F*** the positives, we need results.

[Spike Mandela]

SDG has to get results now by hook or by crook.

Polite chats on here about formatioms, improving players and positives mean nothing now.We need to start winning games immediately.

Not good enough.

[SHODAN]

At least we'll win the xG league again this season.

[we are hibs]

We've won 6 of our last 28 league games. We aren't going to start winning games regularly any time soon.

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[Joe6-2]

What positives?

[CMac1988]

What positives?

Hoilett? About the only one tbf.

[Joe6-2]

Hoilett? About the only one tbf.

True, one positive

[Ozyhibby]

5 points from 7 games. No positives from that. Manager needs to turn this round quick. He’s spent a lot more money than the teams above him.


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[ChuckNor]

Agree with the sentiment here. Poor finishing has cost us. Three excellent saves from their keeper stopped it from being 3-0 after 60 minutes. Again our goalkeeper doesn’t make saves, is beaten at his near post and that’s that. We need much better.

[Unseen work]

1 win is really concerning

[B.H.F.C]

Pretty much nothing to be positive about for me. We’re lacking all over the pitch despite signing another 50 players. I worry about Gray. I thought today he looked every bit the rookie manager.

[Hibees1973]

Who was it that started that positives thread last week on the back of a glorious failure against the Hun.

5 points out of 21.

There are no positives for anyone attending today.

[One Day Soon]

But none of this is surprising. We literally invited all of this by virtue of the appointments we made, the money we didn't spend and the fact that every decision made at Hibs is about protecting the status quo at the top of the club rather than transforming it.

[GreenCastle]

Having had a lot of hope since last week and reasonably content at half time the 2nd half was Hibs at its worst.

Missed a sitter
Sending off
Awful defending from freekick
Awful defending defending from other set pieces

Junior was only small positive but apart from that - was woeful and very frustrating - 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

[flash]

Who was it that started that positives thread last week on the back of a glorious failure against the Hun.

5 points out of 21.

There are no positives for anyone attending today.

Of which you weren't one.

[Steve20]

People are claiming that the performances last week and today were ok.

They’re not. We created actually very little last week, despite having lots of the ball in the second half. Today was poor.

If those levels of performances are seen as alright, then the standard of the club is very low and we can expect no challenge for top 4 or cups anytime in the foreseeable future.

[chrisski33]

I think the culture of the club needs looked at not just the manager. We keep not taking our chances so is it a strikers coaching issue? No point having positives from games we are losing.

[HarpOnHibee]

I think the culture of the club needs looked at not just the manager. We keep not taking our chances so is it a strikers coaching issue? No point having positives from games we are losing.

There appears to be a continuous lack of confidence. Whether it be with strikers presented with chances, defenders dealing with aerial threats in the box or goalkeepers making routine saves. This isn't an isolated issues with the current manager either. We've witnessed this under different managers, different board members and different ownership, with brief spells where this hasn't been the case.

[S4uzee]

There are no positives. The players, owner, CEO, management team etc are horrific.

We will be fighting relegation this season. We were promised to spend money yet up end up still playing Campbell and signing players like Ekpiteta, O’Hora, Cadden on long term deals.

[Real Emerald]

Maybe if we’d actually dealt with our non existent midfield over the past 8 or so transfer windows we’d start to win games. Still having Campbell in there as a number 10 and no creative players is a recipe for disaster.

[judas]

I am right behind Gray.

But the death of him, Hibs and us will be his adherence to players that are gobsmackingly Championship level at best. Josh Campbell is the prime example.

[Scorrie]

We've won 6 of our last 28 league games. We aren't going to start winning games regularly any time soon.

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That’s a shocking statistic. What a mess

[B.H.F.C]

Maybe if we’d actually dealt with our non existent midfield over the past 8 or so transfer windows we’d start to win games. Still having Campbell in there as a number 10 and no creative players is a recipe for disaster.

Campbell still playing. Harry McKirdy still coming on. Stuff like that is nothing short of a disgrace.

I was positive after last week but we had to win today. We haven’t improved any of the glaring issues that needed improved.

[Fergos]

But none of this is surprising. We literally invited all of this by virtue of the appointments we made, the money we didn't spend and the fact that every decision made at Hibs is about protecting the status quo at the top of the club rather than transforming it.

Agreed.

We all want SDG to succeed obviously but he was appointed as the Gordons knew how high he is regarded at ER and to take the pressure of their appalling footballing record across their full tenure to date. See the appointment of MM also, same deal.

[Musselbound]

Hard to argue with the OP. I felt a bit much was made about the positives last week in what was ultimately another defeat and not enough chances really created against what looks far from a great Rangers team.

Today is the type of game we really need to be winning if we are to compete for Top 6, never mind Europe. It wouldn't be so bad if this was a one off but I think that's just one win in 7 now against teams of varying quality.

[ionahibby]

Look we all know what is going to happen here, gray will eventually be sacked and malky mackay will be slotted straight in there. I suspect that is plan all along.

[Jones28]

Campbell still playing. Harry McKirdy still coming on. Stuff like that is nothing short of a disgrace.

I was positive after last week but we had to win today. We haven’t improved any of the glaring issues that needed improved.

McKirdy was never in the picture this season IMO, Bowies injury has given him an opportunity.

Myko has been pretty humpty since his return as well, 1 goal? Vente had more this time last season.

I’m not suggesting the progress we’d made over the last few games is written off on the back of one result but we need to start winning games of ****ing football.

[Jones28]

Look we all know what is going to happen here, gray will eventually be sacked and malky mackay will be slotted straight in there. I suspect that is plan all along.

The plan all along was to get Gray sacked so Malky could get the job? This is some strong conspiracy bull****.

Malky might not even want to be a manager again?

[GreenCastle]

Feel free to correct me if any of this information in wrong but just looked at our recent records..

Last 30 league games..7 wins

Last 23 home games - 8 wins..

In this time we have lost to St Mirren x2, Livingston,Hearts, Rangers, Celtic x2, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Motherwell.

Last 2 seasons - we have played 45 league games..

12 wins..
18 loses
15 draws

Last time we won 2 in a row league games..

11-11-23 - Killie
25-11-23 Dundee
3-12-23 Aberdeen

Before that it’s February 2023 when it’s

St Mirren
Killie
Livingston

Haven’t beaten a current top 6 (who finished top 6) side since Feb 2024 - Dundee

Last win over “a supposedly top 4 club”

Aberdeen 3-12-23 and 3-9-23

Last win over Celtic - 24-5-23
Last win over Hearts 15-4-23
Last win over Rangers 2018

We really are a joke and today was another missed opportunity to build momentum.

[B.H.F.C]

McKirdy was never in the picture this season IMO, Bowies injury has given him an opportunity.

Myko has been pretty humpty since his return as well, 1 goal? Vente had more this time last season.

I’m not suggesting the progress we’d made over the last few games is written off on the back of one result but we need to start winning games of ****ing football.

I know Youan has his faults but surely you bring him on ahead of McKirdy.

McKirdy should be nowhere near the team.

[Jones28]

Feel free to correct me if any of this information in wrong but just looked at our recent records..

Last 30 league games..7 wins

Last 23 home games - 8 wins..

In this time we have lost to St Mirren x2, Livingston,Hearts, Rangers, Celtic x2, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Motherwell.

Last 2 seasons - we have played 45 league games..

12 wins..
18 loses
15 draws

Last time we won 2 in a row league games..

11-11-23 - Killie
25-11-23 Dundee
3-12-23 Aberdeen

Before that it’s February 2023 when it’s

St Mirren
Killie
Livingston

Haven’t beaten a current top 6 (who finished top 6) side since Feb 2024 - Dundee

Last win over “a supposedly top 4 club”

Aberdeen 3-12-23 and 3-9-23

Last win over Celtic - 24-5-23
Last win over Hearts 15-4-23
Last win over Rangers 2018

We really are a joke and today was another missed opportunity to build momentum.

****ing hell that is absolutely dreadful.

Just rank rotten.

[Jones28]

I know Youan has his faults but surely you bring him on ahead of McKirdy.

McKirdy should be nowhere near the team.

I don’t disagree at all mate, I’m just saying SDG is pissing with the cock he’s got.

[Hibs90]

It’s pretty obvious what’s wrong at Hibs and has been for a number of years.

Yes you can look at a game individually and argue X player wasn’t good enough or the tactics were wrong, or the wrong manager was hired etc and I get that but if you look at things over a period of time it’s pretty obvious that those running the club don’t have a clue how to get a successful football team on the park.

Unfortunate circumstances at times with Ron’s passing and injuries to key players and again you could argue whether that would have made a difference or not but over a period of years the decline is there for all to see. It’s time we stepped up and made our feelings clear as a fan base. It’s only trending one way and that’s downwards. Nothing is going to change until those in charge of the club and those running it have left. It’s going to be a case of what mess they leave us in, on the pitch (relegation at some point not out of the question) and off it (last accounts were horrendous).

[Callum_62]

I don’t disagree at all mate, I’m just saying SDG is pissing with the cock he’s got.Davie Gray had a substantial say in the cock he got

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[Jones28]

Davie Gray had a substantial say in the cock he got

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He did, but what I’m saying is Bowies injury has dredged up some of the sludge we weren’t able to shift in the summer.

It’s ****ing awful luck.

[GreenCastle]

It’s pretty obvious what’s wrong at Hibs and has been for a number of years.

Yes you can look at a game individually and argue X player wasn’t good enough or the tactics were wrong, or the wrong manager was hired etc and I get that but if you look at things over a period of time it’s pretty obvious that those running the club don’t have a clue how to get a successful football team on the park.

Unfortunate circumstances at times with Ron’s passing and injuries to key players and again you could argue whether that would have made a difference or not but over a period of years the decline is there for all to see. It’s time we stepped up and made our feelings clear as a fan base. It’s only trending one way and that’s downwards. Nothing is going to change until those in charge of the club and those running it have left. It’s going to be a case of what mess they leave us in, on the pitch (relegation at some point not out of the question) and off it (last accounts were horrendous).

Fair post - think we all want it to succeed more with blind loyalty but reality is we are still a shambles with dodgy players and management / recruitment.

1 win in 7

6 goals scored
11 conceded - that’s with 3 new players at the back / spine of the team.

[Nicho87]

Genuianly the only positive was Hoillett again

34 year old on a one year deal

We are in an absolute mess

[Callum_62]

He did, but what I’m saying is Bowies injury has dredged up some of the sludge we weren’t able to shift in the summer.

It’s ****ing awful luck.Gray, - regardless of his stature can't live and die on 1 injury

So far , he's a massive disappointment

He will be lucky to last until November imo

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[Fergos]

It’s pretty obvious what’s wrong at Hibs and has been for a number of years.

Yes you can look at a game individually and argue X player wasn’t good enough or the tactics were wrong, or the wrong manager was hired etc and I get that but if you look at things over a period of time it’s pretty obvious that those running the club don’t have a clue how to get a successful football team on the park.

Unfortunate circumstances at times with Ron’s passing and injuries to key players and again you could argue whether that would have made a difference or not but over a period of years the decline is there for all to see. It’s time we stepped up and made our feelings clear as a fan base. It’s only trending one way and that’s downwards. Nothing is going to change until those in charge of the club and those running it have left. It’s going to be a case of what mess they leave us in, on the pitch (relegation at some point not out of the question) and off it (last accounts were horrendous).

Totally agree.

[JohnM1875]

Genuianly the only positive was Hoillett again

34 year old on a one year deal

We are in an absolute mess

Disagree, personally thought Kwon was excellent for the majority of the match and Marv strolled it again, appreciate that sounds daft after losing.

We should be doing all we can to get Hoilett signed up for another year

[GreenCastle]

Maybe if we’d actually dealt with our non existent midfield over the past 8 or so transfer windows we’d start to win games. Still having Campbell in there as a number 10 and no creative players is a recipe for disaster.

We also have the issue that 2 of the 3 midfielders who started today aren’t ours.

The other one isn’t good enough.

The guy we didn’t miss today Newell has a contract till 2027 somehow.

[raeburnhibs]

I don’t disagree at all mate, I’m just saying SDG is pissing with the cock he’s got.

But he could have chosen to piss with Youans cock rather than McKirdy's?

[Hibees1973]

Of which you weren't one.

Wow.

Queued up for my ticket before the game. Was a fair few in the queue at the ticket office and didn't get in until just after kick off. East stand Block 42 Row HH Seat 153. £28. Although I found a spare seat in row V, seat no 100 which was a bit lower down. Sat next to this oriental guy who turned up 20 mins late.

I predicted a 2-1 defeat today. So just out with that.

While typing this I'm not really sure I'm wasting my time replying to you Flash.

You can file your post among the other incompetent posts you have sent.

Idiot.

[judas]

Davie Gray had a substantial say in the cock he got

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

It would be interesting to see how Gray would get on, pissing with Rodgers wider and longer cock.

Or even Clements slightly shorter (but still bigger than Grays) cock.

[Callum_62]

It would be interesting to see how Gray would get on, pissing with Rodgers wider and longer cock.

Or even Clements slightly shorter (but still bigger than Grays) cock.The evidence so far isn't very good imo

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[Nicho87]

Disagree, personally thought Kwon was excellent for the majority of the match and Marv strolled it again, appreciate that sounds daft after losing.

We should be doing all we can to get Hoilett signed up for another year

To be fair your right, I like kwon gives his all. Worrying that’s coming from a loan player who seems to know what is required.

Going by the current board, expect a 3 year deal for hoillett announced Monday.

[Jones28]

But he could have chosen to piss with Youans cock rather than McKirdy's?

Based on the last couple of performances?

[Not In The Know]

Feel free to correct me if any of this information in wrong but just looked at our recent records..

Last 30 league games..7 wins

Last 23 home games - 8 wins..

In this time we have lost to St Mirren x2, Livingston,Hearts, Rangers, Celtic x2, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Motherwell.

Last 2 seasons - we have played 45 league games..

12 wins..
18 loses
15 draws

Last time we won 2 in a row league games..

11-11-23 - Killie
25-11-23 Dundee
3-12-23 Aberdeen

Before that it’s February 2023 when it’s

St Mirren
Killie
Livingston

Haven’t beaten a current top 6 (who finished top 6) side since Feb 2024 - Dundee

Last win over “a supposedly top 4 club”

Aberdeen 3-12-23 and 3-9-23

Last win over Celtic - 24-5-23
Last win over Hearts 15-4-23
Last win over Rangers 2018

We really are a joke and today was another missed opportunity to build momentum.


yup agreed. To summaries since 2019 we have to only played sunshine on leith once at Easter Rd to celebrate a significant win.

[Heisenberg]

We are 100% heading for a relegation battle based on the evidence so far.

[Trinity Hibee]

Based on the last couple of performances?

Mckirdy is a man down and a waste of a jersey. I’ve not seen a single performance from him to suggest he can impact a game.

Youan hasn’t been good and may not be interested but at least we know there is some quality there

[eastmainsmsh]

The plan all along was to get Gray sacked so Malky could get the job? This is some strong conspiracy bull****.

Malky might not even want to be a manager again?

Hopefully that never happens

[B.H.F.C]

We are 100% heading for a relegation battle based on the evidence so far.

Feels that way just now. There isn’t really any evidence, so far to suggest we won’t be in that kind of battle.

We lost to Kelty and it was almost overlooked how bad a result it was. It was one of the worst results the club has ever had IMO. We’ve followed that up with a dreadful start in the league.

Two things that were a concern to me today, other than the obvious. First was the complete lack of leadership and responsibility on and off the park when we went down to 10 men. The second was the reaction at full time. There wasn’t anything really, no real anger around the place. I think it’s because of who is in charge but it just felt like complete apathy as well and that’s not a good thing. I thought we were sleepwalking in to that result as the game went on today, no real attempt to positively change things, and I think we could easily sleepwalk in to trouble.

[Jones28]

Mckirdy is a man down and a waste of a jersey. I’ve not seen a single performance from him to suggest he can impact a game.

Youan hasn’t been good and may not be interested but at least we know there is some quality there

I don’t disagree but McKirdy was better in 10 minutes than Youan was in 45 mins against Saints.

A firing Youan is our best player, but I’d take an enthusiastic McKirdy over a Youan who so blatantly doesn’t want to be here.

[BoomtownHibees]

I don’t disagree but McKirdy was better in 10 minutes than Youan was in 45 mins against Saints.

A firing Youan is our best player, but I’d take an enthusiastic McKirdy over a Youan who so blatantly doesn’t want to be here.

In what way was he better?

[Bostonhibby]

The plan all along was to get Gray sacked so Malky could get the job? This is some strong conspiracy bull****.

Malky might not even want to be a manager again?Sadly, you may not be far off the mark.

If it happens I'll be clinging onto the view that custodians and coaches are transitory but Hibs should be enduring.

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[Bostonhibby]

****ing hell that is absolutely dreadful.

Just rank rotten.Almost every team is our bogey team but we could be Motherwell's if you stretch it a bit. Irony eh[emoji6]

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[Jones28]

In what way was he better?

He did more and looked more interested.

[BoomtownHibees]

He did more and looked more interested.

What did he do more of?

[Jones28]

What did he do more of?

Got on the ball for starters. Come on, Youan looked like he just didn’t give a ****. At least McKirdy looked like wanted to do something.

[BoomtownHibees]

Got on the ball for starters. Come on, Youan looked like he just didn’t give a ****. At least McKirdy looked like wanted to do something.

I can’t remember him getting on the ball at all. He’s hopeless. Should be nowhere near a Hibs team

[NAE NOOKIE]

We are 100% heading for a relegation battle based on the evidence so far.

This. All that matters is results ... Ours are rubbish and that's what gets you relegated We are teetering on the brink and it's only October.

[matty_f]

This. All that matters is results ... Ours are rubbish and that's what gets you relegated We are teetering on the brink and it's only October.

:agree:

I really struggled with it today. It feels regularly like the games matter more to the other teams. Even in the games we play well in, we’re never the team that scores with our only shot on goal, or hammers a team but you can bet your arse we’ll be the ones conceding from the only shot in goal or taking a hammering.

When we played Dundee after the Celtic double header, the talk going into the game was all about how it was the chance to properly start the season, yet the players came out in the first half at training pace.

It didn’t matter. We draw away at Killie, doesn’t matter. Today we get a man sent off after Cadden’s missed a sitter. Doesn’t matter. Josh Campbell gives away ridiculous free kick for their opener, it doesn’t matter.

What is it going to take to get into the players that it’s not ok to be like this every week? Last season should have been a wake up call. Results like this were the norm and we finished eighth because nobody could find it within themselves to dig out a result or a performance when it mattered.

I’m sick of it, tbh.

[GreenCastle]

:agree:

I really struggled with it today. It feels regularly like the games matter more to the other teams. Even in the games we play well in, we’re never the team that scores with our only shot on goal, or hammers a team but you can bet your arse we’ll be the ones conceding from the only shot in goal or taking a hammering.

When we played Dundee after the Celtic double header, the talk going into the game was all about how it was the chance to properly start the season, yet the players came out in the first half at training pace.

It didn’t matter. We draw away at Killie, doesn’t matter. Today we get a man sent off after Cadden’s missed a sitter. Doesn’t matter. Josh Campbell gives away ridiculous free kick for their opener, it doesn’t matter.

What is it going to take to get into the players that it’s not ok to be like this every week? Last season should have been a wake up call. Results like this were the norm and we finished eighth because nobody could find it within themselves to dig out a result or a performance when it mattered.

I’m sick of it, tbh.

You forgot we bottled it at Killie giving away a 92 min penalty.

Weak mindset and stupidity again.

Basics !!!

[HarpOnHibee]

You forgot we bottled it at Killie giving away a 92 min penalty.

Weak mindset and stupidity again.

Basics !!!

Our game management leaves much to be desired. Even when we have the upper hand in games there's no confidence in our ability to see it out.

[Alfred E Newman]

:agree:

I really struggled with it today. It feels regularly like the games matter more to the other teams. Even in the games we play well in, we’re never the team that scores with our only shot on goal, or hammers a team but you can bet your arse we’ll be the ones conceding from the only shot in goal or taking a hammering.

When we played Dundee after the Celtic double header, the talk going into the game was all about how it was the chance to properly start the season, yet the players came out in the first half at training pace.

It didn’t matter. We draw away at Killie, doesn’t matter. Today we get a man sent off after Cadden’s missed a sitter. Doesn’t matter. Josh Campbell gives away ridiculous free kick for their opener, it doesn’t matter.

What is it going to take to get into the players that it’s not ok to be like this every week? Last season should have been a wake up call. Results like this were the norm and we finished eighth because nobody could find it within themselves to dig out a result or a performance when it mattered.

I’m sick of it, tbh.
When we went down to 10 men you could more or less see the acceptance by the players that the game was gone. It happens almost every time , we have been a soft touch for years and we still are. Managers always say it’s tough to play against 10 men, unfortunately we are the exception.

[Real Emerald]

:agree:

I really struggled with it today. It feels regularly like the games matter more to the other teams. Even in the games we play well in, we’re never the team that scores with our only shot on goal, or hammers a team but you can bet your arse we’ll be the ones conceding from the only shot in goal or taking a hammering.

When we played Dundee after the Celtic double header, the talk going into the game was all about how it was the chance to properly start the season, yet the players came out in the first half at training pace.

It didn’t matter. We draw away at Killie, doesn’t matter. Today we get a man sent off after Cadden’s missed a sitter. Doesn’t matter. Josh Campbell gives away ridiculous free kick for their opener, it doesn’t matter.

What is it going to take to get into the players that it’s not ok to be like this every week? Last season should have been a wake up call. Results like this were the norm and we finished eighth because nobody could find it within themselves to dig out a result or a performance when it mattered.

I’m sick of it, tbh.

I was exactly the same as you at the game today, exasperated was the way I described it. We are trying the same slow build up play recycling the ball out to the wing and trying to cross into the box against a defence that’s had all the time in the world to get set and organised. We have no other tactic and it’s rinse and repeat every game, one paced clueless boredom. Sick of it too TBH

[B.H.F.C]

When we went down to 10 men you could more or less see the acceptance by the players that the game was gone. It happens almost every time , we have been a soft touch for years and we still are. Managers always say it’s tough to play against 10 men, unfortunately we are the exception.

When we went down to 10 men it was disgraceful. Absolutely nothing in the way of leadership on or off the park. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

I came away from the game today worried that we’ll sleep walk in to real trouble this season and really worried about David Gray. I don’t see where we win a game, we’re so lacking in crucial areas.

[Chorley Hibee]

Mckirdy is a man down and a waste of a jersey. I’ve not seen a single performance from him to suggest he can impact a game.

Youan hasn’t been good and may not be interested but at least we know there is some quality there

Who do you think Motherwell were happier to see come on?

Youan or McKirdy?

McKirdy would struggle to get a game in the Championship or League One (Scotland).

We'd have been as well going down to nine men than bringing him on.

[Not In The Know]

Mckirdy is a man down and a waste of a jersey. I’ve not seen a single performance from him to suggest he can impact a game.

Youan hasn’t been good and may not be interested but at least we know there is some quality there

yup. He’s on a fortune wages too. Total shambles by the people running this club.

[neil7908]

It's even more rage inducing when you see the Aberdeen hire a new manager with zero experience in our league, lose their best player and still have an astonishing unbeaten start to the seasons. And then a range of clubs with a third of our budget sitting miles ahead of us.

Yet it's always jam tomorrow with Hibs. We always have a plan that'll work in the long run, or cries to give x manager or player loads of patience.

I'm just sick and tired of it all. We have the resources to be one of the top sides in this leagues. Our budget is more than enough to be regularly beating teams like Killie, Dundee and Motherwell. And yet time after time we struggle.

Too many times the guys running the club haven't failed us on the park. I don't care if our revenue has grown if we are in relegation battle. If SDG goes to then the Gordon's, Kensell etc should be gone as well.

We are like a low budget Man United at the moment - despite chopping and changing players and staff a malignancy has settled in the club.

[ChuckNor]

Still stand by my opinion we played well today. Fans are hurting at a bad result but to say Gray didn’t have us set up right is fully wrong. We should’ve been three goals to the good before they scored. That’s not on Gray.

[NC1875]

Still stand by my opinion we played well today. Fans are hurting at a bad result but to say Gray didn’t have us set up right is fully wrong. We should’ve been three goals to the good before they scored. That’s not on Gray.

And if your auntie had a pair of balls….

5 points from 7 games
-5 goal difference
10th in the league

But aye, we should’ve been 3-0 up at half time 👍🏼

[CallumHibs07]

Unfortunately Gray is a yes man, will never dig the players out, too much faith in those blatantly not good enough. We'll never improve until that changes.

[Northernhibee]

Unfortunately Gray is a yes man, will never dig the players out, too much faith in those blatantly not good enough. We'll never improve until that changes.

He heavily criticised Triantis in yesterday’s post match interviews, and the defence as well.

[Broken Gnome]

:agree:

I really struggled with it today. It feels regularly like the games matter more to the other teams. Even in the games we play well in, we’re never the team that scores with our only shot on goal, or hammers a team but you can bet your arse we’ll be the ones conceding from the only shot in goal or taking a hammering.

When we played Dundee after the Celtic double header, the talk going into the game was all about how it was the chance to properly start the season, yet the players came out in the first half at training pace.

It didn’t matter. We draw away at Killie, doesn’t matter. Today we get a man sent off after Cadden’s missed a sitter. Doesn’t matter. Josh Campbell gives away ridiculous free kick for their opener, it doesn’t matter.

What is it going to take to get into the players that it’s not ok to be like this every week? Last season should have been a wake up call. Results like this were the norm and we finished eighth because nobody could find it within themselves to dig out a result or a performance when it mattered.

I’m sick of it, tbh.

I didn't mind it too much yesterday, as it had a bit more of a 90s/00s/10s feel than many games in recent years. We did slow it down too much at times, but it was a better first half than usual and felt less methodical as we were fairly direct and had several counter attacks.

I agree about the culpability, as it were, and players can routinely continue to feature prominently for us despite repeated proof they aren't good enough.

The way we caved in reminded me of that St Johnstone game when Magennis got sent off. Struck me then that I couldn't envisage many top flight teams so meekly folding when the going got rough. When Triantis went off all you could ask was that we showed a bit of spine and made it difficult, yet the game was gone within a couple of minutes.

As you say, it's the same failings over and over again. I see very little evidence beyond empty words that we want to be successful.

[MWHIBBIES]

Genuianly the only positive was Hoillett again

34 year old on a one year deal

We are in an absolute mess

Again? When did this previously happen?

[Since452]

Struggling to care as much as I once did tbh. They say it's the hope that kills you. Well under the Gordon's I don't really have any hope. Just resigned to us being ***** and sacking managers until they eventually sell the club. Sad state of affairs. Yesterday didn't even really annoy me as it once would have. There was more an an acceptance. It was inevitable.

[blackpoolhibs]

Still stand by my opinion we played well today. Fans are hurting at a bad result but to say Gray didn’t have us set up right is fully wrong. We should’ve been three goals to the good before they scored. That’s not on Gray.

We are the nearly champions.

[hibee-boys]

He heavily criticised Triantis in yesterday’s post match interviews, and the defence as well.

Triantis made a stupid error yesterday which he must surely learn from, at least he’s shown he can make a positive contribution. Gray’s stubbornness to start with Cadden and Campbell again, when neither have shown much at all over countless games shows me that Gray just doesn’t have the mentality for the job. Bringing Mckirdy on, who’s has literally done fxxx all since he joined Hibs, instead of Youan is sackable offence on its own.

[Nicho87]

To me the first two games we got well beat

Grays tactic imo appears to be keep it tight and don’t give much away

But there comes a point where the shackles have to be taken off and play at home with more intensity at the very least

Myko up front himself is not enough.

The wingers should be higher and closer, our full backs the same.

We seem to play so rigid and safe and it’s sometimes boring to watch.

[Bostonhibby]

We are the nearly champions."This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires".

New unofficial motto? I'm getting fed up of Persevering.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[erin go bragh]

To me the first two games we got well beat

Grays tactic imo appears to be keep it tight and don’t give much away

But there comes a point where the shackles have to be taken off and play at home with more intensity at the very least

Myko up front himself is not enough.

The wingers should be higher and closer, our full backs the same.

We seem to play so rigid and safe and it’s sometimes boring to watch.

He played the same safe way when interim.
Gut feeling when his name was first mentioned was no and unfortunately the gut is rarely wrong.
Board have done another Sauzee 🙈

[Spike Mandela]

Still stand by my opinion we played well today. Fans are hurting at a bad result but to say Gray didn’t have us set up right is fully wrong. We should’ve been three goals to the good before they scored. That’s not on Gray.

Really doesn’t matter. Ok an isolated defeat in amongst a run of positive results you could forgive and put down to fans hurting. That point is long passed though.

Gray needs to find ways to win, no excuses, no let’s find the positives in a bad result, no bleating about formations and injuries.

He has to find a way to win and consistently or, on the evidence of this board’s previous undertakings, he will be toast and we will be in big trouble..

[Jones28]

Just seen the highlights for the first time and yes, good goalkeeping/defending from them.

I don't think the first Motherwell goal is particularly poor from anyone, very well worked routine, Campbell is still reasonably close to his man but could be tighter, goalie could have smothered the initial ball but it was well worked.

Second goal for them is a disaster defensively, the kind of goal we never seem to score.

I don't know if the result/performance is quite worthy of the Gordons/Kensall/Seagulls out stuff that has been re-appearing.

[green day]

I don't know if the result/performance is quite worthy of the Gordons/Kensall/Seagulls out stuff that has been re-appearing.

For about the hundredth time - its not about Saturdays result/performance.

We have been awful for years now, under successive managers, under this ownership.

We are spending relative fortunes on squads, coaching teams etc and are no further forward than when we fired Jack Ross (arguably worse). Watching Hibs has become a chore, we are boring to watch, a nothing team.

There has to come a time when those who own the club accept that they cant run the football side, and it needs done professionally.

Some people might say "thats already happened, we have Malky as DoF and he is in charge".
Well, that may be true, but why do we also appoint a completely untried manager?

We might have some great hospitality lounges, but our footballing dept (which is what all of us should be interested in) is a total shambles.

[Trinity Hibee]

For about the hundredth time - its not about Saturdays result/performance.

We have been awful for years now, under successive managers, under this ownership.

We are spending relative fortunes on squads, coaching teams etc and are no further forward than when we fired Jack Ross (arguably worse). Watching Hibs has become a chore, we are boring to watch, a nothing team.

There has to come a time when those who own the club accept that they cant run the football side, and it needs done professionally.

Some people might say "thats already happened, we have Malky as DoF and he is in charge".
Well, that may be true, but why do we also appoint a completely untried manager?

We might have some great hospitality lounges, but our footballing dept (which is what all of us should be interested in) is a total shambles.

Why do people think this is a reaction to one result? Don’t get it at all.

[Jones28]

For about the hundredth time - its not about Saturdays result/performance.

We have been awful for years now, under successive managers, under this ownership.

We are spending relative fortunes on squads, coaching teams etc and are no further forward than when we fired Jack Ross (arguably worse). Watching Hibs has become a chore, we are boring to watch, a nothing team.

There has to come a time when those who own the club accept that they cant run the football side, and it needs done professionally.

Some people might say "thats already happened, we have Malky as DoF and he is in charge".
Well, that may be true, but why do we also appoint a completely untried manager?

We might have some great hospitality lounges, but our footballing dept (which is what all of us should be interested in) is a total shambles.

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?

[WestStandWillie]

When does it stop being a manager issue?

Starting to think Guardiola or Klopp would struggle with this squad.

[we are hibs]

I don't know if the result/performance is quite worthy of the Gordons/Kensall/Seagulls out stuff that has been re-appearing.


Maybe not but 6 wins in our last 28 league games certainly does.



Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Paulie Walnuts]

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?

The same points are rehashed because nothing ever changes so the same points remain relevant. We could of course all just stop discussing it, but if that happens then apathy will have really set in and it’ll be time to worry about where the club is going once the fans stop caring.

[green day]

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?

You think that our start to the season where we have only beaten the mighty St Johnstone in our 5 non Rangers/Celtic games constitutes "1 poor result"?

I dont want to sound argumentative, but you are having a laugh.

We should be steamrollering most of those teams with the resources at our disposal.

Ignoring for a second our crap start to this season, its happened so many times since the Gordons arrived that it must be obvious that the "strategy" for the footballing side is all over the place.

I dont want to see David Gray sacked, but someone needs to take Hibs by the scruff of the neck and do something.

I am not the only person frustrated, bored and increasingly disengaged with Hibs.

[Fergos]

Just seen the highlights for the first time and yes, good goalkeeping/defending from them.

I don't think the first Motherwell goal is particularly poor from anyone, very well worked routine, Campbell is still reasonably close to his man but could be tighter, goalie could have smothered the initial ball but it was well worked.

Second goal for them is a disaster defensively, the kind of goal we never seem to score.

I don't know if the result/performance is quite worthy of the Gordons/Kensall/Seagulls out stuff that has been re-appearing.

2 top 6 finishes in 5 years. One with JR, the previous regimes appointment and one with LJ when we sneaked in at the death.

Add to that a series of ridiculous signings, poor manager level appointments and a load of wasted £.

[Chorley Hibee]

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?

1 bad result??

This is what I spoke about previously when I mentioned that a portion of our support have become conditioned to this ***** and this level of expectation.

We've lost to Kelty Hearts, St Mirren and Motherwell and drawn with two crap sides in Dundee and Kilmarnock (as their league positions show).

We're absolutely crap, and there's no point trying to convince ourselves that there's going to be a huge turning point that will see us even win 3/4 games on the trot.

They don't have it in them, they're weak mentally, devoid of creativity and lack a killer instinct.

It's going to be a very, very long season.

[flash]

1 bad result??

This is what I spoke about previously when I mentioned that a portion of our support have become conditioned to this ***** and this level of expectation.

We've lost to Kelty Hearts, St Mirren and Motherwell and drawn with two crap sides in Dundee and Kilmarnock (as their league positions show).

We're absolutely crap, and there's no point trying to convince ourselves that there's going to be a huge turning point that will see us even win 3/4 games on the trot.

They don't have it in them, they're weak mentally, devoid of creativity and lack a killer instinct.

It's going to be a very, very long season.

It is on this forum.

[Jones28]

The same points are rehashed because nothing ever changes so the same points remain relevant. We could of course all just stop discussing it, but if that happens then apathy will have really set in and it’ll be time to worry about where the club is going once the fans stop caring.

Nothing has changed, but everything has if you actually look at it.

New Manager.
New Structure.
New Investment.
New Defense.
New Midfield.
New Striker.
New Winger.
New Goalie.
New DOF.
New stuff off the pitch.
New Website.
Probably new bus as well.

[Jones28]

1 bad result??

This is what I spoke about previously when I mentioned that a portion of our support have become conditioned to this ***** and this level of expectation.

We've lost to Kelty Hearts, St Mirren and Motherwell and drawn with two crap sides in Dundee and Kilmarnock (as their league positions show).

We're absolutely crap, and there's no point trying to convince ourselves that there's going to be a huge turning point that will see us even win 3/4 games on the trot.

They don't have it in them, they're weak mentally, devoid of creativity and lack a killer instinct.

It's going to be a very, very long season.

In previous 5 games, no argument Kelty result was a shocker.

[Chorley Hibee]

Nothing has changed, but everything has if you actually look at it.

New Manager.
New Structure.
New Investment.
New Defense.
New Midfield.
New Striker.
New Winger.
New Goalie.
New DOF.
New stuff off the pitch.
New Website.
Probably new bus as well.

Same **** results!

Someone, somewhere, doesn't have a ****ing clue.

I think it's safe to say that it's looking very much like the owners and our board.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

1 bad result??

This is what I spoke about previously when I mentioned that a portion of our support have become conditioned to this ***** and this level of expectation.

We've lost to Kelty Hearts, St Mirren and Motherwell and drawn with two crap sides in Dundee and Kilmarnock (as their league positions show).

We're absolutely crap, and there's no point trying to convince ourselves that there's going to be a huge turning point that will see us even win 3/4 games on the trot.

They don't have it in them, they're weak mentally, devoid of creativity and lack a killer instinct.

It's going to be a very, very long season.

I hate to agree with this, but I’ve got no other option. You’re absolutely spot on here.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Nothing has changed, but everything has if you actually look at it.

New Manager.
New Structure.
New Investment.
New Defense.
New Midfield.
New Striker.
New Winger.
New Goalie.
New DOF.
New stuff off the pitch.
New Website.
Probably new bus as well.

Sorry, when I said nothing changes, I more meant the end result. It’s all the same because the people running the club are so out of their depth when it comes to football it’s unreal, which is our reason for being.

[Jones28]

You think that our start to the season where we have only beaten the mighty St Johnstone in our 5 non Rangers/Celtic games constitutes "1 poor result"?

I dont want to sound argumentative, but you are having a laugh.

We should be steamrollering most of those teams with the resources at our disposal.

Ignoring for a second our crap start to this season, its happened so many times since the Gordons arrived that it must be obvious that the "strategy" for the footballing side is all over the place.

I dont want to see David Gray sacked, but someone needs to take Hibs by the scruff of the neck and do something.

I am not the only person frustrated, bored and increasingly disengaged with Hibs.

Previous 5 games I said.

Steamrollering teams - we have never in my time supporting Hibs done that. Even at our pomp under Lennon or Mowbray we still had it in us to chuck games.

The strategy isn't that one single strategy has been adhered to the whole time, its been chopped and changed that many times I don't even know where it is now?

Let me ask you this, we've made constant changes in the dug-out and behind the scenes: how much time does our manager get now? How much time is reasonable to allow a new manager time to bed in alongside a new DOF?

[Paulie Walnuts]

In previous 5 games, no argument Kelty result was a shocker.

Im not sure about that.

Dundee was a poor result imo. Losing a last minute equaliser away to a struggling Kilmarnock side because of Obita being an idiot made that a poor result as well. Throw in the fact that the rangers game, whilst absolutely not a poor result as such, still ultimately ended in a defeat, I’d suggest the last 5 games have been largely shocking.

And that’s obviously not including the fact we were skudded by St Mirren, had our tummy’s tickled at home by Celtic and beat by Kelty before those 5 games.

[Jones28]

Same **** results!

Someone, somewhere, doesn't have a ****ing clue.

I think it's safe to say that it's looking very much like the owners and our board.

I think Kensall, on balance, has to go.

But I'm listening to the Longbangers podcast at the moment and listening to John who's making a lot of sense with regards to Kensall in that Malky McKay is in charge of the football department, so a position Kensall has relinquished that responsibility.

[Jones28]

Sorry, when I said nothing changes, I more meant the end result. It’s all the same because the people running the club are so out of their depth when it comes to football it’s unreal, which is our reason for being.

I don't think McKay is out of his depth, hence his appointment.

The club recognised things were not working and made the change we all wanted to see in the DOF department.

[Phil MaGlass]

I predict 3 wins from our next three.

[NAE NOOKIE]

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?

If the same points are being rehashed over and over again it's because the reasons for bringing them up never seem to go away.

We have been nothing short of rubbish for 3 seasons now and the question has to be how long are folk willing to stick with going to watch a team that barely has a clue how to win a game at home, never mind away. The folk running the club have sacked manager after manager and spent what for us is a fortune, even allegedly willing to spend up to a million quid on one player in the summer.

When you continually appoint the wrong manager and spend a fortune assembling a team that can't beat Dundee or Motherwell at home, never mind challenge for a top 4 spot, then you have to ask if the folk running the club have the first clue what they are doing where it really matters ....... on the sodding pitch.

Saturday was a nutshell of what this club has become. If we had won on Saturday it would have promoted some positivity on the back of 3 games unbeaten and what was generally accepted as a good performance at Ibrox. Instead we do what we always do, get a good crowd through the door and let it down by conceding two car crash goals and a stupid red card.

If we get beaten at Tannadice and lose to a Hearts team who seem to have found some form just at the wrong time for us if their last two outings are anything to go by ( a team we have beaten just once in our last 12 ... twelve ... attempts BTW ) then I for one am at a loss to see how we can possibly turn this season around.

I hope Hibs still have that million quid in the bank, because we are so badly in need of a number 10 who can actually perform like one ... IE being a threat in the other team's half by being able to, run with the ball, pick a pass and have a goal in him too, it's bloody scary.

[Bostonhibby]

Same **** results!

Someone, somewhere, doesn't have a ****ing clue.

I think it's safe to say that it's looking very much like the owners and our board.You're right, unfortunately.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[One Day Soon]

My argument is that we cannot re-set everything back to zero every time we have a poor result.

I know it's not about Saturdays result, but we have 1 poor result (Dundee maybe is arguable a poor result too given the 2nd goal but a point is a point) in 5 games and all of sudden the tide of negativity washes back in.

I think we have made progress on the pitch, despite the result on Saturday.

All we as a fan base are doing is re-hashing the same points over and over again. We know, they know, everyone knows mistakes have been made.

What good does it do?


A significant part of the problem is that we have never set everything back to zero under this ownership. Instead there has been a series of appointments designed to deflect criticism from the two people in charge while also making sure that those two people remain in charge. We have had rookies and mates appointed and all on chunky salaries. More than anything else we need to see the football operations at Hibs being run by people with experience and genuine authority, not some kind of continuation of the status quo dressed up yet again to look like something else.

[GreenCastle]

Nothing has changed, but everything has if you actually look at it.

New Manager.
New Structure.
New Investment.
New Defense.
New Midfield.
New Striker.
New Winger.
New Goalie.
New DOF.
New stuff off the pitch.
New Website.
Probably new bus as well.

Hibs have never had an issue getting managers to take the job or signing players - it’s signing the right people.

It’s all about recruitment:

They seem to recruit good staff to work in hospitality - but the coaching staff / WyScout staff finding players or the managers / DOF choice of players have been a mixed bag of the last few seasons and that’s being nice.

The new manager isn’t getting results.

The new structure - well so far that’s no improvement as worse off in the league.

New investment - that’s a whole new thread

New defence looks worse than the last one it’s replaced. Well we still have Miller giving away goals like Ibrox or Obita giving away last minute penalties at Killie. Or centre backs giving away dodgy pass backs for goals at Celtic.

New midfield - 2 loans but Campbell still starts - basically brings down the level. After not getting a number 10 we go with a player who should at most be a squad player.

New winger is good - that’s a positive - though he missed 5 games which means we are out the cup and now miles off 3rd place Aberdeen.

New keepers - not convinced - we will be replacing him in summer and ideally in January.

New DOF - yet to be convinced

The rest is all irrelevant.

Nearly every team above us has had something to shout about in last few months..

Celtic winning titles
Rangers..Europe ?!
Motherwell off to Hampden
Dundee Utd - winning championship
St Mirren - Europe
Killie - Europe
Hearts - Europe
Aberdeen - great start to season

Dundee - Ross County - Hibs - St J probably only teams who haven’t had much to shout about. Though Dundee do seem to be doing well considering resources.

It’s hard to think of any good moments following Hibs lately - hence why the Derby is now massive for the morale of the support.

[Jones28]

Hibs have never had an issue getting managers to take the job or signing players - it’s signing the right people.

It’s all about recruitment:

They seem to recruit good staff to work in hospitality - but the coaching staff / WyScout staff finding players or the managers / DOF choice of players have been a mixed bag of the last few seasons and that’s being nice.

The new manager isn’t getting results.

The new structure - well so far that’s no improvement as worse off in the league.

New investment - that’s a whole new thread

New defence looks worse than the last one it’s replaced. Well we still have Miller giving away goals like Ibrox or Obita giving away last minute penalties at Killie. Or centre backs giving away dodgy pass backs for goals at Celtic.

New midfield - 2 loans but Campbell still starts - basically brings down the level. After not getting a number 10 we go with a player who should at most be a squad player.

New winger is good - that’s a positive - though he missed 5 games which means we are out the cup and now miles off 3rd place Aberdeen.

New keepers - not convinced - we will be replacing him in summer and ideally in January.

New DOF - yet to be convinced

The rest is all irrelevant.

Nearly every team above us has had something to shout about in last few months..

Celtic winning titles
Rangers..Europe ?!
Motherwell off to Hampden
Dundee Utd - winning championship
St Mirren - Europe
Killie - Europe
Hearts - Europe
Aberdeen - great start to season

Dundee - Ross County - Hibs - St J probably only teams who haven’t had much to shout about. Though Dundee do seem to be doing well considering resources.

It’s hard to think of any good moments following Hibs lately - hence why the Derby is now massive for the morale of the support.

Don't particularly agree or disagree with anything, the derby is a huge game now for both sides.

I had a dream a few nights ago that we beat Rangers at Easter Road and woke up thinking "when was the last time we had a proper decent result like that".

Time is the most precious commodity we have at the moment, time for the new appointees and signings to click, which I think has been coming based on the last few games.

I think things will come together for us, and there's anyone the support can find time for its SDG. He needs results, no doubt, but we need to be allowing him the space to make errors and have a few poor results. As long as there's some sort of green shoots - I believe there is but fully expect others to disagree.

[GreenCastle]

Don't particularly agree or disagree with anything, the derby is a huge game now for both sides.

I had a dream a few nights ago that we beat Rangers at Easter Road and woke up thinking "when was the last time we had a proper decent result like that".

Time is the most precious commodity we have at the moment, time for the new appointees and signings to click, which I think has been coming based on the last few games.

I think things will come together for us, and there's anyone the support can find time for its SDG. He needs results, no doubt, but we need to be allowing him the space to make errors and have a few poor results. As long as there's some sort of green shoots - I believe there is but fully expect others to disagree.

Liam Fox (who I don’t rate btw) managed to get Hearts a result in Europe.

They lost yesterday but made a game of it and supposedly played well in spells.

My point is Fox who is limited and isn’t even their full time manager has managed to get a couple decent performances out of them but only 1 win in 3.

Will be interesting to see if Hearts appoint a new manager before Derby or wait till after the Derby. A Derby loss early on in a new managers career won’t help but then maybe a new manager bounce ?!!

[Jones28]

Liam Fox (who I don’t rate btw) managed to get Hearts a result in Europe.

They lost yesterday but made a game of it and supposedly played well in spells.

My point is Fox who is limited and isn’t even their full time manager has managed to get a couple decent performances out of them but only 1 win in 3.

Will be interesting to see if Hearts appoint a new manager before Derby or wait till after the Derby. A Derby loss early on in a new managers career won’t help but then maybe a new manager bounce ?!!

Hearts were fine yesterday, Aberdeen were poor by all accounts and from what I saw of them but Hearts did the same thing as we did: shot themselves in the foot with a needless red card and conceded a late winner.

I'd turn that round and present Kettlewell as an example of a club backing a manager through an awful spell of results to get things right and are now reaping rewards for doing so. 15 games without a win, stuck with him and are now having a great start to the season. Who's to say that couldn't happen with us?

[JimBHibees]

Hearts were fine yesterday, Aberdeen were poor by all accounts and from what I saw of them but Hearts did the same thing as we did: shot themselves in the foot with a needless red card and conceded a late winner.

I'd turn that round and present Kettlewell as an example of a club backing a manager through an awful spell of results to get things right and are now reaping rewards for doing so. 15 games without a win, stuck with him and are now having a great start to the season. Who's to say that couldn't happen with us?

Absolutely

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't think McKay is out of his depth, hence his appointment.

The club recognised things were not working and made the change we all wanted to see in the DOF department.

Simply being appointed isn’t a sign of someone who’s not out their depth. We’ve had numerous managers who have been appointed who are out their depth, Ben Kensell was appointed as CEO and when it comes to football matters, has shown himself to be out his depth, Brian McDermott was appointed and our performance as a club whilst he was here suggested he was out his depth.

Mackay spent all summer targeting a guy who we never ended up getting to be our main man and our marquee signing. It was a signing so important that we were going to break our club transfer record, so not a signing you’re making just for the sake of it, but because you desperately need someone in that position. He then never had any sort of plan B. He’s then built a team around loan signings meaning we’re going to be back to square one next summer (could be a good or bad thing depending on how this season goes) and after a managerial search he managed to come up with an unqualified, inexperienced guy who was already at the club and a guy who was our goalie to be the technical director. On current, admittedly limited evidence, Mackay, much like Gray, has had a poor start.

I don’t really understand the whole ‘we’ve made a change in appointing Mackay and it’s the change we all wanted to see’ line that quite a few posters have said. I’m not seeing how his roll is that significantly different to the numerous other guys we’ve had in that sort of position, like BMc, Kean before him.

[Jones28]

Simply being appointed isn’t a sign of someone who’s not out their depth. We’ve had numerous managers who have been appointed who are out their depth, Ben Kensell was appointed as CEO and when it comes to football matters, has shown himself to be out his depth, Brian McDermott was appointed and our performance as a club whilst he was here suggested he was out his depth.

Mackay spent all summer targeting a guy who we never ended up getting to be our main man and our marquee signing. It was a signing so important that we were going to break our club transfer record, so not a signing you’re making just for the sake of it, but because you desperately need someone in that position. He then never had any sort of plan B. He’s then built a team around loan signings meaning we’re going to be back to square one next summer (could be a good or bad thing depending on how this season goes) and after a managerial search he managed to come up with an unqualified, inexperienced guy who was already at the club and a guy who was our goalie to be the technical director. On current, admittedly limited evidence, Mackay, much like Gray, has had a poor start.

I don’t really understand the whole ‘we’ve made a change in appointing Mackay and it’s the change we all wanted to see’ line that quite a few posters have said. I’m not seeing how his roll is that significantly different to the numerous other guys we’ve had in that sort of position, like BMc, Kean before him.

Kean was Academy Director, so not relevant to the first team really.
McDermott was a funny one for me, he did a really interesting interview, went quiet and left the club within a year.

McKay has been much more front facing, done more interviews and has been honest about our position. He said openly that he expects next summer to be a really big change, with major player turnover and has made an attmept - rightly or wrongly - to to some expectation management for this season.

The McCowan thing, well no one really knows other than the agents and McKay/high heid yins at Hibs, but Celtic are always, always winning that fight. IMO we might as well blame the club for the weather.

As far as we know he was coming, then he wasn't and we got shafted. It happens. Yes, agreed that we shouldn't have put all our eggs in one basket but tbh who else should we have signed? A proven player at this level who scores and creates goals as a number 10, it's not exactly a long list.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Kean was Academy Director, so not relevant to the first team really.
McDermott was a funny one for me, he did a really interesting interview, went quiet and left the club within a year.

McKay has been much more front facing, done more interviews and has been honest about our position. He said openly that he expects next summer to be a really big change, with major player turnover and has made an attmept - rightly or wrongly - to to some expectation management for this season.

The McCowan thing, well no one really knows other than the agents and McKay/high heid yins at Hibs, but Celtic are always, always winning that fight. IMO we might as well blame the club for the weather.

As far as we know he was coming, then he wasn't and we got shafted. It happens. Yes, agreed that we shouldn't have put all our eggs in one basket but tbh who else should we have signed? A proven player at this level who scores and creates goals as a number 10, it's not exactly a long list.

Just to be clear, I’m not blaming him for not getting McCowan. As you say, we had no chance when Celtic got involved.

It’s his job to have found someone as a second choice though. We’ve went from willing to spend a club record fee on a position as it was so pivotal, to not getting that guy in and not having anyone as a back up. So now we’re just woeful in an extremely important position that we deemed so important we were willing to spend around £1m on.

I personally am not convinced the Mackay appointment suggests we’ve learned anything. To me, it just appears to be someone to replace BMc and we’ve given him a slightly different title. BMc was supposed to be the board ‘addressing their failures’. He wasn’t and Mackay just looks like they’re having another go with a different guy, I don’t see it as the big change in the way we’re run that some people seem to.

[Jones28]

Just to be clear, I’m not blaming him for not getting McCowan. As you say, we had no chance when Celtic got involved.

It’s his job to have found someone as a second choice though. We’ve went from willing to spend a club record fee on a position that’s pivotal, to not getting that guy in and not having anyone as a back up. So now we’re just woeful in an extremely important position.

I agree with that to an extent, but it was so last minute and with the bids we were putting in for him late in the day who knows whwat was really going on.

When it gets to that point in the window, unless it's something that has been rumbling on for months, throwing hundreds of thousands of pounds on a last minute signing could have been a massive mistake, as clubs know you're squeezed for time. Suddenly a £200k player becomes a £600k player because you know the club bidding for him is desperate and has cash.

I can see the sense in not signing a McCowan type player at the last minute and waiting until January - hopefully!

[Jones28]

Just to be clear, I’m not blaming him for not getting McCowan. As you say, we had no chance when Celtic got involved.

It’s his job to have found someone as a second choice though. We’ve went from willing to spend a club record fee on a position as it was so pivotal, to not getting that guy in and not having anyone as a back up. So now we’re just woeful in an extremely important position that we deemed so important we were willing to spend around £1m on.

I personally am not convinced the Mackay appointment suggests we’ve learned anything. To me, it just appears to be someone to replace BMc and we’ve given him a slightly different title. BMc was supposed to be the board ‘addressing their failures’. He wasn’t and Mackay just looks like they’re having another go with a different guy, I don’t see it as the big change in the way we’re run that some people seem to.

Maybe not, but MM has been a lot more of a presence - I thought I heard BM was travelling a lot due to some health issues but maybe I've got my wires crossed on that one. Him leaving after a year would suggest that he was maybe not invested in the role as much as was required or he was indeed not at 100%.

[A Hi-Bee]

I agree with that to an extent, but it was so last minute and with the bids we were putting in for him late in the day who knows whwat was really going on.

When it gets to that point in the window, unless it's something that has been rumbling on for months, throwing hundreds of thousands of pounds on a last minute signing could have been a massive mistake, as clubs know you're squeezed for time. Suddenly a £200k player becomes a £600k player because you know the club bidding for him is desperate and has cash.

I can see the sense in not signing a McCowan type player at the last minute and waiting until January - hopefully!

I see that Marcondes has signed for Norwich, hoping for 3 promotions. always thought he could have done more than a job at Hibs with a couple more quality players around him.
As it stands the more things change the more things stay the same, we just are not very good.

[Jones28]

I see that Marcondes has signed for Norwich, hoping for 3 promotions. always thought he could have done more than a job at Hibs with a couple more quality players around him.
As it stands the more things change the more things stay the same, we just are not very good.

Marcondes fully fit with a full pre-season under his belt, 100% yes please. I did hear we were looking at him.

The Marcondes we signed showed flashes but ultimately was disappointing. It will be interesting to see what sort of game time he gets and how he gets on a Norwich.

Wages would have - and still would be - a massive stumbling block.

[easty]

Marcondes fully fit with a full pre-season under his belt, 100% yes please. I did hear we were looking at him.

The Marcondes we signed showed flashes but ultimately was disappointing. It will be interesting to see what sort of game time he gets and how he gets on a Norwich.

Wages would have - and still would be - a massive stumbling block.

Agree with all of that, but I'd still rather have the version of Marcondes that we had over what we have just now in Josh Campbell.

[Jones28]

Agree with all of that, but I'd still rather have the version of Marcondes that we had over what we have just now in Josh Campbell.

:agree: likewise.

I want Josh to be a success but he isn't showing enough outside of the League Cup groups.

[MWHIBBIES]

:agree: likewise.

I want Josh to be a success but he isn't showing enough outside of the League Cup groups.

Which was so very predictable, yet I got dogs abuse for saying it.

Josh Campbell is a nice lad, works hard, gets the odd goal, but he is very, very poor at pretty much everything else, and we should've let him go (he wanted to leave end of last season).

[Jones28]

Which was so very predictable, yet I got dogs abuse for saying it.

Josh Campbell is a nice lad, works hard, gets the odd goal, but he is very, very poor at pretty much everything else, and we should've let him go (he wanted to leave end of last season).

I didn't know that - why did he want away?

Either way he's here now and in all likelihood will be until the summer.

Our best midfield is probably Triantis, Kwon and Newall as a three. When Newall is fit again I can't see room for JC unless it's off the bench.

[BroxburnHibee]

Feel free to correct me if any of this information in wrong but just looked at our recent records..

Last 30 league games..7 wins

Last 23 home games - 8 wins..

In this time we have lost to St Mirren x2, Livingston,Hearts, Rangers, Celtic x2, St Johnstone, Aberdeen, Motherwell.

Last 2 seasons - we have played 45 league games..

12 wins..
18 loses
15 draws

Last time we won 2 in a row league games..

11-11-23 - Killie
25-11-23 Dundee
3-12-23 Aberdeen

Before that it’s February 2023 when it’s

St Mirren
Killie
Livingston

Haven’t beaten a current top 6 (who finished top 6) side since Feb 2024 - Dundee

Last win over “a supposedly top 4 club”

Aberdeen 3-12-23 and 3-9-23

Last win over Celtic - 24-5-23
Last win over Hearts 15-4-23
Last win over Rangers 2018

We really are a joke and today was another missed opportunity to build momentum.

Heard the boys talking about this post on the Longbangers podcast. I'm assuming they're all correct as no one seems to have 'fact checked' you :greengrin

They make awful reading. That stat about not winning 2 games in a row is quite frankly disgraceful!!!!

[Trinity Hibee]

Heard the boys talking about this post on the Longbangers podcast. I'm assuming they're all correct as no one seems to have 'fact checked' you :greengrin

They make awful reading. That stat about not winning 2 games in a row is quite frankly disgraceful!!!!

Grim reading and the fact it goes back so long is worrying. Does feel like we are sleep walking to another possible relegation

[ekhibee]

Is there still hardly any young players coming through? We spent a lot of money on a state of the art training facility years ago, with not many players coming through to show for it imo.

[MWHIBBIES]

I didn't know that - why did he want away?

Either way he's here now and in all likelihood will be until the summer.

Our best midfield is probably Triantis, Kwon and Newall as a three. When Newall is fit again I can't see room for JC unless it's off the bench.

Was tired of Scottish football and hibs, wanted a new challenge I was told.

[JohnM1875]

Was tired of Scottish football and hibs, wanted a new challenge I was told.

Just can't believe that. He's only 24 and been a pro for a few years. All the chat pre-season as well about loving being at Hibs and working under SDG

[MWHIBBIES]

Just can't believe that. He's only 24 and been a pro for a few years. All the chat pre-season as well about loving being at Hibs and working under SDG

Things have possibly changed and Gray convinced him, but he wanted to leave in May/June.

[JohnM1875]

Things have possibly changed and Gray convinced him, but he wanted to leave in May/June.

Fair enough.

Wonder if any of the chat about Italian teams being interested might've been a reason for wanting away. Can't see that interest being there any more.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Which was so very predictable, yet I got dogs abuse for saying it.

Josh Campbell is a nice lad, works hard, gets the odd goal, but he is very, very poor at pretty much everything else, and we should've let him go (he wanted to leave end of last season).
Bored seeing our own players getting slated - even if it is confined to the forum.

With Lewy and Paul away Josh is probably about the only one contributing to our homegrown/ scottish minutes on the park. There aren't too many others coming to mind.

I wouldn't have him in the starting XI but we have already done pretty major surgery to the squad and you can't just turf the whole lot out.

[Basildon Hibs]

1 bad result??

This is what I spoke about previously when I mentioned that a portion of our support have become conditioned to this ***** and this level of expectation.

We've lost to Kelty Hearts, St Mirren and Motherwell and drawn with two crap sides in Dundee and Kilmarnock (as their league positions show).

We're absolutely crap, and there's no point trying to convince ourselves that there's going to be a huge turning point that will see us even win 3/4 games on the trot.

They don't have it in them, they're weak mentally, devoid of creativity and lack a killer instinct.

It's going to be a very, very long season.

Absolutely bang on. 👍

[JimBHibees]

Was tired of Scottish football and hibs, wanted a new challenge I was told.

Fair chance he was tired of Hibs fans

[MWHIBBIES]

Fair chance he was tired of Hibs fans

Probably yeah. I think quite a few are tired of him. A fresh start would've been good for everyone.

[JimBHibees]

Probably yeah. I think quite a few are tired of him. A fresh start would've been good for everyone.

Probably correct

[matty_f]

Just to be clear, I’m not blaming him for not getting McCowan. As you say, we had no chance when Celtic got involved.

It’s his job to have found someone as a second choice though. We’ve went from willing to spend a club record fee on a position as it was so pivotal, to not getting that guy in and not having anyone as a back up. So now we’re just woeful in an extremely important position that we deemed so important we were willing to spend around £1m on.

I personally am not convinced the Mackay appointment suggests we’ve learned anything. To me, it just appears to be someone to replace BMc and we’ve given him a slightly different title. BMc was supposed to be the board ‘addressing their failures’. He wasn’t and Mackay just looks like they’re having another go with a different guy, I don’t see it as the big change in the way we’re run that some people seem to.

I thought the same about McCowan but I thought the explanation given for not spending that money on a second target stands up to scrutiny.

Dundee received a great fee from Celtic for him, we would have matched it as well and had personal terms agreed, so without Celtic’s interest, he’d have been here.

There wasn’t a similar player available for that money that represented the value for money that McCowan did. To get the same ability down from England, for example, would have cost more than signing from Dundee.

The recruitment process has been changed by Malky, with input from BKFC, but these changes were not in place in time to be effective for this window. Effectively we saw a mix of methods to identify players, hence the likes of Cadden (twin of Chris), Hoilett (worked with Samson), Triantis and Myko (at the club with Gray before) that evidently weren’t brought in via months of data analysis, video footage review, and eyes-on scouting.

I’m ok with that as well, recruitment was a huge issue and one I’d the biggest factors in our demise over the last few seasons. This is an area that Malky has to impact positively, the first steps have been taken there but we’ll have a better idea of how effective that is come January to an extent, and more clearly next summer.

That, to me, seems reasonable enough to make some allowances. We know McDermott was a bad appointment, it was clear from day one that he wasn’t suited to a DoF role and the decision to bring him in set us back the year it took to get Malky in to do the job properly (hopefully).

[The Modfather]

I thought the same about McCowan but I thought the explanation given for not spending that money on a second target stands up to scrutiny.

Dundee received a great fee from Celtic for him, we would have matched it as well and had personal terms agreed, so without Celtic’s interest, he’d have been here.

There wasn’t a similar player available for that money that represented the value for money that McCowan did. To get the same ability down from England, for example, would have cost more than signing from Dundee.

The recruitment process has been changed by Malky, with input from BKFC, but these changes were not in place in time to be effective for this window. Effectively we saw a mix of methods to identify players, hence the likes of Cadden (twin of Chris), Hoilett (worked with Samson), Triantis and Myko (at the club with Gray before) that evidently weren’t brought in via months of data analysis, video footage review, and eyes-on scouting.

I’m ok with that as well, recruitment was a huge issue and one I’d the biggest factors in our demise over the last few seasons. This is an area that Malky has to impact positively, the first steps have been taken there but we’ll have a better idea of how effective that is come January to an extent, and more clearly next summer.

That, to me, seems reasonable enough to make some allowances. We know McDermott was a bad appointment, it was clear from day one that he wasn’t suited to a DoF role and the decision to bring him in set us back the year it took to get Malky in to do the job properly (hopefully).

I’m not sure I agree that there weren’t similar alternatives available to McCowan. The only way I can see that being the case is if we chose to limit ourselves to only signing that type of player from Scottish football.

If at the start of the window we gave the recruitment department a task of finding a player with, drive, energy & who drags those around him up with a million pound to spend on fees, plus whatever wages go with a fee of that kind, would they likely have come back with a shortlist with only McCowan on it from the world of football and utilising the Black Knights knowledge of players? I do acknowledge that those types of players don’t grow on trees.

To me it smacks of part learning from mistakes on the likes of Vente, and part lack of condfidence in those appointed by restricting ourselves to the markets we have as you mention. Which are safer markets to shop in, but harder to find real quality that seperates us from the other 9 clubs.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I thought the same about McCowan but I thought the explanation given for not spending that money on a second target stands up to scrutiny.

Dundee received a great fee from Celtic for him, we would have matched it as well and had personal terms agreed, so without Celtic’s interest, he’d have been here.

There wasn’t a similar player available for that money that represented the value for money that McCowan did. To get the same ability down from England, for example, would have cost more than signing from Dundee.

The recruitment process has been changed by Malky, with input from BKFC, but these changes were not in place in time to be effective for this window. Effectively we saw a mix of methods to identify players, hence the likes of Cadden (twin of Chris), Hoilett (worked with Samson), Triantis and Myko (at the club with Gray before) that evidently weren’t brought in via months of data analysis, video footage review, and eyes-on scouting.

I’m ok with that as well, recruitment was a huge issue and one I’d the biggest factors in our demise over the last few seasons. This is an area that Malky has to impact positively, the first steps have been taken there but we’ll have a better idea of how effective that is come January to an extent, and more clearly next summer.

That, to me, seems reasonable enough to make some allowances. We know McDermott was a bad appointment, it was clear from day one that he wasn’t suited to a DoF role and the decision to bring him in set us back the year it took to get Malky in to do the job properly (hopefully).

Similar to Modfathers post, I find it hard to believe that McCowan was the only option in world football at that price point. For example, if a team in England are looking for a 10, or a Spanish or Italian team, I’d be very surprised if Luke Mccowan was there only option. If he was then I’d suggest we’d have heard of a hell of a lot more teams in for him than just us and Celtic.

On top of that though, we missed out on him and he’s gone for good. Even if there’s nobody that represents as good value, we still needed a number 10. We can’t just not have one because it’s not Luke McCowan. Your first choice should always be the one that represents best value at their price point. You have to accept that second choice almost always won’t represent the same value.

If this summers recruitment was all based on signings using a method of signing players we won’t be using going forward then I’d be questioning why we gave out some of the deals we did. For example, signing Nicky Cadden on a 3 year deal because he’s Chris’ brother because we weren’t prepared for the window makes zero sense.

If this summer was all about signing players to see us through because we didn’t have any data or research to go on then nobody should have been getting multi year deals. I’d suggest we also shouldn’t have been considering chucking £1m at McCowan if we essentially hadn’t done our research.

[green day]

There are lots of these relatively resource poor clubs - above us in the league for months/years now - who seems to go about their transfer business in a far slicker way.

Whatever position we are in, it's like watching the titanic turn round versus these wee clubs who seem far more agile.

[Smartie]

I actually accept the explanation that McCowan may have been "relatively" unique.

Certain factors might contribute towards him appearing to represent unusually good value - last year of contract, proven in the league in which we play, key position, good age etc.

Of course Hibs could have gone out and blown a million on any number of other midfielders but even if we had absolute confidence in our current recruitment process, every transfer represents a bit of risk. This one was maybe one where our risk / reward mindset put us in a position few other players would.

The "proven in the league in which we play" aspect is possibly the biggest tbh - of course we could have brought a "good player" in from overseas but how sure would we be that they would suit Scottish football?

So I'm certainly prepared to give Hibs the benefit of the doubt on this one.

[easty]

McCowan was a great option. I wanted him to sign.

Even if Malky/Hibs didn’t think there was a player of equivalent ability out there within our budget (which is nonsense), that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have had a list of back up options. There’s an absolute chasm in terms of ability between Luke McCowan and any option we have for that role in our team just now.

We needed a link for midfield to attack. We didn’t get the one player we went for. It’s a shambles and we’re paying the price for it.

[blackpoolhibs]

McCowan was a great option. I wanted him to sign.

Even if Malky/Hibs didn’t think there was a player of equivalent ability out there within our budget (which is nonsense), that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have had a list of back up options. There’s an absolute chasm in terms of ability between Luke McCowan and any option we have for that role in our team just now.

We needed a link for midfield to attack. We didn’t get the one player we went for. It’s a shambles and we’re paying the price for it.
:agree:

In my opinion its just excuse after excuse, for the love of god we surely cant just have one target, have we never missed out on a signing before or do we always get who we want?

[Danderhall Hibs]

Who do we think would’ve/should’ve been on the back list?

[easty]

Who do we think would’ve/should’ve been on the back list?

I’d never heard of Youan, Kamberi, Myko, Vente, Latapy, etc. There are over 100k pro footballers in the world. Luke McCowan was not the only option.

It’s not the supporters job to identify footballers, that’s the clubs job. We employ enough people in the non-players side of the club that someone must be doing it.

[superfurryhibby]

I’d never heard of Youan, Kamberi, Myko, Vente, Latapy, etc. There are over 100k pro footballers in the world. Luke McCowan was not the only option.

It’s not the supporters job to identify footballers, that’s the clubs job. We employ enough people in the non-players side of the club that someone must be doing it.

Much as I like McCowan, we should have moved on sooner.

Like you, I don't know who we might have signed instead (a committed Marcondes-better than our current options in that role ?). However, we are seeing the implications of having no creative talent in our midfield right now. Games lost or drawn that might have been won with a player capable of linking midfield to attack.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I’d never heard of Youan, Kamberi, Myko, Vente, Latapy, etc. There are over 100k pro footballers in the world. Luke McCowan was not the only option.

It’s not the supporters job to identify footballers, that’s the clubs job. We employ enough people in the non-players side of the club that someone must be doing it.

I’m not suggesting it was but I thought there might be some suggestions - the manager database usually helps. You see it all the time on here with the “we should sign…” type posts/threads.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Much as I like McCowan, we should have moved on sooner.



We didn’t know if Celtic would bid - probably hoping they didn’t but when one of their others fell through they had McCowan as back up. Why would we pull out when there was a chance we could get him.

[we are hibs]

The bizarre thing with McCowan was that Celtic officially bid about 5pm on deadline day... Hibs then made another offer (or 2). I still don't know why we did that when it was blatantly obvious once Celtic were involved that he wouldn't be coming to Hibs. Seemed a complete waste of time

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

We didn’t know if Celtic would bid - probably hoping they didn’t but when one of their others fell through they had McCowan as back up. Why would we pull out when there was a chance we could get him.

Because without setting a deadline and either moving on to other targets, or working on them in parallel, we’ve ended up not getting McCowan and another season trying to make Campbell work. With predictable results.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Because without setting a deadline and either moving on to other targets, or working on them in parallel, we’ve ended up not getting McCowan and another season trying to make Campbell work. With predictable results.

It’s not really up to us to set a deadline as the buyer. We could’ve walked away earlier I suppose but the end result would’ve been the same.

[Paulie Walnuts]

McCowan was a great option. I wanted him to sign.

Even if Malky/Hibs didn’t think there was a player of equivalent ability out there within our budget (which is nonsense), that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have had a list of back up options. There’s an absolute chasm in terms of ability between Luke McCowan and any option we have for that role in our team just now.

We needed a link for midfield to attack. We didn’t get the one player we went for. It’s a shambles and we’re paying the price for it.

Your second paragraph is it for me.

We didn’t get McCowan for £1m. He may well have been the best value player at that price point. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t have improved our squad by moving on to the second best value player at that price point or by looking for someone who offered a similar value at say the £750k or £500k price point. Instead we just binned it off and went with Campbell who we all know is nowhere near good enough.

By its nature, your first choice should always be the guy you expect to offer the best value for money. We must get knocked back all the time on our first choices and move on to guys who we accept are offering a lower value for money, so why did we not do it for this pivotal position?

[The Modfather]

It’s not really up to us to set a deadline as the buyer. We could’ve walked away earlier I suppose but the end result would’ve been the same.

I would have made our best possible offer and gave a deadline, say a week before the window closed, and then moved on to alternative targets if need be. Our approach left us playing Campbell at the start of the window and he’s still starting after the window.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Your second paragraph is it for me.

We didn’t get McCowan for £1m. He may well have been the best value player at that price point. That doesn’t mean we couldn’t have improved our squad by moving on to the second best value player at that price point or by looking for someone who offered a similar value at say the £750k or £500k price point. Instead we just binned it off and went with Campbell who we all know is nowhere near good enough.

By its nature, your first choice should always be the guy you expect to offer the best value for money. We must get knocked back all the time on our first choices and move on to guys who we accept are offering a lower value for money, so why did we not do it for this pivotal position?

I don’t disagree with this.

Just wondered who folk had thoughts on who would’ve been our 2nd and 3rd choices. The optics of signing Triantis at the same time this fell through probably didn’t help, albeit the club have said they were trying to get him all summer.

[easty]

I don’t disagree with this.

Just wondered who folk had thoughts on who would’ve been our 2nd and 3rd choices. The optics of signing Triantis at the same time this fell through probably didn’t help, albeit the club have said they were trying to get him all summer.

Luke Berry is a guy we apparently almost signed a few years ago. Good goalscoring record as a midfielder. Played Championship and Prem football. Released from Luton in the summer. Signed for Charlton on a free (along with Allan Campbell and Greg Docherty).

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don’t disagree with this.

Just wondered who folk had thoughts on who would’ve been our 2nd and 3rd choices. The optics of signing Triantis at the same time this fell through probably didn’t help, albeit the club have said they were trying to get him all summer.

I’ve no idea tbh. I expected us to make a move for Marcondes when it fell through but we don’t appear to have offered him anything.

If the club genuinely hadn’t identified anyone as a backup option, somewhere between the level of McCowan and Campbell, then that’s pretty damning as there’s a massive gap in terms of quality there, so plenty scope for identifying players.

[matty_f]

I’m not sure I agree that there weren’t similar alternatives available to McCowan. The only way I can see that being the case is if we chose to limit ourselves to only signing that type of player from Scottish football.

If at the start of the window we gave the recruitment department a task of finding a player with, drive, energy & who drags those around him up with a million pound to spend on fees, plus whatever wages go with a fee of that kind, would they likely have come back with a shortlist with only McCowan on it from the world of football and utilising the Black Knights knowledge of players? I do acknowledge that those types of players don’t grow on trees.

To me it smacks of part learning from mistakes on the likes of Vente, and part lack of condfidence in those appointed by restricting ourselves to the markets we have as you mention. Which are safer markets to shop in, but harder to find real quality that seperates us from the other 9 clubs.

They did want to limit it to Scottish or at least British football, this was the appeal of McCowan - he is proven at this level. The risk of spending a million plus is far greater going outside the league.

[superfurryhibby]

We didn’t know if Celtic would bid - probably hoping they didn’t but when one of their others fell through they had McCowan as back up. Why would we pull out when there was a chance we could get him.

From what we've been told, the saga had been going on long before Celtic's involvement. There must surely be a point in negotiations where you think, enough is enough. Is this not part of the job of people running our transfer business, using their insight and acumen to make a decent call and not leave the team devoid of an essential type of player ?

[matty_f]

Similar to Modfathers post, I find it hard to believe that McCowan was the only option in world football at that price point. For example, if a team in England are looking for a 10, or a Spanish or Italian team, I’d be very surprised if Luke Mccowan was there only option. If he was then I’d suggest we’d have heard of a hell of a lot more teams in for him than just us and Celtic.

On top of that though, we missed out on him and he’s gone for good. Even if there’s nobody that represents as good value, we still needed a number 10. We can’t just not have one because it’s not Luke McCowan. Your first choice should always be the one that represents best value at their price point. You have to accept that second choice almost always won’t represent the same value.

If this summers recruitment was all based on signings using a method of signing players we won’t be using going forward then I’d be questioning why we gave out some of the deals we did. For example, signing Nicky Cadden on a 3 year deal because he’s Chris’ brother because we weren’t prepared for the window makes zero sense.

If this summer was all about signing players to see us through because we didn’t have any data or research to go on then nobody should have been getting multi year deals. I’d suggest we also shouldn’t have been considering chucking £1m at McCowan if we essentially hadn’t done our research.

A couple of things here, it’s not the case that no research was done on players, but the way they were researched and extent of the research was not at the level to expect now.

And I absolutely agree about the contract lengths - especially when you consider the messaging from Malky about not being able to move players in contract on.

[green day]

So just to get it clear in my head, we signed a deal with Foley and his BK football club in February, a deal that - in reality - was in the pipeline for months before that.

As part of that deal, we are given a shedload of cash, and presumably access to the BK network...........if we want it?

Now, I appreciate that a lot of work was done to offload players on loan etc..........but in the summer window, we are still signing players using Hibs "tried and tested" recruitment methods and not using the BK network etc?

Its genuine Laugh out Loud stuff, really.

I mean, Hearts havent even signed the deal with Bloom yet they are utilising his software to help identify their new manager.

Hibs are a mess, any rational business would not have allowed this to happen.

[Smartie]

So just to get it clear in my head, we signed a deal with Foley and his BK football club in February, a deal that - in reality - was in the pipeline for months before that.

As part of that deal, we are given a shedload of cash, and presumably access to the BK network...........if we want it?

Now, I appreciate that a lot of work was done to offload players on loan etc..........but in the summer window, we are still signing players using Hibs "tried and tested" recruitment methods and not using the BK network etc?

Its genuine Laugh out Loud stuff, really.

I mean, Hearts havent even signed the deal with Bloom yet they are utilising his software to help identify their new manager.

Hibs are a mess, any rational business would not have allowed this to happen.

My hunch, based on zero evidence, is that the BK link up is more likely to provide January loan players than it is likely to affect the main building blocks of our team, who we should be recruiting during summer windows.

Yes, a huge chunk of our team currently consists of loans, which largely blows this theory out of the water.

[matty_f]

So just to get it clear in my head, we signed a deal with Foley and his BK football club in February, a deal that - in reality - was in the pipeline for months before that.

As part of that deal, we are given a shedload of cash, and presumably access to the BK network...........if we want it?

Now, I appreciate that a lot of work was done to offload players on loan etc..........but in the summer window, we are still signing players using Hibs "tried and tested" recruitment methods and not using the BK network etc?

Its genuine Laugh out Loud stuff, really.

I mean, Hearts havent even signed the deal with Bloom yet they are utilising his software to help identify their new manager.

Hibs are a mess, any rational business would not have allowed this to happen.

We were offered two players, Bevan who was expected to come until injury stopped it, and a guy from Lorient that we turned down because Gray wanted Triantis.

[Danderhall Hibs]

From what we've been told, the saga had been going on long before Celtic's involvement. There must surely be a point in negotiations where you think, enough is enough. Is this not part of the job of people running our transfer business, using their insight and acumen to make a decent call and not leave the team devoid of an essential type of player ?

Yeah we’d been bidding and they rejected. We had terms etc agreed with McCowan but his first choice was Celtic so was willing to wait on them, we were willing to wait on that falling through. It didn’t.

If they hadn’t bid we’d have got him, imagine if we’d walked away a week early cos we took the huff?

[easty]

Yeah we’d been bidding and they rejected. We had terms etc agreed with McCowan but his first choice was Celtic so was willing to wait on them, we were willing to wait on that falling through. It didn’t.

If they hadn’t bid we’d have got him, imagine if we’d walked away a week early cos we took the huff?

Is that how you'd describe it? I suppose I'd call it 'preparing for the season'. Maybe Celtc wouldn't have come in, and we'd missed out on getting him, but at least if we'd looked elsewhere then we'd potentially have got someone, and would be in a better position than we are now.

As good as Luke McCowan is, he's no a superstar. He's almost 27 and has never even been near the Scotland squad.

I genuinely thought we'd get him, I posted a few times that I really didn't think Celtc would come in for him...but even being that (wrongly) confident if I was in charge of recruitment at Hibs I'd have had a backup or 2 lined up.

[JohnM1875]

Is that how you'd describe it? I suppose I'd call it 'preparing for the season'. Maybe Celtc wouldn't have come in, and we'd missed out on getting him, but at least if we'd looked elsewhere then we'd potentially have got someone, and would be in a better position than we are now.

As good as Luke McCowan is, he's no a superstar. He's almost 27 and has never even been near the Scotland squad.

I genuinely thought we'd get him, I posted a few times that I really didn't think Celtc would come in for him...but even being that (wrongly) confident if I was in charge of recruitment at Hibs I'd have had a backup or 2 lined up.

I completely agree and was saying so about a week before the window closed.

They talked afterwards about it wasn't necessarily about position (pish) but the type of player, or something along those lines. Again, we should’ve had a back up for that kind of player if we didn't get McCowan.

[Paulie Walnuts]

A couple of things here, it’s not the case that no research was done on players, but the way they were researched and extent of the research was not at the level to expect now.

And I absolutely agree about the contract lengths - especially when you consider the messaging from Malky about not being able to move players in contract on.

Interesting.

Strange decision to give out multi year deals to Bowie, O’Hora, Ekpiteta, Cadden and Iredale in that case. 5 players signed on multi year deals (and in Bowie’s case, a large fee paid) based on a player identification system that it appears the club had already decided prior to them signing isn’t fit for purpose.

After all the talk of clearing the decks in summer 2025, we could now potentially be sitting here later in the season talking about summer 2026/summer 2027 and waiting to get rid of more deadwood before we can kick on.

[He's here!]

I would have made our best possible offer and gave a deadline, say a week before the window closed, and then moved on to alternative targets if need be. Our approach left us playing Campbell at the start of the window and he’s still starting after the window.

While I'm one of the (not many) folk on here who actually quite likes Campbell, what you say sums the situation up. There was already a sense we were being strung along before Celtic finally entered the picture and for us just to have kept upping the bid until the final hours of the window seemed foolhardy when we had nothing in place to fall back on. As others have said, the message from the club/Mackay that there simply wasn't a single other player out there who met our criteria is hard to swallow. As you say, drawing a line in the sand a week before the deadline would have been a more strategic approach. Firstly, it would have flushed out whether or not the player was holding off in the hope Celtic came in, and secondly it would have given us ample to time to find an alternative.

[He's here!]

Interesting.

Strange decision to give out multi year deals to Bowie, O’Hora, Ekpiteta, Cadden and Iredale in that case. 5 players signed (and in Bowie’s case, a large fee paid) based on a player identification system that it appears the club had already decided prior to them signing isn’t fit for purpose.

After all the talk of clearing the decks in summer 2026, we could now potentially be sitting here later in the season talking about summer 2026/summer 2027 and waiting to get rid of more deadwood before we can kick on.

Bewildering. I accept that a new set-up takes time to bed in, but we seem to have more bodies in and around the recruitment process that ever before and yet this new elevated level of player identification isn't being rolled out until the next transfer window?!

If any of the signings you mention fail to work out are we expected to swallow the claim that the club were lumbered with the old, ineffective system so can't be blamed for handing out all these lengthy contracts? It's this kind of stuff that has turned us into a basket case club under the Gordons.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Bewildering. I accept that a new set-up takes time to bed in, but we seem to have more bodies in and around the recruitment process that ever before and yet this new elevated level of player identification isn't being rolled out until the next transfer window?!

If any of the signings you mention fail to work out are we expected to swallow the claim that the club were lumbered with the old, ineffective system so can't be blamed for handing out all these lengthy contracts? It's this kind of stuff that has turned us into a basket case club under the Gordons.

If we look at summer 2025, I think it would be fair to say that in terms of ‘clearing the decks’ that would be aimed at Kenneh, JDH, Amos, McKirdy and probably Rocky. Losing these 5 players is being held up as a reason for a transitional season.

The problem now, is that we now have the following players, who whilst it’s early days for a few of them, could also be deemed to be needing ‘cleared off the decks’ but are contracted until at least summer 2026 - Levitt, Moriah Welsh, Iredale, Smith and 2027 - Nicky Cadden, and potentially, O’Hora and/or Ekpiteta who have both been part of a dreadful start. It’s the same sort of number again who at this point in time if you exclude O’Hora and Ekpiteta because they’re playing, aren’t really offering anything.

[matty_f]

Interesting.

Strange decision to give out multi year deals to Bowie, O’Hora, Ekpiteta, Cadden and Iredale in that case. 5 players signed on multi year deals (and in Bowie’s case, a large fee paid) based on a player identification system that it appears the club had already decided prior to them signing isn’t fit for purpose.

After all the talk of clearing the decks in summer 2025, we could now potentially be sitting here later in the season talking about summer 2026/summer 2027 and waiting to get rid of more deadwood before we can kick on.
I suppose the alternative is not signing anyone, signing everyone on one year deals and hoping they will sign on those terms, or as I suspect happened, sitting down and talking a pragmatic approach to it based on the information you have and the due diligence you can do with the time and resources you have available.

I don’t think it’s as black and white as saying what we had wasn’t fit for purpose so everything should stand still or be a sticking plaster until the better system is in, there’s an in-between course of action which I think we took, particularly on the players that had been being worked on for a while.

[The Tubs]

Interesting.

Strange decision to give out multi year deals to Bowie, O’Hora, Ekpiteta, Cadden and Iredale in that case. 5 players signed on multi year deals (and in Bowie’s case, a large fee paid) based on a player identification system that it appears the club had already decided prior to them signing isn’t fit for purpose.

After all the talk of clearing the decks in summer 2025, we could now potentially be sitting here later in the season talking about summer 2026/summer 2027 and waiting to get rid of more deadwood before we can kick on.

If you think morale and commitment to the club are important, you can't have everyone on one-year contracts.

[Paulie Walnuts]

If you think morale and commitment to the club are important, you can't have everyone on one-year contracts.

Seeing as we’ve excluded numerous contracted players from first team training I’m not sure the club are all that bothered about morale or commitment.

We also have numerous players still here on more than one year deals, so it wouldn’t have been everyone.

[green day]

If you think morale and commitment to the club are important, you can't have everyone on one-year contracts.

There are plenty clubs in this league with players on 2 year deals, I dont think anyone was suggesting 1 year contracts are sensible.

But its unarguable that Hibs have signed a fair few players on lengthy, costly deals over the last few years.

[superfurryhibby]

Is that how you'd describe it? I suppose I'd call it 'preparing for the season'. Maybe Celtc wouldn't have come in, and we'd missed out on getting him, but at least if we'd looked elsewhere then we'd potentially have got someone, and would be in a better position than we are now.

As good as Luke McCowan is, he's no a superstar. He's almost 27 and has never even been near the Scotland squad.

I genuinely thought we'd get him, I posted a few times that I really didn't think Celtc would come in for him...but even being that (wrongly) confident if I was in charge of recruitment at Hibs I'd have had a backup or 2 lined up.

Like you , I doubted Celtic were interested and thought he was bound for Hibs. The length of the negotiations increased that belief. He was ready to sign, Dundee weren't having it. That makes the lack of plan B all the more bizarre.

As you say, decent SPFL player, he would have been a good signing for Hibs but strange how we didn't move on once we were knocked back for the third time or whatever it was.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Is that how you'd describe it? I suppose I'd call it 'preparing for the season'. Maybe Celtc wouldn't have come in, and we'd missed out on getting him, but at least if we'd looked elsewhere then we'd potentially have got someone, and would be in a better position than we are now.

As good as Luke McCowan is, he's no a superstar. He's almost 27 and has never even been near the Scotland squad.

I genuinely thought we'd get him, I posted a few times that I really didn't think Celtc would come in for him...but even being that (wrongly) confident if I was in charge of recruitment at Hibs I'd have had a backup or 2 lined up.

I’d definitely call walking away from a deal like that “taking the huff”. That’s not to say they couldn’t have been looking for a 2nd or 3rd choice while leaving the deal for 1st choice on the table.

[Spike Mandela]

It's getting critical now for the David Gray reign.

No matter how we do it we simply have to win. Don't care if it's deserved, flukey or a pure miracle we simply need to get the result over the line.

Every failure to win now is a potentisl sacking and losing going into an international break has been the timing in the past.

For SDG the St Mirren game , rightly or wrongly, is now must win imo.

[Keith_M]

It's getting critical now for the David Gray reign.

No matter how we do it we simply have to win. Don't care if it's deserved, flukey or a pure miracle we simply need to get the result over the line.

Every failure to win now is a potentisl sacking and losing going into an international break has been the timing in the past.

For SDG the St Mirren game , rightly or wrongly, is now must win imo.


Having watched us collapse so badly in the first game in Paisley, I'm afraid I've got little confidence we're going to get a win at the weekend.

TBH, I think a defeat is the most likely option.

[Smartie]

Having watched us collapse so badly in the first game in Paisley, I'm afraid I've got little confidence we're going to get a win at the weekend.

TBH, I think a defeat is the most likely option.

Depends on how many of their players get arrested and sacked between now and the weekend.

They've got some "shooting themselves in the foot" problems of their own.

[Keith_M]

Depends on how many of their players get arrested and sacked between now and the weekend.

They've got some "shooting themselves in the foot" problems of their own.


Fingers crossed a navy 'Press Gang' appears at one of their training sessions.

[Hibernia&Alba]

1 win is really concerning

It was reallyconcerning when you said this a month ago; it’s now critical. I remain confident we will be fine, but one league win into November is unacceptable. We have to start winning home games and put an end to conceding so many late goals. St Mirren is a huge match.

[WestStandWillie]

Having watched us collapse so badly in the first game in Paisley, I'm afraid I've got little confidence we're going to get a win at the weekend.

TBH, I think a defeat is the most likely option.

I honestly think we'll beat St Mirren. Won't be pretty but i'll say 2-1

[Cooshed Kid]

Fingers crossed a navy 'Press Gang' appears at one of their training sessions.

Sadly, mate, the ship on our badge represents the port of Leith and not an actual navy. We could start a Gofundme to establish one but I doubt it would be ready in time. But what the Hell, it's probably still our best chance of 3 points.

[erin go bragh]

Having watched us collapse so badly in the first game in Paisley, I'm afraid I've got little confidence we're going to get a win at the weekend.

TBH, I think a defeat is the most likely option.

Nah, St Mirren collapsed against Hearts and was it not for the ludicrous VAR decision against us, we would have had a deserved win against Utd.

[Unseen work]

St Mirren just always seem to do well against us imo, be a very tough game

[Donegal Hibby]

Having watched us collapse so badly in the first game in Paisley, I'm afraid I've got little confidence we're going to get a win at the weekend.

TBH, I think a defeat is the most likely option.

We did collapse in that game alright though I’m trying to stay positive in we didn’t have kwon and Triantis playing in that one who hopefully will had a bit of strength/steel against their midfield that I thinks quite big and strong.. plus we are at home too and I thought we played ok and unfortunate not to win our last home game …

Probably not lifted your confidence to much but at least I tried Keith :thumbsup: