that point. Teams and managers just don’t come back from that.

Except he has. And then some.

We played well in plenty of games early in the season but shot ourselves in the foot over and over again. We took 1 point from 6 against Dundee United and they’ve never looked better than us in any game as an example but bar a few shockers, we were the better team in most of most of the games we dropped points in, only to get punished in the moments we weren’t.

In the same way that Aberdeen’s good luck couldn’t continue, neither could our bad luck and we’ve got away with a few things that we weren’t getting away with during that shan run - Shankland at the end of the derby, Igamane at the end of the Rangers draw etc - scoring penalties instead of missing them etc.

Gray has been consistent and I think he’s handled himself tremendously well.

[B.H.F.C]

The turnaround in results is genuinely astonishing, and was unthinkable walking out of Dens Park all those weeks back. I honestly could not see a realistic route to safety for Gray at that point. Teams and managers just don’t come back from that.

Except he has. And then some.

We played well in plenty of games early in the season but shot ourselves in the foot over and over again. We took 1 point from 6 against Dundee United and they’ve never looked better than us in any game as an example but bar a few shockers, we were the better team in most of most of the games we dropped points in, only to get punished in the moments we weren’t.

In the same way that Aberdeen’s good luck couldn’t continue, neither could our bad luck and we’ve got away with a few things that we weren’t getting away with during that shan run - Shankland at the end of the derby, Igamane at the end of the Rangers draw etc - scoring penalties instead of missing them etc.

Gray has been consistent and I think he’s handled himself tremendously well.

Decent bit of analysis on Sportscene showing how we’re working out of possession.

Earlier in the season we just looked like a collection of individuals for me. We didn’t look like a team, we didn’t look like we had a plan. There are definitely a few things going for us but we’re making our own luck just now. The attitude, drive and determination is night and day to earlier in the season. Combine that with us being a lot better set up as well. Like you, I did not see this when I left Dens Park.

[matty_f]

Decent bit of analysis on Sportscene showing how we’re working out of possession.

Earlier in the season we just looked like a collection of individuals for me. We didn’t look like a team, we didn’t look like we had a plan. There are definitely a few things going for us but we’re making our own luck just now. The attitude, drive and determination is night and day to earlier in the season. Combine that with us being a lot better set up as well. Like you, I did not see this when I left Dens Park.

Yeah, I didn’t mean to do anyone a disservice - I would say the biggest thing I’ve noticed is that the players look like they’re knackered at the end of each game now, whereas earlier in the season some of them were leaving the pitch with clean shorts and barely in a sweat - but that was building before the results changed.

If you look at that horror show in Dundee, we started brilliantly that night, on the front foot, got an early goal and looked like we’d score more. One red card later and the arse fell out the team.

There’s a big element of making your own luck but also you need to accept sometimes you get the rub of the green as well, and sometimes you don’t. We’ve been on both sides of it this season.

[B.H.F.C]

Yeah, I didn’t mean to do anyone a disservice - I would say the biggest thing I’ve noticed is that the players look like they’re knackered at the end of each game now, whereas earlier in the season some of them were leaving the pitch with clean shorts and barely in a sweat - but that was building before the results changed.

If you look at that horror show in Dundee, we started brilliantly that night, on the front foot, got an early goal and looked like we’d score more. One red card later and the arse fell out the team.

There’s a big element of making your own luck but also you need to accept sometimes you get the rub of the green as well, and sometimes you don’t. We’ve been on both sides of it this season.

We’re definitely getting a bit of luck just now. Even today, Cadden goes off and Obita comes on and sets a goal up within 5 minutes.

Just feel the whole attitude and way the players are going about it is night and day to earlier in the season.

[matty_f]

We’re definitely getting a bit of luck just now. Even today, Cadden goes off and Obita comes on and sets a goal up within 5 minutes.

Just feel the whole attitude and way the players are going about it is night and day to earlier in the season.

Totally agree.

[ChilliEater]

I didn't think we were ever as bad as the resuts we had on the bad run, and I don't think we're as good as the results we're getting now, but we're working a bit harder and seem to have a developed a real togetherness and determination now which is turning the "fine margins" in our favour. Long may it continue.

[GreenCastle]

We’re definitely getting a bit of luck just now. Even today, Cadden goes off and Obita comes on and sets a goal up within 5 minutes.

Just feel the whole attitude and way the players are going about it is night and day to earlier in the season.

Or just Obita has been out the team and has to play well to get into team. Earlier in season he maybe felt he couldn’t be dropped and took his place for granted.

Seems more competitive and supportive now and everyone pulling in same direction whether it be starters or those coming on want to do well.

The main reasons Gray has improved..

Changed keeper
Changed formation
Better subs
Iredale / Rocky / Nicky Cadden / Campbell / Gayle and Smith have all stepped up big time.
Linked to the above character of these players and passion / togetherness brings to the team.
Boyle also has really stepped it up as a player and captain / vice too.

Main thing though is confidence and belief after the late Aberdeen goal in 3-3 game.

[theonlywayisup]

I didn't think we were ever as bad as the resuts we had on the bad run, and I don't think we're as good as the results we're getting now, but we're working a bit harder and seem to have a developed a real togetherness and determination now which is turning the "fine margins" in our favour. Long may it continue.

Yes, fully agree. There is a risk that we could also go on a bad run.

Generally, I feel our substitutes don't make a major contribution. Obviously, some like Obita (yesterday), Gayle (Derby plus other games) and Miller (previously) have. I feel we need better coming off the bench, which will happen when our injured players return.

[basehibby]

Gray was out of his depth (now he isn't)

Nah - if he WAS out of his depth he would have sunk. He never was "out of his depth" and has proven that by turning a bad situation round with calmness, consistency, self-belief and determination.

[B.H.F.C]

Nah - if he WAS out of his depth he would have sunk. He never was "out of his depth" and has proven that by turning a bad situation round with calmness, consistency, self-belief and determination.

The change came just soon enough to save him and I’m absolutely delighted it did. I thought he was done for after that game at Dundee.

The change in shape is the single biggest change for me, I really wish it had happened just a bit sooner. We still lack creativity centrally but it’s helping us get so many more bodies in to the box. Earlier in the season we were crossing the ball in to Myko on his own and not a lot was happening. We’ve went from being the lowest scorers in the league to third highest behind only Celtic and Rangers.

[007]

I think SDG has got us pressing opponents better than other recent managers have, resulting in the opposition making mistakes, which we are capitalising on, or going long and more often than not we are regaining possession.

[B.H.F.C]

I think SDG has got us pressing opponents better than other recent managers having resulting in the opposition making mistakes, which we are capitalising on, or going long and more often than not we are regaining possession.

They did a bit of analysis on it on Sportscene last night. Attributed a lot of it to the change of shape. Even at the game yesterday though you could see it quite clearly. Boyle did it tirelessly and Gayle did it intelligently.

[easty]

The change came just soon enough to save him and I’m absolutely delighted it did. I thought he was done for after that game at Dundee.

The change in shape is the single biggest change for me, I really wish it had happened just a bit sooner. We still lack creativity centrally but it’s helping us get so many more bodies in to the box. Earlier in the season we were crossing the ball in to Myko on his own and not a lot was happening. We’ve went from being the lowest scorers in the league to third highest behind only Celtic and Rangers.

Yep.

I was pretty vocal on here about how I thought he had to go, and sentiment should be out the window. Delighted to be proven wrong, and it’s that change of shape that’s done it. Well done SDG!

A good manager needs to get the best out of what he has, it wasn’t working before, but he’s absolutely getting the best out of the squad now.

[Since452]

Gray is proving me and many others wrong. Get it right up us 😂

[Smartie]

The change came just soon enough to save him and I’m absolutely delighted it did. I thought he was done for after that game at Dundee.

The change in shape is the single biggest change for me, I really wish it had happened just a bit sooner. We still lack creativity centrally but it’s helping us get so many more bodies in to the box. Earlier in the season we were crossing the ball in to Myko on his own and not a lot was happening. We’ve went from being the lowest scorers in the league to third highest behind only Celtic and Rangers.

I defended him and defended him when he was under pressure so it feels a bit weird to be criticising him retrospectively but I also wonder if some of the changes ie formation and GK swap could have happened sooner?

Bursik was ropey from the start and he can’t have had many complaints that he wasn’t given a proper change by the time the umpteenth dither with the ball at his feet was punished at Dens.

352 suiting many of our players better than 451 felt obvious from day 1 - and quite a few were suggesting it on the “team for Saturday” threads, along with teams that looked superior to the ones we actually picked.

And even if it looked sensible from day 1, it got switched to at Tannadice, where we went on to play about as well as we had up to that point in the season. It was then ditched and picked up again several weeks later. I wonder if we could have used it more prior to the Aberdeen game at home?

Doesn’t really matter now, with results now having improved, but I do have a tiny wee bit of “what if”, when there was no real reason not to go to 352 sooner.

[Northernhibee]

I get the feeling that SDG is an excellent communicator. Never overly wordy when we hear him speak but everything he says makes perfect sense and is completely understandable.

It’s a rare skill and lends itself well to the role.

[B.H.F.C]

I defended him and defended him when he was under pressure so it feels a bit weird to be criticising him retrospectively but I also wonder if some of the changes ie formation and GK swap could have happened sooner?

Bursik was ropey from the start and he can’t have had many complaints that he wasn’t given a proper change by the time the umpteenth dither with the ball at his feet was punished at Dens.

352 suiting many of our players better than 451 felt obvious from day 1 - and quite a few were suggesting it on the “team for Saturday” threads, along with teams that looked superior to the ones we actually picked.

And even if it looked sensible from day 1, it got switched to at Tannadice, where we went on to play about as well as we had up to that point in the season. It was then ditched and picked up again several weeks later. I wonder if we could have used it more prior to the Aberdeen game at home?

Doesn’t really matter now, with results now having improved, but I do have a tiny wee bit of “what if”, when there was no real reason not to go to 352 sooner.

Changes definitely could/should have happened sooner. We’ll never know how close he came to losing his job but he can’t have been far away.

I’m glad it’s turned. That was always the best thing that could happen. Just hope we haven’t given ourselves too much to do in terms of finishing in a decent position. When you think of all the games where we dropped points late on and/or through lack of discipline, even just a couple of wins in there could have things looking so much better.

[Smartie]

Changes definitely could/should have happened sooner. We’ll never know how close he came to losing his job but he can’t have been far away.

I’m glad it’s turned. That was always the best thing that could happen. Just hope we haven’t given ourselves too much to do in terms of finishing in a decent position. When you think of all the games where we dropped points late on and/or through lack of discipline, even just a couple of wins in there could have things looking so much better.

Yes, it feels a big churlish and greedy to be going down the “what if” route… but whilst it looks like it’s shaping up to be at worst a respectable season, maybe it could have been shaping up to be an excellent one?

[McD]

I think SDG has got us pressing opponents better than other recent managers have, resulting in the opposition making mistakes, which we are capitalising on, or going long and more often than not we are regaining possession.


Particularly when NMW came off the bench against rangers, we were pressing them very high, often winning the ball or disrupting their play before they’d even got as far as the centre circle, was great to see.


It’s hard to sustain over a match but I’d far rather see a team that does that instead of just dropping deep and choking the life out of a game (such as st Johnstone, etc do)

[Cooshed Kid]

I think the pivotal moment was when I gave up on him. Instantly our fortunes changed. I'm hesitant to post anything too complimentary now in case it works in reverse.

[Smartie]

I think the pivotal moment was when I gave up on him. Instantly our fortunes changed. I'm hesitant to post anything too complimentary now in case it works in reverse.

I thought I was going to be the last one to lose hope and give up on him... and after about half an hour of the Ross County game I was questioning for the first time if that was enough.

[I'm Spartacus]

SDG was never ever the problem at the club, he was always part of the solution IMO. The one man we should never turn on.

Is it also a coincidence when all the chatter appeared from BK that the heirarchy within the club were not listening to them?

I still want Ben K, Malky M and Ian G out of our club.

[easty]

SDG was never ever the problem at the club, he was always part of the solution IMO. The one man we should never turn on.

Is it also a coincidence when all the chatter appeared from BK that the heirarchy within the club were not listening to them?

I still want Ben K, Malky M and Ian G out of our club.

He was at least part of the problem though. He had us set up wrong for the players available to him, and we were bottom of the league. He's remedied it now, but there's not point pretending he was doing a good job at the start of the season.

[Shrekko]

They did a bit of analysis on it on Sportscene last night. Attributed a lot of it to the change of shape. Even at the game yesterday though you could see it quite clearly. Boyle did it tirelessly and Gayle did it intelligently.

Andy Halliday was saying on Open Goal that the structure of Hibs pressing is like night and day compared to earlier in the season and that we are a tonne more compact now making us far more difficult to play through.

[Victor]

Andy Halliday was saying on Open Goal that the structure of Hibs pressing is like night and day compared to earlier in the season and that we are a tonne more compact now making us far more difficult to play through.

You can see it quite clearly. It is like two banks of five that form up across the pitch. For whatever reason we didn’t establish the shape early enough against Rangers, but when we did we just stopped them playing forward. Against Motherwell on Saturday we formed up early and again stifled their forward play. It is quite impressive, but must take a lot of concentration to ensure it stays that way.

[Smartie]

Andy Halliday was saying on Open Goal that the structure of Hibs pressing is like night and day compared to earlier in the season and that we are a tonne more compact now making us far more difficult to play through.

Can't believe I'm saying this but some of the insights Halliday offers on that programme are amongst the best you'll hear from anyone, anywhere.

An actual current player sharing real, live experience being gleaned from playing right now.

Some of the folk being paid to offer their opinions on Scottish football, in particular on the BBC are truly diabolical in comparison.

[JohnM1875]

Can't believe I'm saying this but some of the insights Halliday offers on that programme are amongst the best you'll hear from anyone, anywhere.

An actual current player sharing real, live experience being gleaned from playing right now.

Some of the folk being paid to offer their opinions on Scottish football, in particular on the BBC are truly diabolical in comparison.

Halliday genuinely seems like a class guy. Really likeable other than the two teams he’s played for.

Agree, he provides some brilliant analysis and you can tell he's really passionate about the game.

[Dashing Bob S]

Halliday genuinely seems like a class guy. Really likeable other than the two teams he’s played for.

Agree, he provides come brilliant analysis and you can tell he's really passionate about the game.


I've been feeling for sometime that Halliday is one of the most brilliant analysts of the Scottish game. He's got a future in punditry, and you'd think he might be inclined to have a shot at management.

[Waxy]

Andy Halliday was saying on Open Goal that the structure of Hibs pressing is like night and day compared to earlier in the season and that we are a tonne more compact now making us far more difficult to play through.

However, he also thought that he’d won the cup.

[oneone73]

However, he also thought that he’d won the cup.

And then what happened?

[FilipinoHibs]

Halliday genuinely seems like a class guy. Really likeable other than the two teams he’s played for.

Agree, he provides come brilliant analysis and you can tell he's really passionate about the game.

Read his posts about Ireland to see what sort of person he is.

[007]

Read his posts about Ireland to see what sort of person he is.

The posts could be anywhere, can you provide a link to them?

[Murphys Touch]

Read his posts about Ireland to see what sort of person he is.

About the flag?

Regardless of politics - Guy speaks a good game. Been invloved at a very high level since he was 16. I remember Si Ferry saying he hated the fact Halliday was a guest on the show and then couldn’t help but like and get on with him.

Game would be poorer without pantomime villains at various clubs. People hated Deek and he was prone to a bit of off colour language/views….we loved him though

[Ribs1875]

SDG was never ever the problem at the club, he was always part of the solution IMO. The one man we should never turn on.

Is it also a coincidence when all the chatter appeared from BK that the heirarchy within the club were not listening to them?

I still want Ben K, Malky M and Ian G out of our club.

I am very much with you on that one. The dire start to the season can't be forgot about. Credit where credit is due, they stuck with Gray and allowed him time. I will admit I had zero faith in Gray, however he made the changes in system that suits what he has to work with.

I must admit the poor start has me nervous along with the fact there are certain players who have came good again, but were hiding at that start of season. These are things that need addressing in this transfer window.

[theonlywayisup]

He was at least part of the problem though. He had us set up wrong for the players available to him, and we were bottom of the league. He's remedied it now, but there's not point pretending he was doing a good job at the start of the season.

No, he'd admit that he got things wrong. However, had our players not made so many individual errors in many of those early games, no-one would have been criticising the team selection. He was doing an OK job with the players available to him, but was let down so many times by actions that occurred on the football pitch, including a baffling VAR decision against Dundee United.

IMO, our problem in the first few games was the lack of creativity resulting in us looking unlikely to score and/or missing the clear-cut chances when they were created. In many of the early games, we were the better team until the individual errors knocked the stuffing out of the team and the support.

Ever since Nicky Cadden started to whip in some excellent crosses and chip in with a few goals, I feel the team has looked more creative. Also, the "he's finished" Boyle has improved his fitness and is now playing at the levels we know he can, along with the "he's not interested" Youan looking more like the player we've had in previous seasons. More importantly, the team has largely stopped the individual errors that was the downfall in the early games.

SDG has been excellent in stating that collectively all at Hibernian FC got things wrong in the early games and now collectively have worked hard to turn this around. However, as good as it has been, there's still a risk that it could go back to what we saw at the start of the season if the individual errors re-appear and/or players like Cadden and Boyle are injured. It highlights the need to recruit well during what remains of the transfer window.

[tonyrougier123]

I think the change in shape forced or not certainly helped give Dave Gray wiggle room, there’s a real understanding amongst this group of what this shape does for each players game, attach that to a clear determination and real team bonding efforts and we’ve eeked out a fair run of form,with some luck when slack play might’ve still cost us helping also. for me that’s why it’s imperative we don’t drop the ball in January and still recruit wisely this month.the flat back four never suited the personnel we have in the team. The full backs are more wingbacks and the cbs were making a few mistakes along with whole back line, it’s took us a while to get here but we are now playing to our strengths based on the squad we have, not to mention this shape is a much better hibs to watch. Lot of components have us in a much better place, but let’s kick on not rest on where we now find ourselves.

[GRA]

Halliday genuinely seems like a class guy. Really likeable other than the two teams he’s played for.

Agree, he provides come brilliant analysis and you can tell he's really passionate about the game.

There is a podcast somewhere where he came across as quite gracious in defeat after the 2016 final.

[HoboHarry]

No, he'd admit that he got things wrong. However, had our players not made so many individual errors in many of those early games, no-one would have been criticising the team selection. He was doing an OK job with the players available to him, but was let down so many times by actions that occurred on the football pitch, including a baffling VAR decision against Dundee United.

IMO, our problem in the first few games was the lack of creativity resulting in us looking unlikely to score and/or missing the clear-cut chances when they were created. In many of the early games, we were the better team until the individual errors knocked the stuffing out of the team and the support.

Ever since Nicky Cadden started to whip in some excellent crosses and chip in with a few goals, I feel the team has looked more creative. Also, the "he's finished" Boyle has improved his fitness and is now playing at the levels we know he can, along with the "he's not interested" Youan looking more like the player we've had in previous seasons. More importantly, the team has largely stopped the individual errors that was the downfall in the early games.

SDG has been excellent in stating that collectively all at Hibernian FC got things wrong in the early games and now collectively have worked hard to turn this around. However, as good as it has been, there's still a risk that it could go back to what we saw at the start of the season if the individual errors re-appear and/or players like Cadden and Boyle are injured. It highlights the need to recruit well during what remains of the transfer window.
:agree::top marks

[Since452]

Maybe Malky was right and Gray was the best candidate? If we're in a good position come the end of the season he'll deserve huge credit too.

[JohnM1875]

Mental how much more relaxed and comfortable SDG looks now, well maybe not such a surprise given the change in results. He's on form in the pre-match interview! Has the place in stitches at times. Love it!!

[Donegal Hibby]

Mental how much more relaxed and comfortable SDG looks now, well maybe not such a surprise given the change in results. He's on form in the pre-match interview! Has the place in stitches at times. Love it!!

Certainly more relaxed like there’s a weight been lifted from him which is good to see …

https://youtu.be/44-Eksl7Coc?si=e1Bh0u0u-8qhU_VA

[wookie70]

Mental how much more relaxed and comfortable SDG looks now, well maybe not such a surprise given the change in results. He's on form in the pre-match interview! Has the place in stitches at times. Love it!!

I was at quite a few of the earlier press conferences and even when we were struggling SDG sense of humour was always on show. He always looked determined and confident of his own ability to me

[delaCalz]

SDG will be on the Scottish Football Social Club from 6pm tonight for anyone is interested...

https://x.com/PremSportsTV/status/1881340950959751454?t=gCFHxebHWwdY4mmz2QmT7A&s=19

[007]

SDG will be on the Scottish Football Social Club from 6pm tonight for anyone is interested...

https://x.com/PremSportsTV/status/1881340950959751454?t=gCFHxebHWwdY4mmz2QmT7A&s=19

Thanks, here's the Youtube link.

https://www.youtube.com/live/KwFPNiYScd0?si=wrs8KDHrYbTurSrL

[Unseen work]

Good and interesting interview

Hopefully some incomings soon

Cheers for sharing

[bingo70]

Good and interesting interview

Hopefully some incomings soon

Cheers for sharing

Is that what he said? Hopefully some incomings soon?

I was thinking we’d just be getting one if we were lucky.

[B.H.F.C]

Is that what he said? Hopefully some incomings soon?

I was thinking we’d just be getting one if we were lucky.

He just gave a standard answer about working hard, needing to be pro active whilst the window is open etc. Did say he expects movement before the end of the window but I didn’t get the feeling anything is imminent.

[Mcbizz1998]

Thanks, here's the Youtube link.

https://www.youtube.com/live/KwFPNiYScd0?si=wrs8KDHrYbTurSrL

Good interview that. Hutton not getting a chance to ask his question and then just leaving was pretty funny too.

[makaveli1875]

Defo out of his depth . Doesn't have a clue what he's doing

[sleeping giant]

Getting deeper.

[Hibs90]

He will be going places in his managerial career, thats for sure.

What a turnaround.

[GRA]

Moral of the story... Patience! Hiring and firing managers every few months isn't the way forward.

[GreenCastle]

Moral of the story... Patience! Hiring and firing managers every few months isn't the way forward.

Not as simple as that..

Dodgy keeper at start of season
We changed shape
Rocky form
Caddens form
Iredale
Gayle
Triantis
Newell injured..

[matty_f]

Tremendous job digging this back up. All for it. 😂

Gray has done brilliantly since that brutal start. Wins over Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen, draw with Rangers after a nightmare start.

Superb.

[Iain G]

Not as simple as that..

Dodgy keeper at start of season
We changed shape
Rocky form
Caddens form
Iredale
Gayle
Triantis
Newell injured..

Some nice words from Pat Nevin today about SDG when the going was tough, saying he could see we were improving and not far away and that we did well not to panic

[WhileTheChief..]

Moral of the story... Patience! Hiring and firing managers every few months isn't the way forward.

Yeah but then we’d still have Maloney. Or LJ. Or Montgomery.

Finding the right man then sticking with him seems like a far more sensible thing to do!

[jacomo]

Yeah but then we’d still have Maloney. Or LJ. Or Montgomery.

Finding the right man then sticking with him seems like a far more sensible thing to do!


Tbf we could have appointed Gray ahead of at least one of them.

[bingo70]

Some nice words from Pat Nevin today about SDG when the going was tough, saying he could see we were improving and not far away and that we did well not to panic

Shows the benefit of bringing Malky Mackay in.

The patience the club showed is exactly what Malky spoke about when he first arrived.

[HIBS NUTS]

I thought his tactics were spot on today, high defensive line, a press on their defenders, therefore congested midfield, absolutely brilliant.

[JohnM1875]

In contrast to the recent posts and on here, posters are wrong.

Any potential clubs scouting for a new manage on fans forums listen up, he's useless! You don't want him. Keep looking elsewhere.

[Hibs Go Bragh]

In contrast to the recent posts and on here, posters are wrong.

Any potential clubs scouting for a new manage on fans forums listen up, he's useless! You don't want him. Keep looking elsewhere.

I honestly don’t think he’d go even if was offered something else! He knows how hard his start was here and another club wouldn’t give him the time we did. I think he would show loyalty to us and stay. He’s pure Hibs…….plus we would all form a human chain around ER to physically stop him going anywhere 😂

[Chorley Hibee]

I was wrong.

That will please some on here. 😝

[Donegal Hibby]

Tbf we could have appointed Gray ahead of at least one of them.

I’m sure Gray said at one point he didn’t feel ready on a few occasions when he had to step in as caretaker . The big thing for me about Gray is when we were on a bad run a lot of the performances really weren’t that bad but there were still a fair few calling for the guys head to roll ..

I’d imagine at some point we will hit a bad run again and I just hope we all remember this and stick with our manager and show patience.

[yerauldda]

He’s learned so quickly, very impressive.

The team selection was spot on today. NMW & Miller were big calls that he got right.

I love the man.

[Northernhibee]

Genuine contender for manager of the year.

[TrinityHFC]

There were one or two of that didn’t give up on him.

[Jones28]

Maybe made the subs a bit slowly tonight, but bearing in mind the need to manage minutes and legs for I think they were spot on.

Magnificent win tonight.

[joe breezy]

Time for a change - same woeful tactics every week


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[The Spaceman]

This run is spectacular in any season, never mind where we came from for the first 1/3rd of it. What a guy - he’s turned it around and has the team playing for each other in a way we haven’t since he was our captain. Absolutely love him. Well done David Gray, we’re lucky to have you.

[green day]

I would sack him now, surely we can get Derek McInnes in?

[Kato]

Well done the OP for scanning the humble pie.

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[blackpoolhibs]

Time for a change - same woeful tactics every week


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:agree: Cannae buy a defeat.

[Paul1642]

Genuine contender for manager of the year.

Manger of the year. Biggest turnaround in my lifetime.

[HoboHarry]

If I'd started this thread I'd have deleted it by now and hired some c*** fae the FBI to track down everywhere it was seen and erase every trace of evidence of it on the planet :greengrin

[Donegal Hibby]

Thread title is pretty funny 😂

[Ozyhibby]

If I'd started this thread I'd have deleted it by now and hired some c*** fae the FBI to track down everywhere it was seen and erase every trace of evidence of it on the planet :greengrin

https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTM0OWM5ZGQ3d3N0cGdpYWI5M2xtNjAxNWVmNGtwYWN kMWJtcnYxMnM3Z3NkNmYydCZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjd D1n/R7m04yMaGWVeE/giphy.gif


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[AgentDaleCooper]

the thread title should remain as a reminder of our fickleness as football fans :wink::flag::flag::flag:

[GreenCastle]

Celtic home
Hearts away
Aberdeen home and away
Dundee Utd away
Motherwell home and away
Killie home
Ross County home
St Johnstone home

Need to beat Rangers / Dundee / St Mirren before end of the season to beat every team.

[TrinityHFC]

the thread title should remain as a reminder of our fickleness as football fans :wink::flag::flag::flag:

It’s how absolutely certain people are based on very little..

Same we had when Aberdeen had got absolutely everything about their club so right..

[Wilson]

the thread title should remain as a reminder of our fickleness as football fans :wink::flag::flag::flag:

For those of you who were fickle. I agree 👍

[Jim44]

It’s the tastiest humble pie I’ve ever eaten, but I’m not going to beat myself up for being very critical of DG in the first half of the season because we were truly rank rotten and he might very well have gone then.

[andrew_dundee]

To be fair, a lot of us (me included) wanted SDG to go, and for good reason at the time.

It was more in sorrow than in anger, but I don't blame anyone who was looking at the results and the league and worrying about how things were looking.

I think we're all very glad to have been wrong.

[Ribs1875]

David Gray done what Paul Heckinbottom, Montgomery, Jack Ross and Lee Johnson failed to do, which was swallow their pride and realised the system wasn't working.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Genuine contender for manager of the year.

At this point in time it’s probably got to be Jim Goodwin. By the end of the season though I suspect SDG will have won it. :agree:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Manger of the year. Biggest turnaround in my lifetime.

It must be, given the horrific start, when we looked totally lost. I was amongst those calling for SDG’s sacking when we were bottom of the league. Whether by good judgement or good luck, the club ignored idiots like me and stuck by him. Nobody could have foreseen such an improvement. I owe the great man a big apology. I said I would be very happy to be proved wrong; he’s doing just that.

[Centre Hawf]

I don't think anyone was wrong for wanting SDG out, especially after that night in Dundee. Some of the rhetoric about him was getting quite silly though in regards to his hiring (cheap option, failed with other managers) etc. Dave Gray was the guy I wanted but even I really doubted it was working even at the start of this unbeaten run I wasn't fully enjoying watching us play and thought the writing was on the wall still if the losses started up again, but they just never did.

I think what has finally happened is we've built a stronger team unit and installed a manager that has set the required standard to remain at the club and play for it. I look across this squad now in games and I'm absolutely certain that every player is playing for him and their teammates, which I know should be a basic requirement to be a footballer but sadly it isn't really. I'm not entirely sure the last few years that cohesion has been there in the Hibs squad beyond the usual core group that turned out for us year in year out.

The scenes of the players celebrating together when Bowie, and then especially when Hoilett's goal was given, filled with me with almost as much joy as the goals themselves did because I can tell how much they all want it now. I can't believe the change in this squad since even November to now and SDG deserves immense respect for the work he's done to turn this team around.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I don't think anyone was wrong for wanting SDG out, especially after that night in Dundee. Some of the rhetoric about him was getting quite silly though in regards to his hiring (cheap option, failed with other managers) etc. Dave Gray was the guy I wanted but even I really doubted it was working even at the start of this unbeaten run I wasn't fully enjoying watching us play and thought the writing was on the wall still if the losses started up again, but they just never did.

I think what has finally happened is we've built a stronger team unit and installed a manager that has set the required standard to remain at the club and play for it. I look across this squad now in games and I'm absolutely certain that every player is playing for him and their teammates, which I know should be a basic requirement to be a footballer but sadly it isn't really. I'm not entirely sure the last few years that cohesion has been there in the Hibs squad beyond the usual core group that turned out for us year in year out.

The scenes of the players celebrating together when Bowie, and then especially when Hoilett's goal was given, filled with me with almost as much joy as the goals themselves did because I can tell how much they all want it now. I can't believe the change in this squad since even November to now and SDG deserves immense respect for the work he's done to turn this team around.

Yes, a balanced perspective. Good post.

[TrinityHFC]

I don't think anyone was wrong for wanting SDG out, especially after that night in Dundee. Some of the rhetoric about him was getting quite silly though in regards to his hiring (cheap option, failed with other managers) etc. Dave Gray was the guy I wanted but even I really doubted it was working even at the start of this unbeaten run I wasn't fully enjoying watching us play and thought the writing was on the wall still if the losses started up again, but they just never did.

I think what has finally happened is we've built a stronger team unit and installed a manager that has set the required standard to remain at the club and play for it. I look across this squad now in games and I'm absolutely certain that every player is playing for him and their teammates, which I know should be a basic requirement to be a footballer but sadly it isn't really. I'm not entirely sure the last few years that cohesion has been there in the Hibs squad beyond the usual core group that turned out for us year in year out.

The scenes of the players celebrating together when Bowie, and then especially when Hoilett's goal was given, filled with me with almost as much joy as the goals themselves did because I can tell how much they all want it now. I can't believe the change in this squad since even November to now and SDG deserves immense respect for the work he's done to turn this team around.

So in summary people were wrong because you need to give a new manager with a new team time to build all these things.

[Wilson]

So in summary people were wrong because you need to give a new manager with a new team time to build all these things.

Not necessarily. You can argue for time and give it to the wrong man. The manager buys himself time with results and team performance. He shows something that tells you you are backing the right man. Results were woeful and few could have argued if they had done for Gray.

I saw enough. We were in games. We were taking the lead often. There was something there. I wanted (and want) Gray to succeed. Results made it borderline though.

[ChilliEater]

I don't think anyone was wrong for wanting SDG out, especially after that night in Dundee. Some of the rhetoric about him was getting quite silly though in regards to his hiring (cheap option, failed with other managers) etc. Dave Gray was the guy I wanted but even I really doubted it was working even at the start of this unbeaten run I wasn't fully enjoying watching us play and thought the writing was on the wall still if the losses started up again, but they just never did.

I think what has finally happened is we've built a stronger team unit and installed a manager that has set the required standard to remain at the club and play for it. I look across this squad now in games and I'm absolutely certain that every player is playing for him and their teammates, which I know should be a basic requirement to be a footballer but sadly it isn't really. I'm not entirely sure the last few years that cohesion has been there in the Hibs squad beyond the usual core group that turned out for us year in year out.

The scenes of the players celebrating together when Bowie, and then especially when Hoilett's goal was given, filled with me with almost as much joy as the goals themselves did because I can tell how much they all want it now. I can't believe the change in this squad since even November to now and SDG deserves immense respect for the work he's done to turn this team around.

I agree with the rest of your post, but the facts of what has happened from the Aberdeen 3-3 game surely prove that they were wrong???

[Hibernian Verse]

I can't believe everyone is taking the OP as a Hibs fan. Look at his forum posts, not seen since he posted wanting a protest.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I agree with the rest of your post, but the facts of what has happened from the Aberdeen 3-3 game surely prove that they were wrong???

Everything is easy with hindsight. At the time we were bottom of the league and struggling to score SDG didn’t seem to know how to change it. But, yes, he proved us wrong, thankfully.

[Wilson]

I agree with the rest of your post, but the facts of what has happened from the Aberdeen 3-3 game surely prove that they were wrong???

But it is the classic problem. Hindsight is 20/20. In the moment. In a results business. With hibs bottom of the league? A change could have happened and nobody would argue then that it was wrong.

[B.H.F.C]

I agree with the rest of your post, but the facts of what has happened from the Aberdeen 3-3 game surely prove that they were wrong???

I don’t think it’s as straight forward as that, although it’s all easy in hindsight of course. That Aberdeen game was obviously a turning point but it was also the result of some significant changes that were too long in coming. Would the change of shape have been made without the suspension for Obita, without the injury to Ekpiteta. We’ll obviously never know but I think we go an element of luck in how they came about. Ever since, we’ve taken advantage of that and grown and grown, the players and the manager.

I don’t think anybody walked out of Dens back in November thinking anything other than that we, and Gray, were in serious trouble. I’m glad it’s turned round, the best solution is always that whoever is already here starts getting results. I’m even more glad that it turned round with who the man in charge is.

[Donegal Hibby]

During the bad run there was enough evidence in some of the performances like our 1-0 loss at ibrox where we were the better team or our game at parkhead where their keeper is MotM which is something that doesn’t happen to often.

There were other games too we started well in which individual mistakes cost us . The club were right in appointing SDG and in sticking with him rather than sacking him and appointing Mclnnes or Docherty who some fans wanted ..

Should be a lesson for us all in giving a manager time rather than thinking a change will make everything better which isn’t always the case . We will hit a bad run again at some point and it will be interesting to see if fans remember this in how things can turnaround for the better by sticking with the manager .

[WhileTheChief..]

Not really into the humble pie thing.

Back when the thread was started, and for a few months after, the criticism was fully justified and Gray couldn’t have had any complaints if he was sacked.

He totally understood that himself and expected to be away after the St Mirren game.

Delighted with the way things are going but back then they were as bad as we’ve ever experienced.

[Centre Hawf]

I agree with the rest of your post, but the facts of what has happened from the Aberdeen 3-3 game surely prove that they were wrong???


So in summary people were wrong because you need to give a new manager with a new team time to build all these things.

I guess in some ways yes. But as others have said that's with the benefit of hindsight as well and it wasn't like we were sitting 8th or 9th struggling to kick start the season a bit. We were sitting rock bottom with 1 win from however many games and only the shining light of swapping with Hearts occasionally kept it from being a near national media level embarrassment.

People didn't want us to get rid of Montgomery last season and want quite rightly generally want managers to be given more time, now we're in the hunt for third the season after. So it was a great decision in the end too.

As others have said I think even Dave Gray would have complained if he got his jotters after Dundee or even if Rocky never equalised that night against Aberdeen.

[The Baldmans Comb]

Imagine wanting any manager of any club sacked after 12 games or 16 including the league cup but sadly that's the ridiculously small minded world that a section of the Hibs inhabit.

Sadly they will always be with us totally oblivious to the long term picture and entirely focused on a short term agenda based on bias and agenda where green shoots are totally ignored in favour of knee jerk reactions.

SDG stands heads and shoulders above their petty spite and ignorant opinions but he knows they will get him in the end as sadly they always do and the wheel continues to turn.😭😥

[TrinityHFC]

I guess in some ways yes. But as others have said that's with the benefit of hindsight as well and it wasn't like we were sitting 8th or 9th struggling to kick start the season a bit. We were sitting rock bottom with 1 win from however many games and only the shining light of swapping with Hearts occasionally kept it from being a near national media level embarrassment.

People didn't want us to get rid of Montgomery last season and want quite rightly generally want managers to be given more time, now we're in the hunt for third the season after. So it was a great decision in the end too.

As others have said I think even Dave Gray would have complained if he got his jotters after Dundee or even if Rocky never equalised that night against Aberdeen.

Nothing to with hindsight. It is about whether at the time a change is going to help in the future. Too many look at sacking the manager as punishment for results. It can’t be about that.

[HoboHarry]

Nothing to with hindsight. It is about whether at the time a change is going to help in the future. Too many look at sacking the manager as punishment for results. It can’t be about that.

Exactly, we've been down that road too many times and it got us nowhere. Man U and Sevco are on that road now.

[Wilson]

Nothing to with hindsight. It is about whether at the time a change is going to help in the future. Too many look at sacking the manager as punishment for results. It can’t be about that.

Rubbish. We couldn't keep losing. We couldn't be bottom of the league for too long. You can't look after the future by getting relegated. How much time do you give a man delivering poor results?

Knowing what we know now we were right to stick by Gray. Hindsight. We couldn't anticipate such a run as we've been on. Not even the most optimistic supporter.

[bingo70]

Imagine wanting any manager of any club sacked after 12 games or 16 including the league cup but sadly that's the ridiculously small minded world that a section of the Hibs inhabit.

Sadly they will always be with us totally oblivious to the long term picture and entirely focused on a short term agenda based on bias and agenda where green shoots are totally ignored in favour of knee jerk reactions.

SDG stands heads and shoulders above their petty spite and ignorant opinions but he knows they will get him in the end as sadly they always do and the wheel continues to turn.😭😥

Did you want Terry Butcher to get more time after 16 games?

[B.H.F.C]

Rubbish. We couldn't keep losing. We couldn't be bottom of the league for too long. You can't look after the future by getting relegated. How much time do you give a man delivering poor results?

Knowing what we know now we were right to stick by Gray. Hindsight. We couldn't anticipate such a run as we've been on. Not even the most optimistic supporter.

Liam Craig got asked at the Hibees Buzz event what his favourite goal was this season. He said it was Rocky’s against Aberdeen because it kept him in a job.

They were probably seconds away from losing their jobs. It wasn’t because folk were out to get them or whatever, it was just down to results. To have went on a run of results that, in the top flight, is as good as many have seen in their lifetime, has been absolutely incredible.

I’m so, so happy it has turned round but I don’t think anyone, truthfully, thought after that Dundee game that we just needed to give Gray and co some time and things would turn like this.

[Coco Bryce]

Liam Craig got asked at the Hibees Buzz event what his favourite goal was this season. He said it was Rocky’s against Aberdeen because it kept him in a job.

They were probably seconds away from losing their jobs. It wasn’t because folk were out to get them or whatever, it was just down to results. To have went on a run of results that, in the top flight, is as good as many have seen in their lifetime, has been absolutely incredible.

I’m so, so happy it has turned round but I don’t think anyone, truthfully, thought after that Dundee game that we just needed to give Gray and co some time and things would turn like this.

They were 1 game away from losing their jobs according to someone on the coaching staff.

[Donegal Hibby]

Frightening thought is if we had sacked Gray and his staff two of the popular choices for the job before he got it was McInnes and Docherty.

[DinkyTwo]

Whatever happens tomorrow, SDG has taken us from bottom of the table to 4th, 1 point from 3rd, beating Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and drawn with Rangers.

Montgomery, Maloney and Lee Johnson didn't have such a run between them.

I think we were right to sack all three, but ironically, patience is what has brought us here.

This run has given me the most joy of being a Hibs supporter in years.

I wrote a bunch of misty eyed pish after this, but edited to save for (hopefully) next season...

[ChilliEater]

As Trinity said - THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HINDSIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would it have been understandable if he'd been sacked after the Dundee game? - Yes, of course it would, I'm pretty sure the entire management team would agree. I'd imagine they'd have been frustrated and upset and clinging on to the notion that they could turn it around, but everyone would have understood, based on results.

Did we need someone, anyone, to turn it around and turn it around quickly as we were looking in serious relegation trouble? - yes. Yes we did.

Would it have been RIGHT to sack them? - NO, of course it ******* wouldn't!!!! The people who were able to turn it around were already in the building and in the job! Results have shown that.

To answer Wilson's question - How much time do you give a man delivering poor results? well, hopefully you've got a senior management smart enough to look beyond current form and and look at the bigger picture. If he's causing divisions between staff, has no clear plan or tactics, training seems aimless, he turns up late etc etc, then you can probably be pretty confident that he's part of the problem and not going to turn it around. If he's got the backing of his players, knows the strengths and weaknesses of his squad and tactics, has clear ideas on how to fix them, then you probably feel that they're a good bet to work things out and provide the improvement in results you're looking for and you give him more time.

We'd been rotten - with odd bursts of good form or good performances - since the last few weeks of Jack Ross's time. In Ross, Maloney, LJ, Montgomery and then Gray we'd had 5 very different managers. There was clearly a lot more to our poor performance than just the manager and had been for a long time. Nobody was turning that around quickly.

As for Bingo's point re: giving Butcher longer. I didn't want him in the first place, because I hated how his Motherwell team played, but his managerial record shows that every job he got he took his teams backwards when he first arrived. Most panicked and got rid of hem, but the ones that stuck by him - Motherwell and ICT - then bounced back and, probably, over-performed given their standing at the time. I still maintain that, had we kept him on, we'd have come straight back up. We'd have done it by filling the midfield with thugs and punting long balls to Osman Sow at centre forward in a style that would make McInnesball look like tikka-taka, but I still think we'd have done it, though few of us would have been there to watch it. It was well worth 3 seasons in the Championship for Stubbs and Lennon and the cup win and the exciting football we did see.

It's often an accusation on here thrown at the "bed wetters" by the "happy clappers", that the negative posters want us to fail so they can be proved right and the response from the negatives is always that they want to be wrong and just want a winning team. Are you sure? Ths thread looks a lot like people who said Gray should be sacked trying to claim they were right and are seriously p'd off that resuts don't look that way :confused:

Will there come a time when we're in poor form and the board have to consider making a change? Almost certainly. Will sacking them be the right thing then? Possibly, but I hope the decision is based on more than just results. It all comes down to "form is temporary but class is permanent". Was the poor run due to lack of class and now we've hit a run of form or was it just poor form and now we're showing our class? None of us know, but the way the squad look so together and invested - with a few of them probably knowing they're not going to be here after the end of the season - has me feeling really hopeful that it's the latter.

[shetlandhibee]

i personally think this thread should be closed down now, he has proven hes far from out of his depth , and i think its a tad disrespectful to SDG and the team on this great run its not :agree:

[The Modfather]

Nothing to with hindsight. It is about whether at the time a change is going to help in the future. Too many look at sacking the manager as punishment for results. It can’t be about that.

A change was needed in the lead up to the Aberdeen game. Whether that was a new manager or Gray acknowledging that to survive some fundamental flaws in 433, Bursik and Myko as a lone striker needed changed. Thankfully we got the latter. Gray got the break he needed in being forced to go 352 with Obita suspended. The fact we can now seamlessly slot in the likes Levitt & NMW and continue our run is down to Gray not the 352. We finally have a manager making the team greater than the sum of its parts.

[makaveli1875]

Definitely out of his depth . Only gave him the job because he was the cheap option.. ****ing bargain of the season 😁